The Psychology Podcast

Episode: “Why Brains Need Friends” w/ Dr. Ben Rein

Host: Scott Barry Kaufman
Guest: Dr. Ben Rein
Release Date: October 9, 2025

Overview

In this engaging episode, neuroscientist Dr. Ben Rein discusses the essential role of social connection in human brain health, drawing on evolutionary theory, the neurobiology of empathy and reward, and current societal dynamics. Host Scott Barry Kaufman and Dr. Rein cover why humans are inherently social animals, how modern life is fueling an epidemic of loneliness, and the brain’s mechanisms for reward and empathy. Dr. Rein also relates key findings from his new book, "Why Brains Need Friends," offering practical insights and drawing connections between neuroscience, mental health, and real-world behaviors.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing Dr. Ben Rein and His Work

• Dr. Rein’s research spans the neurobiology of autism and empathy, including how substances like MDMA affect social behavior ([04:32]).
• He’s a passionate advocate for science communication, believing all scientists should learn to translate research for the public ([05:08]).

2. Three Hard Truths About Social Life

• 1. We are super isolated.
• 2. Isolation is bad for brain health.
• 3. Both external (societal) and internal (evolutionary) factors contribute to this isolation.
  • “We are living in an increasingly fractured society.” (Dr. Rein, [07:33])
  • COVID, remote work, social media, and automation have replaced many organic social interactions ([07:33]–[10:17]).

3. Evolutionary Roots of Social Connection

• Fear of rejection is deeply ingrained; we overpredict rejection in social situations, but real rejection is rare ([11:47]–[13:47]).
  • “Across hundreds of trials, 0% of the time were they rejected. The stranger never said no to a conversation.” (Dr. Rein, [12:51])
• Evolution favored humans who thrived in groups; modern-day social reward systems stem from survival instincts ([15:36]).
• Social stress (e.g. isolation) is an adaptive “alarm”—evolved to push us back into groups ([17:32]–[20:45]).
• Social features like visible sclera and expressive faces facilitate connection and understanding within groups.

4. Empathy and Outgroup Dynamics

• Brain imaging shows empathy circuits are more active when perceiving in-group members ([25:15]–[29:32]).
• Political polarization is weakening empathy, even fracturing families ([29:32]–[30:41]).
  • “Empathy...is diminished for people who we view as in our out group. And there’s literally studies where ...the brain areas involved in empathy will show more activity when there’s that overlap.” (Dr. Rein, [27:27])
  • “There’s a measured psychopathy, I guess...embedded in the human brain. Right. You need to disengage sometimes when it’s important for your survival.” (Dr. Rein, [29:32])

5. Neuroscience of Social Reward

• Social reward involves a domino effect of neurotransmitters: Oxytocin → Dopamine & Serotonin.
  • “This brain system of social reward is first driven by oxytocin...that oxytocin gets sent to a bunch of different brain areas...tips two other dominoes over and those two other dominoes are serotonin and dopamine.” (Dr. Rein, [34:22])
• Oxytocin is context-dependent—promoting in-group love and sometimes out-group aggression ([39:43]–[42:02]).
• Social interaction releases neurotransmitters that reinforce social behavior, explaining why connection is pleasurable (and beneficial for mating and bonding) ([34:07]–[38:43]).

6. The Nuances of Empathy

• Empathy is modulated by context, self-other overlap, and past experiences ([42:20]–[47:17]).
• Cognitive empathy (understanding another’s feelings) can be trained to improve emotional empathy (feeling with another) ([48:14]–[50:55]).
  • Practical exercise: “If you’re trying to empathize more with others, imagine the self-other overlap...” ([44:43]).

7. Challenges in Changing Empathy

• Empathy is hard to shift, especially for strongly disagreeable or antagonistic personalities ([50:55]):
  • “People who are antagonistic are not motivated to become more agreeable, and people who are agreeable don’t want to become more antagonistic.” (Scott, [51:37])
• Most people don’t self-identify as low-empathy, which hampers motivation to change ([52:05]).

8. Virtual vs. In-Person Social Interactions

• Research suggests emotional benefit decreases as interactions become less lifelike: live > video > phone > text ([56:04]–[57:38]).
  • “The less lifelike our interactions are, the worse we feel after.” (Dr. Rein, [56:17])
• Social media use correlates with greater loneliness (“lonely media”) and may reduce sleep, compounding negative mood effects ([58:39]–[60:14]).

9. Likability and Social Success

• Factors influencing likability:
  • Attractiveness (partially controllable)
  • Authenticity — being true to oneself remains crucial
  • Body language (mirroring boosts connection)
  • Expressiveness plus emotional intelligence ([61:44]–[66:21])
• Mirroring body language subconsciously increases perceived likability ([64:43]–[65:19]).
  • “When you, like, if we were interacting and I were to mimic your body movements...they will rate the person as more likeable at the end of it.” (Dr. Rein, [64:43]).

10. Interbrain Synchrony

• Brains synchronize during close social interaction and teamwork, especially among family members or when collaborating ([66:36]–[69:43]).
  • “When two people are interacting, sharing an experience, working together, you may see synchrony and that certain brain areas might show basically identical patterns of activity.” (Dr. Rein, [66:53])
• Competition and outgroup status disrupt synchrony.

11. Synchrony Beyond Direct Interaction

• Watching a movie or sharing a sensory cue (like a familiar smell) can synchronize not just the brain but body signals (heart rate, breathing) and even foster a subtle bond ([71:53]–[73:13]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We are living in an increasingly fractured society, which is obviously bad, or maybe not obviously bad, but it is bad.” — Dr. Rein ([07:33])
• “Across hundreds of trials, 0% of the time were they rejected. The stranger never said no to a conversation.” — Dr. Rein ([12:51])
• “Isolation is bad for brain health.” — Dr. Rein ([10:31])
• “Empathy is a core facet of interaction... Without empathy... you really... dehumanize someone in your brain.” — Dr. Rein ([27:10])
• “There’s a measured psychopathy, I guess, embedded in the human brain... Right. You need to disengage sometimes when it’s important for your survival.” — Dr. Rein ([29:32])
• “The brain has these built-in social reward systems because of the savanna days... The consequence of that might be when we talk to a stranger on the train, we actually feel pretty good, even though we might not expect to.” — Dr. Rein ([15:36])
• “Oxytocin is context-dependent... it can be one of our greatest sources of antagonism.” — Scott ([39:43])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Research background and science communication – [04:32]–[05:29]
• Three hard truths about social life – [07:33]–[10:43]
• Social anxiety and over-prediction of rejection – [11:47]–[13:47]
• Neurobiology of social reward – [34:07]–[38:43]
• Empathy: context, self-other overlap, and group dynamics – [42:20]–[50:55]
• Personality and empathy change – [50:55]–[52:44]
• Virtual vs. In-person interaction – [56:04]–[60:14]
• Likability and body language – [61:44]–[66:21]
• Interbrain synchrony – [66:36]–[69:43]
• Synchrony via shared experience/sensory cues – [71:53]–[73:13]

Conclusion

This episode blends approachable science with heartfelt urgency, stressing the importance of rekindling in-person social connections and cultivating broader empathy—both for our mental health and for the cohesion of society. Dr. Ben Rein’s blend of neuroscience, evolutionary psychology, real-life examples, and practical advice creates an invaluable guide for understanding (and improving) modern human connection.

For more insights and practical tips, check out Dr. Ben Rein’s new book, Why Brains Need Friends: The Neuroscience of Social Connection.