Podcast Summary: "Exclusive: Former Vice President Kamala Harris Joins for an Extended Interview"
The Rachel Maddow Show | Host: Rachel Maddow (MSNBC)
Air Date: September 23, 2025
Overview
In this highly anticipated episode, Rachel Maddow welcomes former Vice President Kamala Harris for her first news interview since leaving office and her first since the 2024 election. The discussion centers on Harris’s new, candid memoir—107 Days—which details her fast, intense campaign for president, the defeat to Donald Trump, the shock and fallout within the Democratic Party, and her reflections on the state of American democracy. The conversation moves from personal experiences and lessons of leadership to the systemic threats facing democratic institutions today. Maddow and Harris also explore protest movements, Democratic Party renewal, and Harris’s personal future.
Key Themes and Discussion Points
Introduction: Setting the Stage
- Rachel Maddow introduces Harris’s memoir, 107 Days, recounting Harris’s unexpected, whirlwind presidential campaign after President Biden withdrew.
- Maddow highlights the frankness in Harris’s book about party support, disappointment in some Democratic leaders, and the broader institutional failures she believes contributed to Trump’s second victory.
- Maddow sets up the urgency of current events: threats to democracy, high-profile protests following the forced removal of Jimmy Kimmel from network TV, and the intense reaction from Hollywood, media, and the public (01:00-09:53).
The Reality of Capitulation (10:27-13:43)
Key insight:
Harris sharply criticizes the “capitulation” of America’s elites—media owners, corporate tycoons, law firms, and universities—to Trump’s abuse of power.
Notable quote:
“Democracy sustains capitalism. Capitalism thrives in a democracy. Right now, we are dealing with, as I called him at my speech on the Ellipse, a tyrant. ... These titans of industry are not speaking up. ... At some point, they've got to stand up for the sake of the people who rely on all of these institutions to have integrity and to at some point be the guardrails against a tyrant who is using the federal government to execute his whim and fancy because of a fragile ego.”
—Kamala Harris [11:15]
Discussion highlights:
- Harris explains her surprise at the speed and scale of elite compliance (“fecklessness”) after Trump’s re-election.
- She sees corporate and institutional leaders “groveling” and failing as protectors of democracy.
From Warning to Action: The New Fight (13:43-17:42)
- Maddow and Harris discuss the shift from warning about Trump’s threats to actively fighting institutional collapse.
- Harris urges recognizing that the current crisis ("high-velocity event") is the result of decades-long conservative planning, not merely the product of any one election.
- She calls for activism directed at failing institutions—not just opposition to Trump himself.
Notable quote:
“Part of what I write about ... is decades in the making, Rachel. It didn't just happen overnight. ... Project 2025 didn't just drop out of thin air.”
—Kamala Harris [15:08]
Memorable Moment:
Both discuss the rapid public mobilization that forced ABC to reinstate Jimmy Kimmel, showcasing people power versus corporate compliance (15:08).
Tactical Shift: Fighting Fire with Fire (17:42-19:01)
- Discussion moves to political tactics like gerrymandering. Maddow asks if Democrats should mirror Republican hardball tactics with redistricting.
- Harris explicitly endorses Democrats fighting “fire with fire” in response to Republican moves, especially as exemplified by California’s approach.
Notable quote:
“We tend to play by the rules. But I think this is a moment where you got to fight fire with fire. ... I support that.”
—Kamala Harris [18:21]
Humor and Resistance: Navigating Trump’s Provocations (19:01-22:52)
- Maddow highlights the humor and candidness in Harris’s memoir, quoting an episode where Harris refused to dignify Trump's attacks on her racial identity with an "Obama speech"-style response.
- Harris explains her discipline in not taking Trump’s bait, recognizing the need to focus on real issues rather than his distractions.
Notable quote:
“You can't get in the gutter with that guy because that is the way that he distracts from the fact that ... he promised the people who voted for him that on day one he'd bring down prices. ... He lied.”
—Kamala Harris [21:01]
The Biden Decision & Reckoning (24:40-29:18)
Key segment:
Harris confronts the controversy over President Biden’s late decision to end his reelection campaign and hand the nomination to her.
Notable quote:
“Was it grace or was it recklessness? In retrospect, I think it was recklessness. The stakes were simply too high. This wasn't a choice that should have been left to an individual's ego, an individual's ambition. It should have been more than a personal decision.”
—Kamala Harris (as quoted by Maddow) [25:39]
- Harris admits regret about not more forcefully urging an earlier decision, noting her unique constraints as VP.
- She emphasizes the unprecedented nature of the “107 days” campaign, the coalition it built, and the resilience that came from mass activism—particularly post-election protests.
Institutional Cowardice & Public Power
- Harris hammers the point that protest and pressure work—not just against Trump, but “over-institutional cowardice.”
- Echoes need to “shore up those guardrails” of democracy (mentioned in her book and during interview) [29:54+].
Spotlight on the Next Generation: The Stars Project (29:48-33:04)
- Harris describes her “Secret Project” as VP—identifying rising Democratic stars.
- Names Jasmine Crockett, Maxwell Frost, Robert Garcia, Zoran Mamdani, and other local leaders as examples.
- Emphasizes Democratic bench strength beyond “center of the world” New York.
On generational change:
- Harris will not generalize about age; says the test is “whether they offer something that feels dynamic and bold, especially at this moment” [32:26].
Threats to Rule of Law: Executive Overreach & DOJ (34:49-39:17)
- Maddow solicits Harris’s reaction to Trump’s orders to prosecute political enemies and his labeling of “antifa” as terrorists via executive decree.
- Harris warns the Supreme Court may not check Trump’s overreach, referencing its earlier ruling on presidential immunity.
- She acknowledges the courage of career Justice officials who have refused to comply with politically motivated prosecutions, but warns of dangerous new appointments (Republican appointees resigning/resisting abuse) [35:53-39:17].
Ticket Dynamics: The Pete Buttigieg Factor (39:26-42:15)
- Maddow probes Harris’s comments, from her book, that Pete Buttigieg was her personal first choice for running mate.
- Harris clarifies her rationale: concerns about electoral risk of a historic ticket (Black female president, gay male VP) amid high polarization and limited campaign time—not prejudice.
- Expresses sadness about the constraint for progress in representation.
Looking Ahead: Harris’s Political Future (42:15-43:02)
- Maddow asks if Harris might run for president in 2028. Harris demurs: “That’s not my focus right now.”
- She confirms she is not running for Governor of California, but leaves her broader future open.
Notable Quotes by Timestamps
-
“Democracy sustains capitalism. Right now ... we are dealing with ... a tyrant.”
—Kamala Harris [11:15] -
“What we are witnessing is a high velocity event. ... The swift implementation of a plan that was decades in the making.”
—Kamala Harris [15:08] -
“I support that. ... You want to play? Let’s get in the field, let’s get in the arena.”
—Kamala Harris, on aggressive Democratic gerrymandering [18:21] -
“You can't get in the gutter with that guy...”
—Kamala Harris [21:01] -
“Was it grace or was it recklessness? In retrospect, ... it was recklessness.”
—Kamala Harris, on Biden’s decision [25:39] -
“He's the Democratic nominee and he should be supported. ... We got a big tent, and we got a lot of stars.”
—Kamala Harris, on new stars like Zoran Mamdani, and the party bench [31:04, 31:19] -
“No, no, no. That's not what I said, that he couldn't be on the ticket because he is gay. ... I think Pete is a phenomenal, phenomenal public servant ... But when I had to make that decision ... maybe I was being too cautious.”
—Kamala Harris [40:21]
Memorable Moments
- Harris recounts a private, somewhat expletive-filled moment reacting to Trump’s race-baiting, underscoring the emotional reality of the campaign [19:09-20:32].
- Harris admits, with candor and some sadness, feeling she couldn’t push harder for Biden to leave the race—"as much as anything, I'm talking about myself" [25:39-26:13].
- Harris underscores the effect of public protest, not only on government but on “elites” and corporations (e.g., ABC/Jimmy Kimmel outcome) [15:08].
Additional Analysis & Commentary: Maddow & Lawrence O’Donnell (46:44+)
- After the interview, Maddow and O’Donnell discuss the implications of Harris's remarks, especially her criticisms of how the party handled the handover from Biden.
- O’Donnell shares personal anecdotes, including being credited in Harris’s memoir with first suggesting she run for president.
- Maddow emphasizes the importance of Harris’s diagnosis about institutional failure and the need for a reinvigorated “elite” that stands up to pressure.
Timestamps for Key Segments
| Time | Topic | |-------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:00–09:53 | Rachel Maddow’s intro, Harris’s campaign background, arrival, and book preview | | 10:27–13:43 | Harris on elite capitulation and institutional collapse | | 13:43–17:42 | Discussion: From prediction to resistance; institution-targeted activism | | 17:42–19:01 | Gerrymandering, fighting fire with fire, California example | | 19:01–22:52 | Humor & discipline vs. Trump attacks; racial and gender provocation | | 24:40–29:18 | The Biden transition, regrets, and lessons for the party | | 29:48–33:04 | Harris’s “Stars Project”; generational renewal and rising party talent | | 34:49–39:17 | Trump’s DOJ overreach, rule of law threats, courts, and prosecutorial resistance | | 39:26–42:15 | Pete Buttigieg as VP pick: demographic calculus, sadness, and candid admission | | 42:15–43:02 | Harris’s political future: 2028 run, governor rumors | | 46:44–63:41 | Post-interview analysis with Lawrence O’Donnell, personal anecdotes, and institutional context|
Tone & Style
The discussion is frank, reflective, sometimes humorous, and powered by a sense of urgency and resolve. Harris is unsparing in her criticism of both party allies and adversaries, but insists on the importance of optimism and collective action. Maddow’s probing, analytical tone keeps the conversation direct, insightful, and focused on lessons learned and next steps for American democracy.
Conclusion
This episode delivers a rare, unscripted look at how Kamala Harris interprets the Democratic Party’s recent defeat, the ongoing danger she perceives in Trump’s second term, and what she sees as the vital obligation for institutions and individuals to fight—not just warn—when democracy is at risk. Candid about her own regrets and the calculations behind hard choices, Harris calls not for despair but for strategic, collective resolve: “When we fight, we win.”