I'm 58 And Drowning In Debt

Summary

The Ramsey Show Highlights

Episode: I’m 58 And Drowning In Debt
Date: March 13, 2026
Hosts: Dave Ramsey & George Kamel
Guest: Lisa (Caller)

---

Episode Overview

This episode centers on Lisa, a 58-year-old single mom facing overwhelming debt—$60,000 in state tax debt, $60,000 in credit card debt, and $10,000 owed to the IRS. Despite earning a solid income, Lisa struggles to make ends meet and wonders if bankruptcy is her only choice. Dave Ramsey and George Kamel walk her through the roots of her debt crisis, confront her financial patterns, and chart an aggressive action plan to help her reclaim control without surrendering to bankruptcy.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

---

Lisa’s Debt Breakdown & Background

• Lisa’s Debt:

  • $60,000 state tax debt
  • $10,000 IRS debt (recently settled)
  • $60,000 credit card debt
  • Total: ~$130,000

• How Did the Debt Accumulate?

  • Divorce led to poor financial decisions with alimony
  • Maintained family lifestyle post-divorce out of “parental guilt”
  • Overspending to protect her kids from feeling the effects of the divorce
  • Personal struggles (recovery) contributed to the problem

  “I did a lot of spending out of like parental guilt, trying to make up that I'd lost.”
  — Lisa (00:46)

---

Assessing Lisa’s Current Financial Position

• Income:

  • ~$105,000 salary as administrative assistant
  • Additional ~$12,000/year from weekend work
  • Total take-home: ~$7,500/month

• Expenses:

  • $3,500/month rent in a high-cost area (Hartford)

  “Your rent is going to keep you from freedom here.”
  — George (03:13, 03:51)

• Lifestyle Choices:

  • Refused downsizing to maintain comfort for children (one still comes home from college)
  • Pays son’s car lease

  “You got to stop. That feeling of having to keep everything all right for them is what got you in $130,000 of debt.”
  — George (02:28)

---

Hosts’ Tough Love & Practical Guidance

• Downsize Housing Immediately

  • Cut rent from $3,500 to ~$1,500/month, even if commute increases
  • Reframe the need for a dedicated bedroom for adult children

  “It’s an air mattress in the living room... You being a burden because they have to cover mom’s expenses for the rest of her life because she’s broke is so much worse than them sleeping on an air mattress.”
  — Dave Ramsey (02:27, 02:49)

  • Lisa’s lease is up in June; time to search for cheaper options now

---

• Address Financial Enabling of Adult Children

  • Stop subsidizing adult children’s expenses (e.g., car payment/lease)
  • Have honest conversation with her son; if he cannot afford the lease, he must return the car or take over payments

  “The way we've been doing life with money and kids has to change today.”
  — George (05:52)

---

• Avoid Bankruptcy If At All Possible

  • Bankruptcy devastates credit and financial options into her mid-60s

  “If it's this or bankruptcy, I'll take a 20-minute commute... because that bankruptcy will destroy your financial life, at least for the next seven years.”
  — Dave Ramsey (04:39)

---

• Pause All Investing

  • Temporarily halt 401k contributions until debt is resolved

  “Let’s pause all investing to clean this mess up so that we can actually retire one day.”
  — Dave Ramsey (07:02)

---

• Plan a Debt Snowball Attack

  • Prioritize IRS and state tax debt (due to risk of wage garnishment)
  • Afterwards, use the debt snowball method: minimum payments on all except the smallest, which gets every available dollar

  “The IRS debt goes to the top because they can really screw up your life and garnish your wages. So I would attack that first... then just debt snowball it.”
  — Dave Ramsey (07:50)

---

• Budgeting Tools & Support

  • Utilize the EveryDollar app for granular control of spending and budgeting
  • Live on $4,000 a month; use the ~$3,500 of freed cash to attack debts
  • With focused intensity, Lisa could be debt free in 3 years, ideally by her 60th birthday

  “Let’s celebrate you becoming debt free. How cool would that be?”
  — Dave Ramsey (07:40)

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Parental Guilt & Debt:

  “You don't need to earn your kids’ love by going deeper and deeper into debt.”
  — Dave Ramsey (08:58)

• On Budget & Sacrifice:

  “We're going to cover four walls: basic food, utilities, housing, transportation, insurance. And then beyond that, we are living like broke college kids because right now your kids are living more lavishly than you are.”
  — Dave Ramsey (08:40)

• On Motivation & Encouragement:

  “You got this, Lisa. We're cheering you on.”
  — Dave Ramsey (09:05)

---

Important Timestamps

• 00:05 — Lisa explains her debt and how she got here
• 01:35 — Lisa reveals high rent; George and Dave react
• 02:28 — George and Dave press for immediate change in housing
• 03:51 — George stresses rent as the main financial obstacle
• 05:00 — Discussion of car lease for adult son; need to transfer or eliminate payment
• 06:49 — Calculation of debt-repayment timeline
• 07:50 — Explaining the debt snowball method
• 08:40 — Dave details “four walls” budget and living like broke college kids
• 09:05 — Dave and George close with encouragement and practical help

---

Summary Takeaways

• Lisa’s debt is the result of lifestyle inflation, parental guilt, and enabling adult children post-divorce.
• Despite a strong income, her expenses (especially rent) are out of control.
• Dave and George urge a radical realignment: cheaper housing, children’s independence, and no investment until debt is eliminated.
• Using the debt snowball and tight budgeting, Lisa could achieve debt freedom before retirement age.
• The hosts offer relentless honesty and supportive encouragement, framing financial sacrifice as the path to true freedom—for Lisa and her kids.

---

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Lisa]

I am 58 years old. I have $60,000 worth of state tax debt. I have $60,000.00 worth of credit card debt. I'm a single mom with two college age kids and I am trying to figure out if I should file for bankruptcy. I have another $10,000 that I owe the IRS. I came to a settlement with them, so I guess it's about now $70,000 in total tax debt.

[George]

How did that happen?

[Lisa]

Well, I, I'm a single mom and when I got divorced, I didn't make smart decisions with my alimony. I tried to keep my kids like in the same, you know, like, I didn't, I didn't make any changes. I wanted that, I didn't want them to feel like the divorce.

[George]

Okay.

[Lisa]

So I lived way beyond my means. I also went into recovery. So I was, you know, kind of white knuckling raising them. And I did a lot of spending out of like parental guilt, trying to like make up that I'd lost.

[George]

Okay, okay, okay, Understood. So what, what's the, what's the case now? What are you doing for work? What are you earning?

[Lisa]

I have, I have a great job. I make about $105,000 as administrative assistant.

[George]

Great.

[Lisa]

I have a side like I have. I also work for the same family at a farm on the weekends. So I have a little potential to make extra income, but I'm drowning because I can't, you know, like my, you know, I just, just got the, the Dollars app to figure out what's going wrong when I'm spending more, you know, in rent and even the basic things.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is your rent?

[Lisa]

It's $3,500.

[George]

Oh, girlfriend.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're, boy, are you bringing home like six or seven? What's the take home pay?

[Lisa]

My take home is 66. Yeah, 6,600 and then another thousand approximately when I do my other job.

[George]

Okay, okay, okay. So yeah, this is the problem. The rent is. Have you looked into things that, I mean, you're in Hartford, that's an expensive area. Have you looked into other options? I mean, what are you living in right now? What is the nature of your house? Two bedroom. What is it?

[Lisa]

Right now I am in a two bedroom apartment. I moved out of like the town I raised my kids in, and I moved into a less expensive area, but it's still very expensive. I'm, I'm currently looking like I was trying to keep, you know, my. One of my kids has graduated, but one of My kids still comes home and I still had that need to, like, have a bedroom.

[George]

You can hold on.

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[George]

You got to stop.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's an air mattress in the living room.

[George]

Yeah. You got to stop this mess because that. That feeling of having to. Everything all right for them is what got you in $130,000 of debt. So you gotta stop today. They're grown. They love you. You don't have to prove it. It's inherent. Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

Because here's the truth. You being a burden because they have to cover mom's expenses for the rest of her life because she's broke is so much worse.

[George]

Come on, George.

[Dave Ramsey]

Than them sleeping on an air mattress because mom can't afford $3,500 in rent, which is totally reasonable.

[George]

What's your commute right now? And how far can we get you out of town to get this?

[Lisa]

Yes. Right now is great. Like, I'm. I'm 10 minutes from my job.

[George]

This is the problem.

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[George]

We got to get you out into the country where. Where rent is $1,000 a month for a one bedroom.

[Lisa]

Yes.

[George]

Okay. And I'm laughing, but I'm being serious. Your rent is going to keep you from freedom here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, guys. George here. Listen, when you can save big money on your phone bill, do it. Boost Mobile's low rates mean you can unlock up to 600 bucks in savings over the so called big guys. You can bring your phone, keep your number, and pay just 25 bucks a month forever on their unlimited plan because you've got better things to do with your cash than feed the big carriers. So go to boostmobile.com Ramsey to make the switch today. Based on average annual payment of AT&T Verizon and T Mobile customers compared to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan as of January 2026. See website for full details.

[George]

Your rent is going to keep you from freedom here. So your first order of business, while everybody else is going out for Valentine's Day, you're going to be on the computer searching for a new place. When's your lease up?

[Lisa]

It's up in June.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, perfect.

[George]

Perfect. Yeah, it is perfect. That gives you time to find the spot. It gives you time to tell your kids, hey, we're moving. And that's wonderful.

[Dave Ramsey]

Think about it. You went down to 1500 instead of 3500. That's two grand a month you could be throwing at your debt.

[Lisa]

That's. That's. I've been looking for an apartment. I have been looking. I've downsized my look to one Bedroom apartment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Lisa]

And there's. I. I think you're right. I think I have to expand my commute distance because I'm still hitting a wall with prices.

[George]

You have to think about it. It's a must.

[Dave Ramsey]

If it's this or bankruptcy, I'll take a 20 minute commute. A 25 minute commute. Because that bankruptcy will destroy your financial life, at least for the next seven years.

[George]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Which puts you into your mid-60s by the time you can even recover.

[George]

Now, what. What about your car? Do you have a car payment?

[Lisa]

I have. I have a. I have. I own my car. I'm making my son's car payment.

[George]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no. Lisa.

[Lisa]

What?

[George]

Your name is not on it.

[Lisa]

Graduated. I know. He just graduated.

[George]

Is your name on it?

[Lisa]

Yes.

[George]

What? Why? Why? Why? Why? Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, this is fun. Then you get to say, hey, son, I got to sell this car.

[George]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hope you enjoyed driving it.

[George]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Tell him it was basically a rental. Hope you enjoyed driving the rental.

[George]

George has never been more right. But you have to do it right. How much is the car worth?

[Lisa]

It's 17,000 maybe.

[George]

And how much do you owe on it?

[Lisa]

It's lease. So the car that he has is lease.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, no, that's even worse. Cause you can't get out of this thing unless you have the lump sum to do a full buyout.

[Lisa]

Right.

[George]

When's the lease up?

[Lisa]

Or he could take the payments over.

[George]

He could. When's it up?

[Lisa]

I have to. Look, I'm not sure. I think it's another year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is he working?

[Lisa]

He just started a job. He just started an internship. So. Yes.

[George]

Okay. So I would have that conversation. I'd say, son, I made a mistake and I'm really sorry. I. Because it's going to affect both of us. I agreed to pay this lease. I can't afford it. I'm over here struggling. This lease is good for one more year. We either need to. You either need to take this on completely. If you can't afford it, I'll pay whatever little bitty portion that you can't afford to pay. But this is going to. And. And put it in George's words, if I don't fix myself now, I will end up being a burden to you later on in a greater way. And I don't want that. And hopefully he can understand that. But, yeah, the tables. The way we've been doing life with money and kids has to change today. And I'm glad that you called in because I think that you're starting to understand that. But I can't stress that these are not going to be. They're easy to understand, not easy to do, right? You know?

[Lisa]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So here's the math on this. If you say, you said you make about 7,500amonth if you keep the side job, right?

[Lisa]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you doing any investing right now?

[Lisa]

No. A little bit to my 401k, but I stopped that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Let's pause all investing to clean this mess up so that we can actually retire one day. That's the goal. And right now, investing is not helping us get rid of the mess. So let's say you could, you know, you make 7,500 and you lived on 4,000. That's fair, right? If you move this, if you switch your renting situation, that frees up 3,500 bucks a month to throw a debt. Right. With 130 grand in debt, you're done in about 37 months, three years.

[Lisa]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's if you do no other changes. If you can just cut your rent down and throw that amount of the debt, we're done in three years. I think you can do even better with this with your, you're very talented, you have a lot of high skilled, you know, you have a lot of high skills. I would use that to your advantage. Live on as little as you can for two years. Let's say your 60th birthday. Let's celebrate you becoming debt free. How cool would that be?

[Lisa]

That would be amazing. Really amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's possible. I mean, you can crunch the numbers and go, all right, this is the margin I need. I need $4,000 a month, come hell or high water to be throwing at this debt. And then do the debt snowball, knock out the smallest balance first for you. The IRS debt goes to the top because they can really screw up your life and garnish your wages. So I would attack that first, but once you're done with that, just debt snowball it. Whatever. The smallest card balances, attack that first. Minimum payments on the rest.

[Lisa]

Okay, you can do this. Making my minimum, keeping my minimum payments.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. Don't get behind on anything if you can help it.

[Lisa]

Yeah, I'm already a little bit behind on a lot of the payments.

[George]

Is anything in collections credit card wise?

[Lisa]

No, not one credit card is actually. Yes.

[George]

Okay, so go ahead and settle that one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just try to get current on everything and then attack the IRS debt, then debt, snowball the rest. That's your goals. We're going to cover four walls, basic food, utilities, housing, transportation, insurance. And then beyond that, we are living like broke college kids because right now your kids are living more lavishly than you are. That's pretty wild. Like I think college kids should be broke. That's the stage of life. Not a 58 year old woman who's trying to provide for them. So you have done more than enough. You don't need to earn your kids love by going deeper and deeper into debt. Right?

[Lisa]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got this, Lisa. We're cheering you on. I'm going to give you every dollar premium version to connect your bank accounts. Have all the transactions come through because you make great money. It's time to put every dollar to work cleaning up this mess. Create your free every dollar budget today. The simplest way to budget for your life.