Defying Trump, Americans refuse to be denied their right to protest

Summary

The Rachel Maddow Show: Defying Trump, Americans Refuse to Be Denied Their Right to Protest

Episode Release Date: June 17, 2025
Host: Rachel Maddow, MSNBC
Podcast Title: The Rachel Maddow Show
Description: The Rachel Maddow Show airs Mondays at 9pm ET on MSNBC, featuring in-depth analysis and discussions on pressing national issues. This episode delves into the widespread protests against former President Donald Trump, exploring the resilience and determination of American protesters in safeguarding their constitutional rights.

---

Introduction

In this powerful episode, Rachel Maddow addresses the surge of protests across the United States against former President Donald Trump. She reflects on her initial underestimation of the movement's scale and examines the factors contributing to its unprecedented momentum.

---

Protests Against Trump: A Nationwide Movement

Rachel Maddow opens the discussion by acknowledging her misjudgment regarding the extent of protests in Washington D.C. She states:

"I sat here last week all earnest and serious, telling you... that there definitely was gonna be no protest in Washington D.C. this weekend... but I was wrong." [02:15]

Despite various attempts by protest organizers and Trump himself to deter demonstrations, millions of Americans took to the streets in cities large and small. Maddow highlights the resilience of protesters who refused to be intimidated, citing instances where law enforcement and authorities warned against attending gatherings.

---

Case Study: Minnesota's Tragic Events and Protests

A significant portion of the episode focuses on the violent incidents in Minnesota, where a gunman targeted Democratic officials, resulting in the deaths of a former House Speaker and her husband, and the attempted assassination of another legislator and his wife. Despite these dire circumstances, thousands still participated in protests.

Amy Klobuchar, a U.S. Senator from Minnesota, shares her personal connection to the tragedy:

"Melissa was in the center of all of it, negotiating, bringing people with her. Just an incredible leader and a good friend." [38:13]

Klobuchar commends the peaceful nature of the protests and praises law enforcement for their swift action in apprehending the shooter, preventing further loss of life.

---

Nationwide Protests: A Diverse and Widespread Response

Maddow provides a comprehensive overview of the numerous protests that unfolded over the weekend, spanning major cities like Philadelphia, New York, Chicago, Boston, and Atlanta, as well as smaller towns across the country. She emphasizes the sheer scale and determination of the movement, noting that approximately five million Americans participated in protests.

One particularly memorable moment described is the Atlanta protest, where a brass band diffused tension between opposing groups:

"When all else fails, get yourself a trombone and a tuba and a sax player and apply liberally Solves most problems." [14:50]

This anecdote underscores the creative and nonviolent strategies employed by protesters to maintain peace and solidarity.

---

Expert Analysis: Timothy Snyder on Opposition Movements

Rachel Maddow welcomes Timothy Snyder, a renowned history professor and author of On Tyranny, to discuss the effectiveness and future strategies of the opposition movement against Trump.

Timothy Snyder offers valuable insights:

"These movements work as coalitions. It's not us and them, it's people." [32:30]

He emphasizes the importance of unpredictability, adaptability, and fostering coalitions that transcend political differences to sustain the movement's momentum. Snyder also underscores the significance of nonviolence and community engagement in achieving lasting change.

"Nonviolence isn't just stopping yourself from being violent. It's also a kind of openness to participate in things which leaves you feeling better afterwards." [34:06]

---

The Decline of Trump's Popularity vs. the Growing Opposition

Maddow presents recent polling data revealing a substantial decline in Trump's approval ratings, both among the general population and his own supporters. She highlights a growing gap between the fervent opposition and the diminishing support base of Trump, suggesting a shifting political landscape.

"His approval ratings are more underwater than any other president ever at this point in his term." [26:56]

---

The Future of the Opposition Movement

As the episode progresses, Maddow and Snyder discuss strategies to maintain and build upon the current momentum of the opposition. They explore lessons from historical social movements and emphasize the need for sustained commitment, creativity, and inclusive coalitions to ensure the movement's effectiveness.

"There is a better America out there. There is a better America that we can see. There is a better America that we can make." – Timothy Snyder [29:20]

---

Tragic Events and Their Impact on the Movement

Maddow provides a heart-wrenching update on the victims of the Minnesota shootings, sharing a poignant text message from Yvette Hoffman, the wife of the first victim, regarding their survival and loss:

"John is enduring many surgeries right now and is closer every hour to being out of the woods. He took nine bullet hits, I took eight. And we are both incredibly lucky to be alive. We are gutted and devastated by the loss of Melissa and Mark." [37:00]

This personal account adds a deeply human element to the narrative, illustrating the real-life consequences of political violence and the resilience of those affected.

---

Additional News and Developments

Post the main discussion, Maddow briefly touches upon other significant news, including Trump's controversial FAA nomination. She highlights discrepancies in the nominee's claimed qualifications, questioning the administration's handling of the situation.

"President Donald Trump's nominee to head the FAA long described himself... Records... do not list any such commercial credential for Mr. Bedford." [43:00]

---

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a reaffirmation of the strength and determination of the American people to defend their democratic rights. Rachel Maddow emphasizes the importance of continued activism and vigilance in the face of political challenges.

"The opposition against him is big, deep, growing, confident and increasingly unstoppable." [27:35]

---

Key Takeaways

• Unyielding Protests: Despite efforts to suppress dissent, millions of Americans have actively protested against Trump, demonstrating the enduring power of constitutional rights and civic engagement.

• Resilience Amid Tragedy: The tragic events in Minnesota did not quell public dissent but instead galvanized the movement, highlighting the community's resilience.

• Strategic Insights: Expert analysis underscores the necessity of adaptability, coalition-building, and nonviolent strategies to sustain and advance the opposition movement.

• Shifting Political Dynamics: Declining approval ratings for Trump juxtaposed with a growing and energized opposition signal significant shifts in the political landscape.

• Personal Impact: The personal stories of victims and their families underscore the profound human cost of political violence, reinforcing the stakes of the ongoing movement.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Rachel Maddow: "We are Americans. We have the right to protest." [04:50]

• Amy Klobuchar: "Melissa was in the center of all of it... Just an incredible leader and a good friend." [38:13]

• Timothy Snyder: "Nonviolence isn't just stopping yourself from being violent. It's also a kind of openness to participate in things which leaves you feeling better afterwards." [34:06]

• Yvette Hoffman: "John is enduring many surgeries right now and is closer every hour to being out of the woods... We are gutted and devastated by the loss of Melissa and Mark." [37:00]

---

This episode of The Rachel Maddow Show provides a comprehensive and heartfelt exploration of the current state of American protests against Donald Trump, blending on-the-ground reportage with expert analysis to present a nuanced understanding of the nation's political climate.

Transcript

[Nicole Wallace]

MSNBC presents a new original podcast, the Best People with Nicole Wallace. This week she sits down with NBA coach Doc Rivers.

[Doc Rivers]

The resiliency that you have to have.

[Rachel Maddow]

In life and in sports is what eventually will get you to the top.

[Nicole Wallace]

The best people with Nicole Wallace Listen now. For early access ad free listening and bonus content, subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

[Rachel Maddow]

Thanks to you at home for joining us here this hour. Really happy to have you here. So telling people not to go didn't work. Warning people not to go didn't work. Trying to intimidate people not to go. That definitely didn't work. Even a good faith earnest, here's a really good reason not to go. Kind of cajoling. That did not work either. Turns out we learned definitively in these past few days that people want to protest against this president a lot. And no matter what you tell them, they are going to do it. And a lot of people have been wrong about that, including me. I sat here last week all earnest and serious, telling you, as if it was true, that there definitely was gonna be no protest in Washington D.C. this weekend, that protesters would be everywhere else in the country, but they definitely wouldn't be in Washington, D.C. boy, I was wrong. The no Kings protest organizers had in fact said, no, they were not going to protest in Washington. They were gonna protest everywhere else but there. But plenty of people protested there in very large numbers. And it wasn't just the no Kings organizers who were saying, oh, we're not going to D.C. don't go to D.C. you might remember last week, Trump tried to threaten people against protesting in Washington this weekend. He said last week that if anybody sort of, you know, dared show up to protest against his big birthday military parade, they'd be met with big and very heavy force trying to intimidate people into not protesting. Turns out that didn't work. Regular Americans said, you know what? We're not listening to any of you. We're Americans and we have the right to protest. And that comes from our Constitution and not from any of you. And so get out of the way. We don't care. We're protesting. Lots of people protested in Washington this weekend and there were no problems associated with it. Protesters mostly did bug out of DC before the actual military parade started. The military parade itself turned out to have really thin crowds in some places along the parade route. There was almost nobody in the stands. Everybody in. The president seemed kind of, I don't know, a little bored, maybe a little disappointed. I don't know. Ta da. Just Wasn't a big thing that president put President Trump put on for $45 million, but they got plenty of protesters when people, including me, said they wouldn't be there. You might have seen headlines last week about the Brevard County, Florida sheriff last week who called a press conference to threaten that he would sic dogs on people and his officers would not just put people in jail, they would put people in the. He literally got up at a press conference and said, we will kill you, talking about violence he expected at any anti Trump protests in Brevard County, Florida, after that bizarre show of intimidation from that sheriff in Brevard County, Florida. Turns out people in Brevard County, Florida were not at all intimidated by what he said. As you can see from local headlines like this one, quote, no Kings anti Trump protests draw thousands in Brevard county in Cocoa and Palm Bay. I mean, the sheriff gets out there and says, we will kill you. And Brevard County, Florida is like, you know what? We got a right to protest. We have a right to make protest signs of any kind, including ones that show Donald Trump in a big wig made up like Marie Antoinette saying, let them eat cake. And you are not going to stop us from doing it. We are Americans. We have the right to do this. We will protest for the most serious possible reason. People were also told not to protest, not to go to any no Kings protests in Minnesota this weekend on Saturday, after news emerged of the political assassinations of a Democratic former House speaker and her husband and the attempted assassination of another Democratic state legislator and his wife. And the even more terrible news on Saturday at that time that that assassin was still at large. He has since been brought into custody. But on Saturday, authorities advised everyone in Minnesota to cancel their plans to attend any protest. And that's a very different kind of thing. That is a very, very serious thing. But again, people said no. People went out and protested in Minnesota anyway despite those warnings, actually in huge numbers. Look, this is St. Paul, Minnesota, on Saturday. Look at this. Look at how many people went out and protested anyway. And it is not that people didn't know what had happened. You could tell that because a lot of the signs in the crowd were these heartbreaking signs honoring the former Democratic House speaker in Minnesota, Melissa Hortman and her husband, who were both killed by that assassin. And even though people were told not to protest in that state that day because the killer was literally still on the loose, apparently there was just nothing that was going to stop people from being there, from standing up, from showing up in Huge numbers. And eventually state leaders, I think, realized that there was nothing that they could do to stop people from turning up. Minnesota State Attorney General Keith Ellison decided to go himself. He spoke in St. Paul before that huge crowd. He spoke about his friendship with Speaker Hortman. He spoke about what it felt. What it felt like to lose her. And he also spoke about the civil rights movement and other martyrs we have had in our country for our democracy.

[Doc Rivers]

We owe it to him. We have to do it. We must be there on behalf of the people of this country. In this hour, when a dictator who wants to be a king is trying to run over the rights of the.

[Rachel Maddow]

People.

[Doc Rivers]

We must be there. We must stand up. We must be strong. We cannot waver. We will not be intimidated. We are not scared of his jail. We are not scared of anything about this guy. We are not afraid. And we will not let fear rule the day. We will not let him weaponize fear against us. And I'm telling you now that he had his goons arrest a senator when he was just trying to ask a question. Senator Padilla wrongfully treated. He had his other goons prosecute and charge Congresswoman McIver in New Jersey, had him arrest the mayor of New Jersey, threatened to arrest the governor of California and the mayor of Los Angeles. This is the behavior of a dictator. And the only question is, what are we going to do about it?

[Rachel Maddow]

Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison speaking in St. Paul this week. And I should tell you, Keith Ellison and also Senator Alex Padilla are both going to be on live tonight in this next hour on MSNBC with Lawrence o' Donnell on the Last Word. So you're gonna. You're gonna wanna see that. This hour, we're gonna be Speaking with Minnesota U.S. senator Amy Klobuchar. I'm sorry to say she was also reportedly on the target list for this assassin who shot these two elected Democratic legislators and their spouses this weekend. Again, that alleged assassin is now in custody. We're gonna be speaking with Senator Klobuchar about what's happened in Minnesota tonight. The reaction of the people of Minnesota. I should tell you that Senator Klobuchar was also friends with the murdered House Speaker Meliss. Senator Klobuchar had been with her just on Friday, before the speaker was killed on Saturday. So we're going to be speaking live with Senator Klobuchar in just a few minutes. In addition to those huge crowds, despite everything in Minnesota on Saturday, some of the big protests this weekend were really, really big, huge crowds in Philadelphia, which you see Here, which of course was the kind of flagship protest site for the whole country this weekend. I thought the fact that there was going to be a big protest in Philly might have meant a smaller crowd in New York because they're not too far apart. But nope, I was wrong about that too. Wrong again, Matto. New York turned out to be huge. In the city of Chicago, protests were also absolutely massive this weekend In Boston, the Pride parade was also going on at the same time as the no Kings gathering. The no Kings rally and march in Boston. Even before it was done, local press was crowing that the crowd in Boston was north of a million people. And that really be quite something. I don't know if it was over a million people, but that's what local headlines were calling it. In Boston, Atlanta had a really, really big crowd. You might have seen some of the footage from Atlanta, Georgia this weekend. You might have seen this at sort of the head of the crowd. They had it spelled out, that big spelled out sign, Trump must go. Now, you might have also seen headlines about guys from the Proud Boys, the pro Trump paramilitary militia group, showing up in the middle of that Atlanta anti Trump prot. Seen headlines about that, but did you actually see how that turned out? I'm going to show you just a few seconds of footage here and you'll get it immediately. It involves tubas and trombones. Just watch this for a second. You will see stuff. There's the Proud boys and there's the other protesters and the cops standing between them. And you'll see stuff is kind of starting to get tense. Stuff is starting to feel like maybe it's going to boil over. And then what's that? Hey, tubas to the rescue. Watch. Now, my favorite part about this is that they're just like, this is a very relentless brass band. They just go on and on and on. They're just rocking out. And you can see like some of the Proud boys are still trying to argue and kind of fight with people. But this brass band is unstoppable. See, like, even when they take like a pause, it's just a strategic pause because they're still going. And by the end, nobody can really help themselves. By the end of it, even the Proud Boys themselves are kind of clapping along. By the very end of it, everybody's like kind of basically dancing a little bit despite themselves, which makes it hard to keep up with the fighting. Oh, well, when you're. When all else fails, get yourself a trombone and a tuba and a sax player and a. Apply liberally Solves most problems. But the protests were literally everywhere this weekend. Trump had his little birthday thing in Washington, but then across the country. I mean, organizers and crowd counters say there were somewhere on the order of 5 million people who turned out to say whatever the opposite of Happy birthday is to him. I mean, here, let's go. Top row to bottom row, left to right, upper left hand corner, starting there, that's Oklahoma City. Then Los Angeles. Huge protests in Los Angeles. Then Californ, Kalamazoo, Michigan. Seattle's really big protest in Seattle. Eugene, Oregon. Boise, Idaho. That's the left side, second row there. Look how huge it is in Boise. Then Kansas City, Missouri, that was another big one. Then Denver, big one in Indianapolis. They've also had anti Trump protests outside the NBA Finals. In Indy, San Francisco was huge. Austin, Texas was really big. Then it's Anchorage, Alaska. As I said, Chicago. That is next. Huge Anti Trump protest since Chicago. Atlanta, with the brass band world Peace demonstration and really big numbers. Houston, Texas. Albany, New York. Hello, Cleveland. There's Cleveland there. Charlotte, North Carolina was a very big one. And then second from the right on the bottom row there, that's Little Rock, Arkansas. And then the lower right hand corner there, that is Miami, Florida. And I'm as impressed by big turnout in big cities as I am by people turning out in smaller places where you would not expect it, including some places that I have to look up how to pronounce and you'll forgive me if I don't get them exactly right, right, right. Protests, for example, this weekend in Augusta, Maine, also in Baltimore, Maryland, also in Bennington, Vermont. We saw protests in Charlottesville, Virginia, and in Cincinnati, Ohio, in Colony, New York, Columbia, South Carolina, got a good crowd in Dallas, Texas. It was big. We had big group in Dallas of people dressed out of the Handmaid's tail. We, the people were not meant to kneel. This was Des Moines, Iowa. We had a big crowd. Durham, North Carolina had big numbers. We saw protests in Fairfield, California. Fort Lauderdale, Florida. In Freeport, Maine, they were out in the rain at some points. The pounding rain in Freeport, Maine. This was Frisco, Colorado. Hey, Taco. Our country is Nacho Kingdom. Here was Golden, Colorado. Here was Greenville, South Carolina. Here was Gunnison, Colorado. Here was Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Here was Guam. Hello, Guam. Guam, the U.S. territory. At this point, the staff of the show is going to kill me. This is like me just pulling random sites out of the F and G and H part of the Alphabet. I could go on. Let me put up another 20 box in the hope that this doesn't break the control room. All right, we're gonna go top to bottom, left to right, 20 of them. Ready? Here we go. Put it up.

[Amy Klobuchar]

Yes.

[Rachel Maddow]

St. Louis at the top left. Then Phoenix. Then Chattanooga, Tennessee. Then we got another view of Dallas, Texas. Grand Junction, Colorado. Next row. Look how big San Diego was. Second row, left side. See that? Mm. Then Arlington, Virginia. Buffalo, New York. Then Joplin, Missouri. Then there's another look there at Philly, which was so huge. Next row, it's Olympia, Washington. Another look at New York City. That big one I mentioned in Sacramento, California. Another look at St. Paul, Minnesota, with those remarkable circumstances. Then it's Portland, Oregon. Then that bottom row, Savannah, Georgia. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Milwaukee was only the biggest of 50 different simultaneous protests in the state of Wisconsin. Then Rapid City, South Dakota. Then it's Springfield, Illinois. And then in the bottom right hand corner, that is Tampa, Florida. This one's. Make a smaller box. Yes. Okay. This one's easier to see them one by one. These are anti Trump protests this weekend. Upper left is Pocatello, Idaho. Tucker, Georgia. Then Alton, Illinois. Concord, New Hampshire. Centennial, Colorado. Beaufort, South Carolina. And hold me back. I got a ton of them. I got a ton of them. They're infinite, honestly. Upper left, that's Alameda, California. I showed you Frisco, Colorado before with the Nacho country thing. That was Frisco, Colorado. This is Frisco, Texas. Upper right, that's Rangeley, Maine. Lower level there, lower row, that's Prescott, Arizona. And Rangeley, York, Pennsylvania. Excuse me. And Asheville, North Carolina. Beautiful, resilient, little Asheville, North Carolina. Oh, you think we're done? Ha. We're not done. Here's Sitka, Alas. Upper left there. Waterloo, Iowa. Newton, New Jersey. Menifee, I think is how you say it. Forgive me if that's not right. Menifee, California. Clarksville, Tennessee. Huntington, New York. Again, out in the pouring rain. Did you turn out to protest this weekend in Jacksonville, Alabama? If so, I see you up there in the upper left hand corner. Hello, Jacksonville, Alabama. Same to you. Staunton, Virginia, and Montpelier, Vermont. I know some people who are up there in Montpelier, Vermont. Eagle River, Wisconsin. Statesville, North Carolina. Bremerton, Washington. This was Phoenix, Arizona. This was a mom there with her daughter. The daughter's sign says, leave your MAGA husband. I want to know the whole backstory, and I want to write a TV show about it. This was Austin, Texas, quoting Benjamin Franklin. I believe where liberty dwells, there is my country. This was Hillsboro, North Carolina. No. Tyrantosaurus, Rex, Tyrantosaurus getting in the king thing with Rex. Get it? This was Lexington, Kentucky. First they came for the immigrants and we said no. New Orleans, Louisiana had a pretty big turnout for their protests this weekend, including this gentleman. I fought for my country at 19. Now I'm 81 and have to fight my country. This was West Palm Beach, Florida this weekend. Hey, Mar A Lago, aren't you nearby West Palm Beach? This was Santa Monica, California this weekend. Stephen Miller can never come home. Santa Monica is where Stephen Miller is from. This is a group of 90 plus year olds in Teaneck, New Jersey, who've we seen protesting for weeks now. They were out in Teaneck this weekend. Another super senior here in Pepper Pike, Ohio. You see her sign there. In World War II, my brothers fought fascism. Now it's my turn. And on the other end of the age spectrum, here's this young man in Sequim, Washington. Not my tyrant, not my future. This was Los Angeles, where I mentioned huge protests in Los Angeles. Members of the Russian protest punk band Pussy Riot with this sign. It's beginning, beginning to look a lot like Russia. Essentially a message of warning from the Russian opposition. We could go on and on, right from Truckee, California, where there is only one king and it is definitely Elvis, to Tempe, Arizona, where they packed the overpass. No kings. To Oklahoma City. This one stuck with me. Not a paid protester, but my senators and representatives are supposed to be no kinks. And like I said, I could go on and on and on. I am leaving out more than I am, including by a large measure, when there are more than 2,000 simultaneous protests in the country against the President all at once, it is hard to keep track of them all. It is hard to go through them all on a cable news show. But there have now been so many thousands of protests involving so many millions of Americans. Now I think it's time to start having a national conversation of a different type. Right. The strategy and the character of the opposition to Trump is not only self evident as the most important story in the country. I think it's finally being recognized as the most important story in the country, which is nice. And you have the President clearly just fundamentally politically unable to contend with the depth and breadth of feeling against him. Right. So these must be paid protesters or invaders from somewhere else, or they must all be violent criminals or whatever. No, actually this is St. Louis. Right. This is, this is America. No kings, yes queens. Right, like that. This is just us. It's who we are. And this is how we feel about you. I mean, this is Joplin, Missouri. This is Louisville, Kentucky, where thousands of people turned out. This is McHenry, Illinois. This is High Point, North Carolina. It is literally everywhere in this country, American, in surprising numbers, in surprising places, turning out again and again and again and again to say, no, nope, we are not doing this. You are not taking over our country and turning us into a dictatorship. You are not going to be a king here. And so with all that proof in the pudding, right, with all of that evidence of where we are, it's now sort of time, if we haven't had it already, it is now time to really have a serious national conversation about where this all goes. Because this is not just like the resistance to Trump, right? This is the opposition to Trump. This is the other side. And if we're thinking about the two sides of this fight, well, politically, we're at a point where Trump, and I don't mean this in a mean way, but. But as a political figure, he looks sad and small, right? Nobody came to his $45 million military birthday party. He is a laughingstock on the world stage. He's being treated at the G7 right now like he's Putin's intern. The White House just announced tonight that Trump is coming home early from the G7 meeting tonight after so embarrassing himself there today. I mean, this is a president whose signature economic policy, his supposed tariff policy, is a punchline even among Republicans. I mean, someday, 30 years from now, the whole lecture hall full of Econ 101 students is going to laugh out loud when the professor gets out the chalk and writes TACO on the chalkboard and has to explain what the acronym TACO meant in the Trump years for his signature economic policy that he thought would work so well for him, both politically and economically. It is a punchline. I mean, this is a president who appointed a madman to be the nation's health secretary and who in turn, he has just put like a QAnon conspiracy chat room in charge of the nation's vaccine schedule. This is a president who is selling coins and gold trinkets with his face on them from the White House. This is a president who can't persuade the first lady to live with him. This is a president whose supposed best friend says he should be impeached and, by the way, is in the Epstein files. I mean, this is a president and whose approval ratings are more underwater than any other president ever at this point in his term. He has already rushed right to the part where he tries to turn the military against the civilian population where he tries to turn the force of the American military against the American people. And that is something that neither the military nor the people have an appetite for. And he is going to learn that soon enough. He has rushed right to the end because he has no idea how to play cards against opposition to him that is this big, this sustainable, this broad and this correct. He hasn't done anything as president that would win anyone over to his side. And the number of people who voted for him or supported him otherwise, who are now regretting it, grows by the day. And they don't just grow privately, they grow in the headlines every day. Everybody against him is getting stronger and more confident. Everybody with him is starting to get a little worried about how long they can stay with him as they see their numbers dwindle and they see him fail and flail over and over and over again. So for a would be strong man, he's not strong. He is a remarkably weak and feckless political figure who is nevertheless trying to overthrow the American form of government while pushing incredibly unpopular policies and executing every everything incredibly poorly with a laughing stock full of a terribly, terribly staffed administration and cabinet. I mean, who's in the Trump administration who you think like mmm skills, right? Or you think mmm, popular? Or you think mm, growing political capital for this president by the day, honestly. And on the other side, the opposition against him is big, deep, growing, confident and increasingly unstoppable. And so the question now is efficacy. What does that opposition need to do if it is going to be effective? Their stated goals are to save the Republic, to save democracy, to stop this unpopular weakness, feckless president from overthrowing the Constitution and trying to hold power as a dictator? What does the increasingly powerful, increasingly large, buoyant, confident opposition need to be like from here on out? What do they need to do next and going forward in order to maximize their prospects of success after this weekend's protests by millions of Americans Tonight there was a follow up phone call to talk strategy and next steps. I don't know if they expected this many, but 60,000 people got on that phone call tonight after the no Kings protests. 60,000 people on one call. So we're going to talk tonight about what we know about what works, about how opposition movements of this size have succeeded or stumbled in the past in this and in other countries. And as I mentioned, we've also got Senator Amy Klobuchar joining us live from Minnesota. There's so much to get to tonight. It's a really big night. It's a really big moment. Stay with us.

[Nicole Wallace]

MSNBC's Jen Psaki, host of the Briefing.

[Rachel Maddow]

We've never experienced a moment like this in our country, and it leaves us all with a choice. Are we going to speak out or are we going to be pressured into silence? I've worked for presidents. I've faced the tough questions from the press and even threats from the Kremlin. And if there's one, one thing I've learned is that you can't cower to bullies. You don't need to be hopeless. We have our voices, and I will continue using mine.

[Nicole Wallace]

The Briefing with Jen Psaki Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. Stay up to date on the biggest issues of the day with the MSNBC Daily Newsletter. Each morning you'll get analysis by experts you trust, video highlights from your favorite shows.

[Rachel Maddow]

I do think it's worth being very clear eyed, very realistic about what's going on here.

[Nicole Wallace]

Previews of our podcasts and documentaries, plus written perspectives from the newsmakers themselves, all sent directly to your inbox each morning. Get the best of MSNBC all in one place. Sign up for msnbc [e-mail].

[Rachel Maddow]

Brand new polling from NBC News shows that more voters disapprove of President Trump than approve of him. By double digits, he's underwater by 10 points. And this is interesting among people who like Donald Trump, who really, really like they're starting to not like him as much anymore. Among Republicans, the percentage of them who say they are most enthusiastic about Trump, they're thrilled by Trump. That number of Republicans has dropped seven points since the last time this poll was taken in April. Even among self identified not just Republicans, but self identified MAGA supporters, the percentage of them who call themselves thrilled with Trump has dropped nine points just since April. People who really like him don't even like him as much anymore. There's a significant gap in enthusiasm right now between the people who are fired up in support of what Trump is doing and the people who are really fired up against him and also ready to go out into the streets to say so. The question is, what's the best strategy for this opposition movement going forward? Is there something that we can learn from other countries or from our own history that can help? At the flagship no Kings protest in Philly on Saturday, more than 100,000 people turned out in Philly alone. Historian Tim Snyder addressed the crowd. He urged everybody who came out to protest in Philly not to view protesting itself as the end goal, but to view it as the start of something bigger and more Sustained.

[Timothy Snyder]

We make a new friend here today and we do something with them tomorrow. We meet somebody we admire today and we do something with them tomorrow. We meet somebody who's a little more courageous than us today, and we do something tomorrow. Today, no kings. Tomorrow, freedom. There is a better America out there. There is a better America underneath. There is a better America that we can see. There is a better America that we can make. History is in our hands. No kings. No kings. No kings.

[Rachel Maddow]

Joining us now is Timothy Snyder, history professor, the author of On Tyranny and several other books about the rise of authoritarianism and indeed On Freedom. Professor Snyder, it's really nice to see you. Thank you for being with us tonight. So glad. Given your scholarship on authoritarianism and on democracies that have gone the way of authoritarian overthrow, what's your take on the state of the opposition to Trump right now in the United States? The strength and the healthy, the healthiness of this movement.

[Timothy Snyder]

So I would say we were a little bit slow out of the gate for the first few months. It was, let's face it, foreigners and bond markets and the internal contradictions of the Trump position. But I think we turned a corner in April. I think we're gaining speed now with these last protests, which, if they weren't the biggest in U.S. history, were awfully darn close. We had about 5 million people out, which is 50 or probably 100 times as many as Trump had out at his birthday parade or whatever that was. I think we're at a moment where, as you say, we've got people, we've got energy, we have creativity, we've got some courage. And it's time to think about what to learn from the past and what to do next.

[Rachel Maddow]

And what should we learn from what we've done as a country in the past, from what other countries have done, facing similar challenges. Is there, I know every circumstance is unique and every would be tyrant has his own spin on things, but is there, are there sort of, I don't know, bright lines that we should be aware of in terms of what works, what doesn't work, better directions to head at this point in the evolution of this kind of a movement?

[Timothy Snyder]

Yeah, one, one thing is that the unpredictability is part of the solution. So it's going to look ways that no one person foresees. Neither you nor I nor any of the specialists on this are going to predict exactly what it looks like. And the unpredictability is actually part of the winning strategy. You can't plan everything. You can't button everything down, new and interesting things are going to happen. That's one thing we learned from the history of social movements. They don't move like robots. They move like collections of human beings doing new things. And that's the second point. It has to be about the future. It can be about the present to some extent. Right. Like the no kings, you're against something, but it has to largely be about the present. You have to give people a sense that things could get better, much better, because. And that's true. They certainly can. A third thing to remember is that these things work as coalitions. So it's not us and them, it's people. It has to be people that we don't agree with about everything. It has to be people where they're protesting for the first time. It also has to include some people who were on. Who were on the other side, who voted for Trump. Those are some basic things. And the coalition point comes through very strongly from U.S. history. In U.S. history, when we have become more democratic, like with the women's suffrage movement or with the civil rights movement, there have been people responding to a crisis, and then they had allies who listened to them.

[Rachel Maddow]

In terms of nonviolence, obviously, we all know that nonviolent movements are more successful than violent movements. There's not going to be a civil war in this country, and this isn't going to be settled by military force. Talking about building a sustainable commitment to nonviolence and building up people's skills and resilience in terms of being nonviolent, especially as Trump tries to increase the specter of violence being associated with political dissent. Are there any sort of guardrails or bright lines that we should be thinking about in terms of how to build that? Obviously, we have the recent history of the civil rights movement to draw on with its richness and its spiritual basis. In terms of teaching that and leading in that way.

[Timothy Snyder]

Yeah, I mean, I just want to say a couple of comforting things here. The first is that they know that the moment that they reach out in that direction, they're going to lose. This is not a society where you can seriously imagine that using the military or using other organs of force to kill Americans is going to lead to something good for Donald Trump. He knows that. That the armed forces know it. We all know that that's a losing strategy. Not just a horrible moral catastrophe, but also a losing strategy. The second comforting thing that I want to say is that nonviolence, it isn't an absence, it's a presence. It's a way. It's a way of being. It's, it's the little bit of courage which gets you out there doing something unfamiliar. It's a little bit of courage that allows you to talk to somebody you didn't know before. It's that little bit more of openness that you have in a moment like this, rather than a little bit more of closed. So nonviolence isn't just stopping yourself from being violent. It's also a kind of openness to participate in things which leaves you feeling better afterwards.

[Rachel Maddow]

TIMOTHY snyder, HISTORY professor, the author of On Tyranny Tim, it's really nice to see you. Thank you very much for being here tonight.

[Timothy Snyder]

Thank God.

[Rachel Maddow]

All right. More news ahead here tonight. Stay with us.

[Nicole Wallace]

Introducing the WEEKNIGHT on msnbc, join hosts Alicia Menendez, Michael Steele and star Simone Sanders Townsend for a spirited conversation challenging each other and our leaders about the biggest issues of the day.

[Rachel Maddow]

It's about knowing what you are for.

[Amy Klobuchar]

Who you are for.

[Rachel Maddow]

That's what politics is about. It's engagement. We are going to dive deeper into the legal side of today's breaking news.

[Nicole Wallace]

The weeknight Monday through Friday at 7pm Eastern on MSNBC.

[Rachel Maddow]

As I mentioned at the top of the show, we are continuing to follow news out of Minnesota, where over the weekend a gunman shot and killed a Minnesota Minnesota state legislator, former House speaker and her husband and seriously wounded another state legislator and his wife. Authorities have now arrested a 57 year old man who's believed to have been behind these shootings. He's been charged with two counts of murder, two counts of attempted murder at the state level. He also faces six federal charges, including both murder and stalking charges. The FBI alleges that he first shot and wounded Democratic Minnesota State Senator John Hoffman and his wife, Yvette Hoffman. The suspect reportedly showed up at their home disguised as a police officer. He then, after those shootings, went to the homes of two other Minnesota state legislators, but was unable to carry out attacks at either of those locations. Eventually, he went to the home of Minnesota's House speaker, emerita Democratic Representative Melissa Hortman, where he shot and killed both Representative Hortman and her husband. Police have not yet publicly identified a motive for the shooter, but officials say he made hit lists that included more than 45 elected officials, all of whom were Democrats. Friends have described him as deeply religious and conservative and a Trump supporter. He had a history of public comments criticizing abortion. I mentioned that his first two victims, State Senator John Hoffman and his wife Yvette, were both wounded in the attack but are expected to recover. Last night we got a harrowing update on their condition from Minnesota US Senator Amy Klobuchar, who shared a text message that she received from Yvette Hoffman and the wife of the couple. It reads, quote, john is enduring many surgeries right now and is closer every hour to being out of the woods. He took nine bullet hits, I took eight. And we are both incredibly lucky to be alive. We are gutted and devastated by the loss of Melissa and Mark. Joining us now is Minnesota U.S. senator Amy Klobuchar. She was personal friends with Minnesota's House speaker emerita Melissa Hartman. She had dinner with her just hours before she was killed. Senator, I really appreciate you being here and let me just start by saying how sorry I am for you losing your friend.

[Amy Klobuchar]

Yeah, yeah, she was. I mean, you would have loved her. She was such a leader. When you think of all the Minnesota miracle of things that just happened the last few years with the school lunch and the work done on paid family leave, the governor's talked a lot about it. He did a lot of work. And Melissa was in the center of all of it, negotiating, bringing people with her. Just an incredible leader and a good friend. And her. Actually her kids just put out a statement for the first time. And I thought of this when I was watching all those incredible rallies that really buoyed my spirits from across the country, from Alaska to North Carolina. Her kids said the longer statement, but they just said this. They were the bright lights their parents, bright lights at the center of our lives. Their love for us was boundless. We miss them so much. The best way to honor our parents memory is to do something, whether big or small, to make our community just a little better for someone else. So as I watched those rallies and read this, I thought about, of course Melissa, but she deserves a better democracy and that's what she always stood for.

[Rachel Maddow]

I have to say when I heard the news this weekend and I heard that people were being advised in Minnesota because this killer was still at large at the time, that nobody should go out to any protests that anything you're planning on doing publicly on Saturday, this is obviously a person who's to going seems to be politically motivated. Don't protest on Saturday. Don't go out to still see thousands of people go out and protest and say we're gonna do it anyway. It was just overwhelming to see. I have to ask you how you feel about how the people of Minnesota have reacted in these few days.

[Amy Klobuchar]

They've been incredible. And I have to say I agreed with law enforcement on that front. They had to focus on this biggest manhunt in Minnesota's history. And they were still. It was. They were really beautiful, peaceful protests. It was fine, but I think the bigger volume would have been an issue. And as you said, they were still out there in a good way. That being said, what law enforcement did here is we've learned today that this madman actually visited two other lawmakers homes, state legislators homes, between the two shootings. He shot the Hoffmans as they still are hanging onto their lives. And then he went to another legislator's house who was out of town. Then he went to another legislator's house, and the police had already shown up there. And then they saw him and he drove away. And then he went and killed Melissa and Mark. So what we know, if the police hadn't gone to Melissa and Mark's home, and while they weren't able to save her, the Brooklyn Park Police, they were able to get the information they needed to track this guy down, or he would have killed many more people. So what the people in Minnesota feel right now is, of course, shocking, but they also have great appreciation for the work that law enforcement did. And I think this political violence is sometimes just like buzzword, right? And it's numbers. And we've seen these huge increases in threats, but for us, this is real. You look at Melissa's face, you think of the kind of person she was and how she was willing to work with Republicans, get stuff done. She believed in a cause larger than herself, and she died in that way. But we must do everything we can to bring down the tone. And these people that say this bad stuff, like Mike Lee did, they got to look in the mirror at what they're doing when they're just making fun of this or encouraging this. And then, of course, the stuff online, you know, I'm a big believer in putting some rules of the road in place and then just making sure there's protections for elected officials. And I appreciated Senator Schumer and Senator Thune and what they did this weekend.

[Rachel Maddow]

Minnesota U.S. senator Amy Klobuchar. Again, I'm really sorry for the loss of your friends, and I appreciate you being here to talk about it. I know it's not the easiest thing. I thank you. Come back soon. Thank you.

[Amy Klobuchar]

Thanks, Rachel.

[Rachel Maddow]

All right, we'll be right back. Stay with us. President Trump has a nominee to head the Federal Aviation Administration that you should know something about. He just had a Senate confirmation hearing a few days ago. Trump would likely not have needed to nominate A new head of the FAA had his top campaign donor, Elon Musk, not led a public campaign to force the last FAA head to resign. But anywho, that's how things go. Nail your donor wants the guy out, so he's out. So we need a new FAA leader. The FAA has been without a leader for months, during which time, of course, we've had a slew of fatal plane crashes and terrifying near misses. Needless to say, it would be really good right now if we have someone actually running the faa, preferably someone who could really inspire confidence. You can see where this is going, right? Yeah. Headline, Trump's FAA pick has claimed commercial pilot license. He does not have. Quote, president Donald Trump's nominee to head the FAA long described himself in his official biography as being certified to fly aircraft, aircraft commercially. Records examined by Politico show that he does not hold any commercial license. Brian Bedford's biography at Republic Airways, the regional airline where he has been CEO since 1999, said until Thursday that he, quote, holds commercial, multiengine and instrument ratings. But the FAA registry that houses data on pilots licenses does not list any such commercial credential for Mr. Bedford. The aviation news publication the Air Current appears to have been the first to raise questions about Mr. Bedford's pilot credentials. They wrote in April, quote, bedford is a pilot himself, although not a commercial pilot as he has sometimes claimed to be. Politico says Mr. Bedford did not respond to multiple attempts to request comments. So what should we make of this? How is the Trump administration going to explain away Trump trying to install someone as the head of the FAA who has fake pilot credentials? How are they going to explain this statement from the Transportation Department to Politico? Quote, brian never misrepresented his credential. It was an administrative error that was immediately corrected. Immediately. The agency did not respond to questions about what the error was or how it had been fixed. They're just going to call it an administrative error. And you can tuck that in with your lap belt right before you take off, right before you put your tray table up. It's administrative error. Don't worry, that'll do. Watch this space.

[Nicole Wallace]

It's conversation, it's perspective. It's the weekend on MSNBC with three new dynamic hosts, Jonathan Capehart, Eugene Daniels and Jackie Alemani. And in the evening, it's the Weekend Prime Time with Eamon Mohadin, Katherine Rampel, Elise Jordan and Antonia Hilton. Join them as they offer analysis on the week's most important events and set the agenda for the week ahead. The weekend at 7am Eastern and the weekend prime time at 6pm Eastern, Saturdays and Sundays on MSNBC.