The Rachman Review: "How should Canada react to Trump’s threats?"
Date: March 6, 2025
Host: Gideon Rachman (Financial Times Chief Foreign Affairs Commentator)
Guest: Chrystia Freeland (Former Deputy Prime Minister of Canada; Leadership Candidate, Liberal Party)
Episode Overview
This episode focuses on the escalating tensions between Canada and the United States under a renewed Trump presidency. The discussion centers around proposed U.S. tariffs on Canada and persistent rhetoric from Donald Trump suggesting Canada should become America's "51st state." Chrystia Freeland, a key Canadian political figure running for Liberal Party leadership, joins Gideon Rachman to examine how Canada should respond to these unprecedented threats—balancing firmness and unity with strategic negotiation.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Canada’s Response to American Aggression
- Retaliatory Strategy
- Freeland stresses the importance of smart, targeted retaliatory tariffs—designed to inflict maximum political/economic pain on the U.S., while minimizing self-harm.
- She argues this approach can create internal pressure within the U.S. to reconsider policies.
- Quote:
"If you do need to use retaliatory tariffs...be smart and surgical about it and...cause maximum pain to your adversary while doing minimal harm to your own people and your own economy."
— Chrystia Freeland [01:41]
2. Negotiating With Trump
-
Critical Yet Possible
- Despite erratic and shifting Trump demands—including "trumped up" grievances like fentanyl exports—Freeland insists negotiation is both possible and necessary.
- She recalls the previous renegotiation of NAFTA, which she believes resulted in a stronger deal for Canada.
- Quote:
“A lot of harsh words were exchanged...but at the end of the day, we got to a renegotiated trade deal...from Canada's standpoint, was even better than the original NAFTA.”
— Chrystia Freeland [02:47]
-
On Trump’s Rhetoric
- Freeland calls out Trump’s issues as "flimsiest of pretexts," flipping from one grievance to another.
- She addresses the "51st state" assertion head-on, firmly rejecting it.
- Quote:
"Our sovereignty is not negotiable, and Canadians are incredibly united and clear about that."
— Chrystia Freeland [04:28]
3. The Threat to Canadian Sovereignty
- Public Reaction
- Freeland describes a shift in Canadian public mood—initial fear and hurt have given way to unity and determination.
- Canadian strengths are highlighted: energy, agriculture, manufacturing, and technology sectors.
- Freeland underscores the asymmetry of resolve: Canada is more invested in the outcome, making Canadians more prepared to endure the costs.
- Quote:
“We are absolutely conscious that the United States is bigger and more powerful...but we don’t minimize our own strength either.”
— Chrystia Freeland [05:21] - Quote:
“For Canadians, we get that literally everything is at stake here...I really do not think your regular American person thinks, wow, I’m prepared to suffer quite a bit to show those Canadians.”
— Chrystia Freeland [07:39]
4. Political Unity in Canada
-
National Cohesion
- Despite internal political transition (Trudeau’s resignation, pending elections), Freeland affirms that all major political actors support a "Team Canada" approach. Strong unity is expected to persist even through the election cycle.
- Quote:
“This is one issue where we do have very, very strong national unity...All of the leadership candidates have said, we support the Team Canada approach.”
— Chrystia Freeland [09:03]
-
Electoral Positioning
- Freeland outlines why her leadership is best suited for this moment, referencing her previous negotiation successes and coalition-building experience with provincial and international partners.
5. Economic Interdependency—and Leverage
- Trade Dependency Discussion
- Rachman notes the U.S. is far less dependent on Canadian trade than vice versa (75% of Canadian exports go to the U.S.), suggesting an ultimate vulnerability for Canada.
- Freeland counters with the significant U.S. reliance on Canadian resources and past examples where targeted Canadian retaliation led to the lifting of U.S. tariffs.
- Quote:
“Canada, uniquely in the world, actually does have economic leverage over the United States. We are the largest export market for the U.S. — larger than China, Japan, the UK, and France combined. And we will use that strength...”
— Chrystia Freeland [13:45]
6. Preparing for Tough Times—But Seeking Off-Ramps
- Acknowledgement of Economic Pain
- Freeland concedes that tough times are possible but emphasizes continuous diplomacy and making off-ramps clearly available to the U.S. and its citizens.
- The hope is that internal U.S. pressure—businesses, consumers, markets—will incentivize a more reasonable U.S. stance.
- Quote:
“Part of being smart is constantly offer off ramps, constantly make clear...this doesn’t need to be happening. You don’t need to be paying more for gas...for your groceries...lose your job...”
— Chrystia Freeland [15:17]
7. Global Implications and the Western Alliance
- Impact on Rules-Based Order
- Rachman asks what it means for NATO when two key allies enter economic conflict.
- Freeland sees this as a “hinge moment”—potentially undermining not just economic agreements but also military alliances and the post–World War II order.
- Freeland proposes a summit with leaders from Mexico, Denmark, Panama, E.U., and NATO to reaffirm the international rules-based order and collective defense of sovereignty.
- Quote:
“This is a moment when the whole rules based international order...is really directly being attacked. ...This action by the United States against a NATO and NORAD ally does call into question the validity of military alliances.”
— Chrystia Freeland [17:54]
8. Comparisons to Ukraine
- Sovereignty Under Threat
- Rachman draws a parallel between current Canadian-American conflict and Ukraine’s struggle against Russia, with clear caveats.
- Freeland is careful not to equate the situations given the violence and existential threat faced by Ukraine. She emphasizes respect and gratitude for the Ukrainians’ fight for democracy.
- Quote:
"I am inspired by the Ukrainians. I think all freedom loving people in the world should be...That is a truly pivotal battlefield for us all."
— Chrystia Freeland [20:44]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Trump’s “51st state” rhetoric:
"I have not experienced a feeling of such intense and widely shared patriotism in Canada, probably in my life...We are definitely not becoming the 51st state."
— Chrystia Freeland [04:28] -
On Trump’s view of Freeland:
"During the NAFTA negotiations, he used to call me the killer. I thought he meant that positively."
— Chrystia Freeland [12:47] -
On U.S. and Canadian interdependence:
"We are one of the few countries in the world that can say we are an energy superpower, an agricultural powerhouse, a manufacturer, and a technology leader—all at once."
— Chrystia Freeland [05:21]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 01:41 — Freeland on retaliatory tariffs and smart strategy
- 02:47 — Negotiating with Trump, NAFTA renegotiation insights
- 04:28 — Response to 51st state rhetoric and Canadian unity
- 05:21 – 08:32 — Canadian strengths, emotional trajectory, and asymmetry of resolve
- 09:03 – 12:03 — Domestic political unity and electoral stakes
- 13:45 — Economic leverage and lessons from steel/aluminum tariffs
- 15:17 — Preparing for hardships, keeping diplomatic off-ramps open
- 17:54 — Impact on international order, proposal for an allied summit
- 20:44 — Ukraine comparison, inspiration, and support
Tone and Style
Both Rachman and Freeland remain analytical yet passionate, balancing realism (about risks and difficulties) with resolve and optimism for Canada’s ability to stand up to U.S. pressure. Freeland’s tone is alternately firm, patriotic, and reflective—determined not to cede ground on sovereignty but pragmatic about diplomacy and coalition-building.
Summary
Chrystia Freeland articulates a robust, united, and pragmatic Canadian stance toward mounting U.S. threats under Trump. She rejects all notions of reduced sovereignty, outlines Canada’s potential for strategic leverage, and expresses confidence in both national unity and international partnership. The episode underscores the broader stakes: not just for Canada-U.S. relations, but also for the international rules-based order, with a call for likeminded alliances to stand together in defense against destabilizing populism and nationalism.
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