Trump gets reckless as his agenda tanks with the American public

Summary

Summary of "The Rachel Maddow Show" Episode: "Trump Gets Reckless as His Agenda Tanks with the American Public"

Release Date: April 26, 2025 | Host: Rachel Maddow | Network: MSNBC

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1. Introduction

In the April 26, 2025 episode of "The Rachel Maddow Show," host Rachel Maddow delves deep into the tumultuous first hundred days of President Donald Trump's administration. As Trump's public approval plummets, Maddow explores how his administration's increasingly reckless actions are further alienating the American public. The episode is structured around key themes, including public opinion polling, Trump’s provocative maneuvers against judicial independence, and the administration’s controversial immigration policies.

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2. Public Opinion Deteriorates Sharply

Maddow opens the episode by addressing the overwhelmingly negative public sentiment toward President Trump.

• Brutally Low Approval Ratings:
  • Pew Poll: Trump's overall approval rating is down by 19 points.
  • Fox News Poll: A significant margin—22 points—indicates that Trump's policies are perceived to be harming the U.S. economy.
  • Economist YouGov Poll: There's a 24.4-point margin against Trump’s actions affecting the entire United States.

Maddow emphasizes the comprehensive nature of this disapproval, citing various polls showing American voters' distrust in Trump's management of multiple aspects of governance.

Notable Quote:

"We're pretty close to something that looks like a national consensus view in this country. And the view is no." ([05:30])

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3. Trump’s Authoritarian Escalations: Arresting a Judge

As Trump's approval wanes, Maddow highlights his administration's alarming actions against judicial figures, signaling a potential descent into authoritarianism.

• Arrest of Judge Hannah Dugan:
  • On April 24, Immigration agents arrested Judge Hannah Dugan in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Despite her case being dismissed and no evidence of wrongdoing, agents detained her without presenting a warrant.
  • Visual Evidence: Maddow references video footage showing agents accelerating into the courthouse and detaining the judge abruptly.

Notable Quote:

"Show us a warrant signed by a judge. You don't have a warrant, sir." ([22:23])

• Implications:
  • This act undermines judicial independence and intimidates judges from ruling against the administration.
  • Public backlash has been swift, with immediate protests erupting outside federal courthouses.

Notable Quote:

"The man was just flipping the table over, just pulling the pin on the grenade and rolling it into the room." ([17:45])

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4. Interview with Congressman Jamie Raskin

Maddow interviews Congressman Jamie Raskin, the top Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, to discuss the ramifications of Trump's recent actions.

Key Points from Raskin:

• Assault on Judicial Independence:

  • "They have been disobeying federal court orders systematically. They have incurred criminal contempt findings..." ([27:20])

• Historical Context:

  • Highlighting that only 15 federal judges have ever been impeached, never for ruling against administration policies, underscoring the unprecedented nature of the current attacks.

• Call to Action:

  • Emphasizes the need for public outrage and legislative action to defend the judiciary.
  • "We must defend them against that, and we've got to defend them against impeachment." ([30:27])

Notable Quote from Raskin:

"The country is rediscovering the two most beautiful words in the English language, due process." ([32:24])

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5. Escalation of Immigration Policies: Deportation of US Citizen Families

The episode shifts focus to the Trump administration's aggressive immigration tactics, including the deportation of families containing U.S. citizen children.

• Breaking News:
  • The ACLU reports that ICE deported at least two families, including minor children who are U.S. citizens and one pregnant mother.
  • In one case, a 2-year-old child with metastatic cancer was deported without necessary medical care, despite prior notifications of urgent health needs.

Notable Quote:

"US Citizens are being deported, which we know is illegal and which we know is also just inhumane." ([42:23])

• Impact:
  • These actions bypass due process, igniting public outrage and prompting calls for immediate legislative and judicial intervention.

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6. Campaign Against Complicit Law Firms: "Big Law Cowards"

Maddow discusses the emerging campaign against major law firms accused of supporting Trump's administration through lucrative deals and preferential treatment.

• Demand Justice Group:

  • Launched the "Big Law Cowards" campaign targeting nine prominent law firms that provided free legal services to Trump-selected causes.
  • Actions include placing billboard advertisements and street signs near these firms' offices, highlighting their financial contributions to the Trump administration.

• Objective:

  • To shame these firms into withdrawing their support and to pressure them into defending the rule of law rather than capitulating to political pressures.

Notable Quote:

"If you made one of these deals, you can cancel it. You don't have to stick to it." ([44:56])

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7. Conclusion and Future Outlook

Rachel Maddow concludes the episode by reinforcing the critical juncture at which the United States finds itself. With public opinion turning vehemently against Trump and his administration's actions increasingly undemocratic, the path forward hinges on robust legal challenges and sustained public activism. She underscores the importance of defending institutional checks and balances to prevent the erosion of democratic norms.

Final Notable Quote:

"The American public is resoundingly saying no to all of it. And they're saying no in the polls and they are saying no in the streets and that in the end with the courts, that's going to be the only thing that matters." ([20:15])

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Key Takeaways:

• Public Opinion: Donald Trump's presidency is facing unprecedented disapproval, with significant majority opposition across multiple policy areas.

• Judicial Independence Under Threat: The administration's actions against judges like Hannah Dugan signify a dangerous erosion of the judiciary's autonomy and integrity.

• Aggressive Immigration Enforcement: The deportation of families with U.S. citizen children underscores the administration's ruthless approach, bypassing legal protections and due process.

• Accountability of Legal Entities: The "Big Law Cowards" campaign aims to hold law firms accountable for their complicity in supporting potentially unlawful administration policies.

• Call to Action: Maintaining and strengthening democratic institutions requires active public engagement, legal interventions, and unwavering defense of constitutional principles.

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This episode of "The Rachel Maddow Show" serves as a comprehensive examination of the Trump administration's faltering relationship with the American public and the consequential drift towards authoritarian practices. Through in-depth analysis, interviews, and compelling evidence, Maddow highlights the urgent need for democratic safeguards to preserve the nation's foundational values.

Transcript

[Rachel Maddow]

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Your next great hire is here. Really happy to have you here. Happy Friday. So correlation is not causation. Just because things happen together doesn't necessarily mean that one of those things caused the other one to happen. Still, though, it's hard not to think that these things happening right now in the news might not have something to do with one another. Here's the first thing. It's about public opinion. We started last night's show with a look at public opinion concerning this president and this presidency as he approaches the end of his crucial first hundred days in office. And as we discussed on last night's show, the numbers for him are brutally bad. In the Pew poll, President Donald Trump is underwater in his Overall approval rating by 19 points. In the Fox News poll, people are asked if Trump's policies are helping or hurting the US economy. They say Trump's policies are hurting the US economy by a margin of 22 points. In the Economist YouGov poll, they asked if Trump is generally helping or hurting not just the economy, but the whole United States. Since Trump has been back in office, have his actions as president helped the United States or hurt the United States? The American people say Trump has hurt the United States and they say it by a 24.4point margin. So we covered some of that yesterday. Now today banner headline all day long at the New York Times, quote, Voters sour on Trump in New New York Times Sienna Poll. And then you get that full headline. Voters see Trump's use of power as overreaching. And then it's just a litany of all the things Trump has been trying to do and how much the American public hates all of it, do you support or oppose Trump withholding funds from universities? Oppose. By a 25 point margin, should Trump be allowed to impose tariffs without authorization from Congress? No. By a 33 point margin, should Trump be allowed to eliminate programs enacted by Congress? No. By a 33 point margin, should Trump be allowed to deport legal immigrants for protesting against Israel? No. By a 46 point margin, should Trump be allowed to send US citizens to that prison in El Salvador like he's been threatening to? No, he should not be allowed to do that. By a 63 point margin, should Trump be allowed to ignore an order from the United States Supreme Court? No. By a 70 point margin, when you are losing polling questions about stuff you've said you might want to do or stuff you're trying to do when you're losing polling questions like that by 40, 60, 70 point margins, we're pretty close to something that looks like a national consensus view in this country. And the view is no. No to what Donald Trump is doing. Do you approve of how Trump is managing the government? No. Do you approve of how Trump is managing trade? No. Do you approve of Donald Trump's executive orders rolling back DEI programs in the federal government? No. Do you approve of Donald Trump on the economy? No. Do you approve of Donald Trump and his handling of the Russia Ukraine war? Nop. Do you approve of Donald Trump's handling of immigration? No. Do you approve of Donald Trump's treatment of the Kilmar Abrego Garcia case? No. By a 21 point margin? No. But, I mean, credit the New York Times and their editors for actually, I think, really getting right. The big takeaway from this poll in all of its detail, the big takeaway really is what they put in the headline. Voters see Trump's use of power as overreaching. And they can say that credibly in this poll because they asked about it. I mean, outright majorities of the country say that Trump has gone too far on tariffs, too far on his cuts to the federal workforce, too far on immigration enforcement, too far on his overall changes to the political and economic system. Too far. Outright majorities of the country say he's gone too far on all of those things. And it's not just that New York Times poll that's out today. There's also a new AP national poll that's out today which puts Trump -24 on the economy. Whoa. There's a new Washington Post ABC Ipsos poll that's out Today, their headline, trump's Immigration Ratings Turn Negative. He's always been able to count on people being with him on nasty things he says about immigrants. Not anymore. People are not with him on immigration anymore. The thing he can always count on having a positive approval rating on, not anymore. So it's all bad for Trump in terms of the public just soundly rejecting everything he's doing, even the stuff that he says, just for political effect. It's having the opposite political effect that he intends. I don't know that we have ever seen another first hundred days from any president this roundly rejected and hated by the American people. As I said, correlation is not causation. Things happening together doesn't necessarily mean that one of those things caused the other one to happen. But on the day we've got on the front page of the New York Times, voters sour on Trump. Americans think Trump is overreaching in his use of power. On the day that is the news on Donald Trump, what does Trump do? He arrests a judge. He arrests a judge. And we're going to talk with Congressman Jamie Raskin about this in just a moment. But if you want to talk about a portrait of desperation, show me the political leader who is just flipping the table over, just pulling the pin on the grenade and rolling it into the room. Show me the elected leader who has decided to start arresting judges to see what happens. And we're going to talk in just a moment about what happened already in response to Trump doing that today and where this is headed. We're going to talk with Congressman Raskin about that in just a moment. You're going to want to see what the instant emergency reaction was when it was announced this morning that Trump had arrested a judge. You're going to want to see this. But it is not weird for there to be a correlative, if not causative connection between a politician's deep and evident weakness, his profound unpopularity with the American people, and that same politician showing a new willingness to do the craziest stuff imaginable. Right. I mean, it's not just a Trump phenomenon. This is a political science thing. You know, if people like you and they like what you're doing, you'll do more things that they will like. You will try to hold on to the support that you've got. You will try to build on that support. You will try to keep the people on your side. If, on the other hand, your approval rating is, I don't know, negative 19 in the pew poll and getting worse, and every successive poll and you've got, I don't know, 70 point margins against you on the stuff you're saying you want to do. Well, then what do you do? It's not like you got anything to build on. People hate everything you're doing. So what do you do? You just do something crazy. You do something wild and reckless to change this stuff up, to change the conversation, just to blow things up, just to make things different. You arrest a judge or something. This was two days ago in Storrs, Connecticut, on the campus of the University of Connecticut, home of the Yukon Huskies. Students protesting about Trump targeting immigrants and international students and revoking student visas. This was yesterday at UNLV in Las Vegas. Students protesting at UNLV about Trump targeting students, targeting immigrants there, too. This was a big one. This was Syracuse University, a big protest. Look at this. Against Trump going after immigrants, going after student visas. And I see this is all just within the last couple of days. And you know, we have been covering these kinds of protests against Trump's arrests of students, his attacks on students, for weeks and weeks now. I mean, we've just got reams and reams of this kind of footage left to right, top to bottom here. This is just an unrepresentative sample. This is New York. Columbia University, that's in the top center, that's Newark, Delaware. The University of Delaware on the upper right, that's Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Bottom row, that's Cobb County, Georgia, Kennesaw State center. In the bottom there, that's Bloomington, Indiana. Indiana University. Lower right there, that's Tempe, Arizona, that's asu. Arizona State colleges and the communities around them have been protesting in one way or another every single fricking day about these kids being snatched off the street, snatched off campus by Trump' agents. Students being thrown out of the country in many cases for no apparent reason at all. Are you one of the people who has participated in one of those protests? Have you driven past one of those protests and given them a honk and a thumbs up? Have you done anything to publicize the cases of those kids, posted about it on social media, wrote letters to the editor, called into call in shows, called your member of Congress about it, put up a sign in the window? Have you done anything to bring attention to this, to show or say that you objected to what Trump was doing in arresting all these students and jailing them or throwing them out of the country? Have you done any of those things? If so, today is your day. Trump administration reverses course on student visa cancellations International students who lost their immigration status will have it restored. Government says Trump is reversing the termination of legal status for international students around the US People have been protesting about it instantly and everywhere and every day. People have been speaking out about it, making the case, calling on the conscience of the American people, which is what nonviolent protest is all about. The polling now shows in poll after poll after poll that the American public is absolutely and totally and by huge margins against what Trump has been doing to these students. And that that pushback, that fight has been not only popular, it has been ferocious. ACLU of West Virginia sues over West Virginia university students revoked visa UI University of Iowa students sue Department of homeland security and ICE 17 international students in Georgia accuse ICE of violating due process New Haven residents sue Trump administration over revoked student visas Rutgers International students sue feds over revoked status UW Madison International students file lawsuit University University of Texas Rio Grande Valley students sue Homeland security ACLU of Connecticut sues trump administration over 60 plus student visas being revoked. Three international students in Colorado sue Trump administration over termination of immigration status. Gannon University students in Pennsylvania suing the federal government. Purdue students suing federal government over visa revocations. UC Berkeley international student sues Trump over Sues Trump administration over revoked visa There are literally dozens and dozens and dozens of these. I could go on. And those individual cases are all separate and apart from the really big cases involving multiple students, multiple jurisdictions. The big case filed a week ago today in federal court in New Hampshire, class action on behalf of all the foreign students whose visas have been yanked by Trump. That big case filed by 19 Democratic state attorneys general to stop it nationwide. That one take no prisoners lawyer in Georgia, the former president of the American Immigration Lawyers association, whose case started with 17 students in Georgia, then he added more than 100 more. That lawyer telling CNN, I can file 133 lawsuits, but I think the court wouldn't be happy about that. So we are filing one, one big one. Well, all of those efforts effectively have now been victorious because Trump stopped. He had to stop wholesale attacking these thousands of students for the terrible crime of going to college in the United States. The Trump administration also today had to reverse itself on killing the crime victims hotline at the U.S. justice Department. Why did you kill that? They've now had to put it back. The Trump administration now having to reverse itself on killing all translations of weather forecasts and weather emergency statements. Because heaven forbid somebody who doesn't speak English might also receive the tornado warning. They've now had to reverse themselves and reinstate those translations. The Trump administration has now had to reverse itself and restore the funding Trump had cut for the largest and most important decades long study of women's health, credited with saving countless women's lives, changing women's health globally, and saving billions of dollars in the American health system. It is a study that started in the 90s. It has enrolled over 160,000American women. It is one of the most successful long term medical studies in the history of science. And Trump just killed it, cut it off midstream with no warning. And now they have had to reverse that. Now the Trump administration has had to reverse itself on its not at all terrifying plan to create a national government registry of autistic people under the authority of Trump. HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Who of course talks about autistic people as if they are not even human. And now he's going to create a universal registry of everyone with an autism diagnosis in the United States. Are you kidding me? That was his plan. Now he's had to reverse himself on that as well. Today, the Trump administration has had to reverse itself on cutting food safety scientists at the fda. Trump's new hand picked FDA commissioner actually went on CNN this week and denied that those scientists had been fired. He said, quote, I can tell you, there were no cuts to scientists or inspectors. There absolutely were firings of scientists and inspectors cut from food and drug safety labs all across the country, including, I should mention, from the veterinary division of FDA where they were working on was the bird flu. He didn't even know. They haven't been cut. Now they've quietly started reinstating all those scientists and inspectors that they actually did cut, but they didn't want to admit it, let alone defend it. And so now they've had to reverse it. All of those reversals within the last day. I mean, listen, it's Friday. I'm sorry, I run out of things to give by the time we get to Friday. Sometimes I'm a little more blunt on Fridays than I am other days. I'm sorry, it's exhaustion. But listen, it's not like we didn't know it was going to be terrible, right? This week, after all, it's the five year anniversary of Trump in his first term telling the country that maybe we should all inject bleach or disinfectants into our bodies because sure, that would probably take care of COVID right? Do you remember Lysol had to put out a disclaimer saying please do not actually inject, disinfectant into your body. My God. We realized the president just said to do that, but please do not. That was five years ago. This week. We've had time to settle into what it's like to have Donald Trump in a position of power. Right. So it's not like we didn't know it was going to be terrible. And it is terrible. He really did have a judge arrested today. And we will have more on that in a moment. That wasn't all. I mean, today we learned that Trump is killing off the federal funding for Narcan. Narcan, the anti overdose miracle that has literally saved hundreds of millions of American lives in the last few years. There are hundreds, excuse me, hundreds of thousands of Americans who are alive today who would not be alive without Narcan. It is a miracle that saves people from overdose. And Trump in his first term bragged and bragged and bragged about how much his administration supported Narcan and how much they'd done to make sure everywhere in the country could get Narcan. Now he's killing it off and killing off programs to combat opioid addiction. At the same time, Trump really is completely zeroing out, completely eliminating Head Start everywhere in the country because God forbid American kids can go to preschool, because that's a terrible thing. Complete termination of that 60 year old program. Trump really is killing off Meals on Wheels because heaven forbid old people and disabled people and people with mobility problems get meals delivered to them and somebody to check in on them. They're getting rid of the agency that runs that. Trump has already fired half the staff from that agency. And Trump has closed all 10 of the regional offices that oversee Meals on Wheels because Donald Trump is against Meals on Wheels for some reason. This was two days ago in Morgantown, West Virginia. People out protesting against Trump firing nearly everyone. 85% of people at NIOSH, the occupational safety and health agency that oversees coal mines. People out in West Virginia protesting that two days ago, Trump has cut the Mine Health and Safety Administration and the agencies that serve coal miners. And West Virginia is up in arms about it. We knew it was going to be bad, and it is bad. But the American people, God bless them. God bless us. The American people is under no illusions about it. And the American people is very broadly and now very consistently and very, very affirmatively against what Trump is doing. Even the stuff that he thinks you'll like that he says for political effect. The American public is resoundingly saying no to all of it. And they're saying no in the polls and they are saying no in the streets and that in the end with the courts, that's going to be the only thing that matters. He's not even 100 days in and we are in desperation mode from him already arresting a judge today. Are you kidding me? That is a sign of weakness, not strength. It is the public that is being strong here and he cannot handle it. Jamie Raskin joins us next. Serve up mealtime excitement for your dog with veterinarian recommended Wellness Core plus dry dog food made with high quality kibble and real cuts of freeze dried protein. Wellness Core plus is proven to support the five signs of well being. High protein nutrition for peak vitality, irresistible taste for empty bowls and tail wags. It's love at first drool with Wellness Core plus dry dog food. Feed well, be well. Please leave a message. Hey, it's me. Well, it's you San Diego. You that is. Ugh. I'm here at the beach. Sun's out, everything's looking up. 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[Jamie Raskin]

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[Rachel Maddow]

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[Rachel Maddow]

So the man was at the county courthouse in Charlottesville, Virginia this week. Charges against him had just been dismissed. A judge had just ruled there was no evidence the man had committed any crime. The man, he's a house painter. He was told that he was free to leave the courthouse and then this. Show us a warrant signed by a judge. You don't have a warrant, sir. Show us a warrant for his arrest. We are Homeland Security. You don't have a warrant signed by a judge. So what is going on here? Is that the, that that Trump's immigrations here. Excuse me, that Trump's immigration agents here are arresting this man at this courthouse in Virginia. This video was obtained by the venerable newspaper in Charlottesville, the Daily Progress. And again, there are no criminal charges pending against this man. The case against him had just been dismissed. He had shown up at the county courthouse as required and Trump's immigration agents took that Opportunity to grab him. The agents who arrested him were not wearing uniforms. One of them was wearing a mask. The lawyer who represented the man they arrested, the lawyer says the agents did not show any form of id. They did not present an arrest warrant. They did have handcuffs, though, and they handcuffed this guy and put him in the back of an unmarked van. To everybody who saw what was happening, it looked very much like a kidnapping. And that was actually one of two arrests made by plainclothes, masked immigration agents at that same county courthouse in Virginia this week. The lawyer telling the Daily Progress, quote, it's horrifying for the person being detained this way. It's horrifying for the community members watching it. And you saw that right away, people came out and protested outside the county courthouse in Charlottesville right after immigration agents showed up there to start taking people. This is just an instant pressure point for this community. It was pretty big turnout, too. Masks plus no ID equals abduction. I mean, it makes sense in terms of how quickly people were willing to literally take to the streets over this. Right? Everybody needs to be able to go to court. No matter what your immigration status is. Maybe you're the victim of a crime, maybe you have a witness in an important case, maybe you're a defendant. If people are too scared to come to court now because Trump's immigration agents are lying in wait at court to arrest them, then courts will not be able to function fairly or effectively for anyone. Judges are responsible for the safety of everybody who appears before the court for any reason. Right? For the safety and security of those people so they can do their lawful business before the court. If Trump's immigration agents are staking out courthouses to. To grab people, to kidnap people once they show up, to take part in a lawful court proceeding that stops judges from fulfilling their responsibilities under the law for what happens with their cases and in their courtrooms. Now, this was also a point of tension in Trump's first term. In Trump's first term, he also sent immigration agents to go to try to arrest people at their court appearances. And it was a flashpoint then. State judges have a duty to ensure the safety of the people who appear before them in court, whether as plaintiffs, defendants, or witnesses. Well, today, a whole new level. Today, the FBI arrested a county judge in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. According to the FBI, this judge knew that Trump's immigration agents were outside her courtroom waiting to arrest a man who was before her court. They say she sent the immigration agents away from her hearing room and then escorted the man and his lawyer out of the courtroom through a private exit. It for that, the Trump administration has arrested her and charged her with two felonies. She herself arrested, brought before a federal court, and then released today on her own recognizance. Her attorney says that the judge intends to defend herself vigorously. He says she looks forward to being exonerated. But if this feels like a insane and reckless escalation from the Trump administration, arresting a judge, I will tell you, you are not alone. It sure felt like that to lots of people in Wisconsin today, people who showed up outside the federal courthouse in Milwaukee after the judge was arrested. More than 100 people out there today on no notice, on a Friday, in the middle of the day to emergency, spontaneously show up and protest the arrest of this judge in Milwaukee. Just instant reaction to this bright new line that's been crossed by Trump. It's being treated as a crisis by members of Congress, too. This was Maryland Congressman Jamie Raskin today. He said every American should be deeply troubled by this massive escalation. This is an unmistakable descent further into authoritarian chaos. Joining us now is Congressman Raskin of Maryland. He's the top Democrat on the Judiciary Committee. Sir, thank you so much for being here. I know it's a really busy time.

[Robert Garcia]

Delighted to be with you.

[Rachel Maddow]

Rachel, let me ask you if any of the way that I explained that sort of seems the wrong way around to you, or if it seems like I'm putting the emphasis in the wrong place. It seems to me that Trump having a judge arrested is a reckless and desperate move. It seems to me like, yes, there are connections to previous flashpoints and tensions that Trump has raised in even his first term by trying to put federal immigration agents into state courts. But to me, this mostly just seems crazy.

[Robert Garcia]

Well, I regard it very much within the prism of what we've been dealing with over the last month, which is an intense assault on judicial independence. They have been disobeying federal court orders systematically. They have incurred criminal contempt findings in the courtroom of Judge Boasberg, a conservative Republican judge. They have been demanding the impeachment of judges who rule against the lawlessness of the Trump administration. There are now more than 90 preliminary injunctions and temporary restraining orders against the chaos that's been unleashed on the country by the Trump administration. And now they're arresting judges. And the first felony criminal charge brought against Judge Hannah Dugan in Wisconsin is interfering with a legal proceeding, which is essentially what they've been doing all along, what Judge Boasberg is about to hold them in criminal contempt for, and has found that There is probable cause for criminal contempt is that they deliberately ignored and defied his order not to take off in those airplanes headed for El Salvador and not turning the airplanes around. So on the logic of this arrest of Judge Dugan, all of the people in the Trump administration who participated in defying that order by Judge Boasberg themselves could be arrested for interfering with a legal proceeding and perhaps other criminal charges, like kidnapping. As you were suggesting before.

[Rachel Maddow]

You have said that the independence of the judiciary has to be defended. You said we must do whatever we can to defend the independent judiciary in America. Obviously, there's this individual case of this judge. There's also potentially the intimidation factor towards all judges. Right. That this has an effect on trying to scare and intimidate judges into not ruling against Trump or otherwise acceding to Trump and the Trump administration's demands. When you say we must do whatever we can to defend the independent judiciary in America, what do you think that we should do? We've seen people instantly and spontaneously react by going to the courthouses, by going to the streets to protest. Do you think that matters and what else do you think could?

[Robert Garcia]

Well, absolutely. I mean, everybody who aspires and attains to public office in America, regardless of which branch they're in, is just a servant of the people. And the people need to manifest their outrage about these assaults on judicial independence. The first branch of government, the legislative branch, Congress must do the same thing. We must reject all of these attacks on individual judges, some of which have led online to violent threats and death threats. There was a bomb threat made against Justice Amy Coney, Barrett's sister, and there have been lots of threats made against judges. But we've got to defend them against that, and we've got to defend them against impeachment. There have only been 15 federal judges impeached in our entire history, always for corruption charges like bribery or tax evasion, never because somebody in government disagrees with the content of their opinion. As Chief Justice Roberts said just a few weeks ago, the proper response to disagreement with district court's opinion is to appeal the opinion, not to impeach the judge. So there's this constant vilification and demonizing of the judges that we've got to turn around. And obviously, arresting a county court judge in Wisconsin is a dramatic escalation of these tactics.

[Rachel Maddow]

A dramatic escalation, and one, I think, that will escalate the kind of response that they get as well. I think that it was a shock to the system. I think when people saw those headlines today, that's why people got out in the streets. I mentioned that people went out and protested in Milton, Milwaukee, outside the courthouse today. People went out to other federal buildings and other federal courthouses, including Minneapolis today to protest. I'm not sure that they recognize they've bitten off more than they can chew here, but we shall see. Congressman Jamie Raskin, Democrat of Maryland. Yeah, sorry, go ahead, sir.

[Robert Garcia]

I was just going to say the country is rediscovering the two most beautiful words in the English language, due process, because that's what separates us from being a free society with real rights from becoming a dictatorship.

[Rachel Maddow]

Congressman Jamie Raskin, it's good to have you here, sir. Thank you so much for your time. All right. We've got more news ahead here this very busy Friday night. Stay with us. Hey, everybody, it's Rob Lowe here. If you haven't heard, I have a podcast that's called Literally with Rob Lowe. And basically it's conversations I've had that really make you feel like you're pulling up a chair at an intimate dinner between myself and people that I admire like Aaron Sorkin or Tiffany Haddish, Demi Moore, Chris Pratt, Michael J. Fox. There are new episodes out every Thursday. So subscribe, please, and listen wherever you get your podcasts. The last thing you want to hear when you need your auto insurance most is a robot with countless irrelevant menu options. Which is why with USA Auto insurance.

[Jamie Raskin]

You'Ll get great service that is easy and reliable, all at the touch of a button.

[Rachel Maddow]

Get a quote today. Restrictions apply anywhere else. Tuesday is just, well, Tuesday. But if you're at KFC, Tuesday is $10 Tuesday, which means you can get eight hot, juicy drums and thighs for just 10 bucks. Let me say that again. Eight pieces of hot, juicy original recipe chicken hand breaded in 11 herbs, herbs and spices, all for just 10 bucks every Tuesday. Only at KFC. Guess Tuesday isn't just Tuesday anymore. It's finger licking.

[Jamie Raskin]

Good prices and participation may vary.

[Rachel Maddow]

Tax tips and fees extra. All of the detainees we spoke to indicated that it is very cold, that they aren't allowed to have blankets. The temperature is very uncomfortable for them. Many of the women in the facility indicated that they were not given proper feminine products as regularly as needed. In some cases, not even given toilet paper. That is absolutely unacceptable. They share with us that they are frightened. That's Congressman Troy Carter of Louisiana speaking on this program earlier this week after he he visited two immigration prisons in his home state. Some of his congressional colleagues who were with him for those visits have an op ed today in The New York Times about what they saw at those immigration prisons and what the people Trump is holding in those facilities are going through. And they're just some of the Democratic legislators, Democratic members of Congress who have been bodily, physically showing up to places where the Trump administration has been locking up immigrants both here and abroad. Vermont US Senator Peter Welch went to the prison in Vermont where they have locked up Columbia University student Mohsen Madawi. He is a legal permanent resident who Trumps agents arrested at his citizenship interview. Florida Congresswoman Frederica Wilson visited prisoners at an immigration prison in her state yesterday, the Chrome facility in Miami. She told reporters afterwards, quote, these are people who are our family, our next door neighbors, our friends and our co workers. Why are they doing this? She said, what is the point? Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, of course, traveled to El Salvador and pressed and pressed and finally managed to meet with his imprisoned constituent, Kilmar Abrego Garcia, who the Trump administration admits it sent to El Salvador by mistake. A group of four members of the House, Democratic members of Congress followed Van Hollen. Shortly thereafter, they also went to El Salvador. They were not allowed to see Mr. Abrek. They were also seeking information on another prisoner they were concerned about. We have covered on this show the case of Andre Hernandez Romero is a 31 year old makeup artist who says he fled Venezuela because he feared persecution as a gay man. He was pursuing asylum in what he thought would be the safety of the United States. But the Trump administration arrested him and sent him to a prison in El Salvador potentially for the rest of his life, life, claiming that he, this guy is a member of a violent Venezuelan gang. The members of Congress who went to El Salvador tried to find out anything they could about Mr. Hernandez Romero. This is from Michelle Goldberg today writing at the New York Times. She says, quote, this week, four members of four Democratic members of Congress went to El Salvador to try to see Abrego Garcia. While they were there, they sought proof of life for Andre Hernandez Romero. They didn't get it. The Democrats obtained a promise from the American Embassy in El Salvador to check on Andre Hernandez Romero. But as of this writing, there has been no update. Congressman Robert Garcia of California telling the Times, quote, no one has actually heard about Andre at all since the abduction, including his lawyers and his family. Joining us now is Congressman Robert Garcia of California. Sir, thank you very much for being here. I know it's a, I know it's a, a very busy time. Thank you. Sure.

[Jamie Raskin]

Happy to be here.

[Rachel Maddow]

Rachel, let me ask if you have any updates for us. If you've heard anything from the US Embassy in El Salvador, I know you've also sent letters to the Secretary of State and to ice. Have you been able to learn anything else about the fate of Andre Hernandez Romero?

[Jamie Raskin]

We have not yet learned anything new than what we were told at the embassy when we were in El Salvador just a few days ago. But it's really important that people understand what is happening, not just to Andre, but to so many others that are being sent to foreign prisons, and they're giving no due process here in the United States. People have to remember that Andre came to the US with an asylum appointment. He signed up for an appointment through an app that we have for asylum seekers. He was given a time to show up. He came to the border, he essentially claimed asylum, and then he was essentially kidnapped from that location by ice, by Homeland Security, sent to a country he knows nothing about into a prison in El Salvador. And his family has heard nothing about him since. This is a makeup artist. There's no indication he was ever in a gang. His family describes him as someone that's very sweet, that's very kind, vulnerable in some ways. And so this should frighten every single American and anger us that this is actually happening to other people, the inhumanity that is happening right now to people that are seeking asylum, to people that are here, in some cases, ordered to stay in the US by the US Courts and even the Supreme Court. Yet Donald Trump could care less about due process, and it's important that we receive word as soon as possible from the embassy or the State Department that Andrew Romero is okay.

[Rachel Maddow]

Can you tell us anything about your engagement with the embassy in El Salvador? If they agreed that they would try to seek information about him, at least they did.

[Jamie Raskin]

I mean, look, we met directly with the US Ambassador there on the ground, and, of course, we went there to continue to demand Kilmar's release, which, as we know, Donald Trump is defying the Supreme Court, A unanimous decision, and Kilmar needs to be released immediately. So that was what we were there for. In addition to that, Andre's case is very important. He is someone that we need to ensure gets his due process. I've been talking to his lawyer team here. Also in the United States. The ambassador, for the first time, acknowledged his case. And for the first time, after we left that meeting, made an official request to the Salvadorian government for a welfare check on Mr. Romero. And so that was the first time that we, as a country have asked to see if he was even okay or alive. We're waiting for that response. We continue to follow up to get a response, but I'm hoping the US Ambassador keeps his word and gets his response on how he is doing. It is crazy to think that this young man is sent to this prison. We saw those pictures of him at Scott crying out. He reports that he was crying out for his mom when actually he was being sent there. And so it's a horrific story. As an immigrant, a gay person, myself, it just makes me so upset and angry that would treat people this way. They are coming to the US Fleeing a horrific situation in their own country.

[Rachel Maddow]

Congressman Garcia, I need to ask you about a news story that has just broken within the past few minutes and I apologize that I do not know everything about this, but we've just received word from the ACLU in Louisiana and I'm just going to tell you what we've received from them Today. In the early hours of the morning, The New Orleans ICE field office deported at least two families, including two mothers and their minor children, three of whom are U.S. citizens, U.S. citizen children age 2, 4 and 7. And one of the mothers from these two families is currently pregnant. These are families, according to the aclu, who were arrested on Tuesday of this week and Thursday of this week. In both cases, according to the aclu, ICE held the families incommunicado, refusing or failing to respond to multiple attempts by attorneys and family members to contact them. But again, they're describing these whole families being deported, including U.S. citizen children. In the case of one of these two families, quote, one of the citizen children suffers from a rare form of metastatic cancer and was deported without medication or the ability to consult with the child's treating physicians, despite ICE being notified in advance of the child's urgent medical needs. I don't expect that you know anything about this before getting on the air to talk to me about it tonight. Again, this is just broken in the last couple of minutes, but let me just ask your reaction to this breaking news.

[Jamie Raskin]

Yeah, I'm just seeing the same reports. It is sickening that children are being deported. US Citizens are being deported, which we know is illegal and which we know is also just inhumane. The idea that they are taking these children. There has been no due process from what I can see from the reports. Essentially these agents are trying to rush through the process, trying to get people, ship them out of this country as fast as possible, giving them no real chance to go through the courts or through the process. And now we are deporting US Citizens, let alone children to other countries, to Honduras, to other places. And what people need to understand, people, and not just Democrats, but across this country, is we have to bring attention to this issue. This is an issue that's not just about immigration. It's about due process in this country, the Constitution. It's about the kind of country that we're going to be and how we're going to treat the people that are here, whether they're citizens or they're coming to our country seeking help. And so this idea that now we're sending US Citizens is both shocking to all of us, but should also anger us and continue to get out there and protest and continue to get out there and call out what Trump is doing to our country and to certainly people that are coming here for help.

[Rachel Maddow]

Congressman Robert Garcia of California, thank you for what you did today, what you did this week and with your colleagues going to El Salvador, being able to come back and talk to us about it in a way that we haven't otherwise been able to get that kind of information. Thank you for being able to talk with us about it tonight. I really appreciate it, sir. I'll just mention this is breaking news about apparently US Citizen children being deported. Politico is just reporting a US US Federal judge who is a Trump appointee has just scheduled a hearing for May 16, he said, which was, quote, in the interest of dispelling our strong suspicion that the US Government just deported a US Citizen with no meaningful process. In this case, it is a two year old child with the initials VML who was apparently deported to Honduras. The judge saying with no meaningful process. Here we go. We'll be right back. So this is part of a new campaign, a new ad campaign launched by the group Demand Justice Watch.

[Jamie Raskin]

Something alarming is happening inside America's top law firms.

[Rachel Maddow]

Under threat from Donald Trump, some of the most powerful firms in the country.

[Jamie Raskin]

Are bending the knee. This isn't just about lawyers.

[Rachel Maddow]

If no one stands to challenge the.

[Jamie Raskin]

Government in court, if people can't get.

[Rachel Maddow]

The representation they need, there's no rule of law, just rule by power.

[Jamie Raskin]

Stop bending the knee. Fight back.

[Rachel Maddow]

This new ad is part of a campaign from Demand justice that's called Big Law Cowards. Not to put too fine a point on it, it's designed to put pressure on nine big name law firms to change course. These are nine firms that tried to appease Trump and make him more kindly disposed to them than they are than he is to other law firms by making deals with him to provide hundreds of millions of dollars worth of free legal services to causes Trump chooses. In some cases, the firms promise to run their personnel policies at their firms along lines that Trump demands. This big Law Cowards campaign also put this truck mounted billboard on the street in D.C. this week outside the law offices of one of the big law firms that did one of these capitulation appeasement deals with Trump. The group also posted these signs outside the firm's offices with the same message along with what they say is the total amount of money these nine appeasement law firms have pledged to Trump in the form of free legal services demand justice says they plan to take this kind of action outside not just this one, but all nine of the big law firms who have capitulated to and tried to appease Trump. The head of that organization now telling NBC News, quote, when you see some of the most powerful law firms in the country, if not the world, unwilling to stand up to the administration when ordinary people are speaking out, we think it's really important to shine a bright light on that and really show that ordinary people demand that those most powerful speak out against the administration and not bend the knee. The idea is both to shame these law firms, certainly, but also to tell them that it's not too late to change course. If you made one of these deals, you can cancel it. You don't have to stick to it. He's not sticking to his side of it. It's not too late to change course and get on the right side of history and the right side of democracy. We shall see. Watch this space. Hey, I'm going to be here on MSNBC tomorrow, Saturday at noon Eastern. It is the episode of the Katie Fang show tomorrow. I'm gonna be there with Katie for that. Katie is fantastic. She has helped all of us at this network understand every one of the legal issues that has come up in the Trump era. She is a great friend. She's a great colleague. She's so smart. She's so fast. I'm really gonna miss her. But I will be honored to be with her tomorrow to talk about what's happened in these first hundred days. That's tomorrow, noon Eastern here on msnbc. What is the secret to making great toast? Oh, you're just gonna go in with the hard hitting questions. I'm Dan Pashman from the Sporkful. We like to say it's not for foodies, it's for eaters. We use food to learn about culture, history and science. There was the time we looked into allegations of discrimination at Bon Appetit or when I spent three years inventing a new pasta shape. It's a complex noodle that you've put together every episode of the Sporkful. You're gonna learn something, feel something, and laugh. The Sporkful from Stitcher. Get it wherever you get your podcasts.