The Radio Free Hillsdale Hour

Episode: The Ambition of American Art
Host: Scott Bertram
Date: April 11, 2025

Overview

This episode explores two main themes:

1. The Shape of American Governance – Through excerpts from Charlie Kirk’s recent National Leadership Seminar lecture, the episode examines the battle over the “administrative state,” presidential authority, and the stakes of a potential Trump second term.
2. The Identity and Ambition of American Art – In conversation with Dr. Christina Lamb Chekolova, an assistant professor of art at Hillsdale College, the episode dives into what defines American art, its cultural influences, and how it both shapes and is shaped by American identity.
   Additionally, Dr. Ellen Condit reflects on the enduring value and beauty of memorization in education.

Part 1: Charlie Kirk on the Administrative State and Trump’s Second Term

Key Topics and Insights

The Fourth Branch of Government: The Administrative State

Timestamps: 01:31–06:53

• Kirk questions the classic understanding of only three branches of American government, introducing the idea of a powerful, “invisible, unelected” fourth: the administrative or “deep” state.
• He references Dr. Larry Arnn (Hillsdale College President) on the rise and expansion of this bureaucracy since Woodrow Wilson.
• Quote:
  • “What’s been grown like a cancer over the last hundred years is this fourth branch of government.” – Charlie Kirk (03:27)

Who is Sovereign?

Timestamps: 04:48–06:53

• Kirk challenges the near-inviolability of federal workers, contrasting their status with typical employees in the private sector.
• Argues that federal employees should “work for us” – the people – and laments a political culture where elected presidents cannot easily make administrative changes.
• Quote:
  • “They work for us because our document starts morally clear. We, the people of the United States…” – Charlie Kirk (05:24)

The Opportunity for True Change

Timestamps: 07:02–08:29

• Claims a unique moment has arrived to reverse the power of the administrative state, citing Supreme Court signals in recent decisions (Chevron Deference, EPA).
• Asserts real change will come not just through an election but by “a free citizenry demanding it.”
• Quote:
  • “For the first time, we can reverse it. We can go back to where we came from.” – Charlie Kirk (07:51)

The Stakes of a Trump Second Term

Timestamps: 08:37–09:56

• Frames Trump’s battle against the administrative state in existential terms for American freedom and republican self-government.
• Emphasizes that this is “way bigger than Trump,” invoking high stakes and referencing America as “the last best hope.”
• Quote:
  • “That’s the true revolution that’s occurring… Say subject no more citizen, because we have lived as subjects for the last couple of years, whether we realize that or not...” – Charlie Kirk (08:40)
  • “Europe is not going to save a free society. Europe is gone... If it’s not us, it’s nobody.” – Charlie Kirk (09:25)

Part 2: American Art’s Ambition and Identity with Dr. Christina Lamb Chekolova

Defining American Art

Timestamps: 12:51–16:02

• Chekolova admits the difficulty in defining American art, given its range from Native American traditions to contemporary practices.
• She and her students found “ambition” the most distinctive, unifying quality: American artists strive for novelty, impact, and direct communication with the public, lacking the centuries-old patronage structures of Europe.
• Quote:
  • “If there is one way we can define American art, certainly ambition is one of those words that we all agreed upon…” – Christina Lamb Chekolova (13:50)

Sources and Cultural Influences

Timestamps: 16:11–19:33

• American art is rooted in Western tradition but deeply shaped by:
  • The American landscape (especially evident in landscape painting and Native American art)
  • European influences (Greco-Roman—see Jefferson’s architecture)
  • The necessity of appealing directly to a diverse public, rather than courts or churches
• Quote:
  • “Generally it’s the landscape. But also certainly European influence is very, very strong.” – Christina Lamb Chekolova (18:41)

Art as Exploration and Reinforcement of American Identity

Timestamps: 19:55–24:27

• Early American portraits (e.g., Paul Revere by John Singleton Copley) diverged from European conventions, elevating self-made accomplishment and work ethic over inherited status.
• Historical paintings (Benjamin West’s unfinished “Treaty of Paris”) reinforced the legitimacy and distinctiveness of American nationhood.
• Quotes:
  • “It’s all about this idea that Americans are hard working people who are self made individuals.” – Christina Lamb Chekolova (20:26)
  • “It’s unfinished. And it’s all about that point about American identity as being one that’s, you know, self made, proud of your accomplishments.” (Benjamin West painting) – Christina Lamb Chekolova (23:47)

International Reception and American Art Abroad

Timestamps: 24:39–28:01

• Early patriotic art sought to shift foreign views of America from “rebellious colonists” to civilized, intellectual founders (“Declaration of Independence” by Trumbull).
• Nineteenth-century African American artists like Edmonia Lewis and Henry O. Tanner found both more opportunity and different challenges abroad, shaping perceptions of American talent and diversity.
• Quote:
  • “Works of art like that did intend to shape European audiences about… the American experiment as being one of the greatest intellectual endeavors of the time…” – Christina Lamb Chekolova (25:21)

Emerging Voices and the Future of American Art

Timestamps: 28:26–30:16

• The present art world’s “globalism” challenges a singular definition of American art.
• Contemporary artists like Jeff Koons push boundaries, commercialism, and nostalgia, stimulating debate over what art is in the postmodern era.
• Quote:
  • “He really tries to think about art that makes the viewer unite visually and psychologically… His art is pioneering in that way, but also for its commercialism.” – Christina Lamb Chekolova (29:19)
  • “I think that’s the current debate in the modern art world is, well, what is art at all?” – Christina Lamb Chekolova (30:06)

Part 3: Dr. Ellen Condit on the Beauty and Value of Memorization

Why Memorize in the Digital Age?

Timestamps: 32:51–36:01

• Memorization, once a foundational practice, is now sometimes seen as “stultifying”—but Dr. Condit argues that knowing something “by heart” means integrating it into the self, in a way that shapes thought and character.
• Quote:
  • “Once it’s written, written on the heart, in the heart, there’s something, there’s something different that happens. There’s a kind of ownership that happens of the words.” – Dr. Ellen Condit (33:34)

Educational and Cultural Benefits

Timestamps: 36:01–38:20

• Memorization enables shared reference points, quick access to beautiful or profound lines, and helps form habits of thinking and taste.
• It builds school culture and even broader communal culture—shared lines become touchstones and shorthand.

Developing Discipline and Confidence

Timestamps: 39:55–41:18

• The practice builds self-discipline and reveals the value of incremental learning.
• Quote:
  • “This is how we learn all things. Take a little bit at a time, work on it one piece at a time instead of trying to take in the whole thing all at once.” – Dr. Ellen Condit (41:05)

The Beauty and Lifelong Resonance of Memorized Art

Timestamps: 42:48–44:39

• The internalization of beauty allows for reflection, further understanding, and maturation—the meaning of memorized poems or texts grows as one’s life experience grows.
• Quote:
  • “There is something beautiful in being able to contain that within ourselves and not have to rely on something external…” – Dr. Ellen Condit (43:23)

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “If there is one way we can define American art, certainly ambition is one of those words that we all agreed upon…”
  – Dr. Christina Lamb Chekolova (13:50)

• “That’s the true revolution that’s occurring, is that we are taking the bold and courageous move that is going to put a lot of people’s lives… at risk to say subject no more citizen…”
  – Charlie Kirk (08:40)

• “They work for us because our document starts morally clear. We, the people of The United States…”
  – Charlie Kirk (05:24)

• “Once it’s written, written on the heart, in the heart, there’s something, there’s something different that happens. There’s a kind of ownership that happens of the words.”
  – Dr. Ellen Condit (33:34)

• “The current debate in the modern art world is, well, what is art at all?”
  – Dr. Christina Lamb Chekolova (30:06)

Episode Structure (Timestamps)

• 00:25–09:56: Charlie Kirk’s lecture excerpts (origins and power of the administrative state, Trump’s goals)
• 12:51–30:16: Dr. Christina Lamb Chekolova on American art’s definition, history, identity, and future
• 32:51–45:53: Dr. Ellen Condit on the defense and value of memorization

Tone & Style

The conversations were reflective, rooted in the liberal arts tradition, and interwoven with both practical and philosophical insights. Speakers balanced appreciation for history and tradition with an eye toward critical examination and contemporary relevance—a core trait of the Hillsdale educational ethos.

This episode, “The Ambition of American Art,” lives up to its name by interrogating not only what makes art American, but what makes governance and education distinctly (and ambitiously) American. Whether you enjoy probing debates over the nature of the administrative state, the evolving ambitions of American artists, or the quiet strength of memorization, this episode offers a lively and illuminating discourse.