← The Rachel Maddow Show
The Rachel Maddow Show
'Untrustworthy': Past colleagues of Trump's FBI pick, Kash Patel, warn he makes stuff up
00:46:49
Rachel Maddow takes a closer look at Donald Trump's pick to lead the FBI, Kash Patel, who several of his past colleagues from the first Trump administration warn has a tendency to make stuff up.
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- [00:04]
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- [01:02]
Rachel Maddow
Thanks Drew at Home for joining us here tonight. Really happy to have you here. So this is Jasper County, Indiana. It's a mostly rural county in northwest Indiana. Closest big city is Chicago, but Chicago is like 80, 90 miles away. Yesterday, around 4 in the afternoon in Jasper County, Indiana, a sheriff's deputy pulled over a car in a traffic stop. And and we don't know what the traffic stop was for, and we don't know yet exactly what happened during that traffic stop. But something happened during the traffic stop that made the sheriff's deputy decide that the man he pulled over is someone who he should arrest. Now, the man who was pulled over by the sheriff's deputy, according to police, he had a gun with him at the time he was pulled over. And again, according to police, when that sheriff's deputy decided that he was going to arrest that man, there was then an altercation of some kind. There was a fight of some kind, and the sheriff's deputy ended up shooting that man and killing him. Now the sheriff's deputy is on leave while the incident is under investigation. There's a lot that we don't know. For example, the police are saying the man who was shot was armed, that he had a gun with him when he was pulled over. We don't know if that's relevant to the altercation. We don't know if the sheriff's deputy knew there was a gun. We don't know if the guy pulled the gun on the officer. We don't yet know the details of what happened, but we do know that the man who was pulled over is dead. Now, police say he resisted arrest. The sheriff's deputy ended up shooting him as he was resisting arrest. Per the police's description of the event. We also know that that man who got shot in that traffic arrest yesterday in Indiana just last week, he was pardoned by Donald Trump for his crimes on January 6th. The man had apparently traveled to Washington for the January 6th event with his uncle. His uncle got two and a half years in prison for assaulting law enforcement with a dangerous weapon. He was seen with an upside down flag pole, appearing to hit an officer with it. His nephew, the man who was killed yesterday when that sheriff's deputy tried to arrest him at a traffic stop. The man's nephew ended up serving six months for what he did on January 6th. He got out of jail in July. He was then on supervised release until last week when his conviction and all the terms of his release were wiped off the slate by an unconditional pardon from Donald Trump. So there's a lot to cover right now in the news. Honestly, it's impossible to cover it all at once. You kind of need a strategy, right? You have to notice everything, but you can only, you know, there's only so much bandwidth. Today, for example, we got news that the big, showy mass arrests that the Trump administration is showing off because they wanna say that immigrants are criminals. And so they're rounding up all the immigrants who have committed these terrible crimes. We have news today that even the Trump administration is having to admit that about half the people they arrested yesterday haven't committed any crimes at all, but they arrested them anyway. All right? They've made this big show out of saying they'd be prioritizing, focusing on immigrants who've committed crimes. Turns out that is not at all what they are doing. They are just arresting immigrants. We also have news today that while the Trump administration is insisting on using military aircraft to fly immigrants out of the country, that appears to be purely for the drama of it, purely for aesthetics, purely for the photo op value that they think they're getting out of it. Of putting these people, again, about half of whom have not committed any crime, putting them onto military planes as if this is some sort of war operation. A military aircraft moving one plane full of people that way costs us, the taxpayers, about $800,000. If they instead shipped the same number of people home the way the government used to do it before last week, that would cost about $100,000. So per flight, they're wasting about $700,000 per flight, $700,000 of taxpayer money just to show off how cool it is that they're using the military, right? Great use of tax dollars, efficiency, real respect for the military, we've got the mass firings of inspectors general at more than a dozen government agencies. Mass firings done in a way that is just flat out illegal. But they are doing it anyway, banking on who's going to stop them. After Trump totally caved to China on day one of his administration and said he wouldn't enforce the law on TikTok, which is a big favor to China, and after Trump funder Elon Musk got Republicans in Congress to change the government funding bill during the transition, specifically so he could build his huge AI plant in China using Chinese workers instead of having to build it in the U.S. yeah. After all that toughness on China today, surprise. The NASDAQ tanked and the leading US computer chip maker lost $600 billion in market capitalization in a single day, all thanks to new news about the Chinese AI industry cleaning our clock. But yeah, tell me more about tough on China. Trump administration is sending transgender women to men's prisons. Trump administration is firing transgender service members. Trump administration is ending the basic anti discrimination rules in federal agencies to make it okay to discriminate on the basis of race or religion or whatever else. They've today attempted to fire the whole team that worked on the January 6th federal case under special counsel Jack Smith. Even though many of those people can't be fired the way they're trying to do it because of civil service protections, they're trying to do it anyway. Today. They've ordered the Justice Department an investigation into the charging decisions that were made by prosecutors handling all the January 6 cases, which is presumably their precursor to trying to say it was some kind of crime in and of itself for federal prosecutors to prosecute people for the crimes they committed in the Capitol attack. The people who Trump just freed today, they moved the most senior career people in the whole Justice Department out of their jobs today. They ordered dozens of the most senior staff at USAID to go on leave immediately. Today. They started the process, apparently, of gutting fdic. Really, FDIC is like the golden retriever puppy of US Government programs. Who's against fdic? I mean, I might love the weather service. I do. You might love the post office. Many people do. Somebody else might love the Library of Congress. Who doesn't. But honestly, who doesn't like fdic? What's fdic? Very simply, FDIC is the thing that ensures that when you deposit money in a US bank, you won't lose that money. It's nice, right? Bank deposits are insured by fdic. It's been true for, like, What a century. Now the Trump administration is apparently coming after that too, because what totally non controversial, effective thing in the US Government do they not want to blow up and immediately. So, like, this is just, this is one day at a time, right? This is just one day. There's a lot to cover. But let's just focus for a second because we can, because we're capable of it. Let's just focus for a second on what's coming up this week. This week on Wednesday, we're going to get, for example, a confirmation hearing for Howard Lutnick to be Commerce Secretary of the United States. Howard Letnick is not a well known public figure. He's Donald Trump's friend. And he is trying to become Commerce secretary while simultaneously serving as effectively the banker for a specific cryptocurrency which recently moved its headquarters to El Salvador and which has come under federal scrutiny for everything from allegedly financing terrorism to evading Russian sanctions to mass scale money laundering to international drug trafficking. He's the banker for that particular cryptocurrency while trying to become U.S. commerce Secretary, too. That's Wednesday. Howard Letnick, Trump's friend for Commerce Wednesday is also the first of two confirmation hearings for Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. At a time when we've got a weird new big tuberculosis outbreak in Kansas and a bird flu epidemic that isn't just birds. It's now crossed from birds into raccoons and bears and sea lions and cats. It's crossed into 900 herds of dairy cattle. And yet now, yes, it has started to infect humans, threatening a new pandemic at a time when the Health and Human Services secretary has a whole horror movie worth of incoming to deal with. It will be interesting to see how senators contend with Trump's choice that job, Trump's choice for that job, a man who questions the polio vaccine, who says Wi Fi causes leaky brain, that's his phrase, leaky brain. And who says Covid was specially engineered to spare the Jews. Cause, you know, so that's Wednesday. The following day on Thursday, we'll have confirmation hearings for Tulsi Gabbard, who is widely viewed as the Trump nominee most likely to be rejected by the United States Senate or maybe not even make it to a vote. This is a perception, according to the New York Times today that is reportedly shared by Trump himself. Now, we're going to be talking more about Tulsi Gabbard's nomination on tomorrow's show if she doesn't get pulled from consideration between now and then, which is starting to seem possible. But. But do note that some of the late breaking reporting on her just from this past week, included the previously unreported fact that on one of her trips to Syria, one of her meetings in Syria, per the Washington Post, was with a Syrian cleric who had threatened to activate a network of suicide bombers inside the United States and Europe. That was one of the meetings she took in Syria alongside her other meetings with the dictator of Syria. So, again, more on Tulsi Gabbard's nomination to come. Usually, when it comes to a Director of National Intelligence nomination and you hear the phrase activate his network of suicide bombers, it's because it's something that the DNI is working on, not a person the DNI is having a friendly meeting with. Also on that same day, though, that we're going to get Tulsi Gabbard's confirmation hearing. On Thursday, we're going to have the confirmation hearing for Trump's choice to be FBI director. Now, this is a job that should not be open because FBI directors have 10 year terms. FBI director Chris Wray has three years left in his 10 year term, but he inexplicably decided to resign before his term was up, which had purely and only the effect of making it easier for Trump to install someone new in the job. That was nice of him. But now, thanks to Chris Wray, here we are. As January 6th pardon recipients start to get arrested for other crimes after Trump pardoned them. As one January 6th pardon recipient was killed in an altercation with police at a traffic stop yesterday in Indiana. As the Justice Department today starts to investigate its own prosecutors for having had the temerity to bring charges against January 6th rioters in the first place. So let's just, you know, just take this one day at a time. Let's just take a second to reflect on who Trump is trying this week to install as head of the FBI, as head of the 38,000 men and women of the nation's premier federal law enforcement agency, with all of its immense power and responsibility, we will go out.
- [14:06]
Kash Patel
And find the conspirators, not just in government, but in the media. Yes, we're gonna come after the people in the media who lied about American citizen, who helped Joe Biden rig presidential elections. We're going to come after you, whether it's criminally or civilly. We'll figure that out. But, yeah, we're putting you all on notice.
- [14:22]
Rachel Maddow
That is Kash Patel, Donald Trump's pick to run the FBI, describing his plans for the second Trump administration. That was in an interview in 2023. You might have heard about that quote. You might have heard that quote. You might have also heard him describing his plans for the FBI's headquarters building in Washington, D.C.
- [14:44]
Kash Patel
I'D shut down the FBI Hoover Building on day one and reopening the next day as a museum of the deep state.
- [14:53]
Rachel Maddow
Well, hey, you know, at least he is pro museum. So those are two of the relatively recent statements by Cash Patel that I think have captured people's imagination, that have received a lot of traffic since Trump shockingly named him as his choice to run the FBI. But there's been such a fire hose of news and stuff to keep up with with all of these radical nominees this one week thus far of really radical action by the new president and his appointees. I mean, there's been so much that, you know, some of the truly wildly inappropriate or unqualified or at least controversial nominees like Doug Burgum at the Interior Department or Kristi Noem at Homeland Security, or even John Ratcliffe at CIA, I mean, they've just been sliding through without much attention, even though they deserve attention. But, you know, people only have so much bandwidth. Right. It's understandable, it's regrettable, it's lamentable, but it's understandable. That said, for the FBI, specifically, given what Trump is already doing with law enforcement and the Justice Department and the pardons, of all the people from January 6th, this is just one that I feel like we can't afford to let melt into the sauce. Right. Let's just look at a few other things about Cash Patel ahead of his confirmation hearings this week. Here's one thing. This is not actually the first time Donald Trump has tried to install Kash Patel in a high ranking position in the FBI. In the final months of Trump's first term, you might remember that Trump reportedly tried to make Kash Patel FBI Deputy Director. That effort did not go well. Trump's Attorney General at the time, Bill Barr, says he told the White House Cash Patel would be made FBI Deputy Director, quote, over my dead body. Bill Barr wrote in his memoir, quote, patel had virtually no experience that would qualify him to serve at the highest level of the world's preeminent law enforcement agency. The very idea of moving Cash Patel into a role like this showed a shocking detachment from reality. And that was when Trump wanted him as the number two guy in the FBI, let alone the director. But, okay, you know, that's just one senior Trump administration official. Bill Barr doesn't have that much credibility with any, any, any group of Americans at this point in our political moment in America. Set aside Bill Barr. What about other Trump appointees who worked with Cash Patel? Well, Trump's deputy national security advisor who worked closely with Kash Patel, he had this to say, quote, he's absolutely unqualified for FBI director. He is untrustworthy. It is an absolute disgrace to American citizens to even consider an individual of this nature. That's Trump's deputy national security adviser. And this. He's untrustworthy. This is kind of a theme and descriptions of Kash Patel from people specifically who worked with him in the first Trump term. Several former Trump officials say that Kash Patel had a tendency to embellish, to mislead. I think the word you're looking for here is lie about important stuff. John Bolton, who you just saw on this Evening with Jen Psaki here on msnbc, he was Trump's national security adviser, so therefore, effectively Cash Patel's boss when he was at the National Security Council. He described him tonight on MSNBC with Jen Psaki as a, quote, climbing weed. He says Kash Patel falsely claimed to have been in charge of a whole directorate at the National Security Account Security Council when he was not. Bolden wrote in his book, quote, his puffery was characteristic of the resume inflation we had detected when Trump pressed him on us. We found he had also exaggerated his role in cases he worked on as a Justice Department lawyer. Given the sensitivity of the National Security Council's responsibilities, problems of credibility or reliability would ordinarily disqualify any job applicant. We found he had exaggerated his role in cases he worked on as a Justice Department lawyer. Bolton. I said he said that in that book. That was actually in an op ed specifically opposing Kash Patel for this FBI job. He exaggerated his role in cases he worked on as a Justice Department lawyer as well as exaggerating his position in the National Security Council. What did he exaggerate about his time as his time in the Justice Department? What was that?
- [19:38]
Kash Patel
I was the main justice lead prosecutor for Benghazi for a while.
- [19:42]
Rachel Maddow
No kidding. Actually, yes, kidding, kidding. Hopefully he was kidding because it's definitely not true. New York Times, quote, Mr. Patel has repeatedly claimed that he was the lead prosecutor in the government's pursuit of the perpetrators of the 2012 attack on a US diplomatic compound in Benghazi, Libya, which killed four Americans. In reality, quote, he had no role on the Benghazi trial team. The pretrial investigation was handled by a team led by the FBI in the U.S. attorney's office in Washington. In his capacity as a junior prosecutor. Mr. Patel routed arrest warrants and the like up the chain for approval. Quote, Mr. Patel took a junior position in the counterterrorism section in late January 2014, well after the Benghazi investigation started. He left the department in April 2017, about six months before the first Benghazi case went to trial. What was it that he said? He said, I was the main justice, lead prosecutor for Benghazi. Asked by Mother Jones magazine about Kash Patel's claims to have led the Benghazi prosecution's efforts in D.C. a former FBI special agent who was on that investigation for years responded, quote, quote, oh, my God, comma, no. Oh, my God, no. Despite that, because, sure, why not? A Trump transition spokesman recently insisted that Cash Patel was in fact assigned as the lead Benghazi prosecutor because that's their line and they're sticking to it. Here's another one. A longtime Trump adviser tells the Atlantic magazine that, quote, he had been in Patel's presence more than once when Patel claimed he was the person who gave the order for US Forces to move in and kill the ISIS leader Abu Bakr al Baghdadi in 2019. This despite the fact that the Baghdadi killing was, quote, an operation for which Patel, by his own admission, wasn't even in the Situation Room. Asked about this, Patel said, through his spokesperson, Trump made that brave and courageous call. Yes, but what about the reports that you repeatedly claimed that you were the one who made the call, that you, quote, gave the order? What about that? On the issue of January 6, specifically, as the Justice Department today is trying to fire all the prosecutors involved in the federal January 6 case against Trump as they are opening an internal investigation into the prosecutors who brought cases against the rioters at the Capitol. Have you ever heard what Kash Patel says himself about January 6, about what that was? Well, first of all, I should tell you that Kash Patel is credited officially as the producer of the January 6 anthem, the rendition of the Star Spangled Banner, sung by a group of imprisoned January 6th defendants, overlaid with Donald Trump reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. He's the producer of that hot track. This is who Trump wants to be put in charge of the FBI. Kash Patel says it was the FBI that was behind January 6th in the first place.
- [23:03]
Kash Patel
What you need to show is whether or not the FBI and government agents were using undercover operatives and informants on the day of January 6th. Once you prove that, then you defeat the insurrection narrative with the FBI's own documentation. Forget what the videotape shows. I started smirking and rolling my eyes.
- [23:21]
Rachel Maddow
And what I meant to convey with that is, come on, we know they were involved.
- [23:25]
Kash Patel
Well, no, no, look, I totally clo.
- [23:28]
Rachel Maddow
Yeah, I'm not saying I know definitively. It looks like you have a preponderance of evidence suggesting there may have been federal law enforcement involved in making that thing happen.
- [23:37]
Kash Patel
I'll get you beyond a reasonable doubt.
- [23:40]
Rachel Maddow
Federal law enforcement involved in making that thing happen. No, no, no. I'll get you beyond a reasonable doubt. Meaning will criminally prosecute them for it, presumably. Right. That is Kash Patel on a podcast. A podcast, by the way, that, according to a recent Justice Department indictment, was secretly funded by Russian state media as part of a Kremlin influence operation. Neat. The host of that podcast has said if those allegations are true, he was deceived about the funding. But there he is with Kash Patel. The host says, you know, hey, we know the FBI was involved in January 6th. Kash Patel says, I totally agree. The FBI helped make January 6th happen. I'll get you beyond a reasonable doubt. Now he's Trump's choice to lead the FBI. Now, Kash Patel also had his own podcast on which he repeatedly suggested the FBI was involved in planning January 6th and has been engaged in trying to cover it up ever since. His own podcast was called Cash's Corner. It was a production of something called the Epoch Times. Epoch. Epoch times. From 2021 to 2023, Kash Patel appeared on other Epoch Times shows as well, on its TV network in its documentaries. And the Epoch Times is sort of hard to boil down to its essence. Suffice to say that when your uncle at Thanksgiving started talking about a world government plot to cull the human population and to force the straggling survivors to eat bugs, it is likely he got that from the Epoch Times. But given that the Epoch Times, until quite recently had Kash Patel on their payroll, consider this about the financing of this outlet. This is from NBC News's Brandy Zadrozhny quote. After years of struggling, the once fringe newspaper powered by Falun Gong, a religious group persecuted in China, had finally found a foothold in conservative media. The Epoch Times had spent a small fortune on pro Trump ads in the run up to the 2020 election, they were amassing a windfall in the wake of Trump's loss, increasing revenue by a staggering 685% over two years. Why did their revenue go up more than 600% over two years? The company said it was making money through subscriptions and donations. But these are claims that Federal prosecutors now say were false. In 2024, the US Justice Department alleged a giant multimillion dollar money laundering scheme was underway at the Epoch Times, perpetrated by one of its executives. And honestly calling it a money laundering scheme vastly undersells what was allegedly going on at the Epoch Times. According to this indictment, the Epoch Times chief financial officer, quote, managed the outlet's Make Money Online team. The Make Money Online team carried out the scheme to buy crime proceeds and transfer them to bank accounts linked to the epoch times. From 2020 to 2024, the team allegedly used a crypto platform to buy tens of millions of dollars in crime proceeds in exchange for cryptocurrency. The crime proceeds came from sources including fraudulently obtained unemployment insurance benefits. Prosecutors alleged those funds were then loaded onto tens of thousands of prepaid debit cards. After purchasing the crime proceeds, participants allegedly used stolen personally identifiable information to open various types of accounts and transfer the proceeds into bank accounts linked with the Epoch Times and related entities, quote, to hide the illegal nature of the proceeds. The CFO and his co conspirators allegedly lied to banks and other entities about their sources, telling them basically that the Epoch Times was just raking in the dough and subscriptions and donations. Thanks to all their pro Trump content. In the wake of this federal money laundering indictment, the Epoch Times CFO has pled not guilty. The Epoch Times has said it will cooperate with the investigation. There's no evidence that Kash Patel himself knew about this alleged scheme or was involved in any money laundering scheme. But in a bit of exquisite understatement, Brandy Zadrozny at NBC News says writes this, quote, it is unclear how having a former Epoch Times content creator as director of the FBI might affect any investigation of this matter going forward. Yeah, you think? Because if Donald Trump gets his way this week, this guy's confirmation hearing is Thursday. If Trump gets his way on this nomination specifically, the guy running the FBI will not just be someone who spent the better part of the last few years hosting a podcast accusing the FBI of secretly attacking the US Capitol and then covering it up. But he has been hosting that podcast for a media outlet that is currently under federal investigation for running a massive money laundering operation from its executive suite. But there's one last thing to know about Trump's pick to lead the FBI. And that's next. Along with former head of the Intelligence Committee, current member of the Judiciary Committee, who's going to hear from Kash Patel at those hearings this week. Week, he's going to join us live here Next. There's more to come. Stay with us.
- [29:08]
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- [31:11]
Patrick Adams
Hi, my name is Patrick Adams.
- [31:13]
Rachel Maddow
You may know me as Mike Ross on the TV series Suits.
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And I'm Sarah Rafferty and I play Donna Paulson on Suits.
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Rachel Maddow
And we have a podcast podcast called Sidebar where every week we watch and discuss an episode of the show.
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Advertiser
Because here's the thing, neither of us have really watched it.
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Rachel Maddow
That's true. At least until now.
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So we're going to cover all nine.
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Rachel Maddow
Seasons, share behind the scenes stories and.
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Talk to our co stars and friends like Gina Torres and Aaron Korsh.
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Rachel Maddow
So look, if you love Suits, amazing, this podcast is for you.
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Advertiser
And if you've never watched Suits, also Amazing. You can join us and we'll watch it together.
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Rachel Maddow
I think we're gonna have a lot of fun.
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Listen to sidebar wherever you get your.
- [31:44]
Rachel Maddow
Podcast and don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode. There's a little more to know about Trump's pick to lead the FBI, who has his confirmation hearing this week in the podcast he used to host. You will notice that Kash Patel is wearing a very distinguished pin there. So really easy to see. Has a logo on it. K$sign H. Get it Cash Patel. Cash Money. This is a logo that Kash Patel has actually tried to trademark. He sold all manner of Cash branded merchandise at his Fight with Cash website, which is now rebranded as the Cash Foundation. You could get yourself a deck of playing cards, the collector's item of the century. In one version, the king card belongs to Cash, the distinguished wizard and corruption combatant. While the joker is Hilary the dark Heart, seeker of absolute power. There are Cash shirts and Cash hoodies and Cash socks and cash scarves. There's something called an orange man Bad Punisher license plate. If you're feeling extra spendy. There's an orange man bad steel wall art. Steel wall art only $250 act now quote perfect for every man cave, exclamation point. There is cash wine, a six pack of Cabernet Sauvignon on sale for just $243.99. Hints of BlackBerry, dark chocolate, plum and a touch, a touch of a touch of French oak. Mr. Patel has shilled for a conservative cell phone carrier use promo code Cash for a free month of service. He has shilled for a Christian payment processor. He has shilled for what Kash Patel says is quote, finally, quote finally a credit card for conservatives. Patriots are fighting back against the liberal.
- [33:51]
Patrick Adams
Agenda with Coin, America's first credit card built for conservatives.
- [33:57]
Rachel Maddow
Kash Patel also hawks pills that he says can reverse the COVID vaccination. Reverse the vax, get healthy. The pills are made by a company whose co founder has been a defendant in an apparently ongoing class action lawsuit filed by people who say they were overcharged for diet pills. But quote order this home run kit to rid your body of the harms of the vax. Says your would be next director of the FBI. Then there's his kids books. Patel has written a trilogy of kids books featuring the evil Hillary Queenton who tries to undermine the rightful election victory of King Donald and Cash the distinguished discoverer, a wizard who under who covers the plot. Later characters include the Baron Von Biden and his scheming assistant kama la la la. At one point, Kash Patel signed some copies of one of these children's books with the slogan of the QAnon movement, the movement that claims Democrats are a cabal of cannibalistic Satan worshipping pedophiles who eat children. Kash Patel doesn't just do stuff for the kids, though. His most recent non kids book is called Government Gangsters, which contains an appendix with a list of names members of the executive branch deep state, 60 names on the list, including President Biden and Vice President Harris, various Biden and Obama administration officials, as well as obscure Trump administration officials whom Kash Patel feels have wronged Donald Trump in some way. Kash Patel notes that this list of 60 names is not exhaustive. For example, it does not spell out individual members of what he calls the, quote, entire fake news mafia press corps. But it is good to know that the potential next director of the FBI has himself a starter target list ready to go, published, printed out in black and white. We reached out to the White House for comment from Mr. Patel on some of these things. We have not heard back. I know there is a dump truck full of news coming out of this new administration every day. I know we cannot focus on everything all at once, but this seems worth focusing on considering that Kash Patel has his hearing to become the next FBI director this week. Joining us now is Senator Adam Schiff, Democrat of California. He's a member of the Judiciary Committee in the Senate, which means he will be able to question Mr. Patel at his confirmation hearing for FBI director this week. Senator, it's really nice to see you. Thank you for being here.
- [36:26]
Senator Adam Schiff
Good to be with you.
- [36:29]
Rachel Maddow
So I've tried to shed a little bit of light on the context of Mr. Patel's nomination, what's going on at the FBI and the General Justice Department right now, and also a little bit of his history. Do you feel like Mr. Patel's history and his qualifications or lack thereof for this position are well understood by the Judiciary Committee?
- [36:53]
Senator Adam Schiff
I think they're well understood. The question, as with so many of these nominees who shouldn't be in a million years confirmed for their position, will it just be Democrats that oppose them? Or will Republicans also acknowledge what should be plain someone like Kash Patel is not fit to run an agency of this significance. The only added context that I would mention, in addition to what you went through, is the FBI. Not only is, I think, the premier law enforcement agency in the country, but the director of the FBI is one of the most powerful officials in the federal government. And a lot of the work of the FBI is pretty unreviewable. That is, if the FBI director decides to conduct an investigation, or in the case of Epoch Times, not investigate a potentially corrupt or money laundering party, there's not a whole lot of review that goes on, at least not until you get to the stage where someone gets indicted and then they have the due process of a court proceeding. But it is an enormously powerful position where you want someone of stature, someone of independence, someone of character, someone, Frankie, like Christopher Wray, who I didn't always agree with, but had all of those attributes. The last person you want is someone like Kash Patel, because in addition to being dishonest, untrustworthy, lacking in character, all the things that you went through, his only real qualification is he was the guy in the first Trump administration that you went to when no one else would do the dirty work the President wanted done. He was the guy, and he therefore rose very quickly through the ranks. That is not who you want in this position.
- [38:41]
Rachel Maddow
There have been allegations made in two different settings, two different time periods, about Mr. Patel's involvement in. With very sensitive, very difficult hostage rescue operations. In one case, he is accused of having jeopardized the investigation, jeopardized the rescue operation, forgive me, by saying that permission had been obtained from a foreign government for the US to have aircraft in their airspace, when in fact that permission had not been obtained. In another case, he is accused of having jeopardized a potential rescue by publicly announcing it before it was clear that the people who were being rescued were actually safely in U.S. custody. Those, to me, seem like very nonpartisan, very much just national security red flags that I wonder if you perceive some of your Republican colleagues on the committee is potentially having concerns about those things, even if they are otherwise sympathetic to the way Mr. Patel has lined himself up as Trump's sort of enforcer and minister of vengeance.
- [39:58]
Senator Adam Schiff
Well, I think they're absolutely concerned about exactly those kind of things. In one of the two situations you mentioned, according to Secretary Esper, Defense Secretary Esper, I think in his book, Patel is believed to have essentially lied about whether we had permission to fly into the country in which the rescue operation was going to take place, that had to be delayed while they had to confirm whether, in fact this was true. If you can't trust someone in these urgent situations, whether it's a hostage rescue or it's reports of a terrorist act that might be committed, if you can't trust the FBI director in that room, people are going to get hurt. And so you need someone of character. You need someone that you can rely upon. You don't want someone who is endlessly self promoting, self aggrandizing, claiming they had positions they didn't, claiming they got authorizations they didn't, or fabricating things, blaming the government, in this case the FBI for January 6th, patently false claims. That we're even considering him is such a dramatic lowering of the bar from the first term. I think when you get past Matt Gaetz, this is the, you know, the most, not only unqualified but disqualified candidate for any of these positions. And he has competition for that.
- [41:28]
Rachel Maddow
Yeah, for sure, to say the least. Senator Adam Schiff, really appreciate you making time to be here with us tonight. Nice to see you, sir.
- [41:36]
Senator Adam Schiff
Good to see you.
- [41:38]
Rachel Maddow
All right, got more news ahead. Stay with us.
- [41:44]
Patrick Adams
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- [41:56]
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- [42:07]
Rachel Maddow
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- [42:10]
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- [42:15]
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- [43:49]
Rachel Maddow
So this is a US military aircraft. It's a C17. These are meant to fly not only US troops around the world, but also tons of cargo. You can see if you look inside just how huge cavernous they are. These carry around 85 tons and can still get off the ground. Wow. Right now though, the Trump administration is using these same military planes for this, for deportations. The Trump administration used this C17 last week to deport 80 people from Texas to Guatemala. Unless each of those people weighs more than one ton, it is functionally inexplicable why they needed to be boarded onto a C17 to make that flight. Maybe they're very dense, I don't know. Deportations, of course, take place under every presidential administration. Typically the government hires a plane for the day to do deportations. They charter. A traditional civilian style aircraft costs around $8,000 an hour. So take for example that flight last week from Texas to Guatemala, about a 12 hour round trip flight. If you did it the old way on a normal non military plane, that would have cost taxpayers a little over $100,000. But that of course is not how the Trump administration is doing it because look how toug makes them look to use these big military planes instead. The plane in this picture, this C17, it is lovely and it can do a lot of amazing things, but it is also wildly expensive compared with normal aircraft. Instead of costing roughly $100,000 for that flight, this flight under the Trump administration cost taxpayers more than a quarter million dollars. Just that one flight. And it's not just the C17, that's actually the cheaper plane they're using. The White House says they're also going to use a second kind of military plane to carry out deportation ones that carry out deportations. One that's even more expensive, a 12 hour round trip flight on one of these babies on a C130E that cost taxpayers as much as $850,000. And this is not a one off thing that they just did for like week one to show off how tough they are. And look at our great photo op. The Trump administration says they plan to use military planes to deport immigrants every single day of the Trump administration. So 365 days a year, times four years, times roughly, let's say $800,000 wasted every single one of those days. But if you created A bonfire of all that money. It would outshine the sun. But that's money that they are lighting on fire for no reason other than they think it looks cool, looks tough. What kind of respect does this show for the military, by the way? The new administration has been trying to make a big, splashy deal of all the mass arrests it's been carrying out, very proudly thumping their chest and saying they got 1200 immigrants arrested in just one day yesterday. Right. They're showing off the fact that they're making good on their promise to prioritize the deportation of immigrants who've committed serious and violent crimes. Except the administration is having to admit today that actually about half of those people they arrested yesterday are not violent criminals at all. Half of them are people who have not committed any criminal offense at all, or if they're accused of anything, it's a nonviolent offense. But they nevertheless are about to be put on an $800,000 flight out of the country. Because doesn't that photo op look awesome? Joining us now is Congressman Joan Neguse, Democrat of Colorado, member of the House Democratic leadership team. Sir, it's nice to see you. Thanks for being here here.
- [47:47]
Congressman Jonah Goose
Thank you.
- [47:47]
Rachel Maddow
Rachel.
- [47:47]
Congressman Jonah Goose
Good evening. Good to be with you.
- [47:49]
Rachel Maddow
Congress has the power of the purse. That includes approving the budget for the military. What is your feeling about this pledge that they're going to use military planes every day for. For deportations?
- [48:01]
Congressman Jonah Goose
Well, first, I would just say, Rachel, I think you've articulated well the core strategy, apparently, of the Trump administration over the last week, which is to flood the zone with destructive and chaotic decisions, accompanied by bluster and photo ops, whether it's in reference to the planes or the inauguration rally in which the president signed a number of destructive executive orders to obfuscate away from the real damage that's caused by the decisions that he and his administration are making. And that, of course, extends in the immigration context to his unconstitutional attempt to effectively rewrite the 14th Amendment, to the pardons that you've covered extensively, that he issued to violent felon Collins, who assaulted police officers on January 6th. And all of these decisions writ large, of course, are striking a lot of fear in communities across the country, including communities that I represent here in Colorado. So, of course, it is beyond the irony of ironies that the waste of taxpayer dollars that you described would only be revealed by virtue of your reporting, since there is no inspector general as a result of his midnight purge of the inspector generals just a few days ago. So it's important for us to continue to stay alert and to raise these issues to a broader section of the American public.
- [49:21]
Rachel Maddow
As I mentioned, you're in Democratic leadership in Congress, and I think you're getting at it a little bit here in what you just said. But can you share a little bit about how Democrats, especially Democrats in leadership right now, are thinking in terms of strategy and potential action around immigration and the new administration? I mean, obviously they've got some highlight things they are trying to do. They are trying to bring us back, if not to the 1960s, particularly potentially to the 1860s in terms of what they're doing on civil rights and discrimination. We're seeing what they're doing in terms of trying to use law enforcement to terrorize and punish people who either criticize or in some ways are defined as in opposition to the president and his administration. They're taking away all forms of accountability and oversight, as you mentioned with the attorneys general, I mean, with the inspectors general, excuse me, but what they're doing to immigrants is something they say they're going to do every day. And they're already getting rid of the idea that it's just going to be criminals, violent criminals. They're already admitting that they're arresting people who don't have any serious criminal charges against them. What's Democratic strategy for trying to take that on?
- [50:38]
Congressman Jonah Goose
A couple things I'd say, Rachel. First, I certainly agree with you. I think the fears will only metastasize given the current course that this administration is on. I think most Americans agree that our immigration system is broken and that it merits working together in a bipartisan way to protect dreamers, to address immigration in a comprehensive, holistic way. That is certainly not this approach that the administration is taking. And I know, I suspect a lot of your viewers, certainly a lot of American citizens, citizens, feel helpless and powerless in this moment. Given the events of the last seven days, I would encourage folks to resist that temptation. We are not powerless. We each have agency. Every member of Congress, every senator and every citizen has a voice, and now is the time to use it. I would remind your viewers, eight years ago, as you covered extensively, Rachel, during President Trump's first term, he made a cornerstone priority of his administration, the repeal of the Affordable Care Act. And as you know, that ultimately did not come to fruition, notwithstanding Republican majorities in the House and the Senate. And that's because the American public stood up and spoke loudly in opposition to the disastrous plans that he had articulated. I believe that the same will be required in this moment. As you know, the Republicans have a dwindling majority that is shrinking by the day in the House. And we will certainly stand principled, consistent with our value values, against any efforts that the Trump administration is pursuing that I believe would undermine the rule of law or, as I said, strike palpable fear in the hearts of so many of our constituents.
- [52:09]
Rachel Maddow
Congressman Jonah Goose, thank you so much for being here, sir. It's nice to see you.
- [52:13]
Congressman Jonah Goose
Good to see you.
- [52:14]
Rachel Maddow
We'll be right back. Stay with us. All right. That's going to do it for me tonight. I'm going to see you again tomorrow and every night this week at 9pm Eastern here on Ms. In the meantime, you can find me on Bluesky. Do you have Blue sky yet? You should try it if you don't have it yet. I am on blueskyadow.msnbc.com hey, everybody, it's Rob Lowe here, if you haven't heard. I have a podcast that's called literally with Rob Lowe. And basically it's conversations I've had that really make you feel like you're pulling up a chair at an intimate dinner between myself and people that I admire, like Aaron Sorkin or Tiffany Haddish, Demi Moore, Chris Pratt, Michael J. Fox. There are new episodes out every Thursday, so subscribe, please, and listen wherever you get your podcasts.