$120,000 For A Ministry Degree?

Summary

Podcast Summary: $120,000 For A Ministry Degree?

Podcast: The Ramsey Show Highlights
Host: Dave Ramsey (with Rachel Cruze)
Date: November 12, 2025
Episode Length: Under 10 minutes

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Dave Ramsey and Rachel Cruze take a call from Emma, an 18-year-old high school senior, who has been accepted to her dream university—a private Christian college with steep tuition. Emma is facing a dilemma: how to tell her parents about her acceptance in light of the $120,000 cost (after scholarships) and their unwillingness or inability to financially support her education. The hosts guide Emma through tough questions about the financial feasibility of her aspirations, highlighting the practicality of pursuing dreams without being burdened by unmanageable debt.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Emma’s Background and Dilemma (00:06–01:40)

• Emma is the oldest of six children, with working-class parents and no savings for college.
• Her dream school is University of Northwestern St. Paul, a private Christian university with tuition of $38,000/year.
• Emma shares: “I got into my dream college. And I don't know how to tell my parents.” (00:06)

2. Financial Realities and Family Situation (01:41–03:39)

• Emma’s parents can’t help financially and don’t want her to take on student debt.
• She reveals she helps pay for household expenses and believes some of her contributions might be saved for her, but isn’t sure.
  • Dave and Rachel see the importance of clarifying how much (if any) has been saved.

Notable Quote:

• Rachel Cruze: “Asking an 18 year old to help provide for the family, that's tough for me... I would hope that they just took the money and put it in a savings account. But I would ask them tonight...” (03:40)

3. Examining the Actual College Cost and Savings (02:00–03:39)

• Emma received a partial scholarship ($44,000 over four years), leaving a $105,000 gap for tuition alone—not counting room and board.
• She has little to no direct savings in hand.

Notable Exchange:

• Dave Ramsey: “So you're down to, like, you'll owe 120 [thousand] or something. What's the number?”
  Emma: “It's $11,000 a year for all four years. So I'm down to, like, $105,000.” (02:07–02:20)

4. The Real Cost of a Dream and Long-Term Debt (03:40–05:37)

• Rachel makes the point that living within one's means is a “sign of maturity,” often missing even in adults.
• The hosts urge Emma to recognize that most employers don’t prioritize the college’s name—what matters is the degree/experience, not the “dream school.”
• Taking on massive debt for a private education isn’t justifiable for most career paths.

Notable Quote:

• Rachel Cruze: “People don't care, and they don't... the name of the school... It is not usually a sign that you're going to be successful and get a job that's going to then carry you for, throughout your adulthood. And going $120,000 or 105,000, I think it's a little bit, I think it's Gonna end up being a little bit more than that after room and board and book everything.” (04:37–05:37)

5. Career Prospects and the Value of the Degree (05:37–07:13)

• Emma plans to double major in Pastoral Ministry and Communications, hoping to be a summer camp director.
• The hosts explain these careers pay modestly—certainly not enough to handle $100k+ in debt.

Memorable Exchange:

• Rachel Cruze: “We just talked to a worship pastor who's making $53-$58,000 a year... It would take you, like, seven to eight years to pay this off. No, no, please, please, please, no.” (05:48–05:56)

• Dave Ramsey: “I don't think you need a communications degree or even a pastoral studies degree to be a summer camp director. You know what? You need experience at a summer camp.” (06:04–06:31)

• Dave warns: “You can never be a summer camp director because there is no summer camp director job that pays enough to cover the payments on the student loans that you end up taking out.” (06:31–06:54)

6. Alternatives and Parental Wisdom (07:13–08:17)

• Both hosts encourage Emma to listen to her parents’ advice and look for other affordable college options (community college, transferring later, etc.).

• Rachel brings a faith-based perspective, referencing biblical wisdom about debt.

  • “Every time debt is mentioned, it's in a negative fashion... You're a slave to the lender.”

• Practical tip: Before making any decisions, Emma should clarify how much has been saved in her name by her parents.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dave Ramsey (on dream schools and experience):
  “Would it be a great time going to the school? I think so. But is it worth 120 grand for the price to have this experience? I don't think it is at this point.” (07:13)

• Rachel Cruze (on biblical wisdom):
  “Every time debt is mentioned, it is negative. It's a curse. It's you are a slave to the lender. It is not wise. Go read proverbs.” (07:46)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:06: Emma introduces her dilemma—accepted to dream school, worried about cost and parents’ reaction.
• 01:23–01:40: Discussion about why her parents oppose her dream school.
• 02:00–02:20: Emma discloses the partial scholarship and remaining cost.
• 03:40–04:37: Rachel on the “sign of maturity” and experience of adult callers.
• 05:37–06:31: Career prospects for ministry/communications majors and the practical path to becoming a summer camp director.
• 07:13–08:17: Final advice—don’t go into debt, seek parental insight, and biblical perspective on debt.

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Tone & Closing Thoughts

Dave and Rachel maintain their trademark blend of compassion and tough love, urging Emma to be realistic and pragmatic. They emphasize wise decision-making, financial maturity, and long-term impact over the emotional pull of a “dream school.” Faith and practicality inform their perspective, making this episode both empathetic and challenging for listeners facing similar decisions.

Key Takeaway:
Don’t trade financial freedom for the prestige of a dream school—especially when other, more affordable paths can lead to the same destination. Listen to your parents, seek clarity about what’s saved, and enter adulthood with wisdom and open eyes.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Emma]

I am a senior in high school. I'm freshly 18 years old, and I got into my dream college. And I don't know how to tell my parents.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. I thought there was going to be something bad that happened, but this is good. So give us the context of why this is bad news for your parents.

[Emma]

So my dream school, probably for my whole life, has been University of Northwestern St. Paul, whole lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

Since you were zero years old, you're like, this is on my. My dream Pinterest board.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is that. That's a. Is that a private school?

[Emma]

Yes, it's private and Christian.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep. How much is that tuition?

[Emma]

It's about 38, 000 a year.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Okay. So what have you and your parents talked about when it comes to college?

[Emma]

So I've known for a very long time that my parents were not gonna help us, were not gonna help me with college. I'm the oldest of six kids, and we live on just my dad's income.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Emma]

And so they don't want me to go there because they don't want me to go into student loan debt, which I understand.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, 100%.

[Emma]

But I haven't.

[Rachel Cruze]

I think you have probably 99% of people listening to this saying. Yep. We agree with your parents. We. We are. And so you've not told them because you're gonna go. And you're gonna go take on essentially, over four years, $160,000.

[Emma]

What I haven't told them is.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Emma]

What I haven't told them is that I got a partial ride scholarship.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, well, that's great. Okay, so how much does that cover?

[Emma]

It covers about $44,000 over all four years.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're down to, like, you'll owe 120 or something. What's the number?

[Emma]

It's $11,000 a year for all four years. So I'm down to, like, $105,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how much do you have saved?

[Emma]

I actually do not have a savings account. I have been helping my parents with the bills and stuff I work for.

[Dave Ramsey]

So they're struggling financially.

[Emma]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, wow. And you're working part time and that money that you're working for is going to the household?

[Emma]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Was this a something you're doing out of kindness or was it like a, hey, if you're going to live under a roof, you got to help around because times are tough?

[Emma]

No, it's kindness.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

And they're. And they're. And they're they're taking your money?

[Emma]

Yes and no. They. So I contribute, I help pay for groceries and stuff. And I am aware that some of the money that I'm paying them, they're putting in a savings account for me. I just don't know how much that is.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we can get some clarity on that. We got to know if it's $1,000 or $10,000.

[Emma]

I think if my math is right, it should be around 8,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what if it's zero? What if they spent it all?

[Emma]

I don't know.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, well, I hate to say it. I mean, I know there's, you know, people are in different circumstances financially, but asking an 18 year old to help provide for the family, that's tough for me. So I would, I would hope that they just took the money and put it in a savings account. But I would ask them tonight because it is October. And if you're a senior in high school, you know, you're starting to get early admission. I mean it's what you're doing. You're getting college, you've sent out college applications, you're getting the letters in, you're figuring out your next steps and you do that around this time. And so for you, Emma, to know, going into the next nine months of what you have to work with and staying within that. So I want to be really kind because I really appreciate the dream school. I know that you've thought about it and all of it, but there is a sign of maturity, Emma, that when you choose to live within your means, you don't get to do everything you want. And that's a true sign of an adult. And we talk to people on the show that are 45 that don't even grasp that. And so I would implore you that your friends Rachel and George can tell you in the real world, when you go out to get a job, when majority of people don't care what's on your diploma, they really don't. Some, some care that you have a four year degree. I mean that's a, I think a great thing to have, you know, So I, I think that's great. But people don't care and they don't, you know, the, the name of the school and all of that. It is a, it is not usually a sign that you're going to be successful and get a job that's going to then carry you for, throughout your adulthood and going $120,000 or 105,000. I think it's a little bit, I think it's Gonna end up being a little bit more than that after room and board and book everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you studying?

[Emma]

I was planning on double majoring in pastoral ministry and communications.

[Dave Ramsey]

Emma.

[Rachel Cruze]

Emma, we just talked to a worship pastor who's making 53, $58,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he's been doing it a long time.

[Rachel Cruze]

It would take you.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's a successful worship leader.

[Rachel Cruze]

It would take you like, seven to eight years to pay this off. No, no, please, please, please, no.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you want to do on the other side of this? Tell me the job. Like, if I could just do this job, it would be a dream summer camp director. Okay. I love the clarity there. Here's the good news. I don't think you need a communication degree or even a pastoral studies degree to be a summer camp director. You know what? You need experience at a summer camp where you work your way into a.

[Rachel Cruze]

Direct role that you can do for free.

[Dave Ramsey]

So this is actually great news. This gives me so much hope for you that we can avoid a crisis, because here's what. Let me play this out and you can go watch the Borrowed Future documentary we did on the student loan crisis. I think it'll help you understand some of what we're talking about. My fear for you is that you can never be a summer camp director because there is no summer camp director job that pays enough to cover the payments on the student loans that you end up taking out.

[Rachel Cruze]

So you're going to have to go get a job. You're going to have to end up being, you know, an administrative assistant or something. I mean, which is not bad. But you're not going to get to do what you want to do in life because you're going to have bills to pay for years, for years and years and years and years for a Christian private education that you didn't need. You don't. You don't need it now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Would it be a great time going to the school? I think so. But is it worth 120 grand for the price to have this experience? I don't think it is at this point. Now, if you had a full ride and you were like, I just want to do this for fun, I'd go, good for you. Go for it. But I just. I got into my dream school, Emma, when I was 18, and it was 50 grand a year for four years going to a film school. And I said, I. I don't think I can stomach 200 grand in student loan debt to maybe be a film director one day. And I think that was the Lord saying, please don't do this, young man. Yeah, your future is going to be.

[Rachel Cruze]

Bright with that scripture, Emma. Every time debt is mentioned, it's in a negative fashion. Now, it's not a sin if you end up going, you're going to get to heaven with student loans. You're fine, right? It's not a sin. But every time it's mentioned, it is negative. It's a curse. It's you are a slave to the lender. It is not wise. Go read proverbs. Go read proverbs. What God has set before you. And before you make this mistake, Emma, please listen to your parents. They're giving you good wisdom and figure out how much is in that account because I think you can go to a community college even for a little bit if you need to create your.

[Dave Ramsey]

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