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The Rachel Maddow Show
Rachel Maddow in Discussion with Civil Rights Leader Andrew Young
01:33:20
Ahead of the premiere of Rachel’s new documentary, “Andrew Young: The Dirty Work,” Rachel sits down with Andrew Young and John Hope Bryant in a discussion led by Rev. Al Sharpton at Clark Atlanta University. They talk about Ambassador Young’s historic career and his key role alongside Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. during the civil rights movement.
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- [00:00]
Ted Danson
Hey everybody, Ted Danson here to tell you about my podcast with my longtime friend and sometimes co host Woody Harrelson. It's called Where Everybody Knows yous Name and we're back for another season. I'm so excited to be joined this season by friends like John Mulaney, David Spade, Sarah Silverman, Ed Helms, and many more. You don't want to miss it. Listen to Where Everybody Knows yous Name with me, Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson, sometimes wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:30]
Andrew Young
To realize the future America needs, we understand what's needed from us to face each threat head on. We've earned our place in the fight.
- [00:39]
John Hope Bryant
For our nation's future.
- [00:41]
Andrew Young
We are Marines. We were made for this.
- [00:52]
Rachel Maddow
Hey, it's Rachel Maddow. So between now and the end of this year, I have two projects coming out that are both very different, but they are both big picture about the same idea. They are both about the practical work it takes to build and be part of protest and resistance movements in this country, movements that succeed against very difficult odds. Both of these projects are about really the very personal nitty gritty of what it means to do that kind of work and specifically what we can learn about that from the Americans who have gone before us, who have done that very hard, often unsung work and built movements and been part of movements and helped lead movements and ultimately, in the end, against the odds, those movements. One so one of those two projects is a new podcast that I'm going to have coming out before the end of the year. I am almost ready to announce that, but not quite working really hard on it. The other one, though, is pretty much ready to go, and that is a new documentary which is premiering on MSNBC Friday, October 17th at 9pm Eastern. The documentary is basically one man's story about the unglamorous, very difficult, very noble work that he did behind the scenes of the civil rights movement while he was at the right hand of the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King. The film is called Andrew the Dirty Work and again, it premieres Friday, October 17th on MSNBC at 9pm Eastern. I'm really excited for you to see it. A couple of days ago, just ahead of this premiere, I had the very humbling privilege of talking with Andrew Young himself. He is 93 years old. I spoke with Ambassador Young and with Reverend Al Sharpton and the businessman and activist John Hope Bryant who helped bring everybody together to make this film. And the four of us sat down together to talk with an audience of students and faculty at Clark Atlanta University, which is a proud and distinguished HBCU which traces its history all the way back to the era of the US Civil War. Again, this was at Clark Atlanta University. It was just a great discussion, a great night. It started with a spiritual warmup from the school's amazing choir, which is the Clark Atlanta University Philharmonic Society. So you hear a little bit of them here. You'll hear a little bit more of them at the end of this recording, But I think you're gonna find this interesting. The great Reverend Al Sharpton led our conversation. I'm really happy to be able to share it with you here. Oh, and one last thing. There's a little bit of, I guess I would call it spicy language here on the part of Ambassador Young. I know you will not hold it against him, but I didn't want you to be surprised when it happens. Okay, here we.
- [04:24]
Clark Atlanta University Philharmonic Society
This little light of mine I'm gonna let it shine this little light of mine I'm gonna let it shine this little light I'm gonna let it shine Let it shine Let it shine Let.
- [04:53]
John Hope Bryant
We all are here in our collective beings to honor a man who paved the way for all of us. There would not be any of us on this stage. There would not be any of us that have done the White House all the way down to wherever we are if it had not been for Andrew Young. As one who grew up in the movement in the North. I joined when I was 12, the year Dr. King was killed, became youth director of that chapter in Brooklyn. Reverend William Jones and Reverend Jesse Jackson. And all my life in civil rights. And there's always been the internal fights and all. Everyone would say the architect, the right and left arm of Dr. King was Andrew Young, who never sought the spotlight. I was mentored in finding the spotlight. He was mentored his people in backing up. And I won't call names. Andy don't want me to be divisive, but, you know, I had an art and showmanship, but I had to learn out of it. You never had that. That is why it's so important what Rachel Maddow is doing with this documentary to show the world who did the dirty work that made America clean. That's what we hear to. So before we get started, let's look at a trailer of this outstanding documentary. Andrew the Dirty Work.
- [06:32]
Andrew Young
It didn't look like a promising job. Now I will call for Andrew Young, that dedicated leader. Nobody really wanted to go work for Martin Luther King. He had been stabbed, bombed, jail, and he didn't have any Money. The Southern Christian Leadership Conference, spearheading the passive resistance movement. Martin Luther King was looking for an assistant to do all the dirty work. When there was something that needed to be done and nobody wanted to do it, that was my job. We will use the dogs. If they start drawing knives again, we will use the holes.
- [07:08]
Civil Rights Movement Participant (possibly John Lewis or another marcher)
We don't intend to quit this fight until we get our situation resolved.
- [07:13]
Andrew Young
My assignment was to find somebody to negotiate with. They were looking for a fight. We say to Jews and neck, they'll get burned before it's over with. Somebody came up behind me and hit me.
- [07:26]
Civil Rights Movement Participant (possibly John Lewis or another marcher)
I remember somebody kicking me in my stomach. And I felt around looking for a sore place, and there wasn't any there.
- [07:35]
Andrew Young
We were soldiers, soldiers without violence, without hatred.
- [07:39]
Civil Rights Movement Participant (possibly John Lewis or another marcher)
This is a revolution that won't fire a shot.
- [07:43]
Andrew Young
I was expected to oversee all of the things that were going on.
- [07:47]
Civil Rights Movement Participant (possibly John Lewis or another marcher)
We are marching for you.
- [07:50]
Andrew Young
A shot rang out. He fell. When I saw him, there was no hope. The last thing we agreed on was that we had to take the movement into politics. Congressman Andrew Young. Andrew Young has emerged. Young drew louder applause than the President. Andy Young is, at best, certainly no stranger to controversy. Ambassador Young acted on his own. I've been through many dangerous toils and snares. If I had to take a few kicks and licks to get a civil Rights act, I'd do it any day of the week. That's what I call the dirty word.
- [08:47]
John Hope Bryant
Let me start. Rachel, we're going to do this together. And I want to start by asking you, Ambassador Young, you grew up in New Orleans, right? And you drew inspiration from the 1936 Olympics. Tell us about it.
- [09:06]
Andrew Young
Well, you know, I grew up in New Orleans, and New Orleans is a mixed up kind of town. I lived in the middle of the block. My brother and I, who was here were the only black kids in the block. There were other black families, but there was an Irish grocery store on one corner, an Italian bar on another. The Nazi party was on the third corner and Chevrolet dealership around the fourth corner. And so we were in the middle.
- [09:37]
Clark Atlanta University Philharmonic Society
Of.
- [09:39]
Andrew Young
Racially mixed up America. And the message that my father gave to me and Walter was, you know, don't ever lose your temper in a fight. Don't get mad, get smart. If you lose your temper, you lose the fight. And he said, you can run, but you won't feel good about running from a fright. And. But he said, if you keep your emotions calm and let your mind lead you through, you can let. You can get through almost anything and you'll find that your thoughts are more powerful than your fists because he was 5ft 4. And he said, you're not going to be any more than five, seven, or eight. And he said, you won't be able to beat up anybody. He said, but if you, if you stay calm, your mind can lead you through anything.
- [10:40]
Rachel Maddow
When you grew into a young man, you were left the south, you were in New York. What was the thought process that you went through? What were the emotions that when you. That you went through in deciding to go back south to go be part of the movement, to go join Dr. King?
- [10:58]
Andrew Young
Well, I didn't decide to go be part of the movements. Well, yeah, that's the second time I went to New York. I went to New York to work for the National Council of Churches after pastoring down here in South Georgia. But we saw the Nashville sit in story just like you're seeing this, except that it was John Lewis leading the college students at Fisk and Tennessee State, Marion Barry from Washington, D.C. and my wife, then a little country girl from Marion, Alabama, said, I'm ready to go home now. We had two children. She was pregnant with the third, and she was working on a master's at Queens College. And that was a blessing in itself. And maybe that's the way we survive, because it didn't cost but $18 to get a master's degree at Queens College back there. That was 1957. And so she said, as soon as I have this baby and get this degree, I'm going home to my mama. And I said, well, what are you gonna want me to do? She said, well, I hope you will sell this house, quit this job, and find something to do down South. And I said, this woman is crazy. But she was probably right and it worked out that way. Except that before that somebody called me and you'll find that the dirty work is always set up by some angelic voices. You don't know that they're angels, but somebody called me and said, look, we have a grant that we want to give to Dr. King, but he doesn't have a 501 status. You think you can help him? And I said, sure, I can help him. And I called our denomination, the United Church of Christ. And I said, Dr. King needs to get this money. And I said, we have some. Our church had. Well, these college campuses were all a product of the American Missionary association right after the Civil War. And I said, there are other properties in Savannah, Greensboro, North Carolina, Louisiana, Mississippi. And I said, if you can put some of the church money into fixing up some of these places, then we will have places to do voter registration from Virginia right on around East Texas. And they agreed and they said, and we can put some money into with this, but we think you ought to go down there and be the administrator.
- [13:52]
John Hope Bryant
As you were administrating, you were not working yet for Dr.
- [13:56]
Andrew Young
I wasn't working for.
- [13:57]
John Hope Bryant
How did you end up working for Dr. King?
- [13:59]
Andrew Young
Well, right down on Auburn Avenue was where he moved his office when he moved from Montgomery. And we picked the office right across the hall. And that's where I got to do the dirty work because Dora McDonnell was his secretary. She'd been Dr. May's secretary at Morehouse. And he said, you need a first class, world class secretary, so I'm going to ask Dora to go work with you. Well, Dora came and said, you, wife is over there in Alabama. Atlanta's not the place for a young man to be single with nothing to do. Said, if you hang around Atlanta, you gonna get in trouble. And I said, well, some things don't change. I said, what can I do? And she said, well, the One problem that Dr. King has, that he has not been able to deal with is answering mail, and he really wants to answer mail. And so she gave me an egg crate about this big, stacked with over a thousand letters tied in bunches of 100, and said, if you would help with the mail. And so I was staying at the Butler Street YMCA. And so every night I'd take home 100 letters and stay up at night writing answers on the yellow pad. And she typed it up and Dr. King signed it. Well, he said, how does he know what I want to say?
- [15:32]
Clark Atlanta University Philharmonic Society
Wow.
- [15:33]
Andrew Young
And I said, I don't. But I said, you went to Morehouse. I went to Howard. And I said, you went to seminary in Boston. I went in Connecticut. I said, you know, we probably read some of the same books. And I said, I'm guessing, but nobody else. I'm guessing and writing. He said, well, you're hitting it pretty accurately.
- [15:58]
John Hope Bryant
Let me ask you this, and I really want John to elaborate on the significance of it, but you give us the background. 1962, Albany. The Albany movement, which is rarely cited. Tell us what happened in Albany, Georgia, and explain for us, John Hope Bryant, the historic significance of.
- [16:20]
Andrew Young
Well, in Albany, we didn't intend to have a demonstration. He had a classmate from Morehouse who was a physician down there, and he asked him to come down to make a speech. And he got down to make a speech and there's a. There's a street corner With Baptist churches on both, Baptist church on one side, Methodist church on the other. And the churches were full and the streets were full, and there must have been a thousand people out there in a little country town, and they got to singing those freedom songs, and they got freedom High. And Reverend. I mean, Dr. Anderson got up and said, we gonna. Who's gonna march with Martin Luther King in the morning? We're going to jail. How many of you ready to stand up for your freedom? And I said, oh, shit. This wasn't. I mean, this wasn't in the program. Dr. King thought he was coming down there to make a speech and drive back to Atlanta, and then he suddenly gets trapped and gets arrested. And so that's when I was not supposed to be down there at all, even. But I went to see him in jail and had my first contact, which was a meaningful contact, this great big sergeant behind a desk. And I said, excuse me, sir, but I'd like to see Dr. King and Reverend Abernathy. And he didn't even look up. He said, a little nigga out here wants to see them big niggas back there. What do I do? And I was cool, but somebody said, send him back. So I went back there and told them what happened. And Dr. King said, look, that's your problem. We got enough problems back here. You got to get in and out of here at least twice a day. Well, when I went back, I remembered something my father said. He said, if you talk to a law enforcement officer, call him by name. So I looked at his tag, and it was Hamilton. I said, thank you, Sergeant Hamilton. And it got his attention. He looked up, he said, oh, okay. I said, I'll see you tomorrow. Next day, I come back, and I said, how you doing, Sergeant Hamilton? I said, you know, I was thinking you had to play football somewhere. And then he smiled. And then we started talking, because he had been a tackle on the Valdosta State football team, and he was over £300. Well, really, I knew more about pro football, but the Green Bay packers line was not as big as the Auburn. I mean, the Valdosta. And so when we started talking football, I had a friend. And it. Well, long story short, the next day he said, you know, the sheriff wants to know why you haven't come to see him. And when I went to see him, he said, do you think you could ask Dr. King to get me an appointment with Bobby Kennedy as a federal marshal? He said, I'm tired of this stuff. He had married a young lady who was a Roman Catholic. And she didn't like the race relations problem. And so when I went to see Dr. King, every time I went to see Dr. King and Reb Madman, I had to counsel this sergeant and the sheriff on their race relations. And it, long story short, we got out and made it through Albany, but didn't solve any problems. But later on I met. I was speaking in Massachusetts, in Maine, at a country club. And who should walk down the aisle but this tall skinny guy, he was trimmed down about 190 like Rev did here. I mean, there was a time when he was a big guy, but.
- [20:48]
John Hope Bryant
But I wasn't a tackle.
- [20:50]
Andrew Young
No, but he came. When he came down and shook my hand, he said, you don't remember me, do you? I said, no. Where did we meet? He said, we met in Albany jail. I'm Sergeant Hamilton. Wow. And I said, what are you doing up here? He said, as soon as you all left, I found this ad in a magazine, a gun magazine. And they were looking for security in this country club. And I put my wife and children in the back of our station wagon. We rented a trailer and we came on up here and we've been happy ever since. The sheriff that had all kinds of New York Times reviews for putting Martin Luther King in jail put me down as a reference because. Because he wanted to move. He wanted to get out of Albany. And so friends of mine in High Point, North Carolina called and said this so and so and so and so put you down as a reference. I said, well, he said, we're looking for a new police chief. And I said, well, you know, what do you want to do? He said, well, we really want to integrate the police force. I said, well, you know, I don't know, you need to talk to him yourself. But I don't think you could find a better man. I said, one, he's got all the racist credentials.
- [22:18]
Clark Atlanta University Philharmonic Society
See.
- [22:19]
Andrew Young
So he will handle all your little hoodlums because he's been a hoodlum too. But they ended up hiring him.
- [22:29]
Clark Atlanta University Philharmonic Society
Wow.
- [22:30]
Andrew Young
And so I've never felt that this movement that we're in was a dead end street. And if you look around Atlanta and you see how we have changed. We were a 500,000 city when I came here in 1960 and now we're over 5 million.
- [22:55]
John Hope Bryant
Tell us the significance of Albany. It didn't get the kind of universal press coverage. It wasn't planned. What is the historic significance of it?
- [23:06]
Reverend Al Sharpton
So it was a learned experience, as you well know. I mean, sometimes, you know, as I was talking to Rachel backstage Rainbows only follow storms. It's a scientific fact. You cannot have one without the other. So it was a learned experience. But before I get that, Reverend, I want to just thank you for the work you're doing in the community through. They see you on tv, but they don't see that you're feeding the homeless. You're feeding the sick and taking care of homeless people and taking people struggling in communities all across this country. You're doing the dirty work. National Action Network. And Phil did the dirty work in this documentary. And Rachel does the dirty work every week trying to clean up.
- [23:49]
Ted Danson
That's right.
- [23:51]
Reverend Al Sharpton
A really nasty situation. So one of the problems I have with him is he doesn't take credit properly, which means you can't learn. So what you just heard basically was talk without being offensive, listen without being defensive, and always leave even your adversary with their dignity, because if you don't, they'll spend the rest of your life working to make you miserable. Okay, how does that relate? So he didn't tell you this story properly about what happened when he was hired. So he gets his contract to come down and do non violent training, which means he's got a grant. The first time he came down, they sent him packing. Dr. King was out giving march, giving speeches. So the staff was like, look, we all got jobs. We, we. The seats are taken by. So he's being a gentleman. He left. So he, so he, he comes back and Dr. King learns that he's got a grant. He said, well, let him sit over there. We need a paid employee. Well, that became his absolute golden ticket because he was the one person no one could fire. Staff couldn't fire him, couldn't manipulate him, couldn't tell him what to do so he could talk truth to power in the office and outside. So that became one of his most valuable assets to Dr. King, who hated controversy, by the way. He hated conflict, oddly enough. So the one time you got to get. Dr. King cursed him out, one time you got to tell that story about. And it is directly tied to what I just said. And this, plus the strategies from the Albany movement, I think set up all the successes that follow little known fact. Why did he curse you out?
- [25:38]
Andrew Young
He cursed me out because James Meredith decided he was gonna have a march to show that he was free in Mississippi. And he got shot. And I said, damn fool. I mean, I'm crazy, but I wouldn't go walking down the road alone in Mississippi or Georgia for that matter, back then. But it was. I said, let's go. And Dr. King called me. He said, andy, meet me in my office a minute. I gotta run to the restroom. So he goes to the bathroom and he comes back and he said, what are you doing? He said, don't you realize that if you don't come down. I said, I'm tired of playing Uncle Tom. He said, if you don't play to Uncle Tom, these brothers will get me killed. He said, now we don't need to be just. Cause Meredith went down the road to Mississippi by himself. We don't need to follow him. That's not a part of our plan. We're going to Chicago. We still have work to do in Selma. And he said, you cannot just be who you want to be. You got to protect me. And it was always, and that's a dirty word.
- [26:58]
Reverend Al Sharpton
What was the last thing he said to you? If. If you don't.
- [27:04]
Andrew Young
He said, if you don't protect me and things like this, I don't need you.
- [27:09]
John Hope Bryant
So you were the balance?
- [27:11]
Andrew Young
Well, yeah, I was the. I was the Uncle Tom.
- [27:18]
Reverend Al Sharpton
And people don't realize Reverend Uncle Tom was a. That was a bad brother. The real Uncle Tom got something done, led people to Canada, slaves to Canada for freedom, and bought property up there. And it was a media manipulated that. So this guy would basically knock heads inside the office.
- [27:38]
John Hope Bryant
Let me go to something that we all know that Rachel and I talked about. Birmingham. How did the Birmingham movement become a next key moment that really led to the 1964 Civil Rights Act?
- [27:54]
Andrew Young
Well, you know, when we first, I mean, I'm here in Atlanta, grew up in New Orleans, but I didn't know that there were more than 60 bombings of black people's homes in and around Birmingham. And this was because after the war, the brothers and sisters came back, they started building nice little houses, not fancy, but they'd put some rose bushes and they planted some azaleas and they cut the grass and they were living nice. And the clan didn't like that. So they bombed over 60 homes. Now I'm 150 miles away from Birmingham. I didn't know what was going on. My wife was 90 miles from Birmingham. She didn't know what was going on. But when Fred Shuttlesworth came and described this, he said, we have got to stop this. We need a movement. We don't need violence. But we need you to come, Dr. King, and help us to find a non violent way to contain this Klan violence and to desegregate Birmingham. And so Martin turned to me and said, andy, do you know any white people in Birmingham? I Said, I don't know any black people in Birmingham. And I said, I've lived in New Orleans and Marion, Alabama, and Atlanta and Thomasville, Georgia. But I said, I really don't know Birmingham. He said, well, you got a couple of months. He said, you got about 30 days to meet somebody. I said, why? He said, well, if we're gonna have demonstrations there, somebody has got to go and sit down with the responsible leaders in the community and explain to them why we're having demonstrations. And so I remembered that I'd been at a conference in Michigan, and there was a group there from the Episcopal Church. And so I just picked up the phone and called the Episcopal Church in Birmingham. And the lady who I had met at University of Michigan answered the phone. She was the director of education. And I asked Tola who I was. She remembered me, and I said, I need you to help me get Dr. King and your archbishop together. And she said, well, I don't know Dr. King, but I can get you to see the archbishop. And so she set up an appointment with me and the archbishop of Alabama, who also later on wrote the ad in the paper condemning Martin for coming. But I went there a month ahead of time and explained to him what we were doing. The black community was set up to write out their grievances in something they called the Birmingham Manifesto. The white community wrote their response and put it in the Birmingham Post Herald as a whole page ad. But they blamed. After we talked to them and explained to them, and Dr. King and Reverend Abernathy and Reverend Shuttlesworth had three or four meetings with the clergy, white clergy and business community, but they still blamed him. And Martin wrote the answer in the letter from the Birmingham jail, which he wrote around the margins of the New York Times, because he didn't have any paper in the jail. And when he ran out of space on the New York Times, he wrote on toilet paper. And that was.
- [31:39]
Reverend Al Sharpton
He slogged it out through you, huh? He smoked it out through you.
- [31:42]
Andrew Young
Yeah, but I'm saying what it did, too, was that's where this DEI came from, because one of our lawyers was with the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. And what was his name? Andrea. But anyway, he went, huh? But he went to teach at Harvard when he left Birmingham. So he took Harvard. I mean, the DEI didn't come from Harvard. It came from Birmingham. And it was these three letters that he put together in a course that gives Harvard a lot of credit for something that was done by ordinary people.
- [32:28]
John Hope Bryant
In Birmingham that led to the Civil Rights Act. Rachel, I want to show a clip of what you did about the Civil Rights Act.
- [32:34]
Clark Atlanta University Philharmonic Society
Oh, good. Yeah. Foreign.
- [32:45]
Ted Danson
Ted Danson here to tell you about my podcast with my longtime friend and sometimes co host Woody Harrelson. It's called where everybody knows your name and we're back for another season. I'm so excited to be joined this season by friends like John Mulaney, David Spade, Sarah Silverman, Ed Helms, and many more. You don't want to miss it. Listen to where everybody knows your name with me, Ted Danson, and Woody Harrelson. Sometimes. Wherever you get your podcasts.
- [33:15]
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- [33:40]
Clark Atlanta University Philharmonic Society
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- [33:51]
Civil Rights Movement Participant (possibly John Lewis or another marcher)
Since I joined four months ago, I've.
- [33:53]
Andrew Young
Lost £25 and it has changed my life.
- [33:57]
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- [34:22]
Andrew Young
We say to Lyndon B. Johnson and all of the Jews and niggers that they can take this Civil Rights act and if they hold on to it long enough, it'll get burned before it's over with. At a time when Negroes throughout the south and across the nation have organized demonstrations and civil disorders to call attention to their demands for more civil rights, St. Augustine has had its share of conflicts. I urge you again to enact a civil rights law. The Senate was in the middle of a filibuster trying to stop the 1964 Civil Rights Act. I shall vote no on this bill. How long will you debate this bill? Until it's defeated. The only thing that would kill this movement and stop the passage of the bill was if there'd been a violent confrontation. And we knew of this klan group in St. Augustine that was trying to provoke violence. Dr. King was nervous, so he said, andy, you need to go down and you need to tell these folk they don't need to be demonstrating now. They're interfering with the possible progress that'll come from Washington. Well, he never tried to stop a movement. When we got down the street and could see where the Klan had a couple of hundred people in the park in their white uniforms and their pointed hats, we suspected that they had their guns under there and they were looking for a fight. You don't change a nigger's nature, his characteristics, because you educate. I had to get these people back in the church without getting hurt. And the Klan was on the left side in the park. And I went over by myself. I don't know what I was thinking of, but I thought I could reason with the Ku Klux Klan until somebody that I didn't see came up behind me and hit me with something. At the same time, somebody else was kicking me in my gro. When they stopped, the staff came over and picked me up. And I said, we can't go back now. Somebody came up to me again to try to kick me. I was ducking and dodging. Somebody in the crowd, said, damn, them niggers got some nerve. And somebody shouted out, it's not nerve, son. It's faith.
- [36:48]
Civil Rights Movement Participant (possibly John Lewis or another marcher)
I think one of the most amazing things to me this morning when I woke up up was that I hardly had an ache and pain on me anyway. I remember somebody kicking me in my stomach, and I felt around looking for a sore place, and there wasn't any there. I did have a little knot on my head, but it wasn't too bad either. But what was more important was that there was a good feeling in my heart.
- [37:21]
Andrew Young
The St. Augustine movement was in newspapers across the country, and so it had a lot of national attention. This put me in the front line. Both my faith and my manhood were tested, and I passed the course. That was the last straw. The Senate probably saw that. My fellow Americans, I am about to sign into law the Civil Rights act of 1960.
- [37:46]
Clark Atlanta University Philharmonic Society
64.
- [37:46]
Andrew Young
I think that was the most successful ass whipping I've ever received. If I had to take those two chips and licks to get a Civil Rights Act, I'd do it any day of the week.
- [37:59]
John Hope Bryant
Rachel, I don't know how you got.
- [38:01]
Clark Atlanta University Philharmonic Society
Yeah.
- [38:03]
Rachel Maddow
Isn't that to see the front page of that paper where you see the coverage of the beating? And on the same column inch of that paper, there's the break of the filibuster. And he remembers this. Ambassador Young remembers this having been the breakthrough. And you see it there in real time in that one, you know, four by five inch snapshot of that paper. That's the sort of thing that if you're a print nerd like me, that'll keep me going for six years. That, that one discovery. I would also just point out that footage of the beating there, as hard as that is to watch, it is even harder to watch knowing that that is not just somebody being beat up. That is not us taking B roll of somebody being hurt somewhere at a protest. That is Ambassador Young being beaten. That is him. And I just have to ask you, I know that you asked yourself this in the interview that we used there as the voiceover, but what were you thinking in trying to talk to the Klan in that moment? Do you know?
- [39:04]
Andrew Young
Yeah, I was trying. First off, I was trying to keep the people from marching down there. But we stopped to pray and when I wanted them to go back, they started singing. Be not dismayed Whate' er betide God will take care of you. And I said, oh, Lord, it happened to be a Saturday night. I said, I have not had experience with God. Saturday night with the Ku Klux Klan, but they wanted to go. Well, I didn't want. The thing is that the young men didn't march with us most of the time. It was mostly the, you know, kids that were 12, 14, 15, and their mothers and their aunts and the brothers were all being too bad. And I. So I was left leading a group of women and children with the SCLC staff. JT Johnson is still around. He's about 85 now, but he was there that night. Al Lingo, white fellow, was marching with us and we had a few volunteers, but we were really down there to stop the march and keep these people safe. They didn't want to stop. But when we marched through, nobody got hurt. And the civil rights bill was passed the following week. Now that. And that wasn't the end of it. I think one of the most successful businessmen to come out of that movement is right here in Atlanta. Oh, gosh. He was on the board of Clark and Morehouse Medical School. The first man to own a McDonald here in Atlanta, Hank Thomas. And Hank is not doing well right now. But he went from Howard University in the sit Ins and St. Augustine. He volunteered to go to Vietnam and he got wounded and became won the Purple Heart. Came back here, finished his education. He started head of First McDonald's and he ended up with about four McDonald's which he traded in for three Marriott hotels. And he gave a lot of money to the AU center. And. But he was the first one to sit on, to sit down at a lunch counter in St. Augustine, Florida. And so the young lady, there's a picture that one of those pictures, I'm helping a young lady out of the mob, and she had some bruises and bleeding. I found out that she got her PhD and was a professor now at Florida International University. And so almost everybody, and the two my girlfriends, one is 101 and the other, well, 99 and 102. And they both still got a movement going on, and they both still drive.
- [42:38]
Clark Atlanta University Philharmonic Society
Wow.
- [42:38]
Andrew Young
Now, St. Augustine is not Atlanta. I wouldn't try driving myself in Atlanta, but you St. Augustine. And what I found out was that people took a risk, but everybody had their own significant triumph. And what we see nationally is President.
- [43:00]
Rachel Maddow
Johnson responding when President Johnson responded, when there precipitously is the breaking of the filibuster and the signing of the Civil Rights act so soon after that. You, at the time, I was fascinated to hear you talk about this. You at the time were aware, even as the Civil Rights act was passing, even as it was being signed in Washington, you were aware of its limitations, that the Civil Rights act would not be enough without essentially enacting legislation in the form of a Voting Rights Act. Is that right?
- [43:38]
Andrew Young
That's right. But the thing is, I was more thrilled at what I think got the civil rights back. It wasn't just us getting beat up. It was when the Klan marched down through the black community that Saturday in their sheets. I thought then the brothers might get to be feel their Cheerios a little too much and want to start a fight. But they couldn't because these same ladies and children that got beat up started singing I love everybody. I love everybody in my heart. I feel the love of Jesus. I feel the love of Jesus in my heart. You can't make me doubt him because I know too much about him. And it was that, that constant resurgence of the faith of an oppressed people that I think was the unseen spiritual power behind the civil rights movement.
- [44:35]
John Hope Bryant
Now, following up with what Rachel said, you wanted to go into voting, which led to the Voting Rights act. And she does a real serious part. Tomorrow, they're arguing for the Supreme Court about Section two of the Voting Rights Act. So it's under threat. So, you know, in her vision of doing this documentary now, it's more needed now than ever. Let's look at a clip of the Voting Rights Act.
- [45:09]
Civil Rights Movement Participant (possibly John Lewis or another marcher)
We've been in quite a fight here, and I think we don't intend to quit this fight until we get our situation resolved.
- [45:17]
Andrew Young
By the time we got to Selma, I was expected to oversee all of the things that were. One day it would be people from the rural areas coming in, trying to vote. A group of clergy went down to try to register to vote. They got turned away. We were marching every day to the courthouse steps.
- [45:36]
Reverend Al Sharpton
We are going to bring a voting bill into being.
- [45:38]
John Hope Bryant
On the streets of selma, Alabama, in 1965.
- [45:45]
Andrew Young
I saw the state troopers lined up, and I knew that we would not be allowed to march. So I called Dr. King. He said, slow the march down. But I think we had almost 300 people there already.
- [46:02]
Civil Rights Movement Participant (possibly John Lewis or another marcher)
The Student Nonviolence Coordinating Committee has a statement.
- [46:06]
Andrew Young
We, the negro citizens of Dallas county and other Alabama black belt counties are marching today from Selma to Montgomery. John Lewis was already locked in representing the students. Dr. King had insisted that I not lead the march, but I didn't want to seem like I was backing out or afraid. So we decided to flip a coin. Odd man leads the march. And we flipped. And the odd man became Jose Williams. And his first reaction was, you motherfuckers, trick me back across the bridge. There was Brown Chapel, AME Church. There's a picture of all of us, me standing up and everybody else kneeling down, practically praying. Prayer is a cry out from your soul to the soul of God to give you whatever it is you think you need. I was not that fearful, but I was fearful for everybody else. So I prayed for their safety and security. Almighty God, we gather together in peace and ask for your strength, your blessings and your mercy. We ask that as we march from Selma to Montgomery, that you march with us. Your orders to disperse, go home or go to your church, and that we bring the peace. This march will not continue. And the cause of justice and voting rights to our governor, to our president, and to all of the nations that stand for and work toward a democratic society. Bless us, save us, keep us, and give us the strength, the courage, the wisdom and the peace to follow your will. In Christ Jesus name we pray. Amen. We were soldiers of a sort. Soldiers without violence, without hatred, without bitterness. We were on the back end, sort of helping people back from the bridge. They were in tears. They couldn't see. They had lost their sense of direction. You think you're going to die. It's a horrible thing to be to you. On the television. It went from the judgment at Nuremberg to the judgment in Selma. Where were we when Hitler began shrieking his hate in Reichstag?
- [49:04]
Civil Rights Movement Participant (possibly John Lewis or another marcher)
Where were we when our neighbors were being dragged out in the middle of.
- [49:07]
Andrew Young
The night to dachau we interrupt this program. People had 90 minutes of preparation for how fascism treats its citizens. And to see it on television, happening in their own country, just got everybody enraged. Nobody understood that quicker than President Lyndon Johnson. It's not just Negroes, but really it's all of us who must overcome the crippling legacy of bigotry, injustice. And we shall overcome. It's the only time I ever saw Martin Luther King cry. We knew we'd made the message clear. Judge Johnson has just ruled that we have a legal and constitutional right to march from Selma to Montgomery. And we finally got permission from the federal community judiciary to continue the march to Montgomery. We had no idea how many people would show up on the first day. My wife came over. She brought my three children, but only my older daughter Andrea was able to march Selma to Montgomery, Alabama. You can fly it in a matter of minutes, you can drive it in less than an hour, or you can walk it in five days. At that time, we were all kind of freedom high. We didn't feel particularly in danger until the march got to Montgomery. And then people began to get nervous because we were no longer on the highway.
- [51:02]
Civil Rights Movement Participant (possibly John Lewis or another marcher)
This is not a Negro problem. This is America's problem. And white people are as much responsible for it and should carry as much of the burden of it as we do.
- [51:13]
Andrew Young
The Justice Department came to me and said, you've got to get Dr. King in a car. You cannot let him march into Montgomery. But when I talked to Martin, he said, no, I have not come this far to get in a car. I'm gonna march right up to the state capitol. He had on a dark suit. And so I went around through the crowd, and I found everybody in a dark suit. And I said, come on. Dr. King wants you all to come up and march with it. And my thinking was, folk think we all look alike. So if you put 10 preachers with black suits on, that was all the security we could organize for. There was always a threat.
- [51:53]
Civil Rights Movement Participant (possibly John Lewis or another marcher)
This is a revolution that won't fire a shot. We won't break a window. We won't even curse anybody. We only come with the power of our souls and the presence of our bodies to love the hell out of the state of Alabama.
- [52:14]
Andrew Young
I was very, very tense throughout the day until Dr. King finished his speech. Glory hallelujah, his truth is marching on. And we ended the march singing we shall overcome. And I walked over and I went into the church. The only private place I could find was the toilet. And preachers sort of get used to that. It's the last refuge. A good cry in private is a good release. I don't think crying is a weakness. I think crying is a spiritual release. We lived through a half a century of emotional tension, and it can wear you out. It took me a few minutes to kind of pull myself together. Just because we reached there and sang We Shall Overcome didn't mean that the struggle was over.
- [53:33]
Rachel Maddow
Well.
- [53:43]
John Hope Bryant
Rachel, no one has mastered the media like you have. And I want you and John to talk about the graphics of what happened on the Edmund Fetters Bridge that you just used in a documentary. Was the media bringing to life what a thousand sermons couldn't bring to life?
- [54:04]
Rachel Maddow
There's a very. There's just a couple of frames in that footage where you can see, I don't know if any of you noticed, painted on the door of a station wagon, cbs. You see the reporters around the edges there. Of course, implicitly, you know that the reason that we have that footage is because of the coverage of it and the reporting on it isn't heroic, and the presence of the media isn't heroic. But the conveying through the media of that spiritually impeccable practice, that was. That nonviolent movement was something that could not help but resonate in the heart of good people. And that is the blessing and the overwhelming force of moral clarity. And in a disciplined, non violent, spiritually grounded movement, anybody who can see it by any means that they can see it will be moved by it unless their heart is stone. And that is. It is humbling as somebody who's in the media right now, who gets to make decisions every day about what gets on TV and what doesn't, what we cover, what we show, what we don't, recognizing that importance of it. And I also feel like in this moment of. I mean, this film is going to air on Friday night on MSNBC, and on Saturday, 6 million Americans are going to protest against the Trump administration.
- [55:38]
Clark Atlanta University Philharmonic Society
And.
- [55:45]
Rachel Maddow
We didn't plan it that way, but the lesson of Ambassador Young's own personal journey, his spiritual discipline, his spiritual reflections, what he says there about crying is a blessing. But to be reminded about why this is a moral inheritance for us as a country, not just some impressive movement that we can study as history, but rather a way that we learn what it is to be citizens now and what it is to be good people and to call on the goodness in our fellow Americans. I just. I'm very humbled to be. Have anything to do with this, but for the timing. It's very moving to me.
- [56:32]
Reverend Al Sharpton
Rachel, what you and Phil and your team have done here with this film, this documentary. You're showing the world a modern day Nelson Mandela. It's the closest thing we have to Nelson Mandela in the world today. You're showing him in real life and he's sitting right in front of you. He's one of the framers of the new constitution for this country. Now, there were some rules to your point, and Reverend Sharpton knows what I'm about to say about structure. And it didn't work out on that bridge. One of the rules was you don't march before 10, you don't march after three. You needed the media not to be cranky in the morning, give them breakfast. It was only NBC, cbs, ABC and the New York Times, basically. And you needed them time to get their film, their can of film on a plane back to New York to be processed for the 6 o' clock news and the New York Times to get their story in. That was rule number one. There was another rule where Dr. King would set it up with the marching and Andrew Young would pay it off in six weeks or so when the economy shut down. He would go in and negotiate with the business leaderships to take the whites only signs down. Because all the places where I had the whites only signs were for profit businesses. The lunch counters, J.C. penney's, all these places, bus companies, those were private businesses. It was really an economic strategy. One of the problems they had there, Dr. King got the date wrong. Dr. King was supposed to be there. Now, I'm gonna let him tell this. It's very little known story, but they were scheduled to be there. And if they were there, everything would have happened differently because they wouldn't have attacked. Dr. King, over to you, sir.
- [58:21]
Andrew Young
Well, the thing was that we made a mistake. And the mistake was we forgot that preachers have to be in the pulpit on the first Sunday. And so this was the 7th of March or something, but that was the first Sunday and community scheduled it. We didn't think of that. But all of the preachers were back in their home churches. But we had three or four hundred people that came from all the rural counties around Selma. And John Lewis was there, I was there. In fact, I think I was home. And I drove over when I realized we'd made a mistake. But. But we were on the phone with Dr. King. He was in the pulpit at Ebenezer getting ready to preach. And he was saying, can you hold him up? And I said, I don't think so, but. And we couldn't. So he then suggested that we go ahead and march. I said, they're probably going to turn us around. And he said, well, don't you go. You stay, because we'll be over there this afternoon. Well, when he got there, they didn't turn him around. They drove the horses into the pack and John Lewis got really beaten up. But Mrs. Amelia Boynton was the lady that invited us to Selma. She had gone to Selma when she was 18 in 1932, working for George Washington Carver, teaching sharecroppers how to feed their children when in a depression. And so she was still sort of the mother superior of that region. In fact, she lived and was old enough to walk across that bridge with Barack Obama as president later on. So it's. Yeah, but we still have not. We still haven't redeemed Selma. And I still worry about. And I'm hoping that that's why I've been picking on John a little bit, that Tim. Who's the Apple man?
- [60:49]
Reverend Al Sharpton
Tim Cook.
- [60:50]
Andrew Young
Tim Cook is from around. He went to Auburn and he's from down in Mobile. That's right along that near Selma. And, you know, if Apple decided that they could make. They could make cell phones on Highway 80, we could redeem everything from here clean on over to Dallas. Yeah. Let me ask you this. So that's where we turn. That's where we turn it over to John and Operation Hope. No, I mean, you, you know, all these rich white folks, that's the one thing I mean. Well, all the people knew us.
- [61:38]
Reverend Al Sharpton
Get him back on script, please.
- [61:40]
John Hope Bryant
He is the script. But, but let me, let me ask you this. And, and I'm stepping out of bounds, but I'm going to do this. Dr. King, after 64, Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, 65, he got the Nobel Peace Prize. And what most people don't know is the President didn't want to see him. And something very powerful happened that only you and Dr. King knew about. What was that?
- [62:11]
Andrew Young
When we went to see President Johnson.
- [62:14]
Reverend Al Sharpton
You were in New York.
- [62:17]
Andrew Young
We were in New York and we had a meeting at the Armory. And there were two people waiting for Dr. King. When he got there first was Malcolm X. And Malcolm X was there saying, I don't want to go in. This is your show. But I want to let you know that I'm with you all the way. And I'm really proud of you for carrying the movement the way you're doing it.
- [62:42]
Clark Atlanta University Philharmonic Society
See?
- [62:43]
Andrew Young
And when we went to Selma to march, when Martin was in jail, Malcolm came down there to visit him.
- [62:56]
Reverend Al Sharpton
You're not Answering his question. What he talking about everybody else. He talking about that. No, no, you talking about you. You were in New York, Rockefeller and you and Dr. King were in New York. You tried getting an appointment they wouldn't.
- [63:09]
John Hope Bryant
Get with Lyndon Johnson, huh?
- [63:11]
Reverend Al Sharpton
When Lyndon Johnson would not give you an appointment after the Nobel Peace Prize.
- [63:16]
Andrew Young
He gave us the appointment because Governor Rockefeller announced publicly that we could take his plane, would carry us to Washington the next day. And so when we got down there, though, the President Johnson was meeting with all of the Vietnam hawks, and we had to sit, we met with the Vice President and the Attorney General for almost two hours. And when we got in with President Johnson, he was whipped because all of these warmongers and they were talking about wanting him to drop atomic bombs on Vietnam and everything else. And Dr. King said. He kept saying, I agree with you, Dr. King, I just don't have the power. And so when we left, I said, you know, he's right. He doesn't have the power and you don't have the power. He said, we gonna get the President some power.
- [64:24]
Clark Atlanta University Philharmonic Society
Wow.
- [64:25]
Andrew Young
See? And I said, huh? What are you talking about? Excuse me? And this is what I really told him. I didn't talk to him. Like, I said, here we are walking out of the White House. They didn't have all those fences in. And I said, you, Morehouse man, you all are something else. I said, you ain't got a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of, and you go get the President some power. I said, that's more nerve than a brass ash monkey. But he didn't pay any attention to me. He said, no, we're going to get. The President's in power. And I didn't know, and he didn't know that Amelia Boynton was watching all of this, and she was in Selma. And when we got back two days later, she showed up with a carload of preachers about coming to Selma. And it took at least in just three months, we found a way to get the President some power, and we passed that 65 Civil Rights Act. And when I said, that's the only time I saw him cry, it was because I was sitting on the floor and we were at the doctor's house that had let us stay there, and we were. We were looking at Lyndon Johnson make that speech where he closed it with We Shall Overcome. And that's the only time I saw a little tear drip down the side of his face.
- [66:15]
Clark Atlanta University Philharmonic Society
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- [66:19]
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- [67:10]
Civil Rights Movement Participant (possibly John Lewis or another marcher)
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- [67:13]
Andrew Young
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- [67:41]
Rachel Maddow
Ambassador Young, you were with Dr. King when he was killed.
- [67:47]
Reverend Al Sharpton
So Rachel, just want to acknowledge Killer Mike and TI are here. Give him love. Just give you before he goes. Killer Mike, God bless you. There's a lot of looming knowledge of hip hop culture is coming in, showing their respect.
- [68:06]
Rachel Maddow
Oh God bless you. When you made the decision, you talk in the film about planning his funeral, how difficult the decisions were around that time, how difficult the logistics were around the funeral and dealing with the mass of humanity and what people wanted to do to show their respects how difficult that was. How did you go from that, that really nadir, that crisis, that low period to deciding to run for Congress? It's not immediately evident from this distance that that's the direction you would go at that time.
- [68:52]
Andrew Young
Well, actually the Sunday before he went to Selma, I mean, he went to Memphis. He spoke at St. John Cathedral of St. John the Divine, and then he went over to Harry Belafonte's house for dinner. And John Conyers was there, Congressman from Detroit, Dick Hatcher, Mayor of Gary, Indiana. I was there, Ralph was there. And we all started talking about how we were gonna get the movement to move into politics. And Martin was the one who said, look, we shouldn't have to march a thousand people just to get a message to the school board. We're supposed to elect people to the school board. We're supposed to elect our city council members, elect our mayors and our governors, and politics is the way to do this, not mass action only. Now, we agreed we didn't know how we were gonna get there, but when he was killed, I didn't believe he was dead. Now, it's funny. I am a kind of funny Christian, but when I was a little boy, they told me that Elisha went to heaven in a flaming chariot. And I said, I don't believe that. And they put me out of Sunday school. But I never forgot that. And when I saw Dr. King laying there, it seemed like he was perfectly at peace. But I really believed. And I still to this day see him going to heaven on a flaming chariot. And I never believed and still do not believe that he's dead, that his spirit has been with us. Everything that's happened in Atlanta, whether it was Maynard Jackson or Bill Campbell or Shirley Franklin, I mean, all of our mayors have had a part of the same vision, Fresno mayor included. And we've had nine black mayors in a row. But we built the world's busiest airport. We had one of the biggest and best Olympics in the world. And everything we've done, we've tried to do right, and we've tried to do it with everybody included talking about that part.
- [71:36]
John Hope Bryant
You went to Congress, became mayor, but you also became ambassador to the union under Jimmy Carter. Your work in Africa, a lot of people after Jimmy Carter was elected president, he made you the ambassador. I want to take a look at the clip Rachel did on your work in Africa.
- [71:58]
Andrew Young
And Ambassador, it's time for us to.
- [72:02]
Civil Rights Movement Participant (possibly John Lewis or another marcher)
Get together to correct our mistakes, to.
- [72:05]
Andrew Young
Answer difficult questions, and to make our nation great.
- [72:08]
Clark Atlanta University Philharmonic Society
Thank you.
- [72:09]
Reverend Al Sharpton
The for very much.
- [72:14]
Andrew Young
The November election made Andrew Young a national political power. The black vote went to Jimmy Carter by better than 92%. It made the difference in seven states, including Pennsylvania and Ohio. And the president elect gave Young a big share of the credit for that. When Carter won the election, he invited me out to play tennis. And then we set out on our front step for the governor's mansion. That's sort of where he talked to me about going to the UN Given a choice. Of all the jobs in the administration, the only one I was possibly interested in was the United Nations. He said, we focus totally on Russia and Cold war politics. We have really neglected Africa. If I could get you to go to the un we could change America, America's relationships with Africa and much of the rest of the world. You can't say no to that. The last of Mr. Carter's top foreign policy officials, UN Representative Andrew Young, drew louder applause than the President when he entered the East Room and has heard me say this many times, and I've never said it about anyone else. Of all the people I've ever known in public service, Andy Young is the.
- [73:21]
John Hope Bryant
Best, so help me God.
- [73:23]
Andrew Young
It all happened so fast. My son got to start school in a UN school, and my daughter went to the UN Academy and we lived in the Waldorf Astoria. Young begins his fourth career. He's been a minister, civil rights leader, congressman. Now it's diplomat. Mrs. King said to me, I really wish you would go to the United Nations. She was worried about my security. I said, look, I stayed alive with all of those sharks and snakes around your husband. I said, I'm not the least bit afraid of the folk I'll run into at the un. Humans are another phenomenon. I'm very well prepared to work with people I disagree with. As a black boy in the Deep South, I learned to be comfortable talking to people from different backgrounds. And that's the key to our relationships around the world. President Carter said, I want you to visit Africa as soon as possible. Andrew Young, the American ambassador to the.
- [74:27]
Civil Rights Movement Participant (possibly John Lewis or another marcher)
United nations, is in Tanzania today.
- [74:29]
Andrew Young
He said, meet as many African leaders as you can. It's not necessary to agree. It's only necessary that we understand each other and respect each other. UN Ambassador Andrew Young was in Mozambique today. These policies represent a revolution in the consciousness of the American people. Kenyan citizens turned out en masse in Nairobi today. The American delegation was led by United Nations Ambassador Andrew Young. This, and this for 10 naira. That's alive. Young's visit showed a renewed American interest in Africa, and his cordial reception showed that Nigeria might be willing to make a fresh beginning. How are you doing, Andy Young?
- [75:08]
John Hope Bryant
I to see.
- [75:09]
Andrew Young
Young eventually did get down to work, meeting a number of African leaders, including President Kunda of Zambia. Andrew Young will be telling black nationalist leaders that the United States supports their struggle for political power in South Africa. The blacks are an overwhelming majority. The government enforces white minority rule as the law. The land. If South Africa is going to be a part of the civilized community of nations, then the civilized, humane, intelligent people are going to have to make national policy. Right now, the boys to government is not humane, not civilized, nor is it intelligent. The South African Government called and said we were not welcome. Young has upset the South Africans because he agreed with the premise that the government there is not legitimate. The United States Embassy has until now been permitted to maintain an aircraft in South Africa for the use of the ambassador. The privilege is summarily terminated. I went to the United States Embassy, said, who is the meanest son of a bitch you know? And he said, P.W. boter. There was probably the worst meeting I had with any foreign leader. He was a hard nosed Afrikaner and launched in with what he thought were controversial questions. How long do you think we have before the bloodbath? One day soon these black people are going to wipe us all out. And I said, I don't think so. And I said, president Carter doesn't think so. If you are interested in moving toward a multiracial democracy, President Carlo will be glad to put the full power of his office behind that process. He was kind of shocked, but he stood up and grunted. So I turned and walked out. He didn't even shake my hand. Wow.
- [77:21]
John Hope Bryant
Let me ask you, as you look at what's going on now from the Voting Rights act under threat to what's going on in Africa today, and you have a global view no one else has, what do you hope people come away from this film being inspired to do and that you in your life may inspire them at this hour? So we're not just looking at history, but we're looking at a challenge right now.
- [77:53]
Andrew Young
Well, I hope you realize that my life with Martin Luther King was just the beginning. My parents prepared me very well, I think, and I did the best with my children. I got one daughter here who runs the ACLU in Georgia and my brother who I grew up with in New Orleans is a dentist and he and his wife have continued. We're still around and you're around and the struggle has paused. Now. One of the things I've seen is I've seen the way people have changed in Africa. I've seen the way South Africa's changed. I've seen they don't. We don't like the way Zimbabwe has changed, but it's changed. And the kinds of struggles we have had that we show in this movement, the whole world has got to go through and you in. I mean, one of the things I'm so grateful for, MSNBC and Rachel Maddow and Phil Griffin and there was another young fellow from London by the name of Matt. Okay. And that we have a significant amount of soul power and brain power and socioeconomic power and we have not been defeated by anybody. And if we had not sat down and gotten confused about all of the commotion around the last couple of elections, we'd be a lot better off. But we're just at the beginning of this movement because we not only have to save ourselves and Atlanta's way out front, but we've got to save the entire planet.
- [80:28]
John Hope Bryant
Let me end this by going to you, Rachel. You are by far the most prolific person on television. You will never say that, but I'm.
- [80:40]
Andrew Young
Saying.
- [80:43]
John Hope Bryant
And being that you are that, and I know you beat me up backstage for saying that, but you are. You could do any project you want because you're putting your name to something is in demand. Why at this point in American history, was it important for you to come and do the story of Andrew Young?
- [81:06]
Rachel Maddow
There isn't one answer to it. But I will tell you that doing this work on this project, spending this much time learning the story of Ambassador Young, hearing him reflect, including emotionally reflect on what it was like to live these decisions, these transitions, these hard moments, has changed me, has changed my thinking about how I think about our country and also how I think about how I talk about our country. You have made me realize that when we are asking people to put participate in big fights, long term fights with terrible odds, where what you have is the righteousness of your cause, spiritual grounding and the unity with your compatriots and everything else is on the other side. I have been too flip in describing that as a noble and patriotic obligation. It is something that asks a lot of people at a human level, even unbelievably talented and brilliant people such as yourself. The pain that you experience and that you're willing to talk about in this film is instructive. Because I think right now, in this moment, with what we are up against as a country, we gotta be real about what it means to not just go to the speeches and not just honor the leaders, but actually do the work. And doing the work is very hard and it changes your life and not always for the better. And it is very difficult decisions. And it is a lot of dirty work. And it is work that never lets up. And that doesn't mean that it is not noble and it is not patriotic. But we have to be real about how much we are asking people to do in standing up against a government that is doing a lot of wrong. And you more than anybody in this country have that story to tell. So for me, I feel like it's a blessing that you were willing to do this work with us to tell this country this story at this moment. And it's changed me. And I think the people who watch this, I hope it changes them too, because I think this makes us smarter. And at least for me, I feel like it has increased my soul power, as you put it.
- [83:36]
Andrew Young
Well, you know, I want. One of the things that Dr. King used to say all the time was.
- [83:41]
Rachel Maddow
That.
- [83:44]
Andrew Young
Network television is worth a million dollars a minute. And he would say, be very careful with what you say on the news because you may have two minutes a night on three networks. What our friends have done from MSNBC is they've given us the possibility of 90 minutes of national television. And if you figure that out at a million dollars a minute, y' all have done good. And you may have saved our lives for the future and prepared another generation through this, because nobody's ever done this before. I mean, the stories we hear and the stories we tell and the people who are sitting around here.
- [84:44]
John Hope Bryant
All of.
- [84:45]
Andrew Young
Us sat in this very same auditorium. Martin Luther King did. Why Walker, Hosea Williams, all of us came up the same way you are. And what I hope we get out of this is a notion that we're all part of the struggle now. The person who kind of keeps me in the struggle now and I can't find it is the lady I'm married to. Oh, there she is. Would you please stand up, Carolyn? Carolyn is a board member of Clark Atlanta University. She's 30 years a school teacher, more than that, maybe. And she has the reason I could get by. I married two school teachers and schoolteachers get pensions. Cause I didn't get any pensions in anything we were doing. And well, I educated.
- [85:59]
Clark Atlanta University Philharmonic Society
Well.
- [86:00]
Andrew Young
Four children, nine grandchildren and got two great grandchildren I'm still working on. But Carolyn is teaching for 30 plus years in the Atlanta school system after getting her degrees from Clark and Georgia State. And means that she has good insurance. And she's. I mean, I meet all these big boys, six, five, six, six. And they say, your teacher, your wife taught me. I said, yeah. And they say she really was good. I say thank you. I say she's good to me.
- [86:42]
John Hope Bryant
All right. Andrew Young.
- [86:46]
Andrew Young
But it, but this is if we get the message about that this movement is about family. It's about your relationship to the God who created you. And the way I got to the dirty work was coming out of Howard University, if you'll excuse my expression. But I had fucked up royally. I mean, I had a college degree and I didn't know anything. My daddy wanted me to Be a dentist. And I didn't want to be a dentist. But we stopped at Kings Mountain and I ran up the top of the mountain and I'd been on the track team, so I was in good shape. But when I got up there, everything looked perfect. And I said, golly, everything has a purpose. The trees have a purpose, the cows have a purpose. You know, the clouds have a purpose. Whoever made all this couldn't have made everything with a purpose but me. And I said, how do I find my purpose? If there's anything that I think needs to be done and then nobody else wants to do it, that's my purpose. It's not always good, it's not always fun. It is the dirty work. But that's where Martin Luther King started. Martin Luther King was voted to be head of the Montgomery Improvement Association. And he wasn't even in the meeting. He was in the back room running the mimeograph machine because he was just 25 and he was the youngest preacher there. And two of the older preachers got in an argument about whose turn it was to be the spokesman. And the women got up and went to the head of the NAACP and said, why don't we give that young man in the mimeograph room a chance? And he had. It's about 7:30, the mass meeting was at 8 o'. Clock. He had to put together a message between 7:30 and 8 o', clock. Had no time to take any notes or write anything out. And yet his wife was expecting a baby and couldn't be there, so she got it recorded. And what we have on that tape is we have a speech that this 25 year old brother made that includes some of the same things he said at the March on Washington in his Nobel Peace Prize. But he had no time. The only thing he had time to do was go to the bathroom and close the door and be quiet for 30 minutes. And then he had to get up and lead the nation. Wow. And so all of us have fallen far short of our potential. But we got a long way to go. And if I can make it 93 years, y' all can make it to. Well, these sisters down south, they're 90 and 100, 102. My Indian fellow with my foundation says that Hindus don't think about the end of life because if you think about it, it shortens your life. Maybe that they think that we're capable of living to 129, see? And that in their meditations, that's what they focus on. Continuing to serve, to give to Grow. Because we are our heavenly Father's children.
- [90:35]
John Hope Bryant
All right, Andrew Young, let me thank. Let me thank Ambassador Young. Let me thank Ambassador Young for being so open to this, and let me thank John Hope Bryant for putting this together. Together and being the light.
- [91:10]
Clark Atlanta University Philharmonic Society
That he.
- [91:11]
John Hope Bryant
Is and all he means to all of us. Even though I'm getting backstage, he got introduced me to some of them rich white folks he was talking about. But let me also thank this sister. We love him.
- [91:28]
Andrew Young
She put Come on, come on, come on.
- [91:35]
John Hope Bryant
She put her brand, she put her name, she put her career. She put, as we say in Harlem, she put her foot in it. So tell everybody 9 o' clock Friday night, they gotta watch. I know we all caught up on the shutdown and we caught up on what's going on in Gaza and we caught up on what's going on in Ukraine. But the way out is to do the dirty work. And we'll learn that on Friday night.
- [92:04]
Andrew Young
Thank you, everybody. Thank you for coming. Thank you.
- [92:10]
Reverend Al Sharpton
And thank you. Please, Reverend Sharpton came here for this. He's got to fly back tonight. Can you please give a rousing thank you to Reverend Al Sharpton?
- [92:20]
Clark Atlanta University Philharmonic Society
Thank you.
- [92:25]
Rachel Maddow
That's my conversation this week at Clark Atlanta University with Ambassador Andrew Young and the Reverend Al Sharpton and John Hope Bryant. My new documentary is called Andrew the Dirty Work. It airs for the first time ever Friday, October 17th at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. And now, once again, because you know you want to hear it, here's a little bit more from the Clark Atlanta University Philharmonic Society.
- [93:20]
Clark Atlanta University Philharmonic Society
I won't be afraid for in the time of trouble shall I Lord, you are my light. Lord, you are my joy. You're my salvation. Shall I I don't have to worry me I won't be afraid for in the time of trouble shall hide me, hide me, shall hide me, hide me. He shall hide me in a tabernacle he shall set me upon the rock of love. He shall hide me in his heaven. He shall set me the honor of the soul. Lord, you are my light. Lord, you are my joy. You are my salvation. Whom shall I be? I don't have to worry. I won't be afraid. For in the time of trouble she'll shall hide me, hide me, shall hide me, hide me. It is never on the floor it shall hide me. It is never to be. Unto you I will sing praises, praises unto you I will sing praises, praises unto you I will sing praises, praises unto you sing praises I will sing praises, praises unto you I will sing praises, praises unto you sing praises, praises unto you, praises unto you. Foreign.
- [96:52]
Ted Danson
Hey everybody, Ted Danson here to tell you about my podcast with my longtime friend and sometimes co host Woody Harrelson. It's called where everybody knows your name, and we're back for another season. I'm so excited to be joined this season by friends like John Mulaney, David Spade, Sarah Silverman, Ed Helms, and many more. You don't want to miss it. Listen to where everybody knows your name with me, Ted Danson, and Woody Harrelson sometimes, wherever you get your podcasts.