The Radio Free Hillsdale Hour
Episode: "Mob Violence and Threats to Our Republic"
Date: February 6, 2026
Host: Scott Bertram

Episode Overview

This episode explores the perils of mob violence and its impact on the foundations of republican government. Dr. Sean Riley, Director of Educational Programs and Teaching Fellow at Hillsdale in D.C., joins to discuss the historical and philosophical context of mob rule, its threat to political order, and how civic institutions and personal virtue can help safeguard the republic. The second half of the episode features Dr. Christina Lambert on T.S. Eliot’s Four Quartets, focusing on its Christian themes, structure, and lasting poetic challenges.

Segment 1: Mob Violence and Republican Government

Guest: Dr. Sean Riley
Timestamps: [01:31] – [22:13]

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Mob Violence ([01:31]–[03:32])

• Mob violence is distinguished from protest and civil disobedience by its use of unconstrained violence, arising from the irrational or thumotic parts of the soul.
• Quote:
  "Mob violence is a different kind of violence in that it is political violence that's not directed by reason, but by what the ancients might have called thumos... it becomes quickly chaotic, quickly disordered, and as a result, quickly becomes unjust."
  — Dr. Sean Riley [02:40]

2. The Founders’ Fears and Elite Responsibility ([03:32]–[05:32])

• The Founders, informed by classical thought, were acutely aware of the dangers of mob violence, seeing it as a perennial threat.
• Historically, elites served as a check on disorder; today, Riley argues, some elites enable or ignore such violence for their own interests.
• Quote:
  "You have elites that, instead of being invested in the order as it stands, seem more interested in promoting or at least ignoring different kinds of political violence as it goes on because their interests are elsewhere."
  — Dr. Sean Riley [04:22]

3. Lessons from Shays’ and Whiskey Rebellions ([05:32]–[07:15])

• The Founders responded decisively to early American rebellions, understanding that disorder, left unchecked, can spiral.
• Contrasts between historical and current responses to unrest are highlighted.
• Quote:
  "There was no sort of hemming and hawing about, well, we should just, as we recently heard, give them space to destroy or something like this, as we sometimes hear our elites say today."
  — Dr. Sean Riley [06:16]

4. Classical Thought and the Mixed Regime ([07:15]–[10:58])

• Plato and Aristotle’s skepticism towards direct democracy informed the Founders’ preference for a mixed regime (elements of aristocracy, democracy, monarchy).
• The American system was crafted with these philosophical lessons in mind to avoid tyranny and mob rule.
• Quote:
  "The regime should also aim for the middle, and that's where kind of virtue resides. So the founders, looking at this... affected a mixed regime."
  — Dr. Sean Riley [09:43]

5. Political Order & Public-Spiritedness in Polarized Times ([10:58]–[13:53])

• Civic health relies on self-rule and public-spiritedness, which are undermined by hyperpolarization and the immediacy of social media.
• Madison’s hope that passions would die out slowly no longer applies; technology heightens and speeds up unrest.
• Quote:
  "It's really hard, right, for citizens now to be grounded in that kind of self-rule and public spiritedness that the founders really relied on."
  — Dr. Sean Riley [12:18]

6. The Role (and Failure) of Institutions ([13:53]–[18:02])

• Schools, media, and political parties often stoke passions rather than cultivate self-control and civic virtue.
• The classical education movement offers hope by foregrounding self-understanding and virtue.
• Quote:
  "The problem is, is that our schools largely fail to help children become true adults. But the classical school movement is a hopeful sign that we can get there."
  — Dr. Sean Riley [16:35]

7. Constructive Disagreement Without Dehumanization ([18:02]–[19:43])

• Institutions mediate passions and help prevent dehumanization and violence by providing agency and a sense of voice.

8. Civic Foundations: Family and Religion ([19:43]–[22:13])

• Civic health grows from the family unit and religious engagement; both provide practice in self-governance and connection to transcendent values.
• Quote:
  "The place to start is... the family and religion. People are lonely... being married actually makes a huge difference here... it gives people a kind of agency and it trains them for these higher, higher things."
  — Dr. Sean Riley [19:56]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Violence changes the equation... when we add the mob part, what we're talking about is violence that is unconstrained by reason." – Dr. Sean Riley [02:10]
• "Disorder is again a perennial possibility within politics." – Dr. Sean Riley [09:02]
• "Schools, probably first and foremost, is where this has to begin." – Dr. Sean Riley [15:28]
• "Institutions help us to channel our individual selves into this broader common project, but only if they are functioning as they should." – Dr. Sean Riley [17:40]

Segment 2: T.S. Eliot’s Four Quartets

Guest: Dr. Christina Lambert
Timestamps: [25:23] – [45:05]

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Life and Works After Conversion ([25:46]–[27:47])

• Eliot’s Christian faith influenced works such as the Ariel Poems, Murder in the Cathedral, and The Four Quartets, making high art accessible to common experience.

2. The Difficulty and Purpose of Christian Poetry ([27:47]–[28:54])

• Conversion did not make Eliot’s poetry simple; the journey of faith is mirrored in poetic difficulty.
• Quote:
  "He describes [conversion] as a long journey on foot. The difficulty of his poetry reflects that he didn't wake up a Christian and find the world no longer looked like the Wasteland."
  — Dr. Christina Lambert [28:04]

3. Comparing The Waste Land and Four Quartets ([28:41]–[30:58])

• Both use fragmentary structure and address real places.
• Four Quartets binds its fragments into a unifying, incarnational pattern, offering hope of unity through difficulty.

4. Unity and Structure of the Quartets ([31:10]–[33:28])

• Each poem explores how to live faithfully in time, structured in five parallel sections: composition of place, commentary, journey into darkness, lyric/prayer, and recapitulation.

5. Fresh Forms for Ancient Orthodoxy ([33:28]–[34:52])

• Eliot creates new images for ancient truths. For example, Christ as a wounded surgeon—grotesque, earthy, but redemptive.
• Quote:
  "It's the bleeding hands of this surgeon, who is Christ, that gives him the credentials to do the healing work he is rendering on this patient."
  — Dr. Christina Lambert [34:36]

6. Time and Tradition ([35:04]–[37:06])

• The poems urge readers to build new things in the present from the materials of tradition, rather than longing for a lost past.

7. The Process of Sanctification ([37:06]–[39:10])

• Sanctification is depicted as difficult surrender: giving up even good things like hope and love if they are misdirected, preparing to encounter grace.
• Quote:
  "Wait without hope, for hope would be hope for the wrong thing. Wait without love, for love would be love of the wrong thing."
  — (Eliot, quoted by Dr. Christina Lambert) [38:13]

8. The Musicality and Meditation of the Quartets ([39:10]–[40:21])

• Quartets echo sonata form and are designed for reading aloud to appreciate their rhythm and resonance.

9. Richness of Intertext and Interpretation ([40:21]–[42:13])

• Knowing Christian mysticism or Dante aids appreciation, but Eliot resists being “solved” by mere background knowledge.

10. Reading Strategies ([42:13]–[44:53])

• Engage deeply, return to favorite lines, and reread for richer understanding over time.
• Quote:
  "Let the poetry wash over you and pick a favorite line and hold on to that. Even if you don't understand what's happening in the entirety... you'll find a line."
  — Dr. Christina Lambert [39:46]

Notable Quotes & Moments

• "Poetry always demands our full attention. You can't just look for what is said because how it is said changes its meaning." – Dr. Christina Lambert [41:29]
• "Each venture is a new beginning... only the trying. The rest is not our business." – (Eliot, quoted by Dr. Lambert) [43:32]

Episode Highlights by Timestamp

• [01:31]: What is mob violence and why is it different from protest?
• [05:52]: Lessons from early American rebellions.
• [07:30]: How Plato and Aristotle influenced the American Founders’ fears of mob rule.
• [13:53]: Are today’s institutions fueling the problem or part of the solution?
• [19:56]: Why family and religion are pivotal foundations for self-governance.
• [25:46]: The impact of Eliot’s Christian faith on his poetry.
• [33:28]: Eliot’s poetic depiction of Christ as a wounded surgeon.
• [35:04]: How the Four Quartets address tradition, time, and the present.
• [42:26]: The moving passage from East Coker on the struggle to use language.

Conclusion

Dr. Sean Riley offers a historically grounded and philosophically rich account of the dangers posed by mob violence to republican self-government, highlighting the need for functioning civic institutions and renewed personal virtue starting with the family and religion. Dr. Christina Lambert provides a window into the complexity and hope of Eliot’s Four Quartets, urging an immersive, patient, and attentive approach to poetry as a reflection of spiritual journey.

For further reading:

• Dr. Riley's essay, "Mob Violence is Fatal to Republican Government" at AmericanMind.org
• Four Quartets, T.S. Eliot

Host: Scott Bertram
Listen: The Radio Free Hillsdale Hour via podcast.hillsdale.edu or your preferred platform