Overcome Your Trauma With Happiness w/ Karen Guggenheim

Summary

The Psychology Podcast — Overcome Your Trauma With Happiness w/ Karen Guggenheim

Date: December 19, 2024
Host: Scott Barry Kaufman
Guest: Karen Guggenheim
Podcast: The Psychology Podcast by iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

In this thought-provoking episode, Scott Barry Kaufman interviews Karen Guggenheim, founder of the World Happiness Summit, on the power of happiness to help overcome trauma. Drawing from her experience of sudden, devastating loss, Guggenheim shares how she rebuilt her life by embracing positive psychology, cultivating daily well-being practices, and transforming pain into purpose. The conversation explores the scientific and practical facets of happiness—including movement, relationships, forgiveness, meaning, and spirituality—and offers concrete advice for listeners facing adversity.

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1. Karen Guggenheim’s Story: Trauma as a Catalyst for Pursuing Happiness

• Personal Background & Identity Shift

  • Karen describes herself as a visionary, catalyst, and storyteller, roles that have shifted profoundly following her husband's sudden death 11 years ago ([03:50–04:48]).
  • “At the core, I think who I am is definitely, I’m a mom, I’m a friend, I’m a daughter… I feel like I’m a catalyst. I’ve taken pain and tried to do something that is helpful and beneficial and good, and that’s who I am.” – Karen ([04:40])

• The Impact of Loss

  • Karen’s husband, whom she’d been with for half her life, died suddenly of the flu, a loss that left her “shut off to the world,” but she chose to “become an active participant” in life to care for her children ([05:04–06:30]).
  • Her drive for happiness started as a survival mechanism: “I decided to live. And that meant that I was going to be an active participant in my life. And…my purpose was going to be happiness.” – Karen ([06:15])

2. Defining Happiness and Trauma

• What Is Happiness?

  • Karen’s definition, shaped through conversations with scholars like Robert Biswas-Diener and Richard Layard:
    • Happiness has both cognitive and emotional components; it involves positive emotions and a sense of meaning and purpose but should not harm oneself or others ([09:52–10:25]).
  • “The trend is towards more positive emotion. Understanding…totality of human experience is going to bring you to those low moments, but…you don’t go as low or stay there as long…” – Karen ([10:55])

• Rethinking Trauma

  • Karen emphasizes trauma’s subjectivity and magnitude:
    • “You can’t define trauma in a way because what is traumatic to you may not be to me.” ([12:25])
    • She recounts the details of her husband’s death, describing the “hyper-reality” and how that experience shattered her foundation ([13:13]).
  • “When you’ve seen death, you understand what death is…calling my kids and telling them their father had died…that’s real. That’s trauma.” – Karen ([13:49])

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3. From Pain to Post-Traumatic Growth

• Embracing Pain as a Pathway to Growth

  • Karen chose to “embrace the pain” rather than avoid or numb it as part of the healing process ([07:20]).
  • Letting go of pain doesn’t mean letting go of love: “When you're willing to let go of the pain… the love has grown.” ([15:55])

• Resilience, Grit, and Humor

  • Growing up in Nicaragua, Karen observed that people could find “joy in the midst of people who [were] really, really poor,” highlighting resilience and culture’s role in happiness ([17:20]).
  • She and Scott note the value of humor—especially absurdist humor—as a powerful tool for coping and healing ([17:55–18:06]).

• Neuroplasticity and Becoming Happy Again

  • Karen describes fundamentally rewiring her brain to choose joy and purpose, moving from a disposition that “was not naturally joyful” to “accidentally…becoming happy again” ([18:35–20:18]).
  • “I wasn’t a glass-half-full person… I used those strengths…analytical… commitment… building a ‘to be’ list. What do you want to be today?” – Karen ([18:45–19:44])

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4. Practical Strategies for Overcoming Trauma and Cultivating Happiness

• Small Rituals and Behavioral Activation

  • Emphasizes copying happy people: “I started copying what happy people do. They look engaged in life…creative…have energy.” ([26:03])
  • Committing to rituals—morning reading, journaling, meditation, walks—as “hacks into the spiraling” of anxiety and sadness ([33:59–34:36]).
  • “I wore the ‘I am happiness’ T-shirt…not because I was happy, but this is where I’d like to be.” ([24:57])

• Movement and Breathing

  • Drawing from her yoga background, Karen describes breathing as an “anchor” during moments of extreme distress:
    • “I went into conscious breathing…because I could have easily fainted. But I went, ‘What do I control in this situation? My breath.’” ([31:16])
  • Movement – both physical and mental (“don’t get stuck”)—supports resilience and maintains well-being ([32:53]).
  • Shoutout to yoga instructor Veronica Vidal ([33:11]).

• Allowing Joy

  • Permission to laugh and savor positive moments—even amidst grief—builds the foundation for further healing:
    • “That was like the snowballing effect of what other things were to come that I said yes to because I allowed myself to feel all my feelings.” ([27:58])

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5. Meaning, Purpose, and Mindful Living

• Meaning as an Active Pursuit

  • “I was sitting on the bus bench waiting for the happiness bus to come…when he died, that park bench blew up. I had to go and be active in finding the purpose…” ([35:09])

• Micro-Actions and Savoring for Their Own Sake

  • Recommends listeners try “a little tiny thing”—a short walk, offering someone else help on principle, or savoring just for its own sake ([36:15], [39:17]).
  • “Maslow called them the be values…values in and of themselves. We don’t try to get anything else other than those things are ends in themselves.” – Scott ([39:17])

• Making Room for Joy

  • “At the end of the day, you have to have this conversation with yourself—how do you want to mostly feel in your life?” ([39:46])
  • Karen underscores the importance of time, repetition, and self-reflection to determine which rituals truly support well-being ([39:46–41:08]).

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6. The World Happiness Summit & Spreading Happiness

• About the Summit

  • Founded in 2016 by Karen; first summit in 2017.
  • Brings together scientists, practitioners, and the public to engage in evidence-based happiness and well-being practices ([41:11–43:22]).
  • “It’s the most amazing event…brings together world’s leading experts in the science of happiness and well-being with a global audience…tools for a happier life.” ([41:11])
  • U.S. Surgeon General Vivek Murthy and economist Lord Richard Layard among past participants ([42:09]).

• Global Impact

  • Initiatives for refugees in Ukraine, free online programs, and expansion into women-centered well-being efforts ([49:36–52:00]).

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7. Relationships, Love, and Forgiveness

• Essentials of Happy Relationships

  • “It takes awareness, decision making…relationship is a decision to focus on what’s working well…Through a constructive lens.” ([44:28–45:24])
  • “Love is the most amazing thing…impersonal love, romantic love, filial love, parent love, caregiver love…significance—and largely you feel that with people.” ([45:25])

• The Power of Forgiveness

  • Forgiveness is “the hardest thing in the happiness study…But it’s such an important thing if you want to be happier.” ([47:01])
  • Forgiveness isn’t about excusing wrongdoing but freeing oneself:
    • “If you attach to unforgiveness and bitterness, it’s taking more away from me…energy that I can invest in my children, myself, my business. My creativity would go down…” ([48:26])
  • Inspired by Fred Luskin’s work on forgiveness—a recommended resource ([47:01]).

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8. Spirituality, Synergy, and Final Messages

• Enhanced Spirituality & Interconnectedness

  • Karen describes spirituality as “the importance of all of us being okay together…we are more alike than not, even though we have all these differences” ([53:47–54:51]).
  • Draws on a sense of being “held” in moments of crisis and understanding our shared humanity.

• Synergy Over Zero-Sum Games

  • Asserts that collective happiness is mutually reinforcing and should not be seen as a zero-sum game but rather as creating “win-win scenarios” (per economist Layard, referenced at [53:33]).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “When you let go of the pain…the love has grown.” – Karen ([15:55])
• “My work now is a different kind of storytelling. I’m storytelling happiness.” – Karen ([08:03])
• “You can construct your happiness…practicing these habits, you don’t go as low or stay there as long.” – Karen ([10:54])
• “The first step was to feel that pain.” – Karen ([07:20])
• “We have a ‘to be’ list…You get to control that.” – Karen ([19:44])
• “Happiness is love…you feel that with people.” – Karen ([45:25])
• “Forgiveness…fertile ground for your happiness to thrive…just having a willingness is the first step.” – Karen ([47:01–48:26])

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Key Segments & Timestamps

• Karen’s Background & Identity: [03:50–04:48]
• Origin of Happiness Focus: [04:55–07:20]
• Defining Happiness & Trauma: [09:52–13:49]
• Embracing Pain & Growth: [15:45–17:04]
• Resilience and Humor: [17:20–18:06]
• Rewiring for Happiness: [18:35–19:44]
• Small Steps & Behavioral Rituals: [24:57–27:58]
• Breathing & Movement for Healing: [31:16–33:21]
• Finding and Creating Meaning: [35:09–36:14]
• Savoring & Being: [39:17–40:48]
• The World Happiness Summit: [41:11–43:22]
• Building and Maintaining Relationships: [44:28–45:25]
• Love and Forgiveness: [45:25–49:16]
• Global Happiness Initiatives: [49:34–52:00]
• Spirituality & Interconnectedness: [53:33–54:51]

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Final Takeaway:
Karen Guggenheim shows that happiness is not just a fleeting emotion but a collection of choices, habits, and mindsets—accessible even after trauma. While adversity is inevitable, reclaiming joy and meaning is possible through conscious practice, embracing difficult emotions, focusing on connection and forgiveness, and pursuing the greater good for oneself and others.

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For listeners seeking transformation:

• Allow yourself to feel your feelings—pain and joy alike.
• Copy the behaviors of engaged, happy people.
• Build daily rituals (walking, journaling, breathing).
• Invest in relationships and forgiveness.
• Seek meaning actively, not passively.
• Remember: “The trend is toward more positive emotion—not avoiding the lows, but not staying there.”

Transcript

[Karen Guggenheim]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Karen Guggenheim]

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[Podcast Host]

Welcome to the Psychology Podcast Today. It's great to have Karen Guggenheim on the show. Karen is a pioneer in the global happiness movement, having created the World Happiness Summit. She is also an author and speaker who inspires people about how to grow post trauma and Rebuild a life focused on meaning, purpose, and happiness. In this episode, we discuss her new book, cultivating Overcome Trauma and Positively Transform youm Life. Is it possible to overcome pain by learning to be happy? This is the question Karen Guggenheim asked herself after the sudden death of her husband in 2013. In this episode, we talk about her own personal journey and also how happiness can be learned through small, daily changes that we can all bring more compassion and positively into our days to feel better about ourselves and others and. And to deal with adversity. So, without further ado, I bring you Karen Guggenheim. Karen Guggenheim, it is so amazing to have you on the psychology podcast.

[Karen Guggenheim]

I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I wanted you on the show for a long time.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Thank you. Yeah, I definitely wanted to be here, and I flew all the way to New York to be here with you.

[Podcast Host]

Incredible. So honored. So tell me, like, who is Karen Guggenheim? You know, how would you describe yourself?

[Karen Guggenheim]

Well, I was waiting for you to.

[Podcast Host]

Tell me that you want others to define your identity.

[Karen Guggenheim]

No, no, absolutely not. But I feel like it's. I have, of course, my identity, but in the last 11 years, it's. It's really changed some of it through my willful action and then some just because of the events that happen in my life. So my identity has shifted a little bit from, you know, wife and to. To widow, for example. So that was a shift in identity. But at the core, I think who I am is definitely, I'm a mom, I'm a friend, I'm a daughter, I'm a sister. I think if I can say I'm a visionary, I feel like I'm a catalyst as well. So I've taken pain and tried to do something that is helpful and beneficial and good, and that's who I am.

[Podcast Host]

Amazing. At what point in the story of your life did you get interested in happiness?

[Karen Guggenheim]

After my life broke.

[Podcast Host]

When was that?

[Karen Guggenheim]

So about. So 11 years ago, my husband died suddenly from the flu.

[Podcast Host]

And.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Yeah. And I was married to him half my life, literally. And so, so much of me was tied to this relationship and to this person because we had a really good, strong marriage and friendship. We were very, very good friends. And he really got me, and I got him. And so it was a very. It was a very welcoming relationship and a relationship of belonging and, you know, romance, whatever. But the most important part, it was that I could be totally myself with this person and not feel judged and just feel home. And when that ended, my first inclination was to shut off to the World, make the room really cold, get into my bed, put down the blinders and just lay there, right? And then I remembered I had children. And so I knew that I had to show up for them. And so I decided to live. And that meant that I was going to become an active participant in my life. And to me, that meant that my purpose was going to be happiness and I was going to get to happiness. And I didn't know how. I didn't know definitely about the scientific definition of happiness or well being. I just intuitively knew that for me, survival meant that I had to, like, overshoot it. It had to be so great and so wonderful that I'd want to live in that life. And the first step I knew to go into that life was to feel the pain. Because when you are in shock or in loss, there's shock first. So the pain is not immediate. And there's kind of like that decision of, am I going to avoid it? Am I going to use any kind of tricks and to get away from it? But since I knew that I wanted to go to happiness, of course I've realized since then, it's inside. You don't go out, you go in. But the first step was to feel that pain.

[Podcast Host]

Yes.

[Karen Guggenheim]

And so I embraced the pain. I didn't wallow in it, but I embraced it. And four months after he died, I was getting an MBA at Georgetown University because I knew that I had to retrain, you know, my career.

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And.

[Karen Guggenheim]

And so. And I wanted to be with people. It was very important for me to be with. I didn't want to be with people, but I knew that where, for where I was going, I needed to see people. So I began to travel every other weekend and to Washington. And so accidentally, I became happy again.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. What were you. What was your job before? 11 years ago?

[Karen Guggenheim]

So international crisis management communicator. I was a former journalist, so I've always been one of the I ams. Who am I? My identity. I'm a storyteller. So I've been a storyteller all my life. And so in a way, my work now is a different kind of storytelling. I'm storytelling happiness.

[Podcast Host]

Where were you born?

[Karen Guggenheim]

Nicaragua. I was born in Managua, Nicaragua.

[Podcast Host]

I like the way you said that.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. And you were. When did you come to America?

[Karen Guggenheim]

Well, the first. I always came, you know, back and forth because my mom was actually born in la, my father's German, so we are an international family.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, okay.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Yeah. But to live really was when I think it was it was seventh grade, maybe. Yeah. Wow.

[Podcast Host]

So you've had quite an interesting life so far.

[Karen Guggenheim]

It's been interesting.

[Podcast Host]

It's been a journey.

[Karen Guggenheim]

It's been a journey. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

And you've kind of. And where you're at now is on happiness. Why do you think happiness is so important compared to other things you could have focused on like achievement or even self actualization? Why happiness?

[Karen Guggenheim]

Because happiness is something that you feel in your gut. Right. And so I believe that when you narrow it down, we do. We do things because we want to be happier, because we want others to be happy that we care about. Right. And so a self actualization and self awareness and all these other things I think are components for us to become happier. Right. And so I. I just believe that happiness is incredibly important when we define it in the correct way. Right. That it's not just pleasure.

[Podcast Host]

Define it for me.

[Karen Guggenheim]

So, you know, it's funny because my definition largely came from a conversation with Robert Biswas Diener.

[Podcast Host]

I love him.

[Karen Guggenheim]

He's wonderful.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, he's one of my mentors.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Yeah, he's great. He's just so wonderful. And he said happiness has a cognitive component and an emotional component and it's universal that it feels good. The other thing that I got from Richard Lyard is that the happiness shouldn't hurt other people. Right. Your pursuit of your happiness shouldn't be.

[Podcast Host]

I really like that point.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Yes. Which is important. Right.

[Podcast Host]

Or even yourself.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Exactly. Not to hurt others or yourself. And. And then what I love the most though is the cognitive component. Right. And that's where I guess achievement and purpose and meaning, significance, mindfulness, and then the ways of being, of being kind and compassionate and being altruistic. And all of these things are the ones, the components of happiness and relationships in particular that you can do something about. And that way you can construct your happiness in a way because as you do that, then you're hedging for more moments of positive emotion. So it's not that it's linear positive emotion, but emotion. But it's the trend towards. So for me, happiness is that. That line, that trend that is towards more positive emotion. Understanding that you know the totality of human experience is going to bring you to those low moments. But perhaps when you learn these frameworks, you don't go as slow as you would have or stay there as long as you would have if you wouldn't be practicing these habits.

[Podcast Host]

I want to just say the name of your book and I'll show it for those looking as well. Cultivating happiness, Overcome Trauma and positively transform your life. I think maybe some people would not expect that subtitle right after that title. And so it's surprising and it's interesting. I want to double click on the word trauma for a second. I feel like the word trauma is overused these days. Everything is now trauma, like back pain is like, okay, that's trauma. Or if someone says you didn't get.

[Karen Guggenheim]

What you wanted, it's a trauma.

[Podcast Host]

Yes. If someone doesn't or you don't agree, even you don't agree with someone politically or whatever, it's like, don't traumatize me by telling me your beliefs that are different than mine. How do you define trauma? I asked you to define happiness. These are very weighty questions. Now. Can you define trauma?

[Karen Guggenheim]

I don't think I can. I can define my experience with it. And I have come to realize that answer that you can't define loss. You can't define trauma in a way because what is traumatic to you may not be to me. Right. And so what I can say with my experience in trauma is to have an experience which Shakespeare. The foundation maybe of your life, of your identity, of your future. I. I feel that, you know, when I was in that room and my husband was dying, because I was there when. When he was dying, you know, it was like code. It's code blue. It wasn't code red. I was expecting code red. It's really code blue. And you have all the doctors working on him and all that stuff. And the hyper reality of the moment, I never understood, you know, like, this is another thing. It's life or death that you're here. It's life or death. If you do that, when you've seen death, you understand what death is. And when we talk about life or death, it's not that. You know, and I was guilty of doing that too. Like, it's not. When you are in that moment, oh, this is what we're talking about. When I had to call my kids and tell them their father had died. That's real. That's trauma. That's a moment in time that shakes your entire. Can't even imagine your entire, you know, humanity.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Karen Guggenheim]

And so for me, that was a really traumatic experience. And then, you know, making that choice to grow from the experience was like the most amazing thing ever. And so grateful that I was able to do that. How I was able to do that, I don't know. So for me, I feel. And I have a spiritual life. Right. I'm not very. I'm not religious, but I do have a spiritual life and I feel that something greater than myself supported me in that moment because my reaction was not like a natural reaction to what occurred.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, that's interesting. Or what if. What if alternatively a different side of yourself came out that was always within.

[Karen Guggenheim]

You, possibly, but it was not natural.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, whatever. It was everyday consciousness. No, I get it, I get it.

[Karen Guggenheim]

As, as, as he was dying and I, I kind of blocked this out, but my sister was also there. She said that I started, I started. I tapped into gratitude immediately as he's dying, I was grateful to him as the father. She's dying and I'm telling him, I'm so grateful to you, you know, you're such a great dad, you're a great husband, you know, it's okay, don't worry about it. I got it. You know, And. And so it was like a really not. The nurses and the doctors were looking at me like, this lady's insane. But that's how I could live through the moment, you know?

[Podcast Host]

Of course. And. Well, you bring a lot of this into your book. I just started, you know, kind of where your book starts off, which is really viewing pain and loss as catalysts for change. So you see a real great benefit to think of, think of really hard life challenges in that way.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Yeah, well, there's nothing you can do about it. Right. Some things you can do, you can't. Like.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. As Irving Yalam says, sooner or later you have to give up all hope for a better past.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Exactly. And Fred Luskin talks about that too, at the summit, the World Happiness Summit. And it's true, you know, but what I also learned, I learned so many different things. And one of the things that is so important to realize is that when you let go of the pain, and it takes a while because you need to have the tincture of time to heal some of it. But when you're willing to let go of the pain, and sometimes when we've lost something, we hold onto the pain because we're afraid that if we let go, we're going to forget the person. But what I have experienced in letting go of the pain is the love has grown. So obviously not romantic love, because my husband's is not here, but I can remember conversations. I can remember moments that make me feel so loved even today, that I didn't have access to when I was just feeling the pain.

[Podcast Host]

Something else, another part of deep, deep reservoirs of strength were within you. Yeah, that. I mean, it's. It's interesting how we want to think about that, but, you know, whether it's something outside yourself or it's. Whether it's something that was hidden inside yourself, you know, I'm not sure.

[Karen Guggenheim]

You know, I grew up in a third world country, so I saw a lot of pain.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Karen Guggenheim]

But I saw a lot of happiness and I saw a lot of joy in the midst of people who really, really poor in like really unfair situations. And so there was a grit and a resilience and not avoiding and saying, okay, well our life is, is. Is great. And, and there's something about the Nicaraguan people because they can make fun or not fun, but bring laughter into a really challenging situation. And accepting the situation is challenging.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Well, humor, I think, is one of the most underrated tools in the psychotherapy slash coaching toolkit, so. I agree. Especially absurdist humor, you know?

[Karen Guggenheim]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

I mean, it's. Everything is so absurd. Like, I bet your. Your life here. But even just here in New York, traveling here was absurd. Like watching. And then everything, you know, everywhere you go in New York, there's like some catastrophe, Right?

[Karen Guggenheim]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

It's amazing. You also talk about neuroplasticity and connecting with purpose under times of distress. It sounds like you went through both when your husband passed. Is that right?

[Karen Guggenheim]

Yes. So I rewired my brain completely. Like I'm not naturally joyful person or really once.

[Podcast Host]

That's part of your temperament?

[Karen Guggenheim]

No, I was, you know, I wasn't a glass half full person.

[Podcast Host]

Really.

[Karen Guggenheim]

No. And none of this came natural to me. I was always. I was. Since a little kid, I've been courageous and perseverance. So I used those strengths to. And then analytical. So first I sliced it. Well, I'm going to live because I'm going to be a good mom. Like being a mom is super important to me. And so for that to happen, I need to do these things. And I made the commitment. And that's something else that I think is, you know, we're living in a time I think it's so important to build resilience and to build resilient kids. And I agree. And we need to be committed to, I think, you know, to be committed to certain things and in certain ways of being. And so one of the things that I learned is that we have a to do list, Right? Every day we have a to do list. But what about a to be list? Do you. What do you want to be today? You want to be kind? You want to be nice? You want to be altruistic, you want to be forgiving? You get to control that and when you do that, you know, the experience of life for me at least softens and then I'm able to. Okay, that's disappointing. But then I got like 27 other things were pretty cool. So it's I used to be focused on thing I didn't get instead of the 27 wonderful things I got.

[Podcast Host]

Or even like the one person who criticizes you over all the people that.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Love you and then you call everybody.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah and you what you want them to sympathize with you?

[Karen Guggenheim]

Absolutely agree. And somebody will be like, oh, but I heard they compliment no, no, let's not talk about that. I need to talk to you. You know.

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[Podcast Host]

Wow, you really think you fundamentally, like transformed 11 years ago. I mean, that's incredible. Incredible. You know, your book could have also been about transformation. Your book could have been about a lot of things.

[Karen Guggenheim]

No, it is, it is about a total. It is about a transformation, I'm saying.

[Podcast Host]

I guess that could have been one of the words in the title as well.

[Karen Guggenheim]

You're right, you're right. But you know, in essence, when he died, I was transformed immediately into, into wife. Yeah, immediately. No, no, no wife. You know, like, and then our family structure, we went from four to three and as having a partner in raising children, no more. So you, like, who do you ask? Something that, you know, I talk about is that I felt like I was born again in. Not in the born again, I saw Jesus type, but born again in that this is a new reality. This is a new identity. I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing. And I have very adult responsibilities because I'm responsible for, exclusively for my kids in our life. And I'm feeling completely lost, you know.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's no, there's no set timetable for grief. You know, some people don't show post traumatic growth, you know.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

And what would you say are some of the biggest, biggest things people can do if they want to kind of accelerate that growth process?

[Karen Guggenheim]

Well, the very first thing I want to tell everybody who's listening is that it's possible. So just by opening that window into your. The possibilities of your life.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Karen Guggenheim]

And it doesn't matter if you don't know how. It doesn't matter if it looks super bleak, because it does. And you know, but the possibility that it can happen will hedge you towards it possibly happening and, you know, being patient and loving with yourself. And some of the things that I did, for example, I remember that my nephew had given me the Christmas before a T shirt. And it said I am happiness. And I wore the T shirt after my husband died, not because I was happy, but I figured if we wear a shirt for a team, we follow because we're like fans and we support that team or what they're about. So I said, I'm going to wear the happiness shirt because this is where I'd like to be.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Behavioral activation. Let the cognitions follow the behavior.

[Karen Guggenheim]

And then the other thing, I started copying what happy people do.

[Podcast Host]

How do you know who or who are happy people? Like, how do you know that?

[Karen Guggenheim]

Well, I saw them. They look joyful, they look engaged in life. They look like they wanted to do things. So that's not hahaha. But like, oh, you know, they have energy.

[Podcast Host]

I see.

[Karen Guggenheim]

So they're creative. And so that to me was like, okay, that looks like something that could be happiness. Right. And. And so that meant, you know, saying yes eventually to go and have lunch with the group. So I was, I told you I was doing my MBA. And so I would fly into Washington D.C. and I would originally fly in for the, for the classes and fly out immediately. Like, the classes over. I head to the airport and come back because my younger son was still in high school in Miami. And then I started staying and leaving on Sunday. So then I would go to dinner with the group. And I remember one year out after his. His death. And there are two things about that. One is it's funny that you think it's like, okay, you've passed the first anniversary, the first Christmas, the first New Year's, the first Father's Day, first birthday. And then it's like, okay, now it's not going to hurt because I've done the first one. And when you realize first year, day one, that it still hurts, it's almost as impacting as the original loss because you realize it's a forever deal in one way or the other. So acceptance on that and letting go. Right. And the other thing I remember, I was at lunch with a group of friends and somebody said something really funny and I'm analyzing. I'm like, ooh, that was funny. And I go, can I laugh? Is it appropriate? For how long can. It's been a year, but is it enough? A year should be a year and a half. And I had this whole internal conversation, and then the same way that we talked, talk about, you know, toxic positivity.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Like, you also shouldn't block the fact that if you're joyful in a moment, that that's okay. Right. Also. And so I was like, okay, I'm gonna laugh, I'm gonna laugh. And I laughed. And that was like the snowballing Effect of what other things were to come that I said yes to because I allow. I allowed myself to feel all my feelings.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Permission to laugh? That'd be another book permission.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Absolutely.

[Podcast Host]

I love that.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Because we have labels, right. And for me, when I heard the word widow.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Karen Guggenheim]

For some reason, till this day, I think of, like, the Godfather or an old Italian movie where now you've. Your hair's cut off, your. Your. You went to the nunnery or whatever. You're wearing black for the rest of your life. And that's why I'm wearing pink pants. You know, I love the pants. Thank you. It's. It's. It's these labels. And I, you know, till this day, when you sign, you're. You're filling out paperwork, like to go to the doctor. It says single, married, or widow. Why can I just be single? Why. Why do I have to, you know, go to that moment again as widow? And. And those are things that perhaps we can do away with. But you're only aware of it if you're in that category. But those words mean a lot. And so I don't feel like in my identity that I am a widow. I think there's something that happened, that widowhood is part of it, but something else that I learned from Mogadot, who's. Who's really great. He wrote a book called Sulfur Happy and many other books, but we connected really closely because he sadly lost his son tragically from an emergency appendectomy and then dedicated his life to promoting happiness at scale, whatever. And he said that his son's name was Ali. And so Ali lived and Ali died. And he chooses to focus. Equally true. He focuses on the part that he lived. And so for me, I choose to do the same instead of getting stuck in the bit that my husband died, and he died young and, you know, unfortunately from the flus, which, you know, still boggles my mind, I choose to focus on the part that he lived. And the work that I do, you know, with the World Happiness Summit is bringing legacy to the kind of person that he was, incredibly kind. He was a scientist, he was a physician. And so all of those components come up in my work, and it makes me feel joyful and also gives me a lot of meaning and purpose to bring that way of being that he was in the work that I do today.

[Podcast Host]

Beautiful. Let's move on to the part of your book where you talk about the importance of movement and breathing. Very undervalued things in our society with everyone so focusing on their work. Right. And not, not. So tell me a little about the importance of these, these, these exercises.

[Karen Guggenheim]

So thankfully I had been doing Yoga for about 15 years. So the power of the conscious breath and actually that got me through the moment of him dying. I just went into breathing, conscious breathing, because I could have easily fainted. But I went again. What do I control in this situation where I can told I can control my breath because everything was out of control. And so I tapped into the breathing and I think that's something that we, we, we. We have always. Not I think, but we, we actually have always within our control, our breath in any given circumstance. So if you're, you know, like for a panic attack or you're getting news that are really challenging, there's a layoff, you know, your, your love life that you didn't get the answer you wanted, etc. You can go into, into conscious breathing and then that has all the reactions that are happening, you know, biologically through your body that then is bringing you into coherence, which is really amazing. And then the other part about movement, so I see that into physical movement, but also mental movement, not get stuck. And you know, we all know about the growth versus the fixed mindset. And so for me that movement is so important to go into the growth and then moving your body, you know, again, letting biology do its bit. So where if you listen to music or, or you move with dance, then you're bypassing cognition, you're letting biology help you out into, into going towards greater happiness or, or well being or releasing stress.

[Podcast Host]

Wow, wonderful. Any particular people you followed that helped you the most with learning breathing techniques? Any shout outs you want to give?

[Karen Guggenheim]

Oh my goodness. So I had my yoga instructor in Miami who helped me out a lot.

[Podcast Host]

What's their name?

[Karen Guggenheim]

It's her actually. Veronica Vidal. She's my yoga instructor. And then I became certified. That was before my husband died, but that helped me a lot.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, you got certified?

[Karen Guggenheim]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Beautiful. So you had a new appreciation of life right after this. And, and so what, what kind of message you want to give people who are, are desperately trying to find any meaning in their life anymore.

[Karen Guggenheim]

So, you know, I mean, sometimes I can also say that I sympathize with whoever's going through a lot of anxiety because I have anxiety, so it's something that I deal with. You know, it's. Sometimes it's really hard because you get into this, you know, spiral.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, we all have our loops.

[Karen Guggenheim]

We went to the loop and see how you can break the loop. And that means Putting in rituals that you commit to. So, for example, I commit every morning to reading and journaling and meditating. And whichever way you meditate, you know, whatever it is that. Whether it's prayer or it's, you know, mindfulness practice or whatever it is, breathing techniques, those are kind of hacks into the spiraling. And I go for a walk almost every morning for about four miles.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Karen Guggenheim]

So that helps me a lot to be out in nature and to experience that. I listen to music when I'm taking a shower, so that helps me reset as well. I don't listen to news. So, for example, you get a lot of people like, oh, my God, news are stressing me out. Don't listen to it. And if you really need to do it in the middle of the day when your brain is not that susceptible, so don't do it first day, first thing in the morning, or last thing at night. You're not imprinting good things into your brain.

[Podcast Host]

Yes, yes.

[Karen Guggenheim]

And that helps out. But, you know, if you want to tap into meaning, investigate it. You know, before this happened in my life, I feel like I was sitting back, sitting on the bus bench with my purse, waiting for the happiness bus to come. And it had to be yellow, and it had to be a certain way and had to be on this street and, like, almost hit me with it. And when he died, it was like that park bench, like, blew up. And I had to look if the. The bus was around the corner. Maybe it was actually a. A motorcycle, and it was red. So I had to go and be active into finding the purpose in my life, into finding meaning, into creating all these different things. And so it's hard when you're feeling down because you stop moving, right? You stop moving. So it's. So just go walk around the block of your, like, one block. It doesn't matter. It's like three minutes.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Karen Guggenheim]

And. And we think we have to do these gigantic things, but you don't. You just have to do a little tiny thing. And if you're feeling down, call somebody and offer help on principle. Not because you want to do it, but you do it because you at least test how you feel afterwards that you've done that. And if you feel good, do it again.

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[Podcast Host]

People also tend to think that you have to do everything for some other reason. I like how you say we can savor just for the sake of savoring, you know. And Abraham Maslow called them the be values, things that are values in and of themselves. We don't try to get anything else other than those things are ends in themselves. That takes a shift of consciousness, doesn't allow yourself to do things just for the sake of the thing itself.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Absolutely, absolutely. You know, at the end of the day, you have to have this conversation with yourself and how do you want to mostly feel in your life? And if you mostly want to feel better or have more meaning, invest in that, invest time. And it requires time and it requires attention, it requires repetition and it requires which is the speaker or which is the framework or which is the program that resonates for me or which are the practices that worked for me and start to maybe journal and see which are the, you know, routines that start to make you feel better and which ones don't stop doing the ones that don't make you feel better and start doing the ones. And it's not about avoiding responsibility or avoiding problems in your life. Believe me, I've had to tackle so many and now as an entrepreneur, it's not easy being an entrepreneur.

[Podcast Host]

That's true.

[Karen Guggenheim]

But, but then I have that conversation, right? Do I, do I want to, you know, put on the World Happiness Summit? Do I want to work, do I want to work in, in a large organization or do I want to be self employed? And so when you go into. Yes, that's what I'd like. So then it's part of the process, you know.

[Podcast Host]

What is the World Happiness Summit?

[Karen Guggenheim]

The World Happiness Summit is this most amazing, amazing event that takes place every March and in the same location. No, it travels around. It brings together the world's leading experts in the science of happiness and well being with a global audience. And it's the experts and practitioners who are bringing this work into organizations, educational environments, business, businesses. And how can we learn tools, evidence based tools for a happier life. You know, individuals, collective well being, like I said, workplaces, schools, etc. And last year was in Lake Como, this year was in London. And we were very honored to have the US Surgeon General, Dr. Vivek Murthy there.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I know him.

[Karen Guggenheim]

We also launched our World well Being Policy Forum with Professor Lord lyard at London School of Economics. And that is, and Dr. Murthy was there as well. That is our initiative to bring this into country policy and also education and business because we need the private sector in order to make this change at scale.

[Podcast Host]

Absolutely.

[Karen Guggenheim]

And in the next conference in March in Miami. So I hope all of you will be there because it's going to be amazing. It's going to be in Miami beach at the new World Center.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, wow. You live in Florida, right?

[Karen Guggenheim]

I live in Miami.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, you live in Nickisso. This is your hometown. Wonderful. When did you start this conference?

[Karen Guggenheim]

I found Wahasu in 2016, and then four, no, five months later, we had the first World happiness summit in 2017.

[Podcast Host]

Look at you. We're doing this for so long, and it's become a staple of the happiness summits. Yeah. Very nice. You've become a rising legend in the field of happiness studies.

[Karen Guggenheim]

I'm very happy to be able to share.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Karen Guggenheim]

What I have learned and to share work, you know, like your work, and the work of others who have dedicated their lives to. To really bringing evidence and research into it. Because we know this intuitively and we've been talking about this for, what, thousands of years, and human happiness.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Right. And. And I love the fact that we have the science to support what we know intuitively, and we know that it's the right thing to do. But now we have the metrics to also support that.

[Podcast Host]

Agreed. No lies detected there. No lies detected. So I want to return to your book. I captured the moment when you said the World Happiness Summit. So we took a little detour there. But I'm glad that we were able to talk about the world happiness. Let's return to your book for a second. Relationships. Because you have a whole really cool section on relationships. What does it take to have a happy relationship?

[Karen Guggenheim]

It takes awareness, decision making. I love the Powelskis. They talk about positive relations.

[Podcast Host]

Yes.

[Karen Guggenheim]

The positive relationships.

[Podcast Host]

Hi, Susie.

[Karen Guggenheim]

I love it when they talk about. When you ask your spouse or your partner to go to the supermarket and you ask for 10 items and they bring back nine, don't focus on the one they left out, which we tend to do. Right. That will go a long way in your relationship, making, you know, focus on. On everything that's working well and then address what's not. But perhaps through a constructive lens, you know, and really understand that we are our relationships. I mean, we're. We, you know, we're nothing without people.

[Podcast Host]

Yes.

[Karen Guggenheim]

You know, we. We need people. We enjoy people. I think the meaning and the reflection is in people. And so investing the best of our time is also important. Right. It shouldn't be scraps of our time with the most important people in our. In our world. Because in our world, in our. In our lives, we tend to do that sometimes. And they love us. It's okay, you know, and that's. That's not fair to you and to them. Because it's so magical to have people in your life who love. Like. Love is the most amazing thing. Like Arthur Brooks talks about, you know, happiness is love, and it's true. It's love, you know, and it's. It's love. It's impersonal love, it's romantic love, it's filial love, it's parent love, caregiver love, love for the planet, animals, whatever it is. But it's this, this amazing feeling and significance. And largely you feel that with people?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, for sure. Or animals sometimes.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Absolutely.

[Podcast Host]

I felt that with your dog.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

Adorable. And I'm sorry to hear they're stressed a little bit. You said they were stressed a little bit.

[Karen Guggenheim]

He was a little stressed. I'm really sorry we spoil him, though.

[Podcast Host]

You spoil him? Yeah. Okay. There's a chapter I really like in your book on forgiveness. Can you talk a little about why forgiveness is so important in relationships?

[Karen Guggenheim]

I love forgiveness. And we talked about earlier, Fred Luskin out of Stanford. He's spoken at, except for the first one at every summit, and he usually ends the conference because it's the hardest thing in the happiness study is forgiveness. And you know, for obvious reasons, because usually when forgiveness is involved is because we feel an injury and that's emotional and a lot of other things tied into it. But it's such an important, important thing if you want to be happier because it. You allow fertile ground for your happiness to thrive. Right. And that doesn't mean that what happened is okay. And some things will never, ever be okay. And you don't even have to forgive the person, you know, verbally, or they may not even be aware. You just have to really forgive in your heart, in your mind. But it's just the most amazing thing. And then, of course, if you are, you know, forgiveness of friends and, you know, misunderstandings in the day to day are also really conducive to positive relationships. But forgiving things that were done, you know, initially I didn't want to forgive the doctors who make the mistakes that caused my husband's death. That was hard to forgive.

[Podcast Host]

Really hard.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Yeah, it was really hard. Yeah, it was really, really hard. But what am I going to do with it? You know, what am I going to do with it? Because if you attach to unforgiveness and bitterness, it's taking more away from me, sticking energy that I can invest in my children, invest in myself, invest in my business. My creativity would go down, my sense of hope would go down, because it's a drain, right? And so it's like one of the most important things. And some people, they don't know how to begin. Right. And just having a willingness is the first step. And. And I really Encourage those that are struggling with that to look at Fred's work because it's amazing. And we have our content, by the way, free on our YouTube channel.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, great.

[Karen Guggenheim]

And so you can see the talks there.

[Podcast Host]

The World Happiness Summit YouTube channel.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Yes, the World Happiness.

[Podcast Host]

That's really kind of you to. To put that up.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Yes, we wanted to do that because it's so. It's, it's amazing and against transformational. And the talks are like. They blow your mind, I bet.

[Podcast Host]

How many people attend these? Are we talking about?

[Karen Guggenheim]

Thousands? A thousand. And then we also do it online. So some people, some people join online and we do more than that. We do different kinds of programs. So we collaborated with a Ukrainian positive psychologist, Ala Klimenko, and we did two programs with her. One of them, Marty was involved and.

[Podcast Host]

That'S Martin Seligman for those.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Seligman listening. And so it was there for people in Ukraine, and we did that for free. Free programs. One called Resilience 2.0. And over 100,000 people have participated since last year. So that's really incredible. It's really amazing. And so when people say, oh well, do you. Is. Is it the right time to talk about happiness? Because that's another thing that I. Is it the right time? Because this or that is happening. And so the right time to talk about happiness is when you're ready to talk about happiness. And what I have found that people who are suffering, they want to know about these things. And so in March 2022, we had a lot of interest from people in Ukraine as they were beginning with the war and such. And we got some requests for people who were actually in camps in Poland saying they wanted to buy a online. So we donated it.

[Podcast Host]

What kind of camps?

[Karen Guggenheim]

It just refugee. You know, they were just fleeing. Some people gave them free copies, free access to the. They wanted to. They said, we're. We're suffering. Yeah, you know, we, we know that there's a World Happiness Summit. Can I buy a. A ticket or whatever. And so we donated those that access for free to, to be able to listen in virtually. But what I'm trying to say is that, you know, it's always the right time. Now we never push right. And shove it in anybody's face. What we're saying is that we're, we're a platform for this amazing work that people are doing and that we're now doing. So if you would like to understand what science says about well being says about happiness, about resilience, about grit, about forgiveness, kindness, meaning and purpose, Here it is.

[Podcast Host]

Yes.

[Karen Guggenheim]

You know, and so beyond that, now we've done, you know, we do workshops and we're doing things in education as well. And now moving into a women's initiative. So Wahasa Women Initiative. We're having the launch of the event at Gallup headquarters in Washington D.C. on December 4th. And it's talking about women's well being at work because it suffered a lot more than men's. Well, because one of the key aspects is that, you know, women tend to be the, the caregivers.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Karen Guggenheim]

And, and responsible. Largely. It's changing now, which is wonderful to see more of men caregiving, you know, to, to, to children. But, but largely it's women. So that's very. That impacts get burn.

[Podcast Host]

Burnout.

[Karen Guggenheim]

It's different. Yeah, it's, it's hard, it's challenging. So, so we're going to look at that. And of course, when, whether it's men or women, when one thrives, it trickles to the other. The same when, when we do things for children, it helps also the community. So what we're trying to do is also go into different points where we can help and shed light on different things that perhaps others are not doing at that moment so that we can all thrive together and create what Lyard talks about, the win win scenarios to move away from zero sum games. And that's from an economist. Right. Talking about creating these opportunities for growth.

[Podcast Host]

Yes. And Maslow would call them synergy, synergies. So Enhanced Spirituality is the last part of your book. What is Enhanced spirituality?

[Karen Guggenheim]

So I, like, I shared, you know, earlier when, when my husband passed away, I had this kind of spiritual, immediate spiritual. I don't know what it was. It was like a, like, like a holding something. I felt like something held me in that moment. And so from then on I just have been able to tap into this, you know, collective humanity and the importance of all of us being okay together and tapping into the fact that we're human beings. Right. And so, and we're more alike than not, even though we have all these differences. And that for me, spirituality and the things that bind us together in love, you know, that's that type of spirituality in that sense. And so the way that it was enhanced or that through the experience or through the post traumatic growth is that understanding that we are all intertwined.

[Podcast Host]

Really wonderful. All the things you're putting in this world. And I'm so glad we finally were able to do this podcast. And good luck on your book tour.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Thank you so much and thank you for all the work you're doing.

[Podcast Host]

Oh thank you.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Into making this world a better place and highlighting the work of others. And your work is so really important in this world too. Thank you.

[Podcast Host]

It's a lot.

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[Podcast Host]

The day begins at the Chase Sapphire.

[LG XBoom Advertiser]

Lounge by the club at Boston Logan Airport.

[Podcast Host]

You get the Clam Chowder in San Diego. It's Tostadas New York Espresso Martini. It's 10am why not? It's the quiet before your next flight. The shower that resets your day, the menu that lets you know where you are. This is access to over 1300 airport.

[LG XBoom Advertiser]

Lounges and every Sapphire lounge by the.

[Podcast Host]

Club and and one card that gets you in Chase Sapphire Reserve the most rewarding card.

[Karen Guggenheim]

Learn [e-mail] Sapphire Reserve cards issued by.

[Podcast Host]

JP Morgan, Chase bank and a member FDIC subject to credit approval.

[Karen Guggenheim]

This is an iHeart podcast.