Colonel Jack Jacobs (10:55)

We're doing this for the other parts of the world.

Rachel Maddow (11:01)

We're doing this for the other parts of the world. We're doing this for the other parts of the world. I'm sure they're delighted with that. We're watching right now the dignified transfer of the remains of Sergeant Benjamin Pennington, 26 year old sergeant from the 1st Space Battalion, 1st Space Brigade based at Fort Carson, Colorado. He's from Glendale, Kentucky. You see, the transfer case was moved into that transfer vehicle as they now close it after the arrival there at Dover Air Base. You also saw civilian officials, the Vice President and the Defense Secretary there, as well as the chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Joining us now is retired U.S. army Colonel Jack Jacobs. He is a recipient of the Medal of Honor for his service during the Vietnam War. Colonel Jacobs, can you just talk to us a little bit about what we're seeing and why this happens the way it does at Dover?

Colonel Jack Jacobs (12:02)

Well, it didn't used to happen. When we had lots and lots of casualties during the war in Vietnam, we lost in some weeks 1,000 troops. It didn't happen. And at that time, we had a draft. This was not long after the end of the Second World War when we had 19 million people in uniform and everybody knew somebody who had served, every household had made a contribution to the defense of the country. And then we decided that we were going to have a. We were going to have a volunteer force. We weren't going to have a draft. And the result of that is that most Americans do not know anybody in uniform. And when the military instrument of power is used and people are killed, this ceremony, and I think the Defense Department would say it's not a ceremony, but it's a ceremony, is vitally important for the American public to see it, because in the past we knew what the cost was, and now we don't because we don't know anybody in uniform. But this is the cost of the use of the military instrument.

Rachel Maddow (13:27)

I also remember in the post 911 wars, significant controversy and political debate over the then George W. Bush administration wanting to make sure that there was no media coverage, that there were no cameras at events like this, at these solemn events at Dover. Even as the family may have been there, even as some public officials may have been there, they did not want the public to see these things. That is a debate that I think was soundly settled in favor of people believing there ought to be public access, such as it is, to these events. But it is limited, as you can tell here from this footage that we have got. This is not live. This happened just moments ago. We don't take this footage live. We only take it on a slight delay. Also, we don't air any audio from these ceremonies. Very tightly constrained so that we can see it, but are also held a little bit at a remove. Do you think those kinds of restrictions are appropriate, given the sort of purpose of us being able to see this that you were just describing?

Colonel Jack Jacobs (14:32)

Well, it's very solemn, and maybe not having audio is a worthwhile thing to do. You know, you mentioned that the war in Iraq and we've been in the Middle east for a long, long time fighting. And it's interesting to note that at the beginning of the war, Secretary Rumsfeld argued strenuously that we should not have any press coverage at all of what was happening in the Middle East. And I think it was Tory Clark, as his press advisor, his communications advisor, I think that that's who it was at the time who argued that we needed to have that. And the result was that we wound up with press embedded with units. And the argument was, it's vitally important that the American public see what is done in their name. To be sure, we need to do whatever we can do in order to protect the United States, our allies, our interests everywhere around the world. But whatever is done to do that, it's important that the American public always be informed of what it takes to get it done, whether or not it's getting done and when it's over, when it is over that we've accomplished our objectives or have not accomplished our objectives. So full and complete disclosure is vitally important for the health of the Republic, but also it's important for the kids who are out there fighting. It's important that the public knows who's out there, what they're doing, and the efforts in service and sacrifice that are made on their behalf. Rachel?

Rachel Maddow (16:29)

Yeah. Made very, very real by these images we've just had tonight. Colonel Jack, it is always an honor to have you with us whenever you can have time to be here, especially on a night like this. I appreciate you being here, sir.

Colonel Jack Jacobs (16:43)

Thanks for having me on the program.

Rachel Maddow (16:45)

All right. That dignified transfer again for Sergeant Benjamin N. Pennington, 26 years old, of Glendale, Kentucky. We'll be right back. Stay with us.

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Rachel Maddow (18:38)

The classified report by the National Intelligence Council, quote, found that even a large scale assault on Iran launched by the United States would be unlikely to oust the Islamic Republic's entrenched military and clerical establishment. Unlikely to oust Islam, the Islamic Republic's regime, a sobering assessment as the Trump administration raises the specter of an extended military campaign. The findings were confirmed to the Washington Post by three people familiar with the report's contents. They raised doubts about President Trump's declared plan to, quote, clean out Iran's leadership structure and install a ruler of his choosing. So this is a Trump administration intelligence product. This is an analysis produced for Donald Trump by the National Intelligence Council, which is veteran intelligence analysts who are in charge of crafting intelligence assessments for all 18 of the US government's 8, 18 different intelligence agencies. And the National Intelligence Council has advised the Trump administration, has advised the White House that even a large scale assault on Iran launched by the United States will not be likely to oust Iran's regime. Why are we doing this anyway? Joining us now is Congressman Jim Himes, Democrat of Connecticut. He is the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee. Congressman, it's really nice of you to make time to be here this evening. Thank you.

Congressman Jim Himes (20:03)

Good to be with you, Rachel.

Rachel Maddow (20:06)

So we've just seen the images from that solemn event at Dover Air Base, that dignified transfer of the remains of the seventh U.S. service member to have been killed in this war. We have just spent the last few days, the weekend, including today, watching, watching the economic shock of this war and its repercussions resonate all around the world in ways very large and very small. In multiple countries all over the world, if not every country in the world, the ramifications of what we're doing are deadly and very, very wildly serious. Do you think you understand why we have done this, why Trump started this war?

Congressman Jim Himes (20:53)

Well, we finally got a consistent rationale from the secretary of state, from Marco Rubio. I first Heard it in a Gang of Eight meeting in the. On the Tuesday prior to the attack. We heard it as the attack was underway, and we've heard it a variety of times since. And the problem is it's a profoundly dissatisfying rationale. So what did Marco Rubio tell us? He said that we were sure that the Israelis were about to launch an attack. We were sure that when the Israelis launched that attack that the Iranians would retaliate against us, and therefore we had to join the Israelis. And Rachel, it's on the face of it, so it's as though we're Liechtenstein, as though we have no leverage over the players in the region. And of course, we do have rather substantial leverage, or at least partnership with Israel. And there were all sorts of options, but that was the rationale. And then, of course, we got the President freelancing his own rationales, which it was about the attempts to kill him or the nuclear facilities which we were told were obliterated. But nonetheless, if you go with the Secretary of State's explanation, which he's repeated multiple times, we were passive and reactive bystanders in the single most serious thing that we can do, that is get involved in war and a war in the Middle East. And I don't need to punctuate that point because we all just watched the dignified transfer of the remains of a young soldier, Sergeant Pennington, who was with us a week ago and who is no longer with us. And that just punctuates why this is probably the most serious decision a president can make taken completely unseriously.

Rachel Maddow (22:39)

Do you believe Marco Rubio when he gave you that explanation? I mean, I hear you. That it's at least somewhat consistent, and that at least he might be the one person of the administration who said the same thing twice, rather than iterating some new version of an explanation every single time they're asked for an answer about it. But does it strike you as plausible that that is the reason that we did it? As bad a reason as that is. Do you think it's true?

Congressman Jim Himes (23:08)

First of all, I don't spend a lot of time with Donald Trump, but I can only imagine what it's like to be in his war council. Right. Because my suspicion is that every hour or so, the rationale and the emotional temperature and the objectives change. You just need to watch Donald Trump in a news conference to know that that is most likely true. So my best guess is that the President realized that Iran was imminent, danger notwithstanding, because that explanation, of course, is both wrong, a lie and insane. Considering that Iran, as vicious and as dangerous as they are, are weaker today, relatively speaking, than they have been for a very long time because of the 12 day war of June and because of the bombing of their nuclear infrastructure. My guess is that Donald Trump, probably listening to Prime Minister Netanyahu, who for 40 years this has been his primary objective, decided that he could secure a role in history. And my guess is that the Secretary of State, and I do, I do emphasize that these are my guesses because I wasn't in the room. My guess is that the Secretary of State was doing a lot of backfilling and not particularly well. Again, his explanation makes it sound as though we are reactive and passive bystanders rather than, you know, a superpower.

Rachel Maddow (24:26)

What do you make of the reports that Russia has been providing targeting information to Iran to help them in killing, killing American service members and targeting American military and other infrastructure in the Middle East?

Congressman Jim Himes (24:39)

Yeah, obviously gotta be a little careful about talking about said reports if they exist, given my role on the Intelligence Committee. But one way to think about this is, duh. The United States has been making no secret of its effort, halting though it may be, to help the Ukrainians. And you can imagine what Vladimir Putin thinks now that we have a substantial portion of our military capability exposed in the region. So, I mean, I'll just, I'll leave it at that.

Rachel Maddow (25:17)

Democratic Congressman Jim Himes, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee. Sir, thank you for your time this evening. It's really good to have you here.

Congressman Jim Himes (25:24)

Thank you, Rachel.

Rachel Maddow (25:25)

Alright, we got much more news ahead here tonight. Stay with us.

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Rachel Maddow (26:54)

this was Texas today. A delegation of Democratic members of Congress, Congressman Joaquin Castro of Texas, California Congresswoman Nanette Barragan, Julia Brownlee and Sarah Jacobs, Massachusetts Democratic members of Congress Catherine Clark and Jim McGovern, and Congresswoman Madeleine Dean of Pennsylvania. They were all in Texas today. They all specifically went to the Dilley immigrant prison in Texas today. Dilly is about an hour outside of San Antonio. These members of Congress went there to get the Gamez Cuellar family out of that prison. The Gamez Coiar family is a family from Texas. They have two teenage sons who are part of an award winning band at their high school. Because of that band membership, they were invited to Washington, D.C. by their Republican Congresswoman, Monica De La Cruz. They and their band visited the White House and they performed in Washing. And then after they got home, the two brothers from that family and their parents were arrested by Trump's federal agents. One of the brothers and the parents were locked up in that hellhole, that family prison in Dilly, Texas. The older brother, the one who's 18, he was separated from his younger brother and his mom and dad. He was locked up on his own three and a half hours further south in Texas, in Raymondville, Texas. But all members of the family got out today after a lot of news coverage about what has been done to this family. And after these seven, seven members of Congress got into Dilley to get them out, the other facility that was just holding the older of the two teenage brothers, the older of the two high school boys in this family. This was Raymondville, Texas this weekend. Local folks there rallying for the older teenage son in that family who was separated from his family and locked up there all along. Today he got out from Raymondville as his mom and his dad and his younger brother got out from Dilley. And Congressman Castro is now helping the whole family get home. The largest ice prison anywhere in the country is also in Texas. It's way out in West Texas on the Fort Bliss military base. They call it Camp East Montana. They only opened Camp East Montana in August. Already at least three people have died there, including one whose death was ruled a homicide by the county medical examiner. A homicide at the hands of staff at that facility. They wanted Camp East Montana to hold 5,000 people, but they never got the numbers there close to it, what with the people dying there and the measles outbreak there and the freaking tuberculosis there. Seriously, they've now reduced the number of people held at Camp East Montana to roughly 1500 people. Within the past few days, there have been reports that they may be closing Camp East Montana altogether. And of course, it's all quite opaque. The Washington Post reporting that it looks like Camp East Montana is closing down. The El Paso Times obtaining an internal email that suggests, okay, maybe it's not closing down, but you know, it's clear even from their inability to fill that facility, that that facility, their largest facility thus far, has been a failure for them thus far. I mean, just in terms of the scale of this thing, the largest federal prison, like real prison in the United States, holds 4,000 people. Why did they think that under the wise, experienced leadership of Kristi Noem, they'd be instantly able to stand up a massive facility even larger than the largest federal prison in the United States? And it wouldn't just be one. They want to stand up massive facilities all over the country, all of which will hold way more people than the largest federal prison in America. I mean, Camp East Montana is the biggest one they've tried to operate yet at 5,000 beds. Right. It is already a catastrophic failure and is limping along now with multiple disease outbreaks and multiple deaths. And it's only at roughly 30% of its 5,000 person capacity. So tell me how it's going to go when they try to open these new facilities they're trying to build in these warehouses to hold not 5,000 people, but 7,000 people, 8,000 people, 10,000 people, 14,000 to 16. 16,000 people are the highest numbers they have proposed for some of what they're calling these mega facilities. You think they're capable of running those? Looks like they're about to close the one they tried to build for 5,000 people. The first one they tried. This was a protest this weekend in Georgia against plans to build a 10,000 person Trump prison camp in Social Circle, Georgia. Donald Trump is telling the people of Social Circle, Georgia that it doesn't matter that they don't want. It doesn't matter that their sewer system can't handle. It doesn't matter that their water system can't handle it. That little Republican voting Georgia town is going to be forced to take a 10,000 person Trump prison camp that will triple the population of their town to hold people indefinitely without trial and without access to lawyers. And I say that because I mean it specifically. New York Times notes today that in the blueprints that have been made available for that facility in Social Circle, Georgia, among other problems in the blueprints, there do not appear to be any facilities whatsoever for the people being held there to meet with lawyers there. And that's because this is honestly, this is a black site prison to hold people without trial and without access to legal representation indefinitely. That is what all of these places are that they are trying to build. There were protests this weekend in 13 states. More than 70 different protests in 13 states this weekend, all targeting Citizens Bank, Citizens bank, headquartered in Providence, Rhode Island. Citizens bank is being targeted because activists say they provide financing to the private companies that have been running Trump's immigrant prisons thus far. Citizens bank, as I say, headquartered in Rhode Island. That meant that a lot of these protests this weekend were in New England. But they were all over. They were all over. You see the sign here at Concord, Massachusetts on the left hand side, Boycott Citizens bank. And the overpass sign on the right there. Akron, Ohio, Citizens bank funds ICE Camps national boycotts effort now for a bank purported to be financing Trump's immigrant prisons. There was also this protest this weekend in New Mexico at the site of Jeffrey Epstein's former ranch. People protesting at the site of that ranch for full disclosure and for full accountability for people involved in Jeffrey Epstein's abuse of girls and women and his sex trafficking ring. I should tell you, that ranch in New Mexico, Jeffrey Epstein's ranch in New Mexico has a new owner now. That ranch was bought secretly just a couple of years ago by a Texas Republican named Don Huffines. H U double F I N E S Huffines. You might have seen his name in headlines this week because he was just nominated by Texas Republicans last week to be their nominee for state comptroller. Honestly, Texas Republicans just nominated for statewide office. The proud new owner of Jeffrey Epstein's ranch, Mr. Huffines, has not been accused of any wrongdoing related to Epstein's crimes. But Texas Republicans must just be so proud. They own Epstein's ranch. I'm sure they got a great deal. Speaking of Republicans, core message to voters for the election this year in Arizona today, we learned that the Trump administration subpoenaed records from the 2020 election from Maricopa county, which is where Phoenix is in Arizona. You might remember after the 2020 election, which Donald Trump lost to Joe Biden both nationwide and specifically in Arizona. You might remember after that election, the Republican controlled Arizona Senate contracted seriously with a company that called itself Cyber Ninjas, and they spent taxpayer money on that contract to do a bizarre circus of an audit of the Maricopa county ballots from the 2020 presidential election. And at that audit, among the things they did was they checked the ballot paper to see if it might have bamboo fibers in it because that would mean China did it. China stole the election. Cyber Ninjas sadly and surprisingly went out of business not long after their bizarre audit adventure with Maricopa County's ballots. But today we learned that the same Republican controlled Arizona Senate that contracted with Cyber Ninjas to do that to their 2020 ballots today we learned they also have happily complied with a Trump administration subpoena of some kind to hand over all the Maricopa county elections data that still exists from 2020. No word on if that included any test strands of bamboo or maybe ninja outfits. This comes on the heels of a number of luminaries from the QAnon movement starting to explain to various podcasters that they themselves have drafted an executive order that Trump is going to sign to proclaim a national emergency of some kind over the 2026 midterm election. QAnon celebrities say they've written the executive order and they're now just waiting for him to sign it. So, I mean, that's about how it's going, right? I mean, job creation under Donald Trump was literally negative last month. The US economy under Donald Trump lost 92,000 jobs last month. Over the past year while Trump's been in office, the country has lost nearly 100,000 manufacturing jobs. Specifically cuz remember how his tariffs were supposed to save US Manufacturing. He's finally had to fire his Homeland Security secretary, Kristi NOEM. There are 3, 4, 5 hour waits at some airports now for airport security because that's Kristi Noem's department. So that's going great. His efforts to build himself a huge new network of massive prisons where he can hold people without trial and without access to lawyers. Those efforts appear to be either floundering or revealed as just patently insane. Everywhere he's trying to do it, local residents and voters and politicians of both parties rejecting those Trump prison camps outright in every single place he is trying to put them them. Gas prices have now spiked as high as they've ever been while he has been president, with the worst still to come as the war he started for no discernible reason causes the worst energy world shock in at least 50 years. The Trump era is really rising up to its full height right now with Republicans in Washington today starting to crater in a whole new way. And that story is next. Stay with us. I mentioned a moment ago one awkward situation playing out for Republicans heading into this November's elections. The statewide candidate for Texas state comptroller turns out to have secretly bought the New Mexico ranch that was owned by notorious sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein. He bought the Epstein ranch and now he's the Republican Party's candidate for statewide office for state comptroller in Texas. Must have a great head for numbers, this guy who secretly bought Jeffrey Epstein's ranch. It has made for awkward headlines already, even though Don Huffines has not been accused of any wrongdoing in the Epstein case, even though he says any request from law enforcement to search the property will be met with immediate access and full cooperation. It's still going to be awkward for Texas Republicans all the time when his ownership of Jeffrey Epstein's ranch keeps coming up over and over again during the course of 2026 heading into the November election. Just today, New Mexico investigators began a new search of the property. A good reminder to all Texas Republicans that that's their guy, the Jeffrey Epstein ranch owner guy. It's expected to be a difficult election season for Republicans for a lot of reasons. Their biggest challenge will likely be keeping control of Congress in November. Already the Republican majority is slow, so slim in the House, they can afford to lose only one vote on any party line issue. Well, today California Republican Congressman Kevin Kiley announced that he's leaving the Republican Party. He wants to serve his swing district as an independent from here on out. Congressman Kiley says he will still caucus with the Republicans, but of course, he now has every political reason to try to distance himself from his party on any high profile vote he has to take. Meanwhile, several other House Republicans have essentially become very lame ducks. Say Texas Republican Congressman Dan Crenshaw, who lost his primary. He's going to be out of office next year. Does he have to show up between now and the end of his term? It's up to him. Texas Republican Congressman Wesley Hunt also gave up his seat in the House to come in third in the Texas Senate race. Congressman Hunt already had a terrible attendance record in Congress. What reason does he have to show up now, now that he's given up his seat? Texas Republican Congressman Tony Gonzalez how about him? He agreed not to seek reelection after an affair with a staffer who later died by suicide. If Tony Gonzalez remains in the House, which he says he plans to do, he'll have to face an ethics investigation. What's the likelihood that he's going to keep showing up? If he quits, the ethics investigation just goes away. See also Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace of South Carolina, who has recently bucked her party specifically on the issue of Jeffrey Epstein. Congresswoman Mace is also giving up her seat to run for governor, so what incentive does she have to stick around in the meantime? She is also facing a House ethics investigation over an alleged misuse of taxpayer dollars. She denies that wrongdoing, but any investigation would go away if she were to step down before her term is finished. Republicans new to expect a fight for control of the House in November I'm not sure they expected this much of a fight for control right now, like Monday, today, and from here on out. All right, that's going to do it for me. For now.

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