"This Is Starting To Scare Me"

Summary

The Ramsey Show Highlights – "This Is Starting To Scare Me" (15 Dec 2025)

Episode Overview

In this gripping episode, Dave Ramsey and a co-host take an urgent call from a young married woman overwhelmed by staggering debt. The conversation explores the couple's financial predicament—primarily business debt incurred through poor decisions and misjudgments—and dives deep into emotional support, tough wisdom, and practical steps. The episode becomes a cautionary tale for listeners about business risks, the seduction of easy money, and how to handle the frightening reality of being in over your head.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Caller’s Story: Financial Emergency Unfolds

• Debt Breakdown: The caller and her husband, both 28, are facing around $1.3 million in total debt, including:
  • Home: $48,000 owed (house valued at $250,000)
  • Car Loan: $17,000
  • Credit Cards: $19,000 (split between personal and business)
  • Back Taxes: $30,000
  • Business Debt: About $1.2 million, mostly from an SBA loan (01:16–01:26)
• How It Happened:
  • Husband lost his job four years ago.
  • Started a summer camp in 2022, funding it with credit card debt.
  • Purchased another business's assets (event rentals) for $1.2 million—also using debt. (01:36–02:18)
  • The caller reveals deception surfaced after the purchase, including gross overvaluation (they overpaid by $400K) (05:09–05:27).

Economic Pressures and Emotional Toll

• Challenges:
  • Seasonal income (the summer camp makes ~$200,000/year)
  • Heavy monthly costs ($50,000 to service business debt) (05:39–05:47)
  • Struggling to keep businesses afloat as consumer spending patterns shift (04:06–04:32).
• Emotional Impact: The caller’s voice cracks with anxiety and shame, underscoring the psychological weight.

Dave’s Analysis & Advice

• Worst-Case Scenario Acceptance:
  • Dave shares his own bankruptcy experience to normalize the "rock bottom" scenario—lose everything, but keep your marriage and faith (05:59–06:45).
  • "I want you two to sit down tonight and accept that emotionally and look at each other...we got this together no matter what this is." (06:00)
• Immediate Tactical Advice:
  • Sell the business for whatever possible—even if it’s $800,000 (06:46–06:52).
  • Negotiate a short sale with the SBA, arguing the lender shares responsibility.
  • Prioritize paying IRS debt—"the IRS. They're not bankruptible. Before you pay anybody else, you pay the kgb. I mean, the IRS." (07:28)
  • If a short sale isn’t possible, sign for the remaining $400K and commit to “scratching through” with focused repayment (06:52–08:30).

Lessons for Listeners: Debt, Responsibility, & Redemption

• Lender’s Role: Irresponsible lending enabled the crisis—"Anybody that made this loan should be just lined up and shot. Oh, my God, this is ridiculous. Because they've screwed you in the process." (07:15)
• Personal Responsibility:
  • Even when lenders enable bad decisions, individuals must take responsibility for their own choices, as Dave admits having done “dumber” (09:41–10:32).
  • "I've got a PhD in dumb...I did them for dumb reasons. They did this for a dumb reason."
• Shame and Identity:
  • The sense of shame is natural, but must not become identity (11:16–11:47).
  • "The business plan was bad, the loan was dumb, the business idea was stupid. They cannot wear that as an identity."
• Warning Signs and Intuition:
  • Both Dave and the co-host stress that, in moments of rash decision-making, “you know this doesn’t feel right,” but many push forward anyway (12:00–13:24).
  • "There's a proverb that says the simple see trouble and move forward and the wise avoid it and take refuge, and the simple are punished for it." (12:00–12:09)
• Practical Application:
  • The story’s “teachable moment” is to heed warning signs, avoid rationalizing poor financial choices, and respect personal intuition.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dave Ramsey (Panicked Realization):
  "Okay, this is starting to scare me." (01:06)

• Dave Ramsey (SBA Loan Critique):
  "Who loaned you $1.2 million for that?"
  "The SBA."
  "I bet they did. I bet they did." (03:41–03:50)

• Dave Ramsey (Big Picture, Emotional Reassurance):
  "The worst case scenario is you lose the business, you lose the camp, and you start your lives fresh after a bankruptcy, and you hold on to each other, and you hold on to Jesus. And you hold on to your marriage. And so what?" (05:59–06:12)

• Dave Ramsey (On Responsibility and Learning):
  "I've got a PhD in dumb. So I have done dumb things. That does not make me dumb. I did them for dumb reasons. They did this for a dumb reason." (10:32–10:37)

• Dave Ramsey (Biggest Takeaway):
  "When you're in the middle doing something like this, you've done it, I've done it, and every one of you have done it. You have a moment of sanity while you're in the middle of this going, this doesn't feel right. And...you go past that moment and do it anyway. And 100% of the time, you knew better." (11:47–12:13)

• Dave Ramsey (Why the Lesson Matters):
  "The lesson is...when that bell starts ringing in your spirit, that's God's spirit saying don't do it fool. Turn on your heel and walk out of the room. Get run away..." (13:23)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:11–01:26] – Caller breaks down $1.3M in debt and components
• [02:18–03:12] – Discussion of business assets, structure, and how SBA loan was obtained
• [03:40–04:32] – Caller laments economic changes hampering their business
• [05:09–05:27] – The deception and overvaluation of purchased business assets revealed
• [05:39–05:59] – Current monthly debt service cost ($50K)
• [05:59–06:45] – Dave reassures and reframes worst-case scenario; emotional support
• [06:46–08:30] – Dave’s tactical steps: selling, negotiating with SBA, debt priorities
• [09:41–10:37] – On personal responsibility, learning from mistakes, and humility
• [11:16–12:13] – Shame, self-worth, and the lesson about intuition
• [13:21–13:23] – Warning about rationalizing and ignoring doubt

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Conclusion & Reflective Takeaway

The episode is a candid, emotional exploration of what happens when “the numbers don’t work” in business and life. Dave Ramsey provides not just a prescription for immediate next steps, but a deeper reflection on the perils of debt, the inevitability of mistakes, and the critical importance of learning from both.

Listeners are urged to learn from “that bell ringing in your spirit”—the intuition and discomfort that typically precedes a bad decision—and to avoid letting fear, shame, or rationalization rule. The show is a sobering but encouraging guide for anyone facing overwhelming financial stress, and a reminder that while the financial road can be treacherous, it is never too late to make hard, healing choices.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

If your private student loans are in default, you're not out of options. Go to yrefi.com Ramsey, my husband and I are in.

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

Oh, sorry. We're in way over our heads and so I'm just, I'm just looking for some help. We are about $1.3 million in debt. That's with two businesses, a house loan, a car loan, credit cards and back taxes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Pretty scary. How old are you guys?

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

We're both 28.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long you been married?

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

Six years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, cool. So how much do you owe on your home?

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

About 48,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what's it worth?

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

It's from, from last we had evaluated about 250.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So what do you, what do you owe on your cars?

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

17.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, this is starting to scare me. And what, what do you owe in taxes?

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

30,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay. I'm a little less scared than I was a minute ago. And that means we have a whole bunch of business debt.

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Like $1.2 million worth. Yes. What in the world? On what?

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

Well, so we got into business. My husband was fired from his job, what is it, four years ago, and found odd jobs, but was never able to find like stable full time work. But we ended up starting like a summer camp in 2022, but built that with credit card debt. And then to. It's going to sound really stupid, I know. To make that stable, we bought. It wasn't a business sale, was an asset sale. We bought basically another business's assets for the 1.2.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, so the business, the one business, not the summer camp, the summer camp has how much credit card debt?

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

That's the one that's got about. It's still got about like 15,000 out of the credit card debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I didn't get credit cards earlier. I just got cars and house earlier. Okay, so the credit card debt total is how much?

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

It's about 19. So 4,000 of that is ours.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you have one business, that's the problem?

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you were able to secure a loan as unemployed people with a summer camp for 1.2 million. Why? Who, who is dumb enough to make this loan?

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

I mean, the summer camp was doing extremely well.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, but the loan was not on the camp, was it?

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

No, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't own the land on the camp, do you?

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

No, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so basically you're renting a piece of ground in the summer, running a camp on it, and you make what kind of income on that?

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

That makes about $200,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And the business that you purchased, what was the assets?

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

It's. It's rentals. It's event rental. So it's like staging and life and audio visual and inflatables and all that kind of stuff.

[Co-host or Guest]

All the fun stuff for the camp.

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you borrowed 1.2. Who loaned you $1.2 million for that?

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

The SBA.

[Dave Ramsey]

I bet they did. I bet they did.

[Co-host or Guest]

Is the camp still operational?

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

Yes, ma'.

[Dave Ramsey]

Am.

[Co-host or Guest]

We.

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

We still do that every year.

[Co-host or Guest]

Is there a way that you can add things for the other seasons to earn quadruple the amount?

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

Right, yeah. I mean, that's. That's what we've been trying to do. It's just, we've. I mean, y' all know, like, we've hit a point in the economy where people are trying to figure out other solutions for fun stuff or childcare, you know, so they're trying not to spend as much. So we kind of are stuck with the businesses that everybody's trying to avoid.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not really. True. But in the situation as you are all in, being so overwhelmed, I can see how you could start to think that. Because when nothing goes right, Nothing goes right. When life looks like a country song, it just looks like a country song. Lots of people still renting kids stuff all over the place. The economy is quite booming in some areas, but so now you're just. The economics at your house suck, and so. I'm so sorry, honey. It's so scary. So scary. Okay. Is there any possibility of selling the first. The last business that you bought for anywhere near what you owe on it?

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

No, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

How do you know?

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

Because the more it was like the layers of an onion, the more we peeled back, the more we found the deception that you had overpaid. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Co-host or Guest]

By how much?

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

By like $400,000.

[Co-host or Guest]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Co-host or Guest]

Can I. How much does this cost you every month to pay the minimums on this.

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

For the business we have? It's. We're operating a cost of 50,000amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're not making that.

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

I mean, some months we are. Like, we're. Some months we are, but it's. Both of our businesses are very seasonal.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know. Here's the first thing. I was your age, been married, the distance of time when we went broke and lost everything and ended up bankrupt. Okay. So the first thing I want to tell you is the worst case scenario is you lose the business, you lose the camp, and you start your lives fresh after a bankruptcy, and you hold on to each other, and you hold on To Jesus. And you hold on to your marriage. And so what? Okay? Lots of people have gone broke. That's the worst case scenario. So I want you two to sit down tonight and accept that emotionally and look at each other and hold hands and say, we got this together no matter what this is. Because I don't right now see how you're getting out of this. But here's. Here's an idea. Okay?

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would sell it for whatever you can get for it. If you can get 800,000 for it, take it.

[Caller (Young Married Woman)]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

And go to the SBA and do a short sale. Hire an attorney and tell the SBA you get nothing. Honey, if you don't take this 800, because I'm walking and you're going to own a blow up inflatable, and the SBA is not in the inflatable business. And so you go to the bank and you say, we're going to do a short sale on this business because we got screwed. You participated in it because you idiots loaned us the money. And they are idiots. Anybody that made this loan should be just lined up and shot. Oh, my God, this is ridiculous. Because they've screwed you in the process. So, yeah, I'm going to short sell the business. If you can't short sell it, sign a note for the difference and scratch your way through that 400k making 200 and something. And you can bust through these other little debts and pay the stinking irs. They're not bankruptible. Before you pay anybody else, you pay the kgb. I mean, the irs. The rich rules over the poor and the borrower is slave to the lender. You don't think that's true? You talk to our last caller. She turned on when I turned on the phone. On. Put her on the air. She started crying. $1.2 million in debt on blow up jump houses. Good God. Wow. And then some of you want to call me up and tell me how debt is, how you go into business, because you have an idea that no one's ever done before. Like fried pickles. Well, there's a reason. There's a reason no one's done it before. So the more debt you're in, the more risk you take and the more you understand the slavery aspect. And she's sitting there with some basic income coming in and nowhere near enough to even service the debt, much less everything else. And she can see the writing on the wall. It's gonna. I mean, I don't know if that kid makes it or not. They'll make it, but I don't know if they make it without bankrupting. I hope they can if they sell it. And if they sell it, they claw their way through the 400,000, making 200,000. They can do that. And they clean up the other a hundred thousand. That's $500,000 in debt. Making 200 plus. You can do that. That's very doable.

[Co-host or Guest]

But my thing is the fact that somebody lent them the money and that when you're that young, you do you think that if somebody will give you the money, that means you're good for it?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, that. That's like.

[Co-host or Guest]

Yeah, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But I mean, when you're first starting and a lot of things, you do dumb things. I mean, it's like people think, if I have checks left, there's check money in the checking.

[Co-host or Guest]

That's right. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, so then, of course, no one even knows what a check is anymore. Choke doesn't land anymore. But, yeah, it's. Yeah, you've got a responsibility to not. To not get yourself in these kinds of things. And here's the thing. He lost his job. They run the summer camp. Everything's going good. And then there was some kind of a desperation or a greed thing that kicked in that blinds you to doing a deal that's that dumb. Because that deal, by any measure, is dumb. I mean, I didn't say the people are dumb. I've done dumber. I was $4 million in debt, $3 million in debt. So they only did 1 million. So I've got a PhD in dumb. So I have done dumb things. That does not make me dumb. I did them for dumb reasons. They did this for a dumb reason. And oh, my goodness, folks. So my point is the teachable moment, when you listen to the show, you can just get entertained and go, that's ridiculous. And that's crazy. And how sad for those people or how weird is that whole thing? And you can kind of get that, you know, Jerry Springer effect off the show if you want, or you could actually try to learn something.

[Co-host or Guest]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the lesson in that? Well, the lesson is, after losing that job, that guy's heart was broken, and he said, I'm never going to be there again. And he read some story about some guy becoming a millionaire after borrowing money on TikTok, and he went and borrowed money out to his ears, and now he can't breathe. And his poor little wife is so scared she can't breathe. And that's exactly how Sharon ramsay sounded at 28 years old.

[Co-host or Guest]

Oh, yeah, but there's another. The other lesson for him, and for her too, because she was part of it, is exactly what you said. When you do something like that, Dave, the shame. But the shame of it, because you think I'm dumb, You think I'm stupid. It's my fault we're in this. But they've got to remember going through this, that the business plan was bad, the loan was dumb, the business idea was stupid. They're not. They cannot wear that as an identity.

[Dave Ramsey]

The thing you need to. The takeaway for all of you listening is this. When you're in the middle doing something like this, you've done it, I've done it, and every one of you have done it. You have a moment of sanity while you're in the middle of this going, this doesn't feel right.

[Co-host or Guest]

Oh, yeah, you get that, rid of.

[Dave Ramsey]

That and you go past that moment and do it anyway. And 100% of the time, you knew better. Every one of us, there's a proverb that says the simple see trouble and move forward and the wise avoid it and take refuge, and the simple are punished for it. And that's exactly what that is. Because when you're doing something like this, when I did something like this, I was simple. It was not wisdom, it was a fool.

[Co-host or Guest]

But you had that moment. You had that moment.

[Dave Ramsey]

I was like, I know this is out of control, but I'm, I can handle it. There's an arrogance, agreed, a desperation that causes you to plow through it. And that's a simpleton. It's a simpleton. It's not a wise person, not biblically wise. It's a biblical fool. And you don't want to be a Bible fool. That's a real dumb person. That's really dumb. And so, you know, but I've done it. I was every one of those things in proverbs that says you're a fool if you did this. I did everyone, you know, and so that way I don't have to do them ever again. And now I can be the wise person. I stood on those books. So. Yeah, but, but it's, you know, people, you know, when you're getting ready to sign for that brand new car that you cannot afford, you got a $400 a month raise and you're taking out a twelve hundred dollar car payment to celebrate.

[Co-host or Guest]

And if you have to start rationalizing it, that's how you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you know when you're doing it. You know, you're sitting in the office that that this doesn't feel right. Your heart rate is there's some. Your spouse is looking at you like you've lost your dadgum mind because you have and you try to tell them how smart you are and that we're going ahead anyway. You just don't understand because the way you were brought up you sound like your mother and you go straight past it and straight into the dadgum fire and man that poor girl. That's exactly what they did and it's what you've done out there if you're listening to this. So don't be too quick to make fun of her and don't be too quick to make fun of me. I've done it too. But listen, the lesson is when that bell starts ringing in your spirit, that's God's spirit saying don't do it fool. Turn on your heel and walk out of the room. Get run away Yrefi Refinances Defaulted private student loans for Struggling borrowers learn [e-mail] Ramsey.