← The Rachel Maddow Show
The Rachel Maddow Show
January 6 becomes marker of Trump's degradation of wall between violence and politics in the U.S.
00:44:27
Rachel Maddow remarks on Donald Trump's embrace of the January 6 rioters and the insurrectionist militias that have declared themselves for him, pointing out on this peaceful January 6th the new implicit threat of violence if Donald Trump and Republicans in league with him are not assured electoral victories.
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Mel Robbins
Hey, it's Mel Robbins, host of the Mel Robbins Podcast. Let's just cut to the chase. There is a change you want to make right now, but you're waiting to feel motivated. You don't need motivation. You've got me. You can change your life anytime you want. And when you're ready, the Mel Robbins Podcast is here to help you with inspiration and simple science backed tools to help you create a better life. Listen to me and you'll feel motivated. All right, listen to the Mel Robbins Podcast now on the SiriusXM app today. Download it today. It's time to have your High Five moment with High Five Casino. The top social casino where the action and real prizes never stop. Fun spins and big wins are right at your fingertips. With over a thousand games including High Five Casino exclusives. High Five Casino is always free to play with free coins given out every four hours. Sign up today for a free welcome offer that can get you spinning and winning right away. Visit high5casino.com high5casino no purchase necessary. Void where prohibited by law. Must be 21 years or older. Terms and conditions apply. Hey everyone, it's Rachel Maddow. Here's a new thing and I think this is smart. I've done a whole bunch of podcasts for MSNBC and my podcasts are not sitting around chatting about the news of the day style podcasts. They are stories, they're long form, original, occasionally award winning original series. And now there is an easy place to get all of them. A permanent home where you can always find them. It's a new podcast feed that we've set up that's just called Rachel Mat. So the whole catalog of all the podcasts I've done is there and it's all free. So if you want to say binge the entire Bagman series about a crook in the White House, you can do that at the Rachel Maddow Presents podcast feed. The fact of the matter was he was a crook. You can also binge both seasons of Ultra and hey, let's face it, that remains disturbingly topical. He actually says outright, I intend to overthrow the US Government.
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Rachel Maddow
He's open about these object and his.
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Mel Robbins
Supporters are armed and ready. Bagman Ultra. Every episode of Deja News. All of them are all waiting for you on this new podcast feed. Again, it's called Rachel Maddow Presents. That's also where we'll put our new podcasts when they come out. We're working on a new one right now. Search for Rachel Maddow Presents and follow to listen to the entire catalog completely free or subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple podcasts for ad free listening. Thanks to At Home for joining us this hour. I'm really happy to have you here. Glad you're with us. So Gerhard Marcks was his name is a sculptor, a very famous sculptor, considered to be one of the greatest European sculptors of the whole 20th century. Gerhard Marcks was German, though. And during the Third Reich, when he was making his art, the German government, the Nazis, they decided that Gerhard Marx's art was degenerate. He wasn't Jewish, but he was fired from his teaching job in Germany after he tried to protect his Jewish students from the Nazis, after he protested against Jewish faculty members being removed from their posts at the school where he taught. So he lost his job as well. The Nazis didn't just fire him from teaching, they banned him from showing his work. They banned him from selling his work. Actually confiscated some of his sculptures and melted them down. They said they needed the metal to make weapons for the German army. So it was a little bit of a miracle that Gerhard Marcks survived World War II in Germany, but he did. It's even more of a miracle that some of his sculptures survived World War II in Germany, but they did. Not long after the end of World War II, in 1949, one of his surviving sculptures actually came to the United States. There was a big important international sculpture show in Philadelphia in 1949, and Gerhard Marx brought this statue to that show. It is 7ft tall. It's called Maya M A J A and it's considered to be a monumental work, but also representative of his style. It's exactly the kind of expressive, modernist, but very human thing that the Nazis hated about Earhart marks in his art. That said, Philadelphia loved it. The big public art association in Philly that had put on the sculpture show, they bought the sculpture from him. And for years it had pride a place. It overlooked the big famous terrace at the Philadelphia Museum of Art. A few years ago, they moved Maya to a new and probably permanent home. She's still in Philly, but the art association put her through a full conservation and renovation process and they built a park for her. It opened in 2021, and it's called Maya Park. And she is the centerpiece of this public space in Philly. It's right there in the Benjamin Franklin Parkway. It's kind of a lovely spot. Just before the election this year, somebody unexpectedly and without a permit, definitely without permission, put up a new sculpture right near Maya in that same park. It was near to the Gerhard Mark sculpture. It was behind her. In fact, actually, the way it was set up, it was kind of leering at her. And as you can see here, it is a Donald Trump statue. Somebody put up this Donald Trump statue in Maya park in Philly just before the election. And it is a statue of Trump, but it is not like a statue honoring Trump, at least not except in a very backhanded way. There's a plaque at the base of the Trump statue that has a little bas relief of Trump at the top. You see there with an American flag and it says in all caps in honor of a lifetime of sexual assaults. Quote, I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the. You can do anything. President Donald J. Trump that statue with that plaque on it went up in that Philadelphia park just before the election. City workers pretty quickly took it down because it didn't have permission. It was there without a permit. Around the same time, though, all the way across the country on the west coast, in Portland, Oregon, there was another one. In this case, it was near a statue by a Seattle based sculptor who's named Norman Taylor. This sculpture has been in Portland, Oregon on Southwest 6th Avenue downtown since 1975. Relatively famous local statue in Portland. This is also a bronze statue. Its name I will not try to pronounce for you. It's the Norwegian word for female nude. I cannot pronounce it in Norwegian, so I won't try. But this is a well known thing in Portland, downtown Portland. And about the same time that the kind of gross Trump statue went up near to the Maya statue in Philly, that same Trump statue with the same plaque went up here in Portland as well, near that other statue of a nude woman, quote, in honor of a lifetime of sexual assault. Now, both these statues went up just before the election in Philadelphia, as I mentioned, it was just city workers who took it down because there was no permit for it to be there. In Portland, they took a different approach. Somebody cut the statue's head off. And then a local pro Trump politician in Portland took a hammer and chisel to the plaque with Trump's quote on it and to the title about sexual assault. That's what happened in Portland. Then there was the one that went up at the Donald J. Trump State park In Yorktown Heights, New York, which is just about, I think it's like 50 miles north of New York City. This was a different statue, but it went up around the same time as the two leering statues of Trump with the quote about sexual assault. This one in the Trump park, however, this was a different message. It was a big, giant plinth, like a big pillar. And then you see how there's like a teeny, tiny little thing up on top, this huge pillar with a big plaque on it. And then a teeny, teeny, teeny little thing sitting on the top of it is a tiny little mushroom. And this one again has an explanatory plaque. This one was titled the very Large Donald J. Trump Monument. It says that in all caps on top, and then below that, it says, quote, this giant pillar pays tribute to President Trump. As you can see, this is a very large monument, definitely the largest. Despite this towering statue's impressive size, the President's former mistress, Stormy Daniels, knowingly slandered the President as having a, quote, smaller than average monument and claimed it is an unusual monument similar to a mushroom. She further went on to describe her interaction with his monument as, quote, the least impressive I've ever had. The plot continues. The circumstances surrounding her statements have been verified by a New York State court of law. This towering monument stands in defiance of these false statements so that we may all bear witness to the truth of this giant, very normal monument. And again, a teeny, tiny little mushroom at the bottom of the plaque and at the top of the very large plinth. And of course, Donald Trump continues to deny ever having had a sexual encounter with Stormy Daniels. He is due to be sentenced this week Friday, after he was convicted of 34 felony charges relating to him falsifying business records to cover up the secret payment he made to her to try to stop her from speaking publicly about what she says was their sexual encounter and all of its variously unpleasant, unsettling, or in some cases, pitiful details. So there's the leering Trump in Philly. There's the leering Trump in Portland. There's the teeny, tiny mushroom in Trump State park in New York. Then there was also this again, just before the election went up, around the same time, this one was a giant tiki torch. It was put up in Freedom Plaza near the White House. The plaque with this one explained that it was essentially commemorating Trump's praise for the white nationalists and neo Nazis Nazis who marched with tiki torches in Charlottesville, Virginia, saying things like, jews will not replace us. Somebody later destroyed the tiki torch statue in D.C. by smashing it to bits with a skateboard. Not sure exactly what was going on there but all of these works, again, all of these works of art went up right before the election. And of all of them, the one that got the most attention was actually another one that went up in D.C. nearby to the Tiki Torch statue. But specifically, it was on the National Mall. And it, you know, actually stayed up on the National Mall for kind of a long time. It went up in late October. It stayed up right through the election. The people who made it apparently properly went through the formal process of getting a permit to have this thing put up and stood up on the National Mall. So it was fully legal to be there. And it was there for a while. And this one on the National Mall got the most attention not only because of where it was, right there amid the monuments and everything on the Mall in Washington, but it also got attention because of what it was. The statue that went up on the National Mall before the election was as funny and shocking as all the rest of them. But the one in the National Mall was also a little unnerving in a different way, because the sculpture that went up in the National Mall just before the election was made of bronze. It was a desk that had some normal desk stuff on top, all cast in bronze. It had a landline phone and poster and file folders and maybe like a calculator or something else that size and shape. But then prominent pride of place, on the top of the desk, there's a nameplate showing that this is a representation of a desk in the office of former speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi. And right next to the nameplate on top of the desk, cast in bronze, is a big bronze, larger than life version of the poop emoji plopped there right on top of the desk. And once again, there's a plaque. It says, quote, this memorial honors the brave men and women who broke into the United states Capitol on January 6, 2021, to loot, urinate and defecate throughout those hallowed halls in order to overturn an election. President Trump celebrates these heroes of January 6th as, quote, unbelievable patriots and warriors. This monument stands as a testament to their daring, sacrifice and lasting legacy. Their lasting legacy. A bronze turd left on the National Mall for a few days around the election. Seems about right, actually. Seems about perfect. And of course, this is funny. Obviously, if you're like me and you have an eight year old sense of humor, permanently, for your whole life, literally anything involving a poop emoji or any reference to poop is always going to make you laugh. I will admit it. I am as complete, complete slave to poop humor. Absolutely. But in addition to this being funny, I think. I think the reason this one is equally funny and unnerving is because of the inherent juxtaposition. Right. Because this really is cast in bronze amid all the very serious stuff in the National Mall. We've got the plaques marking the historic sites and the big marble memorials and the cast bronze sculptures that are part of these memorials. Right? So to have a big version of the poop emoji in that context is funny, but it's also like a bad juxtaposition. It's repulsive. Right. And that's obviously what this is all about. You go back to the plaque, what it says there about the hallowed halls of the Capitol and people breaking in to loot and urinate and defecate inside those hallowed halls. That is, in fact, what happened on January 6th. And these are things that should not go together. Right? It's gross. Feels. It feels like whatever the civic version is of sacrilegious. It's repulsive to think of the hallowed halls and then people doing that inside them. It's repulsive. And I think that's sort of both how we're supposed to feel as citizens. I think it's how Americans generally do feel about mixing violence and politics. Right. When the two do get mixed together, it turns our stomachs. It doesn't feel like something that's supposed to happen. We don't know whether to laugh at it or kind of point and run, but it feels wrong. Here's another example. This is something that's on VideoTape. This is 2018 in South Florida, in Coral Gables, Florida. Look at Nancy Pelosi right here.
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Rachel Maddow
Look at this piece of. Right here. Look at this piece of the Pelosi right here.
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Mel Robbins
You don't belong here, you communist. Get the out of here. Get the out of here. So this happened at an event for a Democratic congressional candidate in 2018. Speaker of the House, then Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi was there. The local Republican Party in Miami, Dade county called for a protest at the event. And this is what their protest looked like. What's up, brother? Open up. It's the proud boys in here. Open up. It's the proud boys in here. Two things to know about this. The first thing to know is that when that guy says, hey, it's the proud boys here, he's right. The guy who was apparently filming that piece of video, the guy who is credited with having filmed that piece of video is Enrique Tarrio. The national head of the Proud Boys pro Trump paramilitary group, Enrique Tarrio, at the time lived in South Florida. He now lives in federal prison after being convicted of seditious conspiracy and sentenced to 22 years in prison for what sedition is, which is trying to overthrow the US Government. Enrico Tarrio's lawyer today just wrote to President Elect Trump, formally asking Trump to pardon his client. Enrique Tarrio's family have been publicly counting down the days until Trump is sworn in as president because they're convinced that Enrique Tarrio will be one of the January 6th felons who Trump pardons on the day of his inauguration. So that's one thing to know about that video of what happened that day in Coral Gables. The guy shooting the video, the guy screaming at Nancy Pelosi, filming people pounding on the door to try to intimidate her, saying, the Proud Boys are there. That guy is now in prison for trying to overthrow the US Government. But the other thing to know about that video is that the guy who he's actually filming doing the pounding on the door, this guy right here in the red circle, he has just been named by Donald Trump as his choice to be the next U.S. ambassador to the nation of Panama, because apparently that is what our country is looking for in an ambassador. Now, will you make yourself a physical menace for Donald Trump? Now, that man, who's now Donald Trump's ambassador pick after this happened in Coral Gables, he later defended his conduct there, saying he was just exercising his right to protest. At the time it happened, though, in 2018, Republicans were quite embarrassed by this. The head of the Miami Dade Republican Party apologized for being there, distanced himself from the Proud Boys. Other Republicans, including Florida Senator Marco Rubio, condemned the action, said Republicans should never do anything physically intimidating like this. Well, now Marco Rubio is about to be nominated to be Donald Trump's Secretary of state, where the guy pounding bloody murder on the door to try to scare Nancy Pelosi and smiling up at Enrique Tarrio when he says, it's the Proud Boys in here. That guy will be reporting to Marco Rubio as one of America's next U.S. ambassadors. And the reason that's repellent, the reason that is sort of instinctually repulsive to us, is because supposed to be a sharp line that keeps violent intimidation on one side of the line and politics on the other. And never the twain shall meet in a Democratic country. Those things are supposed to be separate. And so today, January 6, the certification of the last presidential election happened in Washington. And it just happened. Ministerially and ceremonially like it's supposed to. And that contrast with what happened today versus what happened four years ago makes clear the profound difference between the two parties. Right. Had had Democrats won the presidential election this year, the whole country openly expected and was preparing for Republicans to go into violent, if not armed, revolt. But because instead, Republicans won, everyone expected and in fact, we saw today that Democrats would peacefully accept and participate in the transfer of power. And when a whole country expects guaranteed violence, if one side loses in an electoral contest, then the two political parties in that contest are no longer competing in Democratic terms anymore. One of those parties is a small D and capital D Democratic Party. The other party is something else. So that is part of what we are contending with on this January 6th. How do we ever get our democracy back now because we have, in effect, lost it. How do we ever get back to competition in Democratic terms? Which means specifically, how do we get the Republican Party and the Trumpist right to no longer see physical force and armed conflict as the way they're going to get their way and hold power? One big step backwards from that as a goal will be Trump's promised pardons of the people who committed violence in his name on January 6, 2021, the ones who earned themselves that bronze statue of Nancy Pelosi's desk on the National Mall that briefly memorialized the physically repulsive and scatological nature of their actions inside the Capitol. I mean, the argument now appears to be in Republican circles not whether Trump is going to issue pardons to people who took part in that attack on the Capitol, but just how many pardons he's going to issue. Will he pardon them all or will he just pardon some of them? That has led publications as diverse as the Huffington Post and the Wall Street Journal editorial page to try to front page to try to resurface the details of the crimes for which some of these people were convicted, to try to make it seem even to try Trump, even to Trumpist Republicans. Like maybe these convictions were sound and should stand, quote, Andrew, take pepper sprayed police officers defending the Capitol on January 6, 2021, and hit one with a metal whip. He is serving 74 months at a federal prison in Beaumont, Texas. Christopher Alberts carried a loaded 9 millimeter pistol onto Capitol grounds that day and hit police officers with a wooden pallet. He's serving an 84 month sentence at the federal prison in Milan, Michigan. Stephen Cappuccio, his cell phone in his mouth so he could beat an officer using both of his hands, including with the officer's own baton. He's doing 85 months at the federal prison in Forest City, Arkansas. All three will be back on the streets if Donald Trump, the man who incited them and some 2,000 others to attack the Capitol in the first place, follows through on his oft repeated pledge to pardon the January 6th insurrectionists. Of those serving a year or more in prison, a full 57% are there following a conviction in involving an assault on a police officer. In all, 83% serving a year or more were convicted of committing an act of violence. Which means that with few exceptions, the only people Trump could release from prison with his pardons are those who attacked a police officer, possessed weapons or explosives, or were convicted of some other violent felony. Are those going to be the ones he springs Here was the deeply conservative Wall Street Journal editorial page today. It's titled Trump's pardon promise for January 6th rioters. Does it include the ex meth trafficker who brought a metal baton and swung it at police? On December 20, a prison sentence of 48 months was given to a 31 year old man named Joshua Lee Atwood who pled guilty to assaulting law enforcement. He emptied a can of pepper spray at them with a pole and pelted them with objects such as a metal scaffolding pipe. He yelled that the cops were pieces of the prosecution. Sentencing memo says his criminal history includes a pending felony case for an alleged 2023 stabbing on December 17, meaning last month a 60 month sentence was given to Michael Bradley, age 50, who apparently went to the Capitol on January 6 with his own metal baton in a hip holster. He swung it at police more than once. His list of priors includes 2002 conviction for meth trafficking. Also in December, a 24 year old man got nine months for having thrown an equipment container lid that beamed a cop, causing momentary loss of consciousness and a suspected concussion. A 41 year old man who wore body armor on January 6th pled guilty to scuffling with police, including trying to seize an officer's baton while shouting come out here B word. Other active cases include accusations of ramming the police line, punching cops and walloping riot shields with a baseball bat. The Wall Street Journal editorial page continues, quote, this was the brutal reality of the Capitol riot that many want to forget. Pardoning such crimes would contradict Mr. Trump's support for law and order and it would send an awful message about his view of the acceptability of political violence done on his behalf. Now, as I mentioned, this is the Wall Street Journal's editorial page Deeply conservative. I would take issue there with their characterization of Mr. Trump's support for law and order. He has repeatedly praised the idea of violence in his name for every year that he has been in public life. And so I would take issue with that. That said, that last line I read there from the Wall Street Journal is absolutely correct. Quote, it would send an awful message about Trump's view of the acceptability of political violence done on his behalf, the acceptability of political violence done for him in his name this January 6th. 6th. Yes, we have got very blunt evidence of the profound difference between the Democratic Party offering Democratic competition win or lose, and the Republican Party's threat of violence to hold power. And yes, there is also the unnerving and occasionally unsettling fight to remember what actually happened, to be real about how disgusting it all was. While the Trump movement and the Republican and the conservative media tries to say the January 6th attack was really just a bunch of heroes who were so peaceful and loving and they've just been wrongly persecuted for doing nothing wrong, the effort to remember and to stick to the truth of what happened there and not be gaslit and lied to, that it was some sort of day of love and peace is unnerving and unsettling and, yes, occasionally hilarious. But there is also a very instrumental and practical question at hand this January 6th, which is what happens to the future of political violence in our country in the very short term in like the next year, if the people who committed violence on Trump's behalf are sprung from prison by him and celebrated as vindicated heroes who did nothing wrong. Starting two weeks from today, when Trump takes office again, again, think about this in big picture terms. Why does a leader who celebrates violence against his critics and his enemies want not just a government, not just the state, to do his bidding? He also wants his mob. He also wants his paramilitary groups, people who have proven themselves willing to commit violence on his behalf. Why does he want the mob? Why does he want his paramilitary groups? Why does he want his violent ex cons? He wants to set them all free at the start of his presidency so they can do what for him. The idea that there is permeability between violence and politics, that an incoming president might want a deniable, non government violent force that he can activate or direct to do his bidding, that what is supposed to be civic hollowed ground might be fouled by rioting and looting and people doing what they did in Trump's name on January 6, that is supposed to repel us and disgust us indelibly. We are never supposed to acclimate to that. But the Trump side has. And this artwork was temporary. And so now, this January 6th, what should we be prepared for next? With two weeks left before he's back in power, I know just who to ask next. This is Republican Congressman Andrew Clyde. Watching the TV footage of those who entered the Capitol and walked through Statuary hall showed people in an orderly fashion, staying between the stanchions and ropes, taking videos and pictures. You know, if you didn't know the TV footage was a video from January 6th, you would actually think it was a normal tourist visit. A normal tourist visit, said Republican Congressman Andrew Clyde. Is this you? Republican Congressman Andrew Clyde, is this you? The guy in the red circle holding up a piece of furniture to try to barricade the House floor while all those normal tourists were trying to break down that door on January 6th? If this is the way you react to every normal tourist visit to the Capitol, remind me to never be a tourist near you. Looks dangerous. For what it's worth, Congressman Clyde has repeatedly said those remarks were taken out of context, but he has declined to answer questions about what the proper context might be. Also, consider his colleague, Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace. It was a sad day for our nation. I was shocked. I was heartbroken, and I was pissed off and angry by seeing this violent mob. How do we hold a president accountable that put all of our lives at risk? How do we hold a president accountable that puts all of our lives at risk? How? Turns out, if your name is Congresswoman Nancy Mace, you endorse that president to be president again after he did the thing that made you. That you said, made you so angry and afraid for your life. Nancy Mace was so committed to holding that guy accountable, she actually endorsed Trump over Nikki Haley, who is not only from her home state of South Carolina, Haley actually is her constituent and lives in her district. Want one more? Here's one more. This has been a truly tragic day for America. Violence in any form is absolutely unacceptable. It is anti American and must be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. It is anti American. It must be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the. You see what? You. You. You see where this is going for now, right? Right. I have concerns about the treatment of January 6th hostages. They must be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I mean, there are hostages. We must free them. Them. It is one thing to sugarcoat the facts of what happened on January 6, 2021. It's another thing entirely to contradict your own personal, individual assessment of what happened that day, especially when it didn't happen all that long ago. It is a phenomenon that is funny and embarrassing, but it's not slowing down on its own just because it's funny and embarrassing. It requires a pushback, some of which it's getting today from people like Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren, a Democrat who was one of January 6th investigators in Congress. Congresswoman Lofgren saying today, quote, I have no respect for Donald Trump, but I do have respect for the process and for American voters. He was elected president, and we will certify that election today. The funny thing is some of these members, the day after January 6th, four years ago, they were condemning Trump and decrying the violence. Now it's as if it didn't happen. So it's sort of a lesson in propaganda, if you will. But ultimately, she says it will not succeed. And I have faith in America. Joining us now is Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren, a Democrat from California. Congresswoman Lofgren, I'm really appreciative of your time tonight. Thank you for being here.
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Zoe Lofgren
Happy to be here.
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Mel Robbins
When you say it won't work, it will not succeed, I have faith in America. Can you share with me the reason for that optimism?
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Zoe Lofgren
Well, you can't undo history, Rachel. As you know, one of the good things that our January 6th committee did was to document everything that we found and then to post it freely available. You can go to the Government Printing Office website and all of the material is there. There's videos, there's radio traffic, transcripts, et cetera. And so you can just click on the exhibits and see the riot. It's right there. And I would encourage people who post on X or read things. If you see some of these ridiculous things that Republican members are saying, it was just a tourist visit. Just take a 20 second clip of the riot from the Government Printing Office website and let that be your reply. Because in the end, what happened is what happened luckily, and I'm so grateful to the Capitol Police, I've been touching base with members who were hurt on that day and their family members, just to let them know how much I appreciate what they did. They saved my life, they saved the democracy, and they are appreciated. And some of this nonsense that's being said by my colleagues, they know they're lying doesn't undercut the heroism that they showed on that day and the significance of what they did. So in the end, the truth will out.
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Mel Robbins
You say that they know they're lying. And you described it, I think, powerfully today as this being a lesson in propaganda. What do you think is the purpose of this propaganda effort? What do you think is the purpose of these lies? What is the end game for denying that January 6th happened the way that we know it did?
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Zoe Lofgren
Well, it's what Trump wants. Number one, he knows, remember the day after he issued really a video apology. We can't make that go away either, can we? He knew what happened and he apologized for it. But now, because he was wrong and he can never be wrong, right, we have to turn the facts upside down and make it seem as if it didn't happen. And unfortunately, some of my cult like colleagues are willing to accommodate him, him in that effort to try and clean up the mess that he did on that day, the violence that he encouraged. He summoned the mob, knowing they were armed. He sent them down to the Capitol to overturn the election, essentially a coup d'etat. The police officers stopped him and we came close. We came close. But democracy survived that day. And I will say I don't like Donald Trump. I don't respect him. But he was reelected president. And so we did what our job was today, which was to count the electoral count votes and certify the obvious that he won. I'm sorry that that's what voters chose, but it's their decision, not the Congress's decision.
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Mel Robbins
Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren, Democrat of California, member of the January 6th investigation in Congress. Thanks for being here. I know a lot of demands on your time on this day. I really appreciate, appreciate you being here with us.
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Zoe Lofgren
Anytime.
- [37:02]
Mel Robbins
All right. Much more to come here tonight. Stay with us. This is a military base, an air base in honduras. It's about 50 miles from the capital of that country. It's called Sotokano. The United States has been at this base in Honduras for decades. The largest US Military task force in Central America operates out of this base. This is the base where US Presidents and vice presidents have flown into and been received by Honduran officials for more than 40 years. Soto Kano is a big part of America's military footprint in Central America, but it is not technically an American base. The base belongs to Honduras. And the US Just uses it under a long standing agreement with that country's government. Well, just a few days ago, in a New Year's Day address to her country, the president of Honduras said that the United States is not going to be able to use that anymore. She said if Donald Trump starts mass deportations of immigrants when he takes office, Honduras effectively reserves the right to kick the US military out of that base, which has more than 1,000 US personnel at it right now and that we've been using for decades. She said, quote, faced with a hostile attitude of mass expulsion of our brothers, we would have to consider a change in our policies of cooperation with the United States, especially in the military arena. Without paying a cent for decades, they maintain military bases in our territory, which in this case would lose all reason to exist in Honduras. That news from Honduras comes on the heels of some other really interesting news from the Vatican today. Pope Francis appointed a new Archbishop for Washington, D.C. now, Washington, D.C. is not the biggest Catholic diocese in the country, but it is very influential for all the obvious reasons. And for this very influential post, Pope Francis chose Cardinal Robert McElroy. Cardinal McElroy is known as an outspoken defender of immigrants. In 2016, for example, after Donald Trump was first elected, McElroy said if the new Trump administration was going to embark upon the pathway of massive deportation, then, quote, the Catholic community must move immediately to wide scale opposition. And we must move with the same energy, commitment and immediacy that have characterized Catholic opposition on the issues of abortion and religious liberty in recent years. Of Trump's threats to do mass deportations, McElroy said, quote, the church can never acquiesce or cooperate with such a grave evil in our society. Quote, we must label this policy proposal for what it is, an act of injustice which would stain our national honor in the same manner as the progressive dispossessions of the Native American peoples of the United States and the internment of the Japanese. Welcome back to Washington, President Trump. That's your new archbishop. The closer we get to Inauguration Day, the more we are learning about the character of the pushback that is materializing against what Trump says he wants to do. That list also includes one state attorney general who now says there's a very specific part of what Trump has threatened to do that he's already planning his fight against. And that official joins us live here next. The president elect has been talking up his first day plans for a while now. Long enough to compile a day one to do list that is dozens of items long 59 boxes to check on day one, according to a list compiled by Axios. End the Russia, Ukraine war. Day one. Nearly three years of grinding conflict. Trump says he will settle it in a day. Also pardon the people who attacked the Capitol on January 6th. Day one. He says he'll get going on that in the first nine minutes. Begin mass deportations. Day one. Round up at least 11 million people living in the United States also end birthright citizenship. Birthright citizenship is the idea that if you're born here, you're a citizen. It's something that isn't just a basic idea about who's an American. It's explicitly and indelibly in the Constitution. But Trump says he plans to just cancel that day one that is being met with the promise of a fight from one state's top law enforcement official, from the Attorney General of Connecticut, Attorney General William Tong, saying, quote, I would be the first to sue. It is beyond clear what the law states. Joining us now is William Tong, Attorney General of the great state of Connecticut. Mr. Attorney General, thanks for your time tonight.
- [42:02]
Rachel Maddow
Thanks, Rachel.
- [42:04]
Mel Robbins
So what was it about this Day One pledge, this birthright citizenship pledge that Trump is making, that grabbed your attention?
- [42:11]
Rachel Maddow
Well, it's very personal for me and millions of Americans. Like millions of Americans. My parents came here with nothing. My dad had 57 citizens cents left in his pocket, to be exact, when he arrived in Hartford, Connecticut, they opened a Chinese restaurant. And when I was born, they were not yet citizens. I was the first American born in my immediate family. And in one generation, I've gone from working with my parents in our hot Chinese restaurant kitchen to being to being the attorney general of our state. And that was all made possible by the right of my birth, the right to be an American citizen, a right that it's given me an opportunity to have the education, the employment opportunities, the jobs that I've had that have given me the opportunity to run for office. It is the enduring promise of America. It's what Ronald Reagan referred to birthright of citizenship as a part of our essential character and its core to the American dream.
- [43:10]
Mel Robbins
Trump seems to think that he can undo it with some sort of executive action, despite the fact that birthright citizenship is in the Constitution. How do you expect this fight to unfold if he tries to do what he says he's going to try?
- [43:24]
Rachel Maddow
Well, I know my fellow attorneys general are committed to stopping him. We're going to be a firewall for the American people, for immigrants, for not just on immigration, but also reproductive freedom, for the environment, against gun violence. We are going to use the law as a sword and as my friend Tish James says, also as a shield. Protect our states. And the 14th Amendment is very clear. If you're a conservative, if you're an originalist, if you're a textualist, the 14th Amendment means what it says, that if you're born on American soil or under the jurisdiction of the United States of America, you're an American period. And the Supreme Court confirmed that in Wong Kim Mark, a celebrated Supreme Court case. You know, more than 125 years ago.
- [44:11]
Mel Robbins
There is an ugly and underappreciated history in this country of trying to strip people of their citizenship when they come under fire by one political faction or another. It has never succeeded before. I have a feeling we'll be seeing you and your fellows. Attorney General, fellow attorneys general, fighting another successful fight along these lines. Sir. But keep in touch with us as this unfolds. I'll be eager to see how the strategy works here.
- [44:36]
Rachel Maddow
Thank you, Rachel.
- [44:38]
Mel Robbins
Connecticut Attorney General William Tong. We'll be right back. Stay with us. For the past two days, there's been an outpouring of appreciation and admiration for former President Jimmy Carter as he's been lying in repose in Georgia. This is a live image at the Carter center in Atlanta right now. In the first 24 hours alone, more than 10,000 people went to pay their respects. Tomorrow his remains will go to Washington. He'll lie in State for two days at the U.S. capitol. Members of the public will be able to pay respects in Washington starting tomorrow night and then from 7am Wednesday till 7am Thursday. And then his state funeral will be Thursday morning at the Washington National Cathedral. The funeral itself is going to be closed to the public, but you can watch it here live on MSNBC Thursday morning. Our live coverage will start 6:00am Eastern. All right, that does it for us tonight. Hey, this is Jeff Lewis from Radio Andy live and uncensored. Catch me talking with my friends about my latest obsessions, relationship issues and bodily ailments. With that kind of drama that seems to follow me, you never know what's going to happen. You can listen to Jeff Lewis live at home or anywhere you are. Download the SiriusXM app for over 425 channels of ad, free music, sports, sports, entertainment and more. Subscribe now and get 3 months free offer details. Apply.