Better for the billionaires: Rachel Maddow shows how Donald Trump is ushering in a new era of oligarchy

Summary

Summary of The Rachel Maddow Show Episode: "Better for the Billionaires: Rachel Maddow shows how Donald Trump is ushering in a new era of oligarchy" (Released December 17, 2024)

The Rachel Maddow Show delves into the alarming trend of increasing oligarchic influence within the United States, focusing on how former President Donald Trump’s actions and appointments are favoring billionaires and consolidating power among a select elite. This shift poses significant threats to democratic principles, public accountability, and the welfare of ordinary citizens.

Trump's Oligarchic Agenda and Tesla's Self-Driving Controversies

The episode opens with Rachel Maddow highlighting recent incidents involving Tesla’s Full Self-Driving (FSD) Beta, which have led to multiple accidents. A notable incident occurred on Thanksgiving Day 2022, where a Tesla in FSD mode was involved in a multi-car crash on the Bay Bridge, injuring nine individuals ([05:26] Timothy Snyder; [07:14] Ryan Reynolds). These accidents raised significant concerns regarding the safety and regulation of autonomous vehicles, prompting investigations by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA).

Despite these safety concerns, the incoming Trump administration is reportedly seeking to dismantle crucial crash reporting rules. Maddow points out that the Trump transition team aims to "scrap car crash reporting rule" ([14:24] Anthony Romero; [14:24] Ryan Reynolds), which would impede the government's ability to monitor and regulate the efficacy and safety of self-driving systems effectively.

Oligarchic Influence in Government Appointments

Maddow further examines Trump's strategic appointments within his transition team and potential administration. The episode reveals that Trump’s picks for key positions, such as the Secretary of Commerce, are heavily tied to billionaire interests and companies under federal investigation. For instance, Howard Lutnick, the co-chair of the Trump transition team, is linked to a cryptocurrency firm under criminal investigation for alleged ties to terrorist organizations like Hamas and state-run entities like North Korea ([07:14] Ryan Reynolds).

These appointments are designed to benefit oligarchs while sidelining the needs of ordinary citizens, effectively creating a government "that only works for [the oligarchs’] purposes." This consolidation of power among the wealthy elite threatens governmental integrity and public trust.

Expert Insights from Timothy Snyder on Oligarchy and Democratic Erosion

Rachel Maddow hosts Yale University historian Timothy Snyder, author of influential works on tyranny and freedom, to discuss the broader implications of oligarchic consolidation. Snyder underscores the historical precedence of oligarchies weakening democracies, noting that "[o]ligarchs will always have more in common, and they will always be more affectionate and loyal towards oligarchs in other countries" ([33:48] Timothy Snyder).

He elaborates on the current situation in the U.S., comparing it to models observed in other nations where wealthy elites manipulate governmental structures to prioritize their interests over the public good. Snyder advocates for proactive measures such as establishing a "shadow cabinet" composed of credible and positive alternatives to monitor and counterbalance oligarchic influences ([34:11] Ryan Reynolds).

ACLU's Strategy to Defend Civil Liberties with Anthony Romero

In conversation with Anthony Romero, Executive Director of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), Maddow explores the organization's strategies to combat the anticipated aggressive policies of the Trump administration. Romero explains that the ACLU has been preparing for potential threats, such as mass deportations and the dismantling of civil liberties, by planning comprehensive litigation and supporting legal defenses against governmental overreach ([43:25] Anthony Romero).

Romero also highlights the importance of local governments and officials in resisting federal abuses. The ACLU is organizing efforts to empower mayors and governors to sever harmful federal collaborations and protect immigrants from unjust deportations, ensuring that local actions can mitigate the impact of national oligarchic policies ([45:24] Anthony Romero).

Republican Impeachment Efforts and Media Silence

Another significant segment discusses the Republican-led impeachment efforts against President Biden, which have collapsed spectacularly. Rachel Maddow critiques the Republican strategy of using false allegations, such as the unfounded claims of bribery involving President Biden and his son Hunter, which have been discredited when the main witness, an FBI informant, pled guilty to lying ([49:43] Ryan Reynolds; [49:43] Rachel Maddow).

Despite these failures, Republican leaders like Chuck Grassley continue to propagate these baseless accusations, demonstrating the entrenched oligarchic mindset that prioritizes political gains over factual integrity. Maddow underscores the media's role in not adequately covering these debacles, allowing such efforts to fester without proper public scrutiny.

Conclusions: The Threat of Oligarchy and Steps for Resistance

In her concluding remarks, Rachel Maddow ties together the themes of oligarchic dominance, regulatory dismantling, and erosion of democratic norms under Trump's influence. She stresses the importance of awareness, historical context, and proactive measures to prevent the U.S. from sliding into an oligarchic system that prioritizes the interests of a wealthy few over the welfare of the many.

Maddow encourages listeners to stay informed, support organizations like the ACLU, and engage in civic actions that uphold democratic values and resist the consolidation of power among billionaires and their allies.

Notable Quotes

• Timothy Snyder ([33:48]): "Oligarchs will always have more in common, and they will always be more affectionate and loyal towards oligarchs in other countries."

• Anthony Romero ([43:25]): "We've been planning for almost a year. We were anticipating the possibility that he would win this election."

• Ryan Reynolds ([14:24]): "Tesla accounted for 40 out of the 45 crashes reported to the agency through October 15th."

Key Takeaways

1. Oligarchic Consolidation: Trump's administration is actively promoting policies and appointments that favor billionaires, undermining democratic accountability.

2. Regulatory Rollbacks: Efforts to dismantle crash reporting rules hinder the effective regulation of autonomous vehicles, posing public safety risks.

3. Strategic Appointments: Appointing individuals with significant financial and political ties to oligarchic interests compromises government integrity.

4. Expert Analysis: Historians like Timothy Snyder emphasize the historical dangers of oligarchies and advocate for measures to counteract their influence.

5. ACLU's Defense Efforts: Organizations like the ACLU are gearing up to defend civil liberties against anticipated governmental overreach.

6. Media Accountability: The lack of media coverage on failed impeachment efforts allows oligarchic strategies to persist unchallenged.

The Rachel Maddow Show serves as a critical examination of the shifting power dynamics in the U.S., urging listeners to remain vigilant and proactive in safeguarding democratic institutions against oligarchic threats.

Transcript

[International Rescue Committee Representative]

For more than 90 years when crises strike from war and violence to floods and famine, the International Rescue Committee has been there helping displaced families survive, recover and rebuild. The IRC responds within 72 hours of an emergency and stays as long as needed, providing humanitarian aid to millions of families. Right now in crisis stricken places like Gaza, Lebanon, Afghanistan and Ukraine, severe winter weather is putting displaced families at even greater risk. Many makeshift camps can't withstand the extreme cold. Some people live without reliable electricity, while others can't afford the fuel to heat their homes. Pregnant women, children, the elderly and people with disabilities are especially vulnerable. Your tax deductible donations can help the IRC provide critical resources emergency food, clean water, shelter, fuel, medicine, blankets, winter gear and cash assistance you can give confidently because the IRC is consistently awarded top marks by charity watchdog groups for their efficient use of donor contributions. Donate today by visiting rescue.orgrebuild that's rescue.orgrebuild.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. With the price of just about everything going up during inflation, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, which is apparently a thing Mint Mobile Unlimited Premium Wireless better to get 3030 better get 30 better get 202020 better get 2020 better to get 15 15, 15 15. Just 15 bucks a month.

[International Rescue Committee Representative]

Sold.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch $45 upf.

[Rachel Maddow]

To $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only taxes and fees, extra Speed slower above 40 gigabytes Detail.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Hey everyone, it's Rachel Maddow. Here's a new thing and I think this is smart. I've done a whole bunch of podcasts for msnbc and my podcasts are not sitting around chatting about the news of the day style podcasts. They are stories. They're long form, original, occasionally award winning original series. And now there is an easy place to get all of them. A permanent home where you can find them. It's a new podcast feed that we've set up that's just called Rachel Maddow Presents. So the whole catalog of all the podcasts I've done is there and it's all free. So if you want to say binge the entire Bagman series about a crook in the White House, you can do that at the Rachel Maddow Presents podcast feed. The fact of the matter was he was a crook. You can also binge both seasons of Ultra. And hey, let's face it, that remains disturbingly topical.

[Timothy Snyder]

He actually says outright, I intend to overthrow the US Government. He's open about these objectives and his supporters are armed and ready.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Bagman Ultra Every episode of Deja News, all of them are all waiting for you on this new podcast feed. Again, it's called Rachel Maddow Presents. That's also where we'll put our new podcasts when they come out. We're working on a new one right now. Search for Rachel Maddow Presents and follow to listen to the entire catalog completely free or subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for ad free listening. Thanks Shu at Home for joining us. Ashar. Really happy to have you here. So speaking of the holidays, two years ago on Thanksgiving Day, so Thanksgiving Day 2022, the leader of one of the world's highest profile car companies made a surprise Thanksgiving Day announcement. He told people who owned his company's cars that as of that day they no longer had to drive their cars. Starting that day, Thanksgiving Day, the cars would be able to drive themselves from here on out. Tesla Full self driving Beta is now available to anyone in North America who requests it from their car screen. Assuming you have bought this option, congratulations to Tesla Autopilot AI team on achieving a major milestone. So this is two years ago again, 2022, Thanksgiving Day. Not really any warning this was coming. Just hey, hey, if you bought a Tesla, you had the option when you bought it to pay a little bit extra so it would be capable of driving itself someday if that day ever came. Well, that day has come. Happy Thanksgiving. So Tesla, like lots of cars now, they send software updates over the air to their cars. So your car gets its operating system updated while it's parked in your driveway. What the company's CEO was announcing that day in 2022 was, hey, while you've been inside enjoying turkey and stuffing and I don't know, six to eight glasses of wine with your family. Lucky you. Your car out there in the driveway has just been upgraded to one that can drive its. So if you want, feel free to give it a go. Just click the switch on the, you know, the screen on your dashboard and the car henceforth will drive you wherever you want to go. It was Thanksgiving Day. The company CEO put out that announcement. Within a few hours it had led to some News. Now at 5, 16 people including 8 kids were part of a multi car crash on the Bay Bridge causing some major traffic tie ups. They say it happened so fast, a chain reaction crash eastbound on the Bay.

[Timothy Snyder]

Bridge and inside the Yerba Buena Tunnel.

[Anthony Romero]

I thought I was a goner at.

[Ryan Reynolds]

First when it happened.

[Anthony Romero]

I mean you see something like that it's like coming towards you at full speed.

[Timothy Snyder]

I thought, well, this is it.

[Ryan Reynolds]

So that was Thanksgiving Day 2022. Just a few months later, the news outlet the Intercept obtained video that showed that accident as it happened. It turns out it was a Tesla whose owner says the car was in full self driving mode. And the car just randomly braked super hard in the middle of the tunnel, which is what started that huge pileup of cars in the tunnel, the one that injured all those people.

[Timothy Snyder]

Until today, we only saw the aftermath of the chain reaction crash last Thanksgiving Day. Drive by video of cars stacked up in the Yerba Buena Tunnel, eastbound on the Bay Bridge and a traffic jam that lasted hours. But Bay Bridge surveillance video now shows how it started. A 76 year old lawyer from San Francisco told the chp his white 2021.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Tesla Model S was in full self.

[Timothy Snyder]

Driving mode when it suddenly deployed the brakes. A total of eight vehicles crashed, nine people injured, including a two year old boy. Just hours before the crash, Tesla CEO Elon Musk announced the launch of the full self driving beta version, which he called a major milestone. But there are a growing reports of the Tesla technology unexpectedly slamming on the brakes. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration assigned a special crash investigation team to look into what happened. They're already investigating dozens of incidents involving advanced driver assistance systems from Volvos, Cadillacs, Hyundai, Genesis and Cruise.

[Ryan Reynolds]

But mostly Tesla, mostly Teslas. And you know, car crashes happen. We humans aren't all that great at avoiding the problem of hurting and killing ourselves and each other with our cars. Car crashes are a plague. And who among us can say whether robots might be better at driving than us overall writ large. But in a country with more than 280 million cars and trucks on the road, clearly it's worth studying if we're going to make this change right. It's worth studying whether letting robots drive our cars is going to be more or less safe than having us humans drive the cars. Well, the US Government is doing that, studying. You saw a reference in that news report there to the National Highway Traffic, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration looking into that particular crash and others like it. Well, the year before that big Thanksgiving Day crash in the Bay Area, that government agency started a program where car companies have to report when crashes happen while a car has been in autopilot or in full self driving mode. They have to tell the government when that happens. So that means crashes like that one that happened in the tunnel in 2022 in the San Francisco Bay Area. Also from this other terrible crash that was right nearby in Contra Costa county in California the following year. This was a fire truck that got slammed into at speed by a Tesla that was on autopilot. The Tesla driver was killed. Four firefighters were sent to the hospital in that crash. Earlier this year, the agency released its report on its findings. After collecting all of this data for several years, it led to headlines like this quote, Tesla's autopilot and full self driving linked to hundreds of crashes and dozens of deaths. Government report described the data about these hundreds of crashes, but it also gave the specific details of some of them, including one particularly harrowing one from North Carolina. A 10th grader stepped off of a school bus. School bus was doing everything right. It was pulled over, it had its lights flashing, had all the warning signals that a school bus activates when it's letting off students to let everybody know around there that they need to stop. School bus was doing everything right. The kid was doing everything right. But a 2022 Model Y Tesla on autopilot mode nevertheless whipped around the stopped school bus and slammed into this kid. This 10th grader had to be medevaced to the hospital with life threatening injuries. By the time that government report was issued, not only had individual crashes like that received a lot of local attention in the areas where they happened, but the overall problem was starting to come into focus. Reuters, for example, had already reported that a criminal investigation into these matters was underway targeting Tesla. Tesla had already disclosed in an SEC filing that it had received federal subpoenas for information about its full self driving mode and its autopilot mode. Then just a few weeks ago, the government announced the opening of a formal federal investigation of Tesla's full self driving mode in more than 2 million Teslas, more than 2 million cars. And that's a big deal. But you might have noticed that I said that report happened a few weeks ago, to be specific. That happened. The announcement of that federal investigation, that big, potentially very consequential federal investigation, the announcement of that happened in mid October. Hmm. What's happened between mid October and now, hmm. Since then? You might have seen that Tesla's CEO Elon Musk has basically had himself surgically attached to Donald Trump's body. I mean, seriously, are they stitched together? Can either one of them get dressed alone at this point? And of course, Donald Trump won the presidential election last month. And so what happens now to anybody who is unsettled by the idea of a robot controlled car driving itself into a nearby fire engine full of firefighters, or a robot controlled car slamming on its brakes without warning in the middle of a crowded tunnel full of cars going 55 miles an hour while people are all driving to go see family on Thanksgiving Day. What happens? Anybody who might have those kinds of concerns? Reuters headline quote, exclusive Trump team wants to scrap car crash reporting rule. The Trump transition has apparently surveyed the landscape of public policy in the United States of America and has decided, eh, you know, what really needs to go. What needs to go as a matter of priority is this thing that we've had for a few years now where car companies have to report it when their car is on autopilot and it crashes into something. That's the new priority, apparently. Quote, the Trump transition team wants the incoming administration to drop a car crash reporting requirement opposed by Elon Musk's Tesla, a move that could cripple the government's ability to investigate and regulate the safety of vehicles with automated driving systems. Musk, the world's richest person, spent more than a quarter of a billion dollars helping Trump get elected president in November. Removing the crash disclosure provision would particularly benefit Tesla, which has most of the crashes, more than 1,500 of them, to federal safety regulators. Under this program, Tesla has been targeted in National Highway Traffic Safety Administration investigations, including three stemming from this specific data. Now what is the purported justification for getting rid of this rule and getting rid of it now? I mean, they can't just say, well, you know, this guy paid for the presidential election, therefore he kind of bought himself a government and so he gets what he wants, right? You can't really just say that. Hey, you kids getting off school buses, watch yourself. Unless and until you can start paying for your own president, you're fair game on the side of the road. I mean, you just, you can't, you can't say it that way. So how do you, they have to say something that sounds better than that. Well, this is what they came up with. The recommendation to kill the crash reporting rule came from a transition team tasked with producing a 100 day strategy for automotive policy. The group called the measure a mandate for, quote, excessive data collection. Oh, oh, excessive data collection. That's the problem that needs to be addressed here in this photo. Excessive data collection. We have way too much data. Our thumb drives are all full. If we keep collecting all this data about self driving cars killing people, eventually our phones will slow down or something. Too much data clogging everything up. Excessive data collection.

[Anthony Romero]

Quote.

[Ryan Reynolds]

A Reuters analysis of the NHTSA crash data shows Tesla accounted for 40 out of the 45 crashes reported to the agency through October 15th. 40 out of the 45 fatal incidents reported. That sounds bad if you're Tesla. Right? If you're Tesla, better to not have people ever hear numbers like that. Therefore, don't collect the numbers anymore. Stop collecting all this excessive data. Problem solved. Problem solved for Tesla and for Elon Musk. Problem not solved for the Contra Costa county firefighters who were in that truck. Problem not solved for the eight kids in the giant smash up in the Thanksgiving Day tunnel crash. Problem not solved for the 10th grader medevaced to the hospital in North Carolina after stepping off the school bus that the Tesla slammed into. Right. Problem not solved for them, but it is solved for the billionaire. I should note that this reporting from Reuters is based on a document that Reuters saw. We haven't seen the document ourselves. We have also reached out to Tesla and to the Trump transition for comment. So far we have not heard back. I'll let you know when you're thinking about this dynamic and sort of our government. You know, I acknowledge maybe worrying about car crashes isn't your thing. Maybe this is just generally not what you're worried about. Maybe you're thinking less domestic, more global concerns. I can imagine you out there right now being like, come on, Matto, you're talking about car wrecks. There's bigger things at stake in the world. There's a war in Gaza, there's a war in Ukraine. There's drug cartels and the opioid epidemic and nuclear armed rogue states. Right. There's so much more to worry about. Why are you talking about this domestic specific thing? Well, behold the man who has been tapped to be your next Secretary of Commerce in the United States. That's him there with the microphone, standing next to JD Vance as the co chair of the Trump transition team. This man was, quote, in charge of identifying 4,000 new hires to fill the second Trump administration, including antitrust officials, securities lawyers and national security advisors who have global expertise, quote. But he himself has not stepped away from running financial firms that serve corporate clients, traders, cryptocurrency platforms and real estate ventures around the world, all of which are regulated by the same agencies whose appointees he is helping to find. This is about Howard Lutnick, who's been tapped to be the next commerce secretary co chair of the Trump transition. You saw the mention there of cryptocurrency. That's about one very specific thing that's worth hearing. His firm, the Trump transition co chair, the guy who's going to be Trump's nominee for Secretary of Commerce, his Wall street firm is up to its neck, like more than $80 billion up to its neck in one particular crypto firm that is reportedly now the subject of a major federal criminal investigation and is also reportedly potentially on the hook for being subject to sanctions by the U.S. treasury Department. This is reporting from the Wall Street Journal. Quote, the criminal investigation run by prosecutors at the Manhattan U.S. attorney's office is looking at whether the cryptocurrency has been used by third parties to fund illegal activities such as the drug trade and terrorism and hacking. The Treasury Department, meanwhile, has been considering sanctioning the company Tether because of its cryptocurrency's widespread use by individuals and groups sanctioned by the US including the terrorist group Hamas and Russian arms dealers. Sanctions against Tether would generally prohibit Americans from doing business with the company. The cryptocurrency is, quote, a vital financing tool for several of the U.S. s top national security concerns, including, check out this list, including the North Korean nuclear weapons programs, Mexican drug cartels, Russian arms companies, Middle Eastern terrorist groups, and Chinese manufacturers of chemicals used to make fentanyl. That criminal investigation first reported literally two weeks exactly before the presidential election. But then Trump won the election and this guy gets named to be Secretary of Commerce and also is named as the guy who's going to staff up the whole federal government while his firm is again up to its neck in managing tens of billions of dollars for a firm that is reportedly being criminally investigated for alleged links. Links. Just put up the list again. What is the list again? Alleged links to the terrorist group Hamas, Russian arms dealers, the North Korean nuclear weapons program, Mexican drug cartels, and for good measure, Chinese manufacturers of chemicals used to make fentanyl. So maybe car crashes aren't your thing. Are any of those things any of your concerns? If any of those things are important to you for any reason. Sorry. Unless and until you are buying yourself a president, the government is going to be taking care of the school bus, slaloming autopilot Teslas, and the alleged money launderers for Hamas, Russian gun runners. And the people who bring you fentanyl, they're not going to be working for you. When we use the word oligarchy or you hear people talk about oligarchs, it always sounds foreign, first of all, right. But second of all, it. I will admit, as a person who's sort of interested in the drama that goes along with the news, sometimes the whole idea of oligarchy or oligarchs, it sounds kind of interesting, right? Maybe I've got a sixth sense of what counts as Drama and an interesting story. But you've got really, really, really, really rich people, a relatively small number of them, taking over the government and changing the government so it only works for them. It can sound like interesting drama to watch, right? Like succession style. Really rich people fighting and maneuvering among themselves to see who comes out on top, to see who gets to control what piece of the pie, right? There's a reason we watch shows like that. Maybe there's going to be interesting drama to mine, right? Succession style from watching Trump's various billionaires scrap amongst themselves to see if the guy with $80 billion worth of links to the crypto firm with the alleged Hamas in North Korea, T. Oh, is he gonna be commerce Secretary? Or maybe treasury secretary, or maybe he's out. Or will the one billionaire who wants to live in space when Earth goes to hell, will he totally take over NASA himself? Or will the other billionaire, with his own space company, make big enough smoochy noises that he too will be handed some portion of America's space infrastructure? There's a way to think about this as real junior high school drama. Ooh, these kitty cats hate each other. Meow. This should be an interesting fight. There is a way to look upon the oligarchization of the American government as drama, as a kind of theater of greed. And maybe there'll be some good stories there. And of course, there's also the lowdown crassness of it all as well, which is its own very low brow kind of drama. You know, one son's girlfriend gets to be an ambassador. Sure, why not? The other son's wife maybe gets to be a senator. One daughter's husband gets an ambassadorship for his felon dad, and his college roommate gets to be America's hostage envoy. Right? Because sure, why not? Jared's roommate for the hostage envoy job, not like anybody's life depends on it. And the other daughter's husband, he'll get a Middle east envoy job for his father, who seems to have persuaded everyone he's a billionaire, but apparently that was all an act. And his family actually just owns a truck dealership. And so now that he's been exposed, exposed as kind of a con artist, does he still get to be the Middle east envoy? I don't know. It's all hilarious. It's very lowbrow. It's hilarious and it's interesting to watch. And it's maybe good drama. Unless, God forbid, you've got a family member who's a hostage somewhere and is counting on help from the US Government. To save his or her life. And you're starting to worry if maybe Jared's roommate wasn't the best point person to head that up for the US Government, Maybe there's somebody more qualified. I mean, it's hilarious. Unless you've got a loved one trapped overseas in some sort of problem in an important foreign country who needs help from the US embassy in that country. And it turns out Don Jr. S girlfriend with no diplomatic experience is the ambassador there. I mean, it all could be very interesting drama. Unless you've got a reason to worry about fentanyl and opioids, or unless you've got a kid getting off a school bus somewhere, or unless you find yourself one Thanksgiving Day driving a car full of kids through that tunnel at 1pm what people like Anne Applebaum and Ruth Ben Guillot and Yale historian Timothy Snyder have been teaching about and kind of warning Americans about for the past couple of years. As we have started this slide in our country, as we have started this slide toward a form of government that exists all over the world but has never before been here, one of the things they have been telling us is that oligarchy under an authoritarian leader, we've got very, very rich people dividing up the spoils of the government and the country under an authoritarian leader who lets them have attics. One of the things to know about that kind of system is that it isn't just about the leader and the oligarchs helping themselves. It is that. And it's a sight to behold, right? There are untold piles of ill gotten gains all over the world to show for that. But for most of us, what's more important than what they do for themselves is what it does to everyone else. When government exists to serve the people who have been made very rich by technology and industry and business practices that have a side effect effect of hurting and killing regular people. The effect of that is that more regular people are going to get hurt and killed because there will be nowhere to turn for redress or for protection because the authorities you might once have called, they're no longer there for you. They're there now for the guy at the gala at the Leader's winter home in Florida. They're there for the con artist in laws of the leader's second daughter or whoever. I mean, that's what oligarchy is everywhere. The important thing is not the drama among the oligarchs. And I can feel our media system right now sliding into soap opera coverage of the drama among the oligarchs. Sure, that drama is there. But the real effect on our country is not just about which kitty cat comes out with the biggest spoils, right? The drama among the oligarchs is drama. But the consequence for our country is what that kind of a system, what that kind of a spoil system does to all of us, does to regular people. How do we prepare ourselves better for that? Based on what other countries have been through with that? Is there anything that we can learn about how we can try to slow it down or stop our country from becoming that? If in fact we want to protect ourselves from dissolving into that kind of a system, that is a question for which there is expert help available. And Timothy Snyder is here in person with me here next. Stay with us.

[Rachel Maddow]

This podcast is supported by Planned Parenthood Federation of America. Planned Parenthood Federation of America exists so all people can get access to the sexual and reproductive care and education they need. Planned Parenthood organizations advocate for health equity and policies that allow people the freedom to control their own bodies, lives and futures. More than 2 million patients a year rely on Planned Parenthood Health center services like STI testing and treatment, birth control, gender affirming care, abortion, cancer screenings and more. Reproductive health care and rights are under attack from public officials who are out of step with the will of the vast majority of Americans. The constitutional right to abortion has been stolen and politicians in 47 states have introduced bills that would block people from getting the sexual and reproductive care they need. Planned Parenthood knows that equitable access to healthcare, including safe, legal abortion, is a human right. Right now, Planned Parenthood needs your help to protect access to healthcare. Donate today by visiting plannedparenthood.org protect when the future is uncertain, it helps to know you aren't alone. That's why I support the National Women's Law Center. For over 50 years, NWLC has been fighting to protect our fundamental rights like access to birth control, equal pay, and so much more. Their legacy of landmark wins for women and girls means you can trust that every dollar is making a difference for gender justice. And for a limited time, every gift will be matched. Make a special year end gift right [e-mail] givenow that's nwlc.org givenow Even if.

[International Rescue Committee Representative]

You think it's overhyped, AI is suddenly everywhere. From self driving cars to molecular medicine to business efficiency. If it's not in your industry yet, it's coming fast. But AI needs a lot of speed and computing power, so how do you compete without costs spiraling out of control? Time to upgrade to the next generation of the cloud with Oracle Cloud Infrastructure. OCI is a fast and secure platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, plus all your AI and machine learning workloads. OCI costs 50% less for computing and 80% less for networking, saving you a pile of money. Right now, Oracle is offering to cut your current cloud bill in half if you move to oci for new US customers with minimum financial commitment. Offer ends December 31, 2024. See if your company qualifies for this Special [e-mail] maddow that's oracle.com maddow.

[Ryan Reynolds]

There will be an open U.S. senate seat in the state of Florida next year. If Marco Rubio gets confirmed as Donald Trump's new Secretary of State, it will then be up to the sitting Governor of Florida to pick somebody to replace Rubio until there can be a special election. The choice belongs therefore to Governor Ron DeSantis. But that has not stopped the President elect from picking up the phone and calling Ron DeSantis and reportedly telling him that he should give this Senate seat to his own daughter in law to Lara Trump, who is of course married to Trump's son Eric, the blonde one. Then there are the jobs that the President actually is supposed to fill himself. Trump has selected his daughter Tiffany, Trump's father in law, to be his senior advisor on the Middle East. He has named his other daughter's father in law, Jared's dad, to be ambassador to France. First time I believe we've ever had an ex con in that role. He's reportedly giving Jared's college roommate a really important job. He's going to be in charge of hostage negotiations for the whole US Government. Also his other son, not the blonde one, Don Jr. The dark haired one. His ex fiance. She gets to be ambassador to Greece. I don't know why Greece. This is a fun one. It's kind of like a nesting doll. His pick for Surgeon General. She's related to the guy who Trump picked for National Security Advisor. The new Trump National Security Adviser is married to the new Surgeon General's sister. Hey, same idea with the Ambassador to the Dominican Republic. Her brother in law is Trump's pick to run the Transportation Department. I wonder why she got the I wonder why he got, I don't know, to leave the dea. Trump picked the son in law of an NFL owner friend of his who he had pardoned in his first term, though apparently the heat was a little too hot for that guy. He has already withdrawn his name from contention and that kind of mess on its own. It's A lot to take in. Any one of those appointments would be kind of a show stopping scandal in any other presidency. But that's just, you know, stuff that nobody's even noticing. Amid the tsunami of candidates who aren't related to Trump, but who have varying degrees of legitimately alarming biographical details and lack of qualification, plus the never ending parade of unsettling policy proposals that are being floated by the Trump transition. Let's get rid of the fdic. Let's get rid of vaccines. Let's get rid of the postal service, let's get rid of the weather service. What else do we need? It does feel like a fire hose right now, but psychologically that has an effect on us because it feels like too much. Does that mean that we're not able to focus on any one of these things enough to potentially make a difference as to whether or not it comes to pass? How do we strategically align ourselves to this moment of information, this moment of transition in our country in a way that keeps us psychologically engaged and strategically sharp in terms of how we think about defending our system of government and our country? Joining us now is Timothy Snyder, professor of history at Yale University. You know him on this show primarily as the author of this seminal book on tyranny, which became very famous during the first Trump administration. His newest book is called On Freedom. Professor Tim Snyder. It's really good to see you. Thank you for coming in.

[Timothy Snyder]

I'm happy to see you.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Let me just ask you, I talked a little bit about the idea of oligarchy in the first segment. I just wanted to ask if I talked about that in a way that resonates with you, or if you think I got that wrong or if you want any thoughts about that.

[Timothy Snyder]

No, I thought it was absolutely right. I mean, it was the ancient Greeks who said oligarchs are going to be stronger than Democrats because they will collect the money, they'll have the propaganda. They were right. It's always going to be a problem for democracy. And then we borrow the word from the Russians who have seen this story happen in the 1990s. Weak, aging President surrounded by rich, clever people who fight amongst themselves, divide up all the goodies and bring the state down.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Bringing the state down is important for people who care about the government. It's also important for people who are concerned about their everyday lives. There are things that the government does, even if we don't appreciate our government, that we will miss when they're gone. And if the oligarchs capture the government so that it only serves their purposes. The American people will be worse off and poorer and less safe and ultimately dislocated from the levers that we can currently use to make our government more effective and more responsive.

[Timothy Snyder]

Yeah, Americans like to think that we're special, but oligarchs in our country will always have more in common, and they will always be more affectionate and loyal towards oligarchs in other countries. And so if you want to see how things can go in our country, we have to see the world through their eyes, which is a world of billionaires, not of citizens. All the people that Trump admires abroad rule countries which are less effective, where people have shorter lives and where they poorer.

[Ryan Reynolds]

When you look at the examples from our contemporaries in other countries who are contending with systems like this, but also the history of this type of government, are there lessons to be learned about how to stop a slide into oligarchic domination, how to resist it, or how to try to retain our rights and the things that we enjoy about our government against those kinds of forces?

[Timothy Snyder]

I think, first of all, we have to be able to keep it positive. Not in the sense of saying, everything's great, it's not, it's terrible. They're trying to break the government, which means breaking the country. But positive in the sense of we should have a shadow cabinet. We should have a list of people who alternatives to these same people so we can look and say, hey, this person could have been Secretary of the treasury, that person could have been Secretary of Defense. Have those people so that they can give positive alternatives as people and give positive alternatives as policy. But also to have someone so that the journalists can talk to them for the next four years so we don't both sides everything. So it's not like vaccines plus minus. But hey, let's talk to somebody about how good vaccines actually are and what we actually could do. Let's talk to someone about how we can prevent car crashes and what that would look like. We have to think about opposition in the sense of what in America could look like if we had other people, if we had a real, real elite. More practically, the States can make it harder for oligarchs to function, and we can look at other countries to help us make it harder for people like Musk to function. Those things can happen too.

[Ryan Reynolds]

When you mean look to other countries, just talking about, what do you mean there in terms of.

[Timothy Snyder]

I mean that the things that, the things that Musk and our oligarchs do are sometimes illegal in other countries. And we should observe that and be supportive of that. But it's the states that actually control a lot of financial flight. And so states that are concerned about oligarchy can do things too.

[Ryan Reynolds]

What do you tell people who feel overwhelmed by, as you say, how bad it is right now? I think that one of the things that has rocked a lot of people since the election, even people who didn't like the election result, is that sort of the worst things that you can imagine, particularly in terms of nominees like Tulsi Gabbard for the Director of National Intelligence is kind of the worst choice that you could imagine. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. For Health Secretaries is, I think, the worst choice you could imagine. FBI Director Kash Patel, definitely the worst choice that you could imagine. And the succession of those. It wasn't just Matt Gaetz. It was all these others that are as bad as I think it could probably get, I think is overwhelming to people, in a sense. And it also cumulatively makes people feel like, well, I'm not even sure which of these to focus on. Maybe I shouldn't focus on any of this and I should just check out.

[Timothy Snyder]

Yeah, I think we can start with none of these people should hold any position of responsibility at all in any country, at any level. That should be the starting point. We can't normalize it. The second thing is we can classify them. Some of them will destroy the government because they're incompetent. Some of them will destroy it because of conflicts of interest. Some will destroy because of ideology. And some, like Musk, will try to destroy it because they want to pick up the pieces. So we can classify them. That can make us feel calmer. And then in terms of what we actually do about it, we have to try to get over the line. As many of these people as possible, like respectable Republicans, should not be voting for these people. And then once they do, we have to move on to thinking about the six terrible months that follow, chronicling that the Democrats should be thinking not about this lost election, but about what things look like in June of 25 and how things could be so much better than the terror that this group is going to bring us to.

[Ryan Reynolds]

And that's in part that idea of a shadow government that Democrats should be standing up. Our respectable Republicans, or never Trump Republicans should be stepping up and saying, no, this is actually what the Director of National Intelligence should be doing in this situation. This is what the Transportation Department should be doing in this situation.

[Timothy Snyder]

I think Harris or Pelosi or somebody else should actually have a list of people who are the shadow cabinet, whose job it is to talk to the press every day, not just about what's wrong, but actually about, hey, what the government could do. Because it's that lack of imagination. When things get terrible, we're going to think, okay, terrible, let's have less terrible. But we should be thinking about, hey, we actually have great people in this country and we could have had a much better version of all of this. And we can get to that.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Timothy Snyder, professor of history at Yale University, the author of the books on tyranny and on Freedom. It's an honor to have you here and thank you for coming in in person.

[Timothy Snyder]

It is my pleasure. Thank you, Richard.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Thank you. All right. We'll be right back. See you. With us, Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. With the price of just about everything going up during inflation, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, which is apparently a thing Mint Mobile Unlimited premium wireless Everybody to get 30, 30, better get 30, better get 20, 20, 20 better get 20, 20 better get 15, 15, 15, 15. Just 15 bucks a month. So give it a [e-mail] Switch $45.

[Rachel Maddow]

Upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only taxes and fees, extra Speed slower above 40 gigabytes. E Detail if you want to bring coziness into your life, you turn to Barefoot dreams. Now celebrating 30 years of coziness, Barefoot Dreams is the originator of everyone's favorite luxe home blanket. There's a reason why Barefoot Dreams has been on Oprah's favorite things list six times. Dressing head to toe in Barefoot Dreams is the key to comfort as its ultra soft robes, loungewear and accessories are each made with premium materials. Get 15% off your first purchase at barefootdreams.com with the code PODCAST15. Holiday magic is in the air and DSW's got all the shoes to make your season extra merry. Believe you've got parties to attend and lists to check twice. So DSW is taking care of the details like gifts to make their eyes all aglow. Styles that bring joy to your world. Brands everyone wants like Ugg, Nike, Birkenstock and more and deals to make your budget bright. Find the first perfect shoes for you and yours at a DSW store near you or dsw.com.

[Ryan Reynolds]

The quite unexpected news this weekend that ABC News would settle a defamation suit with President Elect Trump and pay him $15 million had the president elect licking his chops today at a press conference talking about the Prospects he imagines for going after more media outlets. He said he plans to sue somebody. I don't know, the people of Iowa. Their newspaper wasn't totally clear. He plans to sue someone over a poll late in the election season that showed Trump doing well in. Sorry, Trump not doing as well as he did in Iowa. Since he eventually won Iowa, he thinks that's grounds for a lawsuit. Cuz that poll said he might lose it. The especially hairy thing that he said today was that actually he shouldn't have to bring suits like this himself expects that the Justice Department, the U.S. department of justice, should bring lawsuits like this on his behalf. The dynamic that's emerging for the second Trump term is not just that powerful people want to be able to use their own power to harass their perceived critics. It's that the new President elect expects. He expects that he will be able to use not just his own power and influence, but he will be able to use the US Government to harass and punish his critics. And it's not just the Justice Department he plans to use. Today, the outgoing chair of the fcc, the Federal Communications Commission, responded again to Trump's demands that the FCC should strip licenses from a news network that made him mad. The outgoing chair said, quote, the FCC has no business threatening to take away broadcast licenses because the president doesn't like the content or coverage on a network. Ahead of the election, Trump talked about using the US Military domestically to target Americans who oppose him or protest against him, the so called enemy from within. Now he's reportedly planning on creating a new board overseeing promotions and senior officers in the US Military, which would allow him to purge military leadership of anybody who disloyal to him or who disagrees with him or who has different politics. Trump and his allies are also reportedly considering withholding federal money from states or cities that don't go along with plans like his mass deportation idea. It feels like a lot because it is a lot and it's happening all at once. But how do local governments and news organizations and ordinary citizens think strategically about this? When Trump is threatening and saying he expects to use the most powerful government on earth against its own citizens to attack his critics, what can your mayor or your governor or your local paper or some voluntary organization you might be part of do to stand up against that in a time like this? Just the person to ask. Joining us now is Anthony Romero, Executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union. Anthony, it's really nice to see you. Thank you for coming in. Great to see having you and Tim Snyder here on the same night. Feels to me like I won the lottery. I really appreciate it.

[Anthony Romero]

Oh, it's great. It was great to be with you.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Tell me about how you at the ACLU are thinking about your plans to try to defend American civil liberties in this term versus the first term.

[Anthony Romero]

Well, we've been planning for almost a year. We were anticipating the possibility that he would win this election. So we've spent thousands of staff hours studying Project 2025, tracking the campaign promises, going back and playing back what happened in Trump 1.0 to see what might happen with Trump 2.0. And so we've been trying to get ready for this whole period of time. Clearly, we can't run the same playbook. They're going to be more aggressive, they're smarter, they're faster off the block. They are really going for the, they're running the gauntlet on many of the policy issues that they didn't dare try last time. They're going to run the ball down the field. And so we have to be much smarter and much better prepared. Litigation is going to be key. The courts still are a place where we have to turn to we have to be wide eyed that the courts are also increasingly conservative and he will appoint new judges onto the courts. It's also true that Biden appointed a record number of judges on the courts, and so not all is lost. But good lawyers are going to have to earn their pay by picking the right clients, the right cases, the right theories. Where do you file, where do you settle? Where do you really push the envelope? And that's what really we're working through right now.

[Ryan Reynolds]

When you talk to regular Americans who aren't lawyers, who aren't people who are engaged in this fight in a practical, paid to do it as part of their job kind of way. And you hear people feeling intimidated, feeling overwhelmed by the pace at which we're getting sort of alarming news about the extremism of their plans. What do you tell them about the prospects for holding life?

[Anthony Romero]

Well, local governments, you know, the state attorneys general, the governors, the mayors, we have this whole plan around a firewall for freedom. We call it the idea that these local officials can really play an important role in stopping the worst of the government abuses.

[Ryan Reynolds]

How so?

[Anthony Romero]

Well, for instance, when they're going to try to detain and deport all these hundreds of thousands up to a million people, that's an operation that they have the legal power to do to do the raids, but the logistics. And they're going to need mayors and governors or City councils to either give them access to police officers or not jails. Where are you going to house all these folks? Right. And so part of what we're doing is we're preparing executive orders and we're organizing our folks to put pressures on elected officials so they don't roll over. They should sever these relationships they have with the federal government on immigration enforcement. They should make sure that our prisons and our jails are off limits. They should begin to think about what actions they could take to pardon immigrants who have a criminal record because they drove on a suspended license. Well, let's take them out of harm's way.

[Ryan Reynolds]

They could do that now.

[Anthony Romero]

Let's commute.

[Ryan Reynolds]

They could do that now in the transition. Yes, yes.

[Anthony Romero]

And so part of what we've got to do is we got to swarm our allies in some of these places. And even in red states, you have some blue, you have some blue mayors. And so there's a whole game plan for this. And I think part of what we're trying to do is breaking it down. What can be done by the courts and lawyers, what can be done by citizens? What can governors do? What can mayors do? And really have a game plan for that.

[Ryan Reynolds]

When people look at the fact that there haven't been large scale protests thus far the way there were pretty soon after the election in 2016, I tend to look at that and think the American people are smart. People are marshaling their resources, choosing for the right moment.

[Anthony Romero]

Exactly.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Do you see it the same way or do you see it when he.

[Anthony Romero]

Starts deporting all these folks, ripping apart communities? The idea that you're never going to be able to move that many people through the immigration system without ripping apart citizens and immigrants, it's going to rip the basic fiber of our lives. And that's when people are going to say, oh, that's not what we bargained for. We got to turn out.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Anthony Romero, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union. There's a lot on your shoulders, my friend. Thank you for being here.

[Anthony Romero]

I have a lot of friends helping me. Thank you.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Thank you. Thank you. All right, we'll be right back. Stay with us. Today in a courtroom in Los Angeles, one of the most spectacular debacles of the current Republican Congress came to an embarrassing and pitiful conclusion that you will not hear about anywhere in right wing media. You may or may not have been following every twist and turn of it, but Republicans in Congress really did spend over a year trying to impeach President Biden. At the heart of the impeachment effort was a star witness, a man with the smoking gun. It was an FBI informant who supposedly had the evidence that President Biden took bribes, that a Ukrainian energy company had paid millions of dollars in bribes to President Biden and his son Hunter. Now, problem one for the Republicans with this scenario happened when that guy, the FBI informant, is the star witness for the Republicans against President Biden. Problem one for them was when he got arrested and indicted for lying to the FBI about the Biden bribery allegations. Problem two for the Republicans is that according to the indictment of him, this man claimed that some of the information he got, the false information about President Biden that he got and passed on was information that he got from Russian intelligence officials. Today problem three arrived, which is that the man has now pled guilty. He's pled guilty to a felony charge of lying to the FBI about this phony alleged bribery scheme. He now likely faces four to six years in prison. You will not be shocked to learn that this is not getting a lot of play in the right wing media that hyped the Biden bribery allegations for more than a year. You'll now be shocked to learn that Republican lawmakers don't at all appear to be chastened by this outcome. Just this past week, the incoming Republican chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Chuck Grassley, was still citing this guy's nonsense allegations as part of a lawyer to FBI Director Chris Wray telling him he ought to resign. But again, the facts of it here, a spectacular debacle for Republicans that today came to its embarrassing close. As if anything has ever really closed for these guys. That's gonna do it for me. For now, it's time to have your.

[Rachel Maddow]

High Five moment with High Five Casino. The top social casino where the action and real prizes never stop. Fun spins and big wins are right at your fingertips. With over a thousand games, including High Five Casino exclusives, High Five Casino is always free to play, with free coins given out every four hours. Sign up today for a free welcome offer that can get you spinning and winning right away. Visit high5casino.com high5casino no purchase necessary. Void where prohibited by law. Must be 21 years or older. Terms and conditions apply.