100% Chance You Don't Need A Degree For This

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show Highlights – "100% Chance You Don't Need A Degree For This"

Episode Overview

In the June 27, 2025 episode of The Ramsey Show Highlights titled “100% Chance You Don't Need A Degree For This,” hosts Dave Ramsey and John delve into the topic of higher education versus skill acquisition, particularly focusing on construction management. The episode features a listener, Andrew, who is contemplating taking out $75,000 in student loans to pursue a bachelor’s degree in construction management as a DACA recipient. The discussion emphasizes the value of practical skills over formal degrees and explores the evolving landscape of education and employment.

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Caller’s Dilemma: Education vs. Debt

Andrew’s Situation

Andrew reaches out to seek advice on financing his education. As a DACA recipient, he faces significant barriers to scholarships and federal assistance, prompting him to consider a substantial loan to obtain a bachelor’s degree in construction management.

• Andrew (00:06): “I’d like to take out $75,000 in student loan to get a bachelor's in construction management... I am a DACA recipient, I am not qualified for a majority of scholarships that are out there or any kind of federal assistance.”

Initial Reactions

John immediately voices strong opposition to Andrew’s plan, urging him not to incur such debt without considering alternative pathways.

• John (00:27): “Please don't do this, Andrew. Please, please, please don't do this.”

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Understanding DACA and Its Implications

Clarifying DACA Status

Dave Ramsey seeks clarification on Andrew’s DACA status to better understand his situation.

• Dave Ramsey (00:32): “Help me, John. What are. What's a DACA?”
• John (00:36): “It's a long story, but he is not a naturalized citizen... he can go to college, go to US College, but doesn't qualify for a lot of the aid packages that are reserved for citizens only.”

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Exploring Educational Paths in Construction

Andrew’s Educational Plan

Andrew details his plan to enroll in a trade school for an electrician degree, which would later transition into a bachelor’s in construction management.

• Andrew (01:02): “I basically do an electrician degree. And then that turns into a bachelor's in construction management.”

John’s Advice on Skill Acquisition

John recommends focusing on vocational training and acquiring skills directly relevant to the construction industry rather than accumulating debt for a degree.

• John (01:05): “I want you to go learn how to be an electrician... because you're going to be one of the most in demand people in the next 5 to 10 to 25 to 50 years.”

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Dave Ramsey Endorses Skill Over Degree

Advantages of Practical Experience

Dave Ramsey supports the idea that a formal degree is unnecessary for a successful career in construction management. He emphasizes learning on the job and acquiring practical skills.

• Dave Ramsey (02:25): “100% of the time. You do not need a degree to be in Construction Management 100% chance. What you do need is the skills to be there.”

Pathway to Success

Ramsey outlines a clear pathway for Andrew: start as an electrician, enter an apprenticeship program, and gradually transition into construction management through hands-on experience.

• Dave Ramsey (02:58): “Get in an apprentice program, become an electrician, and then move from there and start working with the GCs in the area and take on some project manager roles on some small basic stuff and let them teach you construction management.”

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The Future of Education and Certifications

John’s Insight on Certifications

John discusses the shifting landscape where skills are becoming more valuable than traditional certifications. He argues that real-world abilities will outpace formal credentials in the job market.

• John (05:27): “In the future that we are entering into right now, people are going to ask, can you do this thing? So don't go get certified in how to sit with hurting people. Go figure out ways to sit with hurting people.”

Dave’s Perspective on the Trades and Technology

Dave highlights the resilience of trade professions against automation and the increasing importance of technical skills over degrees in fields like information technology.

• Dave Ramsey (06:05): “The trades have never done that. Number two, the new version of the trade called tech... the number of them have lots of certs and have gone to classes and know how to code, gone to code school. They learned the skills, they have to.”

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Real-World Examples and Personal Experiences

Practical Applications

Dave shares anecdotal evidence from his own experience in the real estate and construction industries, illustrating that success does not strictly require formal degrees.

• Dave Ramsey (04:34): “I'm sitting in a building that costs $60 million to build... the guy that built this building working for a commercial construction company did not have a construction management degree.”

Influence of Practitioner-Educators

John reflects on the positive impact of educators who actively engage in their professions, suggesting that hands-on experience enhances teaching effectiveness and student engagement.

• John (07:11): “The most of the teachers that I had that were of high influence for me professors were either theologians or that also led small churches at the same time... because they got to tie the practice into that knowledge and then you get a much better.”

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Concluding Thoughts: Emphasizing Skills and Practical Knowledge

The Value of Applied Knowledge

Both Ramsey and John converge on the notion that acquiring and applying practical skills is paramount. They caution against the allure of certifications and degrees as quick fixes for career advancement.

• Dave Ramsey (09:01): “What the silver bullet is your gathering of knowledge and the application of it in the marketplace, not the piece of paper that said you did it.”
• John (09:01): “Chase skills.”

Final Advice to Andrew and Listeners

Ramsey concludes by encouraging listeners to prioritize skill development and practical experience over accumulating educational debt, reinforcing the episode’s central message.

• Dave Ramsey (09:02): “If all you do is collect degrees, you're a thermometer. Create your free every dollar budget today. The simplest way to budget for your life.”

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Key Takeaways

1. Emphasize Skill Acquisition: Practical skills and hands-on experience are often more valuable than formal degrees, especially in fields like construction management.
2. Avoid Unnecessary Debt: Accumulating significant student debt can be detrimental, particularly when alternative, cost-effective educational pathways are available.
3. Certification vs. Competence: Real-world abilities and the capacity to perform tasks effectively outweigh the importance of formal certifications or degrees.
4. Future Employment Trends: The job market is increasingly valuing skills over traditional educational credentials, making skill development a crucial investment.
5. Learning on the Job: Entering the workforce directly and learning through experience can lead to career advancement without the financial burden of higher education.

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Notable Quotes

• John (00:27): “Please don't do this, Andrew. Please, please, please don't do this.”
• Dave Ramsey (02:25): “100% of the time. You do not need a degree to be in Construction Management 100% chance.”
• John (05:27): “Don’t go get certified in how to sit with hurting people. Go figure out ways to sit with hurting people.”
• Dave Ramsey (06:05): “The trades have never done that... they learned the skills, they have to.”
• Dave Ramsey (09:01): “What the silver bullet is your gathering of knowledge and the application of it in the marketplace, not the piece of paper that said you did it.”

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This episode of The Ramsey Show Highlights underscores the importance of practical skills and real-world experience over formal education and certifications. Dave Ramsey and John advocate for a hands-on approach to career development, particularly in the construction industry, while cautioning against the financial pitfalls of taking on substantial student debt. The discussion provides valuable insights for listeners contemplating their educational and professional paths, emphasizing that success is achievable through skill mastery and practical application.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Andrew]

So I was wondering what you thought. I'd like to take out $75,000 in student loan to get a bachelor's in construction management. But there's one caveat, which is that because I am a DACA recipient, I am not qualified for a majority of scholarships that are out there or any kind of federal assistance.

[John]

Please don't do this, Andrew. Please, please, please don't do this.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry. Help me, John. What are. What's a daca?

[John]

It's a long story, but he is not a naturalized citizen. But he's lived here his whole life, and so he's a recipient. He can go to college, go to US College, but doesn't qualify for a lot of the aid packages that are reserved for citizens only.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotcha. Okay, now I'm catching.

[John]

And so you want to go into construction management.

[Andrew]

Yeah. So there's a trade school here locally that also has an online college.

[John]

Okay.

[Andrew]

I basically do an electrician degree.

[John]

Yep.

[Andrew]

And then that turns into a bachelor's in construction management.

[John]

Okay. So hear me say this. I want you to go learn how to be an electrician and I want you to learn construction science. I desperately want that. Because you're going to be one of the most in demand people in the next 5 to 10 to 25 to 50 years. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a wonderful career field.

[John]

I do not want you to get $75,000 in the hole. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you do now?

[Andrew]

Currently I'm a graphic designer for a sign company.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so what made you pick construction?

[Andrew]

So, I mean, I'm 29 and for the longest time I didn't know what I wanted to do. And then I went on a tour of this trade school and the courses that they have available and it just clicked like, it just. It seems like something that it's with my hands, but it requires math and, you know, technical skill, which is something that I gravitate towards.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Andrew]

And obviously because I have a son and a wife, it's got to make money too.

[John]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep.

[John]

Have you gone down and check out the local community college in your area that probably offers the exact same program for nothing.

[Andrew]

There's a JC in my area that. That gives me the certificate for electrician, but I'd have to go to further out like a two hour city to do it, to make it into anything. That's higher education.

[Dave Ramsey]

100% of the time. You do not need a degree to be in Construction Management 100% chance. What you do need is the skills to be there. One way to get the skills is to go study it the way you're talking about studying it. Another way is be doing it on the job and learn. That's how most people in construction learn construction management. They do construction, not graphic arts. So go get a job in the construction field, dude.

[Andrew]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

Work your way. Get it. Get in with an electrician. That'll put you in apprentice program.

[John]

Get your free certification there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get to get in an apprentice program, become an electrician, and then move from there and start working with the GCs in the area and take on some project manager roles on some small basic stuff and let them teach you construction management. Construction management is not rocket science, okay? It's logistics and math. What you found when you were doing that, what you ran into was a trade school that had a really good.

[John]

Salesman and a shiny, shiny shop.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it made it look like this was gonna be a thing. But listen, it's project management. And just in talking to you, I think you could do it almost. Now you're bright, okay? You're a smart guy. Except for this part about biting on the $75,000 hook. I think you got a little lip. Little thing stuck in your lip right there. It's a hook. And so. But yeah, but no, dude, really, go. Go get in the construction business. I grew up in the real estate and construction business. I love it. And I think it's something that AI can't touch. So you're not going to get replaced by a stupid computer.

[John]

And I chat.

[Dave Ramsey]

GTPT can't spell construction management.

[John]

Well, it can. I promise you, in 10 years, they're not going to say, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I know you can wire up this entire project, but we need to see that certification. No one's going to have time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you can get. You can run through an apprentice program and become a certified electrician, but you do not need a construction management degree. I'm sitting in a building that costs $60 million to build. This portion of this building goes $60 million. The guy that built this building working for a commercial construction company did not have a construction management degree.

[Andrew]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what I'm saying, okay? What he did was he swung a hammer and he dug ditches and he wired stuff and he did whatever and he learned project management. And you can take some project management courses. And there's some basic things to learn about that that everybody ought to know for that matter, because everything's a freaking project. Running a wedding is a Project management thing. So I mean, whatever it is, right. So you know, there's nothing, nothing bad about that. But you pick that up at the community college. Don't be hunting certifications as a silver bullet to make your life successful. Go look for skills, skills that you can put literally in this case and figuratively in your tool belt.

[John]

Can we, can I want to double click on that because I think that might be one of the more, more profound shifts that's coming our way. And that is we have been told for a hundred years to go get certified, go have somebody else stamp you. Whether it's an outside credential, whether it's an outside in colleges have responded to this by coming up with credentials on any number of things that have never been credentialed. Left handed puppetry, everything is credentialed, right? Right. So I'm a certified, left handed puppet, whatever. So here's the deal. In the future that we are entering into right now, people are going to ask, can you do this thing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep.

[John]

So don't go get certified in how to sit with hurting people. Go figure out ways to sit with hurting people. Don't get certified in how to fill in the blank. Go learn how to do that thing. Because that's going to be the new currency. Because their certification stuff is going to get winnowed out with the, the Internets, with the computers. I'm convinced of that Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean we've already seen, we've already seen the beginning. Number one, the trades have never done that.

[John]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Number two, the new version of the trade called tech. You know, I got tech, we got 460 tech people working here. The number of them that have four year degrees in information systems is almost zero.

[John]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

But number of them have lots of certs and have gone to classes and know how to code, gone to code school. They learned the skills, they have to.

[John]

Learn the skills, they learn the skills.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I don't care what their certification is.

[John]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

What I care is can you code correct? Can you build the platform for the code to sit on? Can you create a customer interface? How fast can you do this at a dev1, dev2 or dev3 level? You know, are you, are you really quick? Are you just slower in Christmas? I mean what, what is this is what? I, I'm the employer, I'm the guy writing the check. And so I'm telling you, you don't have to have a cert.

[John]

I have a degree in salesmanship. Oh, I don't care. Can you sell?

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh crap.

[John]

That's what's going to matter.

[Dave Ramsey]

The only thing that means is you got sold. Doesn't mean you ever sold anything. So yeah, that's the chase. The essence of this Andrew Chase skills. And this is coming from John, who has a PhD in higher education.

[John]

And I used to tell like, don't get a PhD in leadership. Go lead something. Go ask for increased leadership responsibility so that you can get moved up the ladder in these areas and increase your influence because you know how to do the thing, not because you can wave a certificate around, say, look, somebody else says I can do this thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I had a fun discussion with Jim Collins at Entree Leadership Summit last week. We were talking maybe on stage in the interview, but certainly offstage we talked about it too. I remember he told me the story. He was teaching entrepreneurship at Stanford and a guy kept saying, yeah, but are you.

[John]

That's a great critique. It's a great critique.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's what caused him to leave and go open his own for practice for profit research firm. That that led to the book Built to Last. Good to Great, Great by choice. How the Mighty Fall. All these masterful works that are based on his masterful research that he did for profit because he decided if I'm going to teach entrepreneurship, I probably ought to be one.

[John]

I. I find it no small coincidence that the most of the teachers that I had that were of high influence for me professors were either theologians or that also led small churches at the same time, or they were mental health professors that also had practices or working in the communities doing. Doing the thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[John]

Because they got to tie the practice into that knowledge and then you get a much better. The passion jumps into the students. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who was it taught me to go into debt? My finance professor who was broke. He was broke. What's wrong with a broke finance professor? That's like a shop teacher with missing fingers. I mean, come on.

[John]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You ain't one, right. You ain't one until you is one. Right. Oh my gosh. This is how this works. So yeah.

[John]

Chase skills.

[Dave Ramsey]

I believe in education, being dumb is not a plan.

[John]

I believe in going to college.

[Dave Ramsey]

I believe gathering up knowledge. But the silver bullet is your gathering of knowledge and the application of it in the marketplace, not the piece of paper that said you did it. If all you do is collect degrees, you're a thermometer. Create your free every dollar budget today. The simplest way to budget for your life.