George Kamel (2:39)

Okay, so it's over. Essentially you're not getting future payments. You just have this kind of savings sitting here and you feel like, I don't want to, I don't want to touch this money. It feels weird.

Dave Ramsey (2:49)

Yeah. How much is in that account?

Sarah (2:51)

In the account right now is 2000 and I used four of it.

Dave Ramsey (2:56)

Four of it. And what are you going to plan? What are you going to do with it eventually? Are you going to give it to him when he's 18 or help pay for a car when he's 16 or college or what do you think?

Sarah (3:06)

That's what we were thinking, just a car or something like that. Like I said, my husband's been around since my son was six months old. So my son doesn't know. He doesn't know any different as of right now. And eventually we're going to tell him. I mean, we have to tell him, but we're just not there yet. And he's not emotionally mature enough to be there yet.

Dave Ramsey (3:26)

Sure. Okay. So what I'll speak to, I'll speak to the money side of it, Sarah, from the sense that, no, this is not a debt that you need to pay. I mean, you use the money essentially how the system works and you know, you use it exactly appropriately. And I know that it doesn't sit well with you because of who it's coming from. And that, that totally makes sense to me. But I think kind of the, the quote unquote debt going forward, which is not a debt, but is to say, okay, how can we best set up my son to have a life where he, from a financial standpoint, understands, understands money doesn't have to walk through this debt free journey. And we're setting him up in order to do that. And that looks like things like maybe college or um, helping with his first car, you know, what, whatever that may look like for you guys and for me, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't hold on to that emotional $4,000 anymore. Because I, I think you, I think you need to release that. But I think going forward, the motivation now is to pass a great legacy onto your son. Right. Regardless of $4,000 or not. So I under, I totally understand how that can feel like, oh my gosh, we use this money and it feels so gross and I hate it. Cause I don't. He's a terrible person. Um, but on. But you know, you, you guys were in a pinch at the time and that's what that money's for, is to help take care of your Son. And that's what you guys did. So I, I would, I would let go of that. Cause emotionally, I think it, I think it is holding onto you so deeply.

Sarah (4:51)

Yeah.

George Kamel (4:52)

So in the filing cabinet of your brain, we need to refile this. Instead of child support money from an abusive, awful relationship, this is changing my family tree money to set up my child for a better life than the one I experienced.

Dave Ramsey (5:04)

Yeah. And, and Sarah, too, you know, give yourself a little bit of grace. You know, if, if this was a 60,000, do you know, thing or something, and you're like, oh, my gosh, he was supposed to use it for a down payment on a house or, you know what I mean? Like a mag. Like, I feel like, like, like a lot of this magnitude and weight from a dollar standpoint. I feel like we could go at it a different way because I could see, you know, the more money it is, the more weight it feels. Right. So.

Sarah (5:25)

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey (5:25)

So with this 4000. Yeah, I, I want you, I want you to release it. For you, Sarah, again, it's not about the dollars at that point. To me, it, it's, it's that emotional attachment that's still there to him. And I, I, I want that, I want that release from you, you know, so whatever that looks like, I would.

George Kamel (5:43)

Have a goal for this money. Instead of letting it just sit there, it's only going to make, you know, reopen the wound. So I would put it in a 529 plan for college. I would put it toward, in a savings account for a car fund one day, because that day is going to come. And these things cost money, and this is, it's part of the deal. And, you know, there's a shared burden because that person was apparent. And this is what the court ordered. And so I, I would, it's hard to just say, release the guilt, Sarah. You're doing great. But that's the truth of it. It's, it's that hard and it's that simple to just go, all right, it happened. That was the past, and I'm going to make a better future for my kid now. And it sounds like you guys are thriving. And this child is so lucky to have you, too.

Sarah (6:21)

Yeah, we're, he's definitely blessed. My husband is literally a godsend, and he took him on like his own. And like I said, nobody, nobody knows. There's a couple people, like family knows, but he doesn't know. And my husband stepped up in more ways than I could ever even pray for.

Dave Ramsey (6:38)

Well, and give yourself to so much credit. Sarah, because we, we talked to so many people on this show and women specifically that are in, in a situation and they just, they don't feel like there's a way out and whether from its financial type abuse where, you know, husband's withholding and not allowing controlling. Yes. To physical, emotional. I mean, you know, you can fill in the gaps and stuff. The spectrum is wide and to break that cycle is so, so difficult. And as Dr. John DeLoney says, who works with, you know, so, so many people in this area says that there's, it's rare to have someone actually break it. So when you do, it is a.

George Kamel (7:14)

It is a something to be celebrated.

Dave Ramsey (7:15)

It's an applause. I mean, it really is. Sarah. So I mean, I, I just commend you for that. I know that was 12 years ago, but that is, that's incredible. Absolutely incredible. Yeah. George. When we, you know, think about part of the baby steps and what she said I loved because, yeah, it's baby step, you know, they're past baby step two. They're moving on for that fully funded emergency fund and so forth. And there, there is something so freeing from the sense of, yes, the dollars and cents are there. Right. We're being wise with our actual tactical money. That's, you know, very important. But it's so much bigger than that. It is like the place where money sits in our lives, the value of which we give it. And when you are out of debt, you have that emergency fund. It's, you're, you don't have to be obsessed with it, you don't have to stress about it because you're setting yourself up so well. And what that speaks to your kids and a household is everything. Like, to me, that is, that's part of family change, changing the family tree. It's not just from a, from a monetary standpoint, but from an emotional standpoint. That money doesn't have to be a stress point in our lives because we have control over it.

George Kamel (8:13)

Yeah. And there's a lot of belief there. People think there's some sort of like financial DNA that you're born with because of the environment and place and parents. But we're proving it with Sarah that you can break chains. You might be the first one in your family to become debt free, to create a better life for your kid, for your kid to go to college debt free, for you to have a home that you own free and clear, for you to become a millionaire. And it's something you get to choose and it's a daily choice and it's one of the hardest patterns to break because of all the shame and guilt from the past. And your belief system is so tied up and you talk about this and know yourself, know your money, the different money classrooms you grew up in, it really shapes you and you have to really try to break all of the bad stuff to get to the good stuff.

Dave Ramsey (8:53)

Totally. Yeah. Yeah. And as parents, you know, whatever you can do. You know, we always say more is caught than taught. But from again, that side, that, that standpoint of money, we're going to get in control of our money because yes, from a monetary standpoint, we need to know where our money's going. We want to be debt free. We want to start, you know, investing and letting the math work for us, like all of that. But more importantly, realizing that money is a tool. It is a tool to create a life that you love like that. That's what it is. It is not good, it is not bad. It doesn't have morals. And so how, how can that lesson and where money is placed in your life and in your heart and your identity, what your kids see that speaks louder than words. This is the Ramsey Show. CHM isn't health insurance. It's a health cost sharing ministry. Check it out for yourself@chministries.org budget.