Is Giving the Bank Our Money Biblically Immoral?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show Highlights – "Is Giving the Bank Our Money Biblically Immoral?"

Release Date: January 16, 2025

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Is Giving the Bank Our Money Biblically Immoral?", the Ramsey Network delves into the complex relationship between Christian financial principles and modern banking practices. Hosted by the Ramsey Network, this episode features an insightful conversation between a concerned caller and a knowledgeable expert, addressing whether utilizing banks aligns with biblical teachings.

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The Caller’s Dilemma: Interest-Bearing Loans and Biblical Prohibitions

The episode begins with a caller presenting a predicament common among believers striving to live their faith authentically. At [00:10], the caller states:

"My understanding is that interest bearing loans between brothers is prohibited. If I put my money in a savings account and I'm getting 4% interest back, am I just removing that responsibility from my loan? Because now the bank is then charging another believer interest using my money."

The caller is grappling with the biblical injunction against charging interest (often interpreted as usury) among fellow believers and contemplates whether engaging with banks inadvertently supports this practice.

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Expert’s Clarification: Institutions vs. Individuals

Responding at [00:33], the expert clarifies the distinction between personal financial dealings and institutional operations:

"You're not in charge of the bank, and the bank is not a brother."

This pivotal distinction emphasizes that banks, as institutions, operate independently of the individual moral obligations that might exist between personal relationships. The expert further elaborates that banks lack the personal soul attributes attributed to individuals, making the ethical implications different when dealing with large financial entities.

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Addressing the Role of Believers in Banking

The conversation deepens as the caller questions the ethicality of banks potentially being run by believers. At [00:38], the expert responds:

"It's not. A Bank is an institution. It's not the employees. If an individual, we can have a discussion about an individual loaning an individual money. But institutions don't have souls."

Here, the expert underscores that the operation of a bank should not be conflated with personal ethical decisions made by individual employees who might share the caller’s faith. The focus shifts from the intentions of the institution to its structural and functional nature.

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Scriptural Interpretation: Usury vs. Interest

A significant portion of the discussion involves the interpretation of biblical scripture regarding interest. At [02:37], the expert provides an in-depth analysis:

"The actual Hebrew word there is better translated usury than it is interest. And so it's not really a situation of Christians can't charge interest at all. Usury is the overcharge of interest."

The expert distinguishes between lawful interest and usurious practices, citing historical and scholarly perspectives. By referencing the Hebrew terms and Jewish scholarly interpretations, the expert argues that the biblical concern centers on the exploitation inherent in excessive interest rates, not on the concept of interest itself.

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Practical Implications for Christians: Banking and Debt

Moving towards practical advice, the expert discusses the broader biblical stance on debt and financial responsibility. At [04:15], they state:

"You could make the case that credit cards are usurious because they're 18 to 28%. Probably can't make that case with a mortgage rate."

This nuanced viewpoint suggests that while high-interest credit practices may conflict with biblical principles against overcharging, standard mortgage rates may not fall under this prohibition. Additionally, the expert emphasizes that the Bible does not label debt as a sin but rather advises against it for the sake of personal financial wisdom and freedom.

Further reinforcing this, at [04:50], the expert advises:

"It's instructional from scripture to have a budget. It's instructional from scripture to live on less than you make, to not co-sign."

Here, the focus shifts to proactive financial management as advocated by biblical teachings, promoting prudence and responsibility over blanket avoidance of debt.

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Conclusion: Embracing Grace and Wisdom in Financial Decisions

In wrapping up the discussion, the expert offers a compassionate perspective on navigating financial decisions within a faith-based framework. At [05:20], they conclude:

"Walk in grace, brother. Walk in grace. And be good and be kind, be compassionate, be wise. And don't try to figure out how the banking system is somehow built on dodging one Bible scripture that doesn't even."

This concluding remark encourages believers to approach financial decisions with grace and wisdom, rather than becoming entangled in exhaustive scriptural debates that may not bear direct relevance to modern banking practices.

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Final Thoughts

The episode "Is Giving the Bank Our Money Biblically Immoral?" offers a balanced exploration of faith and finance, addressing common concerns among Christian listeners about the morality of engaging with interest-bearing banks. Through thoughtful analysis and compassionate guidance, the expert helps demystify scripture in the context of contemporary financial systems, empowering believers to make informed and conscientious financial choices.

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Notable Quotes:

• Caller at [00:10]: "If I put my money in a savings account and I'm getting 4% interest back, am I just removing that responsibility from my loan?"

• Expert at [00:33]: "You're not in charge of the bank, and the bank is not a brother."

• Expert at [02:37]: "Usury is the overcharge of interest. Christians should not overcharge interest."

• Expert at [05:20]: "Walk in grace, brother. Walk in grace... be wise."

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For more insights and daily financial advice grounded in faith, tune into "The Ramsey Show Highlights" by the Ramsey Network.

Transcript

[Host]

Brought to you by chm, a biblically based alternative to health insurance. Learn [e-mail] budget so I have a.

[Caller]

Question about interest bearing loans. My understanding is that interest bearing loans between brothers is prohibited. If I put my money in a savings account and I'm getting 4% interest back, am I just removing that responsibility from my loan? Because now the bank is then charging another believer interest using my money.

[Expert]

You're not in charge of the bank, and the bank is not a brother.

[Caller]

Well, what if the bank is being run by believers?

[Expert]

It's not. A Bank is an institution. It's not the employees. If an individual. We can have a discussion about an individual loaning an individual money. But institutions don't have souls. And I promise you.

[Caller]

Right, but then on the back end of that, if somebody goes to a bank, like if I were to go to a bank and borrow money for a mortgage, I'm using the money of other believers, am I? Maybe. Am I enabling them to.

[Expert]

How do you know that they didn't loan you the money though?

[Caller]

Right. The bank pooled a whole bunch of people's money. And so I don't know who the money belongs to.

[Expert]

Exactly. So you can't make that judgment. Again, you can't make that judgment.

[Caller]

Right. It just seems like that's a way to sort of obfuscate what's happening. So that removes responsibility from anybody.

[Expert]

No, that's not the intent. The intent is. That's not the intent of the scripture to start with. And banks didn't all get together and go, you know, there is this line in Deuteronomy and to get around that, we're going to create this whole system. No, they didn't do that. I promise. They didn't think a thing about Deuteronomy, not once. And so. No, that's not. You're not doing anything wrong. It's like saying if I do business, if I buy a pizza at Pizza Hut, but they take credit cards for other people to buy a pizza and put them in debt. Am I supporting Visa putting people in debt through Pizza Hut? No, you're not. You're just buying a pizza. Yeah, yeah. You know, you really work. You're really working hard here to be guilty of something. That's a good way to put it.

[Caller]

It's something that I don't really hear anybody talk about. So I'm sort of.

[Expert]

I'll help you. I'll tell. I'll tell you why. Okay. Because the scripture that you're referring to does not say interest in The Hebrew, it only says it in the new King or in the King James. The rabbis in Judaism do not teach what you're talking about. Thus Jewish people have been in the banking business from day one, okay, from the time there's been Jewish people. So that most, most scholars, even evangelical scholars will tell you that the actual Hebrew word there is better translated usury than it is interest. And so it's not really a situation of Christians can't charge interest at all. Usury is the overcharge of interest. Christians should not overcharge interest. And so there were states decades ago that had usury laws that prevented interest rates from being above a certain level because of that. And it came from that scripture. But the word usury, there is a, when you do the word studies on it and you get down into the scholarship on it is more akin to overcharging of interest than it is the charging of interest. So you could make the case that credit cards are userous because they're 18 to 28%. That's a user is an overcharging of interest rates. Probably can't make that case with a mortgage rate. And I can make the case that you shouldn't be borrowing money at all because there's not a single positive reference in the Bible to debt. But I can't tell you that borrowing money is a sin. As a matter of fact, I'm positive that the Bible never once refers to debt as a sin. It refers to it as lacking in sense. You're a slave, it's a curse upon you if you go into debt, all these negative connotations. But never once is it a sin issue. And never once is it mentioned as a salvation issue. It's not just instructional from scripture to avoid debt. It's instructional in scripture to have a budget. It's instructional from scripture to live on less than you make, to not co sign. There are instructions all through scripture regarding money. This is one of them, to not overcharge, particularly your brother, a userous amount of interest. But dude, when you fall down the Pharisee rabbit hole where you're trying to unpack every, uncross every T and every jot and tittle, you really can't pull the thread long enough to make. To keep the sweater from. To keep the sweater intact. It just doesn't work. And so you walk in grace, brother. Walk in grace. And be good and be kind, be compassionate, be wise. And don't try to figure out how the banking system is somehow built on dodging one Bible scripture that doesn't even.

[Host]

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