Ignore My Manager's Lapses in Judgement Or Fire Him?

Summary

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The Ramsey Show Highlights – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Ignore My Manager's Lapses in Judgement Or Fire Him?
Date: September 12, 2025
Podcast: The Ramsey Show Highlights
Host: Ramsey Network Team (featuring Dave Ramsey and Ken Coleman)

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Overview

This episode addresses a pressing leadership dilemma: Should a small business owner fire a manager with repeated lapses in judgment—like borrowing from employee tips and hiding errors—or continue giving him chances? Featuring classic Ramsey Network advice on difficult personnel decisions, the hosts break down why maintaining integrity among leadership is non-negotiable, especially in small businesses.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Dilemma: Should Andrew Fire His Manager? (00:10)

• Listener Question: Andrew from Michigan, a small business owner with 10 employees, is grappling with whether to fire a manager who sometimes excels, but also “borrows” tips, hides checking errors, and lies about mistakes.
  • “Should we fire him or give him one more chance?”
• Hosts’ Immediate Reaction: Both hosts quickly note the seriousness of the repeated integrity issues.

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Integrity vs. Performance (00:40–02:00)

• Ken Coleman:
  • Emphasizes multiple prior conversations and no sustained behavior change:
    “At this point we’ve not seen any behavior change.” (00:31)
  • Notes the emotional difficulty but urges separating personal feelings from business needs:
    “You have to separate emotion... But ultimately, you gotta do what’s right, and you’ve felt like this is a problem… This is a character issue, and it will turn into something bigger if you don’t get rid of it.” (01:20)
• Dave Ramsey:
  • Draws from experience in the restaurant industry via coaching:
    “If [the manager] is taking money out of that [tip pool], he's stealing from your other employees. That's not something you need to give grace to.” (01:50)
  • Underscores the impact on team morale and trust.

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Team Morale & Trust (01:42–03:36)

• Host A (Dave Ramsey):
  • Employees are likely aware of the theft:
    “There's not a single person that works in that restaurant that thinks this guy's awesome. He's stealing from them, and they know it.” (02:11)
  • Predicts a positive response if the manager is fired:
    “Everyone in the place is gonna cheer when you fire this guy.” (02:30)
  • Expands on zero tolerance for stealing and dishonesty in business.

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Zero Tolerance: Leadership and Integrity (03:37–05:30)

• Dave explains that their own businesses give employees warnings and second chances for most issues, but not theft or drugs: “There's a couple of things we don't...One of them is you steal. I don't really need to spend time rehabbing a thief.” (03:48)
  • Illustrates policy with stark hypothetical:
    “Somebody accidentally left a bag of cocaine... We don't have a second discussion about that—you’re gone.” (04:15)
  • Makes the distinction between correctable performance issues and fundamental breaches of trust.

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Stages of Small Business and Leadership Growth (05:30–06:50)

• Key Insight:
  • In a small team (10 people), leadership feels the pain of losing a key player, but keeping someone with poor integrity is far worse:
    “You are the secret sauce. That’s why you have a successful concern. But now you have to have a backbone and be a leader and fire a thief.” (06:38)
  • Assures business owners that dismissal will likely boost morale, not ruin the business:
    “Andrew, the whole place is not gonna shut down. Instead, they're gonna cheer for Andrew in Michigan… The guy that stole our tips, Andrew got rid of him. Andrew is the man!” (06:00)

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The Slippery Slope of “Borrowing” (06:47–07:03)

• Ken Coleman:
  • Warns about language that downplays theft:
    “You've enabled it by just using the language, borrowing. ...If he's borrowing or stealing from his coworkers, it's only a matter of time before he borrows or steals from you if he hasn't already.” (06:47)
• Dave Ramsey:
  • Adds colorfully:
    “100% chance his wife doesn't trust him.” (07:01)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On repeated talks with no change:
  “We’ve had numerous conversations… At this point we’ve not seen any behavior change.” (00:31, Ken Coleman)

• On team morale:
  “Everyone in the place is going to cheer when you fire this guy. He’s stealing their tips.” (02:30, Dave Ramsey)

• On zero tolerance:
  “I don’t really need to spend time rehabbing a thief.” (03:52, Dave Ramsey)

• Leadership reality check:
  “You are the secret sauce… But now you have to have a backbone and be a leader and fire a thief.” (06:38, Dave Ramsey)

• Caution about minimizing theft:
  “If he’s borrowing or stealing from his co-workers, it’s only a matter of time before he borrows or steals from you if he hasn’t already.” (06:53, Ken Coleman)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:10 – Listener question introduction: Should I fire my untrustworthy manager?
• 01:20 – Character issues vs. performance; repeated discussions with no change.
• 01:50 – Stealing tips: why it’s a dealbreaker.
• 03:37 – Zero tolerance: where the line is drawn.
• 05:30 – Small business leadership stages, risk of firing, and cultural strength.
• 06:47–07:03 – “Borrowing” language and final warnings.

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Takeaway

The hosts make it clear: There’s no room for compromise on integrity in leadership. Repeated lapses in judgment—especially theft—require decisive action, not another chance. Firing such an employee is critical, protects your team, and ultimately strengthens your business culture, even if the decision is emotionally difficult. As Dave Ramsey puts it:
“You are the secret sauce… But now you have to have a backbone and be a leader and fire a thief.” (06:38)

Transcript

[A]

Brought to you by why refi refinance your defaulted private student loans [e-mail] Ramsey.

[B]

Today's question comes from Andrew in Michigan. I own a small business which has grown to 10 employees plus my wife and myself. One of our growing pains has been our manager, who has been with us for two years. At times, he shines and is excellent and proactive. Other times he does random things like borrowing small amounts from the tips or hiding small checking errors and lying about dumb mistakes. We've had numerous conversations about these lapses in judgment. Should we fire him or give him one more chance? You know, again, I don't have enough details here to say why I would give him one more chance. It feels like we've had numerous conversations and so numerous at this point. We've not seen any behavior change.

[A]

He.

[B]

And what's tough is, is that this is somebody who carries a lot of water. Sounds like he shines in a lot of areas, but in an area that is a legitimate red flag where you've talked to him multiple times and it's not changing. Yeah, I don't think one more chance is necessary. Unless you have not communicated that this is, in fact now the last chance, we don't have this conversation ever again. This is a tough decision emotionally at times, but you have to separate emotion from maybe your fears of what would happen if this person, a high performer, leaves. But ultimately, you got to do what is right and you've felt like this is a problem. You're right. This is a character issue, and it will turn into something bigger if you don't get rid of it.

[A]

Yeah, the my. I mean, we coach a lot of restaurant folks in our small business program, Entre Leadership. And I'm not a restaurant person, but my understanding is most restaurants with what you're talking about here, at the end of the day, the tips are. Some people either put them in a pool or they are, you know, each. Each server keeps their own tips for the night. But if they put them in a pool and split them up among the servers and the busboys or whatever, and then the manager is taking money out of that, he's stealing money from your other employees. That's not something you need to give grace to. There's not a single person that works in that restaurant that thinks this guy's awesome. He's stealing from them, and they know it. The servers are a lot of things, but they carry heavy trays and they know where their tips went. I can tell you that. Okay, they work their butts off their feet, hurt, their back hurts. When they go home, they want to know where their tips went. And my manager took my tips. What do you do? You can't really go back and go, well, my manager took my tips. Who are you going to confront? Yeah. Let me tell you, everyone in the place is going to cheer when you fire this guy. He's stealing their tips. It's not real hard for me to figure out, so I'm a little. I'm not quite as easy going as Ken is on this. You don't have to be mean to him or anything. But when someone has. Steals from the tips, hides small checking errors. Is that code for embezzlement? What does hide small checking errors mean? Really? Okay. Like, he doesn't know how to do this stuff and lying about dumb mistakes. Yeah. Yeah. I think you have serious integrity issues with this individual, and you've got him in leadership. And so you've had enough.

[B]

You've had enough conversations.

[A]

I've had enough just reading this. He's gone. I'd fire him right now. I mean, I'd be nice about it, but we give people warnings around here, and we will talk to help them change behaviors and do things. There's a couple of things we don't. Okay. Right. You know, one of them is you steal. I don't really need to renovate. I mean, I don't need to spend time rehabbing a thief. I. That's one I need to work on because I got to look over my shoulder all the time, and I'm giving them my money to work here. So now you're done. You know, I just. I just. I thought I would get. Put it back later. You know what? Yeah. You're just gone. Okay. And the other one was, you know, we find, you know, somebody accidentally left a bag of cocaine in the. You know what? No, no, we don't have a second discussion about that. You're just, you know, to start with, there's a bag of cocaine and then there's accidental. Oh, my God. These two things don't go together. You're gone. I mean, this is not. We don't have. We don't have a big. We don't need a drug test. We already got the drug. It's okay. Get it. You're gone. And so it's just. No, I mean that, you know, so we. But that stuff doesn't happen here because of how stringent we are on hiring. But that's the type of stuff that we would have a zero tolerance on. And because I Don't need to discuss you if you don't have integrity. Now if you're just not good at your job or you got a bad attitude or you were nasty to somebody, I can talk to you about that, give you a chance to change your ways. You know, we can coach you along and coach you up and give you a chance to stay. The problem is, and you pointed this out is when you have 10 people you are at the stage where we call it the second stage of business. The first stages is treadmill operator and the next stage is Pathfinder. And so when you are at the Pathfinder stage it's like herding cats. Ten people, they're running in 10 different directions. Everything's not aligned. There's a lot of chaos. It can be that all of them are working hard. I had 10 people one time, I remember. I mean it's like everybody's working hard but they're running in 10 different directions. There's not a lot of alignment, not a lot of good, strong cultural values in place and that kind of thing. And you do have this sense of if I fire a key person and I have 10 people, the whole place is going to shut down. Well, let me help you. Andrew in Michigan, the whole place is not going to shut down. Instead they're going to cheer for Andrew in Michigan. They're going to go, Andrew, Andrew, Andrew. Because the guy that stole our tips, Andrew got rid of them. Andrew is the man I would chase the I would charge the gates of hell with a water pistol for. Andrew because he had my back. The guy that stole my tips, he fired him. That's what's going to happen. Yeah. You're not going to cave, you're not going to fall in. You're going to be stronger. And the longer you do this the more sure you'll be footed. You'll be in your decision making on these things and you'll make fewer and fewer mistakes on who I keep and who I give this to. But don't keep somebody because you think this place isn't going to run because of them. Don't dude. He was never the secret sauce in the first place. You are the secret sauce. That's why you have a successful concern. But now you have to have a backbone and be a leader and fire a thief. Yeah.

[B]

You've enabled it by just using the language. Borrowing. I thought that was interesting. He's borrowing tips. Here's what we know. If he's borrowing or stealing from his co workers, it's only a matter of time before he borrows or steals from you if he hasn't already.

[A]

100%.

[B]

So that's the thing.

[A]

100% chance his wife doesn't trust him. Why Refi Refinances Delinquent Private Student loans for Struggling borrowers. Learn more at Y r e f y.com Ramsey.