Gideon talks to Lloyd Austin, who served as US defence secretary under the Biden administration, about the need to adapt to new forms of warfare, accusations that he presided over a ‘woke military’ and how he headed off a nuclear threat from Russia in the early days of the Ukraine conflict. Clip: AP

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Presented by Gideon Rachman. Produced by Fiona Symon. Sound design is by Breen Turner.

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