My Church is Telling Me To invest Less and Tithe More

Summary

Summary of “My Church is Telling Me To Invest Less and Tithe More”

Episode Release Date: April 13, 2025
Podcast: The Ramsey Show Highlights
Host: Ramsey Network

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Introduction

In this episode of The Ramsey Show Highlights, listener Daniel from Oklahoma raises a pressing concern about the financial guidance being provided by his church leadership. The central issue revolves around the church's directive to prioritize tithing over personal retirement investments. Host Dave Ramsey delves deep into this matter, providing a comprehensive biblical and practical perspective on managing finances in alignment with faith.

Listener's Concern

Daniel shares his experience with a large church that emphasizes tithing—donating a tenth of one’s income to the church—and advises members to deprioritize personal retirement investments. The church leadership asserts that while retirement investments are volatile, contributions to the church and adherence to God's word are eternally prosperous. Daniel is conflicted about whether he should halt his retirement savings to comply with his church's directive.

Notable Quote:
[00:09] Daniel: “Our church leadership recently said, do not focus on investment for retirement, but focus on investment given to church and the word of God. Retirement investment can go up and down, but investment in your church, investment and God's word will always prosper. Should we stop investing in order to fund our local church?”

Dave Ramsey’s Response

Dave Ramsey responds firmly to Daniel's predicament, addressing both the theological and practical aspects of the issue.

Biblical Perspective on Tithing and Retirement Investing

Ramsey clarifies that tithing is biblically mandated as a ten-percent donation of one's income to the church. He emphasizes that tithing is not a substitute for retirement planning but a complementary practice.

Notable Quote:
[00:34] Dave Ramsey: “If a leader of the church said this to an individual, to you, or corporately from the platform, if they said this, this is not biblical, Dave. And so the answer would be a resounding NO.”

Importance of Both Tithing and Saving

Ramsey advocates for balancing generosity with prudence. He underscores that believers are encouraged to support their church and invest in eternal endeavors while also being wise stewards of their personal finances to ensure a stable future.

Notable Quote:
[04:15] Dave Ramsey: “I believe that to be biblically correct, above that 10% is not more tithe, because by definition, you can't be more. You can't say I'm going to tithe more than 10% because the word means 10%.”

Critique of Church Leadership’s Guidance

Ramsey expresses concern over church leaders who might be advocating for financial practices that disregard personal financial security. He warns that such guidance may stem from misguided interpretations or, in extreme cases, manipulative intentions.

Notable Quote:
[06:30] Dave Ramsey: “If they're actually saying this, it's probably some kind of sick, toxic, little small church. There's something going on that's wrong.”

Supporting Scripture and Insights

Ramsey references several biblical scriptures to bolster his argument that while generosity is crucial, so is prudent financial planning.

• Deuteronomy: Highlights the importance of saving for needs, ensuring personal and familial security.

  Quote:
  [05:45] Dave Ramsey: “In the house of the wise are stores of choice, food and oil. The diligent prosper.”

• Proverbs: Emphasizes wisdom in financial management and the importance of preparing for the future.

  Quote:
  [05:50] Dave Ramsey: “Wise people save money for a rainy day. They save money for purchases, and they save money in our society to retire with dignity so they don't have to become a charity case.”

Implications and Advice

Ramsey advises Daniel—and listeners in similar situations—to evaluate their church's teachings against biblical standards. If a church's financial directives contradict scripture, it may be time to reconsider association with that congregation.

Notable Quotes:
[07:11] Dave Ramsey: “You need to leave. Full stop that.”
[07:20] Dave Ramsey: “That's manipulative. Trying to shear the sheep every Sunday.”

Final Thoughts

Beyond addressing Daniel's immediate concern, Ramsey touches on broader themes of generosity versus consumption. He advocates for a lifestyle where reducing unnecessary expenditures can significantly amplify one’s ability to give and support meaningful causes.

Notable Quote:
[07:24] Dave Ramsey: “If this guy's really doing this, I'm gonna call him out, say, no, honey, you're not following the word of God, and I'll challenge you on that.”

Ramsey concludes by reinforcing the importance of aligning financial practices with biblical teachings, ensuring that believers can both support their faith communities and secure their personal financial futures.

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Key Takeaways

1. Tithing and Retirement Are Both Biblical: Tithing a tenth of one’s income is a scriptural mandate, and so is prudent saving for retirement.

2. Evaluate Church Teachings: If a church’s financial advice contradicts biblical principles, members should seek guidance and possibly reconsider their affiliation.

3. Balance Generosity and Prudence: Believers are encouraged to be generous and invest in eternal matters without neglecting personal financial responsibilities.

4. Wise Financial Stewardship: Scriptures advocate for saving and investing wisely to ensure personal and familial well-being.

5. Avoid Manipulative Practices: Churches demanding disproportionate financial sacrifices without biblical backing may have ulterior motives.

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This episode serves as a crucial reminder for listeners to critically assess financial advice within their faith communities, ensuring that their practices honor both their spiritual convictions and practical responsibilities.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Ramsey Today's question comes from Daniel in Oklahoma. My church is very big on encouraging its members regarding tithing. Our church leadership recently said, do not focus on investment for retirement, but focus on investment given to church and the word of God. Retirement investment can go up and down, but investment in your church, investment and God's word will always prosper. Should we stop investing in order to fund our local church?

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Well, if all caps, if a leader of the church said this to an individual, to you, or corporately from the platform, if they said this, this is not biblical, Dave. And so the answer would be a resounding all caps.

[A]

No from it would be a resounding change churches.

[B]

Yeah, this is.

[A]

If someone's doing that. Let's walk through what portion of this is accurate. And I don't know if you've twisted this or not, Daniel, or you heard it through a different lens of some kind. So I'm not positive what church leadership has said other than what you told us. Okay, so we have to go on what you told us because it's the only information we have now, number one, the tithe is not in place of retirement. The tithe is a tenth of your income. The word, when you look it up in the Hebrew or in the Greek, Jesus used the word tithe twice. When you look it up, it literally means 10th. It means 10%. And evangelical Christians have taught for over a thousand years that we believe that a tithe, a tenth of our income goes to our local church to support the work of God. So if you're attending a church, you're an evangelical Christian. That's a standard teaching in a Baptist church, in a, you know, any kind of normal Protestant church out there, that a tenth of your income. Standard evangelical belief and teaching. I've taught it for 30 years, and I tie the 10th of my income to my local church. Okay, that, that's, that's what I believe. I believe that to be biblically correct, above that 10% is not more tithe, because by definition, you can't be more. You can't say I'm going to tithe more than 10% because the word means 10%. So anything above that is called an offering to support the kingdom of God or to support the community work that the church is doing, which is good work usually. So, yeah, there's nothing wrong with that. And you do want to be doing a portion, if not a good portion of your generosity. In your budget to things that are eternity oriented, where moth and rust don't destroy, which this person said retirement investment can go up and down, but investment into the kingdom of God. They said church and God's word. You're not actually giving God's word money. You're following God's word when you give money into God's kingdom. God's word is the scriptures. You don't give the Bible money. That's not. That's not. It's incorrectly stated. So that's why I'm kind of thinking, Daniel, you've misinterpreted this or heard some of it wrong. I don't know. I hate to accuse your pastor of straight up craziness, but this, the way you presented this, it sounds like crazy. Okay, so yes, I tithe. And yes, you should put money where moth and rust don't destroy. You should put money towards things that matter in eternity, not things that matter short term. And retirement compared to eternity is short term. And the Bible says you should save for your needs. In the house of the wise are stores of choice, food and oil. The diligent prosper. These are actual scriptures from the Bible that I just quoted. And so wise people save money for a rainy day. They save money for purchases, and they save money in our society to retire with dignity so they don't have someone else having to take care of them. They don't become a charity case of the government or. Or a charity case of their church because they took care of themselves. They were wise, they were diligent, and they prospered. And in the house of the wise are stores of choice, food and oil. So the Bible very clearly teaches to tithe, to invest money into God's kingdom where moth and rust does not destroy. And the Bible teaches to save and invest. God. It is the Lord your God, it says in Deuteronomy, that gives you the power to build wealth. Hmm. How is that consistent with give it all to the church and don't save any for retirement? It's not consistent. That's, as you said in the opening part on this, not biblical. Okay, so this sounds like a money grab, the way you presented it, but that could be that it's how it felt to you and you changed the words around to match your feeling. I don't know what was really said by church leadership here. I know what you say they said. And again, I have to go on that because I don't. But I don't know many churches that would say this. I agree with that. And we Work with tens of thousands of churches across America and almost none of them say something like this. This is. If someone's actually saying this, it's probably some kind of sick, toxic, little small church. There's something going on that's wrong. If they're actually saying this, Give us all the money, don't save anything for retirement and God will take care of you. That is not what the Bible says. It doesn't say that. And so we're not going there. But do I believe in tithing? Yes. Do I believe in giving to eternity? Yes. Do I believe giving to eternity is more important than saving for retirement? Yes. But it's also important that you do both. According to God's love letter to me, which is called the Bible, My heavenly Father, which if we being evil, know how to give our kids good gifts, how much more? So our Father in heaven, our Father says that loves us, that the diligent prosper and that in the house of the wise are stores of choice, food and oil. Wise people save money. Diligent people prosper. It's the Lord your God that gives you the power to build wealth. This is all from his mouth, not from your preacher's mouth. And so that's what you can measure this stuff against is figure out, okay, to what extent is church leadership out of line with what the scripture says. And if they're too far out of line and it seems to be self serving, that's a disqualifier as a place to go.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

You need to leave.

[B]

That's right. Full stop that.

[A]

You know, you don't hang out in a place that's got, you know, they're trying to milk the cows every Sunday.

[B]

That's manipulative.

[A]

Trying to shear the sheep every Sunday.

[B]

That's right. It's evil.

[A]

That's just nuts. So, but is it, Is it wise? And I wish more pastors would do a better job of teaching the importance of giving versus consumption because it's better for you. If you're listening to me, you will have a better life if you consume less. As an American and we consume massive amounts in this country, we spend more on our dogs and cats than most people in other countries spend raising their children.

[B]

Now you've gone and stepped in it.

[A]

Yeah, I know, I did. Literally. And so no pun intended there. And I've got a dog that I like more than most humans, but that doesn't matter. I mean, we consume. And I'd love for us all to talk about consuming a little less and being a lot more generous. It was just a couple of percentage points. You could shake this entire country up in ways that would blow your freaking mind if we said, okay, I'm going to cut back on PET and Christmas and Halloween by 5%. You can fund entire children's hospitals for two years with that amount of money. It's hundreds of millions of dollars. Would I love preachers to talk more about that and more about giving into the kingdom of God and the work in the charitable work? Yes, but I don't want you doing it this way. If this guy's really doing this, I'm gonna call him out, say, no, honey, you're not following the word of God, and I'll challenge you on that. And I actually know what I'm talking about, and you don't want to get an argument with me on this. It's the only thing I've studied for the last 40 years. I actually know what I'm doing. This is the Ramsey Show. Why refi Refinances delinquent private student loans for struggling borrowers. Learn more at Y r e f y.com Ramsey.