Go Into Debt for Experimental Medical Treatments?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show Highlights Episode: Go Into Debt for Experimental Medical Treatments? Release Date: February 20, 2025

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Introduction

In the February 20, 2025 episode of The Ramsey Show Highlights, the Ramsey Network delves into a sensitive and pressing issue: whether it’s advisable to incur debt for experimental medical treatments. Hosted by experts from the Ramsey Network, including Dave Ramsey, Ken Coleman, Rachel Cruze, Dr. John Delony, George Kamel, and Jade Warshaw, the episode provides listeners with practical advice on navigating the complexities of health-related financial decisions.

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Listener’s Dilemma

The episode begins with a listener, identified as Person B, reaching out for guidance. At [00:10], they explain their current financial and health situation:

Person B [00:10]: "We're on baby step 2 and it kind of took us a little bit to get there, mostly because we've been pretty sick, both of us, for the past few years, and we're seeking some medical treatment to hopefully nip this in the bud, hopefully in a few short months."

Person B and their spouse have been battling significant health issues, leading them to consider an experimental treatment recommended by their doctor. The treatment's cost ranges between $10,000 and $30,000, a sum not covered by their insurance. This financial strain places them in a precarious position, questioning whether taking on additional debt is a sensible choice.

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Financial Breakdown and Concerns

At [01:10], Person B elaborates on their financial commitments:

Person B [01:10]: "We have about $20,000 in student loan debt and then about $50,000 in a business loan."

Despite earning approximately $70,000 to $80,000 annually and contributing around $600 a month towards debt, the impending medical expenses threaten to derail their financial stability. The anxiety revolves around balancing necessary health treatments with existing debt obligations.

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Expert Advice and Recommendations

Dave Ramsey and his co-hosts engage deeply with Person B’s predicament, offering structured advice to mitigate financial risks while addressing health needs.

1. Seeking a Second Opinion

   At [03:12], Ramsey emphasizes the importance of confirming the necessity and cost of the treatment:

   Dave Ramsey [03:12]: "Maybe get a second opinion. I mean, we're talking about $10 to $30,000, right?"

2. Negotiating Medical Bills

   Highlighting the potential to reduce expenses, Ramsey suggests negotiating with healthcare providers:

   Dave Ramsey [04:03]: "I would get as close to that $10,000 and I would talk, negotiate doctor's bill. I would do whatever I could to get it down to that $10,000."

3. Adjusting Financial Priorities

   Ramsey advises pausing their debt snowball—an existing debt repayment strategy—to reallocate funds towards the medical treatment:

   Dave Ramsey [04:10]: "I would bump that $600 a month up to a thousand and save for 10 months. And then starting October, November, Andrew, start this treatment."

4. Exploring Payment Options

   The discussion also touches on the merits of saving and paying upfront versus taking out loans, with co-hosts like Ken Coleman weighing in on the psychological and strategic benefits of using cash over debt.

   Ken Coleman [06:55]: "When you're paying with cash and you're working and saving hard, it does force other things to come to the surface of other options and choices."

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Balancing Health Urgency with Financial Stability

Throughout the conversation, the hosts balance the urgency of addressing health concerns with the prudence of maintaining financial health. They acknowledge the emotional and physical toll of ongoing health issues while steering the listener towards a path that minimizes long-term financial hardship.

Dave Ramsey [05:27]: "If it's not debilitating because you guys are working and all of that, I would find something because I... It just forces other things to come to the surface of other options and choices."

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode concludes around [07:54], Ramsey reiterates the importance of making informed financial decisions without compromising health needs. He subtly advises exploring alternatives like health cost-sharing ministries, subtly referencing CHM as an option:

Dave Ramsey [07:54]: "Is that insurance? This is the Ramsey show. CHM isn't health insurance. It's a health cost sharing ministry. Check it out for yourself at chministries.org"

The episode wraps up by emphasizing the delicate balance between managing debt and ensuring necessary medical care, encouraging listeners to seek both professional medical and financial advice tailored to their unique situations.

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Key Takeaways

• Assess the Necessity: Before committing to expensive treatments, ensure their necessity and explore all medical opinions.
• Negotiate Costs: Always negotiate medical bills to reduce the financial burden.
• Reallocate Finances: Adjust financial priorities to accommodate urgent health needs without derailing long-term financial goals.
• Consider Alternatives: Explore options like health cost-sharing ministries as potential solutions.
• Maintain Open Communication: Engage with financial advisors and healthcare professionals to make informed decisions.

This episode serves as a crucial guide for individuals facing similar dilemmas, offering a balanced perspective that values both health and financial well-being.

Transcript

[A]

Brought to you by chm, a biblically based alternative to health insurance. Learn [e-mail] budget my wife and I.

[B]

Were on baby step 2 and it kind of took us a little bit to get there, mostly because we've been. We've been pretty sick, both of us, for the past few years, and we're seeking some medical treatment to hopefully nip this in the budget, hopefully in a few short months. But the medical treatment that we're looking at that was recommended by our doctor is experimental and it's not covered by insurance. And the treatment can be between 10,000 to $30,000. So we're kind of in a position where we.

[A]

Oh, no. Andrew, are you there? Andrew? Oh, no.

[C]

Oh, man.

[A]

Andrew, we'll give you one more second. Oh, yep, that's a bad line. I think we're going. There you are.

[C]

Oh, you're back.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

You're good, you're good.

[B]

My phone's a little weird, so. Yes. I don't know if my wife and I should actually take out a loan or not. We really don't want to, especially since we're.

[A]

Can I ask and share as much as you feel comfortable. But what's going on health wise?

[B]

We were. So we got pretty sick from the home that we were living in and so.

[C]

Like mold.

[B]

Yeah. So it's just been a lot of stuff that's been going on where a lot of the treatments have been not either FDA approved or treatments that have been getting us better. We are better, but it's just been a really long process. So the last time we talked with our doctor, he said that we should try and do like a hyperbaric treatment, which seems great. You know, he's had really great success with it. But the only problem is that the payment has to be upfront and so that's the only issue.

[A]

And insurance, this is obviously something more like in a natural bent, I'm assuming. So insurance isn't going to cover it.

[B]

No, insurance won't cover it.

[A]

Tell me, just health wise, are you guys able to. Are you able to work? Are you able to function? Like, how are you guys? You said you're doing better. I'm just trying to get a gauge about how urgent this. This is for you guys.

[B]

Yeah, so. So we are better and we are both working right now. We make about, I want to say, close to 70 or $80,000 right now a year.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The, you know, only problem with this is that the longer we put it off, the worse it'll get.

[C]

And so Just what's your margin every month? Like what are you right now putting towards debt? And baby step two that you could put potentially towards saving up for this or doing one at a time.

[B]

Yeah, we're able to put close to $600 or so a month into debt.

[A]

And how much debt do you guys have right now?

[B]

We have about, I want to say about $20,000 in student loan debt and then about 50,000 in a business loan.

[A]

Okay. Man, this is so hard. Cause I do feel like they're just from my own, not my own experience, but people within my close circles of friends and family even that I know. You know, when you get something, it's like autoimmune or mold or whatever that it can end up feeling. Andrew, like there's always something else we have. Like there's a long line of things that are continual. And so what I, you know, always just think about and kind of caution is I would number one, maybe get a second opinion. I'm sure you know your doctor well and trust them. But you know, I mean, we're talking about 10 to $30,000, right? I mean if it was $2,000, that's one thing. But I mean you're, you're talking, you know, five figures going in with treatments.

[C]

And so is that a piece or all in?

[B]

That would be for us combined.

[A]

And is this ongoing or is it kind of a one time?

[B]

Lord willing, it'd be just a one time, like you know, one, one to two months worth of treatment. So it'd be okay. 20 sessions is like, is about $10,000 on the high end. So we hope to be done in about a month.

[A]

Okay. So you know what, what I would probably do because again, I feel like this can sometimes feel like a never ending cycle. I would. And because it's not a, and I know you guys are saying I don't want to downplay at all the sickness. I'm sure it's just miserable, but it's not a life or death, like, okay, I have to save my child right now because you know, there's a, you know, like it's not this, it's not an urgency, but it is something for the betterment of your health. You want. So what, you know, what I would probably strive to do is whatever I could to get because 10 to 30 is a big range. So I would get as close to that 10 and I would talk, negotiate doctor's bill. I mean I would do whatever I could to get it down to that 10 and, and you guys are, you know, I would work to save a thousand a month. I would be okay right now because it is a health issue. Maybe to pause the debt snowball, stay current on your bills, but I would bump that 600amonth up to a thousand and save for 10 months. And then starting October, November, Andrew, start this treatment. And then hopefully by this time next year, you're through it, you're done. And then press play on the baby.

[C]

Steps, and maybe one of you goes at a time to see if it's helpful.

[A]

Oh, that's a good point.

[C]

You know, I know you're two different bodies with two different sets of, you know, but that might be a good way to say, listen, I did it. It did nothing for me, or I did it, and it really, really helped. That might give you some confidence going into the next treatment, too. It's just a thought. Like, I don't know what you're facing. I don't know if it's headaches or every time you eat, you know, whatever it is, if it's something that's truly debilitating. But if it's just. And again, I'm not. I don't want to downplay it either. But if it's something that's more of an annoyance that you're learning to live through, that gives you, you know, there's a little bit more timeline there to.

[A]

Get this done, for sure. And a sense, too, that, you know, you don't want to prolong it too long because, like, what you're saying, you know, they can come back and get worse unless you have this treatment. So getting to it. Right. A level of urgency. But it's also not like, we have to do this next month. The only option is a loan, and we're done. Like, yeah, if you can. And it's not debilitating because you guys are working and all of that, I would. Yeah, I would find something because I. And I would. Cash flow. And. And the other thing, Andrew, that's interesting is when you are working with cash, even when we're talking about, you know, health situations, it does force you. This is why I like cash. Forces you to look at other options, other decisions, like sell something. Yeah. There's just other parts of your brain of problem solving versus with debt. It's like, here's a chunk of money. This is all we're gonna do. We don't really have to pit the brain power to think through other things. It's just here. But when you're paying with cash and you're working and saving hard, like, I don't know. It just. It forces other things to come to the surface of other options and choices. That's also true.

[C]

But.

[A]

But, yeah. So, again, I'm so sorry. That is. That's stuff that is like. And that's. And that has been. I don't know. I don't know if you've. I've just had people and it's like you. You go to the next thing and then it flares up again. I don't know. It just feels like it's like whack a mole a little bit sometimes with different things. So I do want you guys to get that treatment, but. But because it's not. It's not life or death, right? In this moment, I would. I would calm down. I mean, you know, I would. I would pause a little bit and save up for it.

[C]

That's difficult. I remember when Sam and I were getting out of debt. This was before the days of Obamacare and you had to have insurance or else you were penalized. We didn't have insurance. And one day he was pulling our luggage out of the back of the Jeep and it got caught on his finger and he broke his finger. Oh, no. And we didn't have insurance. And I was like, listen, head over to Walgreens, tape it up. It's crooked to this day. And you know, he plays instruments. It wasn't good.

[A]

Take care of yourself.

[C]

Take care of yourselves.

[A]

Is that insurance? This is the Ramsay show. CHM isn't health insurance. It's a health cost sharing ministry. Check it out for yourself at chministries. Org Budget.