Media reports prompt Trump to end plan to brief Musk on secret potential war plans for China

Summary

The Rachel Maddow Show: Episode Summary Title: Media reports prompt Trump to end plan to brief Musk on secret potential war plans for China
Release Date: March 22, 2025
Host: Rachel Maddow, MSNBC
Episode Focus: The Trump administration's controversial decision to brief Elon Musk on classified war plans against China, the subsequent reversal, and broader implications for national security and federal policies.

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1. Trump's Intended Briefing of Elon Musk on China War Plans

The episode opens with a significant revelation from the New York Times: the Trump administration planned to brief Elon Musk, Trump's top campaign donor, on highly classified operational (O) plans against China. Rachel Maddow underscores the gravity of this move, highlighting Musk's deep ties with China, including his substantial loans, manufacturing operations, and involvement with the Chinese government.

Rachel Maddow [04:10]: "If a foreign country was to learn how the US planned to fight a war against them, that country could reinforce its defenses and address its weaknesses, making US war plans far less likely to succeed against that foreign adversary."

The plan faced immediate backlash, leading to a swift reversal as reported by the Wall Street Journal. Trump administration spokespersons later denied knowledge of the briefing, attributing the report to misinformation.

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2. Implications for National Security

Maddow explores the potential national security risks of sharing such sensitive information with an individual as intertwined with a foreign government as Musk. She presents two scenarios:

1. Trump Authorized the Briefing: This would represent a severe breach of national security protocols, compromising the U.S.'s strategic defense mechanisms against China.
2. Musk Secured Unauthorized Access: Suggests potential internal malfeasance within Trump's circle, allowing a non-military advisor access to classified information.

Rachel Maddow [07:30]: "Either the President ordered the Pentagon to give away the most highly sensitive and valuable national security secrets we most desperately want to keep away from China, or the President did not order that."

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3. Judicial Challenges and Transgender Military Ban Reversal

The episode covers a court ruling against the Trump administration's attempt to expel transgender service members from the U.S. Military. The judge ordered the reinstatement of all affected individuals by 5:00 PM Eastern Time, criticizing the administration's misleading portrayal of the ban.

Rachel Maddow [09:15]: "I am not going to abide by government officials saying one thing to the public... like I'm an idiot."

This victory signifies a stand against the administration's attempts to undermine rights and disregards judicial oversight.

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4. International Travel Warnings and Federal Service Cuts

Maddow highlights that countries like Germany, Finland, Denmark, and the UK have issued travel advisories against visiting the U.S. due to erratic actions by the Trump administration. Additionally, the episode delves into cuts to the National Weather Service, resulting in reduced weather balloon launches critical for accurate weather forecasting.

Rachel Maddow [12:45]: "It's not like there's ever any weather in those places, right? So that will probably be fine indefinitely."

Further federal agencies facing cuts include the National Forest Service, Institute of Museum and Library Services, and the Education Department, with significant implications for public services and infrastructure.

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5. Targeted Attacks on Social Security Administration

A substantial portion of the episode focuses on the Trump administration's aggressive moves against the Social Security Administration (SSA). President Trump announced plans to fire over 12% of SSA staff and shut down numerous local offices, forcing beneficiaries to seek services in person rather than remotely—a drastic shift impacting millions of elderly and disabled individuals.

Chris Hayes [31:28]: "If any of them complain when we cut it off, which we should, then you know, they're criminals."

Secretary of Commerce, Howard Lutnick, controversially stated that victims wouldn't complain unless there was fraud, absurdly linking actual beneficiaries to criminal activity.

Howard Lutnick [34:36]: "Anyone who's been in the payment system knows the easiest way to find the fraudster is to stop payments and listen."

Maddow and co-host Chris Hayes present real-life stories of SSA beneficiaries adversely affected by these policies, emphasizing the human cost of administrative neglect and policy shifts.

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6. Public Outcry and Protests Against Federal Policies

The administration's actions have sparked widespread public protests across the country. Constituents have aggressively confronted their lawmakers during town halls, demanding stronger opposition to Trump's policies and the influence of Musk.

Rachel Maddow [25:15]: "It's careening 100 miles an hour into an authoritarian wall right now."

Notable protests include large-scale rallies led by figures like Senator Bernie Sanders and Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, drawing tens of thousands in places like Denver, Colorado, showcasing a robust grassroots movement against perceived authoritarianism.

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7. Elon Musk's Faltering Predictions and Tesla's Decline

The show critiques Elon Musk's history of overpromising, citing multiple failed predictions concerning Tesla's autonomous vehicles timeline. Musk's credibility suffers as Tesla's stock plummets over 50% in three months, and consumer confidence wanes amid recurring recalls and quality issues.

Chris Hayes [19:18]: "He's talking about Social Security checks to elderly and disabled people. Stop the payments and listen. Whoever screams that's the one stealing."

This decline contrasts sharply with Musk's earlier influence, raising questions about his current role and the sustainability of his ventures amidst political entanglements.

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8. Deportations to El Salvador and Human Rights Concerns

The episode addresses the Trump administration's controversial deportations to El Salvador, highlighting cases like Andre, a gay makeup artist with no criminal background. Reports from photojournalist Philip Holzinger depict inhumane treatment upon arrival, including physical abuse and detainment without clear legal recourse.

Chris Hayes [38:08]: "We will keep you updated."

This segment underscores the administration's aggressive immigration policies and the resulting humanitarian crises.

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9. Expert Commentary and Call to Action

In an interview, Martin O'Malley, former commissioner of the SSA, condemns the administration's actions as a direct assault on a vital safety net for millions of Americans. He urges viewers to mobilize, contact Congress, and resist efforts to dismantle foundational social services.

Martin O'Malley [43:35]: "We need to all... stop this steal before it's completed."

O'Malley emphasizes the moral imperative to defend Social Security, framing the struggle as central to American identity and democracy.

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10. Conclusion and Forward Look

The episode concludes with a reflection on the turbulent political climate, highlighting the interplay between executive actions, public resistance, and the degradation of trust in federal institutions. Rachel Maddow reinforces the importance of informed citizenry and active participation in safeguarding democratic values.

Chris Hayes [40:29]: "Now is the time. So we're gonna do it."

Listeners are encouraged to stay engaged through upcoming segments, including discussions on "The Last Word" with Ali Velshi, focusing on the Democratic response to ongoing challenges.

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Key Takeaways:

• National Security Risks: Sharing classified war plans with individuals lacking military oversight poses severe threats.

• Erosion of Federal Institutions: Systematic cuts and administrative chaos threaten essential services like Social Security and weather forecasting.

• Public Resistance: Nationwide protests and community activism signal strong opposition to perceived authoritarian actions.

• Accountability Matters: High-profile figures, including Elon Musk, face scrutiny over their roles and statements amid political turmoil.

• Human Impact: Policy decisions have tangible, often devastating effects on vulnerable populations, highlighting the need for compassionate governance.

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This summary encapsulates the critical discussions and insights from "The Rachel Maddow Show" episode aired on March 22, 2025, providing an in-depth overview for those who have not listened to the full episode.

Transcript

[Rachel Maddow]

Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts New episodes of all your favorite MSNBC shows now ad free plus ad free listening to all of Rachel Maddow's original series, Ultra Bagman and Deja News and all MSNBC original podcasts are available ad free and with bonus content including why Is this Happening? Felshey Band Book Club and more. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

[Chris Hayes]

Happy Friday. Really happy to have you here. There is a pattern in the news cycle when Donald Trump is president. It was true in the first term, apparently it's going to be true in the second term too. And I don't want to read too much into what we know about him, like as a human, but it would appear that he is a guy who stays up late and sleeps late. You'll notice there aren't a lot of morning events that happened at the White House that happened at the White House while he's president, given that as far as he's concerned, the government is basically just him. The fact that he's a late night late sleeper guy in the first term, and it appears now in the second term again creates a news cadence in which often there isn't really anything new in national politics or in national news coming out of Washington in the morning papers that wasn't there from the night before because in the morning the king is snoozling. So nothing happens early in the day, but then he ultimately, you know, wakes up and starts lumbering around and wrecking stuff. And so we have this news cadence when, when Trump is president where the news starts to pick up each day just in the mid afternoon and then by nighttime it's going fully nuts. That was what was true in the first term. It seems to be following that same cadence in the second term. And just as the news follows those rhythms over the course of the day while Trump is president, it also sort of holds as well for the week in general. What we experienced in Trump's first term was that stuff goes more nuts on Fridays than it does on Mondays because I guess he like gets momentum or whatever that appears to be happening in this second term as well. All that said, it means it's particularly good to have you here this Friday night and every Friday night because by Friday night stuff is generally going great guns and tonight is no exception. So we got a lot to get to tonight. A big story on Social Security that I really think is very important and really want to talk with you about. But we got a bunch of updates to do on stuff that has been developing over the course of the day. First of all, a big update on a story that broke last night while we were on the broke, while I was talking to Tim Walls on the air, we got a live reaction from him here on it during the show. This was the New York Times report, this insane story late last night that the Trump administration was planning this morning, Friday morning, to give Trump's top campaign donor the US Military's detailed, highly classified operational plans that we as a country would follow if we ever went to war with China. Now, Elon Musk, the President's top campaign donor, is of course deeply involved with the Chinese government. He has multi billion dollar outstanding loans with China. He not that long ago wrote a pro China essay for the Chinese government's censorship agency. The majority of Tesla cars now are manufactured in China. That is where he has his largest factory. And he built that factory with direct involvement from the Chinese government. So, yeah, I mean, in case it's not super obvious what the problem would be here in him getting our war plans for going to war with China, the New York Times last night, in this shocking report that they were going to read him in on those very highly classified plans. They, they kind of spelled it out in even more simple terms than you might expect from a regular newspaper on a regular story. They spelled it out basically in crayon. They made it so pain painfully simple what was wrong with this plan that maybe the White House even couldn't fail to understand it. This is what the Times said, quote, it was unclear what the impetus was for providing Mr. Musk such a sensitive briefing. He is not in the military chain of command, nor is he an official advisor to Trump on military matters involving China. Pentagon war plans, known in military jargon as O plans or operational plans, are among the military's most closely guarded secrets. And here's where they switched to crayon. If a foreign country was to learn how the US Planned to fight a war against them, that country could reinforce its defenses and address its weaknesses, making US War plans far less likely to succeed against that foreign adversary. If you have a war plan with a foreign country, don't show that plan to the foreign country just in case you ever have to go to war with them, because it'll mean your war plan won't work. Get it? Do you guys get it? You want me to say it more slowly? I mean, the Times might as well have put it in all caps on a single page with a picture menu, right? Elon Musk is arguably more thoroughly and uncritically in bed with the Chinese government than any other business person who calls him or herself an American. But as of last night, according to the New York Times, Donald Trump was planning on giving him America's most detailed military plans on how exactly we would wage war against China if we ever had to, despite his deep involvement with the Chinese government. Yeah, that Times report came out last night while we were on the air. By this morning. Nope. Wall Street Journal headline, trump says Elon Musk won't get briefing on Pentagon's China war plans. Yeah, quick reversal on that. And I think there are two things to see in that reversal. Number one, hey, journalism, Neat. When journalists find out something is happening in the government and that thing is plainly indefensible, sometimes that makes the government stop trying to do that thing. That's why it's a good thing to have journalism, so we the people can find out about bad things. And maybe that stops some of those bad things in their tracks. But secondly, given his track record, I don't tend to believe things the President says just because he says them. But in this case, I'm a little bit tempted to believe him, or at least to consider the possibility that he might have been telling the truth when he told reporters this morning or today that he didn't know this so called briefing on the China war plans for Elon Musk was happening. He didn't. He didn't know about it. He just heard about it in the New York Times. He told reporters today that once he heard about it, because of the Times reporting, he quote, contacted White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth to ask them, hey, what's this brief thing that you guys are doing for Elon now? Is he telling the truth there? I don't know, but pick your poison. Either the President ordered the Pentagon to give away the most highly sensitive and valuable national security secrets we most desperately want to keep away from China. He either ordered that we give away those secrets to his top campaign donor, who is very close to the Chinese government, or the President did not order that, which means his top campaign donor arranged that for himself and almost got it and would have gotten it until the New York Times spilled the beans, which stopped it. Either way, do you feel like our national security is in steady hands? Did you vote for Donald Trump because he was going to be tough on China? How we doing? Today was another bad day in court for the Trump administration, specifically on their effort to try to kick all transgender service members out of the US Military. The federal judge overseeing a challenge to that ban in Washington today just tore the bark off the Trump administration lawyer who's been trying to defend what Trump is doing there. That judge today ordered that the plaintiff service members who've been put on administrative leave by Trump, the judge ordered today that they must all be taken off administrative leave and reinstated by 5:00pm Eastern Time. Tonight, the judge also in court, in open court, just excoriated the Trump administration lawyer effectively for lying about what the Defense Department has been doing in this case. The judge said, quote, the court is not going to be gaslit. The secretary of defense called it a transgender ban. This idea that you can just come in here and pretend, or have us pretend that what's happening is not actually what's happening is, is totally unacceptable. Everyone knows what this ban is intended to do. Everyone knows. The judge said. Again, this is all in open court. The judge said, quote, I am not going to abide by government officials saying one thing to the public, saying what they really mean to the public, and coming in here to the court and telling me something different, like I'm an idiot. I am not an idiot. So that happened today. Also, we've now just in the last few days seen some of our closest friends and allies issue travel warnings advising their citizens to think twice about traveling to the United States because of new risks associated with traveling here. These are travel warnings against coming to the United States that are being issued for citizens of Germany and Finland and Denmark and the UK by the governments of those countries. We are no longer seen as a safe place to travel because of the arbitrary and unpredictable and in some cases, just bizarre behavior of the Trump administration toward people who are here legally visiting from other countries. Today also, we got news that the National Weather Service has announced that in yet more locations, Trump's draconian and indiscriminate and as yet, like undefended, like inexplicable cuts to the National Weather Service mean that we no longer are going to be able to launch weather balloons in multiple locations. Weather balloons are how we collect the data that is the backbone of our daily weather forecasts in multiple sites all over the country. They launch these weather balloons twice a day. And those balloons feed atmospheric data into the mathematical models that predict how the weather is going to develop, which is how we get weather forecasts. We had previously reported, reported on them having to cut weather balloon launches in Maine and in Alaska and in Albany, New York. Now, because of Trump's additional firings in the National Weather Service, they are having to cut weather balloon launches to one per day rather than two per day in Nebraska, South Dakota, Colorado, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Wyoming. And because of Trump's cuts to the weather service, they are now cutting weather balloon launches entirely. They are down to zero per day, specifically in Omaha, Nebraska, and in Rapid City, South Dakota. But, hey, it's not like there's ever any weather in those places, right? So that will probably be fine indefinitely. The cuts to the National Forest Service are such now that Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski has resorted to posting Facebook videos of herself outside the Mendenhall Glacier Visitor center just outside Juneau. Senator Murkowski, in this video posted to Facebook, basically pleading for understanding over the fact that every single employee who operates that visitor center in Juneau, every single employee, except for one, has just been terminated by Donald Trump. She says the first Alaska cruise ship of the season is due to arrive in Juneau in less than a month. This visitor center is one of the most visited places for the thousands of people who come to Juneau on these types of ships. But now Trump has fired every single person who works at that visitor center for the Forest Service, except for one. So sorry, Alaska. Donald Trump has also just ordered an immediate halt to shipments of vegetables and poultry to US Food banks, particularly in rural areas. No warning. He has just cut them off from millions of dollars worth of produce and poultry. These are USDA shipments to U.S. food banks. TRUMP ordered the shutdown of the Institute of Museum and Library Services, which, among other things, means that Trump is cutting off technology support for libraries, including their Internet connections. Trump has cut off summer reading programs for kids at libraries. He has just cut the funding for, say, interlibrary loans. He has just cut the funding that lets your local library provide you free access to old newspapers and other historic records, which millions of Americans use for basic research on things like real estate or genealogy research on their own families. Trump has ordered the cut. Trump has ordered an end to the funding for all of those things. Trump has also ordered, as of yesterday, the shutting down of the U.S. education Department. In so doing, today he announced that the millions of people who have federally supported student loans will now have those loans handled by the Small Business Administration, instead shutting down the Education Department. So the Small Business Administration will now handle federal student loans. The Small Business Administration doesn't do anything like that. They never have. They don't have the capacity for it. These are millions of individual student borrowers they will now be responsible for. They do not have the capacity to do it. And on the same day that he announced they would be now handling millions of individual federal student loans. He also announced that the Small Business Business Administration will now fire More than 40% of the people who do work at that agency, just as they are getting this huge new workload. And on top of all that, there's also big news today, which I mentioned, just almost unbelievable news about what Trump is doing to Social Security and what his administration thinks that will do to people who get Social Security benefits. We've got that coming up for you tonight. You are definitely going to want to see it. It involves a Trump cabinet official on tape saying something that shouldn't exist in American politics, but it happened. And we've got that for you coming up tonight. But before we get to that, there's one other piece of this that honestly shouldn't be at all part of reporting about what's going on in the US Government. But hey, these are crazy times. So needs must I mentioned at the top, right at the top, this bizarre story about President Trump's top campaign donor, Elon Musk, somehow reportedly being slated for the kind of high level war plans briefing that no campaign donor should ever be invited to. On the eve of that planned briefing last night, Elon Musk apparently found time to convene an all hands meeting for employees of his car company, Tesla. They called this all hands meeting for every employee of the company for 9pm last night. They scheduled it as a livestream event on Twitter, which is owned by Mr. Musk. The live stream promptly crashed and shut down for about half an hour. They eventually apparently got it restarted, whereupon Mr. Musk got online with his employees at his car company and he begged his employees to not sell their stock in Tesla, which many Tesla executives and board members have recently done. He told his employees that things were about to become immeasurably better, unimaginably better. What's the most exciting future that you could possibly imagine? Quote, a future of abundance for all, where you could literally just have anything you want. Elon Musk explained to his employees that these unimaginably good times are right around the corner. He told Tesla employees literally, quote, hang on to your stock. He told them there are times when there are rocky moments, a little bit of stormy weather, but I'm here, here to tell you the future is bright and exciting. He also told them that they should feel good about this, these reassurances from him and definitely not sell their stock the way his executives and board members have been. They should really feel good about his assurances about the future because he has such a good track record of his predictions coming true. He explained this to his employees last night, which occasions. I feel like it's only fair. Just a reminder of what his predictions have actually been like over time. This, for example, was Elon Musk speaking in 2017.

[Elon Musk]

I think we're still on track for being able to go cross country from LA to New York by the end of the year. Fully autonomous.

[Chris Hayes]

So by the end of the year, you're saying someone's going to sit in.

[Howard Lutnick]

A Tesla without touching the steering wheel, tap in New York, off it goes. Won't have to ever touch the wheel. By the end of 2017.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah, essentially November or December of this year, we should be able to go from all the way from a parking lot in California to a parking lot in New York. No controls touched at any point during the entire journey.

[Chris Hayes]

Amazing. Imagine if you like, imagine if you were in the audience of that event, looking back now in 2025 and realizing that you might have been one of the people who applauded that. Did you buy stock, too? Yeah, I love the part where he's like, November, maybe December, like he thinks it's speaking in 2017. He's like, by November might be December, but then we'll have. This was in the following year, in 2018, saying, yeah, actually rescheduled. Now it's going to happen by 2019.

[Elon Musk]

I think probably by end of next year. Self driving will encompass essentially all modes of driving and be at least 100 to 200% safer than a person by the end of next year. We're talking maybe 18 months from now.

[Chris Hayes]

So that was him in 2019 saying, no, no, no, I was him saying it would all be done by 2019. This was him in 2019 saying, no, no, maybe it'll be done by 2020, but by then it's not going to be your own car by then it's going to be taxis. The taxis are going to be driving themselves by 2020.

[Elon Musk]

I feel very confident predicting autonomous rover taxis for Tesla next year, autonomous robo.

[Chris Hayes]

Taxis for Tesla next year by 2020. Luckily, you know, by the time none of these things came to pass, when he said they would come to pass, none of us cared because as of then, meaning as of now, we're all living on Mars.

[Elon Musk]

I think if things go according to plan, we should be able to. Should be able to launch people probably in 2024 with arrival in 2025.

[Chris Hayes]

Again, like, he's just doing the math right there. You see him squint. We're going to be how long Will it take to 2024? We're going to be shooting people off to Mars and they'll get there by 2025. Confident here it is, 2025. Mars isn't nearly as hot as I thought it would be. These are the kinds of predictions that he has used to stoke the hype around himself and his companies year after year after year after year. It's a running joke, right? His predictions. But the faith in Elon Musk and in all the things that he can see coming true in the future has driven him to the position that he's in now with our US Government. Meanwhile, in his actual businesses, Tesla stock has lost over 50% of its value in the past three months. Edmunds.com just reported that more people are trading in their Teslas than ever before. The share of Teslas among all cars they're seeing being traded in is 300% higher right now than it was this time last year when JP Morgan radically slashed their forecast for Tesla sales this quarter. Their analyst said this week, quote, we struggle to think of anything analogous in the history of the automotive industry in which a brand has lost so much value so quickly. And that was before we found out that they were recalling nearly all cybertrucks on the road for the eighth time. This time for the risk of pieces of the body coming loose and flying off in traffic. And weirdly, that kind of thing shouldn't have to factor into news about the government of the United States. But these are strange times and fired up times. Members of Congress have been on recess this week. Many of them left DC to spend time in their home districts, which means that many of them have been holding town halls at home to talk to their constituents. Many of their constituents are confused and scared and mad about what's been going on with Elon Musk and Donald Trump in Washington. We've been covering them on the show all week. We've been covering things like this on the show since the very beginning of the Trump administration. Just this week, though, there have been so many, we haven't been able to show you all of them. Here's just a snapshot. This was Golden Colorado on Wednesday. Totally full house, absolutely packed auditorium. This is a town hall hosted by Democratic Congresswoman Brittany Petterson and Democratic Senator Michael Bennett. They got an absolute earful from their constituents, basically asking them to fight harder. Particularly Senator Michael Bennett got an earful from people telling him to stand up more strongly against Musk and Trump. People were very angry with him for vot to confirm some members of Trump's Cabinet. Watch this. It really doesn't seem like there's a plan. I know that you say. I know that you say that we are the founders and we are the leaders, but come on. I feel like you're talking pretty. Step up or step aside. Step up or step aside. Constituents furious with Senator Michael Bennet for having done anything other than stand up to Trump, particularly voting for some of his cabinet nominees. This is Poughkeepsie, New York, Wednesday this week. Full house. Around 800 people showing up to Democratic Congressman Pat Ryan's town hall. Look at that room. Another full room in Frederick, Maryland, this week to hear from Democratic members of Congress Jamie Raskin and April McLean Delaney. So many people showed up. And Frederick, Maryland, they had to turn people away because there wasn't enough room and they didn't have an overflow set up. In Concord, California, last night, Democratic Congressman Mark DeSaulnier spoke to a packed crowd inside a high school gym. You know, and it's not just Democrats holding town halls and it's not just Democrats showing up to them. Here's some local news coverage from Salt Lake City, Utah, last night from a town hall held by two Republican members of Congress. Congresswoman Celeste Malloy and Congressman Mike Kennedy watch applauded for being there.

[Rachel Maddow]

But both representatives taking on an angry and boisterous crowd. Main concerns were around the cuts from Doge and a powerful executive branch. Those concerns even shared by Republicans. It's careening 100 miles an hour into.

[Chris Hayes]

An authoritarian wall right now.

[Rachel Maddow]

And I'm actually feeling fear for our.

[Chris Hayes]

Country for the first time. And registered Republican. I have been my whole life. I am just distressed by the flaunting of the rule of law. I'm distressed by concerns now that the judiciary may not be listened to and honored again. Those are Republicans there, including the one saying it's careening 100 miles an hour into an authoritarian wall. This was dwajic. I think that's how you say it. Michigan, last night, which ended up kind of like a game of Where's Waldo? Hey, where's Wahlberg? One by one, speakers addressed an empty chair reserved for Congressman Tim Wahlberg.

[Martin O'Malley]

Tim represents us, whether you voted for him or not. Understand that he represents the entire 5th district.

[Chris Hayes]

The Congressman was invited to the town hall meeting but declined. Wahlberg chose to remain in Washington. Had he been here, he'd receive an earful. Had he been here, he would have received an earful. There was another no show in Fairbanks, Alaska, this week. Voters inviting their Republican senator Dan Sullivan to a town Hall. When he didn't accept their invitation, nearly 200 Alaskans showed up anyway. They actually needed that overflow room. Again. This is for a senator. This is for a town hall where the senator was not in attendance. They addressed their questions to his cardboard cutout, which they propped up at the front of the room. This was Nevada City, California, a cardboard cutout of Republican Congressman Kevin Kiley. You might remember earlier this week, he held a town hall on the phone. That's all he's been willing to do. His constituents practically melted the phone lines. More than 25,000 people called in. But look at this. Even after that, more than 700 people showed up to this last night to talk to the cardboard version of their Congressman. More than 700 people, even though Congressman Kiley was not there in person, which his constituents are not going to let him forget. You saw signs like this. Look at this sign. Kevin Kiley is ghosting us. We see right through you. We had to blur this a little bit because the cute little ghost is making a rude gesture. You can imagine. I didn't even know they had fingers. In Hermantown, Minnesota, this weekend, they tried a different tactic. Instead of holding one of their empty chair town halls, instead of trying to get their congressman to go to them, they went to him. Republican Congressman Pete Stauber's constituents in Michigan showing up outside his office in the cold to protest. Another large protest was held outside of Congressman Pete Stauber's Hermantown office today.

[Rachel Maddow]

It's the fourth in just the past month. Protesters are calling on the Republican to address what's happening in Washington in regards to Doge's sweeping cuts to federal agencies. They argue Elon Musk, who is not an elected leader, has made many drastic changes with impacts to the Northland. Protestors say they've reached out to their lawmaker, but have received silence in return. The Congressman has been traveling in the Northland the past few days, you see in these photos, making stops in Bemidji and Grand rapids.

[Chris Hayes]

Ever since January 20, when President Trump.

[Rachel Maddow]

Was elected and then when he installed.

[Chris Hayes]

Doge, I think that there's been a.

[Martin O'Malley]

Lot of attacks, especially on the federal workforce. And people are upset and they're afraid.

[Rachel Maddow]

They're angry.

[Chris Hayes]

Again, this is just a snapshot of what's been happening this week. I got to tell you tonight in Denver, Colorado, Senator Bernie Sanders and Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, they just wrapped up an. An absolutely. Look at this absolutely enormous outdoor rally in Denver. Look at this. This is tonight in Denver, Colorado. More than 34,000 people turning out in Denver Civic Center Park. That's the largest. But events large and small, protesting what's going on with Trump and trying to encourage Democrats to stand up against him. It's been going on all over the country this week, especially with members of Congress home for recess. It would take me all night to show you everything. Been trying to at least some of it every night. Lucky for you, though, there's going to be a big focus tonight on the Last Word right after this hour here on MSNBC about the pushback we're seeing with protests in town halls. The great Ali Velshi is in tonight on the Last Word. He's going to be talking with Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna, who's been hosting town halls in Republican held districts all across California. They're going to have a big focus on this tonight at 10:00pm Eastern. You're going to want to stick around for that. We got lots more to get to tonight. Stay with us. I need directions for paying down debt. Starting route Apply for a SOFI personal loan and consolidate your debt into one fixed payment. Turn right into a positive outlook and get 5,000 to $100,000 as soon as the same day you sign with no fees required. Got it.

[Rachel Maddow]

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[Chris Hayes]

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[Rachel Maddow]

MSNBC presents Main justice each week on their podcast, veteran lawyers Andrew Weissman and Mary McCord break down the latest developments inside the Trump administration's Department of Justice.

[Chris Hayes]

The administration doesn't necessarily want to be questioned on any of its policy. I think what we are seeing is Project 2025 in action.

[Howard Lutnick]

This is it coming to fruition.

[Rachel Maddow]

Main justice subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for ad, free listening and bonus content. Stay up to date on the biggest issues of the day with the MSNBC Daily Newsletter. Each morning you'll get analysis by experts you trust, video highlights from your favorite shows.

[Chris Hayes]

I do think it's worth being very clear eyed, very real about what's going on here.

[Rachel Maddow]

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[Chris Hayes]

My whole adult life we have thought of attacking Social Security as The third rail of American politics. You touch it and it is a guaranteed political death. Well, we are now witnessing the strongest test we've ever had of that aphorism as Donald Trump grabs that third rail firmly and unmistakably. Trump has announced plans to fire thousands of people who work at the Social Security administration, more than 12% of its staff. He has released plans to shut down dozens of local Social Security offices across the country. Simultaneously, Trump is also making changes that will will force millions more people to have to go to Social Security offices in person rather than dealing with the agency over the phone as they can now. That means millions more elderly people and people with disabilities will be forced to somehow make their way physically to a Social Security office in person, if they can find one, because they're closing lots of offices. Because they will need to get help in person from a Social Security staffer, provided they can find one who hasn't been found. The Trump administration also wants to give Elon Musk's group of DOGE staffers access to Social Security's database of incredibly sensitive personal information. As we covered here on the show last night, for now, a judge has blocked DOGE from getting that information. Today, Trump's acting director of Social Security responded to that ruling by throwing a tantrum and saying if that ruling stands, he will shut down the Social Security administration altogether. And you don't have to be among the 70 plus million Americans who currently receive Social Security to be mad about any of that. Right. Making grandma wait in new lines is not nice. Right. Making people like check themselves out of the hospital or the nursing home to somehow make their way to a far away office that hasn't been shut to wait for hours to do something they used to be able to do on the phone. It's not nice. Right? Right. Pitching a fit and saying you'll just shut down the whole administration is not nice. It ought to be obvious, right? Nobody needs to spell that out for you unless you're Donald Trump's Commerce Secretary. I don't know if you saw this today. I feel like in any other moment this would have been wallpaper all over the American media. But this statement today from Donald Trump's Commerce Secretary about what Trump is doing to Social Security. This tape is such a political disaster. I feel like I almost have to close my eyes because I can't bear to watch it. Just here you go, check it out.

[Howard Lutnick]

Let's say Social Security didn't send out their checks this month. My mother in law, who's 94, she wouldn't call and complain. She just wouldn't. She'd think something got messed up up and she'll get it next month. A fraudster always makes the loudest noise, screaming, yelling and complaining.

[Chris Hayes]

Howard Lutnick, Wall street titan, Trump cabinet member saying that his mother in law wouldn't call and complain. She'd just wait until next month, see if her check came then. Anybody complaining about not getting a check is obviously a criminal. How does that comport with what you understand of the reality of getting a Social Security check? And who in your life, you know, gets a Social Security check? Mr. Lutnick went on to say that anybody like, like Elon Musk who had been inside a payment system like PayPal, quote knows the easiest way to find the fraudster is to stop payments and listen. Because whoever screams is the one stealing thing. This is not like a random podcaster, dude. This is cabinet official in the Trump administration. While they are devastating Social Security. Yeah, maybe it gets easier if you hear it again. Here's one, one more time.

[Howard Lutnick]

Let's say Social Security didn't send out their checks this month. My mother in law who's 94, she wouldn't call and complain. She just wouldn't. She thinks something got messed up and she'll get it next month. Yeah, a fraudster always makes the loudest noise screaming, yelling and complaining. And if all the guys who did PayPal like Elon, knows this by heart. Right. Anybody who's been in the payment system and the process system knows the easiest way to find the fraud her is to stop payments and listen. Yeah, because whoever screams is the one stealing.

[Chris Hayes]

He's talking about Social Security checks to elderly and disabled people. Stop the payments and listen. Whoever screams that's the one stealing. Try seeing that through the eyes of people, even just people in the news. Maybe you can't imagine real human beings that you've met. Right. But try seeing it through the eyes of people in the news whose Social Security checks have for one reason or another been cut off and who are not the mother in law of the commerce Secretary for Donald Trump. For instance, take Ned Johnson of Seattle. You might have seen his story going around this week after it was written up in the Seattle Times. Ned Johnson was very mistakenly declared deceased by the Social Security Administration. It was just a mistake. He is not dead. There's the headline in the Seattle Times. Here's a dead person on Social Security in Seattle with plenty to say after this mistaken classification. The bank then deducted $5,201 in Social Security deposits from his family bank account. Mr. Johnson is 82 years old. He spent nearly three weeks on the phone, followed by four hours in person before he could straighten it out. And even though he himself could handle the interruption in his Social Security check, Mr. Johnson said he understood what could be at stake for other people. He said, quote, when I was in that line, I was thinking that if I was living solely off Social Security, I could be close to dumpster diving about now. Or consider James McCaffrey of Oklahoma City. His benefits were also cut off by mistake. And even though he too financially could handle the interruption, he says he understood that for other people this would be a severe crisis.

[Martin O'Malley]

You interrupt that for seven days, two.

[Chris Hayes]

Weeks or even longer, and they're in bad trouble.

[Rachel Maddow]

They could be out of a house.

[Chris Hayes]

They could be out of food. I don't know. It ought to be obvious, right? The right way to approach the needs and expectations and earned earned income earned of millions of retired and disabled people, right? They have good reason now to be worried about their checks, not least because the administration is hacking away at government on a daily basis. Know what you need to spell out for you, right? At least what you ought to say and not to say. But here's Howard Lutnick saying, these people don't really need that money. If any of them complain when we cut it off, which we should, then you know, they're criminals. This should haunt the Trump administration. And it may already be starting to hold that thought. We'll be right back.

[Rachel Maddow]

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[Chris Hayes]

There's probably both messaging and policy issues, but as you look to kind of where the Democratic Party is, do you think it's more a messaging issue, more a policy issue?

[Rachel Maddow]

The Blueprint with Jen Psaki. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for ad free listening and bonus content. The first 100 days, bills are passed, executive orders are signed and presidencies are defined. And for Donald Trump's first 100 days, Rachel Maddow is on MSNBC five nights a week.

[Chris Hayes]

Now is the time. So we're gonna do it.

[Rachel Maddow]

Providing her unique insight and analysis during this critical time.

[Chris Hayes]

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[Rachel Maddow]

The Rachel Maddow show, weeknights at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC.

[Howard Lutnick]

Let's say Social Security didn't send out their checks this month. My mother in law who's 94, she wouldn't call and complain. She just wouldn't. She thinks something got messed up and she'll get it next month. A fraudster always makes the loudest noise, screaming, yelling and complaining.

[Chris Hayes]

I'm sorry. Every time you hear it, it is more astounding. That's a real thing. That is Donald Trump's Secretary of commerce really saying that on camera as the administration announces plans to fire thousands of people who work at Social Security to close field offices and as Trump's acting head of Social Security today, threaten to shut down the Social Security administration altogether. People don't get a check this month. Why would they care? Then maybe get one next month won't matter. Joining us now is Martin O'Malley. He was commissioner of the Social Security administration under President Biden. He has now started holding a series of town halls, most recently in Florida, to talk with people about what Trump is doing here and to try to save Social Security. Governor O'Malley, it's a pleasure to have you here. Thanks for coming back tonight.

[Martin O'Malley]

Hey, absolutely.

[Chris Hayes]

My honor, let me start by getting your reaction to what Secretary Letnick had to say about Social Security there.

[Martin O'Malley]

Well, it's pretty obvious that this is a man who's never really sat with people on, you know, either side of the glass or on the phone and listening to people call Rachel. Social Security is a lifeline to millions of Americans. 40% of all seniors living alone depend entirely upon Social Security to keep themselves out of poverty, this earned benefit they work their whole lives to earn. The cavalier disregard, utter ignorance of how so many Americans live on a day to day basis is stunning, is appalling and is a cruel heartedness in the center of our government that we've never seen before as Americans.

[Chris Hayes]

This happens at a time when these discussions are not in a vacuum. These discussions are happening as they are announcing plans to shut field offices all over the country. They are announcing policy changes that simultaneously will force millions of people who don't currently have to go in person to a physical field office to have to do so. They're firing thousands of employees, employees. All of these changes are already stressing people out about whether the system can take it. But then today, Trump's administrator of Social Security announced that he's threatening to shut the entire agency down over a judge's ruling that blocked Doge's access to sensitive personal information. What do you make of that threat? And what should Americans watching this at home right now, who are concerned, make of it?

[Martin O'Malley]

Well, all Americans should be appalled at this. We need to all, you know, we need to tune in, we need to raise our voices, we need to call our members of Congress and, and stop this steal before it's completed. I mean, and that steal would be of our Social Security Administration and the benefits we worked our whole lives to earn. They put this man in charge of Social Security not because he had ever supervised even a division of Social Security. I'm not sure I knew when I worked there. I'm not sure he ever supervised more than seven people. That's not why they put him there, Rachel. They put him there because he would do whatever the Doge team told him to do, regardless of the legalities of it, which is why the judge did what. What she did. But it's clear, here they are, they are doing everything they can, as quickly as they can to break this agency from within, to kneecap its ability to serve its customers so that they can sour the public on this agency that people have come to trust and depend upon. And they have to do that. They have to wreck it so that they can rob it. What exactly they want to do with the 2.7 trillion there, I do not know. But I do know this from having led these really courageous, hard working men and women across the nation who serve Americans every single day and treat them with dignity and respect, notwithstanding the workload. Everything that they are doing is to break this agency's ability to serve the public. And people should be rightly outraged. They have worked their whole lives for these benefits. They have worked over generations to make sure that they could be there for their own kids and grandkids. And what's going on right now at Social Security is absolutely appalling. I do believe they've probably already taken 90% of the actions necessary to crater, to crater this agency, to push it into a position of total system collapse. And people should be outraged. They should be turning out in droves. And all of us need to be speaking up. This should be the Bunker Hill upon which the Democratic Party is willing to die. Because this cuts into the heart of who we are as a people.

[Chris Hayes]

Martin O'Malley, former Maryland governor, former commissioner of the Social Security Administration or President Biden. Thank you for your time tonight, sir. I appreciate it.

[Martin O'Malley]

Thank you.

[Chris Hayes]

We'll be right back. Today we have confirmation from the government, one of the few groups or attorneys that have confirmation that our client is indeed in El Salvador. Last night, we brought you the story of one of the people the Trump administration has flown to a foreign prison. Despite the Trump administration's insistence that all these hundreds of people it sent were hardened criminals, members of a violent gang. Last night, immigration attorney Lindsay Teslowski told us that her client, Andre, a gay makeup artist with no criminal record and no gang affiliation, was among those who were deported. Ms. Staslowski told us last night that she hasn't heard from her client in days. She has no way to get in touch with them. They don't know where their legal case goes from here because the Trumpet administration is claiming it has the right to take anyone it has decided to take and deport them to another country where they will be locked up indefinitely with no recourse to the courts. They are claiming the courts don't even have the right to ask them about who they are deporting or why or where or how. They even reportedly believe they have the right to enter anyone's home without a warrant, as long as they say they are looking for a gang member. Tonight we got this harrowing look at what it was like when these men arrived in El Salvador last weekend from a photojournalist named Philip Holzinger in Time magazine. He said, quote, the intake began with slaps. One young man sobbed when a guard pushed him to the floor. He said, I'm not a gang member. I'm gay. I'm a barber. Inside the intake room, other prisoners descended on the men with electric shavers, stripping heads of hair with haste. The guy who claimed to be a barber began to whimper, holding his hands in prayer. As his hair fell, he was slapped. The man asked for his mother, then buried his face in his chained hands and cried as he was slapped again. Now, we have no reason to believe the man described. There is Andri, who is a makeup artist, not a barber. But of course, we have no idea who almost any of the people are who have been deported, because the Trump administration insists it doesn't have to tell us. We're just supposed to trust them, that they're all hardened, vicious gang members like this guy. Andre's lawyer tells us tonight he's still being held with no way to contact him. We will keep you updated. Earlier this hour, we had mentioned that in Denver, Colorado, Tonight, there was an absolutely massive, massive turnout for a rally held by Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio Cortez. They have been doing these joint appearances at their Against Oligarchy tour. And in Denver tonight, they think they knew they were going to get a pretty large crowd, but I'm not sure that anybody knew they were going to get more than 30,000 people. But this again, was in Denver tonight. They have been in Las Vegas, Nevada, and in Tempe, Arizona, and doing these other events over the last few days. Just absolutely. With each passing day, exponentially larger crowds for each of these events by Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio Cortez. In case you want some sense of what the energy is right now for people who are taking the hardest possible line against what Donald Trump and Elon Musk are doing and Washington. All right, that's going to do it for me for now. I will see you again on Monday and every night next week at 9pm Eastern.

[Rachel Maddow]

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