The Psychology Podcast

Episode: “The Gentle Power of Sisu” with Dr. Elisabet Lahti

Host: Scott Barry Kaufman
Date: November 6, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman engages in a rich, vulnerable conversation with Dr. Elisabet Lahti—an educator, researcher, and founder of Sisu Lab—about the Finnish concept of “Sisu.” They explore Sisu as a unique blend of embodied fortitude, courage, and perseverance, but also discuss its deeper layers: gentle power, healing from trauma, cultural applications, and the alchemy of resilience. Dr. Lahti shares personal stories, research insights, and guidance on harnessing Sisu both for personal growth and as a force for societal transformation.

Key Topics and Insights

1. Defining Sisu: The Fire in the Belly

• What is Sisu?

  • An ancient Finnish concept, representing deep, embodied strength discovered at the edge of human limits—“the fire in the belly in the face of adversity.”
  • Rooted in the Finnish word “sisus,” literally meaning “the inside” or “interior.”
  • “When we come to that place where we come to our preconceived limit… and we yet don't give up.” (Dr. Lahti, 07:06-08:19)

• Sisu and “Second Wind”

  • Parallels William James’ concept of “second wind” in extreme adversity, referencing moments when you draw on reserves you didn’t know you had.

• Not Just for Finns

  • Sisu is both culturally rooted and universal—its qualities exist in all people.

2. A Personal Journey: From Darkness to Gentle Power

• Origin Story

  • Dr. Lahti’s inspiration to study Sisu began after surviving an abusive relationship in New York City, an experience she describes as both traumatic and formative:

    “How do humans overcome extreme adversity? How do we do that? Who overcomes? Who doesn’t?” (Dr. Lahti, 09:17-11:28)

• Phenomenological Research

  • Her PhD takes a “phenomenological approach,” meaning she became part of her own research—using subjective experience and storytelling to deepen the understanding of Sisu.
  • She pioneered research by running 1500 miles across New Zealand, merging self-experimentation with social activism to collect data on endurance, compassion, and healing.

“I wanted to reframe anyone who's gone through any kind of abuse... we are strong, we have incredible capacity and strength, and we have beautiful futures.” (Dr. Lahti, 14:43-17:03)

3. Sisu vs. Grit and Other Strengths

• Comparing Concepts

  • Sisu is part of the family of grit, perseverance, and resilience, but with key differences:

    • Grit (Angela Duckworth): About long-term passion and perseverance.
    • Sisu: Momentary—arises specifically in crisis or at perceived limits, not about day-to-day persistence.

    “Sisu happens more in the moment… we borrow a bit of this embodied fortitude.” (Dr. Lahti, 25:11-27:55)

  • Embodied vs. Mental Fortitude

    • Sisu is more than mindset—it’s a body-mind phenomenon. The gut, emotions, and nervous system are integral.

4. The Gentle Side of Sisu: Tenderness Within Strength

• Gentle Power

  • Lahti’s later work, including her book, explores “gentle power,” integrating toughness with self-compassion and mercy.

    • Story of the “miracle of day 12” on her New Zealand run, where compassion for herself became crucial.

    “It actually was or had been easier for me to be hard on myself than to be gentle and kind and have mercy.” (Dr. Lahti, 29:36-32:01)

  • The transformation of sisu through adversity becomes alchemy—turning the “lead” of suffering into “gold” (growth and wisdom).

• Constructive Expression of Sisu

  • Pushing too hard can be destructive; Sisu must be balanced by reason and care, both for ourselves and others.
  • Avoids the “shadow side”—burnout, harming others, stoicism without feeling.

5. Developing Your Sisu: Practical Tips

The “SISU” Model (41:06–44:41)

• S – Start Now:

  • Neuroplasticity favors practice—start building small acts of courage or resilience today.
  • “Go comfortably into discomfort… the point isn’t to be hard on yourself.” (Dr. Lahti, 41:04–41:56)

• I – Intuit:

  • Build somatic intelligence and listen to your body’s wisdom. “Our brain is always in the past or the future… [but] the body is in the present moment.”

• S – Self-care:

  • “When I finally learned to sleep, my life quality improved so much and so did my resilience.”

• U – Unity:

  • Co-regulate your nervous system, become a “safe person” and foster collective Sisu.
  • “Sisu doesn’t only live in you or me, but in the space between us.” (Dr. Lahti, 43:36)

6. Sisu in the World: Healing, Community, and Social Change

• Beyond Individual Resilience

  • Sisu is foundational in healing from trauma. Lahti notes the importance of recalling—even in mental health struggles—times we were strong, no matter how small.

    “Opening the conversation so we can even start to talk about that we have this innate fortitude and every single person has it.” (Dr. Lahti, 49:15–50:38)

• Sisu as Cultural Ethos

  • In Finnish culture, Sisu includes honesty and doing things well even when unwatched: “It invites the person who cultivates Sisu to actually look at their own choices.” (Dr. Lahti, 53:00–54:19)

• Role of Community, “Upstanders,” and Collective Courage

  • Sisu Not Silence campaign: applies Sisu to fight interpersonal and systemic violence.
  • The real engine of change is the “bystanders” who become “upstanders.”
  • Cites “the art of insubordination” and the importance of speaking out.

“When we see something that is diminishing to humanity… we have the courage to speak up, speak out against it.” (Dr. Lahti, 39:50–40:15)

• Sisu and Democracy
  • Sisu underpins the values needed for democracy and ethical living: courage, transparency, responsibility.

7. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Defining Sisu:
  • “It denotes this kind of very deep fortitude. I would call it the fire in the belly in the face of adversity.” (Dr. Lahti, 07:06)
• The Misconception:
  • “It's a misconception to think that Sisu is only the big things we do. I personally think it's those micro moments in our ordinary life… tiny little things that actually really end up defining our future.” (Dr. Lahti, 03:10, repeated at 23:40)
• Gentle Power:
  • “It actually had been easier for me to be hard on myself than to be gentle and kind.” (Dr. Lahti, 32:00)
  • “Gentle power is the higher octave of Sisu—it's the constructive expression of Sisu.” (Dr. Lahti, 34:25)
• On Sisu and Grit:
  • “Grit is passion and perseverance… but Sisu is more like it happens in the moment.” (Dr. Lahti, 25:11)
• On Sisu for Healing:
  • “Even just thinking back in life to when they overcame something that was tough… you can start to remember there is more strength to us than what meets the eye at a given moment.” (Dr. Lahti, 49:15)
• On Cultural Change:
  • “The real fulcrum of change is the bystanders, the masses of people…” (Dr. Lahti, 37:19)
• Micro Moments:
  • “If we in those moments when we feel the pull to abandon everything… use that inner strength to do the thing that might even feel impossible—to face someone with kindness or open a conversation…” (Dr. Lahti, 24:10)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 03:10 – Sisu as micro-moments, not just big heroic acts.
• 07:06 – Dr. Lahti details the meaning and history of “Sisu.”
• 09:17 – Personal story: abusive relationship and origin of her research.
• 14:16 – Her 1500-mile run in New Zealand and activism.
• 23:40 – Misconceptions about Sisu.
• 25:11 – Sisu vs. Grit and embodied fortitude.
• 29:36 – Gentle Power & “miracle of day 12.”
• 41:04 – SISU model for self-development.
• 49:15 – How Sisu aids healing and mental health.
• 53:00 – Sisu in strengthening democracy and cultural integrity.
• 54:34 – Reflection on integration, well-being, and future research.

Tone & Style

The episode blends deep academic insight with sincere vulnerability and hope. Both host and guest are warm, encouraging, and at times, lightly humorous and self-reflective. Storytelling is poetic but accessible, inviting listeners to see resilience not as superhuman toughness but as a quiet, actionable force within us all.

Further Resources

• Dr. Elisabet Lahti’s Book: Gentle Power
• Sisu Lab: [website/socials as referenced on episode]
• Sisu Not Silence Campaign and “Upstander Project” for community and workplace activism.
• Related concepts: Equanimity (Buddhist), Grit (Angela Duckworth), Embodied Cognition, Collective Courage.

Summary prepared for listeners seeking both the heart and science behind Sisu—its quiet, gentle, and transformative power.