Trump fires 1,300 at Department of Education; programs expected to suffer with staff gutted

Summary

The Rachel Maddow Show: Trump Fires 1,300 at Department of Education; Programs Expected to Suffer with Staff Gutted

Release Date: March 12, 2025

In this episode of The Rachel Maddow Show, host Rachel Maddow delves deep into the escalating turmoil within the Trump administration, focusing primarily on the recent mass firing of 1,300 employees at the U.S. Department of Education. The episode comprehensively covers the political, economic, and social repercussions of Trump’s ongoing policies, the legislative inactions, and the widespread public outcry.

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1. Trump’s Missteps and Public Perception

The episode opens with a recounting of a peculiar incident involving Donald Trump and a Mikhail Gorbachev impersonator. Stuart Holm narrates the event where Trump greeted the impersonator as if he were the real Soviet leader, raising concerns about Trump’s discernment in dealing with Russian affairs.

[02:49] Donald Trump: "I hope we didn't disturb your schedule."

This moment serves as a segue into broader discussions about Trump’s handling of international relations and domestic policies.

2. Economic Fallout from Tariff Policies

Maddow and Holm analyze the severe impact of Trump’s tariff policies on the U.S. economy. Following a significant drop in the stock market and a 500-point decline in the Dow Jones Industrial Average, the episode highlights how these tariffs have destabilized financial markets and heightened fears of a looming recession.

[07:24] Stuart Holm: "Republicans are facing a political situation in which their party appears to be doing this right. The US Economy looks like it's being destroyed for fun by Donald Trump."

3. Congressional Inaction: Ceding Power to Trump

A critical examination is presented on how Republicans in Congress have failed to utilize their authority to counteract Trump's tariff-induced economic distress. By slipping procedural language into measures, Republicans have effectively prevented any resolution to end the tariffs, thereby relinquishing their power to limit the president’s unilateral actions.

[07:24] Stuart Holm: "Republicans are facing a political situation in which their party appears to be doing this right... They decided to give that power away so they no longer have that power."

4. Legal Defeats and Judicial Pushback

The show underscores a series of legal setbacks for Trump, where multiple federal judges have ruled against his administration’s actions. Notable cases include the reinstatement of Gwen Wilcox to the National Labor Relations Board and rulings preventing the Trump administration from altering constitutional provisions regarding citizenship.

[22:30] Stuart Holm: "Every single day of the week and sometimes twice on Saturdays, the American people continue to show up and say no to what he's doing in significant numbers."

5. Widespread Public Protests

Rachel Maddow highlights the nationwide protests against Trump’s policies, including cuts to Veterans Affairs, immigration reforms, and the attempted dismantling of the Department of Education. These movements, spearheaded by veterans, federal workers, and local communities, reflect the growing resistance against Trump’s administration.

6. Attempted Abolition of the Department of Education

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Trump’s alarming move to abolish the Department of Education by firing over 1,300 employees. Holm critiques Secretary Linda McMahon’s assertions that program continuity will remain unaffected despite the massive staff reductions.

[43:44] Sharia Smith: "If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn."

7. Foreign Policy Challenges and International Relations

The podcast touches upon Trump’s foreign policy blunders, including the controversial ceasefire plan in Saudi Arabia and the exclusion of U.S. counterparts from vital military meetings with allied nations. Holm sarcastically questions the administration’s competence in handling international diplomacy.

8. Republican Reluctance in Town Halls

The discussion shifts to the political dynamics within Congress, where Republican representatives are avoiding town halls with constituents. This reluctance is contrasted with Democratic efforts to engage and address voter concerns, exemplified by Congressman Mark Pocan’s initiative to hold town halls in Republican districts.

[30:34] Stuart Holm: "He didn't show up and he's unwilling to talk about the basic issues that we have."

9. Interview with Congressman Mark Pocan

In an insightful interview, Democratic Congressman Mark Pocan elaborates on the importance of constituent engagement and criticizes Republican representatives for their failure to address critical issues like Medicaid cuts and Social Security. Pocan emphasizes the need for transparent governance and accountability.

[31:51] Mark Pocan: "The bare minimum you should do as a member of Congress is listen to your constituents."

10. Union Leader Sharia Smith on Department of Education Layoffs

The episode features a poignant conversation with Sharia Smith, president of the AFGE union representing Education Department employees. Smith condemns the mass layoffs as discriminatory and unlawful, asserting that the administration is disproportionately targeting women and people of color.

[40:47] Sharia Smith: "The Department of Education should be a model employer."

Smith expresses unwavering resolve to fight the firings legally and urges public support against the administration’s draconian measures.

11. Conclusion: The Broader Implications of Trump’s Policies

Rachel Maddow wraps up the episode by reflecting on the cumulative damage of Trump’s policies on various government departments and societal structures. The dismissal of competent officials, undermining of democratic processes, and the fostering of public dissent are painted as indicators of a system in deterioration.

[35:08] Rachel Maddow: "As President Donald Trump returns to the White House, what will the first 100 days of the presidency bring?"

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Key Takeaways

• Economic Instability: Trump’s aggressive tariff policies have led to significant market downturns and fears of a recession, with Congress failing to intervene effectively.

• Legal Pushback: The judiciary continues to thwart Trump’s attempts to undermine institutional integrity, reinforcing constitutional checks and balances.

• Public Resistance: Extensive protests and grassroots movements demonstrate widespread opposition to Trump’s policies, signaling potential shifts in public sentiment.

• Political Dysfunction: The reluctance of Republican representatives to engage with constituents contrasts sharply with Democratic efforts to maintain transparency and accountability.

• Institutional Erosion: Attempts to dismantle key government departments like Education signal a broader strategy to weaken federal institutions, raising concerns about future governance.

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This episode of The Rachel Maddow Show presents a comprehensive analysis of the Trump administration’s controversial actions and their far-reaching consequences, offering viewers a critical perspective on the current state of American politics and governance.

Transcript

[Rachel Maddow]

The last thing you want to hear when you need your auto insurance most is a robot with countless irrelevant menu options. Which is why with USAA Auto insurance, you'll get great service that is easy and reliable, all at the touch of a button. Get a quote today. Restrictions apply. USAA subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. New episodes of all your favorite MSNBC shows now ad free plus ad free listening to all of Rachel Maddow's original series, Ultra Bagman and Deja News. And all MSNBC original podcasts are available ad free and with bonus content including why is this Happening? Felshi Band Book Club and more. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

[Stuart Holm]

Thanks Stuart Holm, for joining us this hour. Really, really, really happy to have you here. Man, there is so much to get to today. It has been such an incredible news day. There's so much to get to and a lot of it is really terrible to buoy ourselves for that, to get ourselves ready for that. You want to start with something funny? Let's just do it. Let's start with something funny. Okay. I know there's a lot of terrible things to talk about. I want to start with something funny from the 80s. So it's 1987. A real estate developer in New York City named Donald Trump takes his first trip to Moscow in what is then the Soviet Union. By all accounts, he kind of falls in love with the place. He decides he wants to build a hotel there or something. Who knows? Following year 1988, Donald Trump is back in New York, and the leader of the Soviet Union, Mikhail Gorbachev, is going to come to New York. He's coming to New York to participate in the United Nations General Assembly. And on the occasion of that visit, Mikhail Gorbachev coming to New York City, Donald Trump decides to invite him over because he's going to be in town, you know, even though Mikhail Gorbachev is the leader of the Soviet Union and Donald Trump is real estate guy in New York City, Donald Trump apparently convinces himself that Mikhail Gorbachev is going to do this. They're going to hang out, that, yes, Gorbachev has to go to the United nations to do head of state things, but also sure, since he's around, he'll drop by Donald Trump's apartment. Donald Trump is so convinced of this that when a Mikhail Gorbachev impersonator comes to Trump Tower to make fun of the whole situation, Donald Trump himself comes out of Trump Tower onto the sidewalk and greets the Mikhail Gorbachev impersonator as if he is the real Gorbachev, who's really there to come see him, the real leader of the Soviet Union, because, sure, yeah, that guy would just pull up outside your apartment and beep, beep, come say hi.

[Donald Trump]

Drill of cash, the home of hyperbole and mansion to the master himself, Donald Trump, who made a special effort to whiz down from his penthouse office and greet our guest. Mr. Trump is coming now. He's just come down very briefly. We were on our way. He wanted a couple of minutes.

[Stuart Holm]

I like your tie. Right color. Thank you. Appreciate.

[Donald Trump]

I hope we didn't disturb your schedule.

[Stuart Holm]

It was beautiful and I heard and I couldn't have been happier. Very good. I couldn't have been happier. Good luck with everything.

[Donald Trump]

Thank you very much.

[Stuart Holm]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Donald Trump]

I'm very glad.

[Stuart Holm]

Great time. Thank you, sir.

[Donald Trump]

Thank you very much. I'm sorry to disturb you. I just wanted to pop in. Okay.

[Sharia Smith]

Thank you.

[Stuart Holm]

Hey. Hey. I like your tie. Oh, you like my tie? Spacebo. Hey. Hey. So there you have it. That is a thing that happened. Lest anyone tell you that we should trust Donald Trump on dealing with the Russians, not getting played by the Kremlin, him definitely having lots of savvy when it comes to dealing with Russia, lest you hear that argument, you can just think of that beautiful moment of Donald Trump enthusiastically pumping the hand of the Gorbachev impersonator. I like your tie. Oh, you like my tie? Donald Trump later said he totally didn't fall for it at all. He definitely knew that was an impersonator. Sure, sure, he did. Judge for yourself. So there's that. We'll come back to that in a moment. But the news today really has just been astonishing. After yesterday's massive trillion dollar dive in US Stock markets because of Trump's tariff chaos today, he was not chastised by yesterday's market reaction. His pronouncements and mumblings on tariffs got even more chaotic and incoherent. And the Dow dropped yet another 500 points today. And then at the end of the day today, after two days of that, Republicans in Congress did something truly amazing. Republicans are facing this political situation now, right where the markets are tanking, economists are forecasting a Trump recession. Literally. He inherited an economy that was the envy of the world. And in less than two months, Wall Street's in a tailspin and economists are upping their predictions of a US Recession by double digits per day. So Republicans are facing a political situation in which their party appears to be doing this right. The US Economy looks like it's being destroyed for fun by Donald Trump because someone once told this guy a thing he didn't understand about tariffs. And so now he's doing this and real people are feeling the pain. But here's the thing. The way Trump is able to put these tariffs on, off, on, off, up, down, postponed, exceptions, no exceptions, on, off, on, off. The reason he's able to change these ruinous policies as quickly as he can pronounce them is because he declared an economic emergency that gives him the power to unilaterally declare these tariffs. That kind of emergency, though it also has kind of an eject button when you declare that kind of emergency. Congress also gets the power to call the emergency off to stop the President from doing this. So Congress could just vote and declare this so called emergency to be over, and then Trump would no longer have the power to single handedly destroy the US Economy in the way that he has been. So because of that, because Congress has the power to call off the emergency, taking away Trump's tariff power, Democrats in Congress planned to make Congress vote on that exact thing. They plan to force a vote. So Republicans, who mostly say they don't like tariffs, Republicans would be forced to either go along with the tariffs anyway because Trump is doing them, or they'd cast their vote to stop Trump from doing these tariffs. What would Republicans do, confronted with the need to make up their mind on a vote like that?

[Donald Trump]

Right.

[Stuart Holm]

How would they deal with not just the prospect of opposing Trump, which inherently makes them cry and hide immediately, but then on the other side of it, the other side of that vote is this very real pain and loss of money. And you know, they and their constituents and the businesses in their district are all feeling and facing it's real. So Republicans in Congress have the power to stop Trump from doing what he's doing on tariffs. What will they do with that power? The Democrats are going to force them to take a vote on this. What are they going to do with that power? Republicans quietly cede power to cancel Trump's tariffs, avoiding a tough vote. Cede power. They literally had the power to stop Trump from doing something that is hurting the country materially every single day. Have the power to stop him from what he's doing. And so what did they decide to do with that power? They decided to give that power away so they no longer have that power, so they don't have to decide what to do with it. House Democrats had planned to force a vote on resolutions to end the tariffs on Mexico and Canada, a move allowed under The National Emergencies act, which provides a mechanism for Congress to terminate an emergency like the one Trump declared when he imposed the tariffs on February 1st. That would have forced Republicans, many of whom are opposed to tariffs as a matter of principle, to go on the record on the issue at the time when Trump's commitment to tariffs has spooked the financial markets and spiked concerns of reigniting inflation. But Republican leaders today on Tuesday slipped language into a procedural measure that would prevent any such resolution to end the tariffs from receiving any vote this year. They're literally ceding their power, giving it up. We don't want that power. And it gets better. In order to give up their power, in order to save themselves from the terrible dilemma of whether or not to cast a recorded vote on whether or not Trump should be allowed to keep hurting the country on purpose. In order to avoid having to cast a vote on that, Republicans had to figure out some way out of this trap. They had to come up with some way out of the provisions of this national emergency law. I mean, the national emergency law says Congress can end the emergency. He declared a national emergency in order to give himself the ability to proclaim these tariffs. The National Emergency law says if a. If a resolution to end the emergency is introduced in Congress, Congress must consider that they have to start the process of voting on it within 15 days. So now we know Democrats are introducing that resolution. That starts the clock ticking. That means Congress is going to have to vote on this 15 days tick talk in order to get around that binding requirement in the law. What did Republicans do? They proclaimed that between now and the end of this Congress, that is just one long day. That's just one day. The whole rest of the Congress, I am not kidding. Quote, each day for the remainder of the 119th Congress shall not constitute a calendar day for the purposes of this emergency declaration. The New York Times tonight called it a, quote, particularly unusual contortion. Republicans in Congress, quote, essentially declared the rest of the year one long day, so that 15 days will never elapse and they will never have to vote. And that is how the Republican led Congress voted to give away its own power to Donald Trump. So hopefully no one would know that they were actually responsible for not stopping him when they could have. Think it's going to work? Think nobody's going to notice what they did? I mean, with what Trump is doing right now, whatever happens to the markets and to your retirement account and to prices in the stores and the weakening of the dollar and failing small businesses where you live and failing large businesses, the longer this goes on. I mean, just remember, Republican members of Congress had the power very simply to stop him from doing this, and they explicitly gave that power away so they wouldn't have to do it. Courage. One of the places where Trump is getting stopped every day and now with increasing frequency, is in the courts. You might remember one of the very first court challenges to Trump that we covered here on this show in recent weeks. One of the very first people who Trump tried to fire. And she challenged it in court, saying, you don't have the legal right to fire me. I don't work for you. I'm taking you to court. One of those first early cases you might remember from the show was Gwen Wilcox. She's a member of the National Labor Relations Board. And Trump announced right away, as soon as he was sworn in, that he was firing her from the National Labor Relations Board. And she said, oh, no, you aren't. You do not have that right. She immediately took him to court, came to us here on the show to talk about it when she filed that case against him. Well, that case just a few days ago became one of the many court cases that Donald Trump has lost and that the people challenging him have won. And in the case of Gwen Wilcox, that led to Gwen Wilcox going back to work yesterday in Washington at the headquarters of the National Labor Relations Board, where she has been reinstated because she fought him and she won. And when she got reinstated and she went back to work yesterday, the whole dang office came out to cheer for her and clap and celebrate that she beat Trump and she's therefore back at work. And that agency is therefore back at work. I feel wonderful. This is where I belong. I belong here at the nlrb. I am so happy to be here. National Labor Relations Board member Gwen Wilcox, reinstated at her job at the National Labor Relations Board after she sued Donald Trump and won to challenge her firing and get reinstated. Today was another day of just loss after loss after loss for Donald Trump. In court today, one federal judge ruled that doge, the austerity and government demolition force run by the president's top campaign donor, doge, must disclose its records. They had structured DOGE in such a way that they thought they'd be able to keep everything they're doing secret from the public, that no records would have to be shown to the public about their work. A judge today said that they must hand over all records of their work. And right away, the judge said it was because of the, quote, unprecedented power and, quote, unusual secrecy of the group thus far. Also Today, a federal appeals court again cited against Trump on his effort to defy and thereby change the part of the US Constitution that says, if you're born here, you're an American. Federal judges, one after another, have ruled against him on this. Today it was a U.S. appeals court just one level below the U.S. supreme Court. Also today, a federal judge blocked Trump's cuts to hundreds of millions of dollars for teacher training. That ruling came in response to a lawsuit that was brought by eight attorneys general who are Democrats from Democrat run states. Yesterday, a federal judge blocked Trump from deporting a young man who is a lawful permanent resident of this country. He has a green card. Trump sent immigration agents to arrest him and they said they were taking away his green card, revoking his legal status in this country because he has been outspoken critic of the war in Gaza. A federal judge will hear his case tomorrow and in the meantime has ordered Trump to not deport this young man. Yesterday, in the USAID case that had gone all the way up to the Supreme Court, where Trump lost in the Supreme Court, and then it came back down in that lower court that it came back to last night, Trump lost again, that federal court judge in that case, ruling that Trump is not allowed to just unilaterally undo things that Congress has done by law. It's an important constitutional ruling. This is the case that's about funding for foreign aid programs, funding for services that have already been provided in the form of foreign aid. The judge now says the Trump administration has to start paying those outstanding invoices at a rate of at least 300 invoices per day. They must do it. The National Endowment for Democracy has now announced that its funding has started up again thanks to that court order that stopped the Trump administration from blocking those funds. So, I mean, that's not even. All of. That's just like a slice. There's a zillion ongoing court cases trying to stop the most blatantly illegal, illegal things that Trump is doing. And every day what we're seeing is that those proceedings are mostly cutting against him. And, yeah, we don't know how all of these cases are going to work out in the end, but for now, he's being stopped in court one way or the other. Every single day of the week and sometimes twice on Saturdays, the American people continue to show up and say no to what he's doing in significant numbers. Yesterday we saw a bunch of protests at VA medical centers all over the country. People protesting against Trump's huge cuts to the VA already. And the larger cuts that he has planned. That includes this protest in Eugene, Oregon, at the VA Medical center there. Also, there was a protest yesterday at the VA in Parma, Ohio, in Northeast Ohio. We're expecting a relatively big protest, a big march for veterans and by veterans in Washington, D.C. this Friday, March 14th. Today, federal workers who Trump has fired were at the Senate Office Building in Washington protesting against what Trump and his top campaign donor, Elon Musk, are doing to the government. A number of Democratic senators supported them today in this protest on the Hill today in New Jersey, people protested against Trump's immigration policies and against a proposed site for a new prison, a new detention center for immigrants that they want to put in. At Delaney hall in Newark, New Jersey, big crowd of people turned out today to protest against that. Today there was a very large protest in Tennessee at the Tennessee State Capitol. A lot of young people turning out there to show to protest against legislation in Tennessee that would block kids from schools based on their immigration status. We continue to see ongoing protests in Republican congressional districts like this one in Salisbury Township, in Lehigh County, Pennsylvan, Pennsylvania, where constituents of Republican Congressman Ryan Mackenzie are demanding, in this case, protesting outside his office, demanding that Congressman Mackenzie meet with his constituents, that he come back to his district and hold a town halt with them. So far, he is refusing to do so. And that dynamic is getting really interesting now as Democratic members of Congress and even Democratic candidates are starting to hold town halls in Republican districts because Republicans themselves are too scared to meet with their own constituents. And so Democrats are filling the gap. Democrats are holding constituent meetings for Republican districts, people who are represented by Republicans but can't get their Republican representatives to meet with them. And that dynamic. We've got more on that story coming up in just a moment. That's getting really interesting in terms of Democratic versus Republican politics. This was the scene today outside the headquarters of the U.S. department of Education as people protested against Trump's effort to dismantle and ultimately abolish the Department of Education. This protest today was this morning. You know, I think Republicans have convinced themselves that this is a winning issue closing the Department of Education, even though poll after poll shows that big majorities of the American public don't want the Department of Education to be abolished. Nevertheless, they apparently are going through with it. This protest in Washington again was this morning. This afternoon, the Education Department told its employees that they should not come to work tomorrow. And then thereafter, they publicly announced that they're going to try to fire basically half the people who work at the Education Department tomorrow. More than 1300 people they're going to try to fire out of their jobs at the Department of Education tomorrow. We're going to have more on that story in a moment. We'll be speaking with a civil rights lawyer at the Department of Education. She's also the president of the local union that represents people who work at the Education Department. With the attempted shuttering of the Education Department tomorrow, which again is a wildly unpopular idea with the American people, with Trump now going back again to the National Nuclear Security Administration for more cuts to that agency, more cuts to the people who keep our nuclear weapons from accidentally blowing up with the shambolic now just disastrous mishandling of this big measles epidemic in Texas by the vaccine conspiracy theorist who Trump put in as health secretary. As that measles epidemic now is over 250 cases and 2 deaths, with the increasingly bizarre news of the cuts that they're making to food safety, of all things, under the leadership of Donald Trump Jr. S hunting buddy, who Donald Trump thought was the best person to put in charge of food safety in this country. With all of these wildly unpopular things that they are doing every single day. Even before you get to the president turning the South Lawn of the White House into a used car lot today to try to sell cars for his top campaign donor with, I mean, with all of these just vile and unpopular and embarrassing things that they are doing, I think it's safe to say that more protesting against Donald Trump is probably to be expected. But, you know, I think even if the opposition to Trump keeps growing and spreading and deepening the way it has been, I'm not sure we're going to see a crowd like this anytime soon. This was the crowd that turned, look at this. This was the crowd that turned out in Mexico City day before yesterday on Sunday to cheer for the president of Mexico, who is experiencing a huge upsurge in popularity in her own country since Trump started attacking Mexico with this tariff stuff and she started stand up to him, it is making her way more politically powerful than anybody thought she could be at this moment as her country absolutely rallies in her patriotic defense. Similarly, the president of Ukraine is going through a huge boost in his own domestic popularity. His own popularity in Ukraine absolutely spiking as the people of Ukraine consolidate their support for him. In the wake of Donald Trump and J.D. vance embarrassing themselves by haranguing President Zelenskyy in the Oval Office today, there was a monumental, hugely important, just historic meeting of the military chiefs of what are now the most important countries in the West. It was a meeting basically of the army chiefs of the whole free world. Today we naturally were not invited. This is the lead from Reuters about that meeting today. Quote, more than 30 army chiefs among Washington's closest allies met in Paris today without their US counterparts, seeking to take on more responsibility over the Ukraine war given President Donald Trump's unpredictability and rapprochement with Moscow. The closed door gathering of 34 army chiefs, including NATO alliance and EU members, as well as Japan and Australia, was a rare and possibly unprecedented convenience. Meaning without the United States, the free world is still standing up for Ukraine. They are just doing it now without us. Today in Saudi Arabia, the Trump administration announced a plan for a ceasefire in Russia's war in Ukraine. Secretary of State Marco Rubio meeting for some reason in Saudi Arabia. I don't know. Secretary of State Marco Rubio said this plan is all good to go as far as he's concerned. He just has to go run it by Russia now. Now, you know, sit tight here for a second. I gotta go check with my manager. I'm sure it'll all be fine. Apparently, the way the Trump administration is running their deal by the big guy, running the, running the deal by the boss is that they're sending Donald Trump's real estate friend, Steve Witkoff to go meet personally in Russia with Vladimir Putin to get his okay to run the whole end the war plan by Putin. Steve's gonna do it. Steve's great, you know, I mean, Steve's a real estate guy, so I'm sure it's going to go great. I mean, if there's anybody who has consistently proven themselves to be really savvy, really on top of things, really unfoolable when it comes to the Russians, it's these New York real estate guys, right? Am I right? They're so savvy, they never get fooled. So I'm sure, I'm sure this will all be fine. They never get played. They're so savvy. Those Russians will never know what hit them. Nice tie. You like my tie? Das vadanya. I've got lots of news to get to tonight. Congressman Mark Pocan is here. We've got the latest on the news that they're going to try to close the Department of Education tomorrow. We've got lots to come. Stay with us. Nice tie.

[Rachel Maddow]

Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts new episodes of all your fav MSNBC shows Now, ad free + ad free listening to all of Rachel Maddow's original series Ultra Bagman. And Deja News and all MSNBC original podcasts are available ad free and with bonus content including why Is this Happening? Velshi Band Book Club and more. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

[Stuart Holm]

On the Embedded podcast no, it's called denying us freedom of speech.

[Mark Pocan]

It's misinformation.

[Stuart Holm]

Like so many Americans, my dad has gotten swept up in conspiracy theories. These are not conspiracy theories.

[Mark Pocan]

These are reality.

[Stuart Holm]

I spent the year following him down the rabbit hole trying to get him back. Listen to Alternate Realities on the embedded podcast from NPR. All episodes available now.

[Rachel Maddow]

The first 100 days bills are passed, executive orders are signed and presidencies are defined. And for dying in Donald Trump's first 100 days. Rachel Maddow is on MSNBC five nights a week.

[Stuart Holm]

Now is the time, so we're gonna.

[Rachel Maddow]

Do it, providing her unique insight and analysis during this critical time.

[Stuart Holm]

How do we strategically align ourselves to this moment of information, this moment of transition in our country?

[Rachel Maddow]

The Rachel Maddow show, weeknights at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC.

[Stuart Holm]

In politics, a long line of people usually means a long line of voters waiting to cast a ballot. But this long line, this is constituents who are actually waiting their turn to speak to one person. They're waiting their line, waiting in line to try to speak to their member of Congress, who is Republican Kevin Kiley. They are waiting in line in Congressman Kiley's office in Nevada City, California, so they can each one by one, ask him to please hold a town hall with them.

[Sharia Smith]

We haven't seen him in person. We have so many things, so many issues, of course, the economy, Social Security, the environment, veterans concerns, education, the Education Department, Department of education, the tariffs.

[Kevin Kiley]

ABC10 asked Kylie if he plans to have a town hall anytime soon. He says because his district is so large, teletown halls have been more convenient for him and his constituents. And that one is in the works.

[Stuart Holm]

So I think we have our next one scheduled pretty soon, within the next week or something like that. We'll do them once a month or something like that through the rest of this year.

[Kevin Kiley]

But Kylie's congressional website shows there are no scheduled upcoming teletown halls or in person meetings. ABC10 reached out to his office to get a comment regarding town hall meetings and a response to the criticism, but his spokesperson did not provide an update.

[Stuart Holm]

I'm sure we've got one scheduled. I'm sure it's don't look at my website. Can we schedule something? Don't schedule something with no official town hall on the schedule. The Local indivisible chapter plans to hold their own town hall for Congressman Kiley's constituents. They're gonna do that on March 20th. Perhaps Congressman Kiley will teleport in or something. Meanwhile, check out what's happening in New Jersey. For several weeks now, people in the congressional district represented by Republican Congressman Tom Kaine have been asking him to hold a town hall as well. So far, no joy, but somebody's gonna fill that vacuum. Now that the Democratic former congressman who used to hold that seat, who lost that seat to Tom Kaine in 2022, he says he's ready to go and he'll do it. Former Democratic Congressman Tom Malinowski has now announced that he will hold an in person town hall in his very competitive former district on Thursday night this week because the Republican who represents that district now is apparently too afraid to do it. Consider also what's going on in Wisconsin. Republican Congressman Derek Van Orden has been refusing to hold a town hall with his constituents as well this weekend. Democratic Congressman Mark Pocan, who represents a neighboring district, he stepped in to hold one this weekend essentially to take in the slack. Congressman Pocan arranged to hold the town hall that he had this weekend way over in the corner of his district, about as close as he could get to the neighboring Republican district that's represented by Derek Van Orden. He invited Congressman Van Orden to show up. The Congressman did not, but his constituents did. Karen and Mark Essex live in Van Orden's district and say that they're upset at the Representative for not being transparent with them. He doesn't do any town halls and very disappointed in that.

[Tom Malinowski]

He's not listening to us.

[Sharia Smith]

He's not representing us.

[Stuart Holm]

He didn't show up and he's unwilling to talk about the basic issues that we have. A local news station, wkow, wrote up the event like this, quote, in a town with just over 1,000 residents, hundreds of people packed the Village of Belmont's building Saturday. The building was filled to capacity with people even waiting outside and peeking through the windows to hear Congressman Mark Pocan. Congressman Pocan may have inspired more than a huge turnout in that corner of his district today. The Democrat who narrowly lost to Republican Congressman Derek Van Orton today, she announced that she's going to go up against him again this November. Rebecca Co is her name, as Congressman Mark Pocan put it this morning, quote, I think Derek Van Orden's morning just got bad. Joining us now is Congressman Mark Pocan, a Democrat of Wisconsin. Sir, it's nice to see you. Thanks for Making time to be here.

[Mark Pocan]

Well, thanks for the invite, Rachel.

[Stuart Holm]

Tell me about the decision process that you went through about holding this somewhat unusual town hall in a corner of your district that's definitely a more Republican leaning county, very close to the Republican represented district that's held by Congressman Derek Van Orden.

[Mark Pocan]

You know, the bare minimum you should do as a member of Congress is listen to your constituents. And Derek Van Orden, to best of my knowledge, has never done an open public town hall in the over two years he's been in office. So I just thought people should hear from a member of Congress, especially if you're about to cut their Medicaid and their food assistance and education funding and parts of the Affordable Care Act. So we organized one at the edge of my district, knowing that across about seven minutes away was a city of 10,000 people in his district. But Rachel, people from two hours away drove down from La Crosse and Tomah and Potosi and Platteville. People wanted to hear from a member of Congress. And if Derek Van Oren's not going to listen to his constituents, I felt at least I could lend an ear and make sure we're talking about what Derek's voting on. He's voting to cut Medicaid. That's one out of three kids in Wisconsin, 55% of seniors in nursing homes. It's some really bad stuff.

[Stuart Holm]

I read some local press accounts of what was discussed at the town hall that you held and what kinds of issues people were raising with you. A lot of people were focusing on fears about those potential Medicaid cuts, given how many people in Wisconsin use Medicaid as their health insurance. And that's kids, that's old people, that's everybody in between. What would you say emerged as the sort of themes that people were most concerned about and that would have talked to the Republican congressman about had he shown up.

[Mark Pocan]

Cuts for Medicaid was huge, right? That's healthcare. Long term care for people in Wisconsin, especially in rural parts of Wisconsin, like the third Congressional district that Derek Van Orden supposedly represents is also, I think people are really concerned about Veterans affairs, you know, in the VA hospital people, because so many people have been fired who are on probationary employment that when you call, you can't always get an appointment right now. And that's starting to affect the service of healthcare. But you know, one issue that wasn't even part of that Republican budget bill that really rose to the surface was Social Security. Rachel. You know, the reason it did is you got Elon Musk calling it a Ponzi scheme. You've got them cutting employees at Social Security, making it harder to get your benefits. But, you know, during the State of the Union, an awful lot of real estate was used by Donald Trump to repeat lies over and over and over again about people over 110 years old, up to 360 years old, supposedly getting Social Security when even by law they don't write a check to anyone over 115. And it's been disproven by two different inspector generals. Everything he said, well, that tells a lot of people what they're really after is Social Security. And I think the biggest set of questions we had on Saturday was about that.

[Stuart Holm]

Yeah, people are smart. They can say, oh, we're not going to touch it at all. We're only going to deal with the fraud. We're only going to. But people are smart. And when they realize that all the supposed fraud evidence is all lies, it just, it means their skirt is showing a little bit here. Democratic Congressman Mark Pocan of Wisconsin, thanks for talking to us about this and I'd love to stay in touch with you. I imagine this is going to be unsettling, settling for your neighbor in that Republican district. I'd love to hear how things proceed there.

[Mark Pocan]

Yeah, I might stop back and visit next week with him.

[Stuart Holm]

Indeed. Let us know. Let us know. All right, we got more news ahead tonight. Stay with us.

[Rachel Maddow]

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[Stuart Holm]

We're seeing a really radical effort to change the American system of government.

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[Stuart Holm]

I do think it's worth being very clear eyed, very realistic about what's going on here.

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[Stuart Holm]

There'S probably both messaging and policy issues, but as you look to kind of where the Democratic Party is, do you think it's more a messaging issue, more a policy issue?

[Rachel Maddow]

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[Stuart Holm]

Started with a sort of mysterious notice this afternoon, a reference to security concerns that went out to all employees at the U.S. department of Education. Quote, Beginning today at 6:00pm All Education Department offices will be closed for security reasons. Employees must vacate the building by that time. This notice also said all Education Department offices would be closed tomorrow and no employees would be allowed in. Now, this notice had no details about what these security reasons were, but it was pretty clear what was coming. After all, we've been through this a couple of times already now. It was just over a month ago when people who work at USAID got an email saying their office would be closed the next day and they shouldn't come to work. That was right before Trump set about completely dismantling that whole agency. Employees at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, same thing, sent a very similar note saying their office would be shut for the following week, just as the White House ordered the entire agency to stop all of its work. And sure enough, tonight, just after the 6pm deadline for education Department workers to vacate their offices because of some security concern, Trump Education Secretary the billionaire pro wrestling executive Linda McMahon announced that her department is cutting its workforce in half. They will begin firing more than 1,300 people from the Education Department tonight. And then, of course, she went straight to Fox News.

[Tom Malinowski]

That was the president's mandate. His directive to me clearly is to shut down the Department of Education, which we know we'll have to work with Congress, you know, to get that accomplished. But what we did today was to take the first step of eliminating what I think is bureaucratic bloat. And that's not to say that a lot of the folks, you know, it's a humanitarian thing to a lot of the folks that are there, you know, they're out of a job. But we wanted to make sure that we kept all of the right people and the good people.

[Stuart Holm]

You know, if you find yourself starting to feel a little tug on your heartstrings for those 1,300 people who are out of a job tonight at the Education Department, don't worry, we kept all the good people. We kept all the good people. The 1300 people who are getting fired tonight. They just aren't. They're not. They're not Good. Good. They're not good. Who is this for? The vast majority of the American people do not want this. A poll earlier this month, Reuters Ipsos earlier this month found that fully 66% of Americans oppose abolishing the Education Department. Nearly half of Americans strongly oppose it, while only 16% are strongly in favor of it. This is not something Americans want, but Donald Trump is trying to do it anyway, apparently starting with firing fully half the the people who work at that agency tonight. One of those people fired tonight. A union leader at the Education Department joins us live here next. Stay with us. This is from NPR on the Trump administration's announcement tonight that they're firing 1,300 people from the U.S. department of Education. Quote, AFGE, American Federation of Government Employees Local 252, a union that represents Education Department employees, released a statement in which its president, Sharia Smith, said, we will fight the these draconian cuts. Minutes later, AFGE Local 252 told NPR that Sharia Smith was laid off, along with all five of the chapter's other union officers. Joining us now is Sharia Smith. She's president of the union, representing 2,800 employees at the Education Department. She served our country as an attorney for the Education Department's office, Office for Civil Rights until this evening. Ms. Smith, thank you so much for being here on tonight of all nights. I am sorry for what you're going to.

[Sharia Smith]

Thank you so much, Rachel. My co workers and I from all over the country really appreciate the platform you're giving us to talk about this.

[Stuart Holm]

Is it the case that your whole office is being closed and your colleagues, all of your colleagues at your office are being fired as well? The whole thing.

[Sharia Smith]

You know, that's so interesting that you asked the question about our whole office. So we've reviewed the list of people who are set to be laid off. And I also listened to Secretary McMahon's statement about how they're keeping the good people, the people that they, what they seem to be keeping are white men who happen to have graduated from very conservative schools. Not to say that they're not good. I think all of my coworkers are excellent. Many of them are members. But the coworkers that are being laid off as well are also good. What is curious in the U.S. department of Education is that the layoffs, the mass terminations, the, the administrative leaves are seeming to affect and impact disproportionately women and people of color. And the Department of Education should be a model employer. And I want American people to think about do they want their employer to follow this model where the only people that they are that are deemed good enough to keep their jobs and their ability to support their families are people who are from a certain race and are of a certain gender?

[Stuart Holm]

I know that this has all just happened in the last few hours, but with what they've been telegraphing about their plans for the Education Department, I know that you and your union colleagues and your colleagues at work more broadly have to have been expecting the worst. Do you believe that your union or that the employees more broadly have recourse to fight these firings and have recourse to fight their efforts to abolish the department?

[Sharia Smith]

Well, absolutely, because their efforts are illegal. Again, since the new administration came into office, we have experienced mass terminations and unchecked unprofessionalism and people just not going by the rules? Even this layoff is not something that should have occurred. The layoff was not because of a budget shortfall. The president can't just lay people off because he does not agree with them or he does not like the color of their skin or their gender. So certainly we are availing ourselves of all recourse to challenge this and talking with attorneys, and we have been since the first round of layoffs on January 21st. And so we'll be fighting, and we hope the American people will fight with us.

[Stuart Holm]

You know, Linda McMahon, in explaining what she's doing here, has also said that the American people should expect that there will be no interruption to any of the programs that the Education Department administers. I have to ask you if that is possible with what they're even just what they're planning tonight with half the workforce gone overnight, absolutely not possible.

[Sharia Smith]

Since January 21, our entire agency has been interrupted. We've been told not to work. We've had people who have been forced from working. Even though there have been high performers, there's no way we were already understaffed. There is no way we can continue operations at the levels that we had been. When you have half the workforce and you have fired great people, you have fired high performers. There's no way. If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

[Stuart Holm]

Sharia Smith is the president of the AFGE union that represents Education Department employees. She's an attorney for the Education Department's Office for Civil Rights Rights. She was fired this evening, but as she says, she believes that she and her colleagues have absolute recourse to fight back against these firings as illegal. Ms. Smith, again, I am sorry for what you and your colleagues are going through tonight. Thank you for taking the time to talk us through it. And please stay in touch with us as this proceeds. I know this won't be the last we'll be hearing from you.

[Sharia Smith]

Thank you, Rachel.

[Stuart Holm]

All right. Good luck to you. We'll be right back. All right. Thanks for being here with us tonight. I will see you again tomorrow and every night this week at 9:00 Eastern. In the meantime, you can find me on Blue Sky. I don't know if you have Blue sky yet, but I'm there and I like it. I think you should try it. I'm on [e-mail] I had complained previously about the fact that if you wanted to post a video clip on Blue sky, you could only post up to 1 minute minute because that was the restriction they had. You can now post up to three minutes, which makes it way more useful for circulating news clips and stuff that's happening in the news that you want people to see in a journalistic capacity. So I'm very grateful to Bluesky for upping that time limit to three minutes. It makes it even more useful for reading the news. Thanks.

[Rachel Maddow]

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