Financial Wisdom Matters More Than Financial Timing

Summary

The Ramsey Show: Financial Wisdom Matters More Than Financial Timing

Date: July 23, 2026
Hosts: George Kamel & Dr. John Delony
Theme: You can build wealth and take control—even after money mistakes. Financial wisdom and intentional action trump luck and timing. Practical caller questions on emergency funds, debt, family dynamics, career moves, and investments anchor the episode.

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the principle that becoming financially wise and intentional is more important than waiting for the "right time" or getting lucky. Hosts George Kamel and Dr. John Delony field live questions from callers at various life stages, offering practical advice for building stability, navigating emergencies, making big purchases, handling relational and career stress, and investing for the future.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Emergency Funds—What Should Be Included?

[00:41–08:15]

• Caller: Hannah from Orlando asks about sizing her emergency fund, especially including expensive health insurance.
• Advice:
  • Lean toward six months’ expenses, especially with single or variable income or health concerns.
  • Include health insurance and all true “musts”—strip out luxuries.
  • Build separate “sinking funds” for predictable expenses (car repairs, etc.) so emergencies are urgent, necessary, and unexpected only.
  • Keep main emergency fund in a high-yield savings account; buffer checking account with $500–$1,000.
• Quote:
  • "Baby step three is such a slog. It's one of the most boring, unfulfilling baby steps, but it's one of the most important too" – George Kamel [08:15]

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2. Living Without Credit Cards in a Debit-Card World

[10:29–15:47]

• Caller: Ann from Philadelphia is anxious about large debit card purchases and fraud.
• Advice:
  • Use privacy.com for virtual cards and set transaction limits for online merchants.
  • Apple Pay is another encrypted option.
  • Debit cards have the same fraud protections as credit cards (via federal law and card networks).
  • Include discipline in transferring funds from savings to checking for big purchases.
• Quote:
  • "Debit cards have the same fraud protection as credit cards... There's just a thing in my head. It feels like the checking account is an arm's length from under my mattress." – Dr. John Delony [15:01]

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3. How to Escape an Upside-Down Car Loan

[16:26–19:46]

• Caller: Micah from Mississippi bought a truck, is upside down (owes more than it’s worth).
• Advice:
  • Get offers from CarMax and Carvana to establish a floor value.
  • List it realistically (Kelley Blue Book value).
  • Cover deficiency out of pocket or with a small personal loan (better than ongoing debt).
  • Consider sharing or borrowing a car, biking, or using public transit to avoid pressure buying.
• Memorable Moment:
  • Dr. John Delony jokes about using “a can of gasoline and a match” to “get rid of the truck”—then emphatically says, “Don’t do any of that!” [17:26]

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4. When a Marriage Becomes an Economic and Emotional Question

[22:17–31:14]

• Caller: Gail from San Antonio wonders if it’s ill-advised or morally wrong to divorce a nonworking husband after 27 years.
• Discussion:
  • The tension is partly financial, partly relational; the house is tied up in a trust.
  • Dr. Delony reframes fidelity, noting that “cheating” is not just infidelity, but also not pulling your weight in life.
  • Ultimately, the hosts refuse to outsource the moral decision but encourage clarity, dignity, and directness.
• Quote:
  • "You have to look in the mirror and say, I am making this decision... I'm not going to give you that." – Dr. John Delony [28:59]

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5. Are You Willing to Sacrifice for Freedom? The Boat and Harley Dilemma

[33:03–42:33]

• Caller: Joanna from Edmonton, Canada, with $193K in consumer debt but high income and toys (boat, Harleys, two homes).
• Advice:
  • Sell the boat and Harleys for immediate, massive progress (over $160K in cash)—debt free by Christmas vs. 4 years slogging.
  • Reframe with partner: “Do we want to be free people or boat people?”
  • Use temporary measures (renting boats, reducing spend) if needed.
• Quote:
  • "The two best days of owning a boat are the day you buy it and the day you sell." – George Kamel [41:41]

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6. Family, Grown-up Children, and Parental Debt

[44:24–52:59]

• Caller: Austin from Orlando, military, asks if he’s hard-hearted for not wanting his debt-accepting mother to live with him.
• Advice:
  • Assess total cost—not just money, but home “vibes.”
  • Don’t take on a parent’s financial burdens by force.
  • Have a direct conversation; offer financial wisdom if she’s receptive.
  • Pre-plan boundaries for cohabitation and possible separation.
• Quote:
  • "If she doesn't care, you can't impose that value system on her." – Dr. John Delony [48:35]

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7. Should I Switch Careers in the Trades?

[54:29–64:13]

• Caller: Isaac from Arkansas, auto tech earning $100K, wants to be an electrician (pay cut for years, long-term upside).
• Advice:
  • Be honest: Leaving hard physical work in automotive for electrical? The grass isn’t softer; trades are all difficult.
  • Don’t chase a dream with no plan; household math must come first.
  • Get out of debt, save a big emergency fund, then switch careers.
• Quote:
  • "You could both go get a job at Starbucks and y'all be making more money per year." – Dr. John Delony [98:16]

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8. Gambling Apps & “Financial Nihilism”

[65:53–71:46]

• Caller: Todd from Nevada asks for the Ramsey view on betting sites for non-sports events.
• Advice:
  • Ramsey stance: Don’t gamble; if you do, only with “fun money” after all financial priorities are met.
  • Warning: These apps are engineered for addiction and losses; the games are rigged.
  • Cultural critique: Financial nihilism leads people to “YOLO” risky bets, not true investing.
• Quote:
  • "It's a financial cancer on society... a byproduct of 'financial nihilism.'" – George Kamel [68:03]
  • "If feeling alive to you is happening in the darkness of your own living room, in the glow of a screen, that's a huge signal you've created a life with no life to it." – Dr. John Delony [71:29]

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9. Marriage and Homebuying—Pause or Purchase?

[72:17–74:57]

• Caller: Marianne, Michigan, engaged, weighing immediate homebuying versus renting.
• Advice:
  • Rent at first; don’t stack life changes.
  • Get on the same financial page before merging money or making big purchases.
• Quote:
  • "You win, Marianne. Y’all should rent for a while." – Dr. John Delony [74:57]

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10. When to Pay Off Debt If a Job Loss Looms?

[77:16–84:43]

• Caller: Ben from Boston, high earner, predicts a pay cut/layoff; deciding whether to use savings to pay off all debt.
• Advice:
  • Pay off all debts now while you have the cash; keep a healthy cash cushion.
  • Use freed-up cash flow from no debt payments to quickly rebuild savings during uncertain months.
  • Prepare for transition by networking and job searching early.
• Quote:
  • "You're trading an unknown future... I'm going to have no payments. So if my house gets hit, I'm not going to owe anybody anything." – Dr. John Delony [81:21]

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11. Speculative Investments: The $600K Pokémon Card Teen

[86:58–95:04]

• Caller: Cheyenne, 18, built a $600,000 Pokémon card collection/business.
• Advice:
  • Collectibles are not investments; market is speculative and illiquid.
  • If anxious, offload the portfolio and invest in index funds for stable, long-term growth.
  • If cards are your passion, keep it as a business/hobby—but not your net worth.
• Quote:
  • "Collectibles...it can be fun, but it is not a substitute for real investments." – George Kamel [95:04]

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12. Housing Crisis on the Poverty Line

[96:21–105:45]

• Caller: Katie, Idaho Falls, rents rising above income, considers buying a mobile home.
• Advice:
  • The problem is not rent, it’s too-low income; mobile homes depreciate and trap you in debt.
  • Pause home buying; focus on finding higher paying work, even if in different fields or locations.
• Quote:
  • "You could both go get a job at Starbucks and y'all would be making more money per year... you have a math problem." – Dr. John Delony [98:16]

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13. Navigating Dementia and Protecting Wealth

[107:43–116:14]

• Caller: Robin, Fort Worth, husband diagnosed with early-onset dementia; how to protect savings for his care.
• Advice:
  • Keep investing a reasonable percent for long-term needs; pile up extra cash in high-yield accounts for care costs.
  • Get with a trusted financial advisor and local dementia caregiver support group.
  • Make sure all legal documents (power of attorney, beneficiary forms) are in place.
• Quote:
  • "You can only provide care for him with what you have... Be in service to yourself first so you can be of service to him." – Dr. John Delony [114:24]

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14. Big Home Repair—with No Cash

[118:28–127:27]

• Caller: Manny, Chicago, new homeowner with a cracked sewage line, minimal savings, small debt, and a possible $10K+ repair.
• Advice:
  • Don’t raid retirement accounts.
  • Exhaust all options: multiple quotes, involve city (if public pipes); review homeowners insurance/warranty closely; accept family help if needed.
  • Focus solely on the current emergency without panicking about the big picture.
• Quote:
  • "It's a part-time job... You may save yourself ten grand (by doing due diligence)." – Dr. John Delony [125:22]

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Notable Quotes & Moments by Timestamp

• "Baby step three is such a slog... It's one of the most important too." – George Kamel [08:15]
• “I can't be the one that gives you permission to make this life-altering decision... You have to own that decision.” – Dr. John Delony [28:59]
• “We're not saying never own a boat again.” – George Kamel [36:53]
• “You can't care more than she does about her debt.” – George Kamel [48:40]
• “If she doesn't care, you can't impose that value system on her.” – Dr. John Delony [48:35]
• “Collectibles...it can be fun, but it is not a substitute for real investments.” – George Kamel [95:04]
• “If feeling alive to you is happening in the darkness... in the glow of a screen, that's a huge signal you've created a life with no life to it.” – Dr. John Delony [71:29]
• “You could both go get a job at Starbucks and you'd be making more money per year... you have a math problem.” – Dr. John Delony [98:16]
• “You can only provide care for him with what you have... Be in service to yourself first so you can be of service to him.” – Dr. John Delony [114:24]

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Takeaways

• Wisdom > Timing: Don’t wait for “the right moment”—act with wisdom and hard choices now to create security and options later.
• Clarity and Honesty: Apply brutal honesty to relationships, budgets, career changes, and family dynamics.
• Sacrifice for Freedom: Be willing to let go of luxuries for future stability.
• Practicality Over Fantasy: Focus on math and character; wishful thinking and gambling lead to misery.
• Seek Support & Plan: In crisis—medical or financial—use all legal, relational, and financial resources; prepare for what’s next.

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Structure of the Episode

• Personalized caller questions blend financial realities with life and relationship challenges.
• George and John’s tone: Friendly, direct, sometimes irreverent, always practical and empathetic.
• Recurring themes: Urgency of action, value of sacrifice, separating wants from needs, using adversity as a wake-up call.

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For New Listeners:

This episode offers quintessential Ramsey guidance: tough love, actionable advice, and deep encouragement to build real financial wisdom—regardless of past mistakes. Whether facing an emergency, buying a home, making a career move, struggling with relational finances, or wrestling with “fun” money, the lesson is the same: intentional financial wisdom always trumps waiting for perfect timing.

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(All timestamps in MM:SS; content sections and commercials have been omitted.)

Transcript

[Announcer]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[George Camel]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel here with Dr. John Deloney. We're taking your calls at 888-8255. You call us up, we'll try to help you take the right next step for your money and your life. Hannah kicks us off in Orlando, Florida. What's going on, Hannah?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Hi.

[Caller (various female callers)]

So we are, me and my husband, we are currently on baby step number two. We're completely debt free aside from our mortgage. So we are trying to get our three to six months savings built up so that way we can move on to the other baby steps. My question is, when we are setting up our emergency savings or 3 to what should we include in that? So I am a stay at home mom, but I also own my own business so I work part time and then I have my health insurance that we pay for privately. Should I include the health insurance expense as part of that since it is something that it is really expensive for both me and my daughter. So we're just trying to figure out what we should include in our emergency savings plan itself.

[George Camel]

Yeah. And it sounds like you guys are wanting to lean towards six months versus the three. That's sort of the spectrum that we have. And if you do have, you know, if there's single income or variable income or there's health issues in the family, then you want to lean towards six. You'd rather be safe than sorry, not have enough to cover the gap. So six months is the goal. How much money is that

[Caller (various female callers)]

between like mortgage, like our hoa, car insurance, health insurance and groceries? It probably would be, I would estimate probably about 15 to 17,000 for six months for us.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller (various female callers)]

And that's not including health insurance. Our health insurance for me, my daughter is about 600amonth. So it's pretty expensive unfortunately.

[George Camel]

Okay, so let's add that in. So 600amonth, six months worth. Let's add another four grand for that. So now we're at basically 20 grand would get you guys by for six months to cover all of your. Yeah, your basic needs. We can strip out the luxuries. We don't need every single thing in there. If you did have a legit storm or a job loss, we're not going to live how we were living before.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Okay, so 20k is the goal. You guys have the Thousand dollar starter emergency fund right now. And now you're working towards the 20?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Yes, we currently have almost 12 grand in savings and that's including like pretty much everything liquidated that we have in terms of savings, including the thousand dollar baby starter.

[George Camel]

Wow, so you guys are only 8,000 away.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Yeah, we're pretty close. We've been pretty fortunate with just childcare and everything like that. We haven't had to pay for much childcare aside from like family, friends just paying for gas and stuff like that. So we've been pretty blessed actually.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, and also y' all have made some choices. So you, you have been blessed, you are privileged, you are fortunate. All those things are true. And you're choosing to do things a little bit differently, right?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so own. Yes, we're fortunate and we've been lucky in some areas and also we're working really hard. I like to George, tell me if this is bananas. I emergency fund for me philosophically is if I walked in here and Dave Ramsey said you're fired, get out, that me and my wife would be able to eat and take care of our bills for the next six months. But practically speaking, it was not this past week, it was the week before. In one day I got up early before work. I took one of my family's vehicles and I have a 16 year old, so there's three drivers. I took one vehicle to one automotive shop. I took another vehicle to another automotive shop. I got dropped off at work. While I was at work I got a call from the air conditioner guy that my entire my central unit had to be replaced, like had be taken off. And my wife called and said the well's broken like out in the country, like so we have no water in the house. All that was on one day and it was annoying and it put me in a bad mood and I was full drama queen. Ask anybody who was working with me. But also that's.

[George Camel]

If you had longer hair, you could have flipped it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, I would have been flipping it. Yes. But that is what the emergency fund is for. So philosophically it's I can sleep at night knowing that I have a six month or longer Runway to if the worst of the worst happens. And also practically speaking, the air conditioner goes out, the cars need to get fixed, the water doesn't isn't coming on all in the same day. Our pets heads are falling off. All of it happens in one day. I have that in an account somewhere. I don't have to go borrow money for it. I can just pull from an account, I become my own bank. Right. So that's how it works for me in my house. So I would definitely keep your health insurance in there. Because if your husband was to lose his job, that you don't want to be uninsured with two small kids for six months, right?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Two small kids do what two small kids do, and they fall down and they hit things and they drop things and whatever. Right. So you build that in. But also, if the car blows up in two months, you're going to repair that from the. The $20,000 emergency fund you've saved.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Okay, perfect.

[George Camel]

So how much longer till you guys are there? Is this a couple of months?

[Caller (various female callers)]

We're really unsure. He actually just got a pretty impressive increase with his hourly, so they gave him a $5 an hour increase. And then I am going to be starting adding on another day with my job, probably in September or October. And my income is really var. So it's kind of hard to tell. I'm hoping that we can have that done within, like, by November. That's kind of what I'm hoping. But I'm also trying not to put pressure on us just because we do have a little one. And they take up a lot of time and a lot of resources most of the time.

[Announcer]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Well, I was going to say the emergency fund is for three things. Things that are urgent, necessary, and unexpected. So if there's things in your life where, you know we're gonna have to do maintenance and repair on, let's just set up a sinking fund for those things so they don't feel like an emergency when they pop up. So separate those two things in your mind in your budget. Let's say you have, you know, maybe 200 bucks for car maintenance and repair. Well, now, 12 months from now, you get 2,400 ready to cover those things versus you having to pull from the emergency fund.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Yep.

[George Camel]

And last thing is, keep it in a high yield savings account. Do you guys have one of those already?

[Caller (various female callers)]

We do not. Would you recommend that we move all of our emergency savings into that and just not have anything or keep a very minimal amount in our bank account? Savings account itself?

[George Camel]

Yes, I would keep a buffer in your checking account. For some people, that's 500 bucks. For some people, it's 1,000. So you guys decide how much buffer you want to keep in checking so you're not riding it to zero. But then other than that, keep the whole emergency fund in a high yield savings account. And the one that we recommend is fair ones Credit union. You guys can open that. It actually has a checking account with it. A no fee checking, high yield savings. It's over 3% right now. And a Ramsey themed debit card. So you can get [e-mail] Ramsey and that will get you guys set up. Once you have that, Hannah, it is a game changer. Like, you just sleep better at night knowing that whatever comes your way in life and something will come your way, you're just going to kind of swat it like a bug. It's the best feeling in the world.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Feeling to know.

[George Camel]

Yes. And you guys are so close. I mean, Even right now, 12K would cover most of life's emergencies. That's a new H vac unit. That's a car replacement if you needed it to be. So you're so close. Keep going. Baby Step three is such a slog. It's one of the most boring, unfulfilling baby steps. But it's one of the most important too, so keep it a priority. You guys are doing great.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Foreign.

[Dr. John Deloney]

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[George Camel]

Ann is up next in Philadelphia. Ann, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Hi. Thank you for having me.

[George Camel]

Absolutely.

[Caller (various female callers)]

So my question is, how can I make large purchases like buying plane Tickets or paying for car services without a credit card.

[George Camel]

What a baller. Ann, how much are we talking? Well, what's like the most you could spend and why is it an issue right now for you?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Yeah, so I have most in my. The way that I'm living. Most of my income goes into my savings. And so I keep a very small amount in my checking account. And I'm worried about purchasing things online with my debit card just in case it could get stolen. And I don't have a credit card. So I currently will pay my parents back when they.

[George Camel]

You'll have them cover it. And so this is more like fear of fraud. Yeah, it's not that the transaction can't go through. You're just saying, hey, it's a large purchase. If this. Somehow this money got moved to the wrong place, I'm in a lurch.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'll tell you what I use. I. And they're not a sponsor of the show. It's just a. They may sponsor your show. Now. For years I've used privacy.com and here's, here's what they do. And like I say, they're not a sponsor. They're what I use personally. I put my debit card into their system and then it generates a card number for all of my online purchases. So I Bet I have 150 cards for this weird guitar shop and this weird archery shop. And there's one for Southwest and there's one fortnight.

[George Camel]

So imagine a custom debit card for every single merchant you shop with.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you could tell them the exact amount that they can draw and that's it. And you can do a one time purchase. You can do a recurring purchase. So whenever I'm about to buy plane tickets online, Southwest never has my information. They have this number generated from privacy.com and it gives me that three little digit code and the date. I feel like I'm doing a commercial for them.

[George Camel]

But I have no. It's. They really are great because I use them for years and finally they came onto my show. So I think now privacy.com, george, you get five bucks just for signing up.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Which is pretty cool that I am a. I'm terrified of ID theft. I also have ID theft insurance through Xander, but I'm scared of that stuff too. I don't like giving my debit card out. And so that's it. That's the exact site I use. And it's free. Privacy.com. it's free.

[George Camel]

And anytime that there's like an Apple Pay option on a website I use that because that again is encrypted. It's not actually sending over my debit card information. So that is, I mean, John and I are both guys who don't have a credit card and we make a lot of large purchases online and I travel a lot. I do it without flinching.

[Announcer]

Yeah.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Does that solve the conundrum?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Yeah, I'm definitely going to look into that. Could you clarify how, how exactly I put my, like how, how do I transfer the money to this privacy.com so

[George Camel]

it doesn't actually transfer. All it's doing is it's pulling from your debit card. They're just sort of acting as a middleman with a different virtual card number so that you're protected against those breaches.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Amazon, Netflix, if, if Netflix gets hacked, they're not going to have my information. They're this one number.

[George Camel]

So let's say I sign up for a free trial and I use one of these virtual cards and I say, hey, don't let any amount over a dollar come through. Well, when that trial tries to charge me, it just won't go through. It can't charge my bank account, it'll decline it. So that's the kind of stuff that you can set up with each individual card and like John said, you can have it be a one time thing and then the card's never used again. So that's helped me a whole lot with large purchases on top of Apple Pay. And you know, there's, there's a bunch of other things. Ann and I talk about it in my book Breaking Free from Broke. I'll send you a copy of that too. In the credit cards chapter, I sort of lay all the things that you can do and should do to live credit card free and sleep well while doing it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And let me ask you this question. Why, why do you transfer all of your money to savings and not keep a buffer in your checking account?

[Caller (various female callers)]

So I have all, I get my direct deposit right to my savings account and then I'll move some to my checking for.

[George Camel]

Is that as like a discipline play so that you don't, you're not tempted to spend it?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay, so you're not, you're not like running out of money trying to pay bills during the month you're transferring as much as you need to cover all the bills?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Correct.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. So if you have to make a big purchase like a car rental or a plane tickets or a refrigerator, just pull from savings and move it over into your checking account and then that money will Be there whenever, if you use privacy.com or Apple Pay or any other service like that. But I'm with you on the, on wanting to protect my debit card. And, and again, George, you, you're the one who taught me this. Debit cards have the same fraud protection that credit cards do. There's just a thing in my head about. It feels like the checking account is, is kind of like an arm's length extension from under my mattress. And it feels like I don't want everyone, I don't want to give all these companies that I don't know, like a hand under my mattress to just take money out whatever they want to. Well, I know it doesn't work like that, but. But in my head it does.

[George Camel]

And so when it's your money versus, like the credit card company's money, you feel like, well, man, I'm really exposed here. But if your debit card says Visa or MasterCard, there's a zero liability policy with them. And there's also something called the Electronic Fund Transfer act that covers debit cards in cases of fraud. So the key is, pay attention, report it, and you'll be fine. Your money's not just going to randomly disappear. And I don't keep $100,000 in checking. I keep what I need for the month. So it's not like my entire world's disappearing. So there's a few good you can do there. And hang on the line, we'll send you a copy of the book as well. Great question. Micah is in Jackson, Mississippi. Up next. What's going on, Micah?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Hey, how are you guys doing?

[George Camel]

Doing well. How can we help?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yes, sir. So I am just getting started with using the baby steps to get out of debt.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Welcome to the cult, brother. Welcome.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yeah, yeah. Well, I was ignorant when I first got married. Some of some people told me to do it and I was like, oh, whatever. And now I'm finally, you know, you get older and wiser, gotta do things a little bit better. But I, again, in my ignorance, I purchased a truck and now I'm upside down on it, trying to sell it to get out of debt. And I'm not sure. I've had it posted for sale for several weeks now, and I know it'll probably take longer, but I haven't had any bites on or anybody interested in it. And so I'm just wondering what other course of action I could take to try to get out from underneath this thing quicker.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I got three. I got three things you need to get before the day's Over. You ready?

[Caller (various male callers)]

All right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

An old rag, a can of gasoline and a match. That'll get rid of that truck, right? Just kidding. Don't do any of what I just said. Don't do that. I was just playing with you.

[George Camel]

Here's some real things you could do. You could. You could contact like a Carmax and Carvana and just see what they will give you for it. That'll give you sort of your. Your floor at least, you know, this is the least I'll get for it. If they're offering that trade in value at a dealership is going to be way less. And then your best bet is that private party to get the highest number. But it could take longer. And so I'd be looking at your listing going, are the photos good enough? Is the description good enough? Can I list it other places other than Facebook, Marketplace and Craigslist? Can I ask around to my community or friends to see if anyone's interested in this? What is it currently listed at?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Well, I've got it listed for payoff, so I've got a list of 29 file.

[George Camel]

Okay, so that's what's left on the loan. Yes, but what's it actually worth? If you looked at Kelly Blue Book, private party value.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yes. So I could get 24, $25,000 for it.

[George Camel]

Okay, so you're asking really more than it's worth right now?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yeah, that's the problem. Enough to buy it. So I was hoping somebody else would be ignorant enough to buy it, but

[George Camel]

you know, like, there's a sucker born every. All right, well, I would try lowering the price to what it's actually worth. And so now the difference is on you. So you come up with the difference in cash. So if that's $5,000, you either need to save up 5,000 bucks real quick by working extra selling stuff, or go down to your local credit union and get a personal loan for $5,000 because that's better than being $30,000 in debt. Would you agree?

[Caller (various male callers)]

I do.

[George Camel]

Now, do you have something else to drive or do you need to then buy a beater car in the meantime?

[Caller (various male callers)]

We have my wife's car, but I would have to have something else to drive. And that's what, you know, that's kind of the thing. I want to sell it and then try to get something else. I know a bunch of people that have maybe an extra vehicle they would let me borrow from down to time, you know. But the good thing is I don't live at like five minutes from work.

[George Camel]

Yeah, if you can go to like one car. Family.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Bicycle. Baby bicycle.

[George Camel]

I had a roommate that did that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, it was me.

[George Camel]

He biked to TGI Fridays. Uphill.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I was a dean of students at a graduate school. I my suits in the office. I rode my bike to work. I was that guy.

[George Camel]

That's rock and roll. That's how you keep your physique, John. It's pretty incredible. So those are a lot of things you can do, Micah. But I would not try to sell it for more than it's worth. It's going to take light years to get rid of that thing.

[Announcer]

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[George Camel]

If you're sick and tired of working so hard and have nothing to show for it, that is normal. And normal is broke. And it doesn't have to be that way. Our every dollar budgeting app helps you find extra money every month and build you a personalized plan to beat debt and build wealth. In just 15 minutes, you'll find thousands in hidden margin and you feel like you got a raise. So don't live normal when you can live like no one else. Start everydollar for free in the app store, Google Play. Gail is in San Antonio. What's going on, Gail?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Hi. I'm a little nervous. Take your time wanting to find out if it would be either ill advised or morally wrong to divorce my husband.

[Announcer]

Whoa.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What's going on, Gail?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Well, we've been married 27 years. I got married later in life. I was almost 40 before I got married.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Well, I'm 38 when I got married.

[Caller (various female callers)]

And anyway,

[Caller (various male callers)]

He.

[Caller (various female callers)]

He is two years older than me and he refuses to work. He got fired from his job back in March, has not gotten another job and is not trying to get another job. And I can't keep living like this. We live on Social Security, his and mine. I've been disabled for 26 years. And he just started on Social Security. And it's extremely tight. We have no savings, no retirement, no nothing. And I don't know what to do anymore. I can't keep living like this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

When you say you can't keep living like this, what is the. This is it. You can't keep living like this. The reality that you're 65 and you're staring down the barrel of another 20 or 30 years and you don't have anything saved, y' all got nothing. And that reality you can't keep living like. Or is it is your husband being ugly and abusive? Is it?

[Caller (various female callers)]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We're so. Things are so tight.

[Caller (various female callers)]

I can't stand the stress of not knowing for one day, the next how long we're gonna make it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so the Social Security, his and yours added together is not covering your, your bills, is not giving you any margin.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Well, I get 13.51amonth. Okay, he gets 8 11.

[George Camel]

811.

[Dr. John Deloney]

811.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yep.

[George Camel]

That's it.

[Caller (various male callers)]

That's it.

[George Camel]

Was he not working for a long time?

[Caller (various female callers)]

He is a musician and he worked for cash for most of his life.

[George Camel]

Okay, so you guys are bringing in a little over 2,100 bucks. And that's it?

[Caller (various male callers)]

That's it.

[George Camel]

Do you rent? Do you have a mortgage?

[Caller (various female callers)]

We live in a paid for house. It's kind of an unusual situation. It's is a house that is in a trust for me from my father's estate. We pay the insurance on it.

[George Camel]

You pay insurance and taxes and you got, you know, food and do you have a car? Car insurance, gas, all of that?

[Caller (various female callers)]

We have two cars that are paid for.

[Caller (various male callers)]

They're. They're 22 years old.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All right, let me get into the nitty gritty of this, okay? I'm going to take. I'm going to take an altern route.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Paint me a picture of what happens. Let's say George and I are like, yes, file for divorce today. And you get off the phone and you call a local attorney, you give them $5,000 and they file for divorce today. Then you've been married long enough. The judge forces you to sell this house. You'll split it in half and you're. You've take whatever the amount of money is divided by two and you're holding that and that's all you have for the rest of your life. Unless there's something else in this trust.

[George Camel]

And now you're living off $1300 and

[Dr. John Deloney]

you got 1300 bucks coming in. Will that give you the piece that you're looking for?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Well, let me backtrack just a little bit. I've already talked to an attorney.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Caller (various female callers)]

And when I had my will done and because I wanted to make sure that my husband didn't get anything in my will.

[George Camel]

And they ain't much to get. I mean, like you're saying that my

[Caller (various female callers)]

house, because it's in trust, is not community property. In the state of Texas, anything in

[Caller (various male callers)]

a trust from a will is not community property.

[George Camel]

What's the house worth?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Between 350 and 400.

[George Camel]

Okay. So that's by far your, that's really your only asset at this point. The cars are not worth much and you got nothing in savings or retirement.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Trust the legal advice.

[George Camel]

But even then, there's still this new life. Let's say there's a new chapter where you're solo living in this house. It's paid for, but now you only get your income. Is that the reality?

[Caller (various female callers)]

I can make it.

[Caller (various male callers)]

I've already been putting this to paper for six months.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So why are you calling us? Gail? You've already, you've already left your marriage like you're already out.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Well, I didn't know if it was ill advised to do that or if it was morally wrong for me to do that because I never intended to. You know, I thought it was going to be forever.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I got you the heartbreak of that's there. I, I, I'm not going to outsource my morality to you. I can't be the one that gives you permission to make this life altering decision because I'm convinced there's other things going on here that you're not telling me about, which is completely fine. And I get it. Not one to put all the dirty laundry out on public. I get that. But you have to look in the mirror and say, I am making this decision. I do think there is a till death do us part for sickness and in health, for richer and poor. And I also think fidelity is bigger than being a person of fidelity. Cheating, if you will, does not just happen if you sleep with somebody else. I think being a person of fidelity inside of a marriage, not you can cheat on your spouse with a golf course. You can cheat on your spouse by just sitting on the couch and not participating in the necessary lifeblood of a home and so.

[Caller (various female callers)]

And that's how I feel.

[Caller (various male callers)]

I've been treated then I.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But you have to own that decision. I'm not going to give you that.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. What I want to tell you is you have left your marriage. You just haven't put it on paper yet. If you want to sit down with your husband and say, here is where we are. Here's what I'm about to do. If you want to rebuild something for the back half of the fourth quarter of our life, here's the clear path towards rebuilding trust with me. Here's what I need from you. But what you've told me is it's not financial because you can make it on your 1350. There's something in the alchemy here where seeing him sitting on the couch collecting his $800 is bringing you to a point where I am going to end this marriage. So that tells me there's other things going on here. That's not financial. It's not wondering what's. What's coming next. You got to pay for a house, you got to pay for cars. Like there's something else here. And he deserves, I believe, for you to be very clear and direct with him and respectful and honorable. I treat him with dignity and respect. But here is the thing, or here's the things that have been going on for 20 years, been going on for the last year that are that I am at the doorway to walk out of here, or more, more realistically, you're about to be out of here because I'm staying in this house because it's mine and it's in a trust and it's protected and you can't have any of it. And he will probably say, I'll see you in court and they can duke it out there,

[Caller (various male callers)]

okay?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Because what's he gonna do? He's gonna be 67 year old man, homeless, getting 800amonth.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If it's your way of forcing him back to work, have that conversation with him.

[Caller (various female callers)]

That's what I've tried to do.

[Caller (various male callers)]

I've tried to tell him that, you

[Caller (various female callers)]

know, you can't live on 800amonth and you know, there's no way you'll survive.

[Caller (various male callers)]

And

[Caller (various female callers)]

I mean, we both have life insurance.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Mine is only $50,000 because I wasn't insurable.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, but that's, that's after you. That's. That's for after.

[George Camel]

It doesn't solve any of our problems while we're alive and that's what we're trying to help you do. So your decision to end this marriage solves one problem of one giant problem. And that's what we really want to help you solve for what happens for the next 5, 10, 15 years, not just this year.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Whatever you decision move make moving forward, be very clear eyed about what happens next. Hey, I want to talk to you for a second about love and not love like in Titanic or something. I, I mean responsible love. The kind of love that moves you to take care of the people closest to you. And one of the most important ways to show that kind of love is by having term life insurance. If you have anyone depending on you, a spouse, kids, anyone, you need term life insurance. Term life insurance gives your family real protection if the unthinkable happens so they can spend their time grieving and not worrying about how the bills are going to get paid. Zander is a broker who works for you, shopping the top companies to find the right coverage options for your needs and your budget. In many cases there are options available with no medical exam and instant approval. My wife and I had term life insurance through Zander for years, long before I worked at Ramsey because we trust them. Getting term life insurance is a way of saying I love you when you can no longer say it yourself. Go to zander.com or call 1-800-356 to find the coverage that fits your family.

[George Camel]

Joanna is in Edmonton, Canada. Canada. What's going on, Joanna? How can we help today?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Hi there. Thanks for taking my call. I am just wondering if we are in babysit 2 wondering if we should be paying or selling off our paid vehicles to help pay down this debt.

[George Camel]

Okay, tell us more. How much debt do you guys have?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Total 193,000.

[George Camel]

All right, that's all consumer debt. That's not any mortgages?

[Caller (various female callers)]

No, the mortgages aren't included.

[George Camel]

All right, and what's your household income?

[Caller (various female callers)]

380.

[George Camel]

Fantastic. All right, what are the cars worth?

[Caller (various female callers)]

The truck is worth 40. The car I'm going to say is worth 30. And then we have two Harley Davidsons and they're each about 15.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And those are all paid for?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Yes, they are.

[Announcer]

Wow.

[George Camel]

So what makes up the 193 in debt?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Well, we have 35,000 in credit card. We have loans which.

[George Camel]

Just personal loans?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, just loans. Like we have a solar loan and we have a line of credit and we have a couple loans just for. We had had some dental work done and stuff like that for medical.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Okay.

[Caller (various female callers)]

And then the big one in there is the vote.

[Announcer]

Oh, a boat.

[George Camel]

What's left on the Boat?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Yeah. A hundred thousand.

[George Camel]

And what's this boat worth?

[Caller (various female callers)]

About 130.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Hey.

[Dr. John Deloney]

God Almighty, Joanna. Sell the boat.

[George Camel]

Sell the boat before the cars you need.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You need cars. You don't need a boat.

[George Camel]

Why don't, why aren't you guys willing to sell the boat?

[Dr. John Deloney]

You didn't even mention the boat.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Well, because it's at our cottage and

[Caller (various male callers)]

that's what we love to do when

[Caller (various female callers)]

we're at the cottage.

[George Camel]

Oh, so you have multiple properties.

[Caller (various female callers)]

To be honest, okay, yes, we have two properties.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Joanna, you sound like somebody who makes a bunch of money. You and your, and your partner make a lot of money and y' all don't like saying no to each other.

[George Camel]

You're very improv. Yes. And

[Dr. John Deloney]

I, I, we don't get a lot of.

[Caller (various male callers)]

I wouldn't.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I was just thinking while you were talking, George told somebody to sell their horse one time and he still has a, like still that thing hasn't lived.

[George Camel]

The boat just has a motor.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But. So I'm hesitant to tell Harley people to sell their 2 paid for Harley.

[George Camel]

I'm actually more scared to tell someone to sell a Harley.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, I mean, because this guy can beat me up. But I don't know a lot of Harley lifestyle boaters with a hundred and fifty thousand dollar boat like you. You gotta pick a sub genre, Joanna, and go with it.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Right?

[Caller (male, occasional)]

Yeah.

[Caller (various female callers)]

And this is the thing though. See, we don't ride the Harleys very much anymore because our lifestyle has changed.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Then sell them today.

[George Camel]

Okay, here's the thing. If you sold the and sold The Harleys, that's 130 plus 30. It's 160k of your 193 paid off

[Dr. John Deloney]

and you make 380. So by Christmas you'll be debt free with three easy steps.

[George Camel]

So that's option one. Or you sell the cars and you only have the Harleys to get around in, which is probably not ideal in Canada. And now you still need to go buy new cars, which I'm guessing for your lifestyle is going to be a hard pill to swallow to go buy a $5,000 car.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, you can't drive an 86 used Camry up to your cottage to your $150,000 boat. Right? Like, like the flip of this is Y' all make 380 grand. If you sold this boat, which you love. I. Dude, I love being out on the water. I totally get it. And you sold these motorcycles and then y' all buckle down for four or five months with this great salary, y' all make and you're completely debt free. Then you get to decide, do we want to stay boat people? And if you do, awesome. Y' all make 380 grand within one calendar year, you'll have saved up enough cash, if that's where you want. Correct. Your.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Your.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Your spending power.

[George Camel]

We're not saying never own a boat again.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, Dave has a couple of boats, and they're more expensive than my house. They're awesome.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Right?

[Dr. John Deloney]

And he does these. I don't know. He's almost killed me in George on them multiple times. Like, I love being out on the water, but it comes in an order, right? You just have to decide if we want. If we want to be free people or we want to be boat people more.

[George Camel]

How much do you guys have in savings?

[Caller (various female callers)]

We have just our $1,000 emergency fund, and then we have 10,000.

[George Camel]

You got 10 grand? Okay, so here's my question. Where is the $380,000 going? If we're still taking on lines of credit and payments, where's that money going?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Well, for those debts have been for a while. Like, they've been a long time there, and that's why we weren't getting anywhere. So we got on your program, which we've actually since January, paid off $46,000.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Which way to go?

[Caller (various female callers)]

I think pretty good.

[George Camel]

So take your. Your monthly bills plus your minimum payments. How much is that per month? If you guys buckle down,

[Caller (various female callers)]

we actually owe about 16,000amonth.

[George Camel]

16 grand a month is your burn right now.

[Caller (various female callers)]

So it's. Yeah, it's because we have two homes.

[George Camel]

And how much are you actually taking home every month?

[Dr. John Deloney]

35.

[Caller (various female callers)]

No, we're taking home what he brings home 10. About 20.

[George Camel]

20. Okay, because 380, that's 31 gross. And you're saying you bring home 20. Are you guys doing any investing right now?

[Caller (various female callers)]

No, we paused that because of the program.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller (various female callers)]

I got for retirement.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wait, you only bring home 20, and you make. I guess Canada takes 60% of what you make.

[George Camel]

But let's do the math here, right? You bring home 20, your bills are 16. That leaves you with four if you're lucky to attack your smallest debt. Right? So we're gonna do 193 divided by four. It's gonna take you four years at this rate. If you just use the margin you have making 380, that is soul crushing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Or you can do it in four months.

[Caller (various female callers)]

It is. Yeah.

[George Camel]

So you decide if you're willing to sacrifice for four years to just stay on this plan and knock it out, you Can I personally wouldn't making 380. You should be done with this thing so much faster. And the boat is the thing standing in your way of freedom.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Yeah. So my. I'm on board to do this. This is my idea. But my husband is a little bit hesitant.

[George Camel]

And why is he hesitant? Does he not feel the weight of this like you do do?

[Caller (various female callers)]

He does but I kind of drive it more so he. He's in agreement and we're doing the steps. But I think to sell the boat is going to be a hard sell.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I. I think although if I put

[Caller (various female callers)]

it in perspective the way you just did, that might be different.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's what where I find couples are successful is if one of them is honest about the thing beneath the thing. Cuz the boat will turn into a weird proxy war. Oh we're just gonna go to the cottage and sit on. On the the. On the bank and stare at each other like what about. What about this? What about our grandkids? Like it becomes this whole other thing. If you sit down and say I want us to be a free household. I want us to be free. I don't want to. I don't want the government to own us. I don't want the. They already take 60 of our paycheck. I don't want creditors to own us. I want us to be in charge of our destiny. It's the nerd word of it. The psychology word is agency. I want us to be agents of our future future. And we can get a boat in within a year. I also think y' all can contract your burn rate quite a bit too. Sixteen grand a month over two properties. Y' all are. Y' all are living pretty large at both places, right?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Yeah, probably.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'd say so for six months. For a year y' all could could track those expenses quite a bit and say what if instead of saying here's what everything we want to do adds up to which is 16. What if y' all had an exercise and this could be super fun. It could be lap full of laughter and poking at each other and making jokes, cracking jokes with each other. But say what? Let's pretend our all we had was $9,000 a month. Can we figure that out across two properties? I bet y' all could. And.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Or.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And then Suddenly material like 6,000 bucks just comes out of the ether or $7,000 just appears.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Right.

[George Camel]

So think about it this way. The actual mathematics. If you sold the boat, sold the Harleys, that gives you 160 grand in cash to throw at them 193 now we're down to 33 grand. So now for four months, let's say by Christmas, we're gonna throw eight grand a month at these remaining debts until they're gone. Can you imagine how different Christmas is gonna feel? That's the picture to paint with him. And you know the old quote, the two best days of owning a boat are the day you buy it and the day you sell.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sell it.

[George Camel]

And I think he's not realizing how free he's going to feel when he sells that boat.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you're not going to a summer cottage in Canada in the Christmas anyway.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You can't drive a boat across.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Yeah, but you're not the boat.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, but you can't drive boat across 8ft thick of ice.

[George Camel]

Can you, can you rent a boat for three months?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Can you rent a boat?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Probably.

[Caller (various female callers)]

I've never thought of that idea.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Actually, there's a.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There's a program here in Nashville where you basically pay a monthly fee and every week you can go over and pick the boat you want. You want a speedboat that weekend, you want a pontoon boat that weekend, a couple hundred bucks a month, you want a fishing boat.

[Announcer]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And they service the boat, they fill it up with gas, they take all the. The headaches of boat.

[George Camel]

Probably somebody who lives right near you, who's also broke with a boat who had rented for you for a couple hundred bucks.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And y' all would have the time of your life and have no maintenance.

[Caller (male, occasional)]

It'd be amazing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Amazing.

[George Camel]

I'm all about practical ways to save time and mental energy, especially during the summer when life gets busy. Between vacations, camps, deliveries, travel plans, online shopping, and trying to keep everyone organized,

[Dr. John Deloney]

my mental load can get pretty full.

[George Camel]

That's one of the reasons why I love Delete me. Most people don't realize how many data broker sites have their information online, like old addresses, phone numbers, and even family connections. And that can put you at risk of being a target for spammers and scammers. But removing all of it yourself can turn into a giant project. That's why Delete Me is amazing, because Delete Me handles it for you. Their privacy team of experts removes your personal information from hundreds of data broker sites and they keep monitoring it throughout the year. Year so far, Delete Me has saved me about 90 hours. I would have spent myself removing my information. And honestly, it feels so good knowing that someone is in the background helping

[Dr. John Deloney]

me and I don't even have to think about it.

[George Camel]

So this summer, give Yourself a vacation with one less thing to manage. Get 20% off annual plans at joins eliteme.com Ramsey that's joinseliteme.com Ramsey.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Ramsey.

[George Camel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel here with Dr. John DeLoney. We're taking your calls at Triple 882-55-2225. Austin is in Orlando up next. What's going on, Austin?

[Caller (male, occasional)]

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call. Can you hear me okay?

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Gotcha, man. What's up?

[Caller (various male callers)]

What's up?

[Caller (male, occasional)]

Awesome. Well, it's an absolute pleasure to be speaking with you guys today. So I appreciate you having me on the show. I'll try to keep it brief. I want to honor your guys's time. The question I have is mostly a relationship question, but there's some finances involved. Basically. My wife and I, we bought a home down here in Florida about four months ago. And that was about the same time that we discovered you guys as baby steps. I'm active duty. I'm in the military. She works from home. And we've been working pretty hard to cut down the amount of debt that we have. My mom and other family and friends, it's, it's kind of funny. Like when you buy a house down in Florida, suddenly you have more friends and family than you thought you did.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Very similar to nationality.

[George Camel]

Long time, no talk.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, yeah, right, right.

[Caller (male, occasional)]

And so my wife, she's so, she's so much more understanding, I think, and graceful than I am about this. But my mom basically has joked around and been like, because she's obviously working through debt and stuff that she has, but she's always been like, well, I'm, I'm just gonna die with debt. I'm not really worried about paying off my debt. I'll just come down there and live with you guys. And at first I was like, oh, that's really funny. But, but now she's like being kind of serious about it. And my wife, she has told me, you know, like, we've talked about it a lot and she's been like, I think maybe, you know, you should be a little more understanding. And it's not going to be that bad if she did want to end up living with us. We have a two and a half year old little girl at home and I guess I'm trying to figure out. My question is, am I being not understanding enough? Am I, am I being too stubborn or hardheaded by not being open to this sort of thing?

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, not at all. I want you to Be honest with yourself. And here's what I mean by that. There's the money part and there's the debt part.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But you know, this is your mom. You've been with her longer than your wife has. You know what her moving in would mean for the, the temperature and the electricity and the angst and the. Whatever else in your household.

[George Camel]

The vibes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, the, the, yeah. As, as George and the young kids say, the vibes of the household. Right. So, you know, some people let their, their mom move in and it would be the greatest thing ever because they would dote on your two year old. You and your wife would have date nights whenever you're home. It would be awesome.

[Caller (male, occasional)]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And also there's mothers and, and fathers who would move in and they would think that you're seven again and they're going to tell you what you're going to do and when you're going to do it and why aren't you doing it like this.

[George Camel]

Or your job is to take care of them.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And cook for them and provide for every one of their needs while they

[Dr. John Deloney]

continue to be irresponsible with any number of things. So, you know, the true. Here's the, the, the total cost financially. Yes. Relationally, the impact on your marriage. And so, you know, the full picture there. So be honest with yourself about that. The other thing I think that's kind of haunting you, that you can just cut to the chase. I would, I would, next time your mom's in town, I would take her out for coffee and say, mom, are you officially asking to move in with us?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Because right now there's a lot of ambiguity and you're starting to create stories about what she means and what she says and how she's saying it. Just cut to the chase.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yeah.

[Caller (male, occasional)]

I think that, I think that's a really good approach. And I thought about that. The other thing I think I get, I get kind of like worried about is I don't, I don't want my mom to die with debt. And she's very comfortable with that sort of thing. And I know at the same time, because my wife and I are on the same page about this, like it's not our responsibility or obligation to make sure that, you know, all her debts and stuff are squared away and paid for. But that's, you know, that's what we're working towards in our personal life right now. And I think that she has seen how we're doing with that sort of thing. We've had the ability to pay off over a hundred thousand dollars of debt in the last year, which felt really awesome. And, and I think that, you know, she's kind of like, well, if I, if I move in with you guys and I won't have a mortgage and I'll just die with my debt and it'll be fine. And I don't want that for her and my wife doesn't want that for her. So I guess that was kind of the crux of like my question today

[Dr. John Deloney]

is like, if she doesn't care, then, then you can't impose that value system on her.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And you can't care more than she does about it. You don't need to take on that burden because the truth is, I hope she doesn't die with the debt. And if she does, you don't need to carry that. That's not your fault.

[Dr. John Deloney]

She hasn't invited you into that conversation.

[Caller (male, occasional)]

Right. And she's so like, she's not even. My mom has this tendency to like age herself. She's not even like elderly. She's like 55.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

But is she working full time?

[Caller (male, occasional)]

She is, yeah. She, she's been a nurse my entire life. God bless her. Like, she's been doing it forever and she is at the point now where she is a nurse practitioner, but she kind of like works from home type of thing. Yeah. And does telehealth. And like she has a great income but she's also not really like doing a lot about her debt situation. And so I'm trying to like remove myself from being super worried about that all the time because it's, it's not my situation. But our relationship has gotten better over the years and, and I, I obviously don't want that for her. So I guess it's just a matter of like, you know, having the conversation with her. Then it sounds like, yeah, well, where

[Dr. John Deloney]

I've seen this go really awry is when adult kids try to lecture their aging parents on any number of topics, but especially about sex and especially about money. Like parents don't want to hear that from their kid. But I've seen people be successful and I'm going to be honest, it's, it's a more limited success us by. You sit down and say, mom, are you asking to move in? And if it's true, you and your wife have talked it through, if you were to say, we would love you to move in and, but we have a picture of what that would look like. And here's the reality of our home. We have a two year old and so we need some help with some child care and some support. And we don't also have the money or the support or the time or whatever to get childcare for our kid because you're going to need a quiet place to work from home. Like, think through the logistics of that when you have that conversation and then be honest with your mom in that same conversation. Mom, I have to tell you, like, almost like you're a person who just came to Faith, except you just came to this, this new freedom in, in finance, right? Which is me and my wife have dedicated the last year and a half of our life to not owing anybody any money because we want to be free. We paid off a hundred grand. If you. And you can tell her I'm worried about your future because you don't have any retirement that I know of. And, and if you want some skills or some tools, the ones that we're using, I would love to sit down and walk you through what we've done to change our life. And what you're doing there is you're giving her permission as a 55 year old to. Which can be hard, right? It can be hard to say, I don't know how to do a thing. And it can feel extra hard to look at your kid and say, I don't, don't know how to do a thing, but you're doing it well. Will you teach me? There's just a, there's a, there's a. I don't say it's a shame barrier, but you get what I'm saying. It just feels weird. Maybe if one of your officers called you in and was like, hey, you have a great marriage. Can you teach me how to talk to my wife? Like, that would be an awkward thing, right? So there's a, like a reverse power differential here. So you bridging it and saying, I got a new toolkit a year ago and these tools are helping us build something amazing. I would love to share these tools with you if you're interested. And then beyond that, you can't force her to want to be a part of it. All you and your wife can do is say, as for our house, here's the values of our house. And one other thing I would add is pre plan a separation conversation. And what I mean by that is have a conversation for what if this goes sideways? Because I don't want to lose my mom and I don't want to lose a roommate and at the same time lose a mom. If we get to a place where it's not working out or it's uncomfortable or your job is is not jiving with our kids nap schedule like let's have a conversation with for how do we stay connected and have a great relationship and not be roommates down the road if we get there?

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[George Camel]

See store for details. Isaac is up next in Little Rock, Arkansas. What's going on Isaac? How can we help today?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Hi Dr. John. Hi George. This is really awesome. I guess I never really figured to talk to you guys. So my question is is I'm an automotive technician. Right now I make around $100,000 rejected for this year. Wow. And I'm looking into moving into the like journeyman electrician field. But my hang up is I have a wife and two younger children. My wife and I are 22 and 23 and we have a almost four year old and a one year old.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Why you want it? Why do you want to change?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Mostly just I guess it's very hot here in Arkansas so we don't have AC in the shop. So it definitely makes it miserable. I guess working in a shop and also it just I want to move into a career field that can project more and I would love to be a business owner one of these days and starting a business in the automotive field is definitely more difficult I feel like than starting your own independent business as an electrician.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you feel like that or do you know that?

[Caller (various male callers)]

I know that I have a lot of family members that are business owners. We have a family member, family member who has a friend who owns his own electrician company who he started with his own van and just kind of went over, went from house to house helping people out until he grew in into like a multi million dollar business. And I know there's just a lot of overhead with opening an automotive shop with tools, equipment and all that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So when somebody tells, like, here's what I want to direct you towards being fully honest about why you want to make this change. And here's what I mean, I'm in, I'm in Tennessee and I grew up in Texas. You're in Arkansas. So we're in the same region. Ish.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The guys who just came in and replaced my air conditioning unit, the H vac guys and then the electricians. It was probably 120 degrees up in my attic. Maybe 130.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Like, and if you want to be an electrician and work out on all those data centers that are popping up all over Texas and Arkansas, it is hot outside. And when it's not hot outside, you get those wicked cold burn cold winters. Right. All that to say is if you're going to be in the trades, you're probably going to deal with extremes when it comes to weather. Right. So trying to escape automotive because it's too hot, that, that's a guy who wants to get a new job and is trying to scratch and claw for reasons instead of just saying, what I really want to do is be a business owner. I want to make a jillion dollars and I want to have a bunch of employees and help them take care of their families. And here's a path towards that. And that path is going to require sacrifice. Otherwise you're going to get into another job and it's going to be hot there. You're going to get into another job and it's going to be hot there.

[George Camel]

In that case, you'd go get a desk job in a corporate building if you really wanted to get out of the elements.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so the other thing I'd recommend you do is don't talk to a relative who's got a friend. See if you can go have coffee with the guy who actually owns that business. Because he'll do two things. He'll tell you about the beauty of it and the fun of it and he'll also. So he'll take all the shine off of it and say here's the scratch and call you're signing up for. Because building a multi million dollar electric electrician business is a freaking grind.

[George Camel]

And then the question is what about all these other dudes who run their own electrician business who aren't making multiple millions? That's also a possibility. So we all, you know, don't get too starry eyed of the grass is greener on the other side. But I love the idea if you're really into becoming an electrician, that's a great goal to have long term. But it sounds like you guys have some priorities right now of paying off some debt.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yeah, so I've always been driven to the electrical field of like the trades and stuff like that. I went into automotive mostly just because that's kind of what I learned. But my wife and I have $4200 that we owe to my parents for purchase for help purchasing our house. And we owe around $11,000 in credit card debt. But I negotiated one of those down to $3,000 from $6,000 for settlement. So.

[Caller (male, occasional)]

Yeah.

[Caller (various male callers)]

And then I guess the biggest hang up is we moved to Arkansas and we have no family or no friends here at all when we moved here. So we have not a great community outside of maybe our church community. And our house is around $2,500 just for the mortgage alone a month. So it's definitely a huge chunk over that 25%.

[George Camel]

What's your actual take home price pay?

[Caller (various male callers)]

My take home pay is it varies because I'm on billed hours. So anywhere I make around 16 to 19 hundred dollars a week.

[George Camel]

Okay, so we're talking 6400amonth on a bad month?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yeah, I would say so.

[George Camel]

So it's about 40% of your take home pay. Maybe a little less if you have a good month. So that's not great. You need to be making more money. And I think going the electrician route there's going to be a long period of time where you're going to get a pay cut.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yeah, it looks around. I'll be taking half the pay until I get out of that apprenticeship field and then I'll go up to like $100,000 again and then more from there after like five to six years of being.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Is that four years? Is that five years? How long is an apprenticeship?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Four to five years in Arkansas.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But you wouldn't want to live in Arkansas and you need to sell your house because you couldn't afford to keep your house with a 50% pay cut and y' all were on family.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yeah, that's my hang up. Well, I guess it would be more of just like my wife being at home with kids because she's a stay at home mom. So it's whether or not she would be able to handle being at home while I'm going to night classes and doing the apprenticeship and everything too.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What does she say about it when you talk to her about it?

[Caller (various male callers)]

She really wants me to, you know, to pursue that, but it's, it's very difficult right now because we want to get all of our debt paid off and save up to like the six months before we even think about moving a career or anything like that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I think that's super, super wise.

[George Camel]

Very wise. And you, the good news is you are so young, you got so much time and I don't want you to ever feel like, man, I don't, I don't have time. Like I'm, I'm 22, I want to do this by the time I'm 25. It's okay if you become an electrician at 30, you still got a good 30 year career ahead of you running a business.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Especially if you have $200,000 in the bank that y' all can draw down while you're taking this big pay cut.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Can you imagine if you had a buffer and cushion to where you could do this with peace instead of desperation?

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you. And like George said, man, we sound like two old men. I get that. But my first year of marriage, we, my wife and I were in a different city. And after 18 months I realized, oh, my wife is completely alone here with no community. And so we moved and I had to start a new career, a new gig. It ended up being the greatest thing that ever happened to me. And then one time we bought a house and I realized, we realized this is too much house for us and we sold it within 11 months. I had to take a check to closing because I still hadn't covered the realtor fees with appreciation on the house all. Here's what I'm telling you, that it's okay to recognize we made a mistake or we got in over our heads or we need to make a huge change so that when we're 30, when we're 40, when we're 50, we can have the life we want. What's not a good idea is to a just jump ship with nothing. So you're wise to get your debts paid off and get a big chunk of cash in the bank. And you're also wise to not chase sunk cost. Well, we already moved here, so let's just keep dumping money in this house we can't afford. And we already did this. So like Pull the rip cord if you need to. Pull the rip cord, man. Move back to where you're around family. If you can get an apprenticeship there.

[George Camel]

And I would just rent there. Sell your house rent for a while until you know, here's my stable income as an electrician. And then you can do this whole thing over with a whole lot of peace. And right now you guys aren't in too much of a lurch. You can pay this debt off pretty quick if you get after it. How long would it take you to pay it off? Making 100k.

[Caller (various male callers)]

So right now I, with the settlement I agreed on, it's going to be $500 a month for six months. So January is what I kind of just tried to urgent that we on baby step two. So I have a thousand dollars saved up right now and I have $500 in the account for the first payment.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So you have other debts too? Yeah, you owe 14 grand total or it's down to six. You have 10 grand total. How quick do you can pay off 10 grand?

[Caller (various male callers)]

I would hope within the next year.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's a long time. You make a hundred grand.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yeah, it's, it's a lot of lifestyle living that I'm trying to go through our budget and try and figure out where our money's going because I feel like it's kind of just disappearing and we're not really watching it as wisely as we should be.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, you don't need like, it's not a six month like spelunking expedition. It's a, it's a long evening with you and your spouse, you and your wife sitting down in front of a budget like, and you don't need Claude to dig through the like.

[George Camel]

And we know 40% is the mortgage, so now there's only 60% to figure out.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, and now we're sitting down and just doing the math.

[George Camel]

Diapers, formula, gas, do we have to

[Dr. John Deloney]

buy our organic foods? We can't go out to eat for a while because we owe money. Right. So it's, it's not this big long PhD thesis. It's just sitting down and saying here's how much money we have, here's where we can contract our expenses and let's get on a budget together.

[George Camel]

As a dad of young kids, I'm starting to think a lot more about the world they're growing up in and how I'll help them make sense of it as they get older. And that's why I like World Watch, a video news service for preteens and teens. Because one thing I know for sure, if you don't teach your kids how to understand the world, somebody else will. And these days that could be TikTok, YouTube, Instagram influencers, or whoever happens to show up in their social media feed Feed World Watch's 10 minute videos help young people understand what's happening in the world through a Christian worldview without all the outrage, negativity and noise that is everywhere these days. The reporting is factual, engaging and designed specifically for preteens and teens. And World Watch creates opportunities for something every family needs more of meaningful conversations. Instead of just reacting to headlines, kids learn how to think about what's happening in the world and parents get a chance to keep those conversations going at home.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Home.

[George Camel]

Because when my kids are old enough, I want them informed, not overwhelmed. And right now you can get a 30 day free trial. Just go to Worldwatch News Ramsey or use promo code Ramsey to get started. That's Worldwatch News Ramsey. Our question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. When past due private student loans keep pulling you backwards, it's hard to focus on what's ahead. Why? Refi helps borrowers with low fixed rate refinancing options that fit your budget so you can focus on the Future again. Visit yrefi.com Ramsey may not be available

[Dr. John Deloney]

in all states all right, today's question comes from Todd in Nevada. Nevada. Todd writes, I've recently become aware of betting sites like Kalshi and Polymarket where you can wager on the outcome of real world events such as elections, celebrity engagement, sports, etc. What is the Ramsey stance on this type of betting?

[George Camel]

Oh boy. The Ramsey stance on gambling via dopamine based apps that involve stealing your money. I give you my take on it. I don't know the the big Ramsey stances. If you're going to do anything like this, ideally don't. But if you are going to do it, do it with fun money after you're already out of debt. Investing for the future. And this is basically your you like a fun hobby.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Dave says if you can light that money on fire in the middle of your living room and it doesn't, it might break your heart but it doesn't change the trajectory of your month or your year or your life, then it's like any other expense. I don't need another guitar, but I kind of want one. If I want to take that guitar money and go to Vegas instead of blackjack table it's, it's an experience. It's fun. But so that's kind of the, the overall stance on any sort of these kind of things. I, I do not have an app on my phone. I don't participate in these things, especially like Poly Market because these things have become so rigged. Was it. Trump announced the other day he's going to start selling early access to his truth social media so you can know what he's about to post and begin to like. I just.

[George Camel]

Did you hear the story about the White House teleprompter operator?

[Dr. John Deloney]

No.

[George Camel]

He knew exactly what was going to be in Trump's speeches and so he started betting and he made over 100 grand.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So he knew what was going to be in the speech.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There's too many. The thing about betting on a sports event ideally is there's performance enhancing, drug testing and of course we know. I'm an Astros fan, we know sports teams cheat.

[Caller (male, occasional)]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But there's, there's supposed to be built in restrictions so that the outcome is what the outcome is when it comes to polymarket stuff, man, it's. So there's too many actors in too many different places that can influence or not have early insights, etc. So dude, I, I stay away from all that stuff. I just don't. I just don't participate.

[George Camel]

I. Here's my honest. And I'm pretty brutal on this. I think it's a financial cancer on society. This entire thing of. It's really a byproduct of what has been coined financial nihilism, which is people don't believe in the system anymore to such a point where they want to go to the riskiest investment possible, riskiest bets possible because they don't feel like they can retire the traditional way like their parents did. So that's what we're seeing is a movement of young people flock towards these sports betting apps, whatever it is, whether it's call sheet, Poly market, FanDuel bet, MGM. They're just trying to get a little bit of dopamine and the chance of getting rich is what's keeping them coming back.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I would. That's an interesting take, man. I haven't heard the, the phrase financial nihilism, although I hear the sentiment all the time.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Just they feel like the game is rigged. It is rigged and, and people are

[George Camel]

frustrated and yolo it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I get it.

[George Camel]

If I got 50 bucks, why invest it into the stock market? I'd rather just go on polymarket, have a good time.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, the, my, not my psychological take because there's, there's a lot of, of some of the Smartest neuroscientist and psychological social scientists who participate in helping, making some of these apps as. As addictive as possible. As hard to get off of all that.

[George Camel]

So there's as difficult to make money on as possible.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There's a science behind all this. But I also think there's a broader concern, a broader cancer in our culture, if you will. And that is, we don't do anything as a culture. People go home.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Home.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And they just stay there. And so there's a sense of be every. We have a culture of zombies who are dead in their own skin. And the most exciting thing happens on a TV show that's the most exciting thing in their life. The most exciting thing that could happen is somebody's sports team. Think about that. We're going to pay some other guys to wear the jersey of the town I'm in. And y' all play the game for me and y' all decide whether I have a good week or not. I love sports, but it's this outsourcing of, you go play for me. Instead of going down the street to a local softball league and getting invested and being overdramatic about you're cheating and this guy always right. So there's something about backing up and saying, if feeling alive to you is happening in the. In the darkness of your own living room, in the glow of a screen, that is a huge signal that you have created a life for yourself that has no life to it. And so turning the lights off in your own. Turning the lights on in your own living room and asking, what brings me life? Like, what brings me excitement? It's why you and I went down the street a couple years ago and we're like, let's just go do a stand up comedy night. We were so nervous backstage. We were scared. We worked on our stuff. But it brought life to me. I talked about it for days afterwards. I was like, oh, I should have done this. It brought life to me. And we made friends doing it. We. We were in the green room with other guys who are trying. Other men and women are trying to do this too. It's the reason we go hiking. It's the reason you go fishing. It's the reason why I love hunting. What. Where are things in my life where I can inject life into them and get excited about real things in the real world and not be captured by this other thing. It's like a hack to inject life into your. Your, your lifeless body here. And man, if you, if you're finding that you have this is the only thing that brings you joy and life, man. That is a.

[George Camel]

You've built a terrible life.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's a. Yeah, it's a ringing bell in your life to back up and say, dude, you get one ride on this one. You get one. One ride.

[George Camel]

I can tell a lot about how your life is going based on your iPhone home screen.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There you go.

[George Camel]

So if you've got all the betting apps on there, I'm like, man, this guy is. He's struggling.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, go. Go join a bowling league. Go join a local soccer rip. Ken Coleman. Go join a pickleball league for God.

[George Camel]

Ken didn't die, by the way. He's just not our co worker anymore.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He said his empty desk is between me and George. And I still get sad sometimes, but, like, go create a life worth living is what I want to say.

[George Camel]

Beautifully said. Hope that answered your question. Todd in Nevada. Nevada. Sorry. Don't come at me, guys. All right, Marianne's in Lansing, Michigan. Up next, Marianne, I apologize for our rambling.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Thank you for taking my call. I appreciate it. I am going to be getting married at the end of August this year, and I'm calling just to make sure that I'm making a wise choice. We're going back and forth deciding if we need to rent versus buy. Now. Renting for about six months after we get married will give us more flexibility to choose the right house. My future husband wants to initially buy after we get married because he wants to see about building equity in a home, and I just want to see if renting is a possibility just to make sure that we are in the right area before we buy a house.

[George Camel]

Okay, well, here's the checklist before you buy a home, especially as you're going to get married. Number one, we always recommend renting for a while because you're already combining your lives. There's already a lot of pressure there and newness. We don't need to add the stress of homeownership onto that. So renting for a while is great. Number two, are you guys completely dead? Fraud free?

[Caller (various female callers)]

We. He just has a car payment. He has just $2,000 left on it.

[George Camel]

Okay, how much do you guys have in savings?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Savings total would be $80,000.

[George Camel]

Okay, and what's that earmarked for?

[Caller (various female callers)]

I'm not sure.

[George Camel]

Okay. I'm just shocked.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He still has your 80,000 or it's his 80,000 thousand.

[Caller (various female callers)]

It's mine.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And he has nothing.

[Caller (various female callers)]

No, he has. He has something. I have to see the specific amount it he Last time was 50 000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Why does he have a car payment still?

[Caller (various female callers)]

He's. He was trying to pay it off slowly. He just got it. So that's why.

[George Camel]

Okay. I think you guys need some financial alignment. That's another huge piece of this whole puzzle. Before you guys get married, we need to make sure that our values are the same because otherwise you're going to have some fun newlywed financial arguments.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And they're not.

[George Camel]

And this is. This is just like a little surface level on should we rent or should we buy right now? But you guys need to decide. Are we going to be people who live consumer debt free who have an emergency fund who have a strong down payment? Because this whole thing of I'm going to build equity with 0% down and most of the money is going toward the lender on the front half of the loan. So renting is not a sin. It's not throwing away money. You're buying yourself patience until you can get to a place where you have some financial stability and do this out of a place of strength. Not just out of. Well, I want to build equity. And I was told once you're married you should own a home.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You win, Marianne. Y' all should rent for a while.

[Announcer]

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[George Camel]

We wish we could get to every call and question here on the show. So if you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, we've got you. Head over to our website and use Ask Ramsey. It's our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. You'll get an answer the same way we would answer it here, right on the show, probably even better if we're going to be honest. So ask your question [e-mail] or click the link in the description if you're listening on Podcast or YouTube. Ben is in Boston. Up next. Ben, welcome to the show.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Hey guys, thank you so much for having me. I've listened to you all for so long. So it's pretty surreal to be talking with you all right here.

[George Camel]

Well, thank you. It's an honor for us as well. How can we help today?

[Caller (various male callers)]

I wanted to ask right now I'm lucky. I'm really blessed to make a very good salary. Also have a very high cost of living in the Boston area. Boston is not cheap, high expenses. We also have two small kids, one on the west. And while I've listened to you all for a while pretty recently became serious about, you know what, I want to pay off my debts. I want to really, as you all say, start the process of living like no one else but we. So right now I do have enough funds to pay off my debts other than my mortgage, something I've been excited about. The issue is I've heard pretty credibly that my where I work is going to be downsizing soon. That it seems like the next three, four, maybe up to six months I'm going to be losing my job. And from my research, I do think my next job will involve a real substantial pay cut, most likely. So I'm trying.

[George Camel]

What kind of field are you in?

[Caller (various male callers)]

The legal field.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Are you, are you licensed in the legal field? Are you legal adjacent reason?

[Caller (various male callers)]

I am. I'm an attorney and I work in a pretty specialized area. Class action area.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sure.

[Caller (various male callers)]

And I've been at my in my current role for going on 10 years now. Kind of worked my way up there, become pretty senior. And it also I've worked my way up to kind of know what's around the corner.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sure.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Which does seem like we're going to be. Yeah, it does seem like it's a very best case scenario looking at a big pay cut. I mean right now I'm making about 375 a year all in. My wife is making about 65 from my research. Unless if I really want to change things up, different field of law, completely different work, life, balance, everything else. It seems like we'll probably be going down to like 175, 200, which is still, don't get me wrong, it's a, you know, on paper it's a good salary, we have high expenses.

[George Camel]

It's a different lifestyle.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's a different lifestyle.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You know, you don't have to apologize, but it's a 50% pay cut overall, so that's a big deal.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So how much debt do you have

[Caller (various male callers)]

in terms of how much debt? And this is all baseline savings. I could pay this off now, but it wouldn't leave me with much. I've got about 85 in student loans. My wife has maybe 35 in student loans. Have 20 on a no interest credit card, about 10 to 15 on my car. And there's maybe a few other little ones, but I all on savings right now. I've got like 180 in savings with my wife. We have 180 in savings.

[George Camel]

And what was that year mark for?

[Caller (various male callers)]

It was, at first it was an emergency fund. It kind of grew. I was going to invest it a little more. We do have high expenses. We have two kids now. They're on the way. And so, I mean, daycare loan is like right now in the $4,000 a month range, which is pretty for one child. For two kids.

[George Camel]

Okay. I was like, oh man, I'm from Boston. I'm, I'm shocked by that. Okay, so four grand a month, two grand for each kid makes more sense. So if you paid off all the debt, would you have like 30k left in the emergency fund?

[Caller (various female callers)]

I would.

[Caller (various male callers)]

And we do have again, we have some investments as well. We, you know, are somewhere around the $100,000 range of investments. So we paid it all off, we'd have some money, we would not be broke. I wouldn't be worried about where are we going to eat the next month. But with, with this pay cut and such, you know, part of me is like maybe I should take a pause, wait to see where things shake out when they sh. Maybe I'm wrong about my research and what the options are here.

[George Camel]

Well, my fear is it's always going to be looming. So you'll never pay off the debt. And if you do now you're stuck with all these debts and the layoff. So if I'm in your shoes, the best thing you could do is pay off all the debt today. You're left with 30 grand and then just stack money with all those freed up payments for the next three to six months. Now we're back to, you know, 60 to 80 to 100 grand with no debt. That puts you in a way better situation.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're trading an Unknown future. I'm going to have a pile of cash to cover all of these payments and the expensive lifestyle that we have for. I'm going to have no payments. So if, if my house gets hit, I'm gonna, I'm not gonna owe anybody anything.

[Announcer]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And worst, worst case scenario, my wife has to pause her job and stay at home with the kids so we can. Because she's making 60. But after taxes and after, you know, driving back and forth and parking and all that. Actually we, we about net out from the $4,000. We like you all have to make some significant, ask some bigger lifestyle questions. But I like the idea of heading into a storm knowing every, everything is shored up. Not having a whole bunch of shovels to dig out all the gravel if, if a storm comes. And the other thing I haven't heard you talk about, dude, if, if I got word, George and I are, I mean we're brought into a lot of leadership conversations here. If I got word that I'm going to be out of a job, that Ramsey decided we're going to close down shows in six months, you better believe man, I'm going to be all hitting the street talking to everyone I know, trying to ask, hey, what does your studio do? What does your agency do? Do you all have this like I, I would want to take agency into my own hands as much as possible. Not just sit and hope it all happens. If you're making375.5, you might be a partner and you may be a part of equity split and all that, but you know what else you are? You're a real good lawyer.

[Caller (various male callers)]

You know, I, I appreciate that and I think that all makes sense to me. I will say when I send my debt, I did not include my mortgage. We still have a, a good amount of money left on the mortgage and obviously right now we're not thinking of selling the house or anything like that. Hopefully it doesn't come to that. But I do agree. I mean if we can get rid of all the shovels but the mortgage, it simplifies things for sure. And I'm. Yeah, I thought that's what you all would say. But want to tell I wanted to make sure.

[George Camel]

The question is, are you gonna do it? Ben, People want to know what's he going to do after this call? How have we been convincing enough in five minutes to make you make this six figure move?

[Caller (various male callers)]

I will, honestly, I was leading that way but then I was just a little worried. You know what? I should talk to some people from

[George Camel]

Ramsey That's a classic lawyer answer. He didn't even answer. It was a yes or no question, your honor.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You didn't answer, and you made me feel good. That means you're a great lawyer.

[Caller (various male callers)]

We're going to. We're going to. We're going to pay it off. We're going to pay it off this year.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay? So, like, I want to paint you a picture. Okay, Ben, you ready?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Let's do it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

This time tomorrow. Except for your mortgage, you and your wife owe nobody anything in the world. And you have $30,000 in cash, right. And you make 375. Together with your wife, you'll make a little over 4k a year. I mean, 400 grand. You and her shake hands and say, for the next three months, six months, we are going to contract our spending as much as possible. We're going to find joy in each other. She. She's pregnant also, right? Is that what you said?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yeah. We've got another one coming.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So we're going to circle the wagons on our house. We're going to catch up on some shows. We're going to go on walks in these super hot but sometimes super cool Boston winners. You're going to start spending time with the kids at a park. Y' all are going to just circle the wagons on your spending for a seat season and you're going to stack cash maniacally.

[George Camel]

So if you can bring. You guys bring home like 25k a month right now

[Caller (various male callers)]

if after we take it out, taxes, the 401k contribution, stuff like that, it's a little bit under that, but yeah, not. Not possible.

[George Camel]

Okay, so let's say you could live on 10, even with daycare and the mortgage without any debt payments. Could you live on 10k?

[Caller (various male callers)]

It would be a little bit higher than that, honestly. If there's no daycare, sure. But if there is not, you take

[George Camel]

half of your take pay and just shove it in savings for the next six months.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yep.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And is it. If you do get laid off, are you going to get some sort of severance?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Usually the answer is yes, but I think things are pretty unclear. So I'm not. I don't want to count on that just in case.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I'm just trying to paint you a positive future here that you wake up in six months. So you wake up January 1st of 27, you have 110, 150 grand in the bank. You don't owe anybody anything except for your house. House. You have a new third kid. They're healthy, they're awesome. And Your boss calls you in and says, sorry, man, you kind of heard the words, but you're on the list. And so here's X number of dollars. Here's three months severance for you to go, whatever. And you've already put in the work. You got back in the associations. You started going to the, to the monthly. The.

[Caller (various male callers)]

The.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The Boston Legal association meetings. You started shaking hands. You started calling old friends from law school. And you have a new job already lined up, brother. Like I. I'm talking a complete 180 from the world y' all are living and you are free, free, free. That, to me, is a positive vision I would really latch on to.

[George Camel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show and the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Camel here with Dr. John Deloney. We're taking your calls at 8888255 225. Cheyenne is in Dallas, Texas. What's going on, Cheyenne?

[Caller (various male callers)]

I'm good. How about you guys?

[George Camel]

Doing great. What's your question?

[Caller (various male callers)]

So I have around $600,000 worth of Pokemon cards. I buy and sell them. I have $300,000 in my personal collection. I don't know if I should sell all of them or if I should, like, hold on to them as viable investment.

[Announcer]

Wow.

[George Camel]

How old are you?

[Caller (various male callers)]

I'm 18.

[George Camel]

How long you been doing this?

[Caller (various male callers)]

I think since I was like 10.

[George Camel]

So you are buying new packs or are you buying cards and. And flipping them and holding on to them and they go up in value. How did this all work out?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yeah, I was buying cars, flipping them, holding them. Wow.

[George Camel]

So how much have you spent to get here?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Probably around like 150. $150,000.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Wow.

[George Camel]

Are you working? Where'd you come up with this money?

[Dr. John Deloney]

What are you talking about, George? This is work. You're cr. I mean, where'd you get 150,000 experience?

[Caller (various male callers)]

No, it was slow when I started. Right. So now I'm making like $60,000 a month buying and selling the cards.

[George Camel]

Wow, that is wild.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So you said you have 300,000 in your personal collection, but you've got $600,000 holding. Tell me about the other 300,000.

[Caller (various male callers)]

So I go to card shows and I have a table and I sell the cards to other people.

[George Camel]

And that's how you. You're saying you could make 300 grand if you offloaded all of these at the card shows?

[Caller (various male callers)]

I could make for my personal collection. If I was to photo, I could make like 280,000.

[George Camel]

So when you say personal, what's the Other ones?

[Caller (various male callers)]

The other ones are the ones I'm already selling.

[George Camel]

Oh, so you're already selling half of them? Essentially, yeah. And you don't want to sell the other half?

[Caller (various male callers)]

No, but I don't know if it makes sense because I'm in college right now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So when the smoke clears on all of this. If you sold your personal collection today, you called one of your broker buddies and they just wrote you a check for 280 grand. Let's do 300 for easy math. Plus what you already have contracted to sell you as an 18 year old if you did all of this this time next week. And of course, dude, I don't know how the trade goes and how they move money around, but let's just pretend it was cut and dry this time next week. How much money would you have in your checking income account?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Oh, you're on like exactly. Like around like 600,000.

[George Camel]

$600,000 at 18?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yeah. Wow.

[George Camel]

Well, what's your, what's your sort of end goal here? Like what do you want to be doing at 23?

[Caller (various male callers)]

I want to eventually start my own business.

[George Camel]

Doing what in the card world or something else?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So this is it. Like you are, you're obsessive about this. This is your passion. If you could snap your fingers, you would be a full time trading cards.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay, well is it a viable investment? No, this is speculative. And so you could see, let's say, you know, obviously Pokemon is holding strong right now, but we don't know what two years from now where things will be, if there'll be a 50% crash overnight one day. We just don't know.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Where that's not going to happen. In the stock market. There's, there's a true sort of speculative supply demand issue right now with Pokemon cards that does not exist in the

[Dr. John Deloney]

stock market or if, if there was a major stock market correction and I've got to take my money to keep my property, my home afloat. I'm going to not use disposable income or borrowed income or if there's a contraction, a credit contraction like happened in 08 and 09. I'm not going to borrow money to buy cards on speculative value. Right. But if this is what you want to do, I, I don't know, man. You got $600,000, you're an 18 year old. Why are you in college if this is what you want to do? You're clearly good at this is what I'm saying.

[Caller (various male callers)]

It's cuz my parents wanted me to go to College, and I have, like, practically a full ride right now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[George Camel]

What are you studying in college?

[Caller (various male callers)]

I'm doing business. Okay. The reason I made this call is because I think my whole portfolio of cards went down 20% in the past few weeks. So it got me, like, a little nervous to see what I should do in the situation.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, and that's why, like, if. Let's take cards off the table. Let's say you're a plumber. Being a plumber and owning a plumbing business is a great job. I would not buy plumbing tools for investing purposes. I wouldn't. I wouldn't buy a bunch of tools and put them in my closet and say, I want to sell these one day so I can pay for my medical care when I'm 70. And so when George says, this isn't a good retirement vehicle, that's exactly right, because it's too speculative. At the end of the day, I have to sell a card to somebody who will give me an exchange of value for this thing that, on its face, it's a piece of cardboard. It has no value in and of itself other than what you'll pay me for it. Versus is oil I can put into a million different products. Right.

[George Camel]

So this makes it even more risky than a single stock, because at least that's a company that's producing things, that's creating revenue that has shareholders involved. So that's a very different ball game than what you're talking about, which is more like to. To crypto than anything else. Now, it's physical, so there's a little more. You can actually see it, hang on to it. And people are like, you're saying there's entire conventions around this now. So I'm not saying that a year from now, it's going to go down to $0. What I am saying is, at 18, you got enough things to be anxious about. So if I'm you, I'm going to offload this, invest all of that money. And I just did the math for you. 600 grand. You just let it ride for 20 years, never add another dime, put it into an index fund. You could have $5 million sitting in there by 38 years old without ever losing sleep over it. And being as good as you are, could you not restart this game from scratch?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

If I gave you five grand and said, hey, go turn this into a Pokemon empire a year or two from now, could you have 100 grand?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Probably more.

[George Camel]

Take me up on the challenge.

[Caller (various male callers)]

And.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And here. Here's two things I want you to think through number one, I've got. I was an obsessive baseball card collector as a kid. I, I don't know where most of them are at this point, but I kept several because you know what the value of those cards are? I have no idea. They mean something to me. Right. I have memories attached to them. Nolan Ryan is one of my favorites. Like, so I've got some of those cards. So if you've got some of the cards in your personal collection that mean something to you, great. Keep those, man. That's awesome. And you, have you started this thing, did you start this thing when you were 10, 11, 12? You were started this speculative business in what may look back on history as one of the most extraordinary wealth runs of human history. And so the reason I'm telling you that is part of being a business owner is riding out tough seasons. And so there are months when my books sell great and there's months when my books don't sell great. That's part of being an author. And so I have to look at a long time horizon, especially when it comes to valuables and collectibles. They're going to go up and down over time and if gas prices go to $4 or $5 a gallon, then people are going to have less disposable income to buy cards with. Right. So it's part of that is because you're 18 and you're starting this business and now you're starting to be like, oh, I'm I' playing with grown up money. This is real money, dude. And I don't have the, I don't have the long term track record of being a business owner, of dealing with what happens when 20 of my clients say, hey, we have other expenses because there's a recession or there's, I got other expenses that just popped up. And so part of this is as a business owner is you got to be comfortable with the, the ups and downs, which is why retained earnings are important and keeping cash is important, all that. But like as a business business, you clearly know what you're doing. And there's car dealers and collectible dealers all over the planet. That's awesome. But yeah, I would not remember for a retirement.

[George Camel]

Collectibles, no matter what it is, cards, coins, sneakers, it can be fun, but it is not substitute for real investments.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Correct.

[George Camel]

Where there's, there's no cash flow, there's no diversification and that's leaving you exposed and you're starting to feel a little bit of that anxiety. And for that reason, keep it up As a hobby. Keep making money while you can, but I would not have so much stock in this.

[Announcer]

You should not feel uncertain about investing and you don't have to. That's why we created Investing Essentials, a two night virtual event where George Camel and I walk you through my playbook for investing and wealth planning. We'll simplify everything from 401ks and mutual funds to passing on wealth so you can invest with confidence. Tickets start at $199. Get yours today at ramseysolutions.com events or click the link in the show notes.

[George Camel]

Katie is in Idaho Falls. Up next, Katie, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Hi.

[Announcer]

Hey.

[George Camel]

How can John and I help?

[Caller (various female callers)]

So I'm kind of in this spot because my husband and I have been looking for about a year and a half to buy a home, but we've been renting for the last five years and our rent has went from when we started. When we first got married it was 1200 and now we're sitting at 1500 and they're expected to raise the rent to 1900. And so I already know based on our income that we can't afford 1,900amonth. And we've already cut like practically everything, you know, that we can cut. And so we found a mobile home for sale and they want 120,000 for it. And I just don't know if like that's a good idea or not because every house that we've looked into and investors either bought in it and right before we've gone into contract or, you know, we only got Pre approved for 200,000 and that kind of, we don't want to spend 200,000 because then we're shooting ourselves in the foot because you know, that means, you know, you're paying like, you know, 19 or 2 grand a month and we can't afford that.

[George Camel]

What do you guys make a month?

[Caller (various female callers)]

We make about roughly like 2,500.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What do you all do for a living?

[Caller (various female callers)]

We're in the tree industry.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Tell me about it.

[Caller (various female callers)]

So we do line clearing and my husband works a long, long hours and then I stay home and kind of take care of all the, all the things that need to be taken care of at home. Her like just like the finances and the home kind of stuff.

[George Camel]

So collectively both of you working in this business, you guys make about 30,000 a year and he's working 50, 60 hour weeks.

[Caller (various female callers)]

So he worked like he works the 410 schedule with overtime as well. So sometimes it's 50 hours and sometimes it's 48 hours a week. And then we do, like, a lot of side jobs because we've been trying really hard to get our business going, but we've been having a hard time because in Idaho, there is, like, so many tree companies, and so everybody all goes and bids out together. And so it makes it difficult.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Katie, let me say this, like, I want you to hear me say this stinks because your husband is a guy who's working his butt off. You're working your butt off, and y' all are really working hard towards a thing to build a thing, this business. And so I want you to hear me say that stinks because the story that you and I were told growing up is if you find the thing that you like to do and you find the thing that you're good at and you work really hard at it, the rest of your life will just work out.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yep.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so you and I got a bad story. Okay. And so hear me say, I, I, I want to applaud your husband's hustle. If he was here, I'd give him a hug, man. Because I, I love to hear young men who are out there crushing it and trying and working, not scared of hard work that will do anything, anytime time, working on weekends. I love that. And I love to hear a supportive spouse who's trying to co build this business with him. I love it. The reality I'll have in front of

[Caller (various female callers)]

you work seven days a week. Like, hold on.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The reality you'll have in front of you is you could both go get a job at Starbucks and y' all be making more money per year. And so the, the dream y' all have is a good dream. It's just not working out financially. You'll have a math problem. Problem. And so at some point, you'll have to decide. We're going to be folks who love this idea of this business. We like being with 500 other tree companies, all competing, all driving the cost of tree services down into the, into the basement. We love that. And we don't. There's really not a way for us to distinguish ourselves or, and we're. So that means we're gon. We love this enough, like, if you're a songwriter or you're a standup comic, we love this thing so much that we're willing to, to have this other life, which is we have to change apartments every six months because when the rent goes up, we can't afford it. We got to go somewhere else. Or y' all have to look in the mirror and say, we gave it our best shot. We are hard workers. Let's take our work ethic and our dreams and our desires and put them towards in another direction that's going to reward us more financially because y' all just, y' all have a math problem

[Caller (various male callers)]

in front of you.

[Caller (various female callers)]

So it's technically two incomes because he does this like, like Friday through Sunday, his own business and he works.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But those jobs aren't making y' all enough money.

[George Camel]

That's still 2500 bucks a month total between everything.

[Caller (various female callers)]

No, like, we have side stuff every now and then. Like we'll go into a job and it'll be like, like one job for two hours.

[George Camel]

But every now and then is not consistent income. So we can't count that. We need stable, consistent income. So the problem truly is not rent. Yes, it stinks that they're moving the rents. The problem is your income hasn't moved in five years and you guys are on the poverty level.

[Caller (various female callers)]

But our income has. We started, when we first started this job, we were making, we were making about $13 an hour and now we're at $21 an hour.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know, but you're not hearing what we're saying, Katie. Like when you see all the progress and how you've moved, that's awesome. You're still running into a math problem every month and inflation over the last five years.

[Caller (various female callers)]

But we're not, but we're not in debt. That's great.

[George Camel]

That's great.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But y' all are about to be not have a place to live because y' all can't afford $1,900 a month rent.

[George Camel]

And if you go buy a manufactured home, here's what happens. The loan payment stays the same while the value of that home starts tanking, which means you're probably underwater on this thing within six months trying to sell it to somebody who probably doesn't exist. You're going to, they're just going to go out and buy a new home if they want.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're going to have $120,000 payment on something worth $60,000 dollars.

[Caller (various female callers)]

My question is like, because we're, we keep looking at this mobile home. We've been looking at it for a while and then there was another house that had land with it. And we were really excited about it and it was only like it was 175,000. And when we went and we met with like the officer, like the lender, whatever you want to call it, he had said, oh, you get Pre approved for 200,000, but you don't have to use it all. And I was like, okay, Because I didn't really understand all that stuff. So when I asked him, I was like, so what? What's the better. You know what. What's the better thing you could do? And then looking into the mobile home, it was like, oh, well, that's only 10, 25, but you get a whole acre of land with it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm just telling you, please don't buy a mobile home.

[George Camel]

It would be like buying a truck with a payment of $1,000 a month, thinking it was a good idea.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And the truck will go down in value over time, and you're going to

[George Camel]

have a real hard time selling it. And you guys can't afford $150,000 home. How much do you have in savings?

[Caller (various female callers)]

I have about, like. So between all of our savings, we have about 17,000.

[George Camel]

Great. So we're gonna call that your emergency fund.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Well, I also have an Emergency fund of $3,000.

[George Camel]

3,000?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Okay. You guys need way more than that for your emergency fund. At least 10,000 minimum is your emergency fund. If you want to be on that, start saving for the down payment. That's great. But like you said in the beginning, hey, we're trying to cut. We can't cut any further. You're right. The other lever we need to start pulling now is making more, because you can't spend much less than you are. And that's where you guys need to reevaluate this business, Reevaluate the jobs, reevaluate where you live. Live. If there's not a lot keeping you here, can you move to an area that is cheaper to live with, a better job that is more stable?

[Dr. John Deloney]

And here's the reality. Your husband is one chainsaw swing away from hurting his back and being out for three months. Like, there's a. There's a risk reward to these. To these jobs, and y' all need a big emergency fund. He is one stepping off, sideways off the back of a. Of a log. A twist in his ankle, and he can't go up for three weeks. And y' all lose all that income like, so you're. It's a very precarious. And so I hope you hear me and George, this is serious. Y' all are in a precarious situation right here. So that 20 grand, that's your emergency fund. Never touch that. And now y' all are saving up.

[George Camel]

And even if you guys Both were making 20 an hour, 40 hours a week, that's over 80 grand a year. That's a huge Pay raise. If you guys can separate this business out and go, we're both going to go our separate ways and get our own job. Making over $20 an hour, that would change your life and give you the margin to start stacking cash to buy a traditional single family home versus a manufactured home. And that's the problem. A manufactured home rarely goes up in value. In fact, it doesn't. The land may go up in value, which makes you think this was a good deal, but you're still stuck underwater on this thing. So please, please, please, we're begging you not to do this. It is not the solution,

[Caller (various male callers)]

Sam.

[Announcer]

You work your butt off for your money, but your money's never going to return the favor if all you do is hope for the best. If you're ready to learn how to make your money work for you, check out the SmartVestor program. SmartVestor can help you find advisors who specialize in retirement planning, charitable giving, advanced investing strategies, and more. Whatever your goals, your pro will take the time to explain your options so you never have to invest in anything you don't understand. Head to ramseysolutions.com suretrend smartvestor to get connected.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Ramsey Solutions is a paid non client promoter of participating pros. Learn [e-mail] SmartVestor.

[George Camel]

Buying or selling your home is high stakes because one bad deal could cost you tens of thousands of dollars. You don't want to overpay for your next house or sell your current home for less than it's worth. And that's why Ramsey Trusted connects you with vetted real estate agents who have the experience to guide you step by step to make smart decisions, not expensive mistakes. Connecting is easy. Just compare agent profiles, interview your top choices and pick the right one for you. You can find a local Ramsey trusted agent for [e-mail] agent or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube, YouTube or podcast. Robin is in Fort Worth, Texas. Up next, Robin, welcome to the show.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Thank you. Hi John. Hi, George. Thank you for having me.

[George Camel]

Absolutely.

[Caller (various female callers)]

My husband is 55. His name is Steve. I'm 41. We just hit baby step seven last year. House paid off completely debt free. But right after life handed us one heck of a Murphy, Steve was diagnosed with early onset dementia.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh God. I'm so sorry. Sorry.

[Caller (various female callers)]

And because of our ages, we have a multi decade timeline to protect. And I need to know how to structure our wealth so that his care costs don't completely drain our retirement. Before I'm Ready to use it.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Wow.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I. There's a lot here. My initial answer is, I don't know if it. If that's possible.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's a.

[George Camel]

Sheesh.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's a mess. That's a mess. I'm so sorry. What's the state of your finances right now? Like, y' all hit baby step seven. What does that. What does that mean?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Practically, we are. We're like $24,000 away from being millionaires, thankfully.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But when I say, like, yeah, what does that mean? Do you have like a $700,000 house you're about to pay off, or do y' all have $600,000 in cash?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Right.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Well, I will say not all of it. I mean, it's not all liquid. Our house is like 250,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Okay. We've got retirement and stuff, and it's 630,000.

[George Camel]

Okay. And you're working full time?

[Caller (various female callers)]

I'm working full time.

[George Camel]

Okay. And is he still working?

[Caller (various female callers)]

He is not. He's on long term disability.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Okay. And did you guys have any long term disability insurance?

[Caller (various female callers)]

We did. So he's actually taking home 80% of his full pay.

[George Camel]

That's fantastic.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Excellent.

[George Camel]

You did a great job there. Was that through his employer that he had that set up?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Incredible. Okay, so how much is that?

[Caller (various female callers)]

So he's taking home 40. About 41,000 a year.

[George Camel]

Okay, great. So a little under four grand coming in there. And then how much are you bringing home?

[Caller (various female callers)]

I'm 102,000 a year. And those are. Those numbers are gross. They're not net.

[George Camel]

Okay, well, you guys have a great income and you're completely debt free, which sets you up to sort of create this slush fund for anything medical that comes up, especially while he's pre Medicare, because he's got 10 years until then.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So that's really what you're trying to figure out is what does care look like? There's a lot of questions we don't know of what, what this progression is going to look like, what the ongoing care is. So the best thing you can do do is just get as much facts as you can and then know, here's what could happen a month from now, a year from now, two years from now, and be socking away that money to kind of protect yourselves, to not use the emergency fund.

[Caller (various female callers)]

So we have been investing about $34,000 between the two of us in my Roth 401K and Ira and his spousal Roth Ira. Should we change our investment and just stack up money like a storm mode? Until we know, I mean, I don't know what the future holds. Nobody knows what the future holds.

[George Camel]

Well, the good news is we know that the long term disability income will be there.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And so the big question is, at what point would you have to step down or away from work in order to help care for him or what would that look like? I would at least have that conversation so that, you know, hey, two years from now there's a chance that he might need more intensive care. Am I going to do that or should I keep working and we get private care for him? That's the kind of math you're going to need to grapple with.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And dementia, the more that, I mean, it's being studied all over the world right now, but the more studies that come out, dementia is now not a singular thing. It's kind of like saying somebody's got cancer. And the next question is, well, what kind of mind? So have they given you any sort of prognosis based on the type of dementia he has, other than his early onset? It came much sooner than is, quote unquote, normal. Right. Do they give you any kind of prognosis for in two years, in three years and seven years, or is this quick? Do they give you any sort of prognosis here?

[Caller (various female callers)]

It's vascular. But because of his age, there's really no timeline.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Average timeline is five years, but that's estimating everybody in all ages.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. And that might be 80. If the vast majority of that pool sample is 80 or 90 year olds, they're going to have other complicating factors there. So, wow, what a mess. I, I, I like the idea, George. And tell me if I'm wrong. I like the idea. And we rarely, we don't usually say this on the show of splitting the difference of you continuing to invest because you, you're, you're 41, you, you, statistically speaking, you're not even halfway home yet.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so you've got to begin thinking about life after Steve. Life after you're able to, to make six figures and at the same time y' all are going to have acute expenses that are going to like predictably expand over time with extra care. Do you need to have a quarter time nurse living with you or coming in during the day? Is he going to go to a care facility? Like so there's going to be that reality where you're going to need additional cash more than you normally would. Right?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Do you know if his long term disability is taxable income or if it's tax free. It depends on how the premium was paid.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Tax free.

[George Camel]

Oh wonderful. Okay, so that's like net income, which definitely helps the numbers here. Do you currently have a financial advisor that you guys are working with?

[Caller (various female callers)]

No, not yet.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yet.

[George Camel]

Okay. I would definitely contact them cuz here's what they can do is map out all of the variables that you guys have. Here are the Social Security survivor benefits that you will have additional to any retirement that you have. All of these things will give you a clear picture. Here's all the insurance options we have to help with his care. And once you map all of that out, I think you guys will sleep better at night. Knowing that there is less variable than there were before. That's the most you can do. You guys have done such a great job preparing for a storm because you're completely debt free with a solid income and you had the right insurances in place. So I want to let you know you are doing so much better than most people in your situation because of the hard work you both did.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And Robin, can I recommend how recent is this diagnosis?

[Caller (various female callers)]

It's just a little over a year. I mean the diagnosis is this month, but he's. It's. It's been a year.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Caller (various female callers)]

We've been waiting for a year for it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I would recommend you getting with a group in your local community there in Fort Worth. They're in the Dallas area where you can go once a week, once every two weeks and sit with a group of spouses who are going through the same thing. You're going to need people who speak your same language and y' all can just look at each other and know you know what I mean. But one of the. Beyond the finances, what I want you to do is to. This is going to sound nutty, but you can only provide care for him with what you have. And so it's going to sound counterintuitive, but I want you to be in service to yourself first so that you can be of service to him and to what comes next. Meaning I want you to have a group of people that you can talk to. I want you to be serious about your physical health and your emotional health and your relationships so that at he can anchor into you in this upcoming season, whether it's two years, whether it's five years or beyond. Because it's going to. It's going to be a journey. And if you don't have any water left in your pitcher, you're going to have no way to fill his glass up. Do you get what I'm saying I do. Yeah. Blessings to you, man. I. I hate this. Hate this for you. I hate this for him. Hate this for your whole family.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Thank you so much, both of you. I appreciate your guidance.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Check out a smartvestor pro there in the DFW area. I know there's quite a few of them and they'll sit down with you and with the heart of a teacher, they'll walk you through. And you're gonna have to become a scholar in this stuff because you're going to be doing it on your own. And by the way, if you haven't moved all the accounts in your name, if you don't have power of attorney, medical power of attorney, financial power of attorney, all those things, you're going to be a sole decision maker on a lot of this, on all of this moving forward. So getting some people in your corner that can give you good wisdom and counsel is going to be really important for you.

[Announcer]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

But definitely answer your question. I would keep investing your 15%. Anything beyond that starts to go into this sort of care fund and probably a high yield savings account for now and just stack it up and stack it up and stack it up so that we don't burn the emergency fund or our nest egg along the way. But we're, we're hoping for the best for you guys.

[Announcer]

Dave Ramsey here. For more than 30 years, I've been talking to folks on the air and I can tell you that most people are broke not because they don't make enough money, but because they don't have a plan. You need to give every dollar you earn a job because when you do that, something changes. You stop guessing, you stop worrying, you stop stressing. Our every dollar budgeting app will show you how to find extra cash, pay off debt, and finally start winning with money. But most people won't do it. They'll keep living paycheck to paycheck, keep hoping things will change without making a change change. It's time to say enough is enough. It's time to take control of your money. It's time to start your every dollar budget for free today. Go download it in the app store or Google play.

[George Camel]

Our scripture of the day. Exodus 20, verses 8 and 9. Six days you shall labor and do all your work. But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. Serena Williams said, don't let anyone work harder than you. Do you hear that, John? You've already failed. I've been carrying the load today.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Carrying it, man.

[George Camel]

All right. Manny is in Chicago up next. What's going on? What's going on, Manny?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. I'll try to give a quick summary before I ask the question. I will note that my plumber did give me an update earlier today, so maybe your answer will change. I'm 27. I just recently bought a home. I do have three young kids and a stay at home wife. And I'm expecting my fourth child within the next two weeks, give or take some time. And since I got into the home, I did have a savings account that dwindled down a little bit just from some small repairs like a H VAC system that needed to be repaired for 3,000 and then small things around the house within the last month. My sewage drain I think has a crack in it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh no.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Caused my entire home to smell like sewage and now I have like drain flies. Yeah, pretty much throughout my home.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So what's your plumber?

[Caller (various male callers)]

So one, I had two different plumbers come just to get two different opinions and quotes. One of them said it is a drain pipe that does have a crack. The house that I got was a remodel. Everything was pretty much new, including most of the above ground plumbing. But the sewage stuff was all the original pipe work. And he said he needed to get a camera scope in there and he did see where it was and it was under parts of the foundation. Under the ground.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Are you on a slab?

[Caller (various female callers)]

Yeah.

[Caller (various male callers)]

So where the pipe is cracked, it's part of a slab.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Or it might be right next to it or underneath it. But the main thing is that because I'm having like drain flies and all these, these small issues that come along with this. I do have a previous employer's 401k. That's about 23 grand grand I'm in. Baby step two, my only debt is my, my wife's van. It's about 14,000. My actual savings is about 2,500. And I have $2,000 for a sinking fund for my personal car that may go God knows when. And then $1,000 emergency fund. The only other option that I would have to fund it if I don't use the 401k would try to be to finance it or, or use money from my in laws and I'd pay them back with little to no interest. But I just wanted to get your guys's opinion because I know it's shunned upon to take from your 401k even though I'm not putting anything in there now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Let me ask you a few Questions about the work, the did he did. Anytime I've ever had plumbing snaked, they show me the pictures. Have you seen the cracks?

[Caller (male, occasional)]

Not yet.

[Caller (various male callers)]

I'm gonna have the second plumber. So that's what the first one told me. The second plumber is gonna. The main issue is that what they told me today when I was cutting my grass yesterday, I did see a puddle of water on one of the corners of my house. And my in law, my father in law came and he helped dig up some of that corner to kind of see what it was. And it ended up being like. Like pretty much poop and stuff. Stuff backing up and flowing up. So as far as, like, the urgency goes, I do want to try to get it done just because I'm gonna have a newborn.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, of course, dude. You got two guys with kids. We get it.

[George Camel]

And you got storm on storm on storm right now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Well, here's what I want you to think through. If they. If they come out and they say, yeah, it's cracked. And we have to dig up your entire yard, from the street to your foundation and completely redo this whole thing.

[Caller (various female callers)]

Thing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's all cast iron. It's old or old. It's rotted through its iron. It's useless. There could be. We can drill a hole in it and pump it completely pump it out for 600 bucks. And that will get you two months or three months. And then we'll come out here and pump it again and I'll get you three more months. And so the temptation is. And I totally get it, dude. Both George and I, like, we both get it, is I want to just do all this right now. I need to get it all fixed right this second. Whatever. But I always want you to remember, generally in these kind of situations, unless your house is falling over, there's. There's step one, the perfect option. There's step two, there's step three, there's step four.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so what do I have to do to limp along while I'm still gathering and saving money so I can do this whole thing? Right.

[George Camel]

So it's basically what. What gets us by versus what gets it completely fixed, right?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yeah. So since I'm not on a septic tank, I'm on my city line, I'm in, like, the suburbs of Chicago.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sure.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Based on what they find when it's dug up. Well, how would you guys go about it then as far as.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, I mean, there's gonna be multiple stages. If two guys come and give you the same. The same issue if they both snake it and they're both like, yeah, brother, your, your pipe all the way to the street is screwed, screwed up. I'm going to want to call the city and see if they have any investment in this thing too. Is part of this line theirs? I'm also going to then, because then you start phase two, which is, all right, how much is it going to cost for you to fix it? How much it's going to cost for you to fix it? And I'm going to call four other companies out here to see what they would charge. And I'm going to be. I'm going to do my due diligence to see how, how I can get this thing, not the cheapest, but how I can get it done with the most reputable company done the right way for the best price.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Okay. Because they did. The plumber that saw the issue today did say not to use like any of the washers, dryer, shower or anything just because of the fact that poop was coming up from that little corner and the drain was busted. Yeah. I'm just waiting to get an actual visual on the pipe.

[George Camel]

And is there somewhere you guys can go temporarily?

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yeah. So my in laws extended their hand for us to stay there for a couple of days.

[George Camel]

I would definitely do that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'd call the city too, and have them, a city sewage inspector come out and look at it and see. Because if it may be backed all the way down the middle of your street for half a block, city's got work to do. Yeah.

[George Camel]

And I would also contact your homeowners insurance. Have you done that?

[Caller (various male callers)]

No, I did. I do have a warranty, but they won't cover it, so I didn't think

[Dr. John Deloney]

to contact the new home that you just bought. Why won't the warranty cover that?

[Caller (various male callers)]

The company said they don't cover any type of like, sewage plumbing, only like above ground, which didn't make any sense to me.

[George Camel]

Here's your homework. Go find every piece of documentation for that warranty, go pull up your declarations for your homeowners insurance, upload it to AI and see if there's a way that this can be covered. Because your insurance company might say, no, we don't it cover, cover that you might find that you appeal it and go, nope, they're going to cover it now and they might then cover your displacement to go rent a home somewhere while it gets fixed. And so I don't want you to feel like there's only one option right now. I'm going to fight this Thing to offload it as much as I can.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's a part time job. And if you think of a part time job that you might earn $10,000, you'd probably take that part time job. This is the same thing. You may save yourself ten grand. What did that first plumber corn quote you to dig up the whole line from, from your house to the street?

[Caller (various male callers)]

He said depending. Well, the line is under like six feet of dirt and it's in a crawl space under my basement or under my home in my basement. He said it could be at 6,000 to 10,000, just depending on how much line is cracked and how far down he has to dig.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. So. So if you think about it, give yourself that exercise too. What, what does life look like? The what? The numbers you just gave me for your car fund for this. You've got six grand in your pocket right now.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Between your sinking fund, your savings and that car repair fund, you got, you know, a good 5,500. So within a month you could have six grand and so you might not be in as bad shape as you think. What's the, the car loan is 14 grand. What is that van worth?

[Caller (various male callers)]

It's probably worth about the same. About 1415.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller (various male callers)]

It's a 2018 Honda OT and you

[Dr. John Deloney]

got, you got four kids, so you need a van. Yeah, I get that.

[George Camel]

But I was wondering if it's worth 30k and you guys can downgrade in van for now, that, that could solve some problems too. But I definitely would not touch that retirement account. I know it's tempting because it feels like old money in your old coat pocket, but man, that's like taking a loan at 35% interest with the penalties and taxes you're going to pay on that money. So it is not worth it. And if you just leave that money alone to grow for the next 30 years, it's really a six figure mistake you're making.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. So can I talk to you? Just, just dad to dad, real quick, Husband to husband.

[Caller (various male callers)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I promise you this will pass. And it feels like it's all happening. You're having a new kid on the way. You got in laws like saying you can come live with us. You've got a car that might die. It all feels like it's happening. Let's laser beam on the plumbing issue and get this thing cleaned up and let's celebrate this new kid coming and let's do everything we can to scratch and claw and pay for cash on this deal.

[George Camel]

And worst, worst, worst case if the in laws. Want to be generous and help you guys cover this for now, Go for it. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.