A $60,000 Mistake Turned Into a Wake-Up Call

Summary

The Ramsey Show — "A $60,000 Mistake Turned Into a Wake-Up Call"

Date: November 3, 2025
Hosts: Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw
Episode Theme:
Helping listeners take control of their financial lives—no matter what mistakes or emotional hurdles they face—through advice, personal stories, and guidance on navigating debt, relationships, and big financial decisions.

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show spotlights the profound emotional side of personal finance, tackling debt, mistakes, and the process of building financial stability. Through listener calls and candid discussion, Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw address real-world scenarios—emphasizing that your feelings (shame, fear, frustration) can be as much of a barrier to wealth-building as numbers on a spreadsheet. The hosts draw heavily from Jade’s own journey out of massive debt and tease her new book focused on the emotional aspects of money.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. Turning a $60,000 Mistake into a Wake-Up Call

(01:10–08:31)

Caller: Jack from Indianapolis

• Jack bought a $60,000 RV at age 20 with a 15-year loan at 18% interest, hoping to eventually use it to save for a house.
• The reality set in: he was paying $800/month in interest, with very little on principal. After offloading other personal, student, and credit card debt, he’s left with the depreciating RV.
• Jack’s private sale listing is $38,000, but he owes $48,000—a $10,000 deficit remains.

Jade’s Advice:

• Explore a personal loan or credit union to cover the $10k shortfall—“There’s not a worse loan than the one you have.”
• Time is not on Jack’s side, as the RV keeps depreciating. Cut losses; don’t try to rent it.
• Once downsized to a $10,000 debt, attack it with new increased income (~$4,000–6,000/month as a truck driver).

Notable Quotes:

• “For anybody listening…we’re going down, people. We’re going from $48k down to $10k…” — Jade (05:42)
• “Don’t get the dealership markups. Don’t get the warranty stuff. Don't buy new. Like, ask someone older than you.” — Jack (07:04)

Memorable Moment:

• Ken quips, “By Ray Charles. ‘Hit the Road, Jack’…that’s what he’s saying to debt.” (08:12)

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2. The Emotional Side of Debt: Jade’s Story

(10:33–15:58)

Segment Focus: Jade shares an “I’ve had it” moment from her journey paying off $500,000 in debt alongside her husband, Sam.

• Calls from creditors were relentless; emotional exhaustion set in.
• In frustration, Jade nearly gave their rent money to a credit card company just to stop the calls.
• A moment of pause and financial “audit” revealed they weren’t following the Baby Steps correctly (not making minimum payments on all debts before attacking the smallest).
• Realization: Emotional storms are normal; sometimes, frustration means something in the process is off.

Notable Quotes:

• “Sometimes you just kind of want to throw up your hands and go, ‘Is this going to be worth the trouble?’” — Jade (11:34)
• “When you feel those moments of frustration…stop and go, ‘What am I missing?’” — Jade (14:38)

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3. Why Emotions Matter in Money

(15:58–19:08)

• Frustration and anger are common emotions from callers and those on the debt-free journey.
• Many debtors feel anger: “I did everything right… why am I up to my eyeballs in debt and stress?” — Jade (16:15)
• Key to overcoming: Endurance and process are essential—embrace “marathon” thinking.

Notable Quotes:

• “Winning with money isn’t just about process; it’s also winning with the emotions that come with this process.” — Ken (17:22)
• “Endurance produces maturity. That’s truly what the Bible says.” — Jade (17:48)

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4. Real-Life Money Dilemmas—Listener Calls

(Sample of key calls and advice throughout the episode)

a) Supporting an Unstable Ex & Setting Boundaries

(22:09–31:41)

• Elijah’s ex is pregnant and has two kids by others; she wants money, not co-parenting.
• Ken: “You’ve dodged a bullet emotionally, but your only responsibility is fair, judge-ordered child support.”
• Jade: Be fair, calculate based on income, but don’t let yourself be manipulated.

b) The Unprofitable Side Hustle

(33:06–42:30)

• Taylor’s husband started a home inspection business; significant upfront and ongoing costs, little revenue.
• Jade & Ken: Do a break-even analysis, give it time, but set a timeline for profitability and communicate feelings about risk tolerances.

c) Debt Relapse, Shame, and Breaking the Cycle

(44:11–52:34)

• Dayton paid off $22k, then after marriage, career changes, & home purchases, accrued $103k.
• Feels intense shame and fear facing the budget.
• Jade: “You deserve to feel good about the life you’re providing for your family.” Ken: Use negative emotion as fuel to never return to debt; remember how bad it feels.

d) Stuck in Analysis Paralysis: Massive Savings, No Direction

(122:50–127:41)

• Ryan, 34, lives with parents, has $180k saved, no debt, investing above 15%.
• Hosts urge: Flee the nest, find an apartment, use new expenses to set a true emergency fund, keep the rest liquid for a future house.

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5. The Power & Pitfalls of Credit Cards

(87:43–95:43)

Caller: Colleen wants to move from using credit cards for everything (always paid off monthly) to living on cash.

• Jade: You’re “a month behind.” To transition, budget accurately, pay off the existing credit card balance with savings, and then live from income only.
• Ken: Responsible isn’t the same as strategic. “Strategy is what we teach.”

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6. Buying a House as a Single Mom in an Expensive Market

(108:07–117:26)

Caller: Megan, single mom, aggressively saving for a home but realistic timelines are long with high local prices.

• Jade: “You are correct; it does provide security to have a house…The hardest part is readjusting expectations, and there’s always fear: ‘What if I wait too long?’”
• Ken: Turn over every stone (cheaper options, land for her tiny house, “fixer-uppers”) but don’t jump for deed-restricted housing with excessive limits.

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7. Emotional Intelligence & Money: Jade’s New Book

Scattered throughout (esp. 19:44, 55:38, 121:45+)

• Jade announces her new book: What No One Tells You About Money: The Real Key to Getting Unstuck from Someone Who’s Been There.
• Focus: The emotional reality of money management and why so many smart people struggle.
• “The plan’s only 50% of the equation…the rest is emotional.” — Jade (57:18)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Few people get out unscathed when you walk into the real world… That’s how we learn.” — Jade to Jack (07:28)
• “Our emotions can make us want to give up. They can kind of throw a wrench in the whole thing and everything just grinds to a halt.” — Jade (14:29)
• “You have to embrace endurance because endurance produces maturity.” — Jade (17:48)
• “You’re not a deadbeat…you made a bad financial decision. Welcome to the club, pal.” — Ken (52:34)
• “We want you to feel like you’re the one in control. Do it because it makes sense to you, not because Jade and Ken said so.” — Jade (95:07)
• “Fear is rarely about what’s happening in the moment. It’s about our perceived outcome in the future.” — Jade reading from her book (120:15)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:10] – Jack’s $60,000 RV loan debacle
• [10:33] – Jade’s “I’ve had it” debt moment
• [15:58] – Emotions on the debt-free journey
• [22:09] – Elijah: supporting an expecting ex
• [33:06] – Taylor’s unprofitable home inspection business
• [44:11] – Dayton’s debt relapse & breaking the shame cycle
• [87:43] – Colleen ditches credit cards for cash
• [108:07] – Megan: single mom’s homeownership goals
• [122:50] – Ryan’s cash hoard, stuck at home with parents

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Episode Tone & Style

• Encouraging, empathetic, direct—emphasis on practical steps and emotional validation
• Lots of humor and light teasing, especially between Ken and Jade
• Frequent references to the Baby Steps and classic Ramsey advice, but with a special focus on the emotional experience behind financial decisions

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Major money mistakes are not the end—they can be the wake-up call that sets you on a new course.
• Endurance and process matter, but your emotional health and habits are just as crucial to winning with money.
• Validate your emotions (shame, anger, fear, disappointment) but don’t let them derail you—use them as fuel for positive change.
• You are not alone in your struggles; every story, no matter how messy, is an opportunity to learn and grow.
• Practical steps only work if your heart and mind are on board—embrace the emotional journey as much as the financial one.

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Related Resources

• Jade Warshaw’s What No One Tells You About Money (Available for pre-order at ramseysolutions.com)
• Ramsey Solutions’ EveryDollar app (budgeting and new coaching features discussed throughout)

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End of Episode.

Transcript

[A]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[B]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show alongside the fabulous Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number is 888-852-25-88825, 5225. All right, we're gonna get to your calls. They're coming up very soon. Really fun story from my colleague here. You may know her journey. She and Sam are hubs. Paid off, half a million dollars in debt. She gets you, folks. If you're in debt, she gets you. She really does. Fun story. I asked her to share. I've gotten to know her and Sam very well. And so that's coming up. You don't want to miss that. Those of you who are kind of on that edge today, you're going, can I do this? Can I make it?

[C]

You can make it.

[B]

She's going to tell you how it's going to be fun. But first, Jack is up in Indianapolis, Indiana. Jack, how can we help today?

[D]

Hey, guys, thank you so much for taking my call. I. I bought a RV for 60,000 on a 15 year loan at 18% interest.

[C]

Wow, why'd you do that?

[D]

I'm realizing how bad of a decision it was. It was to live in, to save up eventually for a house. And I'm realizing like the interest is 800amonth on just interest. My goodness, only 50 bucks goes to the principal. And I'm realizing It'll be like 16 months before I even scratch the surface under what I borrowed. So I was wondering, because obviously I want to get out of it now. I started the baby steps. All I had was like a thousand personal loan, 2000 person loan. I had some student loans, I had some credit cards, but I. I only made 2,000amonth when I bought it. So I don't even know how I got approved for it.

[C]

Right.

[E]

One by one.

[D]

And I got rid of everything except for the camper. My income is about 4,000amonth now. Okay, so where are you living?

[C]

I'm.

[D]

I got a job as a truck driver, so. In the truck.

[C]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

Are you okay?

[C]

You don't, you don't sound okay.

[B]

You don't sound very okay to me. Maybe it's just your voice, but I'm just sensing.

[D]

I'm really nervous. I'm really nervous. I just.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

Yeah, no, I'm good.

[B]

Okay, great.

[C]

Okay. So you've got. Did I understand correctly when you said you got rid of all the other debt except this rv?

[D]

Yeah, everything.

[C]

Okay, good.

[D]

I did make a little mistake. I know you're supposed to save a thousand first, and with the first thousand, I put it towards the debt.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

But, yes, I have my $1,000. Everything else is gone.

[C]

Good.

[D]

Except for this camper.

[C]

And you still owe 60. What's it worth if you were to sell it?

[D]

The dealership offered 31.

[C]

Oh, Lordy. But what if you were to sell it? Private sale. Have you looked into that?

[D]

I have it listed for 38, and I've been trying to call the show for a couple months now. So I owe 48 on it now.

[C]

You owe 48 on it now. And you could sell it for 31. 38.

[B]

38. I just got it listed at deal.

[C]

So you're a 10. It's a $10,000 deficit there. What keeps you from going down to a credit union or going down to a bank or getting any kind of loan to clear this out? Why don't we do that?

[D]

I canceled my credit cards when I removed them, and it brought my credit score down pretty low.

[C]

What about a credit union? Have you gone into a bank to see? Because at this point, here's my thinking on this, my rationale is there's not a worse loan than the one you have. And this is going. You're going down. You're going from $48,000 of debt to $10,000 of debt. I'm going to take that deal every time, even if. Even if the terms aren't great? Well, yeah, because you're gonna knock it out. You make 4,000 bucks a month. You knocked out the other debt. Why can't you knock out this $10,000 of debt very quickly?

[D]

That's true. I was. Because I was trying to rent it as well, to see if I could try to get money out of it.

[C]

But every moment you wait, it's dropping in value because you're in such a bad loan. Right. The interest loan is $800 a month. So you got time is not on your side, my friend.

[B]

Listen, we're coming to you from the Fairwinds Credit union studio. I'd call our friends at Fairwinds and say, hey, I was just on the show, which I did, and here's my situation, and I've made progress. Well, you guys help me out, and if they can help you out, they will. And into your. Into Jade's point, then if we can sell this thing and then they take over the loan for the minimal amount you're going to have left, you can knock that out. So you want to get rid of this because this is a depreciating asset. That's why she's telling you that. Got to get rid of it.

[C]

I would only and for anybody listening who's like Jay told him to get a loan. She told him to take it out on a credit card. She told him to take a bad loan. We're going down, people. We're going from 48 down to 10. We're not going up. He's not taking a loan to go into debt. He's taking a lesser loan to get out of debt. So that's the difference there. For anybody who's trying to clock something that's not there.

[B]

Yeah. And now what is this? Is this truck job, what's your opportunity to make more money than the 4,000amonth?

[D]

Well, in the beginning it was like that's what I was getting because I was in training. I also do all the services on his trucks because he owns, he owns a trucking company. So I do all the mechanic work on them for side money on cash when I am at Indianapolis because it is long haul.

[B]

So as we look forward, how much more additional money can you make then than the 4,000?

[D]

4 to 6,000amonth? I'd say take home.

[B]

Alright. And long term, is this a great opportunity for you to get to the six figure range?

[D]

It seems like it, yeah.

[B]

Okay. All right, well, what's the lesson here that you've learned? You know, because a lot of times we'll teach out of this. I want people to hear from you today because you're sitting in this calling us with a pit in your stomach. So what's the lesson for everybody else?

[D]

Don't get the dealership markups. Don't get the warranty stuff. Don't buy new. Like ask someone older than you. Yeah, you know, I haven't. Yeah, it's a. I'm, I'm definitely not doing that anymore.

[B]

Yeah. How old are you, Jack?

[D]

I just turned 20.

[B]

20 years of age.

[C]

You learned a great lesson at a young age, my friend.

[D]

I wish, I wish it didn't cost 60,000.

[C]

Yeah, that's all right. But it's a good lesson to learn. Hey, no one gets out. Let me not no one. Few people get out unscathed when you walk into the real world, right? You get out of college, you start your life as an adult. Few Jack, get out of this without making major mistakes. That's how we learn and for you. I want you to look at this. Don't look at it as, oh, my gosh, my mistake, I ruined my life. Just look at it as some research you did. You did a little bit of research and you found out that buying an RV to live in or buying anything that goes down in value is not a good idea. Now you can stick that in your pocket and keep it as a knowledge base for later.

[B]

Yeah. I love it. Makes me think of the old song.

[C]

What?

[B]

By Ray Charles. Hit the road, Jack and don't you come back no more, no more, no more Hit the road, Jack. That's what he's saying to debt.

[C]

That's good.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Come on.

[B]

You know, sometimes I think of these old school things. Now if Rachel were next to me, she'd have no idea what I'm talking about.

[C]

I thought you were going to say something totally different.

[B]

No. Hit the road, Jack.

[C]

I like it.

[B]

He got on the road and the 18 wheeler he's getting after it. He's 20 years of age. He learned his lesson. I love his lessons. He did a great job, America. You heard Jack. And he's going to be okay. He's going to do great. He's only 20 years of age. He learned a big lesson. Now he's on the road to being debt free.

[F]

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[C]

It.

[F]

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[B]

Ken Coleman of Jade Warshaw hanging out with you today. And Jade, Stacy and I, we've gotten to be really good friends with you and Sam. And as we get to know you guys, your story is so powerful. And. And it occurred to me today that there are a lot of people, people coming in all the time. We have some people that are, you know, baby step one, they're just trying to get $1,000. That's a scramble.

[C]

It's tough.

[B]

There are some people that are in baby step two, and they're looking at that mountain, and they're just trying to get some momentum. And it just occurred to me that you've got some incredible stories, not the least of which is from the mountain that you climbed.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

$500,000 you2 went through. We were. We were at dinner recently, and we were talking about some of the crazy things and crazy stories.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I want just to bring it in, because story is what connects to people.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Take us to one of maybe the more memorable moments from your journey of paying off that kind of money. What comes to mind?

[C]

I mean, if I really think about it, the story that stands out probably most to me is probably that I've had it moment, Ken, Because I think we've all been there where you've kind of understood, hey, I need to make some changes with my money. I probably need to get on this plan that Ramsey's talking about. And you start it, and you feel like you're doing the thing, but you're still so frustrated. Right. How many people have started the Ramsey plan, and they kind of feel like they're taking two steps forward, one step back. Because life hits, right? Life hits. The emotions hit. And sometimes you just kind of want to throw up your hands and go, is this going to be worth the trouble? And I remember that, at least for me. I woke up in the morning, and the first thing that woke me up in the morning was my phone buzzing. And when I looked at the number, it was 1, 800, pay me, which is what I call the debt collectors. It was a credit card. And, you know, back then, I was kind of in avoidance mode, so I just hit the button so that it would go to voicemail. And then five minutes later, it buzzed again. And then 10 minutes later, it buzzed again.

[B]

Not how you want to start a day.

[C]

Well, that was the way I started my day every day. That was just the way it was. Because what I didn't realize, I wasn't doing what the plan taught. I wasn't paying minimum payments on everything, and then putting the extra money to the Smallest. I was just trying to put all the money on the smallest debt. So I had these bill collectors blowing me up. And it went on throughout the day. And that day, Sam and I had to run an errand. Back then, we were doing a bunch of side hustles, and a lot of times we'd get paid in cash, and then we'd have to take the cash to the bank to deposit it so that we could actually pay our bills. And so that day, we were going to deposit, like, 300 bucks in cash to the bank so that we could pay our rent. And on the way to the bank, the phone buzzed. And it buzzed again, and it buzzed again. And when I tell you, Ken, I lost it. I lost it. I was like, pull the car over. That's what I told Sam. I said, pull the car over. And he's like, okay. Like, is it me? What did I do? But you know, Sam, he's like, when Jade gets like this, I just need to listen.

[B]

Right, right.

[C]

So he pulled the car over, and I proceeded to just go, go off. I was like, we've been working this plan. We've been doing everything right. What do we have to show for it? You know? And I. I was so angry. And the worst part of it was, here we are, I'm going off. We're sitting in our Jeep, which has payments on it. The AC barely works, right? And it's South Florida, so it's hot. And, you know, the moment you slow down, the AC stops working even more. So we're just sitting in this hot butt car, just, you know, And I'm crying, and Sam is like, oh, my gosh, like, what do I do? And I remember I picked up the money that we were supposed to be depositing, and I said, let's just give this to the credit card company so they can stop calling me $300. They want it, like, $298. And back then, that felt like the world. I would have done anything to get that money in that moment, But I feel like I had already. I was already doing the side hustles. I was already working full time. I was already doing everything. And I was ready to give them my rent money. And Sam was like, we can't do that. He was like, we can't do that. We have to stay the course. We have to do what we know to do. And I remember for, like, the next two hours, we just sat, and it was kind of like we went. After all the emotions subsided, we sat and went through it all with a fine toothed comb. It was like, what are we missing? What are we missing here? What are we doing wrong? Cause it shouldn't feel like this. And that's when we figured out, hey, we're not doing it correct. We're putting all of our money to the smallest debt. We're not paying the minimums first. We don't have $1,000 SA saved. That's why it feels so tight. That's why we're trying to give them rent money. That's why. And sometimes that's what we have to do when we feel those moments of frustration, like our emotions are taking over, we have to stop and go, what am I missing? And it's almost like you need to do an audit and go back over your behavior. Because when you're in this plan, there's so much that we're throwing at you. Save a thousand dollars, do it like this, Stop eating out, stop your withholding, stop your, you know, change your W4, all that kind of stuff. And it can be hard to remember it all. And before you do it, you think before you know it, you're. You're missing something. Something's a little. And it's all with the best of intentions. But that's just one of the many ways that our emotions can make us want to give up. They can kind of throw a wrench in the whole thing and everything just grinds to a halt. And I really care about that because I hear it all the time in calls.

[B]

Yeah. I'm going to ask you from your journey, plus the calls that you've now, you've sat in thousands of calls, man. All right. What is one of the most prevalent, one of the most obvious emotions that you see in this debt free journey? Getting control of your money. What's an emotion that you see pretty commonly?

[C]

I mean, what I just gave an example of would be frustration. But what we hear a lot here on the calls, it's anger. It's that anger of, wait a second, I did everything right. The culture said I'm supposed to, you know, go to college. If I go to college and get a good degree, I'll be successful. So I get a student loan for that because that's what they said to do. And I did it. And then when I graduated, I was told that I could celebrate and get a car loan, because that's what you do when you graduate. So I got my car loan and then I got married and I bought a house. I did everything right. Why am I up to my eyeballs in debt and stress or Maybe you're a person who. It's kind of like what Dr. Johnny. Dr. Johnny.

[B]

Dr. John Deloney would say, please start calling him Johnny.

[C]

Dr. Johnny.

[B]

That's funny.

[C]

You know, he would say, not by my hand, but in my lap.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And a lot of us are dealing with that. It's like we didn't cause the financial struggle, but here we are left to deal with it, and it makes us mad. You know, I thought the government was going to pay off my student loans. I waited. I did the public service, student loan thing. They didn't come in. They didn't hold up their end of the bargain. So there's a lot of things that have caused us to be disenchanted with the whole thing. And that anger is real.

[B]

So in my hearing, I think I'm hearing this. Correct me if I'm wrong. What you really believe, based on your own experience and then coaching a lot of people, is that winning with money isn't just about our process. It's also winning with the emotions that come with this process. Is that I'm hearing.

[C]

Absolutely. I think that it is what key.

[B]

To winning, though, with those emotions? How do you deal with those emotions and stay on track?

[C]

You know what I learned? It's endurance. You have to embrace endurance because endurance produces maturity. That's truly what the Bible says.

[B]

That's exactly what it says.

[C]

But I learned that running a marathon when I ran, and I'm talking about an actual marathon on a financial marathon.

[B]

I can vouch for this. She's a warrior princess.

[C]

When you. When I started, when I said I want to run this marathon, the first thing that came was, oh, my gosh, it's going to be hard. Oh, my gosh, it's going to last for three months. There's a. There's a long time period that you have to embrace. There's a discomfort that you have to embrace. I remember midway through training, my Achilles was hurting, my quads were hurting. But you have to run anyway, right? Then you go out there and some days it's raining and you have. The weather's not good, and you have to run anyway because, you know, if you just follow the process, if you just do the training, you will cross the finish line. That is a given. And millions of people have done it before me. So if I just accept the process, if I can get to a point of acceptance that I have to just endure this thing, a hard thing, for a long period of time, I can win. And money is exactly the same way. The conditions are not always going to be favorable. There's going to be pain, there's going to be discomfort. You're going to have to do it day after day after day. And sometimes it gets harder before it gets easier. But if you keep going, you will cross your finish line.

[B]

So that's a fun example right there of just a smidge of something I know you're very excited about. I'm holding in my hands something really, really cool.

[C]

Look at that. Ken Coleman.

[B]

It's. First of all, it's a fabulous picture of you.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

Good gracious.

[C]

Well, for those listening, it's a book.

[B]

Did you do a couple push ups before they took that picture?

[C]

That was after the marathon.

[B]

So for those listening, I'm holding in my hands your brand new book. It's called what no one tells you about Money. The real key to getting unstuck from someone who's been there. And that's just one of the amazing stories. Just real quick, tell folks how they can get this. This is exciting.

[C]

Yeah. Go to ramseysolutions.com store. You can pick one up. It's on pre sale, guys. Today, please. If you've ever been stuck, if you've ever wanted to throw up your hands, if you're sick of taking two steps forward, one step back, if you need something, you're like, jade, how? What can I do? This is the book for you. I'm not just an expert yapping at you. I am your buddy. Walking with you, getting knee deep in the emotions with you.

[B]

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[B]

Guardian Litigation Group LLP. Not available in Minnesota and Oregon. Results vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed. Debt settlement may negatively affect credit and not all creditors will negotiate or settle. Savings vary and may be taxable. Please review terms for more information. All right, let's go to Elijah, who's joining us in Oregon. Elijah, how can we help today?

[C]

Strong name. I like it.

[B]

Hey, man, how's it going?

[D]

That's what everyone always tells me. I'm happy to have it.

[B]

That's right. What's going on?

[D]

So basically, I'm gonna try and tell this story as concisely as possible, but it is kind of a tricky one. So basically, I was engaged to a girl and we were together for a few months. I mean, engaged for a few months. We were together for over a year, but she started expressing doubts and ultimately she told me she wanted to end the engagement. And around that time we found out that we were pregnant together.

[C]

Oh.

[D]

Yeah. So I, I was adamant about, hey, I think we should really try and stay together for the kids sake. I think we should follow through with staying together. And so she was open to it for a little while. I moved her into my place. She has two kids, so we moved the whole family. And. But ultimately, I think she just kind of felt trapped being in my place and she, she ended up leaving and going back to her place. She got her. Her ex boyfriend, one of her other kids, fathers to help her move, and he was kind of helping her out for a week. And. Yeah, and so she, she left and I was working on Wildfire at the time, and when I got off, I guess she get, you know, her, her ex boyfriend kind of went out of state to go work a job and so she kind of started reaching out, back out to me for help. And she doesn't really want to be together, but she's been, she's been asking for a lot of financial support, and she hasn't really guaranteed me that I'm gonna even get to have like a relationship with my, you know, with our baby on the way. She's pretty adamant about just wanting to raise, raise her on her own and then just kind of receive child support. And so she's not open to any kind of 50, 50 custody or anything like that. And, you know, so I, I wanted to be helpful to her. Obviously she's the mother of this child, you know, that we created, but it's really hard to not kind of feel like I'm just sort of being taken advantage of. We kind of agreed on that. I would. I would give her a little bit of money out of each paycheck to kind of help her out. She gets. She was getting a little bit of trou. Child support from her other fathers, but even that she hasn't really been getting lately because they, like, lost their job. The other one's working under the table.

[C]

Do they have. Do her other two kids have two separate dads? Are there three dads total?

[D]

Yeah, two separate fathers. That would be the third father to have a kid with her.

[B]

I hate this that this is happening to you, because this is tough, really tough emotionally, but, man, you've dodged a bullet. This. I'm. Listen, I'm not. Okay, No, I mean, I'm saying, like, just. You have dodged. This is not a. A woman that I think you want to settle down with. We've got two other dudes, two other kids. She is taking advantage of you.

[C]

You.

[B]

She doesn't want you in the picture. She doesn't value you. Assuming that you're telling us is true.

[C]

Let me ask you straight up, Elijah. What did you do? Did you do anything? Or are you completely innocent holding a bag like, did you do anything to cause this to come to an end?

[D]

I mean, I want to try and be as honest as I can. The reason I'm calling you guys is because I feel like what she and I have been doing is like, I'll talk to my people, and they'll be like, well, she's taking advantage of you. And then she'll talk to her people, and they'll say, well, he's not stepping up as a man or whatever.

[C]

Okay?

[D]

And so I would say that the main problems. I can tell you what she's expressed with her problems with me were a lot of them were just kind of like household issues. Like, it would be stuff like I would put on an audio Bible at night and accidentally wake her up, and she thought that was inconsistent.

[C]

You listening to the Bible? Come on.

[D]

I mean, I think it was more.

[B]

Second. All right, hold on a second. I think everybody knows that I took you at face value.

[C]

My Bible.

[B]

But now I'm starting to doubt you when you drop the Bible. That's the first thing she griped about. Are you shooting me straight?

[C]

Nothing.

[D]

I'm telling you this because that was. That was the night before she left.

[B]

How late at night was? Okay, I got to do a follow up. American needs to know this. How late at night was it?

[C]

I don't know.

[D]

It might have been 10 or 11 or something. It might have been. It might have been in the middle of the night. It might have been like. Like I woke up to get a glass of water and I was having trouble sleeping or something.

[B]

And so you're right next to her. So you're right next to her listening to the Old Testament. I'd be pissed, too. I don't care if it's the Bible or not. I'm trying to sleep. Go to the living room. But that doesn't sound like. But that doesn't sound like worthy of this.

[C]

Yeah, I was trying to get at. Did you do anything? Like, did you. Che. Did you. Were you being a jerk in some kind of way? Okay.

[B]

Do you.

[D]

Do you listen to your Bible arguments?

[C]

But. All right.

[B]

Do you. Do you not understand?

[D]

No, it was like. Yeah, I'm sorry.

[B]

Well, I just want to ask you. You laughed when I said it, and I don't mind being laughed at. You know, it happens all the time.

[C]

I'm sitting right here.

[B]

It really does. Do you not understand what I mean when I say you dodged a relationship bullet here? As hard as this is, and I hate that the custody thing is the thing. I got a lady in the front row. This is a wise woman. I can just see. And she's given me a thumbs up, so that means I'm right, which is rare too. You know, you've dodged a bullet, and I share that. To say this is painful, this is tough, but I think you need to understand that what you have a responsibility to is child support.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

So I would, on the. Finally tie this up, in my opinion. And then I got an outlier towards the end here. And I want to get out of the way, let Jade weigh in. But I'll say that I think part of your healing needs to be. I really dodged a bullet here. This is a very complex relationship I was in. It's messy. She does not seem like long term material to me. I'm not judging, folks. I call balls and strikes. Okay. And so we dodged a bullet. That should help you recover a little bit quicker. Two, I'm okay with you continuing to give her the money that you agreed to because you said it was a small amount. And I would keep your word. Unless she does something that would then morally disqualify her. And you go, well, you didn't keep your word. I'm gonna keep you in mind. And then I would wait for the judge to decide.

[D]

She continues to ask for more. And she's been spending on things that aren't essential.

[B]

That's not your problem. Hold on a second.

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

Hold on. It's not your problem. I don't care how many times she asks you. Give her what you agreed to. Unless she violates the agreement, then you don't have to give her anything. And then I'd wait for the judge to tell you, because the judge is gonna tell you.

[C]

Well, and I wanna know what that amount is. What are you giving her now?

[D]

It was. I basically went off of what she got child support from. From her other people. And it was something like. It was something like 250 to 300 out of every like couple weeks. And so it was only like 500amonth. But I went back and ultimately I was giving her because she would continue asking for more. And ultimately it was like two to three times as much as what I ended up giving her. And so I went and I talked to her and I was just kind of like, hey, I feel like you're asking for a lot more than what we originally agreed on. And so I kind of tried to switch to just like, can you just like let me when you need groceries or something and we'll give you public amounts.

[B]

She doesn't have this control over you, man.

[C]

I wanna jump in here because there is part of this, I wanna know more because the truth is if you were taking care of cause the child support, obviously it needs to start while she's pregnant. Cause she's carrying the baby. So usually it's based off of a percentage of what you're earning. So likening it to the other guys. Ah, I get why you're doing it. But it might not necessarily be fair if you were making more than them and if you are situation where you were previously providing more. So there's part of that that I want to be fair to the baby and fair to what it actually takes to carry.

[B]

Well, we need to get a judge involved in this and you need to.

[C]

Do that sooner than later. But.

[B]

But not give her any more money. Don't give her any more until we get a judge involved. You give her what you said you're gonna hear. I'm gonna take a hard line on that one because she's asking for more and she's. She's manipulating you and she's holding that baby over you. I don't like it.

[D]

One of the, one of the concerns is like obviously just kind of like there's kind of wonder why I wanted to talk to you guys because obviously there's a lot of emotional parts involved for me. But her. Her two fathers. Her only income source is child support. She. She lives for free on. Her grandmother's another problem.

[B]

But her.

[D]

Her only income is child support, and so her two fathers basically stop paying child support. So it's kind of like if I'm not supporting her, like, nobody.

[B]

Not your problem. It's not.

[D]

But, I mean, she. She's the mother of my child. Like, I obviously don't want her to go hungry while she's growing our baby.

[B]

I understand that you're. Your only commitment is whatever the fair and equitable child support number is. If you want to give more than that, you can. But she's manipulating you right now. The very nature of that question is a guy who's been manipulated emotionally. And I get it. You got a good heart. But she will take advantage of this. Her two deadbeat dudes that she got pregnant with the first time, that's her problem. And their problem. It's not your problem. This is a country music song is what this is. This entire call is a number one hit. And I know because we're in Music City. City. I mean, you. If you got any musical talent, you might want to write this one here. It could really take off.

[C]

In the meantime. In the meantime, Elijah, go online and look at just kind of some standards to get an idea. I'm looking here. Standard is usually 17 for one child, 25 for two, 29 for three. I will disagree with my colleague and say her home situation does affect how she's carrying your baby today. So you need to wait. You need to weigh that in. I'm not saying be taken advantage of, but I'm just saying she's a mess.

[B]

No matter how much money this guy gets.

[C]

But it's all together. It's all together is all I'm saying.

[B]

I get it.

[C]

I'm thinking of the baby.

[B]

It's a country music song. Somebody write that.

[A]

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[B]

Based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors, prices may vary by location, product availability and the market. All right, let's go to Taylor, who's joining us now in Cleveland, Ohio. Taylor, how can we help today?

[E]

Hi there. So my question is, my husband started a side hustle last year doing home inspections. So this is not his full time career gig. This is just something that he thought would be lucrative. And I think he just really wants to be a business owner and I appreciate that about him. My question is. So we, we have no debt on the business, praise Jesus. But up front we spend about $13,000 like for him to go to school, to get his permits, all the equipment, you know, he needed. And then every month we're paying like 300 ish dollars for the program that like the software he uses, our insurance and all of that, like business insurance.

[C]

Okay. So.

[E]

And obviously home inspections are not super consistent. Like they can, you know, vary every month.

[D]

Sure.

[E]

So I guess my question is at what point do we say this business is costing us money every month? It's not making us anything, it's not profitable. Well, okay, so like I said, it varies. So like this month he's had no home inspections at all. So we have been paying the $300 on all these things that we need to sustain the business, but haven't made any money. What about over the life of the home inspection?

[C]

You got to look at it over the life of the business. When did he start it?

[E]

He started so he, he was off the ground in March.

[C]

Okay. And since March, how much has you got to look at it as it is since March, how much he's brought in? It's just, you know, a balance sheet, how much he's brought in minus how many expenses and what's, what's the number?

[E]

So with the debt of about, well, not debt, but what we paid out about 13,000 plus the 300amonth he's done. Yes, he's done about eight home inspections at roughly like $400 apiece.

[C]

Okay, so 32. Right.

[E]

And that's, that is all at this point.

[C]

Okay, and do you guys, have you decided at what point the break even should be and at what point he should be profitable? Because here's the thing, if you guys didn't set out what the plan is, then we don't know at what point to pull the trigger. Because it's fair, it's fair to say it's going to take some time to earn a profit. But once he starts turning it, everything after that is profit. So once he makes 13,000 or 14,000 with the 300amonth, then. Then you're profitable. So you guys have to decide that.

[E]

Yeah, that's true. I could absolutely see where you're coming from.

[B]

Are you calling or are you calling on behalf of him?

[C]

Him.

[B]

In other words, he's wondering. I thought so.

[D]

So if I'm not the risk taker.

[B]

Right. So if I run into him today and we don't know about this call and I say to him, what do you do? And, and he says, I'm in. I'm in Cleveland and I've got this job, but then I've got a little home inspection business that I've got going. And I say, well, how do you feel about that?

[C]

How's.

[B]

What's he going to say to me in response to that?

[E]

He's going to say it's great.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

And he's going to say he's like I said, he's more of the dreamer. So he is like, you know, we just have to wait another month. I just need to be doing this or that or I need to get, you know, in with a realtor, which in theory, absolutely he does and I support that.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

The problem is, like I mentioned, this is his sidekick. So he can't put as much effort into this as he does his full time career because we also have two small children and I work part time, you know, so we have all these other.

[B]

Let me ask another question.

[F]

Right.

[B]

Do you, do you manage the budget? Are you the nerd? That's more in the numbers.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

By the way. And so then the 300amonth, how, how tight is that from a number standpoint, not from an emotional standpoint. We know the answer. The idea that we're spending 300amonth and it's not ROI and it's driving you nuts, you're breaking out in hives. I get it.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

But I'm talking real numbers. How much does the $300 a month affect you guys?

[E]

I mean it, it's not like we are trying to rub nickels together here. What I will say the other factor that's kind of. It plays in for me is that his full time job, he recently left the position that he was in and went somewhere else. And we did take a pay cut there, so. And that was his choice and I was hesitant about. So he is making about $10,000 less a year than he was.

[C]

And what baby step are you guys on?

[E]

So we, we are completely paid off aside from our house.

[C]

Okay, that's great. Can I ask you a question?

[E]

We're 32 and 34 okay, so we have time.

[C]

My question for you, If I were your husband. What's your husband's name? You don't have to say.

[E]

It's Eric.

[C]

Okay.

[E]

It's okay.

[C]

If I was Eric. If I was Eric, my question would be, okay, honey, how do you think that we. Because the truth is we've. We've sunk 15,000 into this. My plan was that over time, we'd recoup that from the business and then we'd be profitable. Yeah. If we stop the business now, honey, how do you think that we are going to recoup the 15,000?

[E]

Okay, so I can tell you the answer to that.

[C]

Hit me. So he.

[E]

He's like, well, I can start a mowing company or like a lawn care business.

[C]

So it's business after business after business because he'd have to create a new.

[B]

No, no. Let me tell you what I'd tell Eric.

[C]

Okay, well, wait, wait, wait, wait. She didn't answer the question. That was how Eric. That's how Eric would answer. I want to know. How would you answer? I want to know in your mind, how do you recoup the 15,000 if it's not through the business that was supposed to recoup it? It.

[E]

So I honestly, if. If that. If it were up to me, I would just say call it a loss, time to be done. And I would take the money that we were putting towards the business every month, and I would be putting it on a house payment. That's just the way. We actually just got our PMI taken off, which saves us about $200 a month for that, which I then in turn have been putting on our principal. So I. I would like to put even more on that if we could, because it's not, you know, like I mentioned, it's not like we rubbing the nickels together to get this 300amonth, but I feel like we would be better suited putting it somewhere else.

[C]

On a scale of 1 to 10, what's your risk tolerance? On a scale of 1 to 10?

[B]

I'm raising my hand. It's my turn.

[E]

Probably like a 2. Ish. There we go. I am not. I'm not. And I know I need to work on that.

[B]

Can I go now? Okay, here's the deal. Here's the deal. I'm trying to set you free. Okay? He wants to do something entrepreneurial. You guys have already invested the 13,000. Yes. He's slow going, but he's got a lot going on. This is a good man. There's no marital tension here. I'M talking to two responsible people that are on baby step six. Here's what I think your encouragement would be to him. Hey, babe, how many realtors do we know? And if we don't know any realtors, who do we know that know any realtors? And this does not take a lot of time. He can carry a full time job, help you at home with all of his husband and dad duties and still connect to realtors and go, hey, I've launched a business. If you're looking for somebody reputable or if you get in a pinch, even though you may have a guy, I can be your guy. And he does this. And this is phone calls on the way to work, phone calls on the way home, phone calls during lunch. This is a simple solution. There's no need for him to stop this business and go to something else. He hasn't given enough time, nor can I say. And it's not critique. It's not a critique. He's just not giving enough energy. And so you could say to him, hey, babe, I have a little bit of ooh right here because we're putting 300amonth in. And I'd like this to start to roi But I believe in you. And so I think this is what we need to do. And you say, I called the Ramsey show. Blame it on me. I don't care. It's easy because I'm not gonna be in the dining room.

[C]

Blame it on me too.

[B]

Cause I blame it on Jade. Okay? That's why I was chomping at the bit to go. I think you're focused on the wrong thing. And I love your. I love that you want it to roi and it should. But instead of shutting it down, you.

[C]

Got to give it time.

[B]

You got to give it time. And don't forget what this is for him. This is a bigger deal to him than what it is to you. And I think I'd let this thing play. But it's okay for you as one half of this marriage to have a voice and to say, I think it should ROI and babe, here's what I think we do. And by the way, you could go reach out to some realtors.

[C]

And it's okay for you, who's a 2 on the risk meter, to say, I do want to put, put some sort of timeline on this, that if we get to a certain point and we're still nowhere close to roiing on this, that we need to consider what comes next. That's fair.

[B]

That is 100 fair. And I think that becomes obvious yeah, it's not for us to decide, but I hope that helps. You're a sweet, sweet, sweet lady and a great wife. Let this thing play out. Let's start recruiting. Let's go find more realtors. The more realtors in front of that, he gets some type of a deal with the more inspections he's going to get. The more inspections he gets, the more money he makes, the happier you are when you see that budget every month. And that is what it's all about.

[C]

Happy wife, happy life.

[F]

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[C]

All.

[F]

Open enrollment has a lot of people scrambling right now, but CHM lets you join anytime, so go to chministries.orgbudget to check them out. That's chministries.orgbudget.

[B]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Dayton is joining us now from Vancouver. Dayton, how can we help today?

[D]

Hey there, guys. Yeah, calling in, just. I'll make it as brief as I can. It's a bit of a mindset kind of thing. My wife and I, quite a few years ago, we had quite a bit of debt, about 22,000 and we had worked hard to pay that off. And then since then we've had three kids, bought a house, and a lot of things have happened and racked up quite a bit more debt. My mindset question to you is what are some ways that we can kind of protect ourselves from doing this again? We're just starting the baby steps and we don't want to get out of debt and then get back into it. There's a lot of shame around, like sticking to our budget, like looking at our finances and stuff. So I'm just wondering if you guys can Kind of help us with the mindset of getting out and staying out.

[C]

So my first question would be, back in the day, when you paid off the 22,000, what did it. What did it look like to pay that off? Did it. Was it painful? Or was it kind of like, we're gonna do this? And once it was done, it was done.

[D]

Initially, it was kind of painful. Like, I can't believe I did this. Credit card company saw me coming from a mile away at 18. And then I just worked. I was at a job where I could work tons of overtime. So I pretty much worked seven days a week, 60, 70 hours a week kind of thing. And we just. We worked through it, and it felt really good when we got out of debt, but it was. It was a grind getting through it.

[B]

How long did that take?

[D]

I was able to pay that off in about 11 months, I think it was.

[B]

So without giving us too long of a story, what happened? Because you said, and then things happened and we accumulated debt again. What type of things?

[D]

Well, in that window pretty much right after that, we got married, and then we had our first child, and then we had our second child. And then I did a career change that cost me quite a bit of money to go to school down in Texas. And then we bought a house, and then we had a third child. And, you know, when you buy a house to make it what you want it, you end up spending money thinking that it's going to be okay.

[B]

So what kind of career change was this? What are you doing now?

[D]

I'm a firefighter now.

[B]

And what did that cost you?

[D]

It cost me about $20,000 to get into that.

[B]

Do you still have a loan on this?

[D]

No, so. Well, yeah, I guess it's part of my. One of my line of credits. I used to get into that, and.

[B]

So I'm hearing one of your line of credits, and that's what we did to make the house great for three kids.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

Interesting. Yeah. I'm just thinking about what you're saying. And first off, you haven't paid off the 103 yet. Right. So you haven't allowed yourself to go through that process. I'm one. I'm a person that I think, think everything is in the process. The first time, it took you about 11 months. The truth is, the debt wasn't that drastic. It probably was uncomfortable to pay it off. But you were able to do it. I think now because more is on the line and you're going to feel this one a lot more because it's. You it's your wife, it's your kids, and you're going to have to change your lifestyle, which you're going to feel that. I have a feeling that this one is going to stick a little bit more. However you asked, what's the mindset that you need? And I think I hear the mindset that got you into it. And I'll try to give you an idea of the mindset that got you out that's gonna keep you out, which is, I think, Dayton. A lot of times when we are in our life and we've got our money, we start to develop kind of an I deserve mentality. And it's not. It doesn't have to be ugly. It's just kind of like, I work hard, I deserve to spend. Right. I deserve to spend money on the things that I want. I deserve to have the lifestyle I want. I deserve to have the car and the house I want. After all, I've worked hard. And if we're not careful, that can really, really, really do us in. Because that's what's happened to you. You listed it. You're like, well, we had kids, and then I wanted this career, and then I wanted this house. And it's kind of like, what other thing would cause you to go into debt other than the fact that you think you simply deserve to have those things? Right? I mean, is that fair enough?

[D]

Yeah, yeah, I would agree with that.

[C]

And then the other side of that I deserve is you're also seeing what other people have, and it's like, well, how do they deserve that? I deserve what they have because the people around me have the house, the people around me have the car. And so you're. You're making that comparison and you're trying to keep up with the things you see. Is that fair enough?

[D]

Yeah, yeah, to a degree. I mean, like, I never. We don't buy any nice cars. We don't have any car payments or anything like that. It's been. But yeah, totally. Lifestyle, like wanting to do things with the kids, wanting to make sure they got a nice space, pretty place, you.

[E]

Know, that kind of stuff.

[C]

And so I think the mentality going out of it, and don't get me wrong, I think coming out of $103,000 of debt is going to change you in a different way than coming out of $22,000 of debt is. But I want you to adapt the mentality of what you truly deserve, which is you truly deserve to have a good night's sleep without debt over your shoulder. Right.

[B]

Ding. Ding, ding.

[C]

You deserve to feel good about the money that you earn and that it's enough for your family and not feel like, like it's not, you know, because the opposite is what makes you go out to get debt. The opposite is what I'm contributing is not enough. What I'm bringing and earning is not enough. Therefore I must. And then you go to all these debt sources, but you deserve to feel good about the life you're providing for your family.

[B]

So Dayton, I want to flip that. She's right. But let's just for a second, let's be real gut level honest with each other, the three of us. What are the emotions you're feeling, the negative emotions attached to this debt and those debt payments and that interest and all the things that you now obviously regret, which is why you called today and you said, said, how do I keep from doing this again? What is the most negative emotion? Describe it.

[D]

Well, I would say it's like massive amounts of shame because I was in a good position and I've made good money for a lot of years and I'm back to making good money now. And it was a lot of shame to look at the finances. I knew they were getting out of hand, but I literally like every time I think to open up the banking app or do my budget, my immediate thing is like, don't do that, man. Like you're just looking, looking your failure in the face. Right? So that would have been how it got out of hand for sure.

[B]

How much stress, how much pressure do you feel?

[D]

Oh, lots. Like especially now looking at my new 2 month old baby and like thinking like, because I'm the sole income earner in our family, my thankfully my job allows for that. But what if I told you, what.

[B]

If I told you I could snap my fingers and take away the shame and take away the stress? Well, how would you react to that? I know it's fantastical question, but how would you feel? How would you feel?

[C]

Feel?

[D]

I, I know it would make me feel a lot better, that's for sure. If I'm not carrying that baggage around. Right.

[B]

Okay, so my two cents on this is the way that you keep from ever doing this again is to in these moments, on a daily bas, on daily basis, remind yourself how awful this feels. And I don't ever want to feel that again. Like that. To me, if you talk to somebody who's lost a ton of weight, somebody who beat some type of an addiction, and I've been able to interview people like this, I know people my personal life. If you trace their story of when they recovery. We've heard Dave say this for years on this show on stages. It's the I had it moment. You've talked about that. You talked about it earlier in the show today. I think you have to bottle this emotion not to stay with it. And I really want you to focus on getting out of that shame because we all carry shame and it's powerful. But I do think you need to sit with it long enough to go, I don't ever want to feel this again. And it's actually really simple. Simple to never get back in this again. You can get out of it. You've done it before. You're going to do it this time, but to never get back. And it goes, I don't ever want.

[A]

To feel that again.

[B]

And I have total control as to whether or not I ever feel this way again. And I think that will be really helpful. So get your chin up, walk the baby steps. You can do this. Throw off that coat of shame. You're not a deadbeat. You're not a jerk. You're not a loser. You're not a bad man. You made a bad financial decision. Decision. Welcome to the club, pal.

[C]

You're gonna be okay.

[A]

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[C]

All right, all right, Ken. You know, when I, when we hear calls like that one where people are dealing with guilt and shame, it kind of it is important to know the difference. Right. When we. When we feel guilt with our money, it's generally kind of like that second stage of buyer's remorse or remorse where we're like, man, I wish I hadn't done that. You know? And it feels guilty. Especially if it's affecting our loved ones. It's not just us. Now our kids are affected. Now our spouse is affected. That's really where we feel a large amount guilt. But when it crosses that barrier, Ken of it's not just this thing I did, but now I am the mistake, and I'm wearing that mistake as an identity. That's when we get into shame. And that's why that call is tough. Because if you're wearing that identity, I am the mistake. I'm the reason we're not getting ahead. I'm the reason that our finances are bad. Then. Yeah. Going forward, how could you trust yourself? Because in your mind, you've personified yourself as a failure.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It would be very hard to trust your decisions going forward. And so these are the types of things I talk about in my new book that's out now.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, it's story, story, story, by the way.

[C]

Story, story, story. What no one tells you about money is. Is just the sort of thing no one tells you that there's such an emotional struggle going through. Because with that last caller, he understands the baby steps. He's done it before. He knows that. Yeah. You got a list of debts, smallest to largest. But what's blocking him is his emotion. What's blocking him is the shame and the guilt that he's feeling over past mistakes. And he sort of person who needs what no one tells you about money. Because I actually walk people through how to get past that. That was something that Sam and I dealt with during our money battle. I know for Sam, there was a lot of shame because most of the student loans came from his end of the equation. And so for him, it was, I'm the reason we can't get ahead.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And you know, that aggression can't stand. You have to learn how to forgive yourself and walk through that, because until you forgive yourself, you really cannot go forward.

[B]

And I'm glad you mentioned it. We're so excited. Jade's new book, what no Tells you about Money, is now available for pre sale. And I love this. We were talking about this earlier. This is not just another money book. This is real stories from her journey. She and her husband Sam paid off over $500,000 worth of debt. And she focuses on the emotional side of money, that's the idea. What no one tells you about money is what that it's really.

[C]

And it's emotional.

[B]

It's really tough emotionally. Even though we give you a tried and true process of the baby steps, that does not mean that you aren't going to have those rough days where you want to quit, where you feel frustrated, like you can't ever get there. It works for everybody else, Dave, but it ain't working for me.

[C]

Jade, the plan's only 50% of the equation. I mean the logic, we can all look at the baby steps and go, yeah, that's logical, that makes sense, feels practical. But when you start doing it, Ken, is a whole different story. You get waylaid by a whole slew of things that you might be feeling. Whether it's frustration, whether you're angry at the system or your mom and dad, or whether you're like the last caller, you're feeling a lot of guilt and shame or maybe you're just caught up in like self pity.

[B]

Woe is me, I gotta tell you, if that was me and I wanted to be coached up by somebody who'd actually walk the walk and doesn't just talk the talk, it'd be Jade. Could you imagine Jade training you? Could you imagine she runs marathons. I mean look at the guns on the book cover. If you're not watching the show today, you gotta go to ramseysolutions.com store. You can see, see, she's got the guns out, folks. Did you do push ups before that photo shoot?

[C]

I ran. I ran a marathon before that photo shoot. I was in. I was in tip top shape, I gotta tell you. Still am.

[B]

My next book cover, I might go sleeveless. We'll see how that goes. I don't know.

[C]

I'll let you borrow the tank top, Ken.

[B]

That probably look good.

[C]

Probably your belly button's gonna be showing.

[B]

That's not a good look for middle aged guys. Not a good look. Nobody wants to see that. But hey, if you want to get the book, ramseysolutions.com pre order now, pre order and you get $100 plus in free bonus items. And you want to get it now. It's the best deal in the book. 24, I'm doing a book club. 99, you're doing a book club.

[C]

If you pre order you get a free slot in my book club. It's three weeks and we're going through it chapter by chapter.

[B]

So can I get a friend connection on this or do I have to buy your Book or can I get a friend spot in the book?

[C]

No, Ken, you got to buy the book. Come on. That's just you being a good friend.

[B]

That's a good point. You know, I just exposed myself as being cheap.

[C]

The person, you know. What's going on?

[B]

I'm starting to act like George. That's a question George would ask cuz he doesn't want to spend any money. What am I doing? I'm better than that.

[C]

Let me tell you what I'm going to do.

[B]

I'll get it. I'll get it.

[C]

I, I, I'm pre ordering. I'm buying a copy of my own book today.

[B]

You are?

[C]

Yes, that I have. That's part of it. If I don't buy a copy of my own book, why can I expect anybody else to buy one? Ken.

[B]

All right, well, I'm very excited for you. I'll be the first one to get some free bonus items. I wanted to tell you that.

[C]

That's right. Yeah.

[B]

Ramseysolutions.com store great book, by the way. There's no money book like this on the planet.

[C]

It doesn't exist.

[B]

I looked go get. Yes, you did. Brett is up in Charlotte, North Carolina. Brett, how can we help?

[D]

Hey, I got a pretty difficult decision to make here in the next 24 hours or so. So I was hoping to get some advice on what I should do. All right, so Wednesday, our team, everybody on our team was told that our team was being eliminated and everybody was being laid off.

[C]

Oh my.

[D]

Effective today. But they've come back with a two severance options and I'm having a tough time picking between the two.

[B]

Okay, give us number one.

[D]

Number one is I remain on the company payroll for 60 days. I get my normal check. I have health insurance. You know, my, all the deductions are normal. Everything stays the same. I just don't have any work response. The catch to that is that if I become employed anytime during that 60 days, it stops.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

So I have to let them know and any further benefits, you know, or pay will cease. So the other option is they'll give me 45 days of salary and the separation is effective immediately. Like when the money is deposited for the lump sum that ends the relationship. And so there's no health insurance, no further benefits whatsoever.

[C]

So one is all at once and the other one is over the course of the 60 days.

[D]

Correct.

[C]

How does the, for the 45 days, how does that work with insurance? Because that has to play out over time.

[D]

The 45 days. Yeah, I asked about that. The Insurance stops, you know, pretty much the day the lump sum was deposited.

[B]

So no insurance.

[C]

I think that's a no brainer for me.

[B]

Okay, which way are you leaning?

[C]

I'm leaning towards the 60 days. Because my thought is for if, if you wanted to, if you. Let's pretend you got a. A, you know, you start looking for a job immediately. And let's pretend in the next two to three weeks you land something you could easily say, here's my start date that I'd like to start. If you felt like your previous job was paying more or there was something beneficial that you were getting from having that additional 60 days play out, or let's say you land a job in the next three weeks, you get paid more, the benefits are better. Who cares if this has to turn off? You're in a new job now.

[B]

Yeah, that's the question I have. And this may be an unfair question. And if it is, just say, ken, I don't know. And I get it. Do you have any sense of your ability to land somewhere else fairly quickly?

[D]

Yeah, I don't know.

[B]

What do you do?

[D]

I'm an IT project manager.

[B]

Okay. Given that you got to make a decision pretty quick. I'm with Jade. I'm leaning towards option one because that gives you 60 days as normal, gives you two months where life is normal. It's already awful enough what you've experienced. And I want to point this out so that you sit with this. We know from psychology studies that losing a job, even being laid off, where you didn't do anything wrong, you're part of a massive deal. It is the same emotional equivalent as losing a loved one. So you need to grieve this and know that this is hard. And for that reason, I think I'm going to take the 60 days. I know I got two months more of normalcy in the midst of a lot of grief and confusion and fear and all the stress. Right. And if I get another job and it stops, that's fine because we're talking about a Band Aid situation at most. So I'm with Jade on that. I think I'd take stability, but I would act as though you got nothing coming in.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

Starting tomorrow, actually, starting today. You know what I mean? Like I tell the whole world, I just got laid off. There's no shame in that game, by the way. That happens all the time.

[C]

And what's to say you don't get something better, you know?

[B]

Yeah. So I'd act as though nothing's coming in starting now. And I think that's what I would do. But. So sorry, but you're going to be okay. But I'm going to tell you something. Here's what. Let me, let me. And I'm not saying this is you, but I've coached thousands of people in my time here at Ramsey on this particular issue. And there is this temptation to feel so bad for yourself that you just get stuck in this rut of, well, nothing's really working. No. I mean, you act as if you are starving and you're thrown out on the street. That's the right response.

[A]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

[C]

Yeah.

[F]

And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible. And people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance. And I'm like, I can't even imagine. Or even if it was opposite.

[C]

Right.

[F]

If a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out, how am I gonna afford childcare? How do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? And it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level. Like when you have to think through, how am I going to pay my.

[C]

Bills, how am I going to pay next week? Yeah.

[F]

How in the middle of all that grief? Like, it's just. It is, it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And we keep re upping it because I'm like, I just want it there. Like, there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something.

[A]

Suddenly happens and it doesn't cost much. Cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. It costs those stinking pizza.

[F]

It really is. So that is one thing to do to Say I love you to your family.

[A]

So we've used Zander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance. To get a free quote, go to 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282. Or go to Zander.

[B]

Our question of the day is sponsored by why refi? You didn't take out private student loans hoping to default. But life does happen. And why refi isn't going to shame you over this. They're actually going to help you explore real plan to get back on track. All you got to do is go to yrefi.comramsey to find out more. That's the letter Y, r e f y.com Ramsey. It's not available in all states.

[C]

That's right. Today's question comes from Kelly in Colorado. She says, my debt, my only debt is $16,000 on a car loan. And then I have about $16,000 in savings. So I have my emergency fund built up. The only thing is I'm scared to death to pay off this car loan because my husband and I would like to potentially look into buying a home. I'm truly scared that if we were to do something like that, something else would pop up. I don't know if I should build up a little bit more money and then tackle it or do it now. Okay, so first, Kelly, let's just, I'll give you both sides of it. Let's talk about the baby step side of it, and then we'll talk about the emotional side. So. So, Kelly, the baby steps would tell you that if you have debt, you're in baby step two. All right, you've got, you know, baby step one. Obviously, you put $1,000 aside. You got that, you got $16,000. But the baby steps say you're supposed to take everything else aside from the thousand and put it on the car and pay it off. So essentially, you'd be paying 15,000 on the car if you were really following the steps to a T. And then after that, yeah, you would save up three to six months. And then, and only then, Kelly, would you then start to save up for your down payment for this house. Now, that's a timeline. That's this is not going to happen overnight. Right. This is going to be something that's going to take an extended period of time. So that's when we start getting into the emotional side of this. Whereas Ken and I, we could just tell you, Kelly, here's the steps. Do It. But the truth is, you're going to feel some emotion around that. Number one, you're going to feel the fear of getting rid of your savings, because that is a security blanket to you. You feel that at night, you probably check your bank account balance just to make sure it's still there. Right. It feels good to have $16,000 off to the side. Then there's the part of, oh, my gosh, Jade, you're telling me that I have to do all of those other things before I buy this house. I want to do it much sooner than that. And so there's a little bit of an emotional pill to swallow there when you realize, wait a second, second. The thing I thought I was going to maybe be able to do in the next 12 months is actually maybe going to take me closer to 48 months or possibly even longer. So I just want to take a moment and validate that that is absolutely real. And there's part of this where we're asking you, Kelly, to do something that you've never done before and possibly never even seen done before. And there's a lot of fear in that unknown. Ken.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Speaking of things that have ever been seen before, earlier in the show, I was talking about how in a future book, I might like to. Let me see your book. And by the way, if you're watching. By the way, if you're in the lobby and you want to see something special, move back to that screen back there. You're about ready to see something really special. This is Jade's new book, of course. We've been talking about it, what no one tells you about money. And I was talking to her earlier about, look at her guns. And, you know, she's been working out, training for a marathon, all the things. And then I see. Said maybe my next book. When does it become socially acceptable for a guy to wear a sleeveless shirt on something, you know, formal?

[C]

Okay.

[B]

And so James Childs, being the genius that he is, and the crack team back there behind the glass went to ChatGPT and put me in your tank top on your new book cover. Let's show the audience.

[C]

Oh, Ken.

[B]

There it is, folks. I mean, look at those guns.

[C]

Listen, the guns are. The guns are out. That's face.

[B]

Face is a little warped, but the arm looks a little stronger.

[C]

You have. You have a strange way of. Of showing your excitement for my book, Ken.

[B]

The teeth look fantastic.

[C]

Your teeth looked great.

[B]

So it's just fascinating how socially acceptable it is for women to be sleeveless and. And you all look lovely. We see it all the time. TV out on. Out at. Out in the town. But a guy, a guy goes sleeveless and you either look like a wannabe or a try too hard.

[C]

Yeah. Or.

[B]

Or why? Tr.

[C]

Crash. Listen.

[B]

So there you go.

[C]

It's. It's. You know.

[B]

I don't know why that is. Well, so anyway, I'm sending that to Dave to see what he thinks about a future book cover. See what he thinks about that.

[C]

I'm pretty sure the answer is hard pass. Hard pass.

[B]

You sent that picture to Sam, your husband. And his reply was hilarious. What did he say?

[C]

He was like, this is deeply disturbing.

[B]

So good stuff.

[C]

You need to keep those weapons concealed.

[B]

They're going to stay concealed, folks. There. These babies are dangerous in all 50 states.

[C]

Listen, I don't want to say. I think that picture might have done you a few favors. Ken Coleman.

[B]

I'm happily married. Happily married. Elliot is up in Idaho. Elliot, how can we help?

[D]

So me and my wife just found out we were pregnant like three weeks ago.

[B]

Congratulations.

[D]

Thanks. And I'm trying to figure out how to much we need to save up in the nine months to be able to pay for it all outright.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. So tell me where you are in the baby steps. Is there debt? Is there not debt? Tell me where you're at.

[D]

Yeah, we have a car payment of 5100 and that is about it.

[C]

Wow, 5100 for the car payment? Yeah.

[B]

No, no, you mean the total amount.

[D]

Yeah, total.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

That was the total amount of what we have left.

[C]

Got you. Got you.

[B]

Yeah. The way you said that. America just all did a collective gas.

[C]

I know. That's right. And that's it. Just the car?

[D]

Yeah, just the car.

[C]

Okay. What do you guys earn?

[D]

Combined a little less than 60,000.

[C]

Okay, good. So yeah, during this time we kind of call this stork mode, which is basically you're pausing any real financial traction that you're making to save up every dime that you have, you're saving that up so that when this baby comes, comes just in case, if you need the money, it's there. Now obviously I hope that everything goes off without a hitch, but it is nice to have that money there because many times you do hit the deductible. And it's nice to at least, at the very least have that insurance deductible there so that you know you're not having to come out of pocket last minute for that. Do you know what yours is?

[D]

I believe deductible is 2500.

[C]

Okay. And is that the same as your out of pocket max for the.

[D]

The year out of pocket is 6500.

[C]

6500. So if I were you, that'd probably be somewhere in between those two numbers would be my goal over the next nine months to save up. And then the good news is, let's say you save up the whole 6,500. The good news is once the baby's born, everything's good. Mom's home, baby's home. You can take that whole amount, throw it towards the car, pay it off just like that, and you got a little something something to start your three to six months. Months on. It's off on the right track.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

Makes sense.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Good, good. Let that sink in.

[B]

All right. There you go. All right. Let's talk about the emotions.

[C]

Okay, Nice segue, Ken. Just slap it right in there.

[B]

Let's go. Let's talk about the emotions of bringing a child into the world.

[C]

Oh, Lord.

[B]

You're in the baby steps, right? And this was a very specific question, but just in general.

[D]

General.

[B]

It's been a while, right. But I'm thinking back, I know you've done it. You know, there's something happens, and how do we manage that natural fear of, oh, my gosh, I now have to take care of somebody more than just me and my wife, because I remember Stacy and I. It's like, I never felt like, okay, I've got to take care of Stacy because she was working and I was working. Now I know, you know, obviously we're married, but it's like we were both working. Double income, no kids. And the moment when a child comes in, I know as a dude, dude, I feel like the provider muscle starts to flare a little bit more. So, a, what you think the common emotion is, and B, how do we make sure we don't overreact and stay calm?

[C]

I think obviously, depending on the person, it's gonna be different. I know for me, I can speak from my personal opinion and just personal experience. For me, it was kind of twofold. The idea of bringing a child into the world. And then we had this half a million dollars of debt. For me, it was a wake up call call of, I am in a. I am in a current state of struggle and financial trauma. I was like, I can't bring a child into this. I have to get my act together. Sam, we have to get our act together. We've got to create stability. So for us, it was like a lighting a fire under our butt. And then there's also kind of the historical framework. So you think about what was money like when you were a child? How did you feel? Did you feel like it was a scarcity mentality? Did you feel like it was abundant? Did you. You feel. And all of that plays into the moment when you find out we're pregnant.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And if you're not careful, it can freeze you dead in your tracks. Or you can take that and it can be just the catalyst that you need to get you moving and in the right direction, possibly for the first time ever. And so that's exactly the type of thing I'm talking about. And what no one tells you about money, how to convert those emotions into fuel to actually help you win. Foreign.

[B]

You know this. I got to tell everybody else the all new every dollar's here.

[C]

Hey.

[B]

And it's more than just a world class budgeting app. Okay. So we say that. Yeah, I mean we. There's a bunch of advanced features, all the things. But I, I think what's really cool is, is the real time help.

[C]

That's right. That's right.

[B]

Talk about that. You're in the weeds.

[C]

Oh, real time. I think the best thing is. Yeah. The coaching. The coaching aspect, not only does it create a plan that's customized for you, but we also have coaching. There's free one on one coaching that you can get involved in. There's group coaching that you can get involved in. We do webinars once a month. So you can get help from real people. Yes, there's the digital component, but there's also the human component. And I think that's the best of both worlds, baby.

[B]

Get every dollar for free today in the App Store or Google Play. And it really is fantastic. I mean, the way I like to describe it is if you've ever been familiar or been a part of or led Financial Peace University. Imagine that. Digital on steroids to the nines.

[C]

It's like having one of the personalities in your pocket. Like having Ken or I Ken in your right side pocket. Jade in your left side pocket.

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

Scary.

[B]

I was getting ready to say I thought everything was good until that. I think now everybody ran for the hills when you told them I might be in their pocket. We'll let that one go. Trevor's up in Sioux Fall Falls, South Dakota. I've been there before. You ever been to Sioux Falls?

[C]

I have not.

[B]

It's gorgeous. Falls run right through the town. Trevor is there. Trevor, how can we help?

[D]

Hey, guys. My father in law wants to gift me his portion of a family Business. And I don't know that I want to be partners with the rest of his family without him involved. I don't want to be unappreciative.

[C]

Sure.

[B]

So don't do it.

[C]

It. Do you already work in the family.

[D]

Business, so I. I manage it.

[C]

Okay. And how long have you been part of it?

[D]

This is my fourth year.

[B]

Oh boy.

[C]

And what's his stake? What. What percentage is he offering you?

[D]

He has 25% of it.

[B]

Who are, who are the other family members once he's out?

[D]

His parents and his brother.

[B]

And you work with these folks for four years?

[C]

Years.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

You've been behind the curtain and you don't want it.

[D]

I mean, ideally at some point I'd own the whole thing, but I don't know that I want to be involved.

[B]

Right. And you know your reasons.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And because it's family, I'm not going to ask you to list them because you're calling in at a show. But I. I guess my point is that's everything I need to know. Because you. It'd be one thing if, if you called and you didn't work in the business and maybe you were just adjacent and you just knew very little. I think I'd be the one that would go, you know what I would do? I would at least go kick the tires, ask a lot of questions. But the fact that you've been running the business for four years tells me you have enough evidence and I don't even need to know your reasons why. And I think in this case you got to honor your guts. Does that.

[C]

It does.

[B]

You got any head checks on there?

[C]

It does. I do have more questions just based on two things you say. Number one is you said, I wouldn't want to be in there in it without him. So I wondered, what is it about your father in law that you feel like that brings kind of like stability to the chaos?

[D]

Well, I know he's got my best interests in mind.

[E]

And.

[D]

He'S able to kind of push things like if we need to make a change on something, he's kind of able to kind of get it pushed past his family, I guess.

[C]

So he's kind of an ally. He's an ally and he kind of knows how to navigate the bs.

[B]

What position is he in right now or has he been in?

[D]

He's recently retired, so he's gotten more involved, but he just kind of helps with the day to day stuff as far as just.

[B]

Okay. But I guess my point is. So your, your position is what, What's Your title.

[D]

So I'm, I'm the manager. I'm kind of in charge of everything.

[B]

Okay. Who's above you? Who do you report to?

[D]

Basically I report to my father.

[B]

Father in, laws out.

[C]

Who do you report?

[B]

Who does he report to? If he helps get things pushed through, it implies that there's somebody above him. Who is that?

[D]

Well, his parents own 50% of it, so I guess it would be the.

[B]

Okay, that's 50. He's offering you 25. Where's the other 25? The brother, is he involved in the business?

[D]

Yeah, he used to be the manager before I got involved.

[C]

So two other questions then. First question is the parents, they've got to be aging, right? Yeah. So what happens to their cut when they leave? And when are they leaving?

[D]

It's supposed to be split between my father in law and his brother.

[C]

So you would get another 25%. So essentially at the end of the day it'd be you owning 50% and your brother and the brother owning 50%. Is that right?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay, then my next question is what's the business worth?

[D]

It's probably over a million dollars.

[C]

Huh? I was hoping for more. Okay.

[B]

Are you, do you have a. Okay, I have two quick questions. One, is it part of your plan to. If I say no now and I just keep doing a good job running the business, that once grandparents are gone and uncle and father in law are in charge and once they age out, that you just inherited all at that point you go, sure, I want it then. But only then. Is that where your head is at or do you have another play outside of this?

[D]

Yeah, I mean that's.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

What his parents, if his parents weren't involved and you're the uncle and the uncle. Yeah, I guess that would be right.

[B]

But that's a long time from now at best.

[D]

I mean his parents are in their 80s.

[B]

No, I know, but we got to go through another layer. Did you mention this to your father in law that you, you would do it if he were involved? But have you told him this is my question.

[D]

I, I've kind of. It's been, I mean we've been talking about this a little bit. So I've kind of brought it up that I don't really want to be.

[B]

Involved without him and is there from him for you to stay involved or does he go totally get it, young man. I appreciate that.

[D]

Yeah, a little bit.

[B]

I, I gave you two.

[D]

I need you to tell me business continue. But he doesn't, he's. He doesn't want to have to. I think he's getting kind of sick of dealing with his family.

[B]

Yeah, but I mean, is he pressuring you to stay in it or is he saying if you don't want it, that's totally fine? That's what I'm asking.

[D]

A, or, or B, he's not really pressuring me, but I, I mean, he knows that I want to be in this long term. I guess.

[B]

So you do want to stay in the business long term?

[D]

I do, yeah. I just.

[C]

Is there a world where. Is there. Okay, so parents, they're getting older. You got to, I got to believe they're going to age out of this in the next five to ten years. Is there a world. You said they're 80 in their 80s now.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Maybe even sooner. I mean, I mean, only you know that. But is there a world where once the parents come out and you're 50, 50 with the brother in law, is there a world where you could then buy the brother in law out financially? Are you in the position to be able to do that so you can get to a position of ownership faster?

[D]

I'm not really a financial position to do that.

[C]

Got it.

[B]

And are you okay working with the uncle?

[D]

No, I prefer not to know.

[B]

Okay. So I got to tell you something. I don't think this is worth the wait for you because it feels the uncle's going to be in charge for a good while. Yes.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, then. How old are you?

[D]

30.

[B]

Okay. You know what? I think now this is. I'm not telling you to do this, but this is under the. This is what Ken would do. I'm not saying this is what you should do. Okay. What I would do is I would tell everybody. You've already told father in law. I tell uncle in law. I'd tell grandma, granddaddy, whatever you call them. Love you. Guys, guys, I'm going to go out. I'm going to go a different path. What about I'm out And here's why. Once you go do your own thing, and the reason I'm telling you to go do your own thing, whatever that is, you go work for somebody else. You go, whatever, you just leave the business because you don't want to work with these people. You've already determined that. And you certainly don't want to wait as long as it's going to take for you to get the chance to run it. So go do your own thing. And here's what's going to happen. At some point, when uncle's ready, he's got to figure out what he's going to do. And you're probably the best candidate anyway. And so you're a young man. You're 30. I believe you said I would go another direction and let it come back to me. I know Jade's got something here.

[C]

I'm with that. I agree with Ken. I would not stick in it. I have nothing more to add to this.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, go west, young man. I think it'll come back to you. But waiting for this is not a good option. And stepping into something you know you don't want to do isn't a good option. So that means there's a far better one somewhere else. And I'd take it.

[A]

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[B]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside. Colleen is up in Calgary, Alberta. And let's go to college. Colleen, how are you doing today?

[E]

Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

[B]

You bet. What's up?

[E]

So my question is, I've been listening for a couple months and there's just. It must be a basic question, but I can't wrap my head around it. So my husband and I, we use our credit cards basically for everything, but we do pay it off every month. We've never carried a balance. I'm really interested in switching to cash only, and my question is, how do you do that so that you'd actually have money left over that you. You could last the rest of the month to then switch to cash?

[C]

Yeah. So you're kind of. You're a month behind essentially because Just.

[E]

The sole way that they work. You're always like kind of a month paying a month late.

[C]

Yeah. So the best way to do this is to, to do the budget first. Like, let's do a budget first and let's get in our mind what we honestly need for month. Not going over, not depending on a, you know, a line of credit. Just what does it take for our household to run realistically? Have you done that yet?

[E]

No, we haven't. I've been on my husband to get started with that though.

[C]

Yeah. So, okay, before we get off the call, we'll make sure that Christian gives you the all new every dollar so that you guys tonight can make that first budget. Because then you're going to have a starting place of knowing, okay, we need $5,000 a month or we need $6,000, whatever that is. And then from there I want to ask, do you happen to have any money saved?

[E]

Yeah, we do. Like, we could pay it off with our saving. Like we have a savings.

[D]

We could pay it off.

[C]

Okay, so what's, what's on the credit card now?

[D]

Wondering in general?

[E]

Yeah, we could do that for sure.

[C]

So what's, tell me real numbers, what's on the credit card now and how much do you have saved?

[E]

Oh, well, we have probably at least like 30,000 in a savings account that we could just pay it off.

[C]

And how much is on card?

[E]

Oh, probably our cards right now are only maybe like five grand.

[C]

Okay, great.

[E]

Like we could, we could pay it. I was just not maybe wanting to take it from there and pay it off and instead just make that switch.

[C]

Well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna repeat, repeat back what you wanted to do, which is you told me that you wanted to stop using the credit cards for monthly payments and just use your money. And then you agreed with me that you're essentially a month behind because that's the way credit cards work. So the only way to get in front of it is to pay off the existing debt. Well, the first step, I told you, is to make a budget so you know how much money you even need for the next month to month budget. Then the second step is now we have to get even. We have to get to zero because we have to pay off the debt. So that's the next thing you're going to reach over from that 30,000, pay off the debt, and then you're going to be at ground zero. And then now you have the budget going into the month of November and you say, okay, here's our budget now we Just use our money that we're going to get paid. That's how this works. Now we can get into the gears of how to set a budget if you want to do that. But that's the first three steps to accomplish what you said you wanted to do.

[E]

Yeah, No, I have no doubt that we could live off of like our income and what we make. So I guess it is just a matter of getting it paid off so that we're at kind of starting point with no debt with credit card and then just go from there with the budget.

[C]

Now if you have, I don't know what your income is, what's your income? Because if you can cash flow both, I'm fine with that. If you're like, hey, Jade, I actually make enough this month that I could pay off the credit card and have enough to float November's budget, that'd be pretty awesome too. What do you make?

[E]

So yearly, combined with my husband, we're probably around 1 9, 90.

[C]

Okay. What does that break down every month? What is, what do you actually bring home? This is why we need the budget.

[E]

Yeah, I'm trying to think.

[C]

Probably.

[E]

Like 10 to 12,000.

[C]

Okay. So there could, there could be a world where you can cash flow most of this and dip into savings. Very little. I'm just not sure because I haven't seen your budget. There could be things that are stopping you from it.

[E]

Yeah, for sure. That makes sense.

[B]

And I think the answer is super easy. Right? I mean, she. Listen, Jade gave you the tactical stuff, but again, I'm going to tell you something. You're going to have to realize that you're making a major change from being responsible. I think you're responsible. You're obviously responsible. Okay, but there's a difference, Jade, between being responsible and being strategic.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

And strategy is what we teach. And so the idea here is that when you know what's in your budget and you know where the money's going and you're telling the money what to do and it's doing something for you, now you're so much further ahead. So it's just a simple do exactly what she said. But then to get to the next level of we're not just using credit cards as some loosey goosey backup and we get these benefits, we're actually being strategic to win with our money. That's a big difference.

[C]

I agree. So are you going to do it?

[E]

Yeah, just. Oh yeah. I'm 100% on board and I do think it'll make us a lot More conscious of what we're spending our money on instead of just like, swipe the card and.

[C]

Yes.

[E]

Pay for whatever.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

Yeah. And let.

[B]

Yeah, go.

[C]

I was going to say, let me give you just a little nuts and bolts thing on the budget. I don't know when you get paid, but most people get paid twice a month. Usually, like on the 15th and the 30th. Right. It's kind of.

[E]

Yeah. And I'm biweekly.

[C]

Okay. So just a little nuts and bolts thing. Generally, when you're getting on a budget for the first time, the check from the 30th is going to go towards the next month. So for instance, if you got paid yesterday, that tech. Tech, tech. That check technically should go towards November. So your paychecks that you're budgeting for for the current month are from the 30th of the previous month. So the 30th of October will go for your October budget or for your November budget, and your November 15th paycheck will be on your November budget. Does that make sense? Yep.

[E]

Yeah, it does. So instead, we're just kind of paying for things before instead of after.

[C]

Yes. That way you always have the money. Huh. To pay for what you need all 30 days of the month. Because if you let that October 30th check go for October, well, the month's already over. Everything's going to be late. So that's just a little tip. A lot of people get hung up on that.

[E]

Okay, awesome. No, that sounds really good.

[B]

All right. Thank you for the call, Colleen. Yeah. There's a lot of people. We get this question a lot. And it's always fun for people. If I'll meet somebody and then they find out I work at Ramsey Solutions, and they'll be like, okay, hey, so. Okay. By the way, you gotta ask the question. It always drops down.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you know what I'm talking about?

[C]

Yeah. It's like.

[B]

It's not a secret.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I gotta.

[B]

Hold on. Okay, so let me. Let me just. Let me. Let me just ask, like, what's the problem with just, you know, we pay everything and we pay it off, you know, and it's. It's really fun how that happens. But again, our. It's. It's. It's less about. I think sometimes we get painted with this brush here at Ramsey Solutions that we're just anti. Everything and we're not.

[C]

Right.

[B]

You know what I mean? It's. It's. We're for your money winning.

[C]

Yes. And we want you to feel good about it. We want you to feel like you're the one in control. We don't want you to do the things that we teach because Jade and Ken said so.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[C]

We want you to do it because. Because it makes sense to you. You like the idea of peace. You like the idea of freedom and being in control of your money and in your. With your emotions as well.

[B]

Yeah, it's, it's. It is always funny to me when somebody goes, okay, I think I get it. And by the way, this call is a great example, by the way, of realizing, oh, this isn't just anti credit card. There's a bigger strategy at play.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And she's beginning to see it. And the light bulb goes off there as she says, yes, I can see how this is going to help us when we know where our money is. And we're going to be even more strategic, more responsible.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Cash does that.

[C]

And I liked her call because I actually talk about that in the book. What no one tells you about money. I go through each baby step and I say what it is and then I say what it actually feels like and what it actually means. And it's juicy. It's juicy. Let me tell you. I'm telling you the raw and the real. I don't hold back.

[B]

All right?

[A]

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[B]

All right, let's talk insurance real quick. Everybody needs it. But you may not need as much as you think, or you may have too much. And you need to find somebody who's a pro, not somebody that's looking to make a buck off of you, but people who know their stuff want to take care of you.

[A]

And you can do that with a.

[B]

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[D]

Hey, how are you doing today?

[B]

We're doing great. What's going on?

[D]

So recently came into some lottery money.

[B]

Whoa, let's not, let's not roll right by that. How much did we win? Win, sir?

[D]

So we won right at 200 after taxes. It was 350.

[B]

And they took 200 is what you take home. Yeah.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Wow. Was that state lottery?

[D]

Yeah, it was a state kind of a second chance thing they do.

[C]

Wow, that's something. Okay, you know what?

[B]

I've never had anybody on the show. Can I ask one quick follow up? I've never taken a lottery call on the show. Was this a random?

[A]

Random.

[B]

I'm in the grocery store or I'm at the gas station and I see the ticker and I go, I'm gonna shoot my shot. Or is this. Are you like a guy who played it all the time?

[D]

Well, I was a guy that played it all the time when this, when this kind of happened. I since stopped playing, but they said it was a second chance. So you scan a ticket and they put your name in a hat for a second chance and they luckily drew my name.

[C]

Wow, dude, that's so funny.

[B]

Okay, all right. To the reason you called. What, what's your question?

[D]

All right, so prior to this, I was very not financially savvy. Like I was credit card debt, student debt, personal loans. Essentially I was working week to week and going down to zero or sometimes negative in my account. So with this, my plan is to go ahead, pay off all of my debt, which is about $30,000, and potentially put a down payment on a house. House. My wife's car just broke down to potentially get her a new car. But what I don't want to do is mess it up and get back to where I was a month ago. Week to week getting down to zero in my account.

[B]

Well, let's talk about that first. Let's talk about that because you got Jade here to walk you through this. Describe for her what you think was the cause of you being week to week, never having enough there because that wasn't that long ago. So presumably we have it so solved what was going on. So describe what you think is the source of that.

[D]

I think, I think I got credit Cards in the mail. And I was like, okay, I can use those. And I just started overspending and not paying attention to my spending.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

And then, you know, I had other debts that I just kind of just kept piling on. I just was not being responsible.

[C]

Understood. What. What's your income?

[D]

I make about 105 a year.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

So it's not like you're scrapping.

[C]

And is it just you, or is there a wife, kids, anything?

[D]

I just married my wife two weeks ago, and we have three kids.

[C]

Three kids. Okay. And does she work outside the house?

[D]

Yeah, she does work.

[C]

What'd she make?

[D]

Roughly 40.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

Our finances have been separate, but okay.

[C]

But they're coming together. I think the key here is you've got to look at what you're bringing home every single month. You've got to look at what you have to spend, what's your margin? And you've gotta just give every dollar an assignment. And then that's the practical part. But then the emotional part of actually sticking to it, Ken, is what's gonna be your struggle. Because if you set out and say, hey, we're only spending $150 on restaurants. Restaurants. And you write that on paper, now it's your chance to say, am I going to be the person that keeps the promises to myself? Or I'm going to. Am I going to be a person that flakes out every single time? Am I going to be a person that I can depend on, that I. I can depend on me to say what I do? I. What I say I'm going to do, I'm actually going to do? Or are you going to let your emotions lead you and go, well, I work hard. I deserve to go to Applebee's one more time. Right. That's where the real battle starts. So I love that he asked the question, because you know, as much as Ken and I do know, know that the $200,000, that is a wonderful thing. You had some good luck. But that is not the solve of the problem. The solve of the problem is Matt deciding that he's gonna be a guy who can look in the mirror and trust himself to do what he says.

[B]

He'S gonna do and have a process for doing it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

In other words, if you say, hey, I want to get insurance, shape, put on muscle, cut up, or I want to put on 15 pounds of muscle or I want to lose 50 pounds of weight, you've got to have a process. You can't just say, I want it to happen, expect it to happen.

[C]

Right.

[B]

You got to have a process that is attached to a willingness to change. And so I'm going to start with the budget for you. You didn't know what was going on with any of your money. So let's take care of the man. Let's get him, let's get him in every dollar.

[C]

Get him in every dollar.

[B]

And, and I think you need a. Give him a. What does he do tonight with every dollar to change this around?

[C]

Yep. Tonight you sit down with your wife and you put all the numbers and you're going to put in what you guys earn. You're going to pull up the HR website, you're going to look at your check stubs after taxes. That's the number that you're going to put into the budget. Then you're going to go back and you're going to look at all your bank statements and you're going to put accurate numbers for. Okay, we already know, yes, this is our cell phone payment, utilities, we know our mortgage or our rent payment. But what do we really spend on groceries? What do we really spend going out to eat? What do we really spend on gas? And you're going to plug those numbers in so you have an accurate picture of, okay, this is what it takes to run my lifestyle. And then you're going to say, okay, honey, we've got this money. That's enough to break us free. It's going to, it's going to give us a get out of jail free card on this debt on the car and it's even going to help us get a down payment. But today we look ourselves in the eye and say, but this is our real income, 150,000. And this is what we get to live, live on. And we have to be okay with that. We don't have to keep up with anybody else. It's just us and you guys. You have to kind of, you know, decide that you're both going to do that and that you're both going to hold each other accountable because trust and believe there's going to be temptations. Obviously, there's always another trip to take. There's always a better car to buy. Right. There's always a nicer restaurant to eat at. But you have to be okay with what your life's lifestyle is. So don't squander this. And I don't think you will if you internalize what we're saying.

[B]

Yeah, hang on the line. We're going to get you started in every dollar. Stay tuned into the show. Create some accountability to where you go, okay, I'm now living this. I'm putting in new financial data into my head as opposed to living like everybody else.

[C]

And let's, let's talk about that for a minute. Ken, you talked about getting cut, working out, trying to get muscles, whatever the goal is.

[B]

I'm trying to keep up with your book cover. Let's be honest.

[C]

You are likening it to getting on a plan with your money.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And a lot of people forget that they've got to set themselves up for success.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Because if you're trying to get ripped, do you want to know what you don't keep on the counter?

[B]

Chips.

[C]

Oreos.

[B]

Oreos.

[C]

Halloween candy.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[C]

All right, listen, I said that. And there is a bowl of Halloween candy on my counter right now at home.

[B]

Wait till I get the tax when I get home.

[C]

Let me tell you something.

[B]

I take a tax on whatever Mrs. Coleman has bought. For the little ones that are coming by tonight, Mr. Coleman takes a tax.

[C]

Chef snack. That's a chef snack.

[B]

I go through it all. I go, I'll have one of these. Thank you very much. But you know, if I cheat tonight on some candy, as I will, guess what?

[C]

You got to pay for it later.

[B]

Pay for it tomorrow.

[C]

Don't you pay for it?

[B]

So you a. You got to have a process. You know what you do? So the first thing you do do is I'm playing along with you. I'm going to go, all right, I'm going to eat better. So I got to remove the junk, but I also got to put good stuff in my body.

[C]

You got to put it there, and.

[B]

You got to have protein. You want to add muscle. You got to have X amount of grams of protein. So it's not just what I eliminate, frivolous spending.

[C]

Yes, it is.

[B]

Watch this. Instead of listening to everybody else who's broke, maybe I buy Jade Warshaw's book. Maybe I listen to the Ramsey show two or three times a week or every. I'm going to put good money practices good money philosophy in as well. It's like putting protein in my body in order that the workout, I get the maximum out of it.

[C]

I'm with you, Ken. And make it easy. If I put healthy food in the refrigerator, I put it at eye level so I can just grab it. It's the first thing I see. And it's the same thing with this. You need to be setting reminders in your phone to check your every dollar budget. You need to be doing the things that are right there at eye level. Put the podcast. Let that be the first podcast that pops up. Stop unf, unfollow all of the ads and the things that unsubscribed, all the things that are trying to sell you in your email and on social media and start following people like Ken Coleman and myself. Set yourself up to succeed with money so that when the time comes, it's an easy choice. It's right there in front of you.

[B]

You keep preaching like that, I might do an altar call, have a baptismal service right here in the studio. By the way, I have gone out to eat with this one and her husband and she orders the cleanest stuff. Ain't no fun, folks.

[C]

I try. Ever feel like you're doing everything right with money but still stuck? I was you in debt. Running hard but taking three steps forward and two steps steps back. Turns out it's not the numbers, it's the fact that changing our ways with money is emotional. That's why I wrote my brand new book, what no one tells you about Money. To help you push past what's really been sabotaging your progress so you can finally win. You can pre order now and score over 100 in free bonus items just go to ramseysolutions.com store.

[B]

All right, let's go to Megan in Spokane, Washington. Megan, how can we help today?

[E]

Hi, thanks for taking my call.

[A]

You bet.

[B]

What's up?

[E]

I was, I'm calling because I'm a single mom and I'm in baby step 3B and so I'm currently only saving up to my match in my retirement, but I live in a really expensive area and you know, like, don't want to move really because the, like, it helps to have a lot of community when you're trying to raise a kid on your own. So like I'm trying to figure out if I were, like, if I were to really realistically try to buy a house under like the Ramsey guidelines, I would probably need like a $200,000 down payment.

[C]

Huh. Yes.

[E]

With my current income and that would take me like I'm saving very aggressively. I have a really good living situation right now, but it would take me still probably over five years to do that. So I'm kind of wondering like it seems too long to pause my retirement, but then I'm going to be even saving longer if I wait, if I don't pause retirement. So yeah, just kind of wondering what your guys thoughts are about that, like if it would be smarter to pause my retirement and maybe just, just save what I can and give up having a house or like it feels like it would provide a lot of security to have a house.

[C]

You are correct, it does provide security to have a house. You do. I mean that's the largest line item on your budget and to have that stabilized is very, very, it's a very, very important part of security and wealth building. So you're exactly right.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

You're also right on how tough to it is to save up a down payment because gone are the days where you can just say oh, put 20% down and you know now you're right at 25% of your take home. That math is, is different now. So in order to make the payment 25% of your take home, in many cases you're putting down well above 20%. In some cases you're putting like 50 and 60% down in order to make that happen. That's just the reality. So for, for you, probably what I would do is I would go when you're in baby step 3B, you do have the opportunity, you have the, the choice to say I'm either going to kind of split and I'm going to do some investing and some saving for the down payment or you can say I'm just going to go ham on the down payment and get that done. If I were in your shoes, I'd start there. I'd start on not investing. I'd start on everything going to the down payment. And then probably at the three year mark is when I would say okay, I have to start putting some, something into retirement. And I realize that's going to make me go slower. But hopefully by then there's some change that's happened. Your income has gone up, maybe your life has changed in a way to where there's more income coming in. But I want to, if you were here right now, I'd be looking you dead in your eye and validating the fact that it is tough. It's, it's a longer timeline than what people are used to and it is a lot more money that must be put down on the front end than what people are used to. To. But I would also tell you if it makes you feel any better, for my husband and I, we had a 10 year, we had to wait 10 years to do our house mostly for oh wow. Yeah, for us. Cuz we started out broke and we had to clean up debt but time is time, right? And the, the biggest thing I can leave you with is when the day comes and you have the money and you put it down and you move in that house, it's all going to have been worth it.

[B]

I'd like to ask.

[E]

Yeah, I love having a timeline on that. Like, that feels good.

[B]

And I love that Jade acknowledged how tough this is in the current situation. But I'm going to push a little bit because I think sometimes there's more than one way. And certainly waiting longer is fine. It stinks to tell people that. But just because it takes longer doesn't mean that it's still not the best decision. And you've already got a good living situation. Situation. How much of a house are we talking about? How much. How much are we looking at? How big is this house and what price point?

[E]

I mean, I live in a tiny house right now, so I am definitely not looking for a big house. Like, I'm living in a tiny house that I built, and so I'm.

[B]

Oh, an actual tiny house?

[E]

Yeah, I built a tiny house when I was, like, along, like, five years ago. So I'm living in that house now. And I would be very happy with just even putting my tiny house on.

[D]

A piece of property.

[E]

Property. But I'm just having a hard time finding a property that I could even put it there.

[B]

Well, tell us, though. But you've got it.

[E]

Not a huge house.

[B]

Right. But I just want to have some fun with the numbers for a minute. All right, so what, based on what you've told us, you've got a number in mind, correct? A price point?

[E]

Yeah. Well, I'm thinking, like, the average houses in our area are between, like, like around $400,000.

[C]

Okay.

[E]

For like a pretty, like a small, you know, house.

[B]

Yeah. Like how. Okay, so. So there's Nothing in the 300,000 or 250,000 range.

[E]

Not that I have seen recently, but that, you know, it could fluctuate a little bit. Like, I think it could be possible, like, 350 could come up eventually, but that's not like, a very common.

[B]

How close do you have to be to where you work? What's that situation?

[E]

Well, my daughter is in a school, so it's more. I work remotely, which is wonderful. So I, I. But my daughter goes to school every day, so I'm driving her. I'm driving in town twice a day to get her.

[B]

Where is your tiny house? Are you renting the land or the space?

[E]

I am renting the land, basically. Yeah. So it's in Coca Lala. I don't know if you.

[B]

No, I don't know where it is. I guess what I'm saying is that if all I'm Doing is encouraging you. I'm not in any way. Tisk, Tisk, you should be doing something different than you're doing. But I certainly will be looking at every opportunity to go, okay, if I could find something that's a little bit cheaper, that shortens my timeline. Right. Because it's less. I have to save, and I'm now going to incrementally work my way up. And you're actually a prime candidate for that, given the fact that you're in a tiny home. And I also think if I were you, and you love the tiny home, and you go, hey, if I could find land, I'd get really aggressive in looking for something like that because it might be a lot cheaper than a house.

[E]

Yeah. And I could always build a house.

[B]

On it later down the line.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

That's right. And so let's say you get. Go ahead.

[E]

Oh.

[A]

So just.

[E]

There's also an opportunity to build, to buy a house that's cheaper because it's with a, like, group that has a deed restriction. And I'm a little bit hesitant to do a deed restriction. It's like, you basically don't own the land. You own the house, and then you have to sell it. Like, you can't sell it at market value. You have to sell it at, like.

[C]

Don't do that.

[D]

No, don't do that.

[C]

No, no.

[E]

That.

[B]

Never want to buy something that comes with all these restrictions. Like, I didn't buy anything. I signed up for some deal that has all these problems with it.

[C]

And you're not desperate.

[B]

Yeah, that's right.

[C]

That's the thing. You got to remember, you're not desperate, but you are a person who had a timeline, and you have a timeline that you want to make. And the hardest part of all of this is readjusting expectations. You know, that's. That's the emotional aspect of this. You know, the numbers. I don't think we have to go over that. You understand the benefits of the numbers. But the hardest part is the part of you that's gotta go, man. This is. I'm disappointed. This is not gonna happen as quickly as I wanted it to.

[E]

Yeah. And I am. You're right. I am disappointed. And I'm a little scared, if I'm being honest.

[C]

Well, yeah, the fear says, what if I wait too long? What if I'm priced out of the market? What if I. You know, a lot can happen in the next five to six years. So there's a fear of the unknown that's there.

[B]

Um, and you Built your tiny home.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yourself?

[E]

Yes. Like, with help, obviously. But. Yeah, but I was a. Yeah.

[B]

That's amazing. So I'm. I'm not trying to turn you into Joanna Gaines, but I would also if you can find something that's not a death trap, that doesn't end up costing you more money, but like, with a little bit of love and tenderness, you know, and it's structurally sound. In other words, it's got good bones. You know, that might be a steal for you, too, especially being a single mom with one kid you're used to living, you know, in some little thing that I'm sure looks amazing, by the way.

[C]

But I just.

[B]

I guess my thing is, is that when I'm in a situation like you're in, and I know that there's a good long term play and it's going to require patience, then I know, okay, that will win. The tortoise beats the hare every time. All right. However, it never hurts to go. Have I looked at everything? Have I turned over every stone? You know what I mean? And I guess that's my only encouragement. Does hurt. You're not gonna do anything stupid. You've been very smart to this point. So I'm not saying turn over every crazy stone. Like, I'm glad you brought up the one situation, because that could be tempting. No, don't do that. Where they're gonna force you to sell and you don't own the dirt underneath your house. Like, that's not a stone we want to turn over. Or if we turn it over, we see a bug, we go, ooh. And we turn the stone back over, we run. So that's one that you do there. But I would look at everything that you possibly can to see. Can I progressively step into something because I'm making good financial decisions along the way?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Our scripture today is Psalm 37, verses 3 through 4. Trust in the Lord and do good. Dwell in the the land and enjoy safe pasture. Take delight in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart. Our quote from Maya Angelou today I've learned that you shouldn't go through life with a catcher's mitt on both hands. You need to be able to throw something back.

[C]

I love that. I love that.

[B]

So fun. You know, we've had. It's interesting. We were just talking with James, our fearless producer. Been a lot of calls today where we've seen the emotional side of money.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Talked about. And you and I were talking about this earlier today. There's so much fear.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

That is involved in money decisions. And you write about the emotional side of money in your new book, what no one tells you about money. And that is the emotional side, how very difficult it is to win with money and also process all of the range of emotions that come with money and its rhythm in life.

[C]

That's right. We saw it in a couple of calls today. We saw the young lady who had. She wanted to stop using credit cards, and she had the money in savings to pay off the credit cards and start fresh. But there was fear there. We saw it with the previous caller who was like, I'm afraid I'm never going to be able to buy a house if I say keep saving at this rate with the market the way it is. And we've seen it throughout, woven throughout other calls as well. And I want to take a moment, Ken, I want to read this section out of the book specifically about fear. It says fear is a negative expectation of the fear future based on a rational or irrational belief. So if you think about that, some of our fears are totally. They're like, totally valid. It's like, this is rational. I could see where that's coming from. Some of them are irrational. But I go on to say I added the element about the future because if you think about it, fear is rarely about what's happening in the moment. It's really about our perception. It's really about our perceived outcome or what we think is going to happen in the future. Future. If I do this, then some negative thing will happen later. That's what we think. And. And it's never about what's happening in the moment. We're projecting ahead and going, oh, gosh, if I do this, that thing's going to happen out there and that thing's. And we really don't know. And so in the book, I walk through understanding that and taking a moment and just writing out, what is it that you're afraid of? What is it? Write it down. Because when you can look at it staring back at you at the page, it has a whole. A whole different life.

[B]

Right. It's great.

[C]

And then you can ask yourself, is this actually true? Is it rational or is it irrational?

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And I have found that the irrational one ones can. They tend to be kind of vague. It's kind of like, oh, I'm afraid I'm gonna mess everything up if I do that. Well, that's kind of vague. What do you mean by that? What are you gonna mess up? Who's. How are you gonna pay? But the more rational Ones tend to be a little bit dialed down. Well, Jade, I'm afraid if I take a side hustle, hustle, it's going to be when I come home from work in the evenings, which means I won't be able to pick up my kids, which means I'll miss their softball practice, which means. Right, and you've really dialed it down. That's probably a little bit more rash, rational, and we can talk about that. But once you've written the fear down, once you've asked yourself, is it true or is it not true, is it rational or is it irrational, Then we can get about the business of landing on. Well, what is, what is a more truthful statement that I want to replace that fear with?

[B]

Yeah, it's absolutely right. I love it. Just want to. One of the many times that you talk about emotions, by the way, we've told you about it because it, it goes on pre sale today. So exciting. What no one tells you about money. You can pre order it right now. You get it for the best price. 24.99 ramseysolutions.com store you get to see Jade's phenomenal arms on the COVID as well. That's bonus the arms.

[C]

Forget about the content inside.

[B]

Yeah, that comes with the book. That's just, that's just bonus content. For those of you, men and women, women alike, that would like to have better arms, it will motivate you.

[C]

Better arms, Better money starts today.

[B]

There it is. That's the subtitle of the book. But no, you can get it right now. Fabulous book, by the way. We don't have a book like this.

[C]

No, we don't.

[B]

And there's not a book about the emotional side of money. So this is a great book that I'll tell you, just personally is hand in glove with anything else we've ever written on money because if you don't understand the emotional side of it, you can and will many times get tripped up because you are a human.

[C]

You're right, it is human.

[B]

And you know, we think about human doing, but we forget sometimes that we're actual human beings and the human being part makes the human doing part harder. And Jade's come alongside of us and given us a real life, a real life story full of stories. Oh, it's all stories on how to win with it. So you're really going to enjoy it. Go get it now. Ryan is up in Virginia. Ryan, how can we help today?

[D]

Well, good afternoon, Ken and Jay. How are you doing today?

[B]

We're doing well. What's happening with you?

[D]

Well, I seem to have some decision paralysis, and I was wondering if you could just give me some help. I'm a natural saver, and at the moment I have about $180,000 in cash savings. And I'm just trying to figure out how to. How to best deploy it for retirement, eventually purchasing a home and just the future.

[B]

Okay, so do you have any debts would be helpful? No.

[D]

Debt free.

[B]

All right, so you're familiar with the baby steps?

[D]

Yes.

[B]

What baby step are you?

[D]

On my understanding, I believe 4, 5, and 6.

[B]

Okay, so you are actively investing in this 180 is above and beyond your normal 15% that you're putting into retirement?

[D]

Yes. Yeah, currently I have, if I did my math right, about 20% going into retirement through a mandatory retirement with my state and then a supplementary 403B.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

And what is your emergency fund? Is it three months, four months, five months, six months. How much is it?

[D]

It's just the 180.

[B]

Okay, so what would be three months. Months of your expenses?

[D]

Three months of my expenses would be $4,500.

[C]

Okay. And is it just you?

[D]

It's just me. I'm single.

[B]

Okay, three. Hold on a second. Three months expenses is $4,500?

[D]

Yeah, I live pretty frugally.

[C]

What's it. What's your. I mean, for. What's your.

[B]

You live under a roof?

[C]

What's your rent? What do you pay for rent?

[D]

Yeah, that's about. At the moment. I pay. I. I rent a room from family members. So in addition to monetary blood and sweat, so.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

Current rent's about $400.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

How much blood and sweat are we giving? Sounds pretty gross.

[D]

Just enough to keep things the household moving.

[C]

All right.

[B]

Who are you living with?

[D]

With my parents.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

How old are you?

[D]

34.

[C]

How much.

[B]

How much do you make again? What's your take home?

[D]

Take home monthly is a little over 4,000.

[B]

Hey, bro, you're 34. It's time to flee the net.

[C]

Yeah, what's up with that?

[D]

I know, I know.

[C]

We.

[D]

We've talked about it.

[B]

Who's we?

[D]

I have me and my brother, so he's pretty open financially.

[B]

How old your bro.

[E]

Now?

[D]

He's 32.

[C]

So your brother is like, hey, man, it's time, right?

[D]

Oh, no, he's. He's also on the property.

[C]

Oh, no.

[B]

That's what I'm getting at. You got two brothers who are still living home. I assume there's no women on the radar for either one of you, right?

[C]

Women on the radar.

[D]

Huh, not at the moment.

[B]

Do you think there might be a correlation between the fact that you're mid to low 30s, living with your brother at your mom and dad's house?

[D]

As probably some of it. The other is I don't, I'm a homebody, so.

[C]

Yes, but be a homebody in your own home.

[B]

Yeah. Okay, well, it's not a dating show, so regardless of no women being on the screen, you need to be out on your own. So you got $180,000. I'll give it to Jade. We get, we got about a minute and a half happen. Yeah, he's got 180 in cash, no debt. He's investing about 20%.

[C]

Jade, I know. So here's what I want you to do.

[B]

And he's washing the dishes every night. I forgot to mention that thing.

[C]

Number one is I want tonight your homework tonight is go go look and see where you can rent an apartment. Start doing research on places that areas of town you want to live in and find out how much an apartment is. Okay. And then what I want you to do with that information of the apartment, tell your brother. Well, yeah, listen, there's your roommate.

[B]

At least let's get them both out at the same time.

[C]

For the first time ever, I want you to live on your own.

[B]

Yeah, I agree. I agree you can afford it.

[D]

I have lived on my own before.

[C]

Good. And you're gonna do it again. And what I want you to do, once you've figured out how much rent is now, I want you to save up a real three to six months of expenses based off of that number because the $400, the 4,500, that's not going to serve you once you move out. So do it based off the rent numbers of a real place and then after that when's move in date because that's really all you need. You've got the money. And then I would turn around and with the money that you have, I would keep it in a high yield savings account because you're going to keep adding to it because eventually you're going to go from renting a place to buying your own place. So don't invest it, keep it liquid because you're going to do that in less than five years.

[B]

And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.