Keep Having Kids To Keep Getting Government Assistance?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show Highlights

Episode: Keep Having Kids To Keep Getting Government Assistance?
Date: October 30, 2025
Host(s): Dave Ramsey, Jade Warshaw
Caller: Emily

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Dave Ramsey and Jade Warshaw tackle a listener's complex question about family dynamics and the intersection of faith, finances, and government assistance. Emily, a ministry worker, calls in to ask for guidance regarding her brother, a pastor with eight children, who relies on government aid and family support, citing biblical reasons for his life's choices. The discussion centers on personal responsibility, healthy boundaries, and the misuse of religious justification for financial decisions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Emily’s Family Dilemma (00:02–01:18)

• Emily explains her brother's belief: God commands Christians to have as many children as possible (00:19). Despite limited finances from his pastor’s salary, her brother relies on state aid and family support, believing this is biblically justified.
• Emily’s concern: She feels this approach is irresponsible and seeks advice regarding both the ethics and the impact on her parents, who are often pressured for more support.

Dave’s Initial Reaction: Faith, Finances & Responsibility (01:18–02:53)

• Dave firmly disagrees:
  • “That is not biblical.” (01:21)
  • Dave references scripture: “The Bible also says that those that won’t take care of their own household are worse than an unbeliever.” (01:25)
• Clarifies stance on government aid:
  • Doesn't condemn temporary assistance during rough patches (02:42), but draws a clear line against making it a way of life:
    • “I’ve never met anyone who prospers on government aid.” (02:16)
    • “It’s not an act of love for me to recommend that… it’s just loving the person and saying, gosh, I’ve never met anybody on welfare that had just a wonderful life.” (02:21)

Setting Financial Boundaries as Family (02:53–04:51)

• Emily asks about parental boundaries: Her parents visit, help generously, but are repeatedly faced with “hints” for more help (03:18).
• Dave’s advice:
  • Your brother’s mindset won’t change easily:
    • “There’s not anything your parents are going to say or you’re going to say, it’s going to change your brother. He’s made his decision.” (03:36)
  • Suggests parents create an explicit budget for gifts/support to grandchildren, but draw the line:
    • “Past that, the answer’s no.” (04:19)
    • “I have a budget of money I’m gonna burn on these grandkids just to be that guy, and I’m not gonna worry about it... when it gets above that, I’m not gonna do any more.” (04:20)

On Enabling vs. Detachment: Advice for Emily (04:51–06:11)

• Jade steps in: Reminds Emily this isn’t directly her issue, and not everyone is responsible for her brother’s choices:
  • “If I were you, respectfully, I’d just mind my own business.” (04:51)
• Dave adds nuance:
  • “As an ongoing pattern, yes, but as an off thing...” (05:31)
  • “If they don’t like that, I don’t agree that he has labeled himself needy biblically. And I don’t agree with that label. So I’m not going to biblically step up and make him not needy. He’s needy, but it’s not money.” (05:44)
• Jade’s memorable quip:
  • “He needy a new job.” (05:59)
• Dave, laughing:
  • “You’ll get a jaidism dropped on you like a bomb!” (06:05)

The Dangers of Spiritual Manipulation (06:11–07:49)

• Dave shares a story: A man once told him, “God told me you’re going to give me a new van,” (06:35) to which Dave replied, “No, he didn’t. Because if God told you that I was going to give you a new van, he would have told me, and there would be a new van sitting out there with the keys in it.” (06:48)
• Moral of the story:
  • “Crazy Christians give the rest of us Christians a bad name, y’all. I’m just saying.” (07:22)
  • Point: Using scripture or “divine guidance” to pressure others for money or resources is not genuine or ethical.

The Real Issue: Impact on Kids & Responsibility (07:49–09:30)

• Concern for the children:
  • “There’s eight kids being affected.” (07:49)
  • “Now they’re being raised by that, and then they can’t figure out why they strayed away from the church—because they were raised poor, because their mom and dad had decided to have a bad series of biblical definitions.” (07:52)
• Balancing scriptural intent:
  • Dave notes, “I do love the idea that we ought to be fruitful and multiply, but maybe we also ought to raise our income while we’re doing that so that we can feed them.” (08:04)

Acceptance, Boundaries, & Letting Go (08:30–09:30)

• Jade’s advice: When it comes to family, sometimes all you can do is love them as they are:
  • “You get to just sit on the sideline, be frustrated, or just watch them and grin and go, that’s my brother. Yep, that’s him. That’s the guy. I know that guy.” (08:43)
• Dave on enabling and frustration:
  • “That’s how we become enablers if we’re not real careful or just really frustrated with family members.” (08:59)
• Jade and Dave’s humorous wrap-up:
  • Jade: “Meanwhile, they’re broke, eating a sandwich. They don’t care.” (09:06)
  • Dave: “They’re broke eating a sandwich somebody else made.” (09:12)
  • Dave: “Media job. I can’t believe you, Jake. That was really good... I’m going to steal that one three more times.” (09:19)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dave Ramsey: “The Bible also says that those that won’t take care of their own household are worse than an unbeliever.” (01:25)
• Jade Warshaw: “He needy a new job.” (05:59)
• Dave’s van anecdote: “If God told you that I was going to give you a new van, he would have told me…” (06:48)
• Jade: “You get to just sit on the sideline, be frustrated, or just watch them and grin and go, that’s my brother.” (08:43)
• Dave: “I do love the idea that we ought to be fruitful and multiply, but maybe we also ought to raise our income while we’re doing that so that we can feed them.” (08:04)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:16 – Emily introduces her family’s situation.
• 01:21 – Dave’s explicit biblical response.
• 02:16 – Dave on government aid and prosperity.
• 04:19 – Advice on parental boundaries.
• 05:59 – Jade’s “He needy a new job” quip.
• 06:35–07:22 – Dave’s story about being asked for a van.
• 08:04 – Dave ties together “be fruitful and multiply” with financial reality.
• 08:43 – Jade: “That’s my brother” advice.
• 09:06–09:19 – Humorous closing exchange.

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Summary Takeaways

• Using religious rationale to justify financial irresponsibility is neither biblically sound nor practical.
• Temporary government assistance can be necessary, but relying on it as a lifestyle is not a path to prosperity.
• Family members must set and communicate clear financial boundaries; gifting should be intentional, not coerced.
• When dealing with relatives who have made up their minds, sometimes the best approach is to love them from a distance and accept limitations on what you can control.
• Beware of spiritual manipulation—true biblical charity is voluntary and grounded in responsibility, not guilt.

This episode affirms the importance of personal accountability, the limits of familial intervention, and the wisdom of purposeful generosity, all delivered with Dave and Jade’s trademark humor and frankness.

Transcript

[Emily]

Brought to you by CHM, a budget friendly, faith based alternative to health insurance. Chministries.org budget hi. Well, I'm calling with sort of a financial, moral, ethical and biblical question all in one.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'll let it rip.

[Emily]

So my brother and I, we both work in ministry, different churches, we live in different states. He's clear across the country than me. He and his wife, they have eight children and their belief is that God called us to go forth and multiply and they believe Christians should be having as many children.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, they are doing a good job.

[Emily]

Of that well, regardless of finances. So their only income is my brother's pastor salary. And as you may imagine, pastor salaries, you know, nobody goes into ministry to, you know, make it big. So he has actually said in podcasts and interviews that if you have more children than you can afford to have, that qualifies you as the needy and the church and family members are called to help the needy. And so his solution to this is to be on state aid in addition to a salary. And his in laws also pay them a stipend every month because they believe he's in ministry and they should be helping them with their bills. I think it's lunacy. I think it's crazy. And I was just kind of curious what your opinion was of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

I completely agree.

[Emily]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that is not biblical.

[Emily]

I don't believe it's biblical either.

[Dave Ramsey]

And even though the Bible does, the Bible does say to be fruitful and multiply. The Bible also says that those that won't take care of their own household are worse than an unbeliever.

[Emily]

I would 100% agree with that. And he and I are the same denomination, but sometimes I wonder if we're reading the same Bible. But my other question to piggyback on that is do you think Christians in any capacity, whether you're a pastor or a firefighter or whatever, should ever be taking advantage of government or as I like to call it, to taxpayer funded aid?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I'm not ready to throw rocks at everybody who ever does anything, but obviously we at Ramsey are big on helping you prosper and I've never met anyone who prospers on government aid.

[Emily]

I would 100% agree with that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it's not an act of love for me to recommend that or you certainly wouldn't tell people to do it as a way of life because it's not good for them. Not. It's not. It's not. It's not as much a moral judgment as it's just Loving the person and saying, gosh, I've never met anybody on welfare that had just a wonderful life.

[Emily]

You know, I would agree with that.

[Jade]

Consistency of staying on welfare.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but. But are you going to hell or are you a bad Christian if you go through a rough patch and the government helps you for a little bit? I'm not going to be that judgmental. I'll give you a break on that.

[Emily]

Okay, Perspective. And my other question was actually kind of on behalf of my parents. My parents are very generous people. They fly out, so they live in Detroit with me, but they fly out to where my brother lives periodically, you know, to see the kids to keep up that relationship. And they're very generous when they're there, but when they are there, you know, they kind of have their limits on generosity. My brother will make comments like, gee, you know, my van needs new tires, and, you know, see these bald tires? It's not safe. Or one of the kids lost their glasses and, you know, we just can't afford to repair them. What are some good boundaries that parents of adult children could have on saying, well, this is your problem, you know?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Emily]

So it's just kind of. My question is.

[Dave Ramsey]

The thing is, there's not anything your parents are going to say or you're going to say, it's going to change your brother. He's made his decision.

[Emily]

True. It's very true.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so I'm either just going to love him where he is and disagree with him. I mean, I have relatives that vote wrong, and I love them anyway, you know, and so, you know, that's okay. You know, and they think I vote wrong, so it's okay. And they love me still. So. But. But now, you know, how much money am I going to pour into a situation like that? Listen, they're fixing the ball tires or replacing the lost glasses is not going to repair this situation. It's bigger than that.

[Emily]

Correct. And that's what the advice they've been given by other people is. That's just a band aid on it. But the tires are going to be an issue again. The glasses are going to be lost again. Whatever it is, it's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So, you know, I would just say, okay, I. I have a budget of money I'm gonna burn on these grandkids just to be that guy, and I'm not gonna worry about it. But past that, the answer's no. And so when we go out here and visit, we're planning to drop $1,000 into kids stuff that they need right now because their Dad's kind of a doofus, and so I'm just gonna have that as my line item. And then when it gets above that, I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not gonna do any more than that.

[Jade]

Also, Emily, everything that you're talking about is not even a direct effect on you. You're talking about, this is your brother, this is your brother and your parents. Deal. So if I were you, respectfully, I'd just mind my own business. Because nobody's coming to you for money, right?

[Emily]

Well, it's her mom. And this has not been said directly to me, but a good friend of mine is actually married to my sister in law's brother and she has made many comments about how, oh, gosh, they're in such bad, you know, straits financially. Everyone in the family, including, you know, myself and my husband, should be helping them. And I just think it's wrong. I think you should be embarrassed if you're in your 30s and 40s and you're counting on family members to pay for things for you. I think you should be so ashamed.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so as an ongoing pattern, yes, but as an off thing. But yeah, but you know, again, somebody four degrees of separation away doesn't get a vote on what I do if they don't like that. I don't agree that, that he has labeled himself needy biblically. And, and I don't agree with that label. So I'm not going to biblically step up and make him not needy. He's needy, but it's not money.

[Jade]

He needy a new job.

[Dave Ramsey]

Careful, you'll get a jade is. You'll get a jaidism dropped on you like a bomb.

[Jade]

You need a job.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, that's it. That's the deal right there. Y. Here's the thing. It is frustrating to watch people that you love, especially when they're taking advantage of people that you love. And it's not. And they're not winning. But I'm also not going to get sucked into anyone else's guilt trip or I particularly resist someone trying to Christianize their guilt trip.

[Jade]

I know that's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, like, we had a guy one time at the old office, Jay, this was funny. He came in and he was at the front desk, and I walked out. They said, this guy's out here to see you. And I walked out front and he said, God told me that you're going to give me a new van. And I said, no, he didn't. He said, oh, yeah, yeah, he did. And I said, no, he didn't. Because if God told you that I was going to give you a new van, he would have told me, and there would be a new van sitting out there with the keys in it.

[Jade]

I know that's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

If God told me to do it, that's what would have happened. But God didn't tell you nothing. You had bad pizza last night, and you're blaming God. And so. And then, of course, he starts cussing and screaming about how we're not real Christians and had a little duck fit right there on the floor and we had to have him removed. But. Because you don't. You don't challenge these God people when they're doing this stuff. So, I mean, crazy Christians give the rest of us Christians a bad name, y'. All. I'm just saying. So God told me that, you know, and so you're going to quote scripture that demands that you remove my private property from me. We're going to have an issue with that. Needy, Needy. A new job. That's it. Yeah. Wow. And here's the sad thing. There's eight kids being affected.

[Jade]

That's what I know. Yeah, that's.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's tough. Now they're being raised by that. And then they come. Then they can't figure out why they strayed away from the church.

[Jade]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because they were raised poor. Because their mom and dad had decided to have a bad series of biblical definitions. But I tell you, I do love the idea that we ought to be fruitful and multiply, but maybe we also ought to raise our income while we're doing that so that we can feed them. That's supposed to be the kind of thing that goes with it. So I agree with you. I agree with your frustration, Emily. But to Jade's point, there's not anything you're going to do about any of this. So this was just a discussion we all had because nothing changed at the end of this discussion. No, because we could give no one instruction in this process that's going to take the instruction. Yeah.

[Jade]

If they wanted help, they would have called in. If the parents wanted help, they would have called in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep.

[Jade]

So.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so now you get to just sit on the sideline, be frustrated, or just watch them and grin and go, that's my brother. Yep. Yep, that's him. That's the guy. I know that guy.

[Jade]

That's the hardest part of all this, though. When you see a better way and, you know, a better path and you just want that person to just change.

[Dave Ramsey]

You want it more than they do. Yeah, that's. That's how we become enablers if we're not real careful or just really frustrated with family members.

[Jade]

Yeah. You're just sitting back there. Just meanwhile, they're. They're broke, eating a sandwich. They don't care.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, they're broke eating a sandwich somebody else made.

[Jade]

That's right. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Media job. I can't believe you, Jake. That was really good. That's good. That's good. I like it. I'm going with that. I'm sticking with. I'm gonna steal that one three more times. That'll be something.

[Emily]

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