The Radio Free Hillsdale Hour

Episode Title: The Challenge of Americanization
Date: September 26, 2025
Host: Scott Bertram
Guests: Mark Krikorian (Center for Immigration Studies), Dr. Christina Lambert (English Department, Hillsdale College), Dr. John Seifert (Computer Science Department, Hillsdale College)

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Scott Bertram explores three major topics rooted in the liberal arts tradition at Hillsdale College:

1. The Challenge of Americanization – A discussion with Mark Krikorian about his essay on the changing nature of assimilation in America and the cultural and institutional shifts affecting it.
2. The Life and Work of T.S. Eliot – Dr. Christina Lambert offers insights into the formative influences and literary impact of the poet T.S. Eliot.
3. Reviving Computer Science at Hillsdale – Dr. John Seifert describes his philosophy of teaching computer science as a creative discipline and the process of rebuilding the program at Hillsdale.

Segment 1: The Challenge of Americanization

Guest: Mark Krikorian (Executive Director, Center for Immigration Studies)
Timestamps: 00:38–17:06

Main Discussion Points & Insights

• The Core Issue: Not Immigrants, But America Itself (01:35)

  • Krikorian argues America's "problem isn't so much immigrants failing to assimilate...but that America itself has stopped insisting on assimilation."
  • "What's different is us...our leadership institutions, our assimilating institutions...no longer value or insist on assimilation." (01:49)
  • Two key changes impacting assimilation:
    1. Easier Communication and Travel: Immigrants today can maintain dual ties—"You couldn't live in two countries at the same time. In effect, well, now you kind of can." (01:59)
    2. Institutional Shifts: Schools, media, government, etc., no longer promote assimilation—"Our elites...reject the idea of assimilation. This is multiculturalism, wokeism." (02:35)

• Meaning of Assimilation (05:02)

  • Defined as more than just learning English or integrating into the workforce.
  • Profound Assimilation: "You have become adopted by America and you have in turn adopted America." (05:38)
  • Cites the naturalization oath as a marker of allegiance—"You renounce all other loyalties and allegiances."
  • Example: Connecting emotionally with U.S. history—"Do you say, oh, we fought the British in 1812, or is that all those, you know, dead...white men? The first is assimilation." (06:06)
  • Notable Quote: “You come to see yourself as a member of the American people, even if you eat...whatever, rice pilaf with your turkey at Thanksgiving...you emotionally identify as an American.” (06:54)

• Institutional and Policy Recommendations (07:29)

  • Genuine change comes from a “vibe shift”—"Government can set the tone." (07:42)
  • Concrete suggestions:
    • De-wokeify institutions like the Smithsonian.
    • Consider ending or restricting dual citizenship to reinforce American identification: “If you vote in a foreign election...that's some kind of offense...sending the message that, when you become an American, that's a real thing.” (08:43)

• The Role of Cultural Self-Confidence (09:51)

  • Krikorian: “That’s the core problem. That’s the source of multiculturalism and all the rest of that stuff.” (09:52)
  • Solution: Dramatically reduce new immigration (by 50–70%), allowing cultural “counter revolution” to take hold.
  • Analogy: "If your bathtub is overflowing, the first thing you do is turn off the faucet, not start mopping..." (09:59)

• Technology's Double-Edged Sword (11:23)

  • While technology allows immigrants to know more about U.S. culture pre-arrival, it also dilutes the unique American identity: “It creates this kind of perverse sense that they also own American culture..." (12:18)

• Historical vs. Current Assimilation Dynamics (13:07)

  • Human nature is constant; enclaves form naturally.
  • Difference today is in the valorization of foreign cultures over American culture and the sheer numbers of arrivals: "When numbers declined dramatically, the digestion process...was able to take place." (13:54)
  • Lesson: Reducing the number of newcomers is essential for assimilation.

• Variation Among Immigrant Groups (15:29)

  • Some groups assimilate more easily due to cultural proximity (e.g., Filipinos vs. Pakistanis).
  • Smaller and more skilled groups tend to assimilate faster, but numbers remain the most significant factor.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “There are two things that in modern America make assimilation more complicated...” – Mark Krikorian (01:41)
• “The necessary process of reorienting your emotional and psychological connections from one place to the other...happens more slowly, less effectively, less thoroughly.” (02:14)
• “Our institutions...no longer value or insist on assimilation. In fact, reject the idea...” (02:37)
• “Until we get our house in order, it’s just indefensible to be letting in a million plus newcomers every year...” (04:40)

Segment 2: The Life and Work of T.S. Eliot

Guest: Dr. Christina Lambert (Assistant Professor of English)
Timestamps: 19:19–30:28

Main Discussion Points & Insights

• Background and Influences (19:58)

  • Born in St. Louis, his American background and landscapes influenced his poetry more than his later British citizenship.
  • Harvard education provided grounding in ancient languages, ritual, myth.

• Religious Imagery in Eliot’s Work (21:55)

  • Deeply influenced by Dante, especially by an image from “Purgatorio.”
  • “Imagined that there could be a form of suffering that’s...good for your sanctification...” (22:33)
  • Eventually became Anglo-Catholic; liturgical life in London shaped later poetry.

• Eliot’s Most Famous Works (23:51)

  • “The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock,” “The Waste Land,” “Four Quartets,” and “Murder in the Cathedral.”

• Modernist Experimentation (24:42)

  • Use of free verse, fragmentation, and the “mythical method.”
  • Notable Quote: “He says, instead of a narrative method, we now have a mythical method that gives an ordering structure to poetry.” (26:06)

• Urban Alienation and Organicism (26:20)

  • Eliot’s bleak depiction of urban life as a critique of industrial alienation.
  • Despite this, he loved London and used its rhythms and scenes as artistic material.

• Influence on Later Poets and Literary Movements (27:52)

  • Influence is immense, even if sometimes indirect or “stolen.”
  • Example: Gwendolyn Brooks, Denise Levertov, Muriel Rukeyser all drew on Eliot’s innovations in form and myth.

• Advice for New Readers (29:30)

  • Start with a poem or theme of interest.
  • “Repetition is key...Try listening to [the poem], then follow up on a couple images or allusions...then return to read the poem another time.” (29:41)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Although T.S. Eliot becomes a British citizen in 1927, he says it’s the American landscapes that remain largest in his poetic imagination.” – Dr. Lambert (20:31)
• “Eliot really believes that this difficulty is a part of the experience of poetry…fragmentation is really important to him and other modernists.” (25:34)

Segment 3: Reviving Computer Science at Hillsdale College

Guest: Dr. John Seifert (Associate Professor of Computer Science)
Timestamps: 33:10–41:19

Main Discussion Points & Insights

• Computing as a Creative Endeavor (33:28)

  • Dr. Seifert views computer programming as akin to fine art—“like an artist on a canvas.”
  • Encourages creativity and open-ended projects: “Some of the students will really get into it and add features...” (33:54)

• Computer Science in the Liberal Arts (34:29)

  • Counters perception of computing as only technical. Parallels with writing/drawing as forms of personal expression.
  • “It really is part of the intellectual language of our age.” (35:05)

• Program Rebuilding: Challenges and Opportunities (35:53)

  • Student interest spans majors; positive cross-campus engagement.
  • Some students “find it’s the funnest class I’ve ever taken”—others realize it’s not for them. (36:24)

• Hands-On Learning and Confidence (37:22)

  • Students gain immediate confidence by creating something from nothing: “By the end of the hour you’ve made a machine do something you never thought you could make it do before.”

• Classroom Environment: Flexibility and Collaboration (37:54)

  • Openness in design problems; promotes choice, discussion, and peer learning in later parts of semester.

• General Benefits of Learning to Code (39:25)

  • Coding ability is marketable but not universally suited to everyone.
  • More fundamentally, it provides understanding of the software-driven world mandatory for modern life.

• Vision for Computer Science at Hillsdale (40:29)

  • “I really hope I can frame it as a one and done course...people can come in there and gain some wonderful experience...and see the world in a new kind of way.” (40:29)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “What they come out with is their own creation.” – Dr. Seifert (33:36)
• “It gives them an immediate sense of confidence that I can do this thing.” (37:22)
• “As we want to have a wide view of what a person is and what reality is...computer science is helpful.” (35:18)

Highlighted Timestamps

• 00:38 – Start of discussion on Americanization with Mark Krikorian
• 05:02 – Defining successful assimilation
• 09:51 – On the role of American self-confidence and prescriptions for change
• 19:19 – Introduction to T.S. Eliot segment with Dr. Christina Lambert
• 24:42 – Eliot’s modernist experimentation
• 33:28 – Dr. Seifert on programming as creative art

Concluding Thoughts

This episode of The Radio Free Hillsdale Hour delves into questions of national identity, literary innovation, and the evolving nature of education in the technological age. Each guest brings deep perspective: Krikorian challenges the nation to renew its vision of assimilation; Dr. Lambert draws the lines from Eliot’s biography into his poetic legacy; and Dr. Seifert links the liberal arts tradition to the digital world of computer science.

Listeners come away with a rich tapestry of intellectual inquiry, practical wisdom, and timely reflection—true to Hillsdale College’s mission of “radiating its knowledge and teaching to the world outside of campus.”