The Radio Free Hillsdale Hour

Episode: William F. Buckley Jr. and the American Character
Date: March 14, 2025
Host: Scott Bertram

Overview

This episode of The Radio Free Hillsdale Hour explores the enduring legacy and personal character of William F. Buckley, Jr.—the influential author, intellectual, and founder of National Review—through a conversation with Lawrence Perlman, author of American Impresario: William F. Buckley, Jr. And the Elements of American Character. The show also features an initial discussion on the origins and evolution of the American administrative state with Dr. Joseph Postel, associate professor of politics at Hillsdale College.

Segment 1: Bureaucracy in America — Dr. Joseph Postel

(00:47–14:48)

Main Points

• Defining the "Administrative State"

  • The "administrative state" refers to the vast system of federal agencies (EPA, SEC, OSHA, etc.) that wield substantial rule-making, enforcement, and judicial powers—often bypassing the constitutional branches.

    “Most of the power, most of the laws, most of the enforcement is really done not by the Schoolhouse Rock branches of government that you are familiar with… but this new sort of fourth branch.”
    — Dr. Joseph Postel [01:54]

• History and Civil Service Reform

  • Rooted in efforts to curb patronage in the 19th century, civil service reformers sought neutral, competent federal appointments—sparked notably by the assassination of President Garfield by a patronage seeker.
  • The Pendleton Act (1883) is commonly viewed as the origin of federal bureaucracy, but Postel stresses most advocates only sought to temper party patronage, not create an administrative leviathan.

    “Most people see the Pendleton Act... as the beginning of the bureaucracy… it’s not really what’s going on.”
    — Dr. Joseph Postel [06:05]

• Creation of the Interstate Commerce Commission (ICC) and Early Administrative Limits

  • The ICC (1887) was a response to railroad abuses, intended to regulate rates and ensure fairness.
  • However, the ICC was, by design, a “paper tiger”—lacking independent enforcement/judicial authority and constrained by close judicial oversight.

    “One person calls it an ornamental board, as useless as the fifth wheel on a wagon.”
    — Dr. Joseph Postel [09:25]

• Judicial Review and Agency Power

  • Unlike today, early agencies like the ICC had to go to court to enforce orders and did not receive judicial deference.
  • Modern agencies now have broad legislative, executive, and judicial powers, a stark contrast to 19th-century ideals.

• Progressive Era Expansion and the Real Birth of the Administrative State

  • True agency power—like the authority to set rates—arrived with the Hepburn Act (1906) under Theodore Roosevelt.
  • This shift reflected new progressive theories that emphasized expert-driven administration.

Notable Quotes and Timestamps

• “It describes an alphabet soup constellation of agencies… the real governance decisions in America are made today.”
  — Dr. Joseph Postel [01:54]

• “We want to make sure there are limits on these administrators. We don’t want… a system of government where the administrative officers have power that should belong to [Congress, the President, and Courts].”
  — Dr. Joseph Postel [11:38]

• “If a person were to ask me, ‘What is the birth date of the administrative state?’… I put it [at] 1906.”
  — Dr. Joseph Postel [13:24]

Segment 2: William F. Buckley Jr. and the American Character — Lawrence Perlman

(16:34–37:05)

Main Points

How Larry Perlman and Buckley Met

• Perlman, a first-generation American and aspiring concert pianist, was inspired by Buckley— “a light in our house” for his anti-communist role and love of classical music.
• Wrote Buckley a thank you letter offering a piano recital as gratitude; Buckley personally invited Perlman to his home to perform.

  “Much like Charlie Bucket… he had sent me a golden ticket which was the start of an incredible friendship.”
  — Lawrence Perlman [19:05]

The Friendship and Musical Bond

• Recital led to sporadic correspondence, followed by a second “bigger” letter about promoting music education, a shared passion of Buckley’s.

  “I wanted to do for classical music that which he had done for conservatism in America. And that got his attention.”
  — Lawrence Perlman [21:00]

• Buckley provided Perlman with a research grant to study the effects of music education in NYC schools.

• Buckley’s upbringing involved deep exposure to classical music and disciplined practice—a value he sought to disseminate.

Buckley’s Values and Character

• Openness & Mentorship

  • Buckley believed in responding earnestly to letters, supporting young talent, and mentoring new voices.

    “If you took time to write a letter to him, he was going to take time to write a letter back to you.”
    — Lawrence Perlman [26:00]

  • Buckley’s many proteges and broad friendships (even across ideological divides) evidenced his hospitality and sense of responsibility.

    “Milton Friedman was asked once what greatest quality Bill Buckley had, and he said, Friendship.”
    — Lawrence Perlman [27:25]

• Love of Music—Especially Bach

  • Buckley cherished the structure, order, and beauty of Bach as a model for both music and intellect.

    “Bill loved structure. He understood this foundational element… the importance of that.”
    — Lawrence Perlman [27:34]

• Philanthropy and Recognition

  • Buckley insisted on compensating Perlman for performances—out of respect for creative work.

    “I’m a writer, and I expect to be paid for my writing… you are a musician, and you’re going to be paid.”
    — William F. Buckley Jr. (recounted by Perlman) [29:27]

• Discipline

  • Habitually kept a rigorous schedule, retiring early to rise at 5 a.m. to write, reflecting respect for time and self-mastery.

    “When it hit about 10 o’clock, he was gone… up by five… an incredibly rigorous regimen.”
    — Lawrence Perlman [33:30]

• Communication

  • Buckley was a prolific correspondent with over a thousand shoeboxes of letters—valuing the written word and personal connection.

    “What did you learn from Buckley about the importance of communication? I learned in spades, really.”
    — Lawrence Perlman [31:20]

• Influence on Proteges

  • Buckley’s belief in Perlman emboldened him to pursue ambitious projects in music and media, providing a platform and confidence for broader ventures.

Reflection on Legacy

• Perlman credits Buckley as a critical mentor whose friendship, open-mindedness, and belief in the potential of others transformed his own life and ambitions.

  “All of these things became possible because Bill Buckley gave me the confidence—his belief in me.”
  — Lawrence Perlman [36:19]

Notable Quotes & Moments (Chronological Highlights)

• On Patronage and Bureaucracy:
  "The federal bureaucracy… they were appointed by the parties. They were political in nature. And what happens… is that these people are no longer put in by elected officials…"
  — Dr. Joseph Postel [04:06]

• On Music and Human Achievement:
  "Bill saw music…as one of the greatest achievements in human history."
  — Lawrence Perlman [22:58]

• On Philanthropy:
  "He didn’t take talent for granted… It comes back to mutual respect and not taking things for granted, which is an amazing quality."
  — Lawrence Perlman [29:27]

• On Mentorship:
  "If the right thing was presented to him, he would then connect. But he felt a responsibility to come back to a person with an answer."
  — Lawrence Perlman [25:26]

• On Friendship across Differences:
  "Bill Buckley was the greatest example, I think, through his program Firing Line… and through his general friendships… many others who he didn’t see eye to eye on in terms of politics or social issues… he was an incredible friend."
  — Lawrence Perlman [26:37]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:47 — Introduction of Dr. Joseph Postel; administrative state basics
• 04:06 — Pendleton Act and civil service reform context
• 06:58 — Founding of the ICC and its limited power
• 12:11 — Comparison of early vs. modern agencies
• 13:24 — The real origins of agency power (1906 Hepburn Act)
• 17:28 — Larry Perlman on meeting Buckley, their first recital
• 20:12 — The importance of communication and the second meeting
• 22:58 — Buckley’s musical upbringing and family values
• 25:26 — Reflections on Buckley’s openness and mentorship
• 27:34 — Buckley’s love of Bach
• 29:27 — Philanthropy, respect for work, and compensation
• 31:20 — The art and discipline of communication
• 33:30 — Buckley’s disciplined lifestyle
• 36:19 — Buckley’s long-term mentoring and its effects

Conclusion

This episode offers a richly personal and philosophical portrait of William F. Buckley, Jr. Beyond his political and cultural legacy, listeners witness Buckley’s devotion to friendship, the arts, discipline, communication, and mentorship—qualities that, in Perlman’s words, constitute “the elements of American character.” The initial segment provides historical and constitutional context for contemporary American governance, rounding out a broadcast rich with both intellectual history and human story.