The Radio Free Hillsdale Hour

Episode Title: Lessons Learned from the Vietnam War
Date: September 5, 2025
Host: Scott Bertram
Featured Guest: Dr. Mark Moyer (William P. Harris Chair of Military History, Hillsdale College)

Episode Overview

This episode marks fifty years since the fall of Saigon with a deep dive into the enduring lessons of the Vietnam War and its profound impact on U.S. foreign policy, civil-military relations, public perception, and global alliances. Host Scott Bertram interviews Dr. Mark Moyer, a leading historian of Vietnam, author of Triumph Forsaken and Triumph Regained, to examine how Vietnam has shaped the thinking of American leaders and citizens over five decades. The conversation explores everything from tactical changes within the military to philosophical questions about America’s self-conception and its credibility on the world stage.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Core Lesson of Vietnam: Projecting Strength

[01:44–02:36]

• Dr. Moyer emphasizes that “the most important” lesson is the necessity for the U.S. to project strength:

  “We often get into wars because we end up trying too hard for peace and we don't convince our enemies that we really are going to fight when push comes to shove.”
  — Dr. Mark Moyer [01:21]

• Over-eagerness to avoid escalation or to end wars has historically emboldened adversaries.

2. Shift in Use of Military Force

[02:36–04:19]

• Post-Vietnam, leaders have been more cautious, particularly about the deployment of ground troops and engagement in prolonged conflicts.
• The public expects wars to be winnable and brief, influencing presidential rhetoric and military doctrine.
• However, as recent history in Afghanistan shows, these lessons are not always easy to apply:

  “We never quite got to grips with the fact that there was a Pakistan next door that would allow people to keep sending troops there and to make this go on and on.”
  — Dr. Mark Moyer [03:45]

3. Communicating War and Public Opinion

[04:19–06:09]

• Vietnam’s lesson: Presidents must persuasively and persistently “sell” wars to the public to maintain support.

• Lyndon Johnson’s failure in this regard – fearing distraction from his domestic agenda – damaged homefront unity.

• Nixon was more adept at rallying support, but much varies by presidential leadership style.

  “If you are going to fight a war, you probably want to make it very clear to the American people what you’re doing and remind them repeatedly... If the government’s ignoring them... that creates a lot of problems.”
  — Dr. Mark Moyer [05:38]

4. Rebalancing Executive and Congressional War Powers

[06:09–08:18]

• Watergate and Vietnam together weakened the presidency, empowering Congress with tools like the War Powers Act.

• Tension now between Congressional oversight and executive branch autonomy — a pendulum that continues to swing.

  “Congress is further weakening executive power, really threatening the separation of powers.”
  — Dr. Mark Moyer [06:48]

• Recent presidents have tested these boundaries (e.g., Obama with Libya).

5. Effect on U.S. Global Credibility and Alliances

[08:18–10:03]

• The aftermath of Vietnam did erode U.S. reliability in the eyes of allies, especially those in Asia.
• The "domino theory" critics are contrasted with local perspectives:

  “The Thais were saying, well, if you put all this effort in Vietnam, then you pulled out... you're going to do the same thing to us, so we're not going to trust you anymore.”
  — Dr. Mark Moyer [09:21]

• Restoration of allies’ confidence only begins with the Reagan administration.

6. The "Vietnam Syndrome" and Overcorrection

[10:03–11:28]

• Both left and right internalized lessons: the left became wary of all foreign interventions, the right insisted on clear, winnable objectives only.
• The phrase “another Vietnam” often misused; each conflict is unique.

7. Positive Military Changes and Counterinsurgency

[11:28–13:03]

• Lessons about counterinsurgency learned—but only revived when the U.S. faced asymmetric warfare in Iraq and Afghanistan decades later.
• Military adapted press strategy, war aims, and approach to winning decisively.

  “The military, certainly, in terms of strategy, has been more focused on how do we make sure that we win decisively.”
  — Dr. Mark Moyer [12:23]

8. The Lasting Impact on Policy and Recent Wars

[13:03–14:39]

• Disputes over the root of counterinsurgency: Is it about having the right tactics or the right leaders?
• U.S. repeated some Vietnam errors in Iraq and Afghanistan, particularly overestimating the power of formulas over genuine leadership on the ground.

  “You can't really execute a playbook very well if you don't have good coaches and good players.”
  — Dr. Mark Moyer [13:56]

9. Vietnam’s Place in American Memory and Education

[14:39–17:15]

• Vietnam is central to political and academic narratives about America’s past, often shaping a negative or pessimistic self-image.
• Dr. Moyer strives to correct misconceptions and present Vietnam as a noble aim that went astray:

  “If you interpret Vietnam the way they do, this shows that the United States is this bungling, racist, violent nation. And so for them, Vietnam’s Exhibit 1 as to what's wrong with the United States… I don't think it's what people say it was. In many ways, it was a noble crusade that went awry.”
  — Dr. Mark Moyer [15:41]

• Pop culture (movies like Platoon and Full Metal Jacket) have faded in the memories of today’s students, requiring renewed educational focus.

10. Vietnam at 50 Conference (Context and Content)

[17:15–19:03]

• Hillsdale College hosted a conference with top “revisionist” Vietnam historians challenging the orthodox, negative view of the war.
• Presenters included James Wilbanks, Jay Veith, John Del Vecchio, and Hillsdale’s own Bill McClay, along with a panel of veterans.
• Recordings available on the Hillsdale College Freedom Library.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “…if you are going to fight a war, you probably want to make it very clear to the American people what you're doing and remind them repeatedly of this.”
  — Dr. Mark Moyer [05:02]

• “Congress is further weakening executive power, really threatening ... the separation of powers.”
  — Dr. Mark Moyer [06:48]

• “The left took…we need to stay out of these foreign military interventions. The right took away…we shouldn't do these military inventions unless we're going in to win.”
  — Dr. Mark Moyer [10:23]

• “Vietnam is…Exhibit 1 as to what's wrong with the United States. And so if you really want to understand your nation, you need to understand Vietnam…”
  — Dr. Mark Moyer [15:49]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Projecting Strength & Dangers of Over-Caution: [01:44–02:36]
• Changes in Military Doctrine Post-Vietnam: [02:36–04:19]
• Selling War to the Public: [04:19–06:09]
• Congressional vs. Executive Power: [06:09–08:18]
• Damage to Global Alliances: [08:18–10:03]
• Overcorrecting & "Vietnam Syndrome": [10:03–11:28]
• Lessons for Counterinsurgency: [11:28–13:03]
• Vietnam’s Long-Term Influence: [13:03–14:39]
• Teaching Vietnam, Setting the Historical Record: [14:39–17:15]
• Description of “Vietnam at 50” Conference: [17:15–19:03]

Conclusion

Through this reflective episode, Dr. Mark Moyer and Scott Bertram illuminate how the Vietnam War left lasting imprints not only on U.S. military practice and foreign policy but also on public memory, the American psyche, and the country’s role as a global leader. The lessons remain vital as America continues to grapple with the balance between caution and resolve on the world stage, and as new generations seek to understand what Vietnam really means for the nation’s past, present, and future.

For full lectures from the Vietnam at 50 Conference, visit the Hillsdale College Freedom Library online.