Allies wary of Trump admin's incompetence after scandal over military plan group chat

Summary

The Rachel Maddow Show: Episode Summary

Title: Allies wary of Trump admin's incompetence after scandal over military plan group chat
Host: Rachel Maddow, MSNBC
Release Date: March 28, 2025

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1. Introduction: Rising Concerns Over the Trump Administration

In this episode, Rachel Maddow delves into growing anxieties surrounding the Trump administration's handling of critical governmental functions, particularly focusing on the Social Security Administration (SSA) and a recent scandal involving the unauthorized sharing of military plans via a group chat. Maddow highlights the grassroots movements emerging across the country as Americans push back against perceived governmental incompetence and threats to essential services.

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2. Protests Against SSA Changes: Voices of Concerned Retirees

Key Highlights:

• Closure of SSA Offices: The Trump administration's Department of Government Efficiency (Doge) announced the closure of numerous SSA field offices and the elimination of over-the-phone ID verification, moving towards online or in-person verification exclusively.

• Impact on Vulnerable Populations: Retirees and Social Security recipients, particularly those in rural areas or with mobility issues, find these changes alarming and detrimental to their ability to access vital benefits.

Notable Quotes:

• Lauren Lowry (Protester, Grand Rapids):
  "[01:38] 'To what's going on and also supporting the people that are working in there, saying, we appreciate you.'"

• Sue Kressley (Pre-COVID, President of the American Academy of Pediatrics):
  "[07:02] 'Will you protect Social Security in its current form?'"

• Rachel Maddow:
  "[02:02] 'I am a retiree. I worked for 50 years in all different trades of working and I paid into my Social Security benefits all those years.'"

Section Overview: Maddow reports from various locations, including Grand Rapids, Michigan; Reno, Nevada; Livonia, Michigan; and Nashville, Tennessee, where retirees and Social Security recipients have organized protests. These demonstrations aim to thwart the administration's attempts to undermine SSA services, emphasizing the dependency of many Americans on monthly Social Security payments for basic necessities like rent, food, and utilities.

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3. Grassroots Political Leadership: Americans Taking Action

Key Highlights:

• Emergence of New Leaders: Ordinary Americans, such as Lauren Lowry, join protests and organize rallies to defend Social Security and Medicare against administrative cuts and policy changes.

• Impact on Political Discourse: These movements are exerting pressure on elected officials, including Republican senators who are beginning to question the administration's actions during confirmation hearings.

Notable Quotes:

• Rachel Maddow:
  "[06:04] 'So gutting it and making it, privatizing it, that is not the answer.'"

• Chris Hayes:
  "[04:54] 'Elon Musk has got to go.'"
  (Note: This may relate to broader political dissent expressed during the show.)

Section Overview: The show underscores the significant role played by everyday citizens in shaping political outcomes. Maddow illustrates how these grassroots efforts are beginning to influence key political figures, leading to increased scrutiny of the Trump administration's policies on Social Security.

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4. The Group Chat Scandal: National Security at Risk

Key Highlights:

• Unauthorized Sharing of Military Plans: Senior Trump administration officials shared sensitive military information in a group chat on the Signal app, inadvertently including a journalist.

• Potential Compromise of Intelligence Sharing: The use of personal devices for governmental communications raised severe security concerns, potentially jeopardizing alliances and intelligence operations.

• Legal and Security Repercussions: The American Oversight filed a lawsuit to preserve these communications, highlighting violations of federal record-keeping laws.

Notable Quotes:

• Rachel Maddow:
  "[34:11] 'These guys may not get it, but the American people seem to.'
  "[30:22] 'Let me just ask you if I got the basics right there about your reporting here...'"

• Alexander Ward (Wall Street Journal National Security Reporter):
  "[31:39] 'These kinds of conversations should be happening in secure facilities in the Pentagon, in the Situation Room...'"

Section Overview: Rachel Maddow examines a troubling incident where high-level officials discussed imminent military strikes in an insecure messaging app, Signal. This breach not only violates protocol but also endangers sensitive intelligence sources, particularly those provided by allies like Israel. Maddow interviews Alexander Ward, who emphasizes the gravity of the situation and its ramifications for future intelligence sharing.

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5. Expert Insights: Alexander Ward on Intelligence Sharing

Key Highlights:

• Consequences for Allies: Ward discusses how the mishandling of sensitive communications could erode trust with allies, leading to reduced intelligence cooperation.

• Potential for Increased Vulnerability: The unprotected nature of personal devices increases the risk of information being intercepted or leaked to adversaries like the Houthis in Yemen.

Notable Quotes:

• Alexander Ward:
  "[34:37] 'Now, whether that actually leads to a slowdown of intelligence sharing, I don't know...'"
  "[32:44] 'These kinds of conversations should be happening in secure facilities...'"

Section Overview: Ward provides a detailed analysis of how the administration's negligence in securing military communications can have far-reaching effects on national security and international relations. He warns of the potential loss of critical alliances and the increased risk of intelligence operations being compromised.

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6. Public Opinion and Polling Data: Trump Administration's Declining Approval

Key Highlights:

• Gallup Poll Findings: The latest polling shows overwhelming disapproval of President Trump's handling of various issues, including the economy, foreign affairs, and media relations.

• Impact on Political Landscape: Trump's low approval ratings are affecting his influence within the Republican Party, particularly in pivotal states like Texas.

Notable Quotes:

• Rachel Maddow:
  "[26:15] 'For whatever happens next, grab Kleenex...'"
  (Note: This appears to be part of a commercial section and may not directly relate to the main content.)

Section Overview: Maddow presents compelling polling data indicating a significant decline in President Trump's approval ratings across multiple sectors. She correlates these findings with the administration's recent missteps, suggesting a weakening influence within his own party and a potential shift in voter sentiment.

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7. The Ongoing Measles Outbreak: Mismanagement and Public Health Risks

Key Highlights:

• Promotion of Vitamin A as a Cure: Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has advocated for high doses of Vitamin A to treat measles, leading to cases of liver damage in children.

• Public Health Implications: Experts like Dr. Sue Kressley emphasize that vaccination remains the only effective measure against measles, and misuse of supplements can have severe health consequences.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Sue Kressley (American Academy of Pediatrics President):
  "[42:13] '...the only way we can prevent measles is through vaccination...'"
  "[43:49] 'No. It should be done in consultation with a trusted medical provider...'"

• Rachel Maddow:
  "[41:53] 'Can you tell me about the dangerousness of vitamin A?...'"

Section Overview: The episode sheds light on the dangerous repercussions of the Trump administration's misguided public health strategies. Dr. Kressley criticizes the promotion of Vitamin A as a measles remedy, underscoring the importance of vaccination and the risks associated with self-medicating based on unverified information.

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8. Conclusion: The Power of Collective Action and Accountability

Rachel Maddow wraps up the episode by reaffirming the importance of grassroots movements and informed citizenry in holding the administration accountable. She underscores that regular Americans, through persistent advocacy and protests, are instrumental in challenging and potentially reversing detrimental policies.

Notable Quotes:

• Rachel Maddow:
  "[07:30] 'Any changes to Social Security are not on the table and I will not cut your Social Security. It is a promise between you and the federal government.'"
  "[08:51] 'AARP is fighting to protect your Social Security...'"

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Key Takeaways:

• Government Accountability: The Trump administration faces significant backlash over its handling of Social Security and sensitive military communications.

• Public Mobilization: Ordinary citizens are actively organizing protests to protect essential services, showcasing the impact of collective action.

• National Security Risks: Mishandling of classified information in unsecured channels poses threats to intelligence operations and international alliances.

• Public Health Concerns: Misguided health policies, such as promoting Vitamin A for measles treatment, have led to harmful health outcomes, highlighting the need for evidence-based approaches.

• Declining Approval Ratings: President Trump's administration is experiencing a substantial decline in public approval, influencing the political dynamics within the Republican Party.

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This episode of The Rachel Maddow Show serves as a critical examination of the Trump administration's policies and their far-reaching implications, emphasizing the pivotal role of citizen activism in safeguarding democratic institutions and public welfare.

Transcript

[Rachel Maddow]

Last year, Americans ate 32 billion chicken wings. Who knows just how many helpless sides of celery were heartlessly thrown away? But this year, celery neglect can stop with you and irresistible Jif peanut butter. Because you can make a snack to make a difference. You can buy a jar of Jif to save the celery. So please don't let celery be decoration for wings. Tap the banner to save the celery.

[Chris Hayes]

This episode is sponsored by E Trade from Morgan Stanley. Dive into the market with E Trade's easy to use tools and now there's even more to love. Get access to expert insights from Morgan Stanley to help navigate the markets. Open an account and get up to $1,000 or more with a qualifying deposit. Learn [e-mail] terms and other fees apply. Investing involves risks. Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC Member SIPIC E Trade is a business of Morgan Stanley.

[Rachel Maddow]

Thanks June Home as well for joining us this hour. You can't leave either. I'm very happy to have you here. Have you met the new political leadership in this country? The people who may not have the title, may not have the plate on the office door or whatever, but these are the people who are actually getting it done. We found them in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

[Lauren Lowry]

I turned 65 on Sunday and I just made a decision. I woke up this morning and said I gotta do something.

[Jericho Tran]

In Grand Rapids Wednesday afternoon, around two dozen people gathered in front of the Social Security Administration office on Knapp street.

[Rachel Maddow]

And East Beltline, trying to bring attention.

[Lauren Lowry]

To what's going on and also supporting the people that are working in there, saying, we appreciate you.

[Jericho Tran]

The crowd, mostly retirees and Social Security recipients.

[Rachel Maddow]

They protested against recent moves by the.

[Jericho Tran]

Trump administration's Department of Government Efficiency, or doge, many of them feeling that access to Social Security benefits and Medicare could be at risk.

[Rachel Maddow]

Well, I am a retiree. I worked for 50 years in all different trades of working and I paid into my Social Security benefits all those years.

[Jericho Tran]

Those protesting tell us they are against the Trump administration's moves to close dozens of SSA field offices across the country, along with eliminating over the phone ID verification starting at the end of this month, requiring people to verify their IDs online only or in person.

[Lauren Lowry]

Let's say you're elderly and you have no way of coming physically to an office that's still open or if you live in a rural area. I mean, it's just ridiculous. They're trying to make it so difficult for people to get their own money back.

[Jericho Tran]

Those protesting also wanting to show support to federal employees, many saying they have been helped by staff at this very location.

[Rachel Maddow]

And I just want them to know we are here to support them for their jobs. New political leadership of this country, the people actually getting it done. You saw them there in Grand Rapids, Michigan, yesterday afternoon. We also found them on the side of the road in Reno, Nevada. About two dozen protesters gathered outside the Social Security office in Reno at noon. They carried signs critical of the Department of Government Efficiency or held signs which expressed their concern about the future of Social Security. Marilyn show has depended upon Social Security for her disabled son and she says.

[Sue Kressley]

She soon wants to start collecting her benefits.

[Rachel Maddow]

Benefits she reminds everyone she paid for. It's an insurance that we've paid into this. We've paid into Social Security for. I've worked since I've been 15. And so gutting it and making it, privatizing it, that is not the answer. Many, many seniors live paycheck to paycheck. And our Social Security only comes in once a month. If they don't have that, check that money in their account. That means they don't get to pay their rent, they don't get to buy food and they don't get to pay their utilities. There would be more people out in the Plenty of car horns honked as drivers passed by the protest. But as one woman told me today, better to shine a light than curse the darkness. The new political leadership of this country. That was the Reno, Nevada division. These are the people who are actually getting it done. And they're everywhere. We also found them in Livonia, Michigan.

[Lauren Lowry]

A rally in Livonia Tuesday bringing out dozens of seniors concerned about Social Security and Medicare.

[Rachel Maddow]

I'm terrified my life would change drastically without Social Security. And that's our money. We put that in. Nobody gave us that money. We loaned it to the government.

[Chris Hayes]

Elon Musk has got to go.

[Lauren Lowry]

Everything that is happening right now is impacting so many people.

[Rachel Maddow]

That's the new political leadership of this country showing up in Livonia, Michigan. We also found them in Nashville, Tennessee. Protesters are pushing back tonight against possible staffing cuts at the National Social Security office. Thanks for joining us tonight at 10. I'm Lauren Lowry. Dozens of people rallied outside the office today. Our Sharon Dankwa has a look at why they say cuts could directly affect them here in the midstate. No closures, no threats.

[Jericho Tran]

Protect ssa.

[Rachel Maddow]

Today we're gathered here not just as individuals but as a community of people who understand the vital role that Social Security plays in so many resources provided in this building.

[Lauren Lowry]

Jennifer Brinkman, Says so many could be taken for granted. I know firsthand how essential these offices.

[Rachel Maddow]

Are, especially this office right here. When my significant other, Greg was diagnosed with cancer, could no longer work, we turned to this office for help.

[Lauren Lowry]

So when she heard the Department of Government Efficiency could cut Social Security Staffing nationwide by 50%, she organized this rally.

[Rachel Maddow]

That was Nashville, Tennessee, you might remember. Last week we also found the new political leadership class in this country holding a political funeral for Social Security at the Social Security office in Gainesville, Georgia. They focused on their their local Republican congressman there. His name is Andrew Clyde. Clyde lies as Social Security diesel. Clyde dozes while Social Security closes. We've also found the new political leadership of this country fanning out to town halls in person, town halls online, town halls, teletown halls anywhere. And anyhow, they can get themselves in front of elected Republicans who are letting Trump take Social Security apart.

[Sue Kressley]

So the question was about Social Security. And what she's accusing me of is standing by while living is being dismantled by Doge.

[Rachel Maddow]

That is absolutely 100% untrue. Absolutely 100% untrue. Doge is not dismantling Social Security. I really want to know from you.

[Sue Kressley]

Will you protect Social Security in its current form?

[Rachel Maddow]

Next question. What are your plans to cut Social Security? I want to be very. This is a very easy question for me to answer. Any changes to Social Security are not on the table and I will not cut your Social Security. It is a promise between you and the federal government.

[Jericho Tran]

Our next question is from polly from.

[Rachel Maddow]

A 288 zip code area. What are you doing to ensure the protection of our Social Security benefits? Good question. Good question. This is regular Americans just pulling it together on their own to save Social Security. That woman in Grand Rapids, Michigan yesterday, saying, I woke up this morning and said I gotta do something. And by afternoon, there she was. And Americans all over the country are waking up every day somewhere having that same feeling. And, and that political leadership from regular Americans is now starting to push over the right dominoes. We are starting to see, for example, stirrings from big powerful groups that at least used to have a lot of sway on issues like this. Groups like aarp.

[Sue Kressley]

AARP is fighting to protect your Social Security. You've worked hard and paid into Social Security with every paycheck your entire working life. But recently we've heard from thousands of worried. That's why we're asking for three assurances right now. One, Social Security will make payments on time like it has for almost 90 years. Two, claims will be processed on time and not backlogged for months. Three, customer service will be a top priority. Getting rid of phone service and asking tens of millions of Americans to jump through new hoops or drive hours to.

[Rachel Maddow]

A local office is deeply unacceptable.

[Sue Kressley]

Join me in sending a loud and clear message to lawmakers. Social Security must be protected. Take action [e-mail] pledge tell lawmakers, it's your money. You've earned it.

[Rachel Maddow]

Hear her say there at the beginning. Recently, we've heard from thousands of worried Americans, hello, aarp. Honestly, by now, I thought you'd have like armored divisions outside the offices of every Social Security office in the country. I thought you would be blanketing the nation with super effective ads and hounding every member of the administration every day up to and including the president. It's kind of what I have come to expect from aarp. We are not seeing anything like that yet from aarp, but they are admitting that thousands of their own numbers are contacting them now and they are showing signs of life. And when you combine that with the real political leadership that we are seeing from regular Americans who just wake up one morning and say, I've got to do something, and then they go do something. Well, you know what? It works. It has an impact. It pushes over one domino that then pushes down another. For example, we had Trump's Social Security nominee have his desultory little confirmation hearing this week in the United States Senate. But at that hearing, you had Republican senators, Republicans asking, hey, wait, how many Social Security offices are you closing? In my state, my constituents are telling me that Social Security service is collapsing. And look, I had my staff confirm it after Trump fired all these people at Social Security. Turns out it now takes hours to get through on the phone. And then even when you've waited on the phone for hours, you get cut off anyway, hey, Social Security nominee from the Trump administration, what's going on here? You got that this week even from Republican senators. You have the top Republicans in the Senate who supposedly oversee Social Security, who until now have been totally silent as Trump has been firing thousands of people from the agency, as his top campaign donor has been given access to all the most sensitive systems at the agency while he publicly calls it a Ponzi scheme that must be shut down as the service has started to palpably collapse. They have been silent and have been doing nothing. But now you've got them having to admit to reporters and whining a little bit about it that maybe they should be in on some of this stuff. For NBC News, quote, Republican Senator Chuck Grassley the chairman of a key Senate subcommittee on Social Security, said he had not been told ahead of time about the Trump administration's moves at the agency. Quote, no, I have not been, Grassley told NBC News. Asked if it would be helpful to his job if he were given a heads up, Grassley repeated, I have not been. I have not been. Republican Senator Steve Daines, a Senate Finance Committee member, said in an interview that he, too, hasn't been in the loop for the Trump administration's changes. Quote, no, we haven't, he said, quote, I haven't had any heads up. Senator Daines said that he would appreciate advance notice about the changes the administration makes to Social Security. He said, quote, I'd like to know about it. Yeah, well, that's something I'd like to know about it. So those are the people in Washington, but it is the leaders of this country. I see you plucky retirees and knitted hats on the side of the road in Reno. I see you after the real leaders of this country, after you guys took the wheel. It has started something. And so now, yes, if you are applying for Medicare or disability or SSI benefits through Social Security, they're no longer planning to mandate that you have to go in person to your local Social Security office, that they're probably closing anyway and or firing most of the staff. And no, they are no longer killing the 1-800-line altogether, which they had previously been planning on doing. And no, they are not forcing through this verify your identity in person change that they were going to force through as of Monday, which would have forced immediately millions of people, millions of older and disabled people to have to go to these offices in person, and they've apparently done no training for it at all. And, oh, by the way, the new system they said they want to put in place doesn't exist, but now they're not going to implement that on Monday. They need a little more time. In no sense has Social Security been saved. This fight is absolutely on, but it is regular Americans who have been fighting against Trump all over the country. Yes, in Washington, but honestly, all over the country. And that's what's made the difference. It is working. It is making a difference. And there is more to do, but it is working. And look, here's another view of America's political and moral leadership at work. This is the protest that sprung up spontaneously and basically instantly yesterday afternoon in Somerville, Massachusetts. Instantly, thousands of people gathered on no notice in the immediate aftermath of a Tufts University student with a valid student visa, a Fulbright Scholar PhD candidate with no criminal record, who had no notice from the government that they believed believed she had done anything wrong, she was nevertheless accosted and snatched off the street by a half dozen federal agents who were covering their faces, who then handcuffed her and stuffed her into an unmarked car. Donald Trump is now claiming the right to do this to anyone. He is making the truly authoritarian claim that if you express an opinion that Donald Trump doesn't like, this is what will happen to you. In this case, it was a student writing an op ed criticizing the war in the Middle East. The Trump administration says that alone is the justification for revoking her student visa, which is insane. But even if signing an op ed were grounds to revoke this young woman's visa, they could just tell her they were revoking her visa, tell her that she therefore needs to leave the country. Instead. They didn't tell her anything. They just sent masked goons to jump her on the street and throw her in an unmarked car and take her away. And that will now be litigated. But the kids at Tufts University and the community there just erupted yesterday, spontaneously. Thousands of people turned out to respond in person. That was yesterday. And then this is Somerville again tonight.

[Jericho Tran]

In the case of the Tufts University student who was suddenly detained by ICE agents near her home in Somerville.

[Rachel Maddow]

We now know why she was able to be transferred to a Louisiana detention center despite a court order to keep her here in Massachusetts. A court filing by the U.S. attorney's office says she had already been moved out of the state by the time that order was issued. NBC10's Jericho Tran joining us live from Somerville, where some of her supporters gathered tonight. Jericho.

[Lauren Lowry]

Well, there's hundreds here today, and I can tell you we are witnessing some very tense moments here outside of Somerville City Hall. There's a city council meeting that's going on right now, and you can see that these hundreds of protesters are trying to make their way inside. Police have stopped them. It looks like there's some sort of fire code violation. Once again, there are hundreds, hundreds of people here. It doesn't look like all of them will be able to fit inside of the building. Of course, all of this happening after Rumesa Osterk's arrest here in Somerville on Tuesday. Federal agents arrested Tufts University student Romesa Ozturk just steps away from the university. Ozturk now waits inside the South Louisiana ICE Processing center, which houses immigrants waiting for legal proceedings or deportations.

[Chris Hayes]

You see it on tv, but when.

[Rachel Maddow]

It hits home, it's a mile away from you and the terror in her face and her voice. It's terrible.

[Lauren Lowry]

The PhD student and Fulbright Scholar maintained a valid F1 visa status. Now that visa has been terminated, the Department of Homeland Security claims Austerk engaged in activities in support of Hamas, with Secretary of State Marco Rubio saying the graduate student presence in the U.S. could have, quote, potentially serious adverse foreign policy consequences and would compromise a compelling US Foreign policy interest.

[Rachel Maddow]

Oh, we revoked her visa.

[Lauren Lowry]

Oz Turk wrote an op ed for the university's paper calling for Tufts to divest from companies directly tied to Israel.

[Rachel Maddow]

If you apply for a visa to enter the United States and be a student, and you tell us that the reason why you're coming to the United States is not just because you want to write op eds, but because you want to participate in movements that are involved in doing things like vandalizing universities, harassing students, taking over buildings, creating a ruckus, we're not going to give you a visa.

[Lauren Lowry]

On Tuesday night, a US District Court judge issued a order blocking the Trump administration from removing Ozturk from the state of Massachusetts without 48 hours notice. The US Attorney's office suggests that Austerk may have been moved before the court's involvement, offering to provide a timeline of Austerk's arrest and transfer from Massachusetts.

[Rachel Maddow]

Our neighborhoods are not safe, right? The people around us aren't safe.

[Lauren Lowry]

And you can hear those chants live right now. They're asking police to let them in once again. You can see them kind of barricading the doors. They have let some of these ralliers in, but it doesn't look like they're letting everybody in right now. This is one of several protests. We were at a protest yesterday. We were at two of them today. This is one of them. That city council meeting here in Somerville is happening as we speak. We'll have more on that for you later. That's the very latest here in Somerville.

[Rachel Maddow]

Jericho Tran, NBC10 Boston that's happening tonight in Massachusetts. Also in Massachusetts, at Harvard University, we've just got word that Trump has apparently also grabbed a Russian scientist, a young woman who works at Harvard Medical School. She had been forced to leave Russia because she spoke out and criticized Putin's invasion of Ukraine. Now Trump has had her arrested in the United States, has had her locked up in an ICE detention facility in Louisiana, and is threatening to ship her back to Russia. Again, a Harvard Medical school scientist, a GoFundMe has been started to help her legal defense at the University of Alabama. It is a mechanical engineering doctoral student who has been Taken. He's Iranian in this case. Nobody seems to know why he has been taken. They've reportedly got him in a county jail in Alabama right now, but again, we don't know why. College Democrats. So the University of Alabama are protesting his arrest. There's also a GoFundMe that's been set up to help his legal defense as well. How does the American people like all of this? How does the American population feel about how things are turning out with Donald Trump being back in the White House? Given that this is sort of the daily news now, new polling from Gallup just out today shows that there is no issue on which the American people like what Trump is doing. His disapproval ratings are higher than his approval ratings on everything. He is 18 points underwater on his handling of the economy. He has 19 points underwater on his relations with Russia. He's underwater on his handling of the federal budget, on energy policy, on foreign affairs, on the Ukraine, war, on the environment, on even his relations with the dreaded news media. He is underwater on every single thing. New polling in the great state of Texas today shows that Trump's favorability rating in Texas has dropped 15 points since the election in November. He is now underwater, specifically in Texas, and dropping like a stone. Today, Donald Trump polled the nomination of Congresswoman Elise Stefanik to be his new ambassador to the United Nations. So congratulations to the United Nations. But Trump admitted the reason why he pulled her nomination. He said the reason he pulled her nomination is because they don't want her to leave her seat in the House because the Republican majority is so thin. Now, if Elise Stefanik had left her seat in the House and become UN Ambassador, which was the original plan, they would just hold an election to put somebody else in that seat. Right. If another Republican was going to replace her in the House, of course, it wouldn't affect the size of their majority at all. But you want to know why they pulled that nomination today? They pulled that nomination today clearly because they were worried that another Republican would not replace Elise Stefanik. That if they had to hold an election for that seat, they were worried they were going to lose it and that a Democrat was going to flip that seat. Elise Stefanik won that seat in November by 24 points. 24 points. Right now with what Trump is doing as president, right now, with how the Republicans are performing with Trump as President Right now, 24 points is not a comfortable enough margin for Republicans, given how hard the country is swinging back against them. 24 points in November looks like it might be a blue seat right about now, the real political leaders of this country are the people who are willing to get up in the morning and go do something. They're doing it, and in many ways, they are winning. Stay with us.

[Chris Hayes]

This episode is sponsored by E Trade from Morgan Stanley. Dive into the market with E Trade's easy to use tools and now there's even more to love. Get access to expert insights from Morgan Stanley to help navigate the markets. Open an account and get up to $1,000 or more with a qualifying deposit. Learn more@e trade.com terms and other fees apply. Investing involves risks. Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC Member SIPIC E Trade is a business of Morgan Stanley.

[Rachel Maddow]

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[Lauren Lowry]

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[Rachel Maddow]

For whatever happens next, grab Kleenex. Let's face it, after a night with drinks, even just a couple, it can be hard to bounce back the next day to wake up feeling fresh. There's Zebiotics Pre Alcohol Probiotic drink, a probiotic invented by PhD scientists to break down the toxic byproduct of alcohol. Just make Zebiotics your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly and you'll feel your best tomorrow. Get 15% off your first order at zbiotics.com pod15 and use pod15 at checkout. We just talked a little bit about what's going on in public polling right now in terms of how the American people are feeling about the Trump administration and President Trump this far into his second term. Here's a little bit more on a specific subject. YouGov asked Americans how serious a problem they think it is that a whole bunch of senior Trump administration officials shared military plans in a group chat on a commercial messaging app, which accidentally included a journalist, even though they didn't notice he was part of the chat. The proportion of Americans who say this is a, quote, very serious or somewhat serious problem is nearly three quarters of respondents, 74% of the country. The percentage of people who say that's no big deal is only 13%. This scandal is a serious problem, even according to 60% of Republicans on the long List of things that are dumb and bad and potentially illegal about sharing imminent military attack plans on a messaging app with a large group where you don't know who's even on there. There is the matter of Trump's national security adviser setting those group chat messages to disappear. You can do that on the signal app. And some of the messages were set to disappear four weeks after they were sent. Others were set to disappear after just one week, which might mean that some of them are already gone. The reason that's a problem is that there are real laws that get enforced about preserving federal records which belong to the American people. The vice president and Cabinet secretaries and the White House chief of staff discussing imminent military strikes definitely counts as a federal record. Even if you do it in a chat app, and it therefore must be preserved. You can't set it to disappear. The government transparency group, American Oversight filed a lawsuit on that part of this story today. In that case, a federal judge ordered multiple Trump Cabinet officials that they must preserve those signal messages. Then there's the fact that at least one member of the group chat, Trump's real estate friend, who says he's now very, very personally close with Vladimir Putin. They have a really, really intense, emotional, personal friendship. Steve Witkoff has now confirmed publicly, I think, kind of despite himself, I think he sort of accidentally confirmed publicly that he participated in this group chat, but on his personal cell phone, not on a government issued device. Now, that matters because personal devices generally have much less robust cyber protections against things like spyware, which raises a whole new level of security concerns about this separate and apart from what they were discussing here. If these guys are doing sensitive, potentially classified government business on their personal devices, if their personal devices have been compromised, then it doesn't matter like what the encryption level is of the app that they're using. If their personal devices have been compromised, it's possible that any sort of bad actor might have access to every single thing they type or see on their phone. Now, we know that at least one of them was participating in this signal chat about imminent military attack plans on his personal phone. How many of the rest of you were doing that? What they were discussing, though, turns out to be the really big problem in terms of what specifically these guys were blurting out in this insecure group chat after the operation. They had been discussing these airstrikes in Yemen. After that was over, Trump national security Adviser Mike Waltz wrote this in the chat. He said, quote, the first target, their top missile guy, we had positive ID of him walking into his girlfriend's building and it is now collapsed. Well, the Wall Street Journal reports today that that positive ID of the guy they were targeting, that was, according to the Wall Street Journal, sensitive intelligence from a human source in Yemen, intelligence that had been provided to the United States by Israel. In other words, Israel had a source on the ground feeding them very specific information in real time. And Mike Waltz referenced that information in a way that effectively described the source in this group chat on a commercial app. According to one U.S. official, quote, Israeli officials complained privately to U.S. officials that Waltz's texts became public. Israel's role in supplying information that helped track the militant highlights the sensitivity of some disclosures in the texts and raises questions about the Trump administration's contention that no classified information was shared on the signal chat. The identity of a person in Yemen who was supplying information in real time about the strikes would likely be carefully protected. Yeah, you think? These guys may not get it, but the American people seem to. I mean, three quarters of Americans say this seems like a really serious problem. Anybody can see that this is not stuff you should be texting about with a large group, right? Or maybe texting about at all. I guess not these guys. Joining us now is one of the authors of this Wall Street Journal scoop. Alexander Ward is a Wall Street Journal national security reporter. He's author of the book the the Fight to Restore American Foreign policy after Trump. Mr. Ward, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.

[Jericho Tran]

Yeah, thanks for having me.

[Rachel Maddow]

Let me just ask you if I got the basics right there about your reporting here. Mike Walts didn't describe like the name of the source, but he did describe with some specificity the type of information this source was able to provide. That's what Israeli officials are worried about.

[Jericho Tran]

Right? So we should note that this information was provided in real time. Right. If you look at those texts on Signal, you saw that Pete Hegseth, the Defense Secretary, was saying, you know, planes in the air, bombs are going to happen at this time. And then Waltz chimes in and goes, hey, we effectively have an assessment here. We've seen that one of these people we were tracking, one of this Houthi top missile man went into his girlfriend friend's house and we've seen it destroyed. And this was a positive ID that they ID'd this person going into the building. And it's unclear if id'd afterwards. But point is, that's real time information, right? And that was provided by the Israelis to the US and we should note the US has other ways to positive id. Waltz does say in Those texts, you know, There were multiple IDs, so it's not like it was wholly reliant on Israeli intelligence. But it's fair to say that Israeli intelligence provided to the U.S. informed, at a minimum, the text that Mike Waltz put into Signal, which, of course, as you said, is a publicly available non governmental app on what seemed to be unclassified networks.

[Rachel Maddow]

Now, everything that I know about spying, I've basically learned from, like, Len Dayton novels. Like, I don't really. Like, I don't know who am I? I'm just a person who reads the news. Like, I have no expertise in this other than spy movies and spy novels. But it seems to me like when we talk about protecting sources and methods, this is kind of almost an elementary school level case study, because you can infer from that statement from Mike Waltz, which went to this large group and a commercial app, that somebody has a source on the ground in the capital of Yemen who can see that apartment building and who can also communicate to some intelligence service somewhere in the world what he or she is seeing at that building and what the physical consequences have been of the strike that are being described. I mean, that seems to me like for anybody in Sana'a who's trying to figure out who that source is or what they have to worry about in their network, they've now been essentially given a template to find that person.

[Jericho Tran]

Yeah, at a minimum, there are now Houthi operatives who know that there could be a spy among them or. Or within their networks more generally. Now, whether they learned that from our reporting or whether there was a way they could see that information from the. If the SIGNAL chat was spied on and released to the Houthis, I doubt that that was the case, to be honest. But who's to say? The point is, we don't know. But the possibility exists because it was put on signal, which is the point here. Right. These kinds of conversations should be happening in secure facilities in the Pentagon, in the situation Room, or as government officials, high level government officials are provided skiffs or other kinds of communications tool in order to have these conversations at home. Or, you know, if they have to, they have to leave their families at home, go into their government buildings, go into the secure facility and have these kinds of conversations on weekends, late nights. It's not efficient or ideal, but it's how you protect these secrets. And so, sure, it is more efficient to put this kind of stuff on Signal. You can do that, but you do open yourself up to the possibility that that becomes public or is intercepted in some way by adversaries. Does that mean it's likely? I can't say that with any sense of certainty, but I can say it's definitely not zero percent. Right. And so this is the issue now is of course, now it's out in public in our story. But at a minimum, one could assume that that intelligence went in there and if it were to somehow some way make it to the intended targets, they would go, ah, there is a spy among us.

[Rachel Maddow]

Right. Mr. Ward, briefly, one of the things that we hear about in intelligence reporting is that our allies with whom we share intelligence may be likely to do so in the future if they feel that we in the United States are mishandling it or handling it in a way that is cavalier. Briefly, do you have any sense that that risk is essentially coming to fruition right now either with Israel or other allies based on this scandal?

[Jericho Tran]

Well, we have heard even before this, right, just because of President Trump's own views on the war in Ukraine and is talking to Russia because of Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard and her views on Syria and Russia and others, there has just been some hesitation about sharing as much intelligence as before with the United States. You can imagine after this now there'll be even more pots. Now, whether that actually leads to a slowdown of intelligence sharing, I don't know. I haven't seen any direct evidence at the moment. But I have heard from foreign officials who are already wary of providing as much intel, as much in depth intel to the US as before. And I can't imagine that this episode helps.

[Rachel Maddow]

Wow. Alexander Ward, national security reporter at the Wall Street Journal. This is really, really interesting and important reporting. Thank you for helping us understand.

[Jericho Tran]

Thanks for having me.

[Rachel Maddow]

All right, more news ahead. Stay with us. What's poppin listeners? I'm Laci Mosley, host of the podcast Scam Goddess, the show that's an ode to fraud and all those who practice it. Each week I talk with very special guests about the scammiest scammers of all time. Wanna know about the fake errors? We got em. What about a career con man?

[Lauren Lowry]

We've got them too, guys that will.

[Rachel Maddow]

Wine and dine you and then steal all your coins. Oh, you are represented because representation matters. I'm joined by guests like Nicole byer, Ira Madison III, Conan O'Brien and more. Join the congregation and listen to Scam Goddess wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chris Hayes]

This episode is sponsored by E Trade from Morgan Stanley. Dive into the market with E Trade's easy to use tools. And now there's even more to love. Get access to expert insights from Morgan Stanley to help navigate the market. Open an account and get up to $1,000 or more with a qualifying deposit. Learn [e-mail] terms and other fees apply. Investing involves risks. Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC Member SIPIC E Trade is the business of Morgan.

[Rachel Maddow]

Stanley did you know 39% of teen drivers admit to texting while driving. Even scarier, those who text are more likely to speed and run red lights. Shockingly, 94% know it's dangerous, but do it anyway. As a parent, you can't always be in the car, but you can stay connected to their safety with Greenlight Infinity's driving report. Monitor their driving habits, see if they're using their phone, speeding and more. These reports provide real data for meaningful conversations about safety. Plus, with weekly updates, you can track their progress over time. Help keep your teens safe. Sign up for Greenlight [e-mail] podcast so this story we covered last night got a really big reaction. The story is developing further today, so tonight we wanted to go back to it and also bring in a little expert perspective on what's going on here. Just in part because we got such a strong reaction from you guys, from our viewers, when we covered this last night. Here's the headline we showed you last night. Quote Remedy supported by Kennedy leaves some measles patients more ill Parents in Gaines County, Texas, the center of a raging measles outbreak, have increasingly turned to supplements and unproven treatments to protect their children, many of whom are unvaccinated. One of those supplements is cod liver oil containing vitamin A, which Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Donald Trump's health secretary, has promoted in the media as a near miraculous cure for measles. Physicians at Covenant Children's Hospital in Lubbock, Texas, say they've now treated unvaccinated children who were given so much vitamin A that they had signs of liver damage. The nation's health secretary promoting vitamin A as a miracle cure for measles is a problem for a few reasons. Vitamin A, unlike some other vitamins, is not something that you can flush out of your body by peeing it out. Forgive me. Vitamin A is a vitamin that doesn't get processed through your body that way. It stays in your body, gets stored in your body fat, and high doses of it can damage your liver or worse. I mean, they can put you in a coma. Beyond that, the dangerousness of overdosing on vitamin A. It's also the case that vitamin A supplements just don't work to protect you from measles. I mean, if you don't have enough vitamin A and you catch the measles, then a doctor might give it to you for what they call supportive care. That happens mainly in countries where kids are malnourished. But here, less than 1% of the American population is deficient in vitamin A. So adding tons of extra vitamin A basically is only just harmful. Despite that, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. In his role as America's Health and Human Services secretary, has repeatedly in the media promoted vitamin A and other supplements for treating the measles while this measles outbreak is spreading across big parts of this country. And now, thanks to him, kids in West Texas are showing up at the hospital with signs of liver damage from taking vitamin A. This week, the communications director at the cdc, man named Kevin Griffiths, said he resigned from the CDC in part because of this type of irresponsibility. In an op ed for The Washington Post, Mr. Griffiths wrote this quote, instead of seeking guidance about how to combat the measles outbreak in Texas and New Mexico from the world leading epidemiologists and virologists he oversees, Kennedy is listening to fringe voices who reinforce his personal beliefs. Kennedy has promoted unproven treatments for measles. He suggested distributing vitamin A, which does not prevent measles. Meanwhile, Griffiths says, in my final weeks at the cdc, I watched as career infectious disease experts were tasked with spending precious hours searching medical literature in vain for data to support Kennedy's preferred treatments. Quote, all this misdirection is a waste of federal dollars that will do nothing to control the outbreak. It also could cost lives. President of the American Academy of Pediatrics is going to join us here on this live next. The measles outbreak that began in West Texas now includes more than 400 measles cases in multiple states. And as that outbreak continues to spread, kids in West Texas are now starting to show up in hospitals with signs of liver damage from taking too much vitamin A. Vitamin A neither cures nor prevents measles. It is vaccination that prevents measles. But the Trump administration, administration's health secretary, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Has been promoting vitamin A as a miraculous measles treatment. Sue Kressley is the president of the American Academy of Pediatrics. She says in a statement, quote, in fact, relying on vitamin A instead of the vaccine is not only dangerous and ineffective, but it puts children at serious risk. Taking too much vitamin A can cause serious health problems, including liver damage. Joining us now is Dr. Sue Kressley. She's president of the American Academy of Pediatrics, Dr. Kressley. It is a real honor to have some time with you tonight. Thank you for being here.

[Sue Kressley]

It's a pleasure to be here.

[Rachel Maddow]

Can you tell me about the dangerousness of vitamin A? I don't think we're used to thinking of vitamins as having any potential negative effects, but these reports from Texas about kids turning up in the hospital having taken way too much vitamin A and it being harmful to them are alarming. Can you just tell us medically what that means?

[Sue Kressley]

Yeah. But first I'd like to say, Rachel, that the single most important message that your audience should hear, and I can't overemphasize this is the only way out of this measles epidemic is through vaccination and the measles vaccine is safe and effective. And I want to reiterate that there's a difference between preventing measles and the only way we can prevent measles is through vaccination and how we support patients, patients and families and children who have measles. And that is supportive care. There is no cure for measles. There is supportive care, just like there is for other viruses and other viral illnesses. That includes taking appropriate dosing of medications like fever reducers. And so vitamin A in patients in the right dose in consultation with a healthcare provider can help mitigate in some patients the seriousness of the measles virus. But it will not prevent the measles virus. It will not prevent you from getting sick. And too much of any medication and vitamin A is a medication, can be dangerous and make children and patients sick, as we're seeing in Texas now.

[Rachel Maddow]

And that's true whether or not people are finding supplements themselves, taking cod liver oil, otherwise trying to sort of gin up their own treatment regime based on things they're getting in the media. There isn't some safe way to administer the kinds of doses that the health secretary is talking about.

[Sue Kressley]

No. It should be done in consultation with a trusted medical provider. So the appropriate dosing and it's weight based dosing. And it's also important for your healthcare provider to understand any underlying illnesses because that may impact whether vitamin A is actually appropriate for your care.

[Rachel Maddow]

Let's talk about vaccination. You say it is a safe and effective vaccine. Secretary Kennedy has been among the loudest voices who has been assailing the measles vaccine, talking about it as dangerous and causing injuries and being implicated in all sorts of nefarious things. When you describe it as safe and effective, can you tell us A little bit about the track record of the measles vaccine, both in terms of how effective it is at preventing measles, but also how we know that it's safe and how long it's been used safely in the United States.

[Sue Kressley]

So I don't have the exact year when measles vaccine came out, but I can tell you that I was in training and saw a measles outbreak in Philadelphia and it's been around for a long time and it has shown over studies over time that it is safe. We know that two doses of vaccine given at the appropriate intervals are 97% effective in preventing measles. Nothing is 100% effective, which is why we count on community immunity and as many people to get vaccinated as possible. And Rachel, I do believe that parents really deserve accurate, factual information that strengthens their confidence in vaccines from all of our leaders. And they don't need any undue anxiety or worry about distracting information. We should be strengthening their confidence so that we can get on top of this outbreak.

[Rachel Maddow]

Yeah. Anytime there's a measles outbreak, it should be an all hands on deck vaccination effort for everybody who is at risk. Dr. Sue Kressley, President of the American Academy of Pediatrics, it is an honor to have you here on our show tonight. Thank you for taking time. Doctor.

[Sue Kressley]

Thank you for having me.

[Rachel Maddow]

We'll be right back. Stay with us. Remember when Lawrence said he was going away on vacation for a week and a day and I got all mad? It has been longer than a week and a day and he's still gone. But it turns out that's because he got an infection while he was away. So that's why we haven't seen him back yet. He is fighting it off. He says he's gonna be fine. I was texting with him about it just last night. But that is why we do not expect him back until next week. Don't worry, he's gonna be fine. It's just a thing.

[Chris Hayes]

This episode is sponsored by E Trade from Morgan Stanley. Dive into the market with E Trade's easy to use tools. And now there's even more to love. Get access to expert insights from Morgan Stanley to help navigate the markets. Open an account and get up to $1,000 or more with a qualifying deposit. Learn [e-mail] terms and other fees apply. Investing involves risks. Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC Member SIPIC E Trade is a business of Morgan Stanley.