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- [00:06]
Dr. Ken Calvert
From the historic campus of Hillsdale College.
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Scott Bertram
In Hillsdale, Michigan, where the good, the.
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Host/Announcer (Scott Bertram)
True and the beautiful are taught, nurtured.
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Dr. Ken Calvert
And honored, this is the Radio Free.
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Host/Announcer (Scott Bertram)
Hillsdale Hour, bringing the activity and education of the college to listeners across the country.
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Dr. Ken Calvert
God himself breathes the same air that we breathe and he is there present with us. And all of those in the Nativity are looking to him and praising God for what he is doing there. You know, that to me is a great symbol.
- [00:41]
Host/Announcer (Scott Bertram)
This is your host, Scott Bertram. Welcome to the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast network. That was Dr. Ken Calvert, professor of Ancient history here at Hillsdale College. He's back this week to talk about the meaning of of Christmas. And later on in today's program, Dr. Timothy McDonnell from Hillsdale's Music department will tell us all about the Christmas hymn, Good Christian Men Rejoice. First, we're joined by Dr. Ken Calvert.
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Scott Bertram
He is professor of Ancient history here at Hillsdale College. Dr. Calvert, thanks for joining us.
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Dr. Ken Calvert
Thank you, Scott. Great to be here.
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Scott Bertram
I'm really excited to have you here as we have a in depth conversation special for this part of the year. The meaning of Christmas is what we start with today.
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Dr. Ken Calvert
Yeah, it's a great topic. And one of my great pleasures as an ancient historian, and particularly ancient historian interested in the early church is to run across topics like this and be able to bring them to the attention of my students and then be able to really work out some of the confusion that has developed over the centuries about Christmas.
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Host/Announcer (Scott Bertram)
Let's start with the basics.
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Dr. Ken Calvert
Okay.
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Scott Bertram
From a historic Christian perspective, what's Christmas really about?
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Dr. Ken Calvert
Right.
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Scott Bertram
Gift giving, presents, things like that?
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Dr. Ken Calvert
Of course. Yeah. It's all about materialism. So we have to remember, and this is something that we so easily forget, really drag ourselves back into the first century and into scripture. And the idea that God becomes man, you know, this is a radical idea, the incarnation. This is something that strikes their culture, you know, really, you know, across the face with something that they had never heard of before, the God of the universe. You know, there have been people like Hercules and things like that. Zeus rapes a woman and, you know, creates a man God kind of idea. Or Julius Caesar, who's voted God by the Senate. There are things like that floating around, but nothing like this where the creator God of the universe becomes man. And why? This is absolutely the point of all of salvation history. All of scripture points ahead to this. In Ezekiel, God says, I'm going to do this myself, right? In Isaiah, the virgin gives birth To God, you know, God present right among us. And so this is so important to understand that Scripture is pointing ahead to this. From Genesis, chapter three, the woman who gives birth to the child who crushed the head of the serpent. This is the key that God is going to take upon himself. All of the sins of the world and the atonement on the cross. You know, the early church focused on Easter, as it should. We focus to a great extent on Easter as we should. And actually even the word Easter, maybe we should have another show about that, because only in English speaking countries do we use the word Easter. In other countries, it's all about the Pascha, it's all about the Passover. Anyway, back to Christmas. The idea here is that God becomes man. And that is a central point of salvation history. He dies on the cross, and in order to die, he has to have a body. Right? And that's what we're talking about here. In order to rise from the dead, he has to have a body. And this is the most audacious message that the Christians bring into the world, that God has become man. And so Christmas, what's it about? Well, it has to do with the conception of Jesus and the womb of Mary. It has to do with his birth and when is he born in this ancient world. What are the dates we're looking at? And there's a lot of confusion about that and we'll get into that a little bit. But really for the Christians, if we're talking about God coming into the world, we should have an idea of when that happened, you know, approximately what year, what time of year. And then a celebration begins to emerge in those early years, a memorial and a celebration regarding this central event in human history.
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Scott Bertram
Yeah, yeah, I alluded to this as I asked that first question. But over time, Christmas now has taken on different cultural layers, be it presents or Santa lights and family gatherings. What's gained or lost when the meaning that you outline takes a backseat perhaps to other things.
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Dr. Ken Calvert
Right. And I guess as I look at Christmas, part of me wants to say, I'm really glad we still remember this. And this still is an important marker in everybody's year, especially for children. You know, this idea. Something happened on this day and the word Christmas still has Christ in it. Even if we say Happy Holiday, we're still saying Happy Holy Day. And so there is a remembrance of that. And so there have been attempts in modern history, in particular by the Puritans, within the Christian world, within the secular world. When you look at the Soviet Union or communist states, There have been attempts to erase the commemoration of Christmas, and it's not been successful. That it keeps coming back. And I think that really at the heart of it is this idea that something truly monumental is being celebrated on this day, and we should not forget it. Now, in modern times, it's all about family and all about gift giving and gathering everybody together around a table to argue about politics. But really, at the core. At the core of this whole celebration is something much more profound. And I think everybody has a sense of that. Yeah.
- [07:14]
Scott Bertram
Talking with Dr. Ken Calvert from Hillsdale about the meaning of Christmas, Christian theology will tie Christmas into a much larger story than just a single event. The Annunciation, the Incarnation. How do those things help us understand what's really being celebrated here?
- [07:32]
Dr. Ken Calvert
Right, so not long after all of this got started, and we can talk about the celebration of December 25th as the day. I'll get back to that, perhaps. But the idea here is right after Christmas, we celebrate what's called the octave of Christmas. In many of the churches, this is done. And this is the eight days after Christmas. And this reflects a Jewish tradition that goes back quite a long way to the feast of the tabernacles, which was seven days of feasting, and then on the eighth day, a day of reflection. And you see this in a couple of arenas. The. The idea of the six days of creation, the seventh day being the Sabbath, and then the eighth day being a day of reflection. These are found within Jewish tradition. And, of course, Christianity rooted there, picks up some of this idea of the octave of the eight days after Christmas as an appropriate way to celebrate a high feast. The same way with Easter after Easter, after Resurrection Day, there is what's called the octave of Easter, of eight days of just celebrating, pulling out all the stops. And so what the octave does is serve a very important purpose that this doesn't end on Christmas Day. And what you have is a period of joyous celebration, because what Christmas represents is God beginning the process. Him coming as incarnate God to, you know, to atone for our sins that has begun here at Christmas. And so we're just thanking God, opening up all the stops, thanking him for doing this for us. And then you have the 12 days of Christmas, which people, you know, certainly know through the song. Right. And all.
- [09:28]
Scott Bertram
It's a countdown, though, right?
- [09:30]
Dr. Ken Calvert
Yeah, exactly. And, you know, the thing is that it was something that I, as far as I can tell, emerged really during the Victorian era, which is really where a lot of our Western and particularly English and American celebrations began. With the Christmas tree and all of that. Queen Victoria did much, did a lot to add to our celebration of Christmas. But the 12 days of Christmas are the 12 days between Christmas and epiphany. And so what you remember, and the octave is within the 12 days. Right. But what you remember with these 12 days of Christmas. And the song makes it suggest that it's all about a gift every day. But really what it is is that movement from Christmas. The Lord has arrived. Our salvation has arrived. And then the epiphany remembering that the magi come and to visit Jesus in that the Gospel is not just for a certain 12 tribes in the Holy Land, but for the whole world. And so epiphany, the epiphany being the appearance of the divine, the appearance of God is for both. Now, what has happened over the years is that a number of celebrations have been tucked into those 12 days. For instance, one of our earliest accounts of a calendar from the 4th century AD that talks about the 12 days has a list of martyrs. And among those martyrs, of course, is St. Stephen, the first of the martyrs, and then also a remembrance of those holy innocents who were killed by Herod at Bethlehem. And so you're remembering in these 12 days also certain moments in the history of all of this and in the Gospels that remind us of why Jesus comes and the impact that is not just local, but it's worldwide. It's for all the Gentiles. Everyone can come to Christ.
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Scott Bertram
Have many or any of the customs, how these days were observed in older Christian communities. Have any survived? And perhaps we've just lost some of the meaning behind them?
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Dr. Ken Calvert
Yeah, I think so. I think, like the song the 12 days of Christmas, you know, the 12 days from Christmas to epiphany have survived in that song, but there's really nothing in that song that would suggest just what the meaning is. Right, right. And so you kind of lose that. I think it's in England after Christmas Day, they have a little remnant of some of this called Boxing Day, which is the day when you actually receive your gifts. And Christmas is a holy day. And so the English have a sense that there is something that follows the main day, the high feast. And, you know, that exists in the octave and in the twelve days of Christmas. But we. We as a culture have kind of a vague memory of that. Yeah.
- [12:35]
Scott Bertram
Talking with Dr. Ken Calvert, professor of history here at Hillsdale, about the meaning of Christmas, the holy family. So Mary, Joseph, Jesus stands right at the center of the Christmas story. What lessons does their example hold? For us about faith and obedience and also family life, Right?
- [12:56]
Dr. Ken Calvert
It's so large, it would take lecture upon lecture to really unpack this. You know, Scott, there's just so much to it. And I'd like to start with Joseph, who we sometimes just kind of shove to the side and don't consider who this guy was. And, you know, he's got just a couple of lines, you know, in the Gospel of Matthew, and that's pretty much all you hear and a little bit elsewhere. But, you know, the thing is this. He is in the line of David. He's in the Davidic line, right? And Joseph being in the Davidic line, and many theologians talk about this, could this guy have been a king of Israel? And technically, the answer is yes. Okay? Now, they're not in Jerusalem. They're not even in Bethlehem, where the Messiah, it is said, you know, to come from. They have to go down to Bethlehem to. To give birth to Jesus. They're up in Nazareth and kind of hiding out, it seems, there, Right? And so, you know, the question that people. And, you know, there's nothing in scripture that's explicit about this except that he is in the line of David. And, you know, his job, you think about this, his job is to oversee, to look after the woman who's going to give birth to God and then look after incarnate God himself until such a time as this young man begins to take on adulthood. And it's interesting that we see him at about 13 years old at the temple, right, where Jesus stays behind, likely during the Passover. During the Passover, yeah, when they're looking for him. And Joseph, you know, where have you been? You know, your mother and I are worried. It gives us an idea of, you know, what his responsibility was, right? And then Jesus says, and remember who this man is. Okay? Where would I be but in my father's house? And this. This sheds some really important light on who Joseph is, because Joseph is Jesus, human adopted father. He adopts this boy into his family and then looks after him, protects him, no doubt, trains him in carpentry or honestly, whatever it is that Joseph does, because that's not entirely clear. But, you know, he's working in this town of Nazareth and around it are Greek towns and Jewish towns and Roman towns and probably working for a whole wide variety of people. But this is the man who protects and raises Jesus. He protects Jesus from Herod. He believes this dream that, you know, he is to go down to Egypt. You know, he is told, go to Egypt. And it's Interesting that Egypt, when you look at the Roman Empire, it's the closest region in the empire that is not within the jurisdiction of Herod. So it's a safe place to go. And Joseph is faithful in all this. He doesn't divorce Mary. He does what he needs to do. So this is, as scripture tells us, a righteous man. And so I like to talk about Joseph and to help people focus on what kind of husband, what kind of father, what kind of man he was. He was of this important line of. Of David. And yet, you know, he did not become a king or anything near that. We have people wonder, okay, did he have a family before this? And there's all kinds of discussion. From my perspective, he did not. I think he was married young, as was Mary. And I would argue that they did not have other children. And of course, that's another argument that we could go around and round on. But, you know, their neighbors and the Jewish authorities were confused about who he was. And they say, this is Joseph. Isn't Joseph Jesus father? You know, and so they don't know that he's not. Right. And so Joseph and Mary have had to keep this under. Under wraps, keep this quiet, you know, all of this time. And there too, Joseph had to protect his wife and Jesus, the son of God. Yeah.
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Scott Bertram
If Joseph is somewhat in the background, Mary is less so even to this day. Right. What about Mary's role in that family?
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Dr. Ken Calvert
Yeah. And so this is remarkable. And when you look at scripture, she is referred to in Genesis as the woman of Genesis. In Isaiah, you know, she's the virgin, very important. And you can find other things that are distant references to who she is. As many scholars point out, all of Jesus life is in the Old Testament. You know, you can find that prophecy there. And she's there as well. And the idea is that the virgin will be giving birth to God, God, you know, among us, you know, God on earth. And so, you know, you have this idea. And the angel Gabriel comes to her. Angel also comes to Joseph. Angel Gabriel comes to Mary and calls her full of grace. That's her title. He says, full of grace, you know, and she responds with a little bit of fear. And he said, this is what the Lord wants to do. Right? That the Holy Spirit will conceive in you, you know, this baby. And she says yes. Right. And down through Christian theology, the contrast between Eve who says no, and Mary who says yes is often pointed out. In fact, Irenaeus of Lyon in 170s was the first one to really make a big deal out of this. And there are others who write about it as well. But what is important here is that here's a woman who for nine months carries God, right, and who for nine months provides God with his flesh so that he can be killed on a cross in the atonement, he can rise from the dead and even ascended into heaven in the flesh, he still carries the flesh that she gave him. And so the early church understood this and the power and the immensity of what she agreed to do in all of this. And of course, in the Magnificat in Luke, she says, all generations will call me blessed. And you know, all of the major theologians, Calvin, Luther, and, of course, Aquinas, everybody praised Mary, you know, for this affirmation of what the Lord wanted her to do. And Luke tells us that she conceives, and then she is told to go and visit her relative. And we don't know how Elizabeth is her relative, but go to visit her relative who is already six months, you know, pregnant. And so Mary goes to her. And when Mary arrives, John the Baptist, who is the infant of Elizabeth, when he hears her voice, it says when he hears the voice of Mary, he leaps in her womb, in the womb of Elizabeth. And there is this sense that this special woman who was faithful to God and who has borne God, is present there with Elizabeth. And Elizabeth says, why should the mother of my Lord, you know, the mother of God, which becomes the title for Mary down through the centuries, why should the mother of my Lord, you know, come to me and, you know, very, very important. Now, Mary, later on in the history with the wedding at Cana, you know, they've run out of wine, and she asks her son, and it shows that she can ask him, you know, for things. And in fact, the last thing we have her, the last phrase we have of her from the Bible is, do what he tells you. And just a wonderful thing. And she's with him at the cross in the garden with the resurrection. And then at Pentecost, we have her listed among the disciples who are there. And then a little controversial, but I have to mention it in the revelation of St. John, the woman of heaven, many Orthodox and Catholic understand to be Mary. And so this is who she is. I mean, wow. And again, why is she so important? Well, because she is that person who God prepared from the beginning of the world. From the beginning of the world. He prepared this young virgin to be the person through whom he enters. And he could have done it any other way, right? But he comes as a human being and this is so crucial that without her, he can't be called a true human being. Right? He could just show up and say, hi, I'm God and I've miraculously taken on flesh. But no, he comes just as the rest of us do, through our mothers.
- [22:37]
Scott Bertram
Dr. Ken Calvert with us, professor of ancient history here at Hillsdale. As we talk about the meaning of. Of Christmas, are there ways in which this Christmas story that we know helps look ahead and preview the mission of Christ while on earth? His teaching, his sacrifice, and then the resurrection.
- [22:54]
Dr. Ken Calvert
Yeah, you can see this in many places. For instance, King Herod comes to hunt him down. And he does so because the magi have shown up and said were looking for the King of the Jews. It's important to understand that Herod has been named King of the Jews by the Senate of Rome. So, you know, you know, his mind is going, and Herod was not the best guy in the world, but, you know, you can, you can just kind of, if you're reading the Gospels in the first century context, you kind of know this stuff, what kind of guy Herod was. We often, we often forget that. And what he is doing is thinking, okay, I need to make sure that my authority and power are safe, that the Roman authority and power is safe, that I'm doing my job as a local potentate on behalf of the Roman Empire. Now, something that people often miss is that the magi are those who read the signs and the sacred texts and, and the stars on behalf of the Persian Empire at that time called the Parthian Empire. And so them showing up in town looking for this king of the Jews. Herod's alarms are going off doubly because these are the enemy. This is the enemy showing up. And Herod in, I believe it was in 39 BC, had helped to drive a Persian Parthian invasion into Judea out and he freed Jerusalem from the Parthians. So, you know, he's a little bit skeptical. And so skeptical, so much so that he's going to send troops down to kill the little boys two years old and younger, which means that Jesus was born two years before this. Shepherds and angels show up at his nativity, and then two years later, the holy family is back in Bethlehem, probably visiting family or what have you. And the magi show up to see Jesus and they give him gold, frankincense and myrrh, which are the gifts of one king to another. We often think, well, they're also for like frankincense and myrrh for the dead, for you know, symbols of his death and resurrection that could be. But I also think that we need to focus on the fact that they're looking for a king and maybe even a rebel king that they can get behind against the Romans. And so the fact that he is king, that he is Messiah, that he is under threat of death from the beginning. And then all the way through, you know, he is accused of so many things, particularly of blasphemy, saying that he is God, that they are looking for ways to kill him. And how is he killed? He's killed under the accusation that he is a rebel king. Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews. Crucifixion is set aside almost exclusively for rebels and for traitors. And this is how he's identified. And I would argue, and many scholars have, that this guy, Barabbas, son of the Father, he was probably a false messiah who was allowed to go free. And then they killed the true Messiah. But that was his mission, was to die and rise from the dead. So, you know, from the time of the Nativity accounts, all the accounts that we read at Christmas, if we were to read them in the first century, we would know the meaning of the incarnation, the meaning of what it means for Herod to be coming after this boy and to kill these children. I once had a discussion with a friend who was really questioning Christianity and had trouble with the idea that a bunch of baby boys were killed. Why would God allow this? And really the point of it is this, that they are out to kill Jesus. That's why these baby boys are killed. And how many? Who knows? Maybe a dozen, maybe not more than that because it's a fairly sparsely populated region, but it's still. It's done. And they want to get rid of the King of Heaven who has become incarnate on earth.
- [27:20]
Host/Announcer (Scott Bertram)
Yeah, that's Dr. Ken Calvert from Hillsdale's history department. We're talking about the meaning of Christmas. Back with more in a moment. But first, a gift for you. This Christmas season is the opportunity to shape the future of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. Visit podcast hillsdale.edu click the pop up to take our very first listener survey. Help the Hillsdale College Podcast Network reach millions more Americans with the timeless truths that make this country great. That means this show, the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour. Perhaps you listen to Imprimis or Hillsdale Dialogues or the Larry Arn Show. We want your opinions on all of it. Visit podcast hillsdale.edu click the pop up. Take the survey. Merry Christmas. Thanks for listening and thank you for Your feedback. We continue now with Dr. Ken Calvert from Hillsdale's History Department as we dive deeper into the meaning of Christmas.
- [28:24]
Scott Bertram
Dr. Calvert, the Nativity story itself, the shepherds, the journey, the manger. When are we reading the meaning of that? It could have been a normal birth. He was coming into the world as a normal human. Right.
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Host/Announcer (Scott Bertram)
So what about that?
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Dr. Ken Calvert
Well, I think that the way I see it, and there are scholars who talk about this, so there are scholars who would disagree with me, but the way I see it is that at the Nativity, the night Jesus is born, there are a number of things going on there. The true nature of this visit, and that is that it is cold, it is dirty, it is nasty. The king of the universe becomes a human being, right? And this is not comfortable. It's not warm and cozy, you know, around a Christmas tree. It's just not. And I think that there's quote, unquote, no room at the inn. You know, people sometimes construct a conversation between Joseph and an innkeeper. No conversation is ever recorded in Scripture, just simply that there's no room in the inn and she gives birth to him in a manger where animals are kept. And in that region in Bethlehem, it's highly likely that it was a cave. In fact, the Church of the Nativity today and back in the day, in the 4th century was built on top of a cave. And I would argue that the first century Christians had identified that cave. Right? But he's not born in comfort. And yet this baby in a manger is the God of the universe. He's the king of heaven, as compared to a man a couple thousand miles down the way in Rome, Caesar Augustus, who claims to be a son of God, who claims to be the ruler of the world, right? I mean, this is Roman propaganda. Who's got all the comfort and luxury and wine and food and everything that he needs? There's this wonderful message in Scripture that you have this contrast between the great and powerful and the truly great and powerful. And so who is called to come see him? Well, angels appear in the sky to a group of shepherds and say, you know, he's born, he's here, the Messiah has come. You know what Roman centurion, governor, proconsul, emperor is going to pay any attention to a bunch of shepherds, right? And so they go and they praise God and worship Jesus. Some of the lowest of society. You know who shepherds were. A lot of debate. I see them as the people who were most expendable. Because you've got wild animals out There trying to take out the sheep. And who do you put out there to look after the sheep? Are the ones that are the most expendable. I mean, David was the youngest son in his family of a number of sons and most expendable. So he was out there, you know, and. And here we again, you know, we have this connection with King David. But the shepherds, the shepherds and the angels, this cosmic announcement of, you know, the sky full of angels, that this is such a moment, you know, that the angel choirs are singing the incarnation of God. And then, you know, the shepherds are sent, and they. Those are the people who witness, right, the Nativity. The magi don't show up for two years. It's angels and shepherds. And to me, it's just so fitting. And we have this phrase that is spoken, written about Mary every once in a while, she pondered these things in her heart, right? And here, you know, she's looking at this and considering it and what is going on, you know, just the. The full effect of this woman, that she is seeing all of this unfold. And, of course, one has to put oneself in her place when she's at the dedication. And Simeon and Anna prophesy that this young baby is going to bring salvation, but also trouble. And then at the crucifixion, she's there. And what she must have felt as she watched this baby, now an adult man, being crucified. So there's this idea that Mary is pondering all this in her heart, these shepherds and this angelic host. Remarkable.
- [33:14]
Host/Announcer (Scott Bertram)
Dr. Calvert, are there any forgotten people.
- [33:18]
Scott Bertram
Or those who we don't talk enough about that we should mention in the.
- [33:22]
Dr. Ken Calvert
Course of this conversation, the two people I would mention who I feel like we just kind of leave out of our cogitations or thinking about Christmas are Simeon and Anna, who are two very remarkable people at the temple. You know, it gives us an idea that around the temple there are people who are not necessarily priests or high priests or maybe not even considered important people, but people who love the Lord, love God, and to whom God has spoken in important ways, the way the Lord does. I've often heard people say that there's this vast gap between Malachi and Matthew in which God is not speaking to his people. But I think that Simeon and Anna, whose word from God becomes scripture, you know, in Luke chapter two, are really important. And what are they talking about? You know, it's such a beautiful thing, Simeon's response to the Lord coming to the temple with his parents. He says, lord, now youw are letting youg servant depart in peace, According to youo Word, for my eyes have seen youn salvation. He's one of the first witnesses, right? You could say the shepherds and the angels. But here, Simeon, that you have prepared in the presence of all peoples a light for revelation to the Gentiles and for glory to your people Israel. And also there, you know, this suggestion, and you'll find this later with the Magi as well, this suggestion that this is for the whole world, you know, and this is such a beautiful part of the Christmas story. And, you know, I hear the song of Simeon read or sung in church, and it's just such a beautiful, beautiful proclamation, and it's like it just comes from his heart, right? And then Anna, who is in her 80s and has been hanging around the temple for decades, you know, after her husband died, she's a widow, and she, too, she's a. She's a prophetess of sorts, that she. She knows that the Lord has made it clear that the Messiah is going to come and she's going to get to see Him. And so she also. So these two people who are important witnesses to the coming of the Lord and are important part of the Christmas story that I think we often forget. And certainly they're not there with the creches or nativity scenes, that kind of thing. So to remember Simeon and Anna, Dr.
- [36:13]
Scott Bertram
Ken Calvert with us, professor of ancient history at Hillsdale, talking about the meaning of Christmas. What do you think the Christian approach to Christmas can teach us about slowing down, finding meaning?
- [36:24]
Dr. Ken Calvert
Yeah. Yeah. I think that as Christians, we have to stop and think about what the Incarnation means for us as a church, for the world, for us as individuals. You know, God did this for our salvation. And you see this idea, particularly in the Gospel of John, that, you know, he loved the world, he loved us so much that he does this for us. This is an overwhelming and remarkable thing that I think even the most faithful Christian, I think, has an idea, has a hard time really fully comprehending what this means. In fact, I would say it's impossible for us all to fully comprehend what this means, that God Himself has done this for us. And it begins at Christmas. It begins at the Nativity, with the coming of Christ. You know, one symbol that for me always is the most powerful is the creche, is the Nativity scene with Mary, Joseph, the baby, maybe a little star on top, and an angel and some shepherds and some animals always gathered around. I have a very close friend who wants an elephant to be Present because he thinks that, you know, the Magi should have come on an elephant. Anyway, whatever your taste in art regarding the Nativity scene, I think that that moment in which God himself breathes the same air that we breathe and he is there present with us, and all of those in the Nativity are looking to him and praising God for what he is doing there. That, to me, is a great symbol. And I think that is what I would hope every Christian would ponder on Christmas Day and through the celebrations that are there. I think, too, we have this practice and it's very important of bringing all the family together on that day. And it is so easy as it is at Thanksgiving to enter into arguments, right, Whether they be family squabbles or be politics or what have you. And what I love to remind people is we've been celebrating Christmas for 2000 years, and all along the way, there have been family squabbles. All along the way, there have been politics of whatever emperor, king, you know, republic, democracy that is present, that is part of the Christian life. And what is important to remember that Christmas overrides all of that, that all of that is temporary, it's temporal, right? Who we're worshiping at Christmas is eternal. And the coming of our Lord Jesus. This is what is the message, the Prince of Peace, the one who should bring us together and we should pray to that they bring us together and overcome all of these differences that are just really temporary. And here again, with the coming of the Magi and the chasing down of the Holy Family and their need to escape into Egypt, you know, they faced very, very serious temporal problems and an attempt on the part of a government to kill them, Right? And yet, you know, they came out of it having fulfilled all that the Lord had wanted to be fulfilled at that moment. And so if we can see that in our day now, you know, I have my own political views, which sometimes get in the way of peace with my family. But you know, what I think I try to remember at Christmas is that this is about the eternal, not the temporal. Right? Yeah.
- [40:38]
Scott Bertram
Dr. Ken Calvert, professor of Ancient History at Hillsdale College, as we talk about the meaning of Christmas. Dr. Calvert, thanks for joining us here on the radio Free Hillsdale Hour.
- [40:49]
Dr. Ken Calvert
Thank you, sir. Scott.
- [40:50]
Host/Announcer (Scott Bertram)
Up next, Dr. Timothy McDonald, Associate professor of music and Director of Sacred music here at Hillsdale College, tells us all about the Christmas hymn, Good Christian Men Rejoice. I'm Scott Bertram. This is the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour.
- [41:15]
Bill Gray
Hi there. It's Bill Gray from Hillsdale College. Before you Skip ahead. Can I ask you a quick favor? Next year marks the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. 250 years that the greatest country in human history, the United States of America, has been dedicated to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. But to secure these rights, we need an education that helps citizens to be self governing. From kindergarteners to lifelong learners, we need more people to understand the principles of liberty that make America great. In fact, we're seeking to educate millions and millions more through efforts like the podcast you're listening to right now. Hillsdale College has been expanding its educational outreach through free online courses, free issues of imprimis, free help for K12 schools all across America, and yes, free podcasts like this one. However, these efforts are not without cost. And Hillsdale College is a non profit institution that doesn't take a single penny from the taxpayer, not one penny, to remain proudly independent. So your tax deductible gift before December 31st can help us make a difference. With your generous gift, you'll support our work to reach and teach millions the principles that make our country so free and so prosperous. You'll be making a real difference for liberty in America. Please make your tax deductible gift of $25, $50 or even $100 today by visiting Hillsdale. Edu Cye that's Hillsdale. Edu Cye. Thank you for standing with us. Now back to the show.
- [42:54]
Narrator for Hillsdale College Documentary
When you think of America's founding, you might picture the Declaration of Independence, the Revolutionary War are great figures like George Washington and Benjamin Franklin. But those moments and those men didn't appear out of nowhere and they didn't succeed by chance. The ideas that shaped our nation were forged over more than a century of struggle and faith. Tested and proven by the colonists who carved a civilization from the wilderness, these men and women escaped tyranny, defined self government and set the stage for history's greatest fight for freedom. In Hillsdale College's free six part documentary series on colonial America, you'll discover how the virtues of courage, faith, hard work and freedom defined our earliest Americans and why they still matter today. You'll hear their stories set against the backdrop of the Great Awakening, the Glorious Revolution and the French and Indian War, and see how the American character was forged long before 1770. Watch the series for free at Hillsdale. Edu Network. That's Hillsdale. Edu Network.
- [44:07]
Host/Announcer (Scott Bertram)
Welcome back to this Christmas themed edition of the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour.
- [44:12]
Scott Bertram
I'm Scott Bertram.
- [44:14]
Host/Announcer (Scott Bertram)
We're joined by Dr. Timothy McDonnell, Associate professor of here at Hillsdale College and Director of Sacred Music here at Hillsdale College. We've talked to him over the years about a number of Christmas hymns.
- [44:25]
Scott Bertram
That continues today.
- [44:27]
Host/Announcer (Scott Bertram)
Dr. McDonald, thanks for joining us. We're joined by Dr. Timothy McDonald, who.
- [44:31]
Scott Bertram
Is Associate professor of Music and Director of Sacred Music here at Hillsdale College. Dr. McDonnell, thanks for joining us.
- [44:38]
Dr. Timothy McDonnell
Thanks for having me.
- [44:39]
Host/Announcer (Scott Bertram)
Continue and conclude at least this particular.
- [44:42]
Scott Bertram
Series on Christmas carols. And looking into the background, Good Christian Men Rejoice is our carol this time around. Tell us a little about the history surrounding this hymn. What inspired its composition?
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Dr. Timothy McDonnell
Well, this carol is very, very ancient as carols go. It has a rather mystical origin story. The melody for the carol, which was originally called Indulci Jubilo or its first line in Latin, it was never actually all in Latin. It was always what we call a macro moronic text where it blended Latin with German in the original version. And it was, it was, it's been attributed to a 14th century German mystic Dominican friar by the name of Heinrich Suzo. And the story is that this melody and the text for. With the, for the carol came to him in a kind of mystic vision that he had around the year 1328, when he claims that he was suddenly in the company of angels around Christmas, the feast of Christmas, and they were singing a melody that, that becomes Indulci ubilo. And in fact, as part of that he joins, he's invited by the angels into a kind of a dance. And so there is a, there is in this carol that has got a certain dance, dance like quality about the melody, you know, the degree to which this is, you know, we can't possibly verify this sure the origin of the story, but it certainly has all the marks of something rather dance like in all of this. And this story is included in the biography of Heinrich Sousa who eventually becomes, you know, a blessed in the Catholic church in the 19th century, which is pretty late for far, far removed from his own, his own time. So this story has kind of been part of his own personal, like the legend of the saint, as it were. But we have a carol that has come out of this legend which I think is a relatively beautiful and an important kind of cross millennium piece of Christmas joy. Yeah.
- [47:08]
Scott Bertram
So what about the lyrics here of Good Christian Men Rejoice? What message or theme? What did Souso apparently see in his vision?
- [47:16]
Dr. Timothy McDonnell
Well, as the legend suggests, the message of the hymn is, you know, really a kind of exuberant joy in the, you know, to the point of dancing in the birth of the, of the, of the Christ Child. And so, you know, that is evident not just in the melody, but in some of the, some of the little snippets of Latin that we hear in the text. You know, it's, it's a piece that's also kind of retained in a way, the Latin plus the vernacular. Another carol that does this, and we don't even think about it very much would be something like Angels we have Heard on High, where you sing Gloria in excelsis Deo and everybody sings it without thinking, wait a minute, I'm singing in Latin. It's interesting and it was sort of embedded into your. It just becomes instinctive, almost like a reflex. And so some of these little Latin snippets are kind of interesting. And you have the first line in Dulci ubilo, like in Sweet Rejoicing. Now we sing with hearts aglow. Our delight and pleasure lies in praesepio. And so it goes in the middle of the phrase, it switches from English right into Latin. He's lying in prsepio in the, in the Kressh. And so the text itself is a lot of wordplay where it jumps between the English and the Latin. And so a vowel that is in the Latin or that's in the English at the end of the line rhymes with a Latin vowel in the next line. And so it's almost like wordplay. There's a lot of cleverness in it and it's got a really inborn charm. In the 19th century there is a translation so that like pretty much all of the Latin is taken out. And we have Good Christian men rejoice. This is done by the hymnographer John Mason Neal. Funny thing about it is that the, the melody which comes from a collection called Pie Canciones, is, was mistranscribed by, by Thomas Helmore, who is the musical editor. And so you've got this funny thing where you know as you're going along, you're, you're singing. Good Christian men rejoice with hearts and hands and voice Give ye heed to what we say. News, news that repeated news news was not actually intended. And so you have this accidental sort of odd measure in many of the editions of the Carol. Many subsequent editions of the Carol have removed that. But a lot of people, myself included, feel there's a certain charm in that mistake that kind of makes it gives it a kind of a distinctiveness where it kind of hangs around on that little repeated note. And it also kind of adds to the dance like quality of it with this sort of grounded note right in the middle of the phrase, like that. And so, so the carol has, you know, a lot of interesting features about it in, in that respect. I think the, you know, the, there's always a, there's always a point where this melody kind of gets you back to fundamentally the idea of a swing dance of some kind.
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Scott Bertram
Good Christian Men Rejoice is the oldest of the songs that we've discussed in our conversations. How does that perhaps affect its, its style or how it's different from other carols of the season?
- [50:43]
Dr. Timothy McDonnell
Well, you know, the high art music of this period of the 14th century would have been some of the most complex compositions that the west has ever produced. Which is interesting because you think, well, you know, if you go back that far, it certainly must get simpler. Well, in fact, it gets much harder. And so medieval music of that period is really quite difficult to sing. It's called Ars Nova is the period and it's extremely sophisticated. And it was meant to be because of the importance of number and proportion and this, this kind of idea of the complexity of creation reflecting the nature of God and, and how there was this golden mean in music. So it was highly sophisticated musical culture at the time. And this is a kind of a simple folk like melody based on sort of the triad. Could Christian men Rejoice? It's kind of a very. There's a chord that you can hear in that, in just those five, five or so notes that start it. Well, that's a very basic folk strum, as it were, with some kind of a stringed instrument, as a zither or some kind of a simple harmonic instrument. And the melody does retain that. What's interesting about that is that you can, you can a lot of these old melodies that persist for so long eventually get a second life. And composers like J.S. bach, you know, possibly the most, the composer with the capacity for the greatest complexity in musical composition used this regularly as a, as a, as a theme in his own compositions, especially some notable organ works based on the melody in Dulci Ubilo, as well as a fabulous cantata by Dietrich Buxtehude, who is a contemporary of Bach a little bit older. Franz Liszt uses the melody in one of his piano works. Gustav Holst uses it in a piece called A Choral Fantasy for Christmas Day. And then there's a tremendous eight voice motet that's a lot of fun to sing, not easy, but by Robert Pearsall, who was a expatriate Englishman living in Liechtenstein of all places, where he Wrote this. And so it's got a simplicity about it that what, what the benefit of that simplicity is that it's translatable into many different styles. There's something about that harmonic structure that you can lift from. From the Middle Ages and place it in the Baroque and place it in the Romantic era, place it in the modern era as well. And so the tune has, because of that musical, that fundamental structure, if you will, it has incredible transferability.
- [53:34]
Scott Bertram
Talking with Dr. Timothy McDonald about could Christian Men Rejoice in terms of the song's popularity. We were talking before we began, you said this was a super hit.
- [53:44]
Host/Announcer (Scott Bertram)
This would have been number one of.
- [53:45]
Scott Bertram
The charts way back when.
- [53:47]
Host/Announcer (Scott Bertram)
Very popular song.
- [53:48]
Dr. Timothy McDonnell
Absolutely. This would have been the Christmas Carol par excellence through much of the late Middle Ages into the Renaissance. And it was also quite cosmo. I mean, sort of. It was continentally appreciated in, you know, Protestant cities, Catholic cities in England and France. It was a well known tune. It actually is currently at the zenith of its popularity, if I can say that. In terms of its publication in hymnals as of 2023, it's in about 50% of all the hymnals that are that are currently in. In publication in the United States anyway. And so it has never been more popular, interestingly enough, as far as publication is concerned. It's not programmed that often, in my experience, but I think it ought to be because it's one of the catchier tunes and it's also kind of tune that is going to plug you into a tremendous history of melody that is at least legendarily descended straight from heaven.
- [54:53]
Scott Bertram
You mentioned that the translations and part of this is both English and Latin, but it began German and Latin. There are some translations that take the Latin completely out.
- [55:02]
Host/Announcer (Scott Bertram)
What do we lose or do we.
- [55:03]
Scott Bertram
Lose anything when those events happen? From going from the original languages into tertiary or other languages?
- [55:11]
Dr. Timothy McDonnell
Absolutely. It is actually a big problem because. Well, this one has. First I'd say, so you have Latin and German and then you had Latin and Swedish was the next iteration with the pie canciones. And then ultimately in the 19th century, Latin and English and then finally all in English. And what there is a certain, you know, I think that the, the Latin language, we don't really appreciate exactly how incredibly pervasive it is in Oxford and Cambridge. It was absolutely assumed that. That you could not just read Latin, but understand it when spoken until like the 1960s. That was what classical education, whatever we may say about it, it meant learning Latin and a bit of Greek. And so you kind of lose A certain connection to a kind of, you know, universal literacy. And also the cleverness of weaving English rhymes into Latin rhymes. I mean, that is just a really, you know, there's something poignant. And you can sort of see the. This idea of, you know, schoolboys, you know, you know, playing around with Latin, Latin rhymes and so forth as part of their own. Their own training. So I think we lose a little bit of that culture. And in general, with this hymn as well as others, you have, you. The hymn has to have a few things in English. It needs to have verse, it needs to scan so that the. That the relative weight of syllables has to be predictable and trans and it has to be repeatable. So there's. There's that aspect, and then it has to rhyme.
- [56:49]
Scott Bertram
Right.
- [56:50]
Dr. Timothy McDonnell
Rhyming in English hymnody is not optional. And there have been many, you know, unfortunately, you know, there's a new set of hymns, for instance, for the office for the Liturgy of the Hours, and they've translated it without rhyming English. It's in verse, but it doesn't rhyme. And I predict that it will utterly fail for that reason, because we have to have rhymes in our hymns, and to get it to rhyme in English, sometimes you have to depart pretty significantly from the sense of the original language. And that is a tremendous challenge. And it also requires tremendous talent on the part of the translator. They have to be so, you know, they have to be like walking dictionaries.
- [57:33]
Dr. Ken Calvert
Sure.
- [57:33]
Dr. Timothy McDonnell
It's really, it's fantastic. The kind of etymological sensitivity you have to have to really get it right is so important. And so that is a whole topic unto itself. But it's a very good question, and it's quite opposite to this particular example.
- [57:51]
Scott Bertram
Dr. Timothy McDonnell. He is Associate professor of Music and Director of Sacred Music at Hillsdale College. As we talk about good Christian men, rejoice.
- [57:59]
Host/Announcer (Scott Bertram)
Dr. McDonnell, thanks so much for joining.
- [58:01]
Scott Bertram
Us here on the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour.
- [58:04]
Dr. Timothy McDonnell
It was a pleasure. Thank you.
- [58:06]
Host/Announcer (Scott Bertram)
That will wrap up this edition of the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour. Our thanks to Dr. Ken Calvert from Hillsdale's history department and Timothy McDonnell, associate professor of music here at Hillsdale. Remember, you can hear new episodes every week on this station. You also can find extended versions of some of our interviews or listen anytime to the podcast. Find it at podcast hillsdale. Edu or wherever you get your audio. Until next week, merry Christmas. I'm Scott Bertram, and this has been the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour.
- [58:42]
Dr. Ken Calvert
Sam.