← The Rachel Maddow Show
The Rachel Maddow Show
Why Donald Trump's medical records say more than he realizes
00:44:10
Dr. David Kessler had previously described for Rachel Maddow how Donald Trump benefitted from the federal medical establishment in surviving a sever case of Covid, only to make drastic cuts to that institution, including firing the doctor responsible for Trump being able to receive his Covid treatment. Now Dr. Kessler returns to point out that Trump's medical records show another benefit of the federal medical system, and again he is cutting the very thing that has helped improve his health.
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- [00:01]
Rachel Maddow
Here's something you should know. While headlines shift constantly, Planned Parenthood continues.
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Brian Schatz
Its vital work without flinching.
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Rachel Maddow
The assault on reproductive health isn't random. It's strategic and persistent. But Planned Parenthood, they remain steadfast, ensuring everyone can access quality health care. That's a story that deserves attention and your support. Donate now@plannedparenthood.org NetCredit is here to say yes to a personal loan or line.
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David Kessler
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Rachel Maddow
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David Kessler
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- [01:00]
Rachel Maddow
Really happy to have you here. So this was Mesa, Arizona today. Protesters outside the Mesa Gateway Airport today. They were protesting specifically against a company called Avelo Airlines, a v E l o. Avelo Airlines is a small, low budget airline that flies people out of places like Daytona Beach, Florida and Wilmington, Delaware and New Haven, Connecticut and some other mostly small airports. Avelo Air also as of today is flying deportation flights for Trump's immigration agencies. And because they are doing that, this is now what it looks like outside everywhere Avelo flies.
- [01:44]
Mary Boyle
To walk the walk.
- [01:46]
Rachel Maddow
If our country is a country that values life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, you know, we all say liberty and justice for all, then we need to act like it. We feel like this is being done in our name. And as far as I'm concerned, this is absolutely wrong. They're doing this illegally. They're doing this without due process. Everybody in this country deserves due process. That was at the protest at again Mesa Gateway Airport in Mesa, Arizona today. This was New Haven, Connecticut today outside Tweed Airport in New Haven where recurring protests against Avelo Airlines for flying these Trump deportation flights. These recurring protests at the Tweed Airport in New Haven just have been getting bigger and bigger every week. Avelo Airlines was scheduled to start its deportation flights for the Trump administration today. And indeed the New York Times reports tonight that Avello had a plane today leave Mesa, Arizona and fly to the airport in Alexandria, Louisiana. And that is quite near those two basically black site immigration prisons that ICE is running in Basile and Jena, Louisiana. State legislatures in New York and Connecticut have basically been having buyer's remorse when it comes to Avelo Airlines. They moved heaven and earth to get Avelo Airlines to operate passenger flights at these small airports in their states. Now state legislatures in both of those places are considering taking away those incentives and taking away those favors from that airline in protest of them doing these deportation flights for Trump in the state of Delaware. Avelo Air is literally the only commercial airline that serves any airport in the whole state of Delaware at the Wilmington airport. But now, because of Avello's decision to fly Trump deportation flights, the governor of Delaware, Matt Meyer, says that he now supports the protests against the airline and he supports the calls to boycott the airline. He says he and his family personally have joined the boycott against Avello. So we're watching that today. We are continuing every week, frankly, every day to see protests against Donald Trump and against his top campaign donor, Elon Musk. We are expecting a really big day of protest on June 14th. That's the day Trump is holding that big military parade in Washington. But even with that kind of red letter day on the calendar a month from now, expecting large protests against Trump that day. Honestly, every weekend, every weekday, there are protests all over. There were protests this weekend at Tesla dealerships in Silver Spring, Maryland and in Rochester, New York, and in Charlotte, North Carolina. The hell the big banner honk for democracy in Sunnyvale, California and in Berkeley, California and in Corta Madera, California, where they put up the big Boycott Tesla sign on the highway overpass. In Austin, Texas this weekend, there were two simultaneous anti Elon Musk protests at two different Aust Austin, Texas tested Tesla dealerships. A lot of the protests this weekend were mom centric for Mother's Day, like this one in Arlington, Virginia, Moms Against Fascism. Also these folks in Rockville, Maryland celebrate Moms mom as in Mothers Oppose Musk. In Madison, South Dakota, people this weekend protested at Dakota State University when Trump's Homeland Security Secretary, Kristi Noem, gave a graduation speech there.
- [05:29]
Brian Schatz
Protesters lined Washington Avenue along the way to the Dakota State Field House, each with signs to express their displeasure with honoring their former governor. Disagreeing with her actions as DHS secretary.
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Rachel Maddow
We don't think that she is somebody that deserves any sort of honor from anybody. She's currently right now violating the Constitution, deporting people to foreign detainment centers without any due process. I think that recently she's shown herself to be a tool of the Trump administration and implementing policies that go against the Constitution of the United States. I don't know if Secretary Noem felt like doing an event in her home state of South Dakota was going to be more of like a welcome home kind of vibe, but that was definitely not the vibe. I mean, looking at the local press in South Dakota this weekend, the headlines you know, Noem's honorary degree sparks protest. Meanwhile, a student she's trying to deport earns a doctorate. Headline Madison, South Dakota residents, Dakota State students protest as Secretary Noem receives honorary degree. With the honorary degree they gave her for during the graduation speech, she essentially was able to collect, you know, another nice costume to wear. But outside, you know, here's this guy, a doctorate in graft I could understand for this person, quote, prison without due process is a concentration camp. On Saturday, there was a big anti Trump protest in Missoula, Montana. On Saturday, also, there was a really big protest in Bethesda, Maryland, at the headquarters of the NIH. Hundreds of people there, including Democratic U.S. senator Angela also Brooks.
- [07:19]
Mary Boyle
I'm calling on Senate Secretary Kennedy to resign.
- [07:24]
David Kessler
We want him to go.
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Rachel Maddow
America's exceptionalism is based on our strength.
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Mary Boyle
As a science powerhouse. And the cuts from at NIH and other places literally are making us sicker.
- [07:37]
Rachel Maddow
On Sunday for Mother's Day, there were anti Trump protests in places like Irvine, California, at City Hall, a big boisterous one in downtown Lawrence, Kansas. I'll tell you, though, that we've been covering these protests for months now. And I sort of feel like, because we've been covering them from for a long time, I feel like you can sort of see themes emerging if you cover this stuff regularly. You can see new types of protests and new catalysts for protests emerge over time. And right now, what I think is emerging is that we're really seeing people all over the country, red states and blue states everywhere, step up more and protest more vociferously over what Trump is doing to immigrants. You may have seen late last week that really disturbing scene in Worcester, Massachusetts. This was Thursday in Worcester. A mother and her daughter both arrested one of her daughters holding a baby, caught up in what just turned out to be a violent scrum in the middle of the street in Worcester, as Trump's masked immigration agents were definitely trying to seem tough, but they really seemed to have no idea what they were doing or how to handle this situation. The whole neighborhood responded when they acted chaotically and when they swooped in on this woman and the children and the baby. And people were just furious on scene, and they have been furious in a sustained way since. And they're furious not just with Trump's federal agents, but also with Worcester police, with local police, for showing up and appearing to help Trump's federal agents as well. After there was this totally out of control scene on the street in Worcester on Thursday. This was the next day. This was Friday. In Worcester, hundreds of people turned out and protested. People protesting on Friday marching to Worcester City hall, demanding answers from their city about why local police didn't protect them and instead joined in. Then over the weekend, Worcester turned out again. Big protest on the town common. Keep your hands off our moms. That was the theme. The name of this protest was Hands Off Worcester Mothers. People again demanding their local authorities answer for not protecting them. You see the sign there? Worcester pd Traitors to democracy. Protesters in Worcester say they're going to be back and in considerable numbers tomorrow, Tuesday for the City Council meeting in Worcester. They say they want answers, they want that local mom back for one. But you're seeing this kind of pushback, this kind of response, kind of emergency response in the moment, and then a sustained angry response after. Everywhere people are being snatched off the street by Trump's agents. I mean, this is what the local news looks like now all over the place.
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Angela Alsobrooks
Lets go to Framingham next, where another protest took place. Dozens of people on the steps of City Hall.
- [10:34]
Rachel Maddow
They were calling out the increased ICE activity in the city and the detention of Daniel Orellana.
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Angela Alsobrooks
Orellana was picked up by ICE on Monday on his way to work, and.
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Rachel Maddow
Reports show that he has no criminal record. Protesters say the community is scared and due process is being ignored. Our neighbors are terrified. People are afraid to go to school, they're afraid to go to work. I would want someone to stand up for me. I live in Framingham. I'm really anxious and hoping that our legislature, both local and state, will step up and come out and stand up for these people like Danielle Orellana, who's been taken off the streets. It's terrifying.
- [11:14]
Angela Alsobrooks
ICE has yet to comment on the arrest.
- [11:18]
Rachel Maddow
Framingham, Massachusetts. There were protests in Portland, Oregon this weekend outside the ICE building in South Portland after the mayor of Newark, New Jersey was arrested at the immigration prison in his city on Friday. There were protests there afterwards, both at the site where he was arrested at this prison, that ICE ISIS operating in Newark. Also protests in response to that arrest in New York today in Newark. There were faith leaders there at that site, leading protestors in prayer. You know, and I will tell you, as insane as it was, that Trump's immigration agents manhandled three members of Congress outside the gates of this facility and arrested the Newark mayor there on Friday. Today, Newark city officials went back there in person back to the gates of that facility again. They once again served notice that that federal ICE facility is not legally operating, according to the city of Newark. So Newark city officials went Back there today serving the same papers again, demanding the same access again. You can arrest the mayor, you can create a violent scrum outside those gates, but Newark is not giving up. And, you know, here's just something that, something to know, something to kind of stick a pin in here. By now, of course, you have seen how chaotic and panicked the scene was at the Newark immigration prison on Thursday. The actions of those federal agents are definitely disturbing in terms of how violent they were, the fact that many of them had their faces covered, the fact that indeed they were in the middle of arresting an elected official and shoving around members of Congress. But you'll admit in looking this, it also kind of looks like amateur hour, doesn't it? I mean, these federal agents really appeared to have no idea what they were doing or how to handle this situation. The agents who carried out this chaotic, shambolic arrest were from HSI Homeland Security Investigations, previously a very, very low profile law enforcement organization. But you now see HSI everywhere in this Trump term, particularly in, like, newsworthily violent moments. And we don't know why Trump is using HSI agents for things like this now and for so many of the arrests and actions that keep making news because of how violent and chaotic they are. But it's just worth paying attention to that and it's, it's worth knowing that if it looks like these HSI agents don't really know what they're doing in situations like this, it might actually be because they really don't know what they're doing. They are not trained for this. This is not what they are supposed to do as a law enforcement organization. A former assistant director at HSI with decades of experience in the agency told us this today. HSI special agents are trained and equipped to be skilled investigators targeting complex schemes employed by sophisticated transnational criminal organizations. Crowd control is not something HSI special agents are routinely trained or equipped to do. Asking them to do so creates an officer safety safety issue as well as raises the potential for personal and professional legal liability for HSI agents. Again, a former senior official at HSI telling us that today. And yeah, definitely I understand the point about an officer safety issue being created by these guys doing stuff that they're not trained to do. But I would also mention a public safety issue, not just an officer safety issue, but a public safety issue, since they keep using agents from this particular agency for clusters like this. I mean, presumably at some point we're going to get members of Congress and senators looking into what appears to be the quite considerable distance between what exactly it is that HSI is doing under the Trump presidency versus what they're actually trained to do under the law. Because I think there's a reason that this particular agency keeps ending up on your local news and on social media and right at the middle of all of the most infamous actions of this administration in American streets. This is not what they are trained for. Why is it that they are the agency that again and again is being tasked with doing it? So we got a lot to get to tonight. This, for example, was tonight on the United States Senate floor. This was Hawaii Senator Brian Schatz.
- [15:50]
Angela Alsobrooks
No president should take a $400 million gift from a foreign country. I shouldn't have to explain why, but it is a high principle literally enshrined in the Constitution because people who we have representing us should know, not think, but know that their representatives are focused on them and this country only, that our loyalties are not divided, that our minds are not wandering elsewhere. The emoluments clause in the Constitution. It's a fancy phrase, but a simple idea. No foreign gifts. If foreign government offers you anything, but especially something close to a half a billion dollars worth, the answer is no. Thank you. End of story. Very simple. In one fell swoop, Trump is selling out one of the most iconic symbols of American power that we have. And what people will now see is the most powerful man on earth flying around in a plane paid for by a foreign government. It's disgusting.
- [17:03]
Rachel Maddow
It's disgusting. It's wildly corrupt. Senator goes on to say, just because they are doing the corruption in plain sight does not make it any less damning or sad or gross. Senator Brian Schottz speaking on the Senate floor tonight. We are now really hitting our stride on the kleptocracy part of what's going on here. While important parts of the federal government that serve the public just collapse under Trump, while Trump's faa, for example, finds that it is no longer capable of keeping air traffic control systems reliably up and running at, say, Newark Airport, at one of the airports serving nation's largest metropolitan area, as Trump's Pentagon has just dropped not one, but two F18 fighter jets into the sea. Just slipped right off the aircraft carrier and oops, that's gone. Nevertheless, in true kleptocratic fashion, the dear leader has his plane. He has just arranged for himself, as Senator Schatz was just talking about there, he has just arranged for himself a gift of a $400 million plane for himself that he wants to use while he's president and Then he plans to keep using it himself after he leaves the presidency, as well as if he's ever planning on leaving the presidency for us, the public. We've got, you know, airline CEOs emailing customers today saying, oh, God, geez, this air traffic control thing, whoo. Please keep flying. We swear we're being as safe as we can. That's what the public is contending with. But, you know, what does Trump care? He's getting his own $400 million personal plane as a gift from a foreign country that he's gonna go do some deals with as President of the United States, heading out today on this big Middle Eastern trip. I mean, for us, the public, we're all dealing with the cancellations and the delays and the reduced number of routes and the panic from the remaining air traffic controllers who have been put in this situation by whatever is going on at Trump's faa. We, the public, are wondering what it meant when these guys insisted on putting in Starlink at the faa. They started inexplicably using equipment from the company run by the president's top campaign donor to supposedly upgrade our air traffic safety systems a few weeks ago without a Norma correcting process. Right after that same donor demanded the resignation of the head of the faa. We're all left wondering, as the FAA is apparently no longer able to reliably keep air traffic control systems running at major airports, should we be worried that they did that right before this all started falling apart? I mean, that's how it's going for us, the flying public. But for him, awesome flying palace he gets to keep so long. Suckers. In the shadow of the plain debacle tonight, that sort of textbook example of how a kleptocracy works, where the guy at the top converts the assets and functions of the nation and its government for his own purposes, and everybody else gets nothing. Like that's how kleptocracy works. In the shadow of that plain debacle still unfolding tonight, we've got another story for you this evening about Trump doing something for himself while apparently making sure that nobody else in the country can get that same thing. We've also got news tonight on Trump's apparently illegal efforts to fire people and shut down parts of the federal government that he doesn't actually control. He is, of course, the head of the executive branch, and that gives him a reasonable amount of power over what happens in the executive branch, but it doesn't give him power over the other branches of government. Right. The other two branches are the courts and the Congress. How can you tell if some part of the government is not part of the executive branch, and instead it's controlled by one of the other branches? Sometimes it's hard. Sometimes it's not that easy to tell, but sometimes it's right there. Sometimes it's in the name. When, for example, it's called the Library of Congress, that's a hint that it's of Congress. It's not the Library of the United States. It's certainly not the Library of the President. Can you imagine? No, it's the Library of Congress. That's a hint that that's part of the whole Congress thing. Trump has still purported to fire the Librarian of Congress, and he's trying to install people as staff beneath that top job as well. Today, some of those people turned up at the Library of Congress and demanded to be let inside. The staff said, no. The staff at the Library of Congress said, no, you don't work here. They called their lawyers and they called the cops. And those officials that Trump had sent over to the Library of Congress to bust in, they did not get in. Trump, in the last several days, has tried to fire the director of the Copyright office, which is housed at the Library of Congress, also the vice chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board, also the commissioners at the Consumer Product Safety Commission. I say he's tried to fire them because for some of these people, it really does not seem like he is legally allowed to fire them. We are going to talk tonight with one of them who is absolutely fighting back, is not going along with it, does not concede that she has been fired at all. And that's kind of the theme at this point, the fight back. Which is understandable, because if you look at the polls, they are not popular. And if you look at their actions, they are not smart. And if you look at the headlines, they are doing things that are flagrantly and obviously corrupt. And every single day, on top of being unpopular, unsmart and obviously corrupt, they are continually doing things that have zero constituency, doing things for which literally no one is in favor except for the proverbial cartoon villain twirling his mustache somewhere, Right? I mean, the headlines just today, Trump administration halts research tools to help babies with heart defects. Who is the constituency for that? Who voted for that? Or this one? Federal purge Guts. Infant death prevention campaign. Alarming doctors. Yeah, who voted for that? Who wants that? Who's the constituency for that? That thing that Trump just did? Today we learned that Trump cut off the funding for the medication used by horses that are ridden by national park park rangers. Who's in favor of that? Seriously? He cut off the funding for toner cartridges for the printers at the Social Security Administration because, yeah, that's waste. That's fraud and abuse. Right. That they can print. This comes after he plans to cut Narcan. Narcan does nothing except keep people alive if they overdose. He's cutting Narcan. This comes after he cuts Meals on Wheels. Who's against Meals on Wheels? It comes after he cuts Head Start preschool. Because who among us didn't think that the preschool kids were the ones who were getting it too good? And making America Great Again was about putting them back a few notches? I mean, honestly, these guys every day are doing things that have zero political constituency, that do nothing other than harm the country and harm the people in this country. Country who are least able to articulate for themselves the pain that train that Trump is causing them every day. They are doing things that have zero political constituency that obviously hurt the country while they are already historically unpopular, making headlines for really radically flagrant corruption and while there are already people in the streets protesting against them every single day of the week in every single state of the country. That is how we are starting the second hundred days of the Donald Trump presidency. Total debacle. Stay with us.
- [25:02]
Brian Schatz
It's conversation, it's perspective. It's the weekend on MSNBC with three new dynamic hosts, Jonathan Capehart, Eugene Daniels and Jackie Alemany. And in the evening, it's the weekend prime time with Eamon Mohadin, Katherine Rampatt, Elise Jordan and Antonia Hilton join them as they offer analysis on the week's most important events and set the agenda for the week ahead. The weekend at 7:00am Eastern and the weekend prime time at 6:00pm Eastern. Saturdays and Sundays on MSNBC. MSNBC Films presents a six part documentary series, David Frost Versus on the next.
- [25:38]
David Kessler
Episode, former President Richard Nixon. But when the president does it, that.
- [25:42]
Brian Schatz
Means that it is is not illegal. Sunday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC.
- [25:51]
Rachel Maddow
So I'm about to talk about something I feel a little oogie talking about because it seems personal. But it turns out the reason I'm going to do it, the reason I feel okay about it actually, is that it's explicitly not personal. In the end, it's about the country. It's about policy. It's about the health of literally tens of millions of Americans. It does start in a kind of personal place. So. So again, slight ugh factor here, but work with me. Here it is. We have had on this show many times before. Former FDA commissioner Dr. David Kessler, he's a big deal. He has served multiple presidents, Democrat and Republican. As I said, former commissioner of the fda. He was most recently a very senior science advisor to President Biden. David Kessler has been the dean of the medical school at Yale and at UC San Francisco. David Kessler, as I said, a very big deal. And as a medical doctor, Dr. Kessler recently looked at the report from President Trump's own annual physical last month. And to him, that report told a story, a good news story that he thought more Americans should know about. This is from a piece that Dr. Kessler wrote for the Atlantic. It has just published in the past few minutes. He says, quote, during his first term, a scan showed signs of plaque buildup in President Trump's coronary arteries, which him at risk of a heart attack. In 2020, his BMI, his body mass index, was just over the threshold for obesity. That combination would have made him a candidate for a GLP1 drug that is a weight loss drug like Ozempic or Wegovy, quote, and Indeed, throughout his 2024 campaign, people speculated that he was taking one. Then last month, Trump's latest physical showed that he had dropped 20 pounds, which moved him from obese to overweight. Trump has never publicly said he is on a GLP1. And when reached for comment, the White House did not address questions about how the President lost the weight. Press Secretary Caroline Levitt said Trump is, quote, in peak physical and mental condition. I'll tell you, we also reached out to the White House for comment. We got that exact same response about what a brilliant specimen of man he is. But Dr. Kessler goes on to say this, quote, the most revealing aspect of the President's medical report was the list of drugs he is taking, which includes a combination that amounts to what doctors call intensive lipid lowering therapy, a treatment usually reserved for patients who are at significant risk of cardiac disease. That drug regimen seems to be working. His ldl, the bad cholesterol, has dropped dramatically in recent years. So what Dr. David Kessler says he sees in President Trump's medical report is a success story. Success against conditions that tens of millions of Americans struggle, struggle with, namely obesity and cardiac disease. And that success that that progress in the President's own health report appears to be largely thanks to medical science. The President is on these two cholesterol lowering drugs, this intensive lipid lowering therapy for people at risk of cardiac disease. That treatment really appears to be working for him. We do not know if the president's documented weight loss is thanks to Ozempic or Wegovy or any similar drug. Certainly no shame if it is any such drug is not listed in his medical report. The White House will not say one way or the other when they are asked. And I know I said this was a little oogie to talk about because this feels personal, but the point of this is not necessarily the president's personal health. The point here is that the President of the United States appears to be improving his own health through access to great medical care and great medical science. That's what he gets. Simultaneously, his administration is doing so much to hurt regular Americans opportunity to achieve those same good health outcomes the same way the National Institutes of Health, the government research agency that produces much of the science for these specific drugs and countless others. Trump has slashed its budget, and nearly $2 billion in research grants there have been canceled. The FDA shepherds drugs to market and make sure they are safe. The FDA is reeling from huge staffing cuts, and the staff that is there can't complete basic tasks because, among other things, their government credit cards have been frozen. Trump and his allies in Congress are currently debating how many hundreds of billions of dollars they're going to cut from Medicaid, which provides health insurance to tens of millions of Americans. And as for those GLP weight loss drugs, that can be a lifesaver for so many people, well, Trump has rescinded a Biden administration proposal to have those drugs covered by Medicare. Even as the White House says, maybe weight loss drugs will get a big price cut. They'll solve it with deals, if you want to believe that. But they're undoing the plan to have them covered by Medicare, which puts at risk the opportunity for tens of millions of Americans to benefit from those kinds of drugs. President Trump is personally benefiting in his own health from the scientific and medical infrastructure the US Government has built up over decades. He is simultaneously in the process of destroying that infrastructure for everyone else. Joining us now is former FDA commissioner Dr. David Kessler. He has a new book that is coming out tomorrow. It's called Diet Drugs and the New Science of Achieving a healthy weight. Dr. David Kessler, congratulations on the book. First, first of all, let me say I brought home the galley when I last saw you. I read it, my partner read it. We then handed it to a neighbor who also wanted to read it. I really appreciate you writing this, particularly given your expertise in this field and so many others. Thank you.
- [31:51]
David Kessler
Thank you for having me, Rachel.
- [31:54]
Rachel Maddow
So, first, let me just ask you if I accurately represented your take on the president's medical report and why you think it's worth understanding in terms of how he is governing, how he is managing health policy in the country.
- [32:09]
David Kessler
You know, weight is such a fraught subject. There's so much stigma attached to it. But it's not about weight. It's really about health. You got the facts exactly right. Let's just go through them. The president had a cardiac scan that showed some plaque buildup and they put him on two lipid lowering drugs. What no one has said about those two lipid lowering drugs, what those are called is intensive lipid lowering therapy. Ezetimide, rosuvastatin. And they're working. His lipids drop dramatically from 143 to 51. That reduces the risk of heart attack. That prolongs life. But the key, as you said, is the science of those drugs was worked out by research funded by the NIH and shepherded by the fda. The president is destroying those institutions that gave birth to the drugs that are benefiting him.
- [33:16]
Rachel Maddow
I think we tend to think of drug development as the province of private companies, of pharmaceutical companies. Can you explain to an audience that may not understand the sort of weight of what you just said? Can you about talk, talk about the federal government's role in researching and creating drugs and getting them to the American people, the part of it that can't happen without the US Government.
- [33:38]
David Kessler
So a drug has to work on a certain target. And while the drug companies will chemically synthesize the drug and do the clinical trials, the identification of that target, the receptor, I mean, that was done by research funded, it was Nobel Prize winning work by Brown and Goldstein. They identified, you know, through NIH funding, because no drug company has that capability. They identified the receptors that the drugs can work on. It was also true for the current weight loss drugs. The GLP1 drugs, were done by, you know, a number of research labs, including, you know, a great research lab up at Harvard, at Mass General Hospital.
- [34:25]
Brian Schatz
Blow.
- [34:28]
Rachel Maddow
When you were last here, Dr. Kessler, you said something that got a very large response from our audience. People continue to ask me about it. You talked about when President Trump himself had Covid during his first term and he was very ill. We learned later just how seriously ill he was. And you talked about his treatment, a very successful treatment at Walter Reed when he received monoclonal antibody infusions. And you, you broke the news on our show that the doctor who made it possible for Trump to get that treatment, which very well could have saved his Life is one of the officials at fda, one of the officials in the federal government who Trump had fired. And it seems like it's following the sort of same lines that you're describing here today. Something which he's benefiting from, which may have indeed saved his life, is something that he's cutting off in terms of the ability for that expertise to continue to benefit not just himself, but the American people. I feel like I'm seeing continuities between those two stories. But I wanted to ask you if you see it that way.
- [35:37]
David Kessler
I think you've, you know, you got it exactly. I was told this weekend that there's 6, 700 recusals today at FDA. That means recusals. You have to submit those when you're looking for jobs. So there is an exodus. That kind of expertise. Those nights that I was on with you when we were facing Covid, we got through those because I was able to rely when I was co leading Operation Warp Speed on a great deal of expertise. The Trump administration is going to need to rely on those expertise. They just haven't figured that out yet. There are going to be moments where they're going to turn around and find no one is there with that kind of expertise. And that should concern all of us.
- [36:29]
Rachel Maddow
Dr. David Kessler, former FDA commissioner and so much else. Long record of service in our government at the highest levels of our health infrastructure. Dr. Kessler's new book is out tomorrow. It's called Diet Drugs and the New Science of Achieving a healthy weight. Dr. Kessler, as always, it's an honor to have you here whenever you can be here. Thanks for being here today tonight.
- [36:48]
David Kessler
Thank you, Rachel.
- [36:50]
Rachel Maddow
All right. More news ahead here tonight. Stay with us.
- [36:54]
Brian Schatz
Introducing the Weeknight on msnbc, join hosts Alicia Menendez, Michael Steele and Simone Sanders Townsend for a spirited conversation challenging each other and our leaders about the biggest issues of the day.
- [37:08]
Rachel Maddow
It's about knowing what you are for, who you are for. That's what politics is about, is engagement. We are going to dive deeper into the legal side of today's breaking news.
- [37:18]
Brian Schatz
The weeknight, Monday through Friday at 7pm Eastern on MSNBC.
- [37:27]
Rachel Maddow
This looks a little bit like a backpack, like when you take camping, but it's actually a way to carry a baby on your back. It's a little baby carrier, a little chair you strap to your back. But the neat thing about this one is it has a little kickstand. So if you got to take the baby off your back and you want to put the baby down for a bit, you could put the carrier on the floor and pop out the kickstand so it sits upright. Cool idea, but that's where things went wrong. Quote recall due to fall hazard, the hinges on the foldable rear kickstand support leg can crack or break with a baby in there. Obviously that is an uncool safety hazard for the aforementioned baby. And so some models of this baby chair that were made in the last two years have been recalled. Recalled because of that problem. Also check out this very nice looking drink cooler. Looks nice, it has wheels. Looks kind of friendly. I don't know, it looks appealing. Maybe I'm just thirsty. But don't be fooled, this one might cut your fingers off. Recall the manufacturer Igloo expands its recall to nearly 1.2 million coolers because of fingertip amputation and crushing hazards. The toe handle can pinch consumers fingertips. Man, you can't put the baby in the thing, you can't put the beer in the thing. It's very stressful. You might want to relax, maybe play some music at home. No. Recall Yamaha recalls AC power adapters for digital pianos and music workstations because they can overheat and ignite, causing burn and fire hazards. Now each of these companies that makes each of these products, they of course issue their own recall notices. But these specific alerts. You see the logo in the upper left corner there? That is the Consumer Product Safety Commission of the United States cpsc. The Consumer Product Safety Commission is an independent agency of the US Federal government and they perform a very basic, very important function of our government. Government. They make sure the stuff we buy won't kill us. They make sure the stuff we buy is safe for us to use. And when it's not safe for us to use, they let us know. Recall. And this is again a very basic function of the government. Right. And it's just also a nonpartisan concept. Right. I think everybody can agree they don't want their beer coolers to cut off their fingers or their electric pianos to burst into flames. Nevertheless, in his infinite wisdom, Donald Trump has just fired most of the leadership at the Consumer Product Safety Commission. There's five commissioners, two Republicans, three Democrats. He just fired all three Democrats. And seriously, you're against the agency that recalls beer coolers that cut off people's fingers? Seriously. But beyond that, firing the commissioners like this is also so pretty obviously illegal. Federal law is explicit that commissioners at this agency can only be removed from their jobs for neglect of duty or malfeasance, which absolutely does not seem to be the case here. But that's why these product safety commissioners who were just fired inexplicably by Trump, they are now fighting back. We're told that in the immediate aftermath of their firings, at least one of the commissioners and his staff tried to just show up at work anyway. Oh, sure, Trump says I'm fired, but Trump doesn't get to fire me. They showed up at their office but were not allowed into the building. All three commissioners say they're planning to challenge their firings in court, and at least one of them says she just has no intention of abiding by her firing at all. As far as she's concerned, she has not been fired and she will not behave as if she has been. Her name is Mary Boyle. She's worked at the CPSC for more than a decade before becoming a commissioner a few years ago. Her term is supposed to extend until this October. But because Commissioner Boyle doesn't think the president had the legal authority to fire her, she says she's not going anywhere. She intends to keep doing her job until her term lawfully expires. No matter what he says she says, quote, until my term as commissioner concludes, I will insist on following these time tested safety principles and I will use my voice to speak out on behalf of safety. Commissioner Boyle joins us here live next. Stay with us. So this was the headline, trump fires Democrats on Consumer Product Safety Commission. And that's the headline, sure, but that really does seem to be illegal. These commissioners are confirmed by the U.S. senate. According to federal law, they can only be removed for neglecting their duty or some kind of malfeasance that hasn't even been alleged here. That's why these commissioners are challenging their firings. They're saying in the meantime, they're going to continue to do their jobs. Joining us now is one of them, Mary Boyle. She's one of the commissioners the president just fired from the Consumer Product Safety Commission. Commissioner Boyle, I really appreciate you taking time to be here tonight. Thank you.
- [42:40]
Mary Boyle
Thank you for having me.
- [42:42]
Rachel Maddow
So I understand the argument that your firing may have been improper or indeed illegal. It seems like the structure of the agency and the structure of your particular position doesn't give the president the option to just fire you for no cause. How do you plan to challenge it and what do you plan to do in the meantime?
- [43:01]
Mary Boyle
That's correct. Our statute is very clear. It says that we can only be removed from office for neglect or malfeasance, as you reported. And I can say categorically there was no neglect or malfeasance. And in fact, the President did not allege anything of that sort. I got a two sentence email from someone at the White House who told me that I was being terminated effectively immediately and thanking me for my service. So the fact that there was absolutely nothing alleged only confirms that this was totally an illegal firing. And so what we plan to do is to challenge this action in court. And there are certainly other cases of a similar nature. And we believe it's important not only to get ourselves reinstated to the positions that we hold and to fulfill our duties, but also because we think it's in the interests of the American people. I really liked how you set up the introduction because that's exactly right. All the types of products. It affects every single American, what we do. And it's 15,000 product categories in your home. And everyone is affected by what we do. And I've been at the agency for 15 years, actually. Before I was a commissioner, I was a civil servant. I only was appointed an appointment political position three years ago by President Biden. I had been the general counsel of the agency and the executive director. And in my entire time at the agency, safety has always been considered nonpartisan. Sure, we've had disagreements that would reflect differences in outlook in political parties, but by and large, mantra from everyone at the agency for as long as I've been there is that safety is nonpartisan and that we would execute our job jobs that way. It was only since January where that has changed. The tenor at the agency has changed, where people were talking about their political affiliations and the election and things that I had never heard at the agency before. And I just don't think that's what the American consumer expects. They have. Their lives are too busy. There's so much going on. They want someone just looking to make sure, as you say, products are safe and that they can go about their busy lives without worrying that their beer cooler is going to cut off their fingers.
- [45:21]
Rachel Maddow
That's exactly right. There's absolutely nothing partisan about wanting to make sure that my toaster isn't going to burn down my house. Mary Boyle, who is a commissioner on the. Who is a commissioner on the Consumer Product Safety Commission, despite President Trump's apparently illegal efforts to fire you, Commissioner Boyle, I know this is going to be, I imagine, a stressful fight and a difficult time. Thank you for helping us understand it tonight and good luck to you.
- [45:46]
Mary Boyle
Thank you so much.
- [45:48]
Rachel Maddow
All right, we'll be right back. Stay with us. All right, that's going to do it for me tonight. I'll see you again next Monday at 9:00pm Eastern here on MSNBC. Before I go, a reminder that we here at the Rachel Maddow show have a newsletter, and you can receive it if you'd like to. It's free. It just gives you all sorts of updates and info on news that you've seen here on the show. You can sign up for it using the QR code that's on your screen right now, or you can just go directly to msnbc.com, like I said, it's free, no strings attached. We just email it to you if you'd like to receive it, and that's it.
- [46:26]
Brian Schatz
MSNBC's Jen Psaki, host of the Briefing.
- [46:29]
Rachel Maddow
We've never experienced a moment like this in our country, and it leaves us all with a choice. Are we going to speak out or are we going to be pressured into silence? I've worked for presidents. I've faced the tough questions from the press and even threats from the Kremlin. And if there's one thing, one thing I've learned is that you can't cower to bullies. You don't need to be hopeless. We have our voices, and I will continue using mine.
- [46:50]
Brian Schatz
The Briefing with Jen Psaki Tuesday through Friday at 9:00pm Eastern on MSNBC.