I Found Out My Co-Worker Makes More Money Than Me (She’s Lower Level)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show Highlights

Episode Title: I Found Out My Co-Worker Makes More Money Than Me (She’s Lower Level)
Air Date: November 7, 2025
Hosts: Dave Ramsey & George Kamel
Caller: Senior Graphic Designer (anonymous)

---

Episode Overview

This episode tackles a common and emotionally charged workplace dilemma: discovering a colleague at a lower job level is earning a higher salary. The caller, a senior graphic designer, seeks advice on how to address the pay disparity with her manager. Dave Ramsey and George Kamel provide pragmatic strategies, encourage a mindset of curiosity and collaboration, and explore the complexities of salary transparency, negotiation, and professional growth.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Discovery and Its Emotional Impact

• The Scenario:

  • The caller (senior graphic designer) learns her lower-level co-worker (regular graphic designer) earns $80,000, while she earns $68,000.
  • Caller is unsure how to bring up the issue without implicating her co-worker or appearing too emotional.
  • [00:06] Caller: "My co worker... makes 80,000 and I make 68,000. And I'm wondering, how can I discuss this with my manager without throwing her under the bus?"

• Salary Transparency Culture:

  • Dave acknowledges open conversations about salary are increasingly common, especially among younger employees.
  • [00:46] Dave Ramsey: "It's all the rage among the youth is the new salary, transparency... We should all be talking all the time about how much we make and like fighting and like, unionize, you know, So I get it."

---

2. How to Approach Management About Pay Disparities

• Framing the Conversation:

  • Don't lead with accusations or gossip. Instead, focus on curiosity and seek to understand how pay is structured.
  • Dave suggests asking about growth plans and how roles are valued.
  • [01:07] Dave Ramsey: "I think you need to bring it up in a way that's like, hey, like, I found this information out, and I'm just curious how you guys look at valuing these positions..."

• Be Tactful and Logical:

  • Manage emotions privately before meeting with leadership.
  • [02:08] Dave Ramsey: "Just opening and say, hey, I need to have an uncomfortable conversation and I would leave as much emotion as you can out of it, which is hard. So I would like do your venting privately and then walk in there with a lot of logic..."

• Consider Circumstances and Other Benefits:

  • George urges curiosity, pointing out unseen factors like individual benefit packages or different negotiated deals.
  • [02:34] George Kamel: "Maybe your co worker said no on another benefit to get a bigger, to get more money in their pocket. Like there's different ways that people could have negotiated their salary..."

• Warning Against Resentment:

  • If management responds poorly, consider looking elsewhere for opportunities. Avoid harboring long-term resentment if feeling undervalued.
  • [01:56] Dave Ramsey: "If they treat this callously, I think that's also a sign that you need to go elsewhere."

---

3. The Limits and Downsides of Comparison

• On Raises and Expectations:

  • Caller reveals only two raises in over five years, one of which was a cost of living bump.
  • [03:28] Caller: "I've gotten one raise and well, two raises in five and a half years."

• The Comparison Trap:

  • Happiness with salary can turn to discontent when learning about others’ pay. This can foster resentment.
  • [04:35] Dave Ramsey: "That's why the comparison game of salary, it's never going to be like, oh, great, we're making the exact same amount... It just always turns into one person being resentful and upset."

---

4. Navigating the Conversation About Salary Knowledge

• Admitting How You Know:

  • Dave recommends honesty and modesty about finding out, but not blaming others for sharing.
  • [05:13] Dave Ramsey: "I think it's honest to say, hey, I heard this, like, through the grapevine... but you don't need to say they told me."

• Owning the Conversation:

  • George advises owning up to knowing information you “probably shouldn’t,” but not overdoing the explanation.
  • [05:34] George Kamel: "I'd own that and say, listen, this is probably information I shouldn't know, but I became aware of it..."

---

5. Advice for Next Steps & Personal Growth

• Considering Alternatives:

  • If the company seems indifferent, quietly begin a job search while giving the process time.
  • [05:58] Dave Ramsey: "If you feel like this is the case and they haven't been looking at it and been ignoring it... I would also be looking for other positions."

• Collaborative, Curious Mindset:

  • Frame questions to managers as seeking understanding and future growth, not as demands.
  • [04:35] Dave Ramsey: "Approaching it in a collaborative way, in a curious way of just going, hey, help me understand why this is and what a growth plan would be like..."

---

6. Memorable Quotes & Reflections

• On Emotional Triggers of Pay Transparency:
  • [04:30] Caller: "I was happy with what I was making until I found out that information."
• On Attitude vs. Outcome:
  • [07:52] Dave Ramsey: "It's like your attitude towards it makes all the difference."
• On the Perennial Nature of Wanting More:
  • [07:35] Dave Ramsey: "Well, I think there's just a level of it's never going to be as fast as you want, and you're always going to feel like, well, I deserve more."
• On Professional Growth:
  • Dave shares personal experience growing through several roles, not always at the pace he wanted.
  • [06:57] Dave Ramsey: "I've been at Ramsey, you know, 12 years now. And I've had six jobs... I haven't grown physically, but I have grown a lot emotionally."

---

Notable Moments & Timestamps

• 00:06–00:55: Caller explains her situation and Dave acknowledges the new normal of salary transparency.
• 01:07–02:08: Dave outlines how to approach the conversation with management using curiosity and tact.
• 02:34–03:24: George gives context about unseen salary factors and cautions against overreacting.
• 03:28–03:46: Discussion about the caller's raise history and timing the conversation around annual reviews.
• 04:30–04:35: Caller expresses the emotional trigger of learning about co-worker’s salary.
• 05:07–05:58: Advice on how to admit knowing about another’s pay and potential next steps if dissatisfaction remains.
• 06:47–07:46: Dave and George reflect on personal experiences of growth, frustration, and attitude in their careers.

---

Conclusion

The episode provides practical advice for anyone troubled by a salary disparity with a colleague, especially when combined with the emotional complexity of salary transparency. The key themes are to approach management with logic and curiosity, avoid impulsive confrontation, and address valid feelings while also considering personal growth and possibly new opportunities. Both Dave and George reinforce that attitude and process are as crucial as the outcome in salary negotiations and career development.

---

Memorable quote to close:
"It's like your attitude towards it makes all the difference." — Dave Ramsey [07:52]

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Caller]

My question is about fair pay. My co worker and I, I'm a senior graphic designer. He is regular graphic designer, which is a step below me. He makes 80,000 and I make 68,000. And I'm wondering, how can I discuss this with my manager without throwing her under the bus?

[Dave Ramsey]

How'd you find out? Through discussion with him or some water cooler break talk. And they're like, what do you. What are you making? Like, I'm making 80. And they're like, oh, gosh. Do they know how much you make?

[Caller]

Yes. Just conversation with my co worker.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

Which I know is normally not supposed to happen.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it's all the rage among the youth is the new salary, transparency. We should all be talking all the time about how much we make and like fighting and like, unionize, you know, So I get it.

[Caller]

Right? That's exactly what she told me.

[George Kamel]

Have you mentioned it? Have you mentioned it at all to your leader?

[Caller]

No, I have not.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so you're just looking for strategy on how to bring it up.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I understand you want to be, you know, cautious and tactful and not be like, well, so and so told me that they make this. You know, I think you need to bring it up in a way that's like, hey, like, I found this information out, and I'm just curious how you guys look at valuing these positions. Because I've been in this position this long. I'm at this role. What does a growth plan look like? You know, is there a reason why I'm, I'm behind on that? Or is it just, hey, the market has changed and they're needing to pay more to get new talent. Like, my, my guess is that it's not malicious. And my hope is that they do the right thing and go, yeah, no, we're going to. We'll give you a bump. Maybe it's not today. Maybe it's, hey, at your annual review, we're going to relook at this and give you what's fair. And if they, if they don't, if they treat this callously, I think that's also a sign that you need to go elsewhere. If you feel like you deserve more with the role and experience you have. You know, I wouldn't hold on to the grudge and resentment and stay where you are. I'd be looking elsewhere.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

But there's no. It's going to be uncomfortable. I would call that out. We have a guide on uncomfortable conversations on Our entree leadership side for business owners. That I think would also help you. You know, you're not on the leadership side, you're on the other side. But just opening and say, hey, I need to have an uncomfortable conversation and I would leave as much emotion as you can out of it, which is hard. So I would like do your venting privately and then walk in there with a lot of logic and not a.

[George Kamel]

Lot of feelings and curiosity. Yeah, I think George, you nailed it when you said curiosity. Because I'm just thinking through this and looking at possibilities. Because the truth is you've gotta as much curiosity as you can have and as much as. It's just, I, I don't know. Because the truth is maybe your co worker said no on another benefit to get a bigger, to get more money in their pocket. Like there's different ways that people could have negotiated their salary and benefits are a part of that too. True. I'm just saying we don't know the full story. We don't know the full story. And you guys are talking. He listen, at the end of the day, I don't know, I would not put all of my stock in what my co worker is saying. I would give some benefit of the doubt also to your manager. I'm just saying don't come in guns a blazing. That's all I'm saying.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have you been getting raises regularly?

[Caller]

I've gotten one raise and well, two raises in five and a half years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and do you feel like those were fair or do you feel like, hey, I went from, you know, junior to senior, there should have been a much bigger bump than just like a cost of living adjustment.

[Caller]

They. One of them was cost of living, one of them was a raise.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, yeah, I would, I would bring it up. Do you have an annual review coming up soon or like a one on one with your leader that you have regularly in December? Okay, that's a good time to have that. You could start the conversation now and they might say, hey, let's, let's punt this to December and we'll have a bigger conversation around it because your comp will likely change by then anyways. But you have, your feelings are valid. Let me just say that you're not. I don't like, hey, just suck it up and do your job, you're fine. I think you have very fair and valid feelings. I just know attacking it with that level is gonna feel like entitlement. And I've been there, I have attacked that problem with my leaders going, I just, I Feel like I should be making more because other people make good. That's just not gonna play well, unfortunately, in reality.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's the thing. I was happy with what I was making until I found out that information.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And that's why the comparison game of salary, it's never going to be like, oh, great, we're making the exact same amount and we're doing the exact same level of work with the same amount of effort. It just always turns into one person being resentful and upset. And that's the downside of these salary transparency conversations. So I think just approaching it in a collaborative way, in a curious way of just going, hey, help me understand why this is and what a growth plan would be like. That's. That's going to put the ball in their court to say, okay, yeah, that's fair.

[George Kamel]

What'd you say?

[Caller]

I should not let them know that I'm aware of your pay? Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can't. I mean, it's. I think it's honest to say, hey, I heard this, like, through the grapevine. Like this, you know, the conversation came up. Whatever it is, you don't need to say they told me. But they're probably. They're probably going to ask like, hey, like, where? How did that come up? Because that can also mean, hey, we were, quote, gossiping.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know what I mean? That can feel like that. So if I'm the leader, I'm going, why are you guys all in the break room?

[George Kamel]

Well, I even own that. I'd own that and say, listen, this is probably information I shouldn't know, but I became aware of it. And I. Yeah, and that way you're saying, hey, you know, you know, we're not supposed to be chatting about this, but at the same time, if somebody just up and tells you something, they just up and told you. So it's like, it's not Men in Black. We can't just, you know, what's a little pin join? You know?

[Dave Ramsey]

But I would also be. If you feel like this is the case and they haven't been looking at it and been ignoring it, whether on purpose or subconsciously, I would also be looking for other positions. And the job market's tough right now, so it might be, you know, six months before you find something that lands. But if you feel like, hey, it's my time to go anyways, my heart's not in it here anymore, then I would be considering that. But if you love it there and all. All other things aside, you're like, no, I love It. I just feel. Feel like I should be paid what I'm worth based on marketplace value. That's a different conversation.

[Caller]

Okay, that's very helpful.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller]

Thank you. 35.

[George Kamel]

Call us back and tell us what happened. Or leave the message. Tell us what happens. I want to know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

To be continued.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. We never know what happens with these conversations. Okay. That'll be a fun report back. Hey, remember I called about that? Well, I got the raise or.

[George Kamel]

I know, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

I found a new job. Making more.

[George Kamel]

Are you hearing this, James?

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm making a note. James is making a. But I felt this. Jade. I've been at Ramsey, you know, 12 years now.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I've had six jobs.

[George Kamel]

You've been here 12 years? Holy smokes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I started when I was a wee little baby boy.

[George Kamel]

Less.

[Dave Ramsey]

I haven't grown physically, but I have grown a lot emotionally. Mentally, I can see.

[George Kamel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, and so I feel like I've. I know that feeling because I've been there. And sometimes it was a legitimate. Hey, there. Maybe some poor leadership.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Maybe it was a. A poor timing.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

But a lot of the times it was just me. It was the guy ins and I was drinking my own poison, creating a.

[George Kamel]

Narrative that wasn't true about this versus that or.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Or like, why I'm not, you know, just this sort of like, little man syndrome. Fist in the air. Do you feel like you were.

[George Kamel]

You were. Do you feel like you fell victim to the little man syndrome?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I think there's just a level of it's never going to be as fast as you want, and you're always going to feel like, well, I deserve more. I work hard around here.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then over time, you look back and you're like, why was I so.

[George Kamel]

Why was I like this?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear that. Just the way you approached it, it was like the problem was true, but.

[George Kamel]

The way you went about it. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's like your attitude towards it makes all the difference.

[George Kamel]

Been there, been there, done that.

[Dave Ramsey]

I feel for her. Hope it goes well. Create your free every dollar budget today. The simplest way to budget for your life.