Red states feel the pain of Trump's heedless federal funding cuts

Summary

The Rachel Maddow Show: Red States Feel the Pain of Trump's Heedless Federal Funding Cuts
Release Date: February 13, 2025

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I. Introduction to Federal Funding Cuts and Their Impact

In the February 13, 2025 episode of The Rachel Maddow Show, host Rachel Maddow delves deep into the ramifications of the Trump administration's sweeping federal funding cuts. The episode meticulously examines how these cuts are predominantly affecting red states, with a particular focus on Alabama, and explores the broader implications both domestically and internationally.

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II. Elon Musk’s Cybertruck Fiasco and State Department’s Armored Tesla Purchase

The show opens with Alex Wagner discussing the much-hyped Tesla Cybertruck. She recounts Elon Musk's infamous demonstration of the truck's supposed indestructible glass, which spectacularly failed during the unveiling:

"Maybe that was a little too hard. The guy who threw the thing at the window, that's the chief designer at Tesla. This was the big rollout, the big armored glass rollout to show the whole world how nothing can break that glass."
— Alex Wagner [03:43]

Wagner criticizes the State Department’s recent decision to allocate $400 million of taxpayer money to purchase armored Tesla production units, questioning the practicality and intent behind this move:

"This really appears to be the State Department announcing, putting in writing that it's going to spend $400 million buying these paperweights from Elon Musk."
— Alex Wagner [04:34]

She further highlights the potential conflicts of interest, noting Musk's position as President Trump’s top campaign donor:

"This is a line item in the latest procurement forecast for the U.S. Department of State... Donald Trump and Elon Musk... obviously a super kosher use of taxpayer funds and not at all... self-dealing by the President's top campaign donor."
— Alex Wagner [04:33]

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III. Public Protests Against Administration Policies

The episode shifts focus to widespread public protests against the administration's dismantling of key federal agencies. Wagner describes protests outside the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) and the Department of Education, highlighting public outrage over attempts to defund these institutions:

"Americans today showed up there once again to defend it. Honk for CFPB. Hands off our CFPB."
— Alex Wagner [05:00]

Additionally, there were significant demonstrations outside the Department of Education in anticipation of Linda McMahon’s confirmation hearings, where activists voiced their opposition to the planned abolition of the department:

"Our public education in America is under attack... we are here to say, hell no, we are not going to let them destroy the Department of Education."
— Alex Wagner [10:59]

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IV. Democrats’ Town Halls and Constituent Mobilization

Rachel Maddow emphasizes the proactive response from Democratic legislators who are engaging with their constituents through large-scale town halls to oppose the administration’s policies. Wagner provides striking statistics of unprecedented turnout:

"Congressman Jimmy Gomez from California says nearly 10,000 people... Congressman Greg Stanton, Democrat of Arizona... 14,000 people in her district called into her town hall."
— Alex Wagner [20:00]

She contrasts this with Republican representatives, noting their reluctance to engage similarly, thereby highlighting a growing political divide.

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V. Impact on Red States: Alabama as a Case Study

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to examining the specific impacts on red states, using Alabama as a primary example. Wagner discusses the withdrawal of federal funding leading to immediate hardships for residents:

"Huntsville Utilities tells FOX 54 that some customers... now need to pay that money back. This is a direct result of President Trump's executive order to rescind federal funding."
— Alex Wagner [25:00]

She underscores the economic turmoil caused by these cuts, including job losses and increased living costs, which have sparked public frustration and criticism of the administration’s fiscal policies.

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VI. USAID Shutdown and Global Repercussions

The episode takes a critical turn as Rachel Maddow and Alex Wagner explore the Trump administration’s decision to dismantle USAID and its global fallout. Wagner references international reactions, illustrating widespread condemnation from authoritarian regimes:

"Authoritarian Regimes around the World Cheer on Dismantling of USAID."
— The Guardian, as cited by Alex Wagner [33:30]

Additionally, Wagner discusses Elon Musk’s controversial remarks undermining USAID’s credibility, further exacerbating tensions:

"Elon Musk posted... 'USAID is a criminal organization.'"
— Alex Wagner [34:30]

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VII. ACLU’s Legal Battle Against Immigrant Detention Practices

In a pivotal segment, Wagner interviews Lee Gelernt, deputy director of the ACLU’s Immigrant Rights Project, regarding their lawsuit against the administration’s policy of sending immigrants to Guantanamo Bay. Gelernt highlights the legal and humanitarian crises emerging from these actions:

"People who have worked with the United States on programs... are in real grave danger tonight because of what our government is doing."
— Alex Wagner [44:30]

Gelernt criticizes the administration’s lack of transparency and calls for public action to oppose these inhumane practices:

"People need to let their voices be heard... we don’t want you going after families. We don’t want you sending people to Guantanamo."
— Lee Gelernt [45:15]

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VIII. Conclusion and Political Outlook

Rachel Maddow concludes the episode by reflecting on the intense political battles unfolding in Washington, D.C. She underscores the determined efforts of Senate Democrats to delay contentious nominations and resist the administration’s agenda:

"Senate Democrats are going to hold the floor all night tonight... they are doing everything they can as their constituents demand."
— Alex Wagner [47:00]

Maddow emphasizes the critical role of politics in addressing and potentially reversing the detrimental policies, urging viewers to remain engaged and informed.

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Key Takeaways:

• Elon Musk and Federal Spending: The mismanagement and impractical use of federal funds through high-profile but ineffective projects like the Tesla Cybertruck highlight potential corruption and inefficiency within the administration.

• Public Resistance: Significant public protests and robust engagement from Democratic legislators indicate widespread opposition to the administration’s federal funding cuts, especially in areas crucial to public welfare and education.

• Economic Hardships in Red States: States like Alabama are bearing the brunt of the funding cuts, leading to immediate financial distress for residents and undermining public services.

• Global Implications of USAID Shutdown: The dismantling of USAID has not only domestic repercussions but also strains international relations, with authoritarian regimes leveraging this move to suppress opposition and civil society.

• Legal and Humanitarian Concerns: The ACLU’s lawsuit against the administration’s treatment of immigrants underscores the legal and ethical crises that are emerging, calling for urgent judicial and public intervention.

• Political Strategy and Future Outlook: The determined efforts by Senate Democrats to counteract the administration’s policies signal an ongoing and intensifying political struggle, with significant implications for the country’s governance and democratic institutions.

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This episode of The Rachel Maddow Show paints a comprehensive and critical picture of the Trump administration's federal funding cuts, illustrating the multifaceted consequences on both national and international scales. Through detailed analysis, interviews, and on-the-ground reporting, Maddow provides viewers with a nuanced understanding of the current political and economic landscape.

Transcript

[Rachel Maddow]

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[Rachel Maddow]

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[Alex Wagner]

You know, if you want an electric pickup truck, you can buy one. There's a bunch of different kinds out there now. There is a Ford F150 Lightning. There's an electric version, an EV version of the Chevy Silverado. There's an EV version of the GMC Sierra. There is an EV version of the Dodge Ram. The company Rivian has a cute electric pickup truck that's called the R1T. Even the Hummer. The Hummer comes in a gigantic electric pickup configuration. If you want to if you want to drive a Hummer, so you know you have a bunch of choices if you want to buy one of those vehicles, you will have all the convenience and capacity and sort of swag that a pickup truck gets you without ever having to go to the gas station. Or you can buy a Tesla Cybertruck, which is meant to seem very different than all the other electric pickup truck options in the United States. And that is in large part because the Tesla Cybertruck is not supposed to be just tough like a pickup truck is. It's supposed to be super duper like inhumanly tough. For example, the head of Tesla, a man you may have heard of named Elon Musk, he unveiled the Tesla Tesla Cybertruck first time the whole world was getting a look at it. He unveiled it by regaling this whole big room of assembled journalists and Tesla super fans. They're all going crazy for everything he said. He regaled them with this story that one of the most amazing and distinguishing and totally unique things about his electric truck was that it was basically indestructible. He explained that Tesla, in its wisdom, had created an armored exoskeleton for the truck. What other truck has that? Because it has this armored exoskeleton, basically nothing can harm this truck. He said it was literally bulletproof. And then he said he would show everybody just how indestructible, how impermeable, how undentable his magic truck was, how everything would just bounce off it, no matter what you threw at it. That was the big unveiling of the Tesla cybertruck. And here's how that went. Franz, could you try to break this glass, please? Yeah.

[Jim Himes]

Sure.

[Alex Wagner]

Yeah. Oh, my. Well, maybe that was a little too hard. Oh, my. Oh, my effing God, is what he says. Maybe that was a little too hard. The guy who threw the thing at the window, that's the, like, chief designer at Tesla. This was the big rollout, the big armored glass rollout to show the whole world how nothing can break that glass. He throws the thing in, the glass just breaks. And then the designer guy, Franz, he says, let me try again. He clearly has a lot of confidence in this vehicle, right? So he basically says to Elon Musk, let me try the other window.

[Jim Himes]

Let's try that.

[Chris Hayes]

Right?

[Alex Wagner]

Try that one. Really?

[Chris Hayes]

Okay, sure. Oh, man.

[Alex Wagner]

It didn't go through. All right. Not bad. Room for improvement. That was Elon Musk's big rollout of the unbreakable armored glass of his electric truck. And, you know, the truck has its fans, just like everything Mr. Musk does has its fans. But it has definitely had its share of problems and embarrassments. And, you know, frankly, from the very first seconds that it was introduced to the world, it has had a large share of not living up to the hype. Especially the part about these drugs being unbreakable and indestructible and having this impermeable armored glass. Dumbo. Tesla armor glass. Oops. Well, now, as the top campaign donor to US President Donald Trump, Elon Musk has apparently summoned. Somehow convinced the United States government, specifically the United States Department of State, that the taxpayers of the United States of America should spend $400 million buying, quote, armored Tesla production units, the line item here appears to be for a $400 million taxpayer purchase of production units of armored Teslas. So since I only supposedly armored production vehicles Tesla makes are these hilarious trucks, this really appears to be the State Department announcing, putting in writing that it's going to spend $400 million buying these paperweights from Elon Musk. This is a line item in the latest procurement forecast for the U.S. department of State. It started Circul online today as the rest of the government and the rest of the country continued to contend with Elon Musk and Donald Trump's claims that boy, they've sure found a lot of waste in the government. And isn't it great what they're doing? Isn't it great and definitely not at all illegal or profoundly corrupt for the President to put someone with billions of dollars in government contracts personally in charge of deciding what happens to government contracts. I mean, hopefully the State Department isn't planning on parking its $400 million worth of armored Tesla production units like under a walnut tree or out in the rain, but otherwise that's obviously a super kosher use of taxpayer funds and not at all. $400 million worth of self dealing by the President's top campaign donor to who whom he has handed the keys to the kingdom. Definitely not ripping us all off to pay themselves. Right? This was the protest today outside the headquarters of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau in Washington, which Donald Trump and Elon Musk have not just insisted must die, they insist they have killed it themselves just on their own. Say so. They didn't go to Congress to say let's defund this agency. They didn't go to the courts, like challenge the legality of the agency, announced it was closed. They announced that it was over. Now Elon Musk's social media company, what used to be called Twitter, just announced that they're going to set up an online payment system on Twitter with Visa. An online payment operation like that is something that would be regulated by the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Other online payment schemes have recently resulted in thousands of Americans losing their entire life savings and never getting their money back. So yeah, that's the sort of thing that the CFPB exists to regulate and shut down when they're ripping people off. But you know what, if the CFPB doesn't exist, that presumably will make it easier for Elon Musk to do whatever he wants to people who he signs up for his new payment system on X Twitter. He has announced the death of the cfpb. It is not up to him. Americans today showed up there once again to defend it. Honk for cfpb. Hands off our cfpb. This was today in Washington, people showing up in person to defend the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau on a very cold, very snowy day in Washington D.C. also today, another big protest outside the Department of Education. Also in downtown D.C. the confirmation hearing for Donald Trump's nominee for education secretary, Linda McMahon, the wrestling executive, her confirmation executive is her confirmation hearing is tomorrow. There's been reporting that the Trump administration's orders have already been drafted directing Linda McMahon as education secretary to start shutting down the department, to start the abolition of the Education Department as soon as she is sworn in. Because of that reporting, I think in part, people were out there today in advance of her confirmation hearing tomorrow saying, no way we will defend the U.S. department of Education in this country. Oh, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired, and I wish I was here under different circumstances, but I'm pissed off. Our public education in America is under attack not by budget cuts, not by policy debates, but by the people who want to tear it down. I think that Elon Musk needed better math teachers because he says he's looking.

[Jim Himes]

For savings by going after the $4.

[Alex Wagner]

A day we send to make sure students have lunch every day, instead of looking at the $8 million a day that go to Elon Musk in federal contracts.

[Chris Hayes]

What we're fighting against is Elon Musk.

[Alex Wagner]

An unelected billionaire, and President Donald Trump, who we all know the scam, the scam that this is about, which is taking our corporate tax rate from 21% to 15% and doing that on the backs of our children, on the backs of educators, on the backs of our public school system. And we're here to say, hell, no, we are not going to let them to destroy the Department of Education. Department of Education provides funding for 26 million kids who are living in high poverty areas all over this country. And we have the radical idea that maybe poor kids deserve the same quality education that rich kids do. It was today outside the headquarters of the U.S. department of Education in Washington, D.C. regular people and people who work at the Education Department, and as you saw there, a whole ton of Democratic members of Congress and senators saying, hands off, saying, hell no. We're going to defend this part of who we are as a country. We're going to defend this part of our government. It's not legal for you to declare it shut down, and we're not going to let you shut it down. More than 60% of the country says, do not shut down the Department of Education. Trump and his top campaign donor, Elon Musk, say they're going to shut it down anyway. Well, it looks like it is not going to happen without a fight. And, you know, we are seeing members of Congress turn out at these protests, at these rallies and demonstrations. This hasn't had as much attention. But it's also worth knowing that Democratic members of Congress and Senators have also been convening town halls when they can get back to their districts, like this one in Connecticut, convened by Democratic Senators Chris Murphy and Richard Blumenthal. Look at this one. This is another town hall that was just convened in Kentucky. Look at this. Louisville, Kentucky, convened by the local Democratic Party. Look at the kind of turnout they are getting of people who want to fight against what Trump is doing. Again, this is in Kentucky, just a few days ago in Louisville. Congress has been in session in person for these first three weeks that Trump has been in office. So in a lot of cases, that means individual senators and members of the House, they can't get home to their districts yet. They've only been able to convene town halls, town halls thus far by phone, teletown halls, or in some cases by zoom. But I want you to look at this. I don't know that this has been reported elsewhere, at least in aggregate, but I was shocked by these numbers today when we started looking this up today. Look at the numbers they're getting at these town halls. Congressman Jimmy Gomez from California says nearly 10,000 people, more than 9,800 people called in from his district for his telephone town hall. He called a town hall on the phone and 9,812 people from his district called. Wow. Congressman Brendan Boyle from Pennsylvania, he just convened what he called an emergency town hall for his district in Pennsylvania. It had more than 10,000 people calling in. Congressman Greg Stanton, Democrat of Arizona. He says he had more than 13,000 people call into his town hall in Arizona. Kim Schreier is a Washington state congresswoman. Her office says 14,000 people, 14,000 people in her district called into her town hall. Congresswoman Terry Sewell is from Alabama. Alabama, not exactly a bleeding heart blue state. Right. Congresswoman Sewell says that when she convened a town hall last night, they had more than 20,000 people on the line from her district. More than 20,000 people in Alabama in one congressional district in Alabama. Alabama voted for Trump by like a 30 point margin in the election in November. But you know what the largest employer is in Alabama? It's the Redstone Arsenal at Huntsville, Alabama. And every day, that is where 30 or 40,000 federal employees of various stripes go to work or people whose jobs are funded by the federal government and its appropriations. That's the largest employer in the state of Alabama. You know what the second largest employer is in the state of Alabama? It's the University of Alabama at Birmingham, which like all large research universities, has just been shot in both proverbial kneecaps with Trump and Elon Musk unilaterally asserting with no notice and against the law that research facilities like UAB are about to have their funding dramatically and immediately cut, but with no warning. And those are like just the big cuts, like the existential cuts for a state like Alabama and its economy. Local news in places like Huntsville, Alabama this week are already reporting on smaller, lower profile cuts that are already sending local people just reeling. Some Huntsville Utilities customers have been notified that their accounts have been debited, all due to one of the one of President Trump's expenses, executive orders. Huntsville Utilities tells FOX 54 that some customers who receive grant money from the federal government through local community action agencies now need to pay that money back. This is a direct result of President Trump's executive order to rescind federal funding. And although a federal judge did block this order last month, today that judge found the Trump administration did not fully follow his order. Accounts have been debited. They're just taking money out of people's accounts as part of their utility bill. Oh, Trump cut off all that money that's been helping pay your utility bill, Alabama. And so now we're going to start taking all that money back. And by the way, you owe, you owe. You have to pay money more than you have been, not only for your additional bills. You have to pay back what Trump is no longer allowing to be spent. And that, you know, Alabama utility customers finding hundreds of dollars suddenly taken out of their account in the middle of winter. Right. I mean, I guess it's a small story in the grand scheme of things, given what's going on in our whole country. But for people in Alabama, that's a real and immediate and hugely expensive thing that is very obviously Donald Trump's fault in a state that really supported him. So what's the impact of that? Right? I mean, Republicans from Alabama, like Alabama Senator Katie Britt, have started to freak out publicly about what Trump and Musk dismantling the government is doing to her state. Specifically, quote, Senator Britt was one of the first Republicans to raise concerns at home soon after the Trump administration directed the NIH to slash $4 billion in costs for medical research grantees. Senator Brit, whose state has received more than $518 million in NIH grants just for projects that are currently active there, tells a local news outlet that she will press Trump officials to take a, quote, smart, targeted approach to cuts so as to, quote, not hinder life saving groundbreaking research at high achieving institutions like the University of Alabama at Birmingham. What do you think the odds are that she's right, that they're, what did she call it? That they're going to take a smart, targeted approach because they're trying hard not to hinder life saving work. What do you think the odds are that she's right about that? Did I mention that 20,000 people, 20,000 Alabama residents just phoned into a town hall last night for their Democratic Congresswoman Terry Sewell? Who do you think's got a better grasp on the stakes here for Alabama Congresswoman Sewell dealing with 20,000 of her panicked constituents last night? Or Katie Britt who says, I'm sure they don't want to actually hurt us in Kansas, Kansas Republicans are now trying to salvage pieces of usaid, which was shut by Donald Trump and his top campaign donor Elon Musk. They're trying to salvage pieces of USAID by moving those pieces into the Agriculture Department or someplace else that might survive since Kansas farmers are taking the hit for millions and millions and millions of dollars worth of those USAID cuts. Already in North Carolina, Republican Senator Ted Budd has decided to put his fingers in his ears and pretend it's not happening. Quote, Senator Ted Budd of North Carolina, whose state includes two of the largest recipients of NIH grants in Duke University and UNC Chapel Hill, said, quote, there's great research being done by all of our institutions. We need to protect that. Quote, I think the White House wants to protect that. Do they, do you think they want that? Do you think that's why they just ordered devastating existential level cuts across the board immediately with no warning to all research institutions? It's because they want to protect that great research. Do you think that's why they did it? Senator Butt actually went so far as to say on the record that he, quote, agrees with Trump's cuts to universities and medical and scientific research. He agrees with it and he is telling his constituents he agrees with these cuts. But, you know, he's also sure, sure that the Trump White House really in their heart of hearts wants to protect the universities and research facilities and like UNC and Duke are gonna be fin and all the other huge employers in his state that get that kind of funding, that provide, I don't know, the whole foundation for his state's economy. He's just told his constituents he agrees with these cuts that are likely to put thousands of people out of work in North Carolina and destroy the foundation of that state's economy. He says he agrees with those cuts, but he also thinks, you know, probably it's going to be fine. After all, they're good people. I'm sure their hearts are in the right place. Imagine being a Republican senator or member of Congress and trying to sell that cybertruck full of horse hockey to your constituents. I'm sure it'll be fine. They're good people. Do you notice it's only Democratic members of Congress and Democratic senators who are holding these huge town halls? I wonder why Republicans don't want to talk to their constituents right now. I mean, and I got to say, it's not that talking to the constituents has been an easy thing for Democrats in these past three weeks. I mean, the Democrats are getting pushed by their constituents, too. They're getting pushed to do as much as possible to do anything possible to stop Trump and what he's doing with Elon Musk. Here, for example, are Colorado residents turning up at the offices of Democrats John Hickenlooper and Michael Bennett telling them, number one, vote no on all Trump cabinet appointments. Number two, deny unanimous consent to slow down the Senate. Number three, publicly oppose Musk's dismantling of the executive branch, pushing these Democratic senators to push harder, to fight harder. I said they're being tough. They did also bring cookies. Here's Virginia residents turning up at Senator Mark Warner's office telling him, fight back. Fight back, Senator Warner, fight harder. Here's Georgia residents turning up at Jon Ossoff's office in Georgia telling him ossoff, fight back. Here's New Jersey residents at Senator Cory Booker's office telling him, Senator Booker, the time to fight is now. Fight like hell. Here's California voters at the office of Senator Alex Padilla. Block, delay, obstruct, no excuses. Here's Hawaii voters at the offices of their senators Brian Schatz and Mazie Hirono. Senate Democrats, blanket opposition. What's happening right now in politics and politics is the way we get out of this disaster, right? What happens right now, what's happening right now in American politics is that Republicans are hiding from their constituents. Republican elected officials are hiding from their constituents and when they do have to address them, they are trying to tell them that they're sure everything is going to be fine. They have read only access to the treasury payment system. I was told. I'm sure they want to protect our universities and our life saving work and research. I'm sure of it. Republicans are hiding from their constituents and when they have to talk to them, they are telling them la la la la la. I'm sure it's going to be fine when clearly it is not going to be fine. Democrats are not hiding from their constituents. Democrats are being inundated with not just feedback from their constituents, but also with their constituents pushing them to do more, to fight harder. And this is a story that is all therefore heading in one direction. I got to tell you, we are expecting another big protest tomorrow in Washington, D.C. at the headquarters of the VA. We are hearing rumblings of big protests that are being planned targeting Elon Musk's companies, including not just Tesla like we have already seen, but also his other companies. We've reached out to the State Department and to Tesla for comment tonight on those $400 million the State Department is planning on spending on armored Tesla production units. We hear back from them on that, we'll be sure to let you know. But you know, watch what's happening in the country and watch what effect it's happening on policy and watch what effect it's happening on politics because politics is how this will turn around. And tonight, case in point in the United States Senate, Senate Democrats are going to hold the floor all night long overnight, pulling out every stop they can to try to stop the bizarre and to many people, terrifying nomination of Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. To be health secretary. Democrats right now in the United States Senate are holding the floor and they're going to hold it all night tonight. They are doing everything they can. They're doing everything they can as their constituents demand. They must. A lot more to come tonight. Stay with us.

[Rachel Maddow]

Stay connected with the MSNBC app bringing you breaking news and analysis anytime anywhere.

[Alex Wagner]

Let's get up to speed. We've got some breaking news right now.

[Rachel Maddow]

Watch your favorite shows live.

[Alex Wagner]

There's a lot happening here in Washington as Donald Trump's second term starts to take shape.

[Rachel Maddow]

Read live blogs and in depth essays and listen to coverage as it unfolds. Go beyond the what to understand the why. Download the app [e-mail] app hey everyone, it's Chris Hayes.

[Alex Wagner]

This week on my podcast, why Is this Happening? Bloomberg News reporter Zeke Fox on what the heck's happening with crypto. What crypto is good for is crazy gambling. And there's a very big group of people around the world who've realized this is kind of fun. I like gambling on crypto. I know somebody who made a lot of money on it. Maybe I should try to find the next bitcoin. That's this week on why is this Happening? Search for why is this Happening wherever you're listening right now.

[Rachel Maddow]

And follow MSNBC Presents, a new original podcast hosted by Jen Psaki Each week, she and her guests explore how the Democratic Party is facing this political moment and where it's headed next.

[Alex Wagner]

There's probably both messaging and policy issues, but as you look to kind of where the Democratic Party is, do you think it's more a messaging issue, more a policy issue?

[Rachel Maddow]

The Blueprint with Jen Psaki subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for ad free listening and bonus content.

[Alex Wagner]

Over the past 20 years, election monitoring groups, human rights organizations and anti corruption efforts have been funded in part by USAID, which has provided more than $2.6 billion to Russia. President Vladimir Putin has now ended USAID's programs, reportedly out of concern they interfere with elections by aiding opposition groups. That was 2012. In 2012, 13 years ago, the Vladimir Putin government Kremlin expelled USAID from Russia. Now here we are 13 years later and Donald Trump and Elon Musk's shutdown of usaid, shutdown of that entire agency that is being celebrated by authoritarians everywhere. Russia called it a, quote, smart move. Hungary's dictatorial leader Viktor Orban hailed the shutdown, his allies saying they couldn't be happier. Here's how the Guardian headlined it Authoritarian Regimes around the World Cheer on Dismantling of usaid. Nicaragua's state media, controlled by the family of the president, declared that Trump turned off the faucet for what they labeled terrorists. Venezuela's interior minister announced plans to investigate the agency, saying the government's opposition was paid by usaid. But it's not just that. Authoritarian leaders around the world and dictators around the world are celebrating this move by Donald Trump. The damage done by shutting this agency is turning out to be an ongoing and now newly serious disaster. When Elon Musk posted to his hundreds of millions of followers online, quote, usaid is a criminal organization that turns out to have had consequences. You know who's been more than happy to pick that up and run with it? Check this out. This is from the Guardian newspaper's Andrew Roth. Today, quote, right wing and autocratic governments have their knives out for usaid, demanding data on grant recipients from Elon Musk and threatening employees and grant recipients with investigations and prison. USAID has long been a thorn in the side of governments in the region who have railed against US Support for pro democracy and civil society movements. Well now local leaders for the first time see an ally in Washington that will back a crackdown on USAID and its beneficiaries as if they are criminals. In Georgia, the government, not the state of Georgia, the country of Georgia, the government There has opened a mysterious case after the Prime Minister accused the US Embassy, USAID and other American backed organizations of quote, acting in a coordinated manner against the Georgian people and the Georgian state in Slovakia. The Prime Minister there published a letter to Elon Musk in which he asked Elon Musk to share information about NGOs and the media and individual journalists who have worked in his country. In Russia, the State Dumas speaker said the government should request a list of people who received funding from USAID and that they should be made to, quote, publicly confess and repent on Red Square, quote, if they've declared USAID an enemy organization, let them provide the names. Congress will send us the list and we'll hand it over to the fsb. One current USAID employee tells the Guardian, quote, this is Trump's Afghanistan withdrawal, cutting and running and leaving people who have faithfully and consistently worked for the USA in our interests being left behind to be jailed or worse. Joining us now is Congressman Jim Himes, Democrat of Connecticut. He's a ranking member on the House Intelligence Committee, the top Democrat on that committee. Congressman Himes, I really appreciate you making time tonight. Thanks for being here.

[Jim Himes]

Thanks for having me, Rachel.

[Alex Wagner]

I confess that I worried a lot about the legality of what it meant to be shutting down usaid. I worried about the false information and lies and the impact of that in terms of the ways they were describing what USAID is. I worried about the material impact of shutting down USAID programs that do good work and keep people alive. I, before today had not yet let my brain go there. That we are inviting dictators and tyrannical regimes around the world to arrest and imprison people who are associated with US ID for the crime of working with the United States of America. The Guardian reporting today on this scale has put a real chill through me and I wanted to get your reaction to it.

[Jim Himes]

Yeah, yeah. You know, I mean inside DC circles there's hard power. That's the military, the battleships, the F35s, the weapons, and there's soft power. Now, soft power's a little harder to understand. Soft power is persuasion. It's winning hearts and minds. But let me tell you a story to best illustrate how important soft power is. And the USAID is all about soft power. When I was a freshman, I think it was 2009, 2010, four star Marine Corps General James Jones walks into my office in a cloud of lethality and testosterone cuz he is a United States Marine to his core. And he says to me, I need you to support the Foreign aid budget and usaid. And let me tell you why, because I used to have the most unbelievable weaponry you can imagine floating off the coast of Lebanon and Hezbollah was beating me. They were building hospitals for people because they were running newspapers because they were providing food. And he said, if you don't fully fund soft power, USAID hearts and mind stuff, I'm going to lose a lot more Marines. So you couldn't have said it better. You know, if nothing else, when the worst people on the planet are giving you a standing ovation, it's worth asking exactly why that's true.

[Alex Wagner]

I'm worried also about the immediate danger to people who again their grave crime is having worked with the United States on programs that the US Congress agreed to and the American people funded. I mean, the Guardian's reporting that some of these, you know, tyrannical governments around the world are now asking Elon Musk personally for information from USAID's files. Grant recipients, non governmental organizations, individual journalists, journalists that have been operating in their country because they had some connection to usaid. I have to ask you, does Elon Musk have access to that kind of information? Does he have any authority to share it with other governments? Is there anything that can be done to prevent that eventuality?

[Jim Himes]

Well, you know, given the impunity and the illegality with which Elon Musk and his Merry band of 20 year olds have been operating in D.C. with the Honest answer is I don't know, but I would certainly assume that they've got access to what they want. Now a judge has said you don't get access to the payment system and you know, all kinds of judges, you know, a dozen plus of them are pushing back. But these are not people, certainly not Elon Musk, who respect the law or the truth. So yeah, that is a very real danger. And you know, it's not an accident, Rachel, that they went after usaid. If you ask most Americans what's the one part of the foreign of the federal budget you would cut they say 4 and 8. Cuz maybe they don't know that story about Jim Jones and how important it is to keeping security. Maybe preservation of democracy and decency abroad is an abstraction relative to the price of eggs. But what they are seeing right now is their country, their country whose grandparents fought the Nazis, whose parents fought the Soviets, cutting and running from those people who are risking their lives to try to promote democracy in various places around the world, by the way, including Ukraine. You saw what I did today with President Trump and the Secretary of Defense. Basically saying, oh, man, Ukrainians shouldn't have wandered into this war anyway. We're always going to lose it. You know, the United States is cutting and running from the role that we have always played in the world, which was to stand for democracy and a better future for the world's people.

[Alex Wagner]

Congressman Jim Himes, ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee. Because of the Intelligence Committee and its remit, I know a lot of what you know you can't talk about. But I'm going to keep asking you about this stuff because I'm really worried about some of these folks around the world and some of the hardest places to live in the world who are in real grave danger tonight because of, because of what our government is doing. Thanks for being here tonight, sir. I appreciate it.

[Jim Himes]

Thank you.

[Alex Wagner]

All right, we'll be right back. Stay with us.

[Rachel Maddow]

Auto insurance can all seem the same.

[Alex Wagner]

Until it comes time to use it.

[Rachel Maddow]

So don't get stuck paying more for less coverage. Switch to USA Auto insurance and you could start saving money in no time. Get a quote. Today, restrictions apply. USA It's President Trump's first 100 days and MSNBC's Alex Wagner will be covering it all from the front lines. What issue matters to you the most? Join her as she travels the country to talk to the people at the center of the President's policies and promises.

[Alex Wagner]

Do you think now that he's pardoned everybody, he can count on this group of people again?

[Rachel Maddow]

Search for Trumpland with Alex Wagner wherever you're listening and follow support. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen ad free. Stay up to date on the biggest issues of the day with the MSNBC Daily Newsletter. Each morning you'll get analysis by experts you trust, video highlights from your favorite shows.

[Alex Wagner]

I do think it's worth being very clear eyed, very realistic about what's going on here.

[Rachel Maddow]

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[Alex Wagner]

In the first week of this new Trump administration, CNN reported that federal immigration agents were being told explicitly to be, quote, camera ready for their jobs. They weren't just supposed to carry out their responsibilities as immigration officials. They were supposed to make sure they looked the part they were going to be making a big show of. They wanted them to dress right for the cameras. Nobody has embodied that ethos more than Trump's Homeland Security Secretary, Kristi Noem. Here she is wearing what appears to be a bulletproof vest in New York City. Sure, here she is at a meeting. Who doesn't need to wear a bulletproof vest to a meeting? Here she is in full Customs and Border Patrol uniform on set at Fox News. She is not a Customs and Border Patrol agent, but she had them, I guess, make her a uniform. Here she is in a cowboy hat because, sure, why not? Here she is at the southern border on a horse because, sure, what's a cowboy hat without a horse? It's the same kind of theatrical propaganda that the administration has been using for the most expensive parts of this operation thus far. Things like using military aircraft to carry out deportation flights, which they are still doing. Yes, using military aircraft makes the deportations look military, ish, makes them look very tough and dramatic. But it also reportedly costs taxpayers like more than triple what it would cost to just put them on a normal flight. But while that sort of thing is all being done for its propaganda impact and frankly to instill maximum fear in immigrant communities, that kind of propaganda also has a different kind of cost, including some really bad outcomes. Already, we have already, for example, seen a surge of people impersonating immigration officials, saying that they're immigration officers pretending to be immigration officers basically just to be able to more effectively harass and terrorize people who aren't white. Late last month, for example, a man was arrested in Raleigh, North Carolina for allegedly impersonating an ICE officer, threatening to deport a woman if she didn't have sex with him, and then allegedly sexually assaulting her. About a week later, it was a man in South Carolina arrested for alleged kidnapping, larceny, assault and battery for impersonating an ICE officer, detaining a Spanish speaking driver against his will. Today it's the New York Police Department asking for the public's help in tracking down a man who they say posed as an ICE agent in Brooklyn. He then punched and robbed and nearly raped a 51 year old Hispanic woman. Woman. People pretending to be immigration officers because that'll instill maximum terror. Maybe that'll help them commit their crimes. While the Trump administration is continuing to demonize immigrants every way they can to pump out as militaristic a propaganda effort as they can, there is a rising effort not just to defend immigrants individually, but to fight back against, against what Trump is doing. Yesterday, 27 different religious groups across the country filed a lawsuit to prevent immigration arrests in houses of worship. Today, the ACLU sued the administration over its new practice of sending immigrants to Guantanamo, which the ACLU says Among other things, denies them their legally required access to their lawyers. The lead attorney on that case from the ACLU is going to join us here next. Stay with us. The ACLU today filed a lawsuit on behalf of the families of three men who are believed to have been sent by the US Government from Texas to Cuba to the US Naval base in Guantanamo Bay. Did they have anything to do with 911 or the war on terror? No, they did not. According to the lawsuit, quote, On February 5, 2025, Ms. Gomez Lugo saw photographs of immigrant detainees transported to Guantanamo. She immediately recognized her brother til in one of the photographs. The lawsuit goes on to say that Ms. Gomez Lugo tried to contact her brother both herself and through legal representatives. She's not been able to contact her brother. Federal law requires that lawyers are able to communicate with their clients. The ACLU says that at Guantanamo that thus far isn't happening for people who are being shipped there from the United States. So they filed this suit. Joining us now is Legal Learn. He is the lead attorney on that lawsuit. He's deputy director of the Immigrant Rights Project at aclu. Lee, it's nice to see you. Thanks for being here.

[Chris Hayes]

Thanks for having me.

[Alex Wagner]

Why do you think the US Government is sending immigrants to Guantanamo?

[Chris Hayes]

Yeah, I think that's a good question. I think part of it is exactly what you hit on in your introductory piece, that it's a lot of theater, right? It's more expensive to send them to Guantanamo. There's no reason to do it. Yet they're doing it and they're taking pictures of the men. Right. And you know, for three decades we have been always asked the government for information about immigrants and they've always said no, there's privacy concerns, we can't give you any information. Now all of a sudden we see these pictures splashed everywhere of these men on the tarmac and Guantanamo. So there's no question there's theater going on. I also think that they're trying to, you know, keep them isolated, not let them assert their rights, keep them away from counsel. And so that's why we filed this lawsuit. You know, the first lawsuit we need to file was just to get access to these men. Who are they? What's their situation? Do they want attorneys and do they want to assert their rights? I think there will be follow up lawsuits trying to prevent people from being sent there in the first place. But right now we just need to reach these men.

[Alex Wagner]

You know, CBS News reported today, Lee, that among the men who have been sent so far to Guantanamo, despite the Fact that this was only going to be the worst of the worst. And the most dangerous criminals among the people who've been sent so far are nonviolent, quote, low risk men who lack serious criminal records, don't appear to match at all the government description of why they needed this facility to be used in the first place. Do you actually know enough about who's there thus far to be able to comment at all on that CBS reporting, or do you know anything else about how they've been deciding which people actually go there?

[Chris Hayes]

We don't. And that's one of the problems. I mean, I have no reason to doubt the CBS report. It's consistent with the way the Trump administration has always acted. A lot of hyperbole about who these immigrants are, casting all immigrants with a criminal net. And it turns out, of course, not to be true almost consistently. And so I have no doubt that the CBS report is accurate. But we don't have independent confirmation. That's exactly why we need to get down there and see who these people are. And even if they have criminal histories, they have rights that they can assert. They don't send people back, even if they have a criminal history, to torture. But we have no doubt that not everyone there is going to have a serious criminal history.

[Alex Wagner]

Lee, I know that you have been gearing up for and getting ready for, and you've been very clear eyed about what the Trump campaign said they wanted to do on this issue. You've been getting ready for this stuff since before the November election. What do you see as your most potent weapons? People who are watching this right now, who want to help, who want to help, say no to what the administration's doing. What can normal people do?

[Chris Hayes]

Yeah, I'm glad you asked that, Rachel. You know, we are, as you said, clear eyed about how much we can get done in the courts. We think the courts will stand up and will push back on certain things, but not everything can get done in the courts. I think any civil rights lawyer will tell you it needs to come more from the people. So, as you know, from covering family separation so closely, it was the people who take you into the streets and say, saying, not in our name. And I think that's what people need to do, is they need to say, look, we wanted more immigration enforcement, but this is not what we wanted. We don't want you going after families. We don't want you sending people to Guantanamo. People let their voices be heard about this. I also would say to young lawyers, just take one case, do one thing, help One family. Don't be overwhelmed by the fact that these problems are so big. I think every family you have help, they will be so grateful and you will feel very good about what you've done. You know, But I think people's voices need to speak out. I get so many people calling and saying, wait, we didn't think this is what they meant by mass deportation, going after families, going after sending people to Guantanamo, separating families. So I do think people need to let their voices be heard. My own feeling is that when they ask the question during the campaign, do you want extra immigration enforcement, mass deportations, that question was too abstract, too vague. People didn't really know what they were voting for. I think when people see what's happening in practice, I'm hopeful they'll push back and say, just like they did with family separation, look, there's a point at which we don't want to cross. And I think Guantanamo is one of those situations. This is the first time in history that we've taken people off US Soil and sent them to a remote island. I never thought, I thought I would see the day when that happened in the United States, that we'd be sending people from the United States to a remote island, denying them access to the outside world. And presumably, who knows what's happening with the conditions, but they can't be good.

[Alex Wagner]

Presumably the ACLU trying to stop it right now in part with this lawsuit. Lee Gelernt, deputy director of the ACLU's Immigrant Rights Project, lead attorney on this case. Lee, thank you very much for your time tonight. Keep us surprised.

[Chris Hayes]

Thanks for having me, Rachel.

[Alex Wagner]

All right, we'll be right back. Just one last thing before we go. What you are looking at right here is a live shot of the Senate floor right now. The reason it's happening right now is because Senate Democrats are staying up all night tonight refusing to give up the floor in order to delay the confirmation vote of Robert F. A worm ate my brain and died. Kennedy Jr. To be our nation's next secretary. Health of all things. Thanks to Senate Democrats actions here tonight holding the floor all night. That vote has been delayed until 10:30am tomorrow. Just the booster shot we all needed. Perhaps you should get yours now. That's gonna do it for us for now. I'll see you again tomorrow night and every night this week, 9:00pm Eastern, as.

[Rachel Maddow]

President Donald Trump returns to the White House. Follow along as his agenda takes shape with the new MSNBC newsletter. Trump's first 100 days weekly expert insight on key issues sent straight to your inbox. Sign [e-mail] TRUMP100.