You Know How Dysfunctional This Sounds?

Summary

The Ramsey Show Highlights

Episode Title: You Know How Dysfunctional This Sounds?
Date: August 25, 2025
Hosts: Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruze
Guest Caller: Emily

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Overview

This episode centers on a caller, Emily, who seeks advice about financially assisting her aging mother—specifically, buying her a house—without damaging her marriage, which already has tension around money and boundaries. Emily considers complex financial maneuvers (tapping her 401k and using a trust) due to a lack of support from her husband, prompting Ramsey and Cruze to confront deeper marital and family issues beyond the immediate money question.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Emily’s Dilemma (00:06–01:32)

• Emily’s Background:

  • Invested early in her career, married later, now in her early 50s.
  • Her mother, in her 70s, wants to downsize and retire but lacks sufficient resources.
  • Emily wants to pull money from her 401k to buy her mother a house, possibly via a trust, so her husband can't "kick her out" if something happens.
  • Emily’s husband has repeatedly refused all options (moving in together, buying a new house, buying a home for her mother).

• Marital Dynamics:

  • Emily labels her husband as “financially selfish” and struggles because she loves his children/grandchildren.
  • Acknowledges dysfunction in their marriage:

    “It's so dysfunctional. He has so many red flags and I can't do anything because I'm in love with his children because I don't have any children.” — Emily (01:35)

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Ramsey’s Response — Naming the Dysfunction (01:32–02:01; 02:38–03:02)

• Direct Confrontation:

  • Dave bluntly calls out the dysfunction in Emily’s plan and marriage:

    "You know how dysfunctional this sounds?" — Dave Ramsey (01:32)
    "How you're trying to accomplish it is whacked." — Dave Ramsey (02:38)

• Financial Principles:

  • Taking money from a 401k before 59½ means a 10% penalty plus taxes—like paying “35% interest.”
  • Absolutely rejects the idea:

    “No, that would be stupid. We’re not doing that.” — Dave Ramsey (02:42)

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Healthy Boundaries & Marital Honesty (03:04–04:04)

• On the Husband’s Boundaries:

  • Dave reframes the husband's refusal as possibly rational boundaries, not just selfishness:

    “It is possible that he doesn’t want her to live with you because he doesn’t like her. That’s not necessarily being selfish. It’s just having good boundaries.” — Dave Ramsey (03:14)

• Importance of Transparency:

  • Stresses the danger of deceiving a spouse on major purchases:

    “The other thing you don’t want to do is you don’t want to be deceptive with your spouse. That’s not ever going to lead to a positive situation.” — Dave Ramsey (03:37)

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Exploring Mom’s Financial Options (04:04–04:45)

• Mom’s Home Value:

  • Mom's house could sell for $280k–$300k, with $80k still owed—giving some equity.
  • Dave and Emily clarify that, upon downsizing, Mom might access around $200k for living or investment.

• Mom’s Income:

  • Mom, age 72, still works, collects some Social Security, but with limited funds due to insufficient spousal support.

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Rachel Cruze Reflects on Deeper Issues (04:45–05:22)

• Concern Beyond Money:
  • Rachel is “a little speechless,” acknowledging deep relational pain:

    “I’m just concerned for the health of obviously your marriage, but just your enjoyment of life... I don’t want you to divorce him, but I do want to see that part of your life healed." — Rachel Cruze (04:50)

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The Right (and Wrong) Way Forward (05:22–08:26)

• Re-framing the Conversation:

  • Dave recommends cooperation with her husband rather than hiding money or decisions:

    “A positive way to approach the relationship in the marriage. Honey, this really means a lot to me... help me figure out a way to do this... Instead of like, I’m going to hide this from him.” — Dave Ramsey (06:47) “If you’re going to do all that crap, you should be divorced.” — Dave Ramsey (07:14)

• On Respecting Limits and Reality:

  • Rachel notes that hard “no’s” from a spouse might simply reflect their limits:

    “They may not even have the money to go otherwise.” — Rachel Cruze (07:14)

• On Family Dynamics:

  • Both suggest that if a spouse has poor relations with an in-law, giving financial support is doubly difficult.
  • Root cause may be more about relationships than resources:

    “I want to get to the root of why their relationship is so terrible.” — Rachel Cruze (08:00)

• Final Advice:

  • The plan to hide or unilaterally control money is strongly discouraged.
  • Dave concludes:

    “What I will tell you is, if I were in your shoes, I would work on working with your husband and finding a way to do it by him. Understanding this is very important to you.” — Dave Ramsey (08:26)

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “You know how dysfunctional this sounds?” — Dave Ramsey (01:32)
• “It’s so dysfunctional. He has so many red flags...” — Emily (01:35)
• “How you're trying to accomplish it is whacked.” — Dave Ramsey (02:38)
• “No, that would be stupid. We’re not doing that.” — Dave Ramsey (02:42)
• “It is possible that he doesn’t want her to live with you because he doesn’t like her. That’s not necessarily being selfish. It’s just having good boundaries.” — Dave Ramsey (03:14)
• “The other thing you don’t want to do is you don’t want to be deceptive with your spouse. That’s not ever going to lead to a positive situation.” — Dave Ramsey (03:37)
• “I’m just concerned for the health of obviously your marriage, but just your, just your enjoyment of life...” — Rachel Cruze (04:50)
• “If you’re going to do all that crap, you should be divorced.” — Dave Ramsey (07:14)
• “I would not do your plan, Emily. I’ll say that much.” — Rachel Cruze (08:18)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:06–01:51 — Emily presents her situation and marital tensions
• 01:32–02:01 — Dave’s initial reaction; calls out dysfunction
• 02:38–03:02 — Dave reiterates financial consequences of the 401k plan
• 03:14–03:37 — Reframing husband’s stance as boundaries, not selfishness
• 03:37–03:59 — Warning against deception in marriage
• 04:04–04:45 — Assessing mom’s finances and options
• 04:45–05:22 — Rachel expresses deeper concern for Emily’s wellbeing
• 05:22–08:26 — Guidance on pursuing unity and healthy decision-making in marriage

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Tone and Style

• The tone is characteristically direct, candid, and sometimes blunt (especially from Dave), balanced with empathy from Rachel.
• The advice consistently prioritizes honesty, healthy relationships, and principled financial behavior over short-term fixes.

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Summary

In less than ten minutes, this podcast episode transcends a typical financial question to address the complex intersection of family, boundaries, and marriage. While Emily’s motivation to help her mother is affirmed as noble, her methods and attempts to sidestep her husband are called out as fundamentally unhealthy—both financially and relationally. The core message: Financial solutions can’t fix relational dysfunction; honesty and cooperation within the marriage must come first.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Emily]

Okay, well, here's my situation. I started my job at 19 and I invested in the 401k that the company has. And I married my husband when I was in my late 30s. Now I'm in my early 50s. My mom wants to downsize, but she. I want to buy her a house so she could free up the equity in her house and be able to retire because she's in her mid-70s. And my husband, I want to do it to where I want to pull it out of my 401k and buy this. But I also want to not stir up problems with my current husband, you know, because he's financially selfish. He likes to spend the money he doesn't. I asked if she can move in with him with us. He said no. I said, let's go find another house big enough for all of us. He said no. I said then fine, I'm going to buy a house for her. He said no. And I really want to do this for her so she can retire with her. She could, she could retire. I don't want her have to work for the rest of her life. So I want to know how I can do this. If I can pull money from my 401k, put it into her trust and then buy the house through her trust so it's protected because I would hate for something to happen to me and then him kick her out of a home that I purchased for.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know how dysfunctional this sounds?

[Emily]

It's so dysfunctional. He has so many red flags and I can't do anything because I'm in love with his children because I don't have any children. I'm in love with his children and his grandchildren. So. So that's where we're at.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. Well, I think what you're trying to accomplish is noble. How you're trying to accomplish it is whacked.

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[Dave Ramsey]

How you're trying to accomplish it is whacked.

[Emily]

Yeah, I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so number one, if you pull money out of your 401k and you're in your 50s, you're going to pay a 10% penalty plus your tax rate. So it's going to be like borrowing money at 35% interest. No, that would be stupid. We're not doing that. Not borrowing money. You wouldn't get a mortgage at 35% interest to buy your mom a house. That's dumb.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're not doing that. That's.

[Emily]

That's okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your husband's smart. That's not being selfish. It is possible that he doesn't want to her to live with you because he doesn't like her.

[Emily]

Yeah. Oh, that's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not necessarily being selfish. It's just having good boundaries.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, I like Winston Cruz, Rachel's husband, a lot, but I don't think he would let me live with them.

[Emily]

Yeah. I would let his dad live with us.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Emily]

No, I get it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, that's okay. That's not. It doesn't make your husband easy.

[Rachel Cruze]

Selfish. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right off the bat, there's a possible other scenarios. And the other thing you don't want to do is you don't want to be deceptive with your spouse. That's not ever going to lead to a positive situation. Right. That's going to end up in ashes, particularly on a huge purchase. Okay.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So her home is worth what.

[Emily]

She could probably sell it for. I don't know, 280, maybe 300.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's paid for.

[Emily]

No, it's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

She.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does she owes?

[Emily]

80,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So she could get a couple hundred grand to go do something with if she downsized. Instead, you were wanting her to invest that to live on. How old is your mom?

[Emily]

72.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Is she still working?

[Emily]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And she's taking Social Security?

[Emily]

Probably, yes. Not much, though. My dad, they own businesses my entire life, and so he didn't think to pay in for her, but he made sure to pay in for himself.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Man, Emily, I don't know. I'm a little speechless. I'm not gonna lie.

[Emily]

It is.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well. And I just. I'm like, I. I'M just concerned for the health of obviously your marriage, but just your, just, just your enjoyment of life. I'm like, you know, when you're in a situation that you feel it sounds like you're staying in because of his kids and you love his kids even though you could still have a relationship with them even if this marriage, you know, didn't work. I don't want, I don't want you to divorce him, but I do want to see that part of your life healed.

[Dave Ramsey]

The proper answer now you, the way you presented it was, he said no. He said no. He said no, that's not a problem.

[Emily]

He doesn't even want to mow her yard. He'll go and mow his 90 year old father's lawn, but he won't mow hers.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that's irrelevant to this discussion. Okay, Yeah, I might not want to mow her yard either. She might bitch at me.

[Emily]

Yeah. So that's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, there may be legitimate reasons for that too. So, but aside from that, the he, it's possible that he's looking at and saying, okay, moving in. He may have not done a good job explaining why he said no or you're not giving us that information. One of the two. But he may have said no. I don't want her to live with us. I don't think that that's going to go well relationally. She and I don't get along very well. That's a good reason for a no, no, I don't think you ought to buy her a house coming out of your 401k. And by the way, Emily, I just told you that. Okay, I told you why, but I also told you no. And so, you know, I could be painted with the same brush after this call. So, you know, I'm going to go back to what Rachel said. I'm going to go back to. Let's start solving this within the framework of a positive relationship and a marriage. A positive way to approach the relationship in the marriage. Honey, this really means a lot to me. I understand you don't want to live with us. I understand that. Okay, that's fair. I understand you don't want me take the money out of the 401. And Dave explained to me that it's a huge cost. And so now I understand why you don't want to do that. But this is very important to me and I do have some money here and, you know, help me figure out a way to do this. And instead of like, I'm going to hide this from him. And I'm going to put it in a trust where he can't do something about it later. And if you're going to do all that crap, you should be divorced.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, well, you're just. I mean, you're enemies at that point. I mean, there's nothing about your working together. It's just. I don't know. And my question would be, too. I mean, they may not even have the money to go otherwise. Yeah, they may not be able to. The only way you're able to is to cash out your pocket.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a possibility, too. I mean, Sharon may want to do something, Winston may. You may want to do something. And Winston looks at you and says, no, we don't have the money. We don't have the money. Yes, without cashing in a 401 million. And no, I don't want Dave living with us. And, you know, that's okay. I mean, these are good. That's all fair.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's a little bit of what I'm like. I'm trying to discern to help Emily. Cause she's obviously one that called who wanted it. But I feel like everything that was said.

[Dave Ramsey]

His answers may have come more.

[Rachel Cruze]

To him of like, yeah, there's something here. Now, granted, we want to help. Help your parents. I mean, there's a level of honoring them that is wonderful. So I want to get to the root of why their relationship is so terrible. Right. If Winston and Mom had a terrible relationship, you know, there's something.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're gonna have a hard time talking Winston and giving money then. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Right. So I don't know. Yeah. I would not do your plan, Emily. I'll say that much.

[Dave Ramsey]

I didn't hear a way for you to do this. I can't help you with this. What I will tell you is, if I were in your shoes, I would work on working with your husband and finding a way to do it by him. Understanding this is very important to you. Create your free every dollar budget today. The simplest way to budget for your life.