Don’t Let Your Emotions Drive Your Financial Choices

Summary

The Ramsey Show Summary

Episode: “Don’t Let Your Emotions Drive Your Financial Choices”

Date: June 26, 2026
Hosts: Dave Ramsey & Dr. John Deloney

Episode Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show focuses on the dangers of letting emotions dictate financial decisions. Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Deloney take live calls from listeners, offering practical advice, tough love, and insights into a wide range of personal finance dilemmas. Several memorable stories surface—ranging from a parent blowing millions on cruise ship art to listeners wrestling with budget gaps, family debt, and the intersection of mental health and money. The recurring theme: sound financial choices require clarity, honesty, and boundaries, not emotion.

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Major Call-In Segments

1. Cruise Ship Art Addiction: The Perils of Emotional Spending

[00:47–09:02]
Caller: Jack, New York

• Situation: Jack’s widowed mother spent $1.1 million on art during cruise ship auctions, hidden from her family. Now her sons struggle to sell the art for pennies on the dollar.
• Key Insights:
  • This was clearly emotional spending—grief-fueled and secretive.
  • Dr. Deloney: “This is a new one for me, Jack. Well done, brother.” [01:31]
  • Dave’s suggestion: Contact the cruise company’s public relations/customer service to explain the exploitation, request they buy back the art, and appeal for mercy—not litigation.
    • Quote: “If my company had done this accidentally, we would probably consider, at least at some point, taking some inventory back and trying to help the lady out.” – Dave [05:32]
  • Advice for family: If possible, intervene more directly in parental finances, though complicated when a parent is remarried.

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2. “Where’s All Our Money Going?”: Budget Mysteries and Values-Based Decisions

[10:10–19:57]
Caller: Heidi, San Antonio

• Situation: Heidi and her husband are debt-free, earning ~$100k, but feel "stuck"—unable to save, despite no mortgage. High tuition for private school and medical bills eat up their budget.
• Key points:
  • Dave and John break down the budget line by line, but the math doesn’t add up—something’s missing.
  • Dr. Deloney: “All of these things here are choices... At some point there’s a math problem and it’s a very uncomfortable decision to look at.” [16:16]
  • Dave stresses opportunity cost and the reality of trade-offs: “By choosing to do A, I am simultaneously choosing to not do B… and C.” [19:30]
• Memorable Moment: Even Ramsey couldn’t solve the math and urged the caller to carefully review and own their choices, not assume scarcity is "just happening" to them.

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3. In-Law Wedding Debt: When “Gifts” Come with Strings

[21:59–25:41]
Caller: Jordan, Houston

• Situation: After his wedding, Jordan discovered his wife agreed with her parents to repay more than $4,000 spent above their gift budget. He was left out of the arrangement.
• Advice:
  • Dr. Deloney: “You said it was in the fine print, so did your wife know? …Okay, then pay it off. Stop the conversation today.” [23:06]
  • Dave: “Lesson learned, we don’t do any deals that we don’t both know about. Ever. Particularly with your freaking parents, who are Pharisees.” [24:09]
  • Takeaway: Always involve both partners in financial agreements, especially with family, and pay debts as agreed to avoid relational strain.

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4. Inherited Property and Stepped-Up Basis

[26:23–30:32]
Caller: Randy, Shreveport

• Situation: Caller and sister inherited a family farm and wonder about capital gains taxes if it’s sold.
• Advice:
  • Dave explains the "stepped-up basis": tax is owed only on appreciation since death, not since original purchase.
  • “If you sell it for a million dollars and it was worth a million when she passed, you have zero taxes.” – Dave [27:55]
• Practical guidance for dealing with estate assets fairly and without unnecessary tax losses.

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5. Should We Move for Quality of Life or Save Money? And… Are We Even Married?

[32:30–41:09]
Caller: Jane, North Carolina

• Situation: Not married, living with her boyfriend in his family’s beach house. She feels emotionally drained and wants out, but is anxious about the financial setback of moving.
• Advice:
  • Dave & John: Don’t play house—keep finances separate until legally married. Jane is extremely vulnerable—emotionally, legally, and financially.
    • “You are so vulnerable—Honey, you’re scaring me to death for you. If you were my niece, I’d come get you out of that house.” – Dave [36:04]
  • Big Take: Never pay off a partner’s debt, share assets, or commit to living arrangements until married.

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6. Medicaid and Elder Care: Use Mom’s Money for Her Care

[43:49–50:00]
Caller: Karen, Orlando

• Situation: Aging mother needs nursing care; daughter wonders whether to shelter assets for inheritance or spend them as intended for care.
• Dave’s Strong Guidance:
  • “Medicaid is welfare… If it was my mom, I would use her house money to take care of her at a higher quality of care.” [45:18]
  • Challenge the myth that it’s “the system taking her money”—it’s about dignity and quality, not just protecting an inheritance.

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7. Spousal Out-of-Control Spending: Separate Accounts or Separate Paths?

[54:03–59:50]
Question: Carissa, Washington (via email)

• Situation: Husband spends thousands monthly on fast food, has binge eating disorder and ADHD, draining their savings.
• Analysis:
  • Dr. Deloney: “He’s unable or unwilling to go get the help he needs. That’s the big red flag.” [54:57]
  • Dave: “Separating your accounts to not deal with your husband’s problems is not a plan.” [56:08]
  • Their message: Protect yourself, but also confront issues head-on with counseling and accountability. Don’t use separate finances to ignore a marital problem; it’s a last-ditch move.

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Additional Notable Segments & Advice

Investing, Risk & Single Stocks

[76:14–85:24]

• Caller: Pete, Boston – Should he sell highly concentrated company stock (40% of net worth)?
• Advice:
  • Dave: “Money’s like manure... left in one pile, it stinks.” [77:19]
  • Sell, pay the taxes, and diversify—don’t let market success lull you into dangerous overconfidence.
  • Never let emotions (“I’ve been lucky so far!”) drive investing.

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Starting a Veterinary Practice: Realism, Planning & “Minimal Functional”

[86:20–94:27]

• Young couple ask: How to prep for launching a vet clinic post-debt payoff.
• Dave’s Rules:
  • “It’s going to take twice as long, cost twice as much, and you’re not the exception.” [87:04]
  • Buy used equipment, start small, avoid “scope creep.”
  • Save cash aggressively, but don’t abandon retirement savings for years unless it drastically speeds progress.

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EQ > IQ: Keeping a Job Requires Emotional Maturity

[117:19–126:15]

• Caller: Maria, Atlanta (fired from 9 engineering jobs)
• Message:
  • Dr. Deloney: “When I sign up to do any job anywhere... there’s a social component. Here’s how we do this job here.” [120:20]
  • True career stability demands emotional regulation, not just technical credentialing.
  • Therapy is only effective if it includes practice and role-play—not just venting.

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The “Marriage Advantage” and Adapting After Loss

[106:13–112:58]

• Caller: Hugh, Kansas (widowed, 4 children)
• Key Comfort:
  • “The marriage advantage is a series of averages over a long period of time… but you’re not at a distinct disadvantage once widowed.” – Dave [110:05]
  • Dr. Deloney: “Honor your wife, write her a letter every day, get up and do the next right thing for your kids. You’re a good, good man.” [112:58]

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Memorable Quotes & Takeaways

• “If you love somebody and they’re doing something stupid, you stand between them and stupid.” – Dave [04:30]
• “All of these things at some point are choices.” – Dr. Deloney [16:16]
• “Don’t pay Jeff’s debt.” – Dave, referring to avoiding cohabitation finances [40:27]
• “Medicaid is welfare…if it were my mom, I would use her money to take care of her at a higher quality of care.” – Dave [45:18]
• “Money’s like manure…it grows things when it’s spread around. Left in one pile, it stinks.” – Dave [77:19]
• “It’s going to take twice as long, cost twice as much, and you’re not the exception.” – Dave [87:04]
• “The ability to play well with others is a bigger deal [than intelligence].” – Dave [123:05]

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Episode Themes & Tone

• Language & Tone: Classic Ramsey style—plainspoken practicality, humor, and bluntness ("French—oui, oui? Not you!").
• Core Themes:
  • Don’t let emotional pain, fear, or grief cloud financial decisions.
  • Know exactly where your money goes; ruthlessly audit your budget.
  • Relationships and finances are inseparable—shared decisions, shared vulnerability.
  • Long-term success is about discipline, clarity, boundaries, and incremental wins—not emotional swings (“Ground and pound, baby!” [85:23]).

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For Listeners Unfamiliar With The Show

This episode is a masterclass in the intersection of psychology and money. Whether it’s protecting yourself before marriage, confronting a loved one's addiction, or unraveling the math behind perceived scarcity, Dave and Dr. Deloney emphasize that wise financial choices are rarely about math alone—they’re about courage, awareness, and deliberate values-based living.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John DeLoney Ramsey, personality number one best selling author, host of the Dr. John DeLoney show, co host. Today open phones here at Triple 882-55-5225 Jackson, New York. Hi, Jack, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing very well. How are you, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can we help today?

[Caller]

Oh, hope you can help me. My mother, after dad died, went on a series of cruises and as you may or may not know, on cruise ships they have art auctions where basically you're buying overpriced art after you've had a few drink. And my mother on a series of six cruises spent $1.1 million on cruise ship art. You can't get into her house. There's so much cruise ship art in the bedrooms and everything. My brother and I are trying to sell it at auctions and stuff. We're only getting 10 cents or 20 cents on the dollar. And I know you good folks, I've seen it all. I thought maybe you could give me a suggestion or something.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

This is a new one for me, Jack. Well done, brother.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Wow, that's disturbing. Yeah. So how many cruises?

[Caller]

I believe six or seven cruises. And she kept it from the family.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean like you, you guys, you guys didn't go inside of her house for six or eight months?

[Caller]

Oh, no. We would go in and we saw some art there, but she had it in the garage. And after time went on, it got worse and worse. So we did some of it when we went into her house and we thought, okay, mom spending five or six grand, she's worth a lot of money. Once have a little fun. Then she just kept doing it. And we kept trying to get her to stop, but she would just disappear and go on cruise ships and keep buying all this stuff.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Is she, is she, Is she broke now?

[Caller]

Good question. She has. She's living comfortably as opposed to super comfortably. So she's getting by. She's not worried. We're no worried. Where next meals coming from. But the little extras, that's where she know she's struggling with.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, we're not. There's not another million dollars to buy art with.

[Caller]

No, thank goodness, no, there is not.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Does she recognize she has a problem?

[Caller]

She did towards the very end. And we had no idea she was spending that kind of money again. We thought it's not good. It's sloppy. But she saved all her life. She was. I use the same tea bag twice type of person. And she just. I think she lived with her parents, got married to my f. Who would have squashed it in two seconds. How long passed away.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long after he passed did this go on?

[Caller]

It started about, oh, I'd say a year and a half to two years after he died.

[Dave Ramsey]

So this was her wicked weird way of grieving.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm sorry. I. You know, I've been on cruise ships. I've seen those art auctions. I have purchased precisely zero dollars in that stuff. I'm not an art critic. I don't know anything about art, nor would I know where to move it. You know what I would do is this. Do you. Well, I guess. Is she mentally incompetent or just. Was just dumb?

[Caller]

Ah, I think she was just dumb. She had like. It's almost like.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because otherwise she. I mean, like, if she met with her medical doctor, he would say she was in her right mind. She was just grieving in a very inappropriate way.

[Caller]

Well, she was remarried at the time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where did he go?

[Caller]

But he just didn't do any. He didn't do anything. He's kind of. He's kind of not the type of guy that would tell her what to do. And keep in mind, that was her money, my father. It was their money to get.

[Dave Ramsey]

I got. I got that. But still, I mean, if you love somebody and they're doing something stupid, you stand between them and stupid. But. So Bozo has no backbone. All right? The only thing that pops into my head, and I have no idea is if I were you guys, I would get in touch with the cruise line and try to work your way into the publicity side of the cruise line or the customer service side of the cruise line and say, you know, here's what has happened on your cruise line. Was it all on one line?

[Caller]

I think so. Maybe two different. But it's the same company.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I would just say, here's what's happened on the line. So we have a widow here that you all accidentally took extreme advantage of. We're not saying there was malicious intent on the part of the crews, but the crews just took a million dollars from her for art that's not worth a million dollars. And we're gonna ask you to buy it back and put it on the cruise ship and resell it and make your money back as a PR decision.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you don't really want me telling the whole world on social media that your cruise line took a million dollars from a widow. And I'm getting ready to. And I honestly don't think you guys did it on purpose, but I do think you need to do something about it because you should have had some kind of checks and balances in place because you've got widows and old people cruising with you every day. And if you guys are taking advantage of the other people at this level, even if you don't mean to, you should stop it. It's wrong. And so, like, if my company had done this accidentally, we would probably consider, at least at some point, percentage 50% or something, taking the inventory back in and trying to help the lady out, because obviously she's out of control. And we were contributing. Not knowing it, but we were contributing. If my company did that or I.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

One thing about our company is we want people to be better off after they've been with us than before. And if we find out somebody was exponentially worse off.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, we would try to help fix that. But. And I do, honestly, I. You know, it's not like it's a gambling thing. So if it's a gambling thing and your name shows up on the watch list of problem gambler, they shut you down and keep you from gambling. But they don't have that for art auctions.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Right. Especially on cruise ships.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. So there's no way to. There's no database that they should have been accessing to protect them. I mean, it's just a customer. They got millions of customers. And this customer just liked art. And so our cruise ship art in

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

particular, but also wasn't well or healthy at the time. Yeah, the.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm gonna ask for some mercy from and some help.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm not gonna do it with accusing you guys of having done something wrong, but I am gonna say the net result is you caused something wrong to happen. And we're gonna ask for some help.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah, the. If she. It's a new wrinkle that she's remarried. If she wasn't married, I would. Jack, I would. I would get with you and your siblings and sit down with mom and say, we would like to take ownership of your finances. We want to help out from here on out. And we'll make sure you got a roof over your head. We'll make sure this money is managed. Well, it's complicated now that she's got a new spouse that they may want to co manage that together or whatever. But I would sit down and at least offer the help you can.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've never. I mean, I've heard.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

I've never heard this one.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've seen hundreds of thousands of dollars on Shopping Network.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Sure. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Seeing that they're sitting lonely.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And just keep calling so they can talk to somebody and buying whatever stuff. They got a basement full of stuff they don't need. I've seen that multiple times over the years. The art auction on the cruise ship. This is the first one. First one, 35 years, you got to have a new one every day.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Heidi's in San Antonio. Hi, Heidi, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi. Doing well. Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

Well, we are done with baby steps one, two and six. And we've been done with those for more than four years now. Plus we have about three months saved for an emergency fund. But for the last four years, we've been stuck and not able to save at all. And don't really see any possibilities of moving on to step four. And our kids are out of the house, which is at least eight, nine years away.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't have a payment in the world?

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're stuck?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where's all the money going?

[Caller]

Well, we don't have a mortgage, but you can call paying for our two kids private school a mortgage because it is almost a fourth of our take home pay.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Well, that's where it is.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's where that is.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I mean, what is your household income

[Caller]

monthly?

[Dave Ramsey]

Annually? Monthly. I don't care.

[Caller]

Well, annually we have about. Just about $100,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

And $25,000 is going to private schools, which leaves $75,000 with no payments.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Minus food and lights and property taxes.

[Caller]

Yeah. And a lot of gas. We live about 35 minutes from anything, so we spend a lot of money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not that much gas. There's not $70,000 worth of gas.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah. Where's it going for real? Do you all budget it out?

[Caller]

Yes, sir, we do. We did the FPU about 10 years ago, and so we're not using the app, but I do on our computer. A monthly budget, and we pretty much stick to it. Besides, we have had some medical bills that we've had to pay. And yes, I would say probably over 500, $600 a month. Probably more than that. We're paying towards medical things.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who's you?

[Caller]

I am. I have Lyme and also my husband. We've had all kinds of things. He. I had to have surgery and missed out on two months of work this year. So that. That's this year.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Tell me about the private schools. Because $25,000 for two private school tuitions. Either that's very inexpensive private schools, or that's not the real number. Is it more than 25,000 a year?

[Caller]

Well, we have a partial tuition grant, so right now we're paying about when I said a quarter of. It's a quarter of our take home pay. Besides, you know, whatever's taken out of the paycheck, which includes some dental and that kind of thing. But we're paying right now $1400 a month for both of the girls to go.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you have. But because you've got some kind of a subsidy, Is that what you're saying?

[Caller]

Oh, yes, sir. Yes, sir. Okay. We have a little bit of a grant.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Just that the math isn't mathing for me, and it may be me, but I can't make the numbers work.

[Dave Ramsey]

$100,000 is $8,300 a month, so you should be taking home right around 7,000 bucks. 6,500 to $7,000. Not counting health insurance and not counting 401k. Are you putting money in 401k?

[Caller]

No, sir, we're not. We're taking.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you getting home with? 6500? 7000.

[Caller]

About 6600.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good guess, Dave. And.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

So minus 1400, right?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's minus food and lights and car gasoline for a 35 mile drive.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

So let's say that's $2,000 a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's still thousands of dollars missing in this discussion.

[Caller]

Well, I can give you some of our biggest line items. You know, we do tithe every month. We've got our, we set aside for property taxes. We got our, we do medical needs sharing ministry, which is. That's about $800 a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you, you're not purchasing health insurance at work then?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, all right. No problem with any of that. That still doesn't get you there.

[Caller]

Yeah, well, we can add in some of our other items like you said, like electricity, homeowners insurance, Internet, phone. Like I said, we don't eat out. I'm looking down our budget to see some of our bigger line items. I mentioned the medical staff.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why have you. I'm not debating it, but since the largest item in the budget so far is still what you started with and what you led with, and that's private schools. Why have you made the decision for private schools?

[Caller]

We really enjoy and value the education that our girls are getting at the school where they go.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

I totally support that, but could they each not earn $700 a month?

[Caller]

Well, they're 9 and 13, so.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Oh, I thought you said the kids were out of the house. I'm sorry.

[Caller]

Oh, no, no, no. I said that earlier.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you value the education, the quality of the education or the content of the education?

[Caller]

Both. Both. It's a very good school and we see the way the seniors turn out when they leave the school and,

and

they have a really good portrait of a senior there.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

So the thing you have to own is you're making a values based decision on. We want our kids to maybe look like this kind of senior someday. And we want to have no retirement and we want to have no savings. I mean, at some point there's a math problem and it's, it's a very uncomfortable decision to look at. Hey, we don't want to buy insurance through our business. We want to do this ministry sharing program. Okay. That's a choice you can make. All of these things here are choices. We want to drive an F250 instead of a Prius. Like all these things are choices. We want to live way out in the country and because we like that life, instead of selling our house and maybe moving closer to town, all of these things at some point. Medical is not a choice. Food, it sounds like it's not a choice. Y' all aren't extravagant. But these other things are choices.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm still not finding it all.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

I'm not either. But you have to balance. We're choosing this over this. I think, Dave, one of the illusions is I should be able to do everything I want regardless of how much money I've got in front of me. And it's just not the way it works. It's just not. It's just not. I say this with all of the great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can you imagine where she would be if they had two car payments, a student loan and a MasterCard payment like most people?

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, they would be bankrupt.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah, they'd be over. It'd be over.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they make $100,000 a year.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

See, that's what doesn't compute. Yeah, there's something, there's something off. So, yeah, I think you guys are making, you are making choices, but there's also some kind of a mystery here in the budget. And I would want you to sit down with your spouse and the two of you look at this budget very, very carefully and say, okay, we're starting with $8,333 a month. That's $100,000 a year minus taxes. We're getting home with 6,600. And then after we pay property tax and lights and water and food and transportation, here's what we have left and here's what we're choosing to do with what we have left. And is that what we want to choose?

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Is that what we want to choose?

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's what you've got to decide. So I don't hear extravagance. No, I just can't fill up all the thousand dollar holes I have in the math while I'm working with you here. I can't get there. I got 6600, minus 1400, minus property taxes, minus, you know, food and lights and water, and minus 800, minus a tithe of 60, 660 bucks. And you know, and so. Or maybe you're tithing on the gross. 83, 830 bucks. Okay, either one. Still not there. I'm still not down to zero and I don't hear massive amounts of waste or something. I just don't know what it's going to. And usually when I'm having these discussions, I can keep talking and all of a sudden a $1,200 car payment appears and I know what's going on, but I've not found that in this discussion, so I can't. I'm not. I'm sorry I wasn't able to be more help, but that's the thoughts I have on what you guys are facing. Heidi I would dig further into it and then, as John said, consciously make the choices. It says there's a thing called opportunity cost on money. By choosing to do A, I am simultaneously choosing to not do B and

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

C and own that choice. Yeah, it's not happening to you. It's a choice you're making in the affirmative.

[Caller]

Foreign.

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[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Well, if you want to work the Ramsey plan and you want to follow the baby steps and you want to move out of debt and into wealth, the easiest, fastest way to do it is by putting together a plan on EveryDollar. The EveryDollar app will make you accountable for every dollar every month. And you'll place those dollars with personal coaching, customized plans exactly where they need to be placed on the baby steps to get you out of debt the fastest and into wealth the fastest. Download it for free on the App Store or Google Play. Every dollar Jordan is in Houston. Hey Jordan, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing well. How are you guys doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can we help?

[Caller]

So my me and my wife, we got married a year and a half ago and her parents very generously paid for the wedding. But a kind of a piece of fine print that I was unaware of when they offered to do that was that any dollar that we spent above what they had allotted, we would owe back to them. And so And I was essentially uninvolved with the planning of the wedding and wasn't aware of that. And so pretty quickly after we got married, we got a bill sent to us for a few thousand dollars that, you know, they told us, hey, there's no interest on it, pay it back when you can. But as we're starting to. We. We recently purchased a cash from a member of my family, which has kind of resurfaced this conversation with my wife of what's our plan for paying this off? And her parents have had a lot of conversations with her about it, but never with me. And so I was just going to ask for help how to move forward with this.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

You said it was in the fine print, so did your wife know?

[Caller]

She did know.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Okay, then pay it off. Stop the conversation today.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Like, you're. It's costing you all mental calories. It's going to cost you a relationship. And like, I consider all day and pontificate like, man, not. That was not cool to get a bill from your. But that was the. That was the handshake agreement they made with their daughter.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is it? Yeah, how much did she. How much did your wife go over budget on your wedding?

[Caller]

A little over $4,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you've paid how much so far?

[Caller]

A few hundred, maybe 500.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what's your household income?

[Caller]

140,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Write them a check today.

[Caller]

Cool.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your wife made her parents a promise, and lesson learned, we don't do any deals that we don't both know about.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ever. Particularly with your freaking parents, who are Pharisees. Got it. No more money deals with your parents, honey, ever.

[Caller]

Word.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, because this is. This is awkward, strange, weird, but she did the deal. Write the check.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

And it may be her parents are struggling and they stretched and did whatever

[Dave Ramsey]

and they're just weird. It's four grand. Who sends a bill kid their kid for four grand? I mean, I know, I know.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

I'm trying to be generous.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not. I've done. We've had three of them get married and the budgets were horrendous, and they stuck to their budgets. And we laid out the budget ahead of time. We agreed to fund it, and if it went over that, they came out of their pocket with it. We didn't come out of our pocket. They didn't go over. They stuck to the budget. It was generous. They had a great wedding. We had big parties. We loved doing it all. I love big parties. I love weddings and babies and grandkids and all the things that happen when you have weddings. It's all awesome. Go do all of it. But parents, seriously. And kids, don't make a deal like this and not tell your spouse, your fiance, oh, I promised my dad $40,000 back. Oops, I forgot to tell you. Thank God it's only four.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Right? And you make 140 grand. Right. The check today say, sorry it took

[Dave Ramsey]

so long, not worth it.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

It'll never happen again.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I promise you'll never happen again because we will do no more money deals with you people ever. Yes, because you didn't bother to include me and you should have in that discussion. That's the parent. That's on the parents.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

You think so? I think it's on the wife.

[Dave Ramsey]

Absolutely. They should have included her. I promise you, if I'm looking at Rachel Cruz going, if you go over this, you got to pay, I'm going to look at Winston and say, and, oh, by the way, she's going to be your problem.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

That's fair. It's going to be Yalls problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

Man up. Right? I did tell him that, but it wasn't about money. Yeah, Winston, she's gonna be your problem now. He reminds me of that.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Okay. Yeah. Sometimes Winston's sitting on my front porch and he's like, man, it's my problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

Go and see Dr. Deloney. Randy's in Shreveport. What's up, Randy?

[Caller]

Doing good. Doing good. How are you, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Okay, so give you kind of a backdrop. So I retired last year in March at the age of 63. And my mother passed away in May of that same year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, man.

[Caller]

And she willed. She willed her farm to me and my sister. There are no other names within that wheel other than my sisters and man, so now I'm just. Just beginning to get on Social Security. She's been on Social Security for a long time. And with the earnings cap and IRMAA and everything else, how do we. Can we secure the farm in a trust so that we don't get hit with capital gain tax?

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you going to sell it?

[Caller]

More than likely, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, your basis in the property is its market value at the time. Your mother passed away one year ago. Okay.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what was the farm worth a year ago?

[Caller]

Okay, so far. Was recently reappraised by the county. Now, the county doesn't count at the time she.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you think? What do you think the farm is really worth? The county is a tax assessment. That's not an actual value. That's just assessment for taxes. It's not. Not an appraisal. What do you think? If you were going to put it on the market, what would you put it on the market for?

[Caller]

Probably around one male.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Was it worth more than a million last year when she passed? Probably not.

[Caller]

Probably not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, probably wasn't. It wasn't worth 700,000. Went up 300 in one year, right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

Actually, the appraisal went from 300,000 to 700,000 in one year.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the tax assessment.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

That's not the real estate market.

[Dave Ramsey]

That is not a real appraisal. Hear me? Okay. Your tax assessor does not give you accurate values. Zillow does not give you accurate values. You have to get an actual appraisal on the property. And. And you could do that based on a year ago. So here's the thing. Let's pretend for a second that the farm a year ago was worth a million dollars and the farm today is worth a million dollars. And you sell it for a million dollars. You have zero taxes. You've had no gain because your basis in the property, for purposes of calculating capital gains, and the gain is over the amount over the basis. Your basis is the value, the market value. Not the tax assessor, not Zillow. The real appraisal at the time of death, and it's only been one year, and it's a farm in Louisiana. It's probably not gone up in value hardly at all in one year. Maybe a little bit, but not much. And if it did, it's probably going to get eaten up with selling cost anyway. So you need to see your tax professional. And if you don't have one, just go to ramseysolutions.com and what I would do is sell it and I would claim that it was sold for market value and there was zero gain. If you're ever audited, you'd have to go back and have an appraisal done at the time of death and compare that to the actual sale price to prove that there was no actual gain. But I don't think you have any gain. If you had $100,000 gain, it's only $15,000 worth of taxes. It's not that big a deal.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

And this is news to me. I'm glad you're teaching me this. So if she had sold that farm right before she passed, she would have had to pay taxes, capital gains on all the growth from when she got it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

But if she held onto it and

[Dave Ramsey]

passed it, it's called a stepped up basis.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So when you inherit a Capital asset, stock, property, anything else the basis goes from. Mom's old basis was all the way up to market value basis. And if so, if you sell a stock, you know, Grandpa left me a million dollars in Exxon stock and he had only $20,000 in it. You pay zero tax if you sell it within a few months of grandpa's death.

[Caller]

Wow. Huh. Sa.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Jane is in North Carolina. Hi Jane, how are you? Well, let's try again. Hey Jane, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing good. Hi.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

What's up?

[Dave Ramsey]

What's up?

[Caller]

Hey.

So my question today is how do you decide when it's worth spending money to improve your quality of life versus staying in a situation that helps you reach your financial goals faster? So my boyfriend and I are credit debt, credit card debt free. Been working on that for a while and now we're trying to save for our future. And we currently live at his mother's beach house. Originally we were supposed to stay there for free while we paid off debt and saved. But his father passed away and we started paying the mortgage mortgage instead. The payment's pretty reasonable. We could probably pay about the same to rent elsewhere. But the problem is is it's a revolving door. It's constant. Family is coming down to visit. It does not feel like home and I'm over it. So to move out to a rental. We have to spend thousands on deposits, moving costs, which feels like setting our goals, but so financially, it's smarter to stay. But emotionally, I want out.

[Dave Ramsey]

You sound like someone that's married, but you're not.

[Caller]

Yeah.

Yeah.

And we're.

We're talking marriage. It's. It's really tough. We've been in a very, like, debt, paying off debt mindset.

[Dave Ramsey]

We don't need to be doing anything. We aren't married.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah. Like, this is a weird thing. You've locked yourself in a cage, but the lock is on the inside.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Like, we.

[Dave Ramsey]

We don't need to be paying off debt. You need to be paying off your debt. He needs to be paying off his

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

debt, and you don't need to be putting up with his. His family and his drama and his. Like, you get what I'm saying?

[Dave Ramsey]

We aren't married. You have a roommate.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah. And his family. And his family. Legally, all the time.

[Dave Ramsey]

And morally, you have a room.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

But.

Okay. And I. I agree. And, you know, we're. We're moving towards marriage. It's just. It's hard to. It's hard to even comprehend a wedding or, like a ring or anything when we've been like, you know, we just paid off $30,000 in debt and we have our $1,000 saved, which just.

[Dave Ramsey]

We don't. You don't understand, honey. You're not married. You don't have anything.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Here's the other side of this.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have a bought. You have a they. Hey. You're paying off debt with your roommate. You are so vulnerable and so unaware of how vulnerable you are in this situation.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

That's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

He just pulls up stakes and leaves. You know what? You are screwed.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah. Or if he says, this is my family's house, I'm never going to leave. I don't care how you feel.

[Dave Ramsey]

Door, babe.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah. Get out.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're screwed. You've been paying off his credit card debt. Calling it we ain't no we.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

You've been paying down his family's beach house mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

You have nothing.

[Caller]

So he. So, okay. And this is the way we set it up. So he pays for all of our living expenses, including the mortgage and all of that. And I pay the debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

His debt, his debt. You're paying your roommate's debt while he pays his mother's mortgage.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

You are so exposed right now. That's what I'm trying to say. Like, are you really in a very complex.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you really think I've lost my mind when you Have?

[Caller]

What do you recommend that I do?

[Dave Ramsey]

I recommend y' all quit acting like a wee. Unless you get married this weekend. I'm dead serious. You are so vulnerable. Honey, you're scaring me to death. For you, if you were my niece, I'd come get you out of that house and tell you to put Bozo on the street till he puts a ring on it. You are so vulnerable. You think about how much money of his debt have you paid off?

[Caller]

Well, I'd say we were about, like, 50. 50? We had about 30,000. Like, 15, you know, rough numbers. 15 of that being mine, 15 of that being his.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And he puts you on the street. You know what you get? Nothing, honey.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Zero.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Zero. You catching this is. This is vulnerable.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

And listen, Dave and I would not have jobs if everyone's magical plans always worked out.

[Caller]

Out.

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

You know what I mean? And so I. I don't want to wish y' all ill. I hope it all works out. I hope he marries you this weekend. That'd be awesome. But I only have a job because it never works out like that. Or. That's not true.

[Caller]

It.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

It sometimes does, but it often doesn't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, yeah, all the times that it doesn't is why we get to do what we do, which is sad for us. Yeah. And people that we love, like you, we. We. We're scared for you. And so. Yeah, so what you all need to do is you need to have different housing arrangements, and you need to separate everything in your lives until you're married because you're completely vulnerable.

[Caller]

So you think I should move out?

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Here's why. You started this call by saying, I can't do this anymore.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And guess what? He didn't call. You did.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah, like you calling and telling two guys who care about you, hey, I'm not. Okay? And the man who says, I want to spend my life with you, we'll just do it later, doesn't have that same care for you. That's a flag for me. That's a big red flag for me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And, you know, so even if you're going to shack up, folks, keep everything separate. Don't sign leases together, don't buy cars together. Don't pay each other's bills. I mean, just decide who's going to buy the mustard. That's it. You know? Okay, the lunch meat's mine. The mustard's yours. We'll share that. Okay? But. I mean, but everything. You know, do not get on these deals together, because the number of times someone has Called in here and said, oh, well, you know, I can't find my old boyfriend that I used to live with after I bought him a car. And I'm on the note and the note's in my name and the car's in my name, but I can't find him or the car where I paid

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

off all of his debt. And then. And he left me. How do I get that money back?

[Dave Ramsey]

I got pregnant and he didn't like that, so he left me with a kid. Oh, that one we get all the time. You are so vulnerable. Y' all are just acting like you're married. You're not married. So legally and relationally, you're not prepared to be married, but you're paying his debt. I mean, when you just say this out loud, it sounds cray cray.

[Caller]

Right?

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

And. And to answer your bigger question multiple times, and me and my wife working to get out of debt, we took steps backwards for not debt wise, but we did say, hey, we need to move to this place. And here's what that cost is going to be and here's what the ROI on that move is going to be. We did actually do that twice. And so I, I didn't see that as a step back. I took that. I saw that as a necessary move to get us where we wanted to go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

So sometimes that's part of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So this, this beach house did if, if you were married and you called with the exact same call the speech house out like as promised because sadly he lost his dad. And so now your mom, your mother in law, your future mother in law maybe is in trouble and probably needs to sell the beach house because you guys aren't going to pay the payment anymore. And so she's going to have to. And then all the other people who are coming and visiting all the time are going to have to and all that stuff. But the deal changed. And so the deal changed.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

The deal changed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So I had a roommate in college named Jeff. We're friends to this day. I talked to him last weekend and I never paid any of his debt.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I like Jeff. Yeah, he's a good guy. I mean, I'm still like 40 years later. We still talk. I like Jeff, but I never paid any of his debt.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is the rule. Don't pay Jeff's debt. That's the rule.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

On your 40th anniversary of total money makeovers, we a new chapter called don't pay Jeff's debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's it. That's what we're Going to call it, and poor Jeff's going to get thrown under the bus. But I'll call him. I'll call him and tell him to watch for the bus. It's coming. Blum. Blum. Yeah. So bus tracks.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

I had friends, roommates in college that helped me out when I was in a hard spot who might cover the rent for a few months, who might be like, dude, I'll don't pay me back for dinner tonight. That's called being a friend. But we never got into, hey, dude, I'm going to buy you a car and I'll just put my name on the note. You drive it. Just pay me back later and you

[Dave Ramsey]

pay the rent and I'll pay for your car.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

We don't have those discussions with your roommate because you're vulnerable. That's why. But when you're married, the law says everything is combined. And morally, legally, spiritually, everything's combined. It's ours. We, we, we, we, we, we. But when you're not married, there's no we.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's not it. It's not happening. You're not French. It's not we, We. Oui, oui. It's not French. Okay, you're not married. So you guys are getting yourselves in so much trouble, all of you out here doing this. And I know I'm pissing all of you off because you always write all these, tell me I need to be married. Well, then don't listen to the show because I'm going to tell you to be married because it's the best way. You end up with a strong net worth and a high quality of life. You live longer, your life is better, your kids have a better outcomes, everybody involved wins. Let me tell you what I get asked all the time, when should I get term life insurance? How much do I need? Is it affordable? Those are the right questions to be asking, so let's take a quick review. The fact is, term life isn't a baby step. So if anyone is dependent on your income, you need to have 10 to 12 times your income in life insurance now. And most people are surprised by how affordable term life really is, even if you're not in perfect health. Look, I understand the hesitation since most insurance companies make it more of a hassle than it needs to be. Not at Zander Insurance. They're not an insurance company. They're a broker that works for you. That means they'll shop and compare the top term life companies to find the most competitive options on the coverage for your family. For almost 30 years, I've recommended Zander for straight answers, competitive rates and coverage that actually protects your family. Call 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com for a quick and easy quote. That's zander.com. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds credit union studio. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co host. Karen is with us in Orlando. Hi, Karen, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey, I'm great. Thank you for taking my call. I'm just going to dive right in. My mom has been in skilled nursing and she's going to need to go into a nursing home and she doesn't have any assets other than a fully paid for home. I'm working with an attorney for Medicaid eligibility. And in Florida, certain types of property are not counted towards Medicaid eligibility, including her home. And attorneys have some really unique creative options to protect that asset. My mom has asked me not to let the system take her money and I should do what is best for myself, husband and little boys. And at the same time, she doesn't have an opinion on what avenue to do for her assets. I would love to hear your perspective on if I should sell her home to pay for her care or do what she asks, which is Medicaid and I use the asset to do what is best for my family. And then, and if the latter, I'm not really sure what would be best from a Ramsey perspective.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you need to understand that Medicaid is welfare. Yes, it is nursing home, in this case provided by the welfare system for people that are poor. And if you go visit a Medicaid provided nursing home and you go visit a different nursing home that you might buy with cash, you will see a different experience. Just like if you go visit subsidized housing and welfare or you go visit a private residence, you will experience something different.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Caller]

I understand.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is the DMV of nursing homes. And so if you can't do anything but be on the street and it's the only way she can get care because she's poor, that's fine. But if it was my mom, I would use her house money to take care of her at a higher quality of care.

[Caller]

Okay. Even, even if it goes against what she's told me to do, she's under

[Dave Ramsey]

the illusion that the system is taking her money. It's not. If you go to a restaurant and you buy a meal and you give them money, the system didn't take your money. If you go to a nursing home and you give them money to take care of you. The system didn't take your money. You bought a service, the system. And she's also under the illusion that her quality of care at Medicaid is the same level as it is in private care. And it's just not. It's the difference in welfare or not. And so if you go visit these nursing homes, I think you'll come to the same conclusion.

[Caller]

Okay. Okay, I got it.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is the house worth?

[Caller]

The house is worth about. After Realtor and closing fees, she'll net about 250,000.

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not going to go a long way. How's her health?

[Caller]

Well, she's 75, so she's in average health. Her challenges and mobility, so she'd probably outlive that.

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Is this all she has?

[Caller]

Yeah, this is. This is all she has.

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, you know, the average nursing home stay once someone goes into full care is two and a half years. That's the average, which means that some go longer and some go less, obviously. Right. And so a lot of people are there six months and they're gone. But it's also, in that case, their last stop and their health was already on the decline more than hers. That brings the average down. You follow me? So you probably have a three or a four year exposure, something like that. And so that means you've got a maximum of a $70,000 spend per year.

[Caller]

I understand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So go shopping and look at this. The good news is you're in Florida and there is a wide array of options.

[Caller]

Yeah. It's almost overwhelming.

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Is she in need of full time live in care?

[Caller]

Yes. Where she is at right now, she needs two people to assist with even transferring from a bed to a wheelchair or from a wheelchair to the toilet.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it's interesting that somehow, and this is just something for you to consider philosophically and you can mix this in the bucket with my answer, but somehow in your mom's mind and in a lot of people's mind in America, that the nursing home, When I go into a nursing home, they steal my money. Like it's. The system took my money, was the phrase your mom used. Don't let the system take it all. Okay. As if nursing home care would just appear at the end of a rainbow somehow magically, without paying for it, you know, and so it's like any other service. If you want your car to be worked on, you pay the mechanic. If you want someone to provide care in your home or, you know, clean your home for you, your maid service, you pay that them. And no one looks at those people and says, the system took my money. But if you own a nursing home, you're evil and you're taking old people's money.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Dave, this is just a loony. I have a nagging fear. In my spirit, I'm hearing more of these calls where there is this reckoning happening. I'm 71, I'm 72, I'm 81. And I'm staring down the barrel of 10 years, 20 years to go. And I got nowhere to live. Or in this case, I've got family members who, they don't want me to move into their back bedroom. But there's none other option. It's either that or a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or that we use up $250,000 for it. Yeah. Which we're gonna do.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

But it's, it's a, it's a. I just thought this would thing would happen and, and it's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it's, you know. Yeah. If you got a million dollars in a mutual fund, all of a sudden the problem goes away. In other words, is what you're saying, because you've been Investing in your 401k

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

for the last 25 years for this exact moment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Just so that you can retire and not have to have your daughter have this heart wrenching decision, okay, am I going to burn through the 250 and she's still alive? That's what's running through her mind right now.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so, you know, and so if I do 70 a year, I got three and a half years. And then we got to look at what we're going to do. Now. You may have to go to Medicaid because you're broke, but that's what I would do. And so, yeah, you're right. If you're 22 and you're listening to this call, you know, this is why you get out of debt and invest money, so that you've got options in these situations. You know, we've gone so far. I never even thought about it that much because in our world it's almost like assumed that at some point you're going to spend some time in a nursing home. You know, you kind of think about that. And I never thought about it one way or the other, you know, but now that I'm getting old, it's starting to come to me, you know, I'm 65, so what do I do? And so Sharon and I, we just figured it out. We don't have to go just hire them.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

And bring them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I got a pile of money. Yeah. So I'm just gonna hire like a medical butler. Live with me. Move in the spare bedroom. I got a spare bedroom. I got. Already got one of those beds that leans up, you know, so that's just for the snoring, but the. You know, I mean, so all I gotta do is have a really like a 24 hour schedule and have a nurse. And so if Sharon's out of it, I'm just gonna put somebody in the house and take care of her. And I'll be there too. But I don't have to care for by myself and lift her when I'm not able or vice versa. You know, that kind of stuff. I don't deal with all that. I'll just hire somebody, just put a butler in there. We'll just turn the place into Downton Abbey, you know, and ring a little bell, you know, I mean, why not? It's actually going to. I've actually run the budget out of cheaper than a nursing home.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I can buy medical equipment too. You can buy it for sale. I mean, what do I need? Need? Just put me one of those little drip things in there. I can put it in there.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

You know, you can just sell it

[Dave Ramsey]

after you turn the Ramsey house into a little. Little nursing home.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Sell it on Facebook. Marketplace.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, why not?

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[Dave Ramsey]

no specific outcome is guaranteed. Our question of the Day is is sponsored by Y Refi. If missed private student loan payments are keeping you from making progress toward your goals. Why Refi may be able to help you explore refinancing with a low fixed rate and a payment you can manage, visit yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Today's question comes from Carissa in Washington. Carissa writes, my husband and I have been married for 10 years. I earn $90,000 a year and he makes about 50,000 dol year. We have joint bank accounts and we owe less than 220 grand on our mortgage. I want to put our extra money into a savings account to prepare for a future family. But he spends thousands of dollars each month on fast food. He has a binge eating disorder and adhd. If we can't agree on a food budget and he's unable to make changes regarding how much he spends on eating out, is this justification for splitting up our bank accounts? I love him dearly but fear that contributing my paycheck towards his eating out every meal enables him to make poor choices and takes away from planning for our future. I guess Dave, where I would start with this is the the word she writes he is unable to make changes. That's where I would pause and I would say he's unable or unwilling to go get the help he needs to make the changes. And that to me is the big red flag. But yeah. If you have somebody in your family who is for any number of reasons is out of control putting your family at risk or harm. Yes, you have to protect yourself. You have to protect your family.

[Dave Ramsey]

But that's not because we're going to separate the accounts so I can act like this doesn't happen. No, no. It's separating the accounts because I'm getting ready to divorce you.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah. Or I've got to protect myself and protect each other. By the way if he truly has is has disorders and emotional or psychological dysregulation and he quote unquote you you say can't control himself but is unwilling to go do the work he he needs to do, he's going to start racking up debt. It's going to it's you taking the money away is not just going to stop this problem problem. There'll be other ways he's going to go get it unless he goes and gets the help that he needs. That's the real question here is so

[Dave Ramsey]

separating your accounts to not deal with your husband's problems is not a plan

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

or to try to get him to do something different. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no. Instead, deal with the problems.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I. I'm going to force you to deal with these problems. It's a condition of us staying together.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you can't continue to do cocaine and be my husband.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah. In this case, I'm not going to watch my husband. I can't sit here and watch you die. And so I love you enough to say, let's go invest in the help you need.

[Caller]

But.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah, you've got to keep yourself safe and you got to help him have an opportunity to make choices.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I got to be honest. And you can call me out on this for my lack of compassion. Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I do believe that there are binge eating disorders. I'm positive that that occurs. This is the first time I've ever heard of a binge eating fast food disorder.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah. I, I don't. She must.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm calling bs.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I, I'm calling. Old boy wants to go by and get him some chick fil a every freaking day, every morning and every afternoon and on the way home and a big slurp or whatever he's getting and he just refuses to stop doing whatever the flip he wants to do. And she's calling it a disorder. That's my name.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Maybe. No, binge eating disorder is very, very real. 100.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, completely real. Binge eating fast food disorder. That's a nuance I've not run into.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah. That, that I'll give her the benefit that she may have just said. This is where he spends thousands of dollars, but thousands. Yeah, that's a lot of money.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a lot of chick fil a.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah, it's a lot.

[Caller]

A lot.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

A lot of fast food.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a lot of Jesus chicken. Yeah, I, I can't get. I mean, it's expensive, but I can't.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

And Carissa, like talking about a big. If you're talking about thousands, plural, of dollars on cheap, inexpensive, processed food, I, I would sit down and want to know. I'd want a detail accounting of the money because this makes me wonder, is there other stuff going on?

[Dave Ramsey]

Something else is happening.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah. Is there other things going on? Does he have other struggles? Is he struggling with other addictions that you don't know about? That's a ton of money. A lot of money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I, I come out there. I mean, I don't go to fast food, but I come out. I do go chick fil A, but I mean, it's. You come out there going, wow, there's a of lot. And I went to the new one over here. What's the burger place?

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

In and out.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

They just moved their headquarters across across the road from us over here. And so they've got one of their stops over. So I went over and got one of those because they're, like, famous for. All you California people are freaking out. It is good, but I can't imagine spending thousands.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah, it's a lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thousands with an S. Yeah, yeah, that's. You must be as big as a house.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Stop.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Why?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, how could you eat that much and not get that big?

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Well, that's what she's saying.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. I don't know. Okay, this is.

[Caller]

I'm good.

God.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like I told you, I don't know anything about this. It just feels weird. All right, so either way. Yes, but you're overstating this disorder, and it's just immaturity and an old boy doing whatever he wants to do, and it's bowing up or. Or he's actually got all of these disorder things going on. And that's very possible. We're not saying that's not happening. It's just. I never run into this one, but either way, you gotta deal with him. And the way to deal with him is to help him and not to segregate the money off and hope that's gonna fix it.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because if you push somebody that's in your home and in your life over to the side, they're going to deteriorate

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

and they're already struggling with.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're not gonna get better.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

No. Yes.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because if they could get better, they would have already gotten better by themselves.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

That's why I say he's got to go get the help he needs.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

[Caller]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Buck is in Nashville. Hi, Buck, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave. I am 22 years old. You just. On the last call, you said, if you're 22, listen up. So I just wanted to say that I am in the. I'm in the military. I'm deploying, and my wife has decided she'd like to go to grad school in Europe. And I think it's a great idea. And I just want to get your ideas on the best way for us to pay for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're going to Europe, I take it?

[Caller]

No, I. She's not going with me. I'm deploying to. Not Europe.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

I recently, Buck, I decided that I want to get a thousand acre hunting ranch for me and my friends and my family. Family. The only problem is I don't have that much money.

[Caller]

Okay, I think I do have that much. I do have enough money. I just want to see the best way to where to pull the money from.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, how much will grad school in Europe cost?

[Caller]

It's $30,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and what is she studying?

[Caller]

It'll be diplomacy from a very high caliber university.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, what does she want?

[Caller]

To work for the State Department.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay.

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And to be able to say you graduated with your masters from Cambridge or whatever is a big deal. Okay, I'm with you. I made that up. You didn't say that. But the. All right. And so you have the $30,000?

[Caller]

Yes. So I just graduated college last year. I have 130 and a brokerage account.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you write a check and pay for it and then what?

[Caller]

Yes, I could. So I also have a car that's worth 25,000. I own it and I think we might just sell it since we're both going to be gone. We don't need it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that'd be okay.

[Caller]

And then my. My Roth has been maxed for the last five years.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, we don't need to touch that. We have the money between the car and the brokerage account to pay for this easily. So she's going to be in grad school how long?

[Caller]

One year.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're going to be deployed how long?

[Caller]

12 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where can you say no?

[Caller]

I can't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

All right. And I'll be. My paycheck will be for the next 12 months. It'll be a hundred thousand dollars. Untaxed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Combat zone.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

I mean, it sounds pretty cut and dry.

[Dave Ramsey]

What? What's the question? You have the money, she wants to do it. You're gonna be separated anyway. This is her desire. It apparently has value. It adds value to do it there, according to her. And I don't doubt that, actually, the way you're describing it. Why would you. What's the question?

[Caller]

I guess, is it smart to pull money from a brokerage that has made almost 30% per year the last half decade for that?

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your other option?

[Caller]

I guess I have the car. To sell.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, sell it. You know, sell it anyway.

[Caller]

Or I could cash flow. I could just cash flow it.

[Dave Ramsey]

All of that's okay? Yeah, anything's okay.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

You're overthinking it.

[Dave Ramsey]

But before you borrow any money, we definitely cash out. Brokerage, car, any of that's fine.

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller]

Hey, I'm doing all right. How are you guys doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So I'll just get right to it. Somewhat recently my wife informed me that we would be getting a divorce.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ouch.

[Caller]

And it's. Yeah. Going on six years.

[Dave Ramsey]

What happened?

[Caller]

Kind of a layered question. It kind of came out of the blue for me. She has been kind of unhappy for some time and we've gone back and forth trying to figure it out. And I really thought that we did have it figured out. You know, I was checking in to make sure if we needed to go back to a counselor, this, that the other answer was always no. And then one day it's just, hey, I'm. I'm done.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Okay. That hurts. What? I'm sorry. That hurts. So how can we help today?

[Caller]

So my question is, when we first got married, we purchased a house with Cash using inheritance of hers. Now that things are kind of coming to a close, I'm trying to understand what the kind of moral settlement to ask for would be, considering I didn't contribute financially to the house itself. Now, every bill since, everything I've covered, she hasn't worked for some years now. She's been going to school, and I've supported her through that. But I just. Basically, because of the method that we used to buy the house, I'm just curious, what's the most honoring way to her, myself and God for me to proceed as we try to figure out a settlement?

[Dave Ramsey]

In a lot of states, they will return her inheritance to her and then split the overage with you, and that would be fairly normal. So what'd you pay for the house when you bought it?

[Caller]

500 originally.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So she'd get to 500 back, and then what will it sell for now?

[Caller]

Probably 740.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so there's 240,000. So 120,000 each, minus expenses would be. Right, that would be normal.

[Caller]

I. I did have a consult with an attorney who said that, you know, the remainder of her inheritance would be entirely blocked off. I would never dream of going for that anyhow. But it, but she said that the house having been both of our names the entire time, it would, that would be an even split.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like I said, some states, I don't know, Florida now, you know, but that's, you know, you know, you also didn't ask what the legal was. You asked what the moral thing was. If it's me, I would return to her what she brought in. And whatever you spent on her schooling or her sitting on the couch watching Oprah all these years or whatever, that's just part of being married. That didn't work. So Personally, I'd take 120 out of the house, let her take 120 out of the house, and her 500 goes back to her if it was me. And if she's got other inheritance money laying over over the side that lawyers already said that's going to her anyway. In return, though, like, if you got a big 401k,

[Caller]

I have about 95,000,

[Dave Ramsey]

I would ask that she leave that alone, of course, but she doesn't have to by law. But, but, but if the attorney says by law in Florida you're due half of this 500 portion on the house, then obviously you've got some negotiating points, right?

[Caller]

Sure. But, you know, I would never dream of going for half of the value of the house, you know, Kind of.

[Dave Ramsey]

I wouldn't. Unless she went for half of my 401k, of course. Okay, that's what I mean by negotiating.

[Caller]

I hear what you're saying.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I'll give you your 500 back and half of the value above that. You leave my 401k alone, I'll leave your balance of your inheritance alone and we go on our way. Does that work?

[Caller]

And, and you know that, that makes a lot of sense. And that was my initial gut reaction. Essentially the hold up was, you know, based on her decision, do I need to move towns? Is that fair? But I, but I hear what you're saying, Dave.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

I, let me throw some out. I, I'm trying to think if she called me and asked me the same question question, I think I would have a different response to her, which is, hey, you're, you're bailing on your husband. When y' all got together like Yalls money, bought this house, like yes, you brought this money into the, to the marriage. But you, you all bought a house, you put both your names on it. I, I don't know. I, I, I don't have the same hang up, I guess I'm not gonna

[Dave Ramsey]

hang up about it. You just asked me what, you know what you were. The way you posed the question I heard in the words, I'm trying to be gracious and I'm trying to be thoughtful. She brought this money in. What would be fair, what would be moral is what you asked, not what's legal, not what's hardcore negotiating and what can I get and what should I demand or anything like that. This doesn't sound like it's extremely contentious.

[Caller]

I'm just not that sort of person.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, are you saying it is contentious but you're just not being contentious?

[Caller]

There certainly have been some contentious conversations regarding the money itself. I just refuse to take part in that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, I mean we obviously based on the law, if we want to dance, you could go after that half and she could go half of that 500 and she could go after half of your 401k. And that's, you know, because it's a balance sheet issue at that point. Everything's on the table. And your attorney's telling you her other inheritance is off the table. Okay, that's fine. Then I'm going to go after half in order to get my 401k released. And if we got a dance, we'll dance. But if you want to just say what could we end up with that would feel fair? That feels fair. It's not killing me if you end up splitting on the house.

[Caller]

House.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not dying over it. But it, you know, it wasn't money you brought to the table, and I wouldn't take half of it as an offset for her having been at home or going to school while you were married. That's just part of, you were being married and that marriage didn't work. So I'm, that's just off. That's just, you know, you're not, we're not splitting the food cost. You provided all the food too. She wasn't working. You know, you provide the gasoline for all the cars for five years or six years, but she, because she wasn't working. That's not the, the, you know, I, I, I think that's just part of being married and that, that's water down the drain.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

And I, I always tell folks in the situation to also calculate, and this is not a quantitative number so much as calculate a soul tax. Like, if this woman's broken your heart over and over again and you thought things were great, she led you to believe they were great, and she sat down and said, I'm, I quit. I'm leaving. Part of me would say, I got a good job, I've got a good life. I want nothing more to do with you then, and leave me my retirement, I'm out of here. Have a good life. And part of me, there's a soul tax who, there's a cost to your spirit for fighting for this stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but if she wants the house, she's got to write me $120,000 check and leave my 401k alone. Or we're going to sell the house. And you get 500 plus 120 and I get 120 and you leave my 401k alone. There you go. Or I'll come after all of of it and make you leave my 401k alone.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, so that I can be nice to you. Yeah, let's just, you know, if you want to go, if we have to dance, I can punch to make you

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

dance, but I don't want to.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not what I'm trying to do here. Because I'm not contentious. Yeah, I like that. That's good. I think that's solid. But the thing that's hard to remember and Matthew, you're doing a pretty good job at it. For you folks out there, when there's a divorce, there's always high emotion, always drama, always all this stuff. But when it comes to the financial Part of the transaction of a divorce. A divorce turns your back, your life into a business transaction. You're just going to sit down and go, one for you, one for me, one for you, two for me, one for you, three for me, five for the kids, six for the marriage, whatever, alimony, whatever. And there's just, it's just, it just becomes a numbers transaction. And then you got all the emotions and all the broken hearts hearted and the rage.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

But just like business, the more you let emotions get in business decisions, the messier they get, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller]

Hi, Dave. This is pretty cool.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good to have you, sir. How can we help?

[Caller]

Thank. Thank you so much. I worked for a company, a semiconductor company outside of Boston and I bought their stock through employee stock purchase program and fast forward a little bit. I got laid off about two years ago, so I don't really have any emotional attachment to the company. However, since I worked for the company, the stock skyrocketed. That's just kind of the nature of the stock market today. My question is, I'm asking what you would do to sell this stock off to minimize my capital gains taxes, but also to diversify my portfolio a little bit because it's made this stock ownership has made up about 40% of my overall net worth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's dangerous. We call spreading the money around diversification. I'm sure you've heard of that. And money's like manure. It grows things. When it's spread around, left in one pile, it stinks. And so that's what we're trying to do here. We're trying to spread it around a little bit because you've got too much risk associated with that one company. It might go to the moon and it might go in the ditch. And as such, 40% of your net worth does. So that scares me if I'm you. So, yes, I would begin divesting. You said you've been gone for two years?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so all of it is going to be on long term capital gain.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so do you. What's the value of the portfolio of stock today? The whole piece.

[Caller]

As of today it's about 170,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. Good for you. I'm so happy for you. And do you know what your basis is in it? Have you called and asked for them to calculate that?

[Caller]

Yeah. So every six months they would give you a different basis that you'd buy the stock at. And it ranges anywhere between $79 from when I first bought it to around 264 when I got laid off. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

But the total basis in the total portfolio is a single number of all of those averages. Do you know what that number is?

[Caller]

I just did a rough calculation. If I were to estimate it's around

[Dave Ramsey]

$180 and there's how many shares?

[Caller]

260. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So 260 times 180 is what? That's your total. Okay. So that's the thing. So that's what I want to do is that. And then the difference in that and 170. 170,000 is your gain.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

It's about 47,000.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we'll call it 50,000 because we don't know. You actually can call the company that's handling the stock. So you've got that stock sitting somewhere, right? Yes, you can call them. They'll tell you what the basis is. Or send them an email. They'll send it to you. Okay. Because they've got it on file. So anything over that basis is going to be taxed at 15%. So if it's 50,000 is your basis, then you've got $120,000 gain. And so your taxes are going to be about 17,000 bucks.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's how you do it. 15% of your gain. Okay. And that's not a big deal. So given that that's the number, and it's probably going to be very close to that number.

[Caller]

Number.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Because I think you're probably pretty close on your basis. And so given that the whole, you know, we can take $170,000 out of a risky position by paying 17,000. I'm paying the 17,000 straight up. And I'm going to cash it all in. I'm going to put it in mutual funds or put it on my debts or wherever I am in the baby steps. And I'm going to get completely out of this stock.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's, you know, in the past three months, the stock has pretty much tripled.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you want to play single stocks, then, Then I'm not your guy.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

It's. It's that sitting. It's sitting at the blackjack table, dude. And you're like, yeah, but the last three hands I've won. You're right. Yeah.

[Caller]

No, I'm definitely the kind of person that puts my money into a mutual fund with which I have separate from this single stock portfolio.

[Dave Ramsey]

It may triple again after you sell it, but it might triple down if you don't sell it. So I don't know what it'll do. But a single stock is infinitely more risky than a mutual fund with 90 to 200 stocks in it because you spread your risk around and so on. So I, I didn't buy SpaceX for that reason. It might end up being a good investment. I haven't invested in Apple, which has been a wonderful stock, but I don't buy single stocks. I don't like the risk. And so I've got enough risk in my life without that. So I'm good. And if I make a little less than some of the guys that are players, well, so be it. Because I'm not a player. I'm a guy that builds wealth. There's a difference.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Dave's a player.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm trying to get rich, not impress somebody on the Internet. And so that's the thing. And so that's what I buy. I buy things in very predictable environments. Sickeningly boring. And so I don't play single stocks. You know, the worst one I've ever had was a lady came into the for coaching 30 years ago when we first started doing counseling and coaching. Coaching. And she had just retired 70 years old, and she worked for a huge company that we all know the name of, and she had 100% of her 401k and company stock, and it was 1.7 million. And at the high point, and she retired. And the stock went down hundreds of thousands of dollars in four months because that company got in the Tank it got in trouble. And I mean, and she was just. I'll never forget just sitting there with her, and she's 70 years old. She's just crying. I mean, she had lost $700,000 in three months.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Dude. I had friends and family growing up in Houston that worked for that little company called Enrollment on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

And they woke up with zero.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

And they were notorious for their incredibly generous stock buying program.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's just, it's. You know, there are obviously good companies and we want to be in those, but the way I'll be in them is with the whole batch of them. Not a singular thing. I just don't do karate. Kids stand on one leg and hope I can kick. You know, just not doing. Doing it. And so it's. It's. That's the. That's what you're doing. It's very dangerous.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

And I. I have had to learn this, like, just messing around. Like, if. If I go to Las Vegas and I have some silly fun at a table, I can't get mad. I can't. I. I just have to hold loosely. I'm playing with house money. And if I could, I could have made more. Great. But I'm leaving with what I got, and I'm happy with what I got got, and I'm going to walk away. So if you do sell this, brother, which I hope you do today, never look at the price again, because you're only going to make yourself nuts.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

You're going to make yourself feel superior if it goes down. You're going to make yourself feel bananas about what I could have had. The reality is, here's what you have. I'm going to be grateful for the gain that it made. It's awesome. I got extra money and I'm good to go.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it does remind us of a lesson we teach around here very often called cost analysis. And that is, if you had $170,000 in the middle of the table stacked in cash and Benjamin's, would you go buy this stock? Well, it went up three times in the last three months. If you had $170,000 in the middle of the table, would you go buy this stock? No. It's just too much risk. Then sell it.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Sell it? Yeah, sell it.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the thing. No, I wouldn't. Yes, I would. If. Yes, you would, then keep it. You know, that's what you're going to do. But, you know, I don't do that stuff. And that's why, by, you know, why I'M okay. I don't have. I'm not counting on crypto or draftkings to bring me through. You know, I'm going to be okay. I don't have to swing for the fence on every swing. I'm good with triples. I'm good with singles. I'm good with doubles.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

A team that hits a single every time somebody goes up to plate wins every World Series.

[Dave Ramsey]

Every single time. Every time.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

I remember a football coach said that If I get 4, 3, 3, 3 yards on every play, then we win every. We win every game.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep. 100%.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

It's boring.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

But we'll win every game.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ground and pound, baby.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairway Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Dr. John Deloney Ramsey, personality number one best selling author is my co host. Today. Derek's in Chicago. Hi, Derek, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, Dave. How you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can we help?

[Caller]

Yeah, so I'm an engineer and my wife is a veterinarian. We recently became debt free by paying off over $120,000 in student loans in the last 11 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go.

[Caller]

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. So we have aspirations of starting a veterinary clinic in the next one to three years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool.

[Caller]

And would love to just get your advice on what we should be doing now to prepare for starting this business.

[Dave Ramsey]

Excellent. I love it. Way to go. Well, I'm pretty sure you could do that for 120k and you did that in 11 months, right?

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. But let's break it down and think about how I would go about it from day one. The thing I have learned in business are the three rules. And the three rules are it's going to take twice as long as you think, cost twice as much as you think, and you're not the exception. And I run into that inside Ramsey all the time with something we're doing that's new and different that we've never done before. It's harder than we thought. It's going to cost more than we thought. And it turns out we're not smart enough to beat that. We got to go do it anyway. So what I would do in your situation is I would first admit that what you think this is going to look like when you actually open the clinic is wrong. But we're going to try anyway. But be ready for some ideas you have about this and your wife has about how this is going to feel, how it's going to look. Look the Way the wallpaper is going to be in the waiting room or whatever is going to be different than she has it in her emotions. So be prepared for your dream to be reformed and pruned as you go along.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

It's almost like young people leave their parents house and they think they should buy a house the exact same size as their parents left. You know what I mean?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

So it's like, hey, I gotta buy. You actually gotta buy a 900 square foot starter house and over the over time grow this amazing thing that you want.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what I do then with that in mind is I would lay down what I think my square footage is that I need what the location's going to look like and I would start talking about what the rent is going to look like to open the practice. Then I would start talking about the equipment. And I have a strong recommendation that you buy slightly used equipment from the last veterinarian that didn't do a good job and went broke because they didn't do what we're talking about doing. Okay. Because 100% of the equipment she's going to use and the equipment I'm using to speak into called a microphone right now is obsolete in 18 months after you buy it.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

An 18 month old technology item is a doorstop. There are no 30 year old X ray machines except in third world countries. Okay, you follow me? So the X ray machine, the MRI machine, the thing, she thinks it's going to save puppies lives or whatever it is, and some salesman with equipment is going to get you so far off kilter on what you've spent that you will never roi. So the rule we use on equipment purchases around here is, is minimal, functual, functional, minimal, functional. What's the least that will get the job done? And then we might go two notches above that. We don't want the best and brightest, we don't want the shiniest unless it's just $2 or something. But most of the best and brightest in Your world is $200,000 and you're trying to save the life of a cat. No.

[Caller]

Right. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. No. And so you just gotta be wise about your equipment purchases and then look at your staffing. And so what's it gonna take us and how long is it gonna take us to get some business built up, get some new clients and so forth. And those are your costs are the number of days that you burn money until you make money. That's cost one, your setup is cost two, your rent is cost three, your staff is cost Four. And you lay those things down, and then that's going to tell you how much you need to save. But I think you could probably get it. I'm just. Wild guess. I'm not a veterinarian. I love veterinarians, and we do a lot of work with them. A bunch of them are being coached in entree leadership. But my guess is if you went minimal functional, you do a whole lot for 150 grand to get this thing off the ground.

[Caller]

Yeah, that seems pretty consistent with what I've seen. Can I ask you a question about how to save for this? Because we kind of. We're kind of investing in our Roth IRAs and doing some investing through our work. But should we stop our investing in Roth IRAs and just kind of pile cash in, like a high yield savings?

[Dave Ramsey]

If it's the only way you can get there in three years. But I think you might be able to do both.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Based on the fact that you paid off 120 in 11 months while putting nothing in retirement. We need 150, but we got three years, not 11 months. So, you know, you probably can do both. If you want to tighten the timeline up and say, I want to be ready in one year and I want to save 150 grand and you want to. Hold on, push pause to get the business open and pay cash for it in one year, that's fine. I would not do that for three years.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would not do zero investing for three years while I save for this. But I would for one.

[Caller]

Yeah, okay. There's a high likelihood that with the start of this clinic, there would also be a move. And so another part of that equation is potentially, you know, saving up to buy a house wherever we move, things like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

You own a house now.

[Caller]

There's a lot of different. No, we rent currently.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, then decide which is which. We want to move and buy a house or we want to move and start a clinic. You might not be able to do both. You might have to choose for now, might buy the house out of the money you make on the clinic.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

But beware of creep of scope.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, scope creep.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Because, man, the next logical is, well, what if we just built our own and what if we just bought our own place and that might roi. We'll put it. We'll put a business on the back of it, and that will also help pay for it. And There's a new AI machine that says they can do laser MRIs through. You get what I'm saying? Like, it's so easy to sit down and all this thing becomes a million dollar project without even sneezing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's really just, just start it as raw and, and make it make money. And when it makes money, grow the business and grow the equipment list with the money you make, not with anything else. What she, what does she make now as a veterinarian?

[Caller]

She's, she's only one year in and so she makes 115.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Yeah. I mean, if she's got a two year old practice and is successful, she'll make 200.

[Caller]

Okay. Yeah. We have, we have aspirations to start this one practice and grow it into a healthy business and then start to duplicate that over a region that we want to live in. And so we have high hopes and dreams for this, but we want to

[Dave Ramsey]

make sure the first thing is get the home office straight. Yeah. Yeah. If I'm you, I'm probably going to go whole hog on this and say I'm going to, I'm going to take one more year off of investing. I'm going to save enough, I'm going to move and I'm going to rent and I'm going to open the clinic and get the clinic profitable and then I'm going to talk about buying and, and then I'm going to grow the clinic and grow the clinic and grow the clinic. And she'll be making a quarter million dollars pretty quick in that world and it'll be worth the investment. And it's a great field she's in. It's a great field.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Just start small.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Not only do we love animals around Ramsey, but, but you know, it's just, you guys just have the ability to make a lot of money. And veterinarians, all of them I work with, they're just really smart.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah, they're smart and they're great people.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Don't run into any of them. They're jerks.

[Caller]

Foreign. Hey, what's up, guys? It's Jade Warshaw. Listen, summer spending adds up so fast. Between vacations and road trips and camp fees and events and all the extra gas and grocery runs, money can get tight before you know it. To really get your money under control and keep it that way, you're going to need a plan. And that's what you'll get with the Every Dollar budget app. It helps you track your spending, free up cash to put toward debt and savings. And it's the simplest way to make a plan for your money before the month begins. So no more wondering where your money's going. You're telling it where to go Download everydollar in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you're thinking about conducting one of the largest purchases that people make, like a house, you should have a pro in your corner. Not someone who got their license three weeks ago that you met at church. No, you want a real estate agent that gets a lot of houses sold, period. And you want high octane, high protein. If you want a Ramsey trusted real estate agent agent that we have vetted for their professionalism, their effectiveness, the amount of volume they do and so on, they follow the Ramsey plan. You can connect with a Ramsey trusted agent who has your best interest at heart for [e-mail] agent or click the link in the description. If you're on YouTube or podcast. Dave is in Chicago. Hi Dave, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi Dave and John. I hope you all are well.

[Dave Ramsey]

We are. How can we help?

[Caller]

I have a question in reference to long term care. I'm currently 62 and I started working with a fiduciary earlier this year to assist me with some of my investing and increasing. My investing. But one of the products that she talked about or one of the investing opportunities, so to speak, that she talked about at my age was a long term care annuity that would guarantee a certain income during up to seven years of time if I was ever unable to work. My plan is to retire when I'm 70. So I've got eight years to retirement planned anyway.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the size of Mystic?

[Caller]

Well, right now I have approximately 375 in a traditional IRA outside of my 401k. I have about 80,000 in my 401k because I did an in service rollover into the IRA outside of my 401k. Then I'm back up to 80,000 in my 401. I've got 80,000 in a high yield savings account and I've got 70,000 in my checking account. Account.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

So somewhere around five or six hundred thousand total.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotcha. Okay, good for you.

[Caller]

So I'm hoping. And I just started investing in my 401k and stuff probably.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're 62 years ago.

[Caller]

Yes, I'm 62. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the average nursing home stays. And the average nursing home stay is two and a half years.

[Caller]

Oh, okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the average cost is 100,000 year.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're exposure to $300,000.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you married?

[Caller]

So that's not. No, I'm single, don't own a home. I stay with my parents to help take care of them because they're both 85.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And don't get around too well. So I stay with them. And my only other expense really is just my daily expenses. Plus I rent an office for work outside of my home and that cost me about 500amonth. So really I don't have many expenses.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you leave the 600 alone and it's invested at market rates and let's say it doesn't even do as good as market rates and it only makes 10%, it will double in seven years. At 69 you would have 1.2.

[Caller]

Okay, great.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's without adding anything to it.

[Caller]

16%.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so I'm going to self insure through my nursing home needs. If you want to buy a nursing home policy, you can. They generally only cover about two years. No, I would never combine them with an investment or with an annuity under any circumstances. 100% of the time that's a bad product. I don't like your investment advisor.

[Caller]

Right, okay, that's what I thought and I appreciate that. One thing about the investment I currently put, I currently put 16% plus my 11,200 that I can put in until I'm 63 for catch up contribution. Right. So I'm hoping that I'm going to actually be over that 1.2 hopefully.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you will be because you're adding to it. I'm talking about just doubling what you've got without adding anything to it. But yeah, you'll be way over that. You should be, you know, 1.6 or so.

[Caller]

Oh good, good. So I'm pretty well covered for my retirement.

[Dave Ramsey]

Assuming you're not putting this in something other than mutual funds. If you're putting in good growth stock mutual funds and you're averaging market rates of return is what I'm going with. Now I don't know what this advisor, the supposed fiduciary, this sells insurance crap that you've got here. I'm worried about that.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

But walk me through your disdain for annuities.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. It comes from two sources. Okay. Number one, there's two types of annuities. There's a fixed annuity, which is not what he's talking about. A fixed annuity is simply a savings account with a life insurance company that has really bad terms. Never under any circumstances do that.

[Caller]

Run.

[Dave Ramsey]

The variable annuity is fine. A variable annuity is a mutual fund inside of an annuity annuity. Okay. Okay. So it's going to grow without taxes on it until you cash it out. Just like a 401k traditional. Okay. It's a tax deferred growth and an annuity. That's what it gives you. It gives you tax deferred growth. They also have a couple other features. You can name a beneficiary. So it goes outside of probate. It's nice that way. And some of them will give guarantee. Most of them these days will give guarantee minimums on the rate of return and a guaranteed return of principal if the market goes down. Most of which if you leave it alone the seven years that they require, 99% of the times in the stock market's history, you would have gotten that anyway. So it's a false guarantee. But it's real. It's a real guarantee. It's not needed. If you just left it alone, you'd be fine. Same thing. So you're paying an annuity fee as a commission and you're paying the mutual fund fees, not just the mutual fund fees. So if you just bought mutual funds, you wouldn't have the fee. And so they're okay. The variable annuity is because you're in good mutual funds and you've got a couple other little features that are nice. They're not the end of the world. But unless you have your house paid off, everything paid off, and you're scared to death of risk, and this is all after retirement investing. And it's only an annuity. It's not tied to long term care, it's not tied to other crap, which his was, then it's okay.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

What's the business move for somebody to try to sell you an annuity attached

[Dave Ramsey]

to they make more money. The bundling, it just becomes a re. The math is horrendous.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Gotcha.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you bought the two things separately, you'd come out light years better. Gotcha. The insurance company. When insurance company. The only thing that insurance companies bundle together that end up being to your favor is homeowners and car.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Right?

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Home and auto.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. But if they bundle savings inside of an insurance policy like whole life and Universal, it 100% sucks. Anytime they start putting stuff together, it's for their benefit, not yours.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Gotcha.

[Dave Ramsey]

Run. Okay, Run away. Then the second thing is, the only way you can sell a mutual fund, if you're a life insurance agent, you're not licensed to sell securities is you can sell a variable annuity because it's got mutual funds inside of it, but your life insurance licensed.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Gotcha.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so. So most of the time when I hear someone pitching that my financial advisor is selling me, is wanting me to get a variable annuity. It's almost always a life insurance agent, not a financial advisor.

[Caller]

Gotcha.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they call themselves we're financial advisors, we're fiduciaries, we're financial advisors. No you're not. You're a freaking life insurance agent. Yeah, that's all you are. You just don't have a securities license. This is the only way you can sell a semi decent property. And so instead of going to get a securities license, being a real financial advisor, you're just over there with the whale, with Pacific Life, you know, you got a little splash going, right? And there we go. And it's just bull crap. It's just bull. You know, New York Life, Prudential, Pacific Life, these are all whole life life insurance companies that sell variable annuities and call themselves fiduciaries. They're not fiduciaries, they're life insurance agents. And they're old whole life agents is what they are. They used to sell cash value and some of them have gone to index to universal or indexed annuities or bull crap. Just go buy an index fund or sit down with a real advisor, like a smartvestor pro and they'll sit down and show you. And you don't have the fees. You only got half the fees that you would have had otherwise. You have fees, but not anywhere near as high. And they're not gonna sell you crap like trying to bundle your long term care insurance for nursing homes with your investments. Can you think of a possible reason that that's even logical? It's not. I mean this is like the Sesame Street. None of these things is like the other, you know. So that, that's my disdain for it is it comes from knowing how the business works inside the dugout, how baseball works inside the dugout. And it pisses me off. But the actual product itself, the variable annuities standalone, I am not against them in most circumstances. I'm against how they come up and who sells them most of the time.

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Hugh is with us the in in Wichita, Kansas. Hi, Hugh. How are you, Dave?

[Caller]

I'm just about as fine as frogs here. How are you doing today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Just the same, sir. How can we help?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. So I was listening to the show a while back and for Dr. DeLoney talking about some of the research he's been doing on married couples and everything and how they tend to do a little bit better, be a little bit more wealthy. And that got me thinking. I. I lost my wife in December.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh my gosh.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

And I'm sorry.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long were you married?

[Caller]

20 years. We were married. So what was her name, brother? I just was Summer.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

She's pretty awesome.

[Caller]

She was great. She was the best.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

So sorry, ma'.

[Dave Ramsey]

Am.

[Caller]

No, I appreciate it, but you know, I just, I'm not looking to, to go out and do anything, but I was just kind of curious, you know. What? For somebody in my situation, what's that kind of mean? I mean, am I kind of just stuck where I'm at or what? So anyway, I just was kind of curious.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did you lose the marriage advantage when you lost her? Is that what you're asking?

[Caller]

Yeah, I guess that's. That's the question.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 46.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how are you doing financially and in your career and health wise, Wash?

[Caller]

My health is fine. Financially, we're. Well, I'm finishing up baby step two, getting ready to start on, on three, and career wise, I'm. I'm doing pretty good. Okay. So. All right.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

I, I can tell you, brother, I. If I was to look back and have lost my wife of 24 years in December, I, I don't know that I would still know what day it is.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

You know what I mean?

[Caller]

It definitely, it definitely sucks. You know, we've got four kids

and

honestly, if it wasn't for them, I don't know where I'd be at. I have one that's 19, one that's 17, one that's 15, and then one that's 12. And our 12 year old is special needs.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah. So I, this is going to sound strange, but my guess is in 18 months and 24 months is when you'll start to not see the pain won't just go away or anything like that, no matter what nonsense people tell you. But you're still in the thick of the black fog of grief right now and you're, you're such a good man and you got four kids. Like you don't have an option other than to get up and to plow through the next day. What I want to challenge you on is spending as little time right now on big existential what does it all mean Questions. Because that's like asking. That's like being in the dark, lost in a forest and thinking about what's the meaning of life. Like, what we need to do is get back to the road. You get what I'm saying?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

And so, so the marriage advantage right now is you have four amazing kids that have a picture of this amazing woman named Summer. And y' all built something together. Y' all have got this legacy that's going to outlast both of you. And anything beyond honoring her and getting up the next day and doing the next right thing for us a long time, that's where, that's where you need to spend your energy. Does that make sense?

[Caller]

So

[Dave Ramsey]

the marriage advantage is a series of averages over a large set of

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

data over a long period of time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Over a long period of time. And so if you're not married today because you lost your wife six months ago, you are not at a distinct disadvantage. Okay? But the marriage advantage points out that over the scope of life, those that are married, married over a 40 year, 50 year period of time, live longer, report better life satisfaction and happiness. They report higher levels of wealth, way higher levels of wealth over a long period of time. That's the marriage advantage. There's a whole set of data and a whole set of research, a bunch of research projects that back all of that up. But also there's a piece of data that says if you are 19 years old and your parents got divorced and you marry someone whose parents got divorced, you are much higher likelihood statistically to get divorced than two 19 year olds whose parents stayed together if you get married. Right. But that doesn't mean that just because both of your parents got divorced that 100% of the time you're going to be the same statistic.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

It's not deterministic, it's correlative, it's not causal.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right, exactly. It doesn't cause that to happen. And so, you know, so what behaviors are, you know, what do you have to solve for in that? Well, you solve for the things that Summer brought to the table and you keep living your life that way and then you've still got that portion of the marriage advantage. Plus you don't really have a choice. You're here. And so you've got to, you know, you're solving for. I'm not going to be the average. I'm going to be the one that beats the average and causes the average to come them up. And that's what those two 19 year olds with divorced parents prove.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

We, we, we're going to have to do different things.

[Dave Ramsey]

The statistics are if you've been married, if you've known each other for three weeks and you get married, you know, 90% of those marriages don't last. Okay. But you do meet people that were married that knew each other three weeks and were married for 40 years and

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

they got up every day and decided yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they just, but so they beat the odds, so to speak.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

The, the, the, the main, if you distill all the way down the marriage advantage, two people, people doing a thing over time together, us two ride or die gives you margin. It gives you the ability that when one of you can only carry 20%, the other person's carrying 80. It is two people pulling in the same direction. And that's what you did for 20 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

And, and that's what you've, that's what the hole in your life is.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

That's exactly right.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what you miss.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

But that doesn't mean you're quote deterministically doomed, right? At all. Not even close. That's the point of this.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

So dude, we're sorry for your loss, brother.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, very sorry. Sorry. Very sorry. You're, you're, you're going to make it. And you, you know, you're, you're not going to miss out on the marriage advantage. You've already had the advantage.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

But again, spend the, the least amount of time thinking about those big pictures. Honor your wife, write her a letter every day. Get up and do the next right thing for your kids. You're a good, good man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Anna's in Los Angeles. Hi Anna, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, I'm great.

Good day.

Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, what's up?

[Caller]

Yes, just a little background. I'm from Silicon Valley and work in a healthcare industry. I'm 54 years old, plan to retire in two years, married, I have two kids that just graduated from college. And my question is, is it a smart idea to buy short term rentals for tax purposes? Just because this year our combined salaries will be around 750k and we the

[Dave Ramsey]

only, the only short term rentals that create a tax advantage are those that lose money.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

So your depreciation on the, on the property, your depreciation schedule is larger than your income, which it would not be on a short term rental.

[Caller]

So the bonus depreciation and the cost segregation won't Help at all.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, if you actually lose money, then you. You save money. But if you want to do that, just give it to a charity. It's the same write off.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't lose money to save on taxes. If somebody's telling you to do that, get away from them. They're dumb. No. And short term rentals are a nightmare, Anna. I mean, you're talking about buying Airbnbs to save on taxes while you're making all this money because you're smart people. And now you just turned yourself into a hotel. Man made. Because every time somebody screws up the sheets over there at your Airbnb, you're over there changing the sheets.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah. Find something that you and your spouse really believe in and donate to that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, much easier. Don't go losing money and turn yourself into a hotel maid when you're making a million dollars a year just to call. Just to say, you know, I'm in the short term rental business. Oh, God, gross. Yeah, there's talk about high maintenance, pain in the butt to operate Airbnb. I mean, it's like running a Motel 6. Can you imagine? Leave the light on.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Lights off.

[Dave Ramsey]

Killing me. Tom.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Lights off.

[Dave Ramsey]

Tom Bodette. You remember him?

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Leave the light on. We'll leave the light on for you.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah, that's because we don't know how to turn it off.

[Dave Ramsey]

We have a lock box on the front door. We'll leave the light on for you,

[Caller]

Sam.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 25:21. If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat. If he is thirsty, give him water to drink. Ben Franklin said, love your enemies, for they tell us your fault, for they tell you your faults. I haven't heard that one. That's good. Maria's in Atlanta. Hi, Maria. How are you?

[Caller]

Hi, Dave, this is Maria. How are you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Okay, so I read your book, and I'm planning to save $1000 in 401k and I've already included it in my budget. And I also need to take about 262 taken out of my paycheck every month for medical and all that stuff because I'm a civil engineer and I recently graduated with my master's in engineering. And I'm also planning to live rice and beans. And then I have an electric car. So, you know, my charging is going to be budgeted to like $40 per month. If I can't make that, then I'm going to have to take the bus.

[Dave Ramsey]

How can we help you?

[Caller]

Honestly? Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

What's going on?

[Caller]

Okay. My situation is that I'm a civil engineer and I recently graduated with my master's degree, but I've been fired at nine different civil engineering jobs since I graduated with my BS and back in 2017.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Why do you keep getting laid off? What's happening?

[Caller]

I have this. I was immature. You know, over time, I realized that it's like corporate. So corporate is very strict, stringent, like kind of like military style, because I work in like, different projects, government projects and all that stuff. And they want you to stay calm under pressure. And I wasn't able to do that at my. At the nine different jobs. So that's why I got laid off or like, go fired.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

So have you done the work on emotional regulation? Because it sounds. I mean, it sounds like, like if. If you went and got a. A degree as a nurse and every time you saw blood or had to put a needle on somebody's arm, you passed out. That's. That's a critical part of that job. Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

So critical part of your job is staying calm and regulated.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Right? So if you. It may be that you've reached a point where you say, I don't. I. I either a can't make the leap to do this thing, or I don't have it in me to go put in the work, to go learn these skills of emotional regulation so that I can do this job.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have you sought some professional help, like a therapist to help you?

[Caller]

Yes, I've gotten therapy help. And I've also joined the union at my last job and realize that, you know, it's the corporate system, and within that corporate system, you have to basically make it through in order to. To make it through the corporate world.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah, but, but corporate is just like this amorphous word. Take. Just don't use that word anymore. Think of it this way. If I agree to do a Job for a company. Company. And I shake hands with them and they say, we'll give you this amount of money for this job. A. They have to believe I can do the job both in temperament and in skill and in social ability. Like I'm a person that other people can work with, and then I got to show up every day to do that job. That's not about corporate. It's not about every job on planet Earth. Whether you're a lawn person or you're working for a company with 10,000 employees is going to say, here's the job and there's a social component. Here's how we do this job here. And then I get to choose as the employee whether I do that or I've got to go get some additional training so that I can meet these needs. You get what I'm saying? It's not. This is this thing called corporate out there. It's. It's. When I sign up to do any job anywhere, at any time, I'm signing up for a particular culture, a particular vision, a particular set of values, and a particular job skill.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. How long did you see a therapist?

[Caller]

I started seeing a therapist back in 2020. 2023, right after Covid, and because I was employed, unemployed for about a year and a half during COVID So it's. It's not a problem for me to get another job. The issue is me keeping a job.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Because we're talking about. Yeah. How long did you meet with the therapist? From 23 to what, now to now? And how often do you meet with them?

[Caller]

I meet with him weekly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Is he. Is he explaining for you how to maintain your composure and your calm in the middle of working on an engineering project with other people?

[Caller]

I didn't realize that up until now because I've been seeing. I also saw, you know, different therapists because I couldn't afford it, so I kept switching therapists.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

So I want you to sit down with your therapist after you've been seeing the same person for a couple years. I want you to say these words. I would like to run some scenarios, do some role playing in here so that I can practice, and a good therapist will walk alongside you, set you up in situations, and then we'll practice whatever we got to practice for these social interactions so that you can improve a skill set. Just going in therapy and talking about over and over and over again isn't going to help you at this point. We need some real skills that we can practice in the real world. And so continue putting that Work in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. There's an old book that came out years ago called eq and the author makes the point in the book book that that's called emotional quotient, that the ability to manage your emotions and manage and interact with relationships positively is a higher indicator of success than IQ, than intelligence. So the ability to play well with others is a bigger deal. But your ability to do that he measured on eq. And so if your EQ is low, low and your IQ is high, you're very smart, but you're horrible with relationships and regulating, managing to keep your emotions under control and pressure, then you're going to struggle in any career.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's not a career that keeps you from doing that.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Even being 17 years old, working the lunch rush at Burger King, it got overwhelming. Right. And we. Everybody has to keep their cool. So any job anywhere is going to have those inflection stress points.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so working on your EQ makes you maintain your employment, which gives you the income then to start talking about, you know, getting the electric car charged, getting your budget going, getting your 401k going, getting your emergency fund in place and all of those things. But you know, getting and keeping a job is dependent upon you managing your behavior differently than you have in the last nine jobs.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Right. And it sounds like you're putting the work in. But let's get real tactical now and start practicing. Ask your social exchanges.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey Doc, I want you to, I want to, I want to play pretend how this is going to feel.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then see if he can get your, get you to lose your cool.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Yeah. And then walk with you through cool

[Dave Ramsey]

in the therapist office. Then you can learn how to not lose your cool.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And, and get, and get back in control. That's a good suggestion. Very good. Yeah. There is a. And that's why, you know, at the core of that is why getting a degree, getting a four year degree as a promise of success is a lie.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because if your EQ sucks and you got a 4 year degree and you graduated. Thank you. Laude or magna cum laude? Either one. You're still gonna suck at your job.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not gonna be able to pull it off because you always have to do this with people.

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

A lesson somebody taught me, of all places, a casting agent back when I was 21 years years old in Los Angeles told me this wisdom and it stuck with me. When I was 21 years old, they said, there's about 10 people in this town. This is back when Hollywood was was buzzing. And you know, in the late 90s, there's about 10 people in this town that can run roughshod over everybody and kind of get away with it because they're super mega ultra stars, he said. But most casting decisions are made on this question. Do I want to spend the next three months with that person?

[Caller]

Person?

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Do I want to spend the next two months with that person? All day having dinner with them, waking up in the morning in the makeup trailer. And most decisions are made because there's a lot of talented people. Most decisions are made. Is this a good person I want to be around? And that stuck with me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like, do you play well with other

[Dr. John Deloney Ramsey]

Be a good person to hang around? Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.