A Past Gambling Problem Is Haunting His Financial Future

Summary

The Ramsey Show — A Past Gambling Problem Is Haunting His Financial Future

Date: November 5, 2025
Host(s): George Campbell, Dr. John DeLoney (Ramsey Network)
Theme: Overcoming mistakes, facing financial fears, breaking free from debt, and building a strong financial future—no matter what money mess you’ve made.

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles real-life callers facing some of the toughest financial and emotional issues—from the aftermath of gambling addiction, overpowering debt, confusing financial products, and tough family choices. George Campbell and Dr. John DeLoney guide listeners and callers through principles of taking personal responsibility, being intentional with money, and finding emotional and spiritual peace in financial decision-making.

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Key Call Highlights and Advice

1. Dealing with the Lingering Effects of Gambling Debt

[00:41–08:26] Rob in Kansas City

• Situation:
  • $8,000 credit card debt (from previous gambling issue, now on 0% interest balance transfer)
  • $20,000 cash savings
  • $28,000 left on truck loan
  • $100,000 annual income at age 26
  • Friends advise using all cash to pay off debt; Rob is hesitant to fully drain savings due to past scarcity, fear of going “back to zero,” and newly developed over-saving tendencies.
• Advice / Insights:
  • George: Reminds Rob he’s prolonging the pain by sitting on cash while keeping the debt—this comfort slows progress.
  • Dr. John:
    • Digs into the emotional residue from gambling: “Are you completely through with your gambling past?” [03:45]
    • Identifies that Rob may have traded gambling for the “addiction” of saving money (“You’ve hacked your way to safety, but now you’re leaning on cash as your safety blanket” [05:17])
    • Explains that true exhale and healing comes from facing uncomfortable actions (like writing the final check):

      “Comfort is through the other side of discomfort. You want to call mile 15 the end of the marathon. But true exhale is on the other side of finally being done with all of the gambling stuff...” [05:36]

    • Urges Rob to pay off the debt now; discomfort and the final step is how confidence and healing are built.
  • George and John both: Recommend putting almost all savings toward the debt, keeping only a small emergency fund, and especially tackling the car loan before marriage.
• Memorable Moment:
  • Rob candidly admits his fear of “starting over,” but is encouraged to take the leap and finish this hard chapter—especially before starting a new life with his fiancée.
• Key Quote:
  • “Set it down, man. Send it today and be forever done with both the action of gambling and the consequences of that.” – Dr. John [06:43]

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2. Should You Use Savings to Wipe Out Debt?

[10:22–19:16] Chase in New York

• Situation:
  • $60,000 saved + $17,000 more from unallocated direct deposit
  • $15,000 car loan (5.79%), $71,000 student loans (3.74%), $620,000 mortgage
  • Interested in using lump sum to pay down loans but has automated payments and isn’t “feeling” the debt emotionally.
• Advice / Insights:
  • George:
    • “Do you want to do math, or do you want to get out of debt? Which is more important to you?” [10:48]
    • Advocates for attacking all debt in one go, keeping $1,000 emergency fund, arguing speed trumps minute interest savings.
  • Dr. John:
    • Flips the psychology: “If you hate it, you can go take out a $70,000 HELOC after you’re debt free. But nobody ever regrets paying off everything.” [15:09]
  • George: Walks them through how fast—given their high income—they can rebuild savings after being debt-free.
  • Key Insight:
    • Complexity (too many accounts, direct deposits everywhere, “middle-class games”) hinders wealth; simplicity and velocity beat obsessive interest tracking.
• Key Quote:

  “You’re like a rat in the maze… you can just opt out.” – George [16:39]

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3. Universal Life Insurance and “Stupid Tax”

[22:57–29:39] Amanda in Salt Lake City

• Situation:
  • Couple, debt-free and paid-off house, bought into expensive Indexed Universal Life Policy ($1,000/mo), worried it’s a mistake.
• Advice / Insights:
  • George: “Most of the money you’re putting in is going to commissions and fees... a small percentage goes to the house [coverage].” [24:17]
    • Explains term life vs. whole/universal/indexed life; recommends replacing it ASAP with affordable term life, freeing massive monthly cash for actual investments.
  • Dr. John: Reinforces real wealth means true ownership, not complex insurance products you don’t understand and don’t need.
  • Key Quote:

    “Venmo me $1,000 a month and I’ll send you a nice note every day. You’d make more doing that.” – Dr. John [24:13]

• Notable Emotional Moment:
  • Amanda doubts her own financial savvy, but hosts reassure her: “You’re light years ahead of most Americans.” [27:35–28:21]
  • Reminder: paid-off house and a substantial nest egg means you’re already winning—don’t let “experts” complicate it for their benefit.

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4. Using Home Equity for School Tuition—A Spiritual and Practical Gut Check

[37:04–42:28] Bill in Sacramento

• Situation:
  • Wants to use home equity for kids’ private Christian school since hours/income dropped. Would cover tuition, upcoming expenses, and cars.
• Advice / Insights:
  • Dr. John: Advocates against debt, especially putting your home at risk for school:

    “The borrower is slave to the lender... I’d rather your kids see you make tough choices out of love and responsibility than lose the family’s peace-of-mind for a season of private school.” [38:43]

  • George: Adds that HELOC would just add more stress in already tight times; better to discuss with kids about temporary re-adjustment and take ownership of spiritual guidance at home.
  • Key Insight: Sometimes “the best for our kids” is teaching them how families adapt, not buying security with future risk.
  • Key Quote:

    “I would not be a good fellow dad if I told you the right thing is to borrow against your home for private school…” – Dr. John [40:54]

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5. Recovering After Bankruptcy, Debt, and Camper Living

[44:10–52:15] Tyler in Fort Worth

• Situation:
  • After Chapter 13, $150K debt (truck, camper, student loans). Living in a camper to save rent, but underwater on both truck and camper.
• Advice:
  • George: Encourages selling camper and truck even at a loss to escape negative equity, argues against clinging to “cheaper” housing that guarantees stagnation.
  • Dr. John: Calls for deep ownership of every choice (“Say: I chose this, not ‘I had to’...” [48:31]); emotional acceptance unlocks real change.
  • Key Insight: “Comfort” and “convenient” solutions keep you stuck—true comfort comes after short-term discomfort and full responsibility.
  • Practical Step: Make a strict budget, sell what you can, direct all margin to debt, and commit for a year—“You can be free by Christmas next year.”

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6. ‘Should I Buy a New Car on My Brother’s Advice?’

[54:13–59:18] Bailey in Florida (audio)

• Situation:
  • Owes $18,790 on a Honda Civic worth $17,500; brother wants her to buy a new Ford Maverick with “employee discounts.”
• Advice:
  • George: Strong warning against buying new car while in debt; “Your brother is not your financial advisor—he’s selling to you.”
  • Dr. John: Points to Honda Civic’s reliability; no need to upgrade, “You basically have a car with a lifetime warranty: it’s called a Honda Civic.”
  • Key Principle: Don’t replace one debt with another; sell and downgrade if it gets you out of a deeper hole, not into a shinier one.

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7. Massive Student Loans & Wealth Guilt: Physicians and Debt Despair

[106:16–114:47] Jenna in Florida

• Situation:
  • $475K husband’s student loans, $47K more, large car loan & mortgage; $16K/month net income; feeling hopeless and considering “giving up” on debt.
• Advice:
  • George: Lays out that pausing all investing & stretching budget can free $100K+ for debt payoff in 3-4 years, achieving true freedom instead of “minimum payments for life.”
  • Dr. John: Urges humility and sacrifice—stop acting like “doctors,” act like teachers for 3 years to buy freedom and long-term wealth, not present comfort.

    “You’re making daily choices to be miserable.”

  • Emotional Insight:
    • Reminds her: patients don't want a frazzled, stressed-out, in-debt physician; choosing peace serves both your family and your calling.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On transferring addiction:

  • “It sounds like you traded one addiction for another.”—Dr. John DeLoney [07:44]

• On complicated finances:

  • “You’re like a rat in the maze... Just opt out. You’re too successful to be doing this math.”—George Campbell [16:39]

• On life insurance traps:

  • “Venmo me $1,000 a month and I’ll send you a nice note every day. You’d make more doing that.”—Dr. John DeLoney [24:13]

• On tough but loving parenting:

  • “Sometimes the best for our kids is letting them see us adapt, not just buying security with future risk.”—Dr. John DeLoney [40:54]

• On paying off vehicles:

  • “I don’t want my doctor to be stressed out because she can barely make her payments... I want her to exhale and be completely autonomous when making the next right decision for my daughter, not worrying about payments.”—Dr. John DeLoney [End of physician call]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:41] – Gambling debt aftermath & psychology, Rob in KC
• [02:47] – Discussion on debt mindset and use of savings
• [03:25-04:24] – Dr. John’s deep-dive on addiction transfer
• [05:17] – Rob’s confession of money as a “warm blanket”
• [10:22] – Chase’s debt lump sum question
• [22:57] – Amanda’s Indexed Universal Life Insurance woes
• [37:04] – Bill’s home equity for school tuition
• [44:10] – Tyler’s post-bankruptcy debt and camper dilemma
• [54:13] – Bailey’s “Should I buy a new car?” audio question
• [106:16] – Jenna’s high-income, high-debt doctor family dilemma

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Conclusion

This episode showcases real financial healing—not just technical debt payoff strategies, but confronting the emotional, spiritual, and familial roots that keep us stuck. The Ramsey Show’s approach blends empathy, tough love, and actionable steps:

• Take responsibility (“It’s choices, not circumstances.”)
• Don’t let comfort slow growth
• Simplify, don’t complicate.
• Finish the hard things for true peace
• Live below your means; avoid new debt
• Let generosity and values drive your long-term plan—not fear or shame.

If you haven’t listened, this episode lays bare both the math and the soul work it takes to truly get free from your money mistakes—no matter how bad they are.

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[Note: Timestamps and speaker attributions included for clarity. Ads, promos, and unrelated book pitches have been omitted.]

Transcript

[Announcer]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[George Campbell]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell joined by best selling author Dr. John DeLoney. And we're taking your calls at 8, 8 8. We're here to help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Rob is in Kansas City. What's going on, Rob? How can we help today?

[Caller]

Yeah, hi, George. How you doing this afternoon?

[George Campbell]

Great. What's going on with you?

[Caller]

I'm doing all right. Longtime listener and I figured it'd be time to give you guys a call. I'm in an interesting situation here and I'm kind of pushing back. So a couple of my best friends are very good with financials. I would say I trust them. And my situation here, and I'm looking for your advice is that I owe $8,000 on a credit card. And that stems from a gambling issue that I had years ago that is no longer a problem. I balance transferred that money to a 0% interest card for 15 months. I have $20,000 in cash and savings. I have a truck payment. I drive a F150 Raptor used. I owe $28,000 on the truck. I make roughly $100,000 a year and I'm 26 years old. So the question here and what my friends are advising you to do, George, is for me to take the $20,000 that I have in cash and put all $20,000 towards my truck and my credit card debt. And the pushback that I gave to them, George, is that I don't want to completely wipe out my cash that I have on hand in case of an emergency. And baby step number one is to save $1,000. So just wanting to see what your thoughts are on that. Thank you, George.

[George Campbell]

Wonderfully put. Okay. And so you don't agree with your friends and in turn you don't agree with us, which is fine. You know, you can hang on to the debt as long as you want and hang on to the emergency fund as long as you want. What we have found is people generally get comfortable with their debt when they have a pile of money in savings. And so it's actually psychologically going to take you longer to pay off the debt because you don't feel the fire that is actually happening in your backyard right now. And so I think if you put 19 of that 20 toward the debt that would knock out your credit cards completely, giving you a lot of momentum and knock out a significant portion of your car loan.

[Caller]

Correct?

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Caller]

The issue that I have, George, is, you know, I. I'm become cheap because of the issue that I had years ago with gambling. I lost pretty much everything. But I've rebuilt what I had lost and it felt good to save that money back. And obviously, I know I have 20,000 minus 8k in credit cards, like 12. And then you take. I basically have a negative net worth with my car payment and my car loan. So it's just me being kind of impatient of like, oh, my gosh, I have to start over again.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. It feels like you're going back to rock bottom. You know, there's a legitimate scarc city mindset there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, Rob, I want to throw something at you. This is John sitting next to George. I'm his sidekick. He doesn't let me talk very much, but occasionally he does.

[George Campbell]

I have a mute button for John.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

At any point can I throw something else out there? And I'm throwing spaghetti at a wall and you can say, nope, you're an idiot. That's not real.

[Caller]

Okay, go ahead.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are you completely through with your gambling past?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, let me rephrase that. You're done gambling. You've. You've done what you need to do. You've healed from that. Are you okay with you. Are you okay with that guy who gambled and created a big hole for himself?

[Caller]

Yes, because it was a decision that I made. It was right, it was wrong, it was indifferent. I made the decision. I'm an adult. I have to live with it. And I'm a man of faith. And I just leaned on my faith with God and, you know, honor him, praise him, and, you know, look for him as pleasing him in all decisions that I make.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay? So I want to take that. I'm going to take you at your word. And I want to tell you what it looks like from the outside, that you still haven't fully completed the full circle of healing when it comes to that gambling debt because you're still hanging on to it.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I don't know that you're going to have that full exhale. And when I say what I, what I mean by that is you've. You've hacked your way to safety. Meaning you've done some amazing work to get yourself a bunch of cash. And instead of leaning on gambling, instead of leaning on excitement, instead of leaning on what's the next, like, cool thing, now you're Leaning on something else, which is cash, as this warm blanket to keep you. Keep you safe.

[Caller]

And that's what I feel daily. I look at my. When I look at my bank account, I see 20 grand. I'm like, oh, my gosh, that's great.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like, it is.

[Caller]

I remember when I didn't have anything.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you still haven't finished the gambling debt yet.

[Caller]

Right? I just need to just get to the point of being comfortable with saying, all right, I'm gonna spend $8,000.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's not how comfort works. Comfort is through the other side of discomfort. And you have this big, uncomfortable path ahead of you, and you're not walking through it because you've walked through a lot of discomfort to get here. And you want to call that the end. It's like you're running a marathon and you found mile 15, 15 to 17, which is when everyone's. No matter how good a shape you are, that's when people are like, dude, this is stupid. I quit. And you're saying to yourself, you know What? I've ran 15 miles. That's enough. And what I want to tell you is the true exhale you're looking for is on the other side of finally being done with all of the gambling stuff. And it's going to be uncomfortable to write $8,000 check, send it. Send it today, and be forever done with both the action of gambling and the consequences of that, because the consequences are still floating out there. And you've created story that makes it kind of okay, which is it's at 0%, but it's still in your backpack. Set it down, man.

[Caller]

Can I ask you another? I actually just thought of something too, that I wanted to ask. I forgot to mention to you guys one thing that I think I have and my father's even mentioned. It's kind of like an OCD thing here. With. Because of the gambling issue, I became fixated on saving money, right? So I think I found myself trying to save too much money. And I know people have told me, guys, that, oh, well, you can't save your way to wealth. You know, investing is the way, you know, to build wealth. And I have a savings incentive plan with my company. And at 26 years old, I've got about $50,000 between my ESOP, my 401k and my Iraq. You know, my boss is like, that's great. That's amazing. You know, how many 26 year olds don't have that? You know? And. And I just. I want. Because I want to get married, you know, I'm going to propose to my. My future fiance, you know, around Christmas time. And I want to buy a house. And I'm like, gosh, like it sounds like.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Honestly, it sounds like you traded one addiction for another.

[Caller]

I think so too. I do. I mean.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so listen, the only path. You cannot psycho. Psychoanalyze your way through this. The only path to the confidence you're seeking. And confidence here is trusting yourself is through it, not around it.

[Caller]

Right? And I know that, you know, I'm a saver. I know I live within my needs.

[George Campbell]

Here's the thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Just pay it off. Pay it off in. George, what about the truck?

[George Campbell]

And you gotta attack that truck, man. I mean, you can afford to keep it, but if you're gonna hang on to the payments and carry this into your marriage, this thing's gotta go.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's a different kind of gam that you're always going to have this income and that debt's always going to be okay.

[George Campbell]

And I don't think you're ever going to get to a point where you feel comfortable enough to then throw it at the debt. We're going to be talking years from now and you're still going to be carrying this. So I pay it off, you're going to have 17k left. Attack that and knock it out before you get married to this gal. That's what we would do, man. Hey, quick reality check. AI isn't just for sci fi nerds and Silicon Valley tech bros anymore. It's the new weapon of choice for every scammer with fast wi fi and bad intentions. Identity thieves could be using AI right now to steal your info in ways that would have sounded impossible just five years ago. We're talking voice cloning, deepfake videos, filing bogus tax returns, draining your bank and retirement accounts, and even home title fraud. And it can happen fast, so most people don't find out until it's too late. So, as someone who has had his identity stolen before, I don't mess around. I use Xander ID theft protection because it keeps up with today's threats without the crazy price tag other companies charge. You get real time monitoring across your whole financial and digital life. And if something does go down, they'll give you the full white glove treatment like 247 restoration services by pros based in the US and up to $2 million in stolen funds and expense coverage. So you don't need to live in fear, but you do need to be smart about protecting your identity from thieves. So go to Xander.com or call 800-356-4282 and get yourself protected today. Chase is in New York. What's going on, Chase? How can we help today?

[Caller]

Hey, guys. How you doing?

[George Campbell]

Great. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing good. So my question is, I have some money saved up. I've been considering putting a big lump sum towards some loans that I have. So I'm just looking for some advice on what the best route is here to do that, taking into account, like, how much money I can save in terms of the different interest rates on each loan.

[George Campbell]

Well, do you want to do math or you want to get out of debt? Which one's more important to you?

[Caller]

Yeah, so it's a combination of both. I mean, these loans aren't. There's really no emotional aspect to them for me because I have them set up in some different bank accounts where it's direct deposit straight from my paycheck, so I really don't feel it at all. And then my car loan is just same exact thing. So I'm not actually making those monthly payments. So I really. I don't.

[George Campbell]

You're not making the monthly payments? I'm so confused.

[Caller]

No, it's automatic. It's all automatic.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so you are making the monthly payments, homie.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

You've just automated. You're saying you don't feel it emotionally because everything's automated, and you go, whatever, it's money out of my account. It's not there anymore. Who cares? I'm not that concerned about the debt. Are you trying to make money by keeping the cash in the bank instead of paying off the debt? Is that your question?

[Caller]

No, I just don't know. I want to. So my car loan is $15,000 left on it, and my student loan has $71,000 left on it. Those are the two big ones. I have a mortgage as well that I just started, which is $620,000 left on it. And that's obviously, that's my highest interest rate and my biggest loan. But really, I could. I feel like I put a decent dent in how much money do you.

[George Campbell]

Have that you could allocate toward the debts.

[Caller]

So right now, in my savings, I have $60,000 part of it. The reason this hole came up, I got a raise at one of my jobs, and I didn't update the percentage of direct deposit that was going into my account. That was just covering my student loan. I knew that, but it was just additional savings. So it's now $17,000 in that account that's just sitting there. So I figured, does it make sense to put that towards my student loan to eliminate a lot of interest and shorten the length of this?

[George Campbell]

You have way over complicated your whole financial life. You've got like 17 accounts sitting there. You get direct deposits coming every which way. I would simplify it all and take all cash you have minus 1000 bucks and just knock out your debt. Could you just about knock out all of your debt if you did that today? You have 60 plus the 17.

[Caller]

Yeah, 60 plus the 17. So it's about $73,000 in my savings.

[George Campbell]

So you could knock out the car loan today, free up that payment, knock out most of the student loan and probably be debt free by Christmas.

[Caller]

Yeah, I guess my question was like I'm kind of towards. It's $80 a month in interest right now for the car loan. The student loan is about 220 per month in interest. So I just wasn't sure if it makes more sense going, really just keep paying the car loan and wipe out that whole student loan first and then that's all my savings. Like is it, it is smart to eliminate.

[George Campbell]

It's not going to. The interest savings is not going to matter with the speed that you're going to attack this if you do it our way. Now, if you're going to hang on to the debt forever and keep playing games, then I think you should start looking at the math and the interest. But if you do it our way, you're debt free by Christmas. We're talking the difference in pennies. You're talking two months. You're completely debt free.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or think about it this way, you've made it easier for yourself by thinking about the interest that you're paying on the loan on top of the principal. How much is the interest rate on your student loan?

[Caller]

My student loan is. That's the lowest one. That's 3.74%.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So if you have your money in a high yield savings account, that's a wash right now.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. What are you paying on the, on the interest of your car note?

[Caller]

5.79%.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so you're paying 5.7, right? 5.8. So let's say 6%. You're paying 6% for the privilege.

[Caller]

Of.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Holding on to that money. That's bad math. Any way you use it.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm also not really sure with like, I don't know how long I have in my savings.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let's flip it around. Let's flip it around.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Pay off everything by Christmas. Okay. If you hate it if you hate not having any payments, then go take out a $70,000 HELOC against your house and you can have one back. That'd be awesome. There's just like. There's a way to do this.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Georgia and I have never met a person, and Dave Ramsey before us have never met somebody who paid off everything. And they're like, man, I wish I hadn't done that.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

How much do you make?

[Caller]

That's the goal for sure.

[George Campbell]

What's your income?

[Caller]

What is that, roughly? Per month after taxes? 11,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay, let's play this out. You're debt free by Christmas, and you have a thousand bucks in savings, and you're going, oh, gosh, I got to rebuild. Okay, well, the next paycheck, how much could you throw into that savings account now that you don't have any debt?

[Caller]

Yeah, That's a good seven grand.

[George Campbell]

Seven grand. Eight grand.

[Caller]

Yeah. My mortgage. My mortgage is 5,500amonth. We have an apartment in the house, which we get 1700 in rent from.

[George Campbell]

Who's we?

[Caller]

Me and my wife.

[George Campbell]

Oh, okay. What does she make?

[Caller]

She makes 120,000 a year on top.

[George Campbell]

Of your 11 that you're taking home?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so you could rebuild this emergency fund in, like, two months.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're rich, brother. Pay off your debts, man.

[Caller]

Okay. You are doing the big lump sum to a set.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Just pay it off today.

[George Campbell]

You're like a rat in the maze. And we're going, dude, you don't need to be a part of this lab experiment. You can just opt out. You're overthinking at every corner, and you're too successful. You make too much money to even be doing this math.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

What does your wife think about all this? What's her involvement?

[Caller]

She's not. I'm a little bit more entrepreneurial minded and doing the finance stuff for us. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're not good at it.

[Announcer]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So I'm.

[George Campbell]

What would she say if she took control of the money today and saw everything going on? Would she go, what are we doing over here? You got nine accounts you're trying to direct. Can we just pay this off and be done? Is that how she is? Or would she say, no, I think we should keep it very complicated and overwhelming now.

[Caller]

She would. She would just be the monthly. The monthly payment, and that's like. Honestly, what? Like, not financial experts, but, like, telling my friends things like that. Like, everyone. Just everyone in my life, they just making their monthly payments.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know.

[George Campbell]

And their life is awful.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Look around, dude.

[George Campbell]

Look. And they Complain and they vent about how awful everything is, how they can't afford everything while they carry their $600 car payment that they could pay off today.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So I don't know. I mean, you can keep playing the game, but it just feels like you're choosing. I just need to call out. You're choosing to play the middle class game by making it complicated, holding on to the loans, thinking.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're thinking a lot of action is getting you anywhere.

[Caller]

So that makes sense.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're in a truck right now and it's stuck and you just keep hitting the gas. And you're like, yeah, look how, look how fast this thing is. Like the RPMs, look how hard it's revving. But me and George are sitting in the field next to you. We're like, you're not going anywhere. And every check, like a little goes here and it goes over there and then a direct deposit's here. And you can't. Lloyd Christmas once said you can't triple stamp a double stamp. That's from Dumb and Dumber. You should go watch that movie for Christmas. But listen, just pay it off. Pay it off. Get out of the game. Your friends are broke, dude, your friends are broke.

[George Campbell]

So the question is, are you wanting to try to make a spread off of this or are you wanting to build wealth? Because you can't do both at the same time. So if you want to build wealth, here's the simplest way to build wealth. Here it is. You ready for it? Live on less than you make. Invest the difference. That's it. You make 16 grand. Live off five, invest the 11. You're going to be unbelievably wealthy no matter what, because your savings rate will trump anything else going on your life. And the other piece is, avoid debt, avoiding other. Avoid owing other people money so that your income stays with you. And instead of paying interest, you're going to be earning it in no time. And you're not going to be doing any more interest rate math.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you and your wife make was about a quarter million dollars. Together you'll make a lot of money. Think of it this way. In three years, you can own your house outright, you can owe nobody anything, and you can have an emergency fund. Nobody could ever take your home. No one will ever knock on your door. That's the definition of wealth.

[George Campbell]

Moving forward, you get a health scare, a job loss, wife wants to stay home, you yawn and then you do it. Yeah, that's financial peace, man. That's what we're after. And we hope that you start chasing that dream, too. Hey, guys. You know those too good to pass up holiday promos? Well, they can be great. But with every spin of the digital wheel, the newsletter sign up the coupon code, you're giving away your data. You think that info just stays with the store? I doubt it. It goes into the corners of cyberspace, where data brokers grab it, repackage it, and sell it to spammers, scammers, and generally bad people. The FTC just reported consumers lost over $12.5 billion to fraud last year. And that's not just a number. That's your money, your time, and your privacy. And that's why I recommend Delete Me. Your digital cleanup crew, the delete Me privacy pros dig through hundreds of these data broker sites. They scrub your info and they keep it gone. Which means fewer weird robocalls, fewer spam texts. And it's the gift that keeps on giving because it's an annual subscription. And Ramsey listeners can get 20% off those annual plans at JoinDeleteMe.com Ramsey with code RAMS checkout. Do it today. That's JoinDeleteMe.com Ramsey code Ramsey. Do you ever feel like you're doing everything right with your money, but you're still not getting anywhere? Well, you're not alone. Maybe you've made the changes, you had a few wins, but something still feels off. Well, it's not because you failed. It's because money isn't just math. It's emotional. And that emotional fight can quietly sabotage your progress. And that's exactly why our friend Jade Warshaw wrote her new book, what no one tells you about Money. That's what it's all about. It's the first Ramsey book that takes an honest, in depth look at the emotional side of money and gives you practical tools to finally make progress for good. And we are stoked.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dude, I'm holding it right here. This is off the hook. It's awesome. But no one tells you about Money by Jade Warshaw. She wrote her Someone who's been There. Dude, she has been there. And hey, this is the thing. If you have someone in your life that's always making excuses, this is the book for you. Because Jade and her husband Sam, curve busters. They took all of the excuses away. And if you're somebody who's halfway through this journey or thinking about starting it and you're overwhelmed with the shame and the frustration, this book's for you. It's amazing. It's amazing. Go check it out.

[George Campbell]

You can pre order right now for $24.99 and you'll get over 100 bucks in free bonus items including the enhanced audiobook, early access to the ebook, instant access to an exclusive video, your financial checkup with Jade. And there's a book exclusive three week online book club with a live Q and A with Jade. So go check it all out. Pre order today Ramseysolutions.com store if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. All right, Amanda is out in Salt Lake City. What's going on? Amanda, Hi.

[Caller]

My husband and I have no debt. Our house has been paid off for a few years. I have a 401k, he has a pension and we had a friend die a couple years ago at about our age and we got nervous. So we got some life insurance through a friend. It's a fixed index universal life insurance policy. And I'm beginning to think it's not that good of a deal.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Good job. Yes.

[George Campbell]

Glad you've joined the rest of us. I'm so sorry.

[Caller]

I've been listening to you guys and.

[George Campbell]

I'm like, are you still friends with this person?

[Caller]

Well, it's my sister in law's dad, so yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

My sister in law's dad. That's like Spaceballs. It's like my best friend's brother's room.

[George Campbell]

So you want to surrender the policy and so, so we're putting like a.

[Caller]

Thousand dollars a month into it. I have. Looking at this paperwork, as I've been listening to you guys, I have no idea how much is in it.

I don't know.

[George Campbell]

That's how they like it. They like to make these things so complex that the average person like you and me, Amanda, we could not fathom how it works. And so we leave it to the really smart people in the index universal life world to scam us out of $1,000. Do you know how much wealth you could build just putting $1,000 a month into the stock market in an index fund and set it into an insurance policy?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Venmo me $1,000 a month and I'll send you a nice note every day.

[George Campbell]

And sadly, you would make more doing that. It would probably because the commissions and fees that he is making off of you right now would blow your mind.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

Most of the money that you're putting in is going towards commissions and fees. A small percentage is going to the house.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is his house bigger than yours?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. Ta da.

[George Campbell]

So you have a polite conversation and you say, hey, I'd like to get out of this Policy and surrender it asap. And he's gonna try to talk you out of it. He's gonna tell you how bad of an idea it is and how much money you're gonna lose by doing this. And you firmly just say, yep, I understand, I understand. I want.

[Caller]

We're pay the stupid tax.

[George Campbell]

Exactly. Because the amount of time it takes for they. They'll tell you. They'll say, well, you gotta really be committed to this. You gotta give us a thousand bucks a month for the next 20 years for this to work. All right? Which just tells you how stupid of an idea it is. And so I would get out of it asap. In fact, there's been a huge news story. One of the biggest NASCAR drivers out there. I think it's Kyle Busch. I hope I give it that name right. They just lost eight and a half million dollars doing this. At scale, the exact thing you're doing.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

So if that gives you any.

[Caller]

So what do I do with the money that's in there? Like, how do. Can I move it?

[George Campbell]

I mean, I don't know how much you'll have. At the end of the day, there may not be much. That's the sad news. Like, you can check how much cash value is in there. I don't think it's gonna. You're gonna be very disappointed with the amount of money you're gonna get from this.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so the longer this goes, the longer this goes.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

Do you guys have term life insurance in place?

[Caller]

No.

[George Campbell]

Okay. I would do that today. Before you surrender this policy, you need term life insurance. Not whole life, not universal life, not index universal life. None of these. Just term life. A level term life policy. It will be a fraction of the cost instead of a thousand bucks. It's pro to be like $65 a month. And it's going to do the only thing that life insurance was intended to do, which is replace your income if something were to happen to you.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

So you can jump on Xander.com and check them out. That's who I have my policy through.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Me too. Or you can call them up. I've got mine through there too.

[George Campbell]

And it's super affordable. And then the money that you save, that difference in the thousand dollars you are paying that 900 something dollars, you can then invest that money and you can pop that into our investment calculator and see how much wealth you could build for yourself instead of making an insurance salesman wealthy.

[Caller]

And both of us really aren't savvy in that. Like, how do you invest? I Don't even know how to invest money.

[George Campbell]

I mean, investing in your 401k like you're better. Yeah, just. Well, we'll teach you. There's a great guide that we have on our website for free. Just jump on Ramsey Solutions dot com, slash guide. And we have a free investing guide that will walk you through it in plain English, no complex insurance jargon. In fact, we won't mention insurance in the investing guide because they should never be mixed. Anyone telling you they should be mixed is trying to make money off of you, as you've already learned the hard way. Yes, I'm rooting for you, Amanda. So just know that you're not alone. And I hope someone else out there holding one of these policies or who's about to get talked into one, you might have just saved them. So please know that you've done us all real quick.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Amanda, are you still there?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want to circle back to one thing you said real quick. You said you're out of debt and you've paid off your house.

[Caller]

Uh huh.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Let nobody ever again tell you convince you. And I'm talking to the people that you, the person you look at in the mirror and your husband looks at in the mirror. Y' all are light years ahead of the vast majority of Americans when it comes to handling your money.

[Caller]

Thank you. My brother or my brother. My husband always tells us that we're broke. And I'm like, I don't think we're broke, buddy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Listen, if y'.

[Caller]

All.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

One of y' all loses a job, nobody coming to take your house away, right? If both of y' all lost your job, y' all would have to mow lawn so y' all could come up on an annual basis with the taxes and insurance. This is what real wealth looks like. Not having a fancy policy that somebody else's manages for you because you're, quote, unquote, too dumb.

[Caller]

Right?

[George Campbell]

How old are you, Amanda?

[Caller]

We're 43.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Do you guys have some wealth already built? Like, what's your current nest egg look like across retirement accounts?

[Caller]

So I have about 450,000 in my 401k. I haven't worked for about 5 years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are you apologizing for having half a million dollars? Are you serious?

[George Campbell]

Making excuses. But okay. What about your husband? What's he have in retirement?

[Caller]

He has a pension. I don't know how that works.

I don't even know what.

[George Campbell]

We'll take the pension out of it. Let's just put this in your ball. In your world here you have 450 grand. You're 43 years old, and you pop that thousand bucks into an investment account, you're likely going to have. Are you ready for this? $5 million at 65. If you just do that, just a thousand bucks a month, the amount you were paying to that insurance policy, put.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It into your 401 or into a mutual fund, right?

[George Campbell]

Yeah. Even a Roth ira. Now, you'd run out of money pretty quick because you'd go over the limit. But you can invest outside of retirement. If you run out of. You max out all of your retirement options. You can invest outside of retirement just into an index fund and a brokerage account, and that'll still get you that number.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Somehow, you and your husband would have to figure out how to exist with your paid off house in $5 million, plus his pension. However, are y' all gonna make it?

[George Campbell]

And your husband is saying you're broke for four weddings.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Four weddings.

[George Campbell]

That might make you broke.

[Caller]

We have four girls. So I. He said. I said, we're gonna pay for their college.

He said, I'm not worried about college.

I'm worried about weddings.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's okay. So he's right. He's right. Y' all are poor. But you'll get there. You'll get there.

[George Campbell]

They don full ride scholarships for weddings, although I feel like they should.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know what, though? You can do the cash out option. When. When your daughter comes home and says, hey, I'm engaged, you can sit down and say, okay, we'll write you a check for $20,000, and we will marry you in our local church. Just right down the street.

[Caller]

Right?

There you go.

[George Campbell]

I'd rather take that.

[Caller]

Or you can just put it on.

A house and go alone.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. We will pay your down payment on for your house, and we'll meet you and throw rice at you outside the courthouse.

[George Campbell]

Young couples will be like, oh, my gosh, housing is so unaff. And then spend $120,000 on a wedding like it's worth it. It's my special day. Goodness gracious, we've got it twisted. But hey, we're rooting for you, Amanda. It's a stupid tax. You're gonna be fine. The resentment that'll sting for a.

[Caller]

Foreign.

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[George Campbell]

JP is in New Jersey. Up next, JP welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Caller]

Hey, folks. Hope you guys are doing well.

[George Campbell]

We are. What's going on with you?

[Caller]

All right, so my spouse and I have been married for three years. We started FPU when we got married and now we're at baby step four, which is awesome. We put 15% down into our retirement and are thinking of buying a home. We've been renting this whole time, famously in Jersey. Pretty high cost of living. So we're trying to decide if it makes more sense to use what we saved and buy or keep renting and start investing what we've saved. Now the, the caveat is we're planning to stay in the area for another five to seven years.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so you're already investing 15%. Why are you wanting to invest more?

[Caller]

Well, we have all this that we have saved and we just started doing baby steps and said, wow, we could be kind of gaining more if we invest. So we were like, to invest, do we use that to the down payment? What makes more sense?

[George Campbell]

How much money do you have Outside.

[Caller]

Of our emergency fund, we have about 140,000.

[George Campbell]

That's a heck of a down payment. What kind of house are you looking at? What's the budget?

[Caller]

The budget's around like 600,000 max.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so what's your target here? Are you trying to keep it within the Ramsey parameters to keep it to 25% of your after tax income?

[Caller]

Yeah, we're trying to follow that as well. And we were thinking if we do do that and we leave in five to seven years, is the equity. Does that match what we could win if we invest? Trying to figure out, well, you tell me.

[George Campbell]

Tell me exactly what the stock market is going to do for the next Five to seven years and I'll tell you if it's a good plan.

[Caller]

No idea.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's another presidential election, too, by the way.

[George Campbell]

Perfect. So here's what I wouldn't do is try to time the market and decide, is this money going to go towards investments or houses? I think both are good. You're already investing 15%. I would rather see you guys get your foot in the door to the housing market, because I can tell you this, houses are going to be more expensive seven years from now, and it's a moving goalpost. So I would rather see you guys get into a home as soon as you're financially ready versus hanging on to the money or investing the money, because you're going to be multi millionaires at this rate. How old are you two?

[Caller]

We're in our mid-30s. We're 34. She's 33.

[George Campbell]

And how much money do you guys make?

[Caller]

You make about two, I guess before taxes is about 280.

[George Campbell]

Okay. A third grader doing this math could tell you you're going to be a multimillionaire investing 15% of hundreds of thousands of dollars with compound growth for the next 30 years.

[Caller]

That's awesome.

[George Campbell]

So in that case, I'm going, okay, well, let's really hunker down and get this house knocked out. Which means we need to find a down payment goal so that we can get into this house. So is that $2000-001750-00250,000. What is that number for you guys?

[Caller]

So what we're looking about, it's about like 155 and you're at 140 right now. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So $15,000 is what's stopping you from buying a home.

[Caller]

Pretty much.

[George Campbell]

And you'll make that in the next month or two.

[Caller]

Yeah, exactly.

[George Campbell]

It sounds like you should start home shopping by Christmas.

[Caller]

All right, we have been looking, and then we, you know, we kind of pause and we're like, we want to make sure that we're doing the right thing.

[George Campbell]

So you are doing exactly the right thing. Now, in the baby steps, this would be Baby Step 3B, or you can do it in four, which is you invest anywhere from 0 to 15% while saving up a down payment. So if you guys want to keep at 15% and throw anything else at the down payment savings, you'll get there in no time. But I would not prioritize investing over buying a house when you're already doing baby step four. You guys are doing great.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And for whatever it's worth, I pause Retirement to save up for my down payment.

[George Campbell]

I see the pause that you do for three months is not going to make that big of a dent long term.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

So I would. You have a good real estate agent?

[Caller]

We do, we do.

[George Campbell]

Okay, good. I would start shopping now because it could take a little while to start finding the right one. And in the meantime, you guys keep stacking cash. Keep stacking cash. And when the right one comes along, you guys are going to be financially ready.

[Caller]

Amazing. All right, will do.

[George Campbell]

Way to go.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Congratulations, dude.

[George Campbell]

I needed a win today, JP and you gave me that. Thank you for being an inspiration. All right, Bill is in Sacramento up next. What's going on, Bill? How can we help?

[Caller]

Well, I'm looking for some godly advice and you guys are the key.

[George Campbell]

John is the holiest man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'll do the godly part, George will do the advice part.

[Caller]

No, I got a situation. I got a couple kids, they're in private school and my job is cut back, way back on their overtime and stuff that I was using to keep them in private school. So my wife works, I work and we're just getting barely by and all it takes is an appliance breaking down or our car that needs to be replaced and we're going to go in debt. Right now we don't have any debt, but we've got about 600,000 plus equity in our home. So we were wrangling or tossing around the idea that what we could do is we get just one, you know, just a single mortgage. We were thinking about maybe taking out a loan against it, you know, whatever percentage they charge and taking that money and would pay for the next four years of school. No pay for cars. Yep. And then just pay it off when we sell the house.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Please don't do that.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Please don't do that. Is this private school as part of the reason you send them to a private school, is it a faith based education for them? Because that's something you value.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, it's. It's a Christian organization and it's top notch.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, great. That's amazing. I'm going to tell you something that's hard to hear. Okay, sure. It's faith based and it's top notch. It can be world class and in the current situation where you find yourself, you can't afford it. And this is dad to dad.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm just telling you like dad to dad. That's hard thing for me to say to another dad who's trying to do the best he can to raise great kids. But I will tell you in my house and in George's house and our neighbor's house, the spiritual life of our kids is chiefly our responsibility.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if you can, if you have found yourself in a season where you can afford to also put them in a different environment where, you know, their teachers are all believing the same faith that you value and all that, that's amazing. But the other side of this is the biblical principle that the borrower is slave to the lender. And if you take out a HELOC against your house, even though you have built in equity, you are creating tension inside your house that your kids will absorb from the inside out.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I would much rather, if you like, just again, dad to dad, I would much rather you guys have a hard conversation with your kids, which, by the way, would be one of the greatest lessons you could ever teach them, which is dad had his hours cut and our finances have changed. And if they saw their dad weep, if they saw their dad be sad, that would be a blessing to them because they would see dad have real emotions and then go do the next right thing, which is for this season or at the end of this year or at the end of this semester. This is as far as we can go. And if my hours pick back up, this is priority number one. I know it's gonna impact your friendships, it's gonna impact your school stuff. It's gonna be hard. But my job is to keep all of us safe. And I won't put the house on the block for something that I can get down the street. And I'm just gonna have to up my intervention in the school system, in the schools, in us, talking about spiritual matters at home, doing morning devos, whatever you want to do in your house, because I'm gonna have to take full ownership of that and not outsource that, some of that to a school. Those are hard, hard conversations, man. But I would. I would not be a good dad, a fellow dad, if I told you, yeah, the right thing to do is to borrow against your home for this, for your. For this season right now.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

And if things are tight now, that HELOC is just going to make it even tighter. You're adding an extra payment in your life and you're putting your house on the block because that puts your home at risk as well. And so to John's point, I think this is going to add more stress than it's going to add peace of mind that you're. You're doing the right thing for your kids. I think You've probably raised some great kids. Am I, am I right?

[Caller]

Oh, absolutely, yeah.

[George Campbell]

Do you think a temporary change in school would affect their character and their values and the principles you've instilled in them?

[Caller]

Well, if it did, I, you know, take them out behind the woodshed.

[George Campbell]

There we go. There we go. We have a solution, but I would not do this, Bill. I don't, I don't think using your home as a piggy bank is going to be a blessing in your life. And we just talked to too many people that are your age going, I wish I never did this. I wish I didn't take out the heloc. I'm unable to retire now and unable to make these payments. And that's just going to add stress into your home.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or the moment you take out that heloc, you're going to get called in and they're going to say, hey, you know, we've been cutting hours, man, and unfortunately we're going to have to lay off some positions. And then you're in a big, big time mess that you're not in right now. And so, man, I always want, I always want homes to be places of warmth and safety and peace. And adding, adding debt to your house, plus putting your house on the block, man, that's a way to add some.

[George Campbell]

Major stress, take debt off the table and find any other way. It's not going to be fun, but it's going to be for a season.

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[George Campbell]

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[Dr. John DeLoney]

Lender.

[George Campbell]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel, joined by Dr. John DeLoney. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Tyler is in Fort Worth, Texas. Salt of the earth, folks over there. What's going on, Tyler?

[Caller]

Oh, no, I guess. How are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Good.

[George Campbell]

John is upset with me. He doesn't like my comment about Fort.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Worth is the 817. It's a great town and George doesn't know how to talk to Texas.

[George Campbell]

I said salt of the year. That's a compliment. I'll teach John what that means after what's going on today.

[Caller]

So my wife and I got married a little over a year ago, so that brought all of our debt together. Obviously, we're about $150,000 in debt. That includes car payments and a camper payment and student loans. And I also filed Chapter 13 bankruptcy six years ago. And I'm at the light at the end of the tunnel where it is paid off at in July of next year.

[George Campbell]

Awesome. Good for you, man.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So what got you back into the mess?

[Caller]

Well, you know, chapter 13 keeps you in keeping beans and rice just like you guys say it should. But we'll put you back into it. My wife had $40,000 worth of student loan debt before we got together. Vehicle payment. I had to have a vehicle to get back and forth to work. I currently don't really need that now. Just need to just have. I have a work vehicle that can drive back and forth to work. She needs a vehicle drive back and forth to work and her payment or her Jeep, we have about 10,000 in debt left on it, so. And I want to sell my pickup, but I just found out today that the transmission went out and that's a $6,000 repair. I just don't know where to start.

[George Campbell]

What do you guys make?

[Caller]

About 180,000 a year.

[George Campbell]

There's some good news. And what can you sell your truck for if you got the transmission fixed?

[Caller]

If I. Somewhere between 33 and 39,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And how much money do you have in savings if anything?

[Caller]

I've got about 500 bucks in savings right now.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And what could you sell the camper for?

[Caller]

The campers? Probably about 30,000, and we owe about 45 on it.

[George Campbell]

So you're underwater on that. Are you underwater on the truck as Well?

[Caller]

I owe 31 on it. So if I put a transmission back in it, then I. Technically, yes, I would be underwater on it, but then I could sell it and walk away from the payment.

[George Campbell]

Good. Well, I'm just thinking that if you get rid of that camper in the truck, man, you can breathe a little bit.

[Caller]

Yeah. So the whole reason we got a camper was because we moved from Montana to Texas, and living in a camper with a couple dogs was the cheaper option than renting down here. I mean, we pay around $1,600 a month with, you know, with my lot rent, the camper payment, and our electric are.

[George Campbell]

You're currently living in the camper?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[George Campbell]

Okay. What would rent be?

[Caller]

Rent somewhere from 2 to 2,500amonth.

[George Campbell]

Is there anywhere cheaper?

[Caller]

Every place that I've looked at that accepts dogs is usually pretty high. It's hard to find a place that accepts dogs without it being around that two grand mark.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Well, I'm just worried because this camper is going to continue to just tank in value, and you're going to be even more underwater on it to where you're going to go. Well, I guess we have to live in this camper forever. This is our life now. And so for a couple making 180k, you can afford $2,000 in rent.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So I just don't want you doing bad math going, well, it's worth it to stay in this camper and stay in debt when you could knock out $45,000 plus the 31 of the truck. That's half your debt right there.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And now making 180k, how quickly can you clean up? 7512 months. So that's the napkin math I'm seeing on paper. I don't know if you see that future, that path out of this, but there's a very clear path out of this if you guys want out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Bro, you asked us. We don't know where to start. George gave you a math like a path, and it's literally a year from now. That's it. Okay, but I want to get to if. If you were just sitting with me and we were having nachos, and you said, I don't know where to start. I don't think you have taken full ownership yet because I've heard you say, go ahead.

[Caller]

Oh, sorry.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, no.

[Caller]

I was gonna say I just went through the baby steps reading the book.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure. No, I got you. I got you. Here's what I want you to begin to own from this point forward. Not I had to, I needed to. This is the only. I want you to say, I chose to go buy a $50,000 truck that I couldn't afford even in the middle of a bankruptcy. I want you to say, we made 180 grand. And instead of paying $2,000 a month for a one bedroom apartment, because we are choosing, I'm owning, I'm choosing to have two dogs in this little bitty space. I chose to buy a camper that I couldn't afford. Ownership here is where you got to start. Because so far the story you've told us is all these things have happened to you. And I just want you to exhale and say, I've made some choices. And so that means. Because here's what. That's freeing. I made those choices and now I can choose to make other ones. Because right now you're just waiting for the life to happen to you the other direction. That's not how it works. And so there's some kind of reckoning about, man, I did something really dumb. I went and bought a big nice camper that I can't afford so that we could keep two dogs. And bro, I love my dogs. Love them. And when my wife and I were getting out of debt and we had to move into a apartment on a college campus with a toddler, I had to pay somebody to keep my two dogs for a year. Because long term, more important than those dogs was my wife and my son and my freedom. You get what I'm saying?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But it just comes with you owning all of this. Not this happened and then I had to, and this happened and then I had to. This happened and I had to. I'm going to own this because then you can own what happens next. And George just gave you a literally a one year plan. Can you just fast forward to yourself this time, not Christmas of 2026. You're done with bankruptcy, you owe nobody anything. You and your wife and you finally have that clean slate you've been dreaming about for seven years.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it's gonna be a hellacious year. And if y' all move two dogs into one bedroom apartment, it's gonna be full of dog hair and smells and all that stuff.

[George Campbell]

Great.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's a year. It's one year. You know what I'm saying?

[George Campbell]

Is your wife on board with this plan?

[Caller]

So we've talked about a few, few different things. It's, you know, I told her I wanted to figure out what we need to get Our life back on track to where we had money in the bank and we survived. And I mean, we live comfortable as we are, but I would love to live better than comfortable.

[George Campbell]

I think we need some discomfort before we get to comfort because right now $11,000 is probably going to slip through your fingers in the next 30 days. Am I wrong?

[Caller]

No, you're not.

[George Campbell]

And it's going to go right back out to lenders and minimum payments. Restaurants, restaurants and comfort. Right? That's what's been happening because that's why we only have 500 bucks when we make 180 grand a year. So what I, what I want you guys to do is make a budget tonight where you list out your income, $11,000 expenses. Here's my four walls. Here's food, utility, shelter, transportation. Here's the minimum debt payments. Anything that isn't on that list, we don't spend money on for one year. Could you guys commit to that?

[Caller]

I believe we can.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And the one thing you need more than anything after six years of bankruptcy and starting a new life with somebody is you need some confidence. You need to begin to trust yourself again. And you can't think your way to trust. You have to act your way to trust. Doing the next right hard thing for one calendar year will change everything from your DNA on out.

[George Campbell]

Go check out everydollar, Tyler. We'll get you you started. Kelly's going to pick up. We'll gift it to you if you guys commit to doing this stuff and call us back if we can help along the way.

[Announcer]

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[George Campbell]

Based on regional analysis of Aldi versus Select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability and the market. Our question of the day is brought to you by Yrefi. If your private student loans are in default, it can feel like the end of the road. But why Refi helps you find a way forward with a low fixed rate payment plan that fits your Life. Go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey not available in all states. And we've got something special today. Today's question comes from Bailey in Florida and it's an audio question, so let's take a listen. John?

[Caller]

Hi, my name is Bailey and I'm from Florida. I'm on baby step two and I'm trying to decide what to do with my car. I have a 20, 21 Honda Civic that I owe about 18, 790 on, but it's only worth around 17 5. My brother works for Ford and he wants me to get a brand new Ford Maverick with a lifetime warranty. Got these employee discounts. He's able to get all these fees taken off. He's kind of been my financial advisor most of my life and he thinks it's great decisions, makes great money. It's not like I'm taking financial advice from broke people. As Dave would say, should I sell the Civic and get it in a cheaper used car while I pay off the rest of my debt? Or would getting a new car make sense?

[George Campbell]

Oh boy, there's so much to unpack here. First of all, your brother is your financial advisor and you said he makes great money, so it's good to take financial advice from him as he tries to talk you into a car that, that you can't afford that he's going to make commission off of. This whole thing just feels odd to me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Not as odd as a Ford Maverick with quote unquote, a lifetime warranty.

[George Campbell]

Yikes. And guess who's making all the money off that warranty? His brother.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No wonder he's rich.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, exactly. You're in baby step two. You've got debt, you're 1300 bucks underwater on this car. I'm guessing you will make that within your next paycheck and so just save up a little bit more than that to get a new to you car.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And used.

[George Campbell]

Please do not go out and buy a new car. I don't care if you're getting an employee discount. Buying a brand new car, it's going to depreciate in value like a rock. And you're going to be carrying this payment which is just replacing the payment you have now, which is just broke people mentality.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, you basically have a car with a lifetime warranty. It's called a Honda Civic.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, those cars last for eternity.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They're apocalypse cars. You already have one.

[George Campbell]

So if you make, you know, 50, 60, 70, 80 grand and you want to keep the car, then just pay it off in the next year or two and Be done with it. I don't, I don't know if you have more debt than that, but that's where I would start. And if you want to sell it and get a cheaper used car, because you said while I pay off the rest of my debt, that tells me there's a bigger problem here. And so in that case, I think it will expedite your debt free journey. If you sell the Civic for, you know, 18 grand, 20 grand, and then buy a 10 grand car, that'll get you out of debt much faster.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So and, and let's just put this out here, George. I know in my life, I'm pretty sure I know yours, but let's just put this out there. You're pretty good with money, pathologically. So I call you and I have money questions.

[George Campbell]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I trust you. Have you bought a new car in my life since you started cleaning up your money mess?

[George Campbell]

No, no, I haven't bought a new car ever. Personally. Yeah, I just got a new to me car and it was almost new and I still couldn't, I couldn't fathom paying the MSRP retail price. So instead I found one that was slightly used and I got a 22% discount.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I did the exact same thing. My discount wasn't near that high because I bought a reputable brand instead of the one you brought. That helps. But like even I couldn't bring myself to buy a brand new car. Car. It was new that year, but someone had driven it and they had brought it back. For what?

[George Campbell]

And we are both in a place where we. You could. And it would not be against the Ramsey parameters, because here's what we say. If you have a net worth of a million or more, you can stomach the depreciation, you can buy the new car in cash, or as Dave says.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can you just take that money and set it on fire in your living room and your, your family will still be able to continue on, right? And so it's this. Even if you get like a deal and a thing and all the fees taken off, the second you drive that Ford Maverick off the lot, it's worth less.

[George Campbell]

It's 10%.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You could back it up and resell it back to them for the even the same price you just got it minus all the fees and everything. And so like I've never heard of anybody buying a new carring themselves out of debt. And that really isn't a real sentence I just made up. But you can't buy yourself a new car to get yourself out of debt. Debt you just either have to suck it up and pay off this Honda Civic, this 21, which will last you for all of your life, or like George said, sell it and get a 20. A 2005 Honda Civic that's still running for 3,000 bucks and it looks ridiculous. And drive that until you pay everything off.

[George Campbell]

I drove one of the. I had an 09 Honda Civic I drove up until a few years ago.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's still driving somewhere.

[George Campbell]

Well, here's the truth. Kelly Daniel, your producer, her son bought it and then he crashed it within two weeks. I bet you they it's on a pound lot somewhere.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Nope. I bet you they somebody with a hammer and a chisel like fix the thing and it's still driving somewhere.

[George Campbell]

They are truly invincible vehicles. Those are great.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So, yeah, I think you're stuck in a broke people maze here. And I would choose a better role model than your brother who's about to get you into a lifetime warranty and yet absolve you of all the. He said all the fees are taken off except that lifetime warranty. That's thousands of dollars extra that you paid. That's mostly commission to him. So.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey, I think it's worth calling out here when you're trying to get out of debt. I fit. I. I faced this today, George. Somebody sent me something. I'm trying to. I want to buy a place where I can go hunting that's just mine, right? And I can invite a couple of buddies. Somebody sent me something today that's really amazing and it's actually at a really amazing price. And I don't have that money. And if you're trying to get out of debt, it's. It's amplified. A hundred percent of the people who get out of debt have a quote, unquote great opportunity from their uncle. Their dad's trying to sell a thing. Or I'm just going to sell you this guitar or this. What? It's always going to come and you have to stick to it. It's just like getting on a really firm nutrition plan for a season and then somebody shows up at your house with three dozen cookies they just made for your family. Because you have a choice to make. When that happens, there's always going to be a new a deal, a shinier.

[George Campbell]

Newer, better thing in front of you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It can be a great deal. It's just not a good deal for you, especially during the season.

[George Campbell]

So let this be an exercise in saying no. All right, Peggy is in Colorado Springs up next. What's going on? Peggy?

[Caller]

Hi.

[George Campbell]

Hey. How can we help?

[Caller]

Well, I wanted to ask, get some advice. My husband and I are in our middle 70s and youngsters. Youngsters, we feel like it. We have had an opportunity come up to take a cruise in Europe from Rome to Istanbul. And it's going to cost, I figure I've been creating a budget for it and it looks like it's going to cost, I can barely say it, about $35,000 for the whole thing. And I'm just trying to find out if we should even be thinking about spending that kind of money.

[George Campbell]

What's your net worth?

[Caller]

About 1.5, 1.6 million somewhere in there.

[George Campbell]

And how are you guys covering all of your expenses right now?

[Caller]

We have a paid for house that's worth about $800,000. And we have, our monthly regular income is about 9,000. And then we each have little part time jobs, so to speak. And so that's a little bit of extra income. That's not part of that 9,000.

Great.

[George Campbell]

So maybe call it like 10,000amonth. You're making, you know, six figures a year, no payments, no mortgage. How much money do you have saved for the trip?

[Caller]

Well, I had, I've been looking at cruises like this for a couple of years now. And in fact this cruise it came up, they got a note from a letter from his alumni association from his college and it was this particular cruise and it's one I had been looking at. And it was with the cruise line I had decided that we would cruise with whenever we did it.

[George Campbell]

Serendipitous.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you have 35,000?

[Caller]

Well, we'd have to take it out of some of it. I have about 10,000 toward what I was saving for the cruise. So the rest of it was come.

[George Campbell]

Out of your retirement account.

[Caller]

It would come out of one of our retirement accounts.

[George Campbell]

I mean you're probably not going to be depleting those retirement accounts in the next few years, right? You got 9,000 coming in outside of that.

[Caller]

Yeah, we what I've been doing since we both have earned income with the RMDs we have to take from the IRA we've been funding our Roth IRA.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Peggy, guess what? You're going to Europe.

[George Campbell]

I feel like a game show host.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're to going to Europe. Go and have the time of your life. Take tons of pictures and rub it in your kids faces.

[George Campbell]

And don't do the math on what it's costing you per hour to enjoy the trip. Just enjoy the trip. Have fun.

[Announcer]

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[George Campbell]

Michael is in South Carolina up next. Michael, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. Appreciate what you guys do. So I'm in a sales position that has like a baseball plus a bonus that you get throughout the year. Then you get a bigger bonus at the end of the year. End of the year is here and I'm expected to get a bonus or I will get a bonus that I will most likely never get again. So I want to use this money as best my wife and I possibly could. And so how big is this bonus? 200,000. It's about $200,000 before taxes.

[George Campbell]

Good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is there any openings?

[George Campbell]

You guys hiring?

[Caller]

Well, yes, there are. But hey, what do you say?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm interested. Why do you think you'll never have this good of a again?

[Caller]

So the way our structure is that you get your base salary and then based upon the quota, your percentage of your quota, you get a bonus based on what percentage of your quota you get to and that bonus is a percentage of your base salary. It's confusing. It's actually pretty common in the sales world these days. But so I basically had a pretty low quota last year and blew it out of the water. And so I know my quota this year is just going to get higher and higher and higher and I expect to blow it out of the water.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Don't you blow that one out of the water, dude. Yeah, man.

[George Campbell]

So what's your total Salary for the year, if you get this 200,000.

[Caller]

Base salary right now is about $80,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so 80 plus the 200.

[Caller]

I got commissions. I got commissions throughout the year that totaled about $60,000 or so.

[George Campbell]

Nice.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Homie had the year, man. 340.

[Caller]

Yeah, it was a good year. It was a good year.

[George Campbell]

Great. Are you married?

[Caller]

I am. I'm married. We have two kids. And the dilemma that we're in. So we. We have a house that we bought like five years ago, and we just recently moved into a new house new to us. And we rent the other house out. It's got about $100,000 left on it at a 3% interest rate. The new house we're in has like $290,000 on it at a 7.25%. So you're probably getting at where I'm going.

[George Campbell]

Sure. How much do you guys have in savings?

[Caller]

So in our savings. So we have in our savings and our. If I log into my apps, about $20,000. We have about 10 to 15,000 of brokerage account that's totally separate. And then I have some retirement accounts and stuff as well and any other.

[George Campbell]

Debt outside of these two mortgages.

[Caller]

So I would normally say no, except I did recently buy a mower and it's 0% down for a year. So I've just been Michael saying what it will cost to pay it off any. I know, bro.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You make 340 grand this year. But I'm gonna finance a thousand dollars.

[Caller]

But I'm putting like 200 bucks a bucks on it.

[George Campbell]

Okay, well, we'll pay that off with your bonus. How about we start with a stretch.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And pay that off?

[Caller]

All right, deal.

[George Campbell]

What will be the actual net net from all of this? Like, how much will you net by Christmas to be able to throw at these mortgages?

[Caller]

I'm hoping to have, I'm going to say 100,000, but I mean, it could be possibly 120 to $130,000 that I could do anything I want with.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So if I was in your shoes, normally we'd say let's knock out the primary mortgage first. But if you can knock out this rental mortgage with one fell swoop.

[Caller]

Whoop.

[George Campbell]

And free up that payment to now apply to the other mortgage, I would go that route and attack the. The primary aggressively at that point.

[Caller]

Okay, that's kind of where I was leaning as well.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. And, and, and good. Can I just say, dude, out of the gate, you know what you're thinking? Like, you're thinking like a Farmer. Like the old school farmers that have a homestead? Yeah, they have. Do you have a homestead?

[Caller]

We do. We have some garden and some animals that bring in some stuff. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So like this, like this idea has as a culture, but farmers for all of human history would have a year that was just record yield. And it was amazing. And they knew that doesn't happen every year. And every five to seven to 10 years, there's a bust year.

[Caller]

Right, right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so the fact that you're as young as you are, as successful as you are, knowing I crushed it this year, I made 340k this year. I'm probably not going to make that next year. Most people in your situation go buy a house based on I make 340 a year and they buy 2 stupid car. Good on you, man. This is awesome.

[George Campbell]

And I would, I would enjoy some of it, too. So I think you and your wife sit down and go, hey, we're going to knock out the mortgage. Anything above and beyond that. Well, and the mower. Anything above and beyond that, we're going to enjoy some of it. We're going to give some of it. Maybe stack some in the emergency fund if you want to beef that up a little bit. And man, that's going to free up some cash flow because now you're. That property is cash flowing pretty nicely with no mortgage on it. What will you be netting from that property once it's paid off?

[Caller]

Off? It'll be about $700 after rent is what we'll get for it.

[George Campbell]

700 bucks profit.

[Caller]

That's right.

[George Campbell]

Are you even profiting? Right. It sounds like you're losing money on this thing right now then.

[Caller]

Well, so the mortgage on the house is about 700 and we charge about 1400 for it. So I'll bring in about 700.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, but net.

[Caller]

But once I pay off the mortgage.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But yeah, you pay off the mortgage, you'll be making 1,400amonth, right?

[Caller]

That's right.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, that's what I was getting in my head.

[Caller]

It's like I want put some of it back into it. But yeah, I guess I would be netting for.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, I forgot. You're really wise. My bad. Yes. Like, man, if you put a. If you keep a small fund for taxes and insurance in that. In that house, and if you start building a small emergency fund for when, not if the air conditioner fails and the roof needs to be replaced, bro, you are so far ahead. So far ahead, man. That's incredible, dude.

[George Campbell]

And I would, I would say sit with your Wife and set maybe a four or five year goal to knock out your primary mortgage because how old are you two?

[Caller]

30.

[George Campbell]

30. So think about this. 35 years old. You have not a payment in the world.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Two paid for houses.

[George Campbell]

Two paid for houses. One's cash flowing and you're still making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. It's a pretty sweet life.

[Caller]

Yeah, that would be amazing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or how about this? What if you did a hold my beer and you said I want to scratch and claw honey for one more year. I want to be the most aggressive salesperson on my team team. And they're going to give me a bananas quota and I'm going to crush it too. Let's see if we can pay this house off in 18 months. Our primary house. Oh yeah, you know what I mean? And then, but then have a destination after that. We pack up and we all go to Disneyland or Disney World or wherever and. Or we go to Jamaica. Whatever you want to do. And then you look at her in the eye and say then I'm going to exhale. I'm not going to be the most crazed out aggressive because I want to be present for you and these kids. But we have a chance in the next 24 months to set us up forever.

[Caller]

All right, well it sounds like I'm on the right page. My mind was like, well hey, should I focus on refinancing this house to bring this payment down or do I just pay off the other house completely?

[George Campbell]

You can figure out what the break even is on. You know when you're actually going to break even on that refinance because it'll cost you a little bit.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Seven to five. And bringing it down to what, what is it right now? Five and a half.

[George Campbell]

Are you on a 30 year?

[Caller]

I'm on a 30 year right now. Yep.

[George Campbell]

You could probably refinance into a 15 and have, you know, rate in the fives right now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That'd be worth it.

[George Campbell]

Your payment's going to go up because it's a 15, but you'll knock that thing out within a few years and be done with it. Cuz way more is going to principal. I dare you to go look at that amortization schedule. You're going to throw up. Seeing how much is going to interest versus principal on that balance.

[Caller]

Oh, I hate it. Every time, every month and I get the statement. I'm like oh.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I don't know if you're like me. I and my wife always makes fun of me about this. I have a weird thing about the first number. Number, Right. So when we were paying off debt, I was like, I just need to get it with a two in front. I just need to get with a one in front. Right. Even if it was 199,999, like I just needed to get that number. If I'm you, I'm looking at that seven in front. If I could refinance that and even I was going to recoup in 12 to 18 months and I could get a five in front, I would just feel better. You know what I mean?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah. I'd get in touch with like a best case scenario. Go ahead.

[George Campbell]

No, I was just going to say if you want to just run the numbers, our friends at Churchill Mortgage can just help show you the numbers and go, hey, this makes sense or this doesn't make sense based on your situation and the market.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I'll tell you my. When I call.

[Caller]

When I called Churchill website, when I.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, when I called Churchill and asked about refinancing a couple years ago, the first thing my Churchill person told me is I'm going to dig into this and run the numbers. I will not take your business if this isn't good deal for you. And that's how I knew. Oh, you're. You're my right person.

[George Campbell]

Real deal.

[Caller]

Yeah. Well, that's great. That's awesome.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey, congratulations on a.

[Caller]

Giving me a little bit of a.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Congrats on a great.

[George Campbell]

Can I ask what you sell?

[Caller]

I sell security systems, fire alarms, that kind of stuff.

[George Campbell]

You're dang good at it, dude. They don't give out money to people who, who aren't making them a lot.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of money, especially sales. Sales people.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. You've earned it and more. So congratulations. And you can jump on a church showmortgage.com and get in touch with their team over there and help you run these numbers and it might save you some. I think at the rate you're going, you're just going to knock this out. And so they might go, yeah, if you're going to knock it out in two years, may not be worth it, but it's going to be seven. Sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let's refine it and have an amazing Christmas for your wife. Do something cool for her.

[George Campbell]

Get a crazy gift that blows her mind.

[Caller]

Sam.

[George Campbell]

The all new everydollar is here and now. It's way more than just our world class budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features to help you make faster progress with your money. And the average person finds thousands of dollars in Margin in just the first 15 minutes. So start everydollar for free today. You can get it in the App Store or Google Play. Mark is in Ohio up next. Mark, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call. It's an honor.

[George Campbell]

Absolutely. How can John and I help?

[Caller]

Well, I'm calling about my father.

[George Campbell]

He's.

[Caller]

He's been a Christian for probably nearly 50 years. He spends his life, you know, every day serving people. That's his calling. And he owned a construction business for something like 35 years. And during that time, he's. He's acquired a lot of rental properties, all debt free. And the issue is, what I'm calling you today is talk about, is that he doesn't have a will or an estate plan. And he says that he doesn't need one because he believes that the Lord will return before his death or, you know, during his lifetime.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so.

[Caller]

So how do I encourage him to do that without making it feel like, you know, he's questioning his own faith? And who am I to do that? You know?

[George Campbell]

What date does he have in mind? Can he tell me when the Lord would be arriving? No, no, he.

[Caller]

No, he doesn't have any date or anything like that.

[George Campbell]

Just before he croaks, he's like, it's definitely gonna happen before I pass.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah. That's what he.

[George Campbell]

And he knows that he has good authority.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, here's what I would say. Dude, this is. This is a very tough situation. I would sit down with him and say, dad, like, watching you do life has been one of the greatest learning lessons and, like, coolest things any son could ever have. I've watched you serve people. I've watched you probably. He probably gives rent below market value, Right? He probably takes care of people. Is that true?

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So, like, if you lead off this conversation by saying, like, watching how you serve your local community and you go make money and you figured out how to do both of those well, and you've dedicated your life to God, like, all that's amazing. It's been a high privilege being your son. Can I ask one thing of you? In the event. In the event that something does happen to you before the Lord returns, this would be a huge mess for me.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Would you do me the honor? Honor. And because some people think wills are for them. Would you do me the honor of putting this stuff down in writing on the off chance? Because you're not going to convince him, right? Like, you're not going to make a rational argument. He's gonna be like, you know what, you're right. He's not going to do that. And so really what you're, what you're appealing to in this moment is your sense of discomfort. Yeah, that's. That to me is the only shot you got. Do you have siblings?

[Caller]

Yeah, there's ten.

[George Campbell]

Ten of us. That sounds fun. So how does he feel about the government?

[Caller]

He's not a fan.

[George Campbell]

Well, he is a fan because he's letting the government decide what happens with his estate.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's the way to say it.

[Caller]

Yeah, you're right. You know, we've, I've talked about.

[George Campbell]

He loves the government action. He trusts the government to handle all of his estate planning. Right now he's hired him out.

[Caller]

Yeah, you're right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And they're happy to do whatever they want with his property.

[George Campbell]

They're happy to take his probate fees on top of his estate taxes as all this unfolds. So here's what I would say. Even if Jesus returns tomorrow, Scripture still calls us to be wise stewards today because we don't know what tomorrow is going to bring. And so you can appeal with that, you can appeal with the government angle, you can appeal with the mark wants it for security and peace of mind angle. Because here's what we do know. The calls that we take on the show where 10 siblings are involved dividing up a very complicated estate never ends well. It ends with relational resentment.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And Even if all 10 of y' all are on the same page, which there's zero percent chance of that, right?

[Caller]

Oh yeah, right, right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's those 10. And y' all have all married other people.

[Caller]

You're right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And they all have cousins and they all think that by marrying into a construction empire empire that they're going to suddenly get rich.

[George Campbell]

And uncle Randy wants a piece because he helped him with that deal one time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. He told me. He promised, he promised me and bro getting 10 signatures to simply sell $110,000 rental property is a nightmare.

[George Campbell]

It'll be a reality show on HTTP tv, I'll tell you that much.

[Caller]

Right? Yeah. That's my biggest fear, you know, is causing issues amongst the family.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you told him that? Because that's another big one. Dad, I want to.

[Caller]

I don't know that I have.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want this family. I want my brothers and sisters. I want us to all stay united after you pass. In the event you pass before Jesus returns, I want us to all stay united. And this will be tough. Like you're almost guaranteeing that y' all will all dissolve your relationship in some shape, form or fashion.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I hate that you're in this situation, man, because your dad sounds like a pretty amazing guy. He's just got this thing in his mind that's pretty tough, and it might be a protective measure for him because he doesn't want to. He has been a pretty strong guy and a guy that's always been in control of who he's giving and his. His own company and all that. And the thought of being in a hospital bed. Said the thought of passing away is so heavy that it's easier to create a story that. No, no, I. I know it's going to happen. Which if Scripture's pretty clear, you don't have any idea when it's going to come. Nobody does.

[Caller]

Right, right.

[George Campbell]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Well, hopefully if he hears this, maybe this will help persuade him.

[George Campbell]

I hope so, man. Send him.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, send him a call. Send him a call.

[Caller]

Call.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because, I mean, George and I are both sitting here. What an amazing guy. What an amazing legacy he's left. And what. What a way to pit brother against brother and sister against sister, or brother's wife's cousin suing everybody because they tripped and fell on one of the houses and they're. You know what I'm saying? It's just, golly, what a recipe for dissension among your family tree that. That you spent so much time watering and growing.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

There's so much out of his control, and yet there's so much in his control, and this is one of the things he can control during his time left here on Earth. And I hope it's a long one. All right, let's get to Sue, North Carolina Sue. Get right to the question. We're up against the clock. How can we help today?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. I was calling, actually, to find out when you sell your house. That's what my husband are getting ready to put our house up on the market on February 1st of 2020. And the big thing is that we're having a problem with when we were moving up near St. Louis from Charlotte, North Carolina. And my husband and I are not agreeing on where we should live. You know, if we should go ahead.

And build a house while we're living.

In our house, or should we. And fill in our house or should we, you know, rent there and then build? So I don't want to rent, but he does.

[George Campbell]

What's his argument for rental?

[Caller]

You know, each other's throats about it.

[George Campbell]

What is it? Is he stressed out with the idea of Trying to sell this house and we don't have the money from the equity and we're trying to build this new one and we need a loan for that.

[Caller]

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't interrupt.

[George Campbell]

I'm just, I'm trying to get to the bottom of it.

[Caller]

Yeah, we have 225,000 equity.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

We're doing well and we bring in, you know, about 8,000amonth. You know, we're retired, we're lower 60 and we don't have too much debt. So we're just. This is.

We've been in this house for 25.

Years and it's a turnkey. So everything's ready. I'll accept just a few little repairs, like about $5,000 worth.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I can tell you. Sue, every time me and my wife have moved, especially we move towns. We always rent for six months at least.

[George Campbell]

Lease, okay, compromise the short term lease just to kind of get the lay of the land, get your bearings. Cuz moving is already so stressful.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Where's the grocery stores? Where is the nearest place for the grandkids? Like all those little like, where's the restaurants? All of that stuff, man, finding a new place in a new community, that's a, that's, that's a tough lifestyle shift.

[George Campbell]

And then the timing of it gets tight to try to time it all to sell. Yours close on yours, yours close on the new one, all in the right time. So if you can make all that happen and not be stressed financially or otherwise, go for it. But I think there's a lot of wisdom just renting for just six months, it's not a long time. You can put your stuff in storage.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then say, okay, I'll rent. But you gotta hire like turnkey movers that will get it out of the storage space and put it exactly where I want it. And he has to leave town while the move happens.

[George Campbell]

Oh yeah.

[Announcer]

You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets. I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pro. Whether you're looking for car, home or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would find what you [e-mail] insurance.

[George Campbell]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel, joined by my good friend Dr. John Deloney, and we're taking your calls at 888825 5225. Give us a call. We'll try to help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Tyler is in Texas. Up next. What's going on?

[Caller]

Tyler, hello. Nice to. Nice to be talking with you today.

[George Campbell]

You as well.

[Caller]

I am. I'm a married man. I just. I just became a dad last year. My year and a half.

[George Campbell]

Fantastic.

[Caller]

And we, we just got rid of over $100,000 in student loans.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, dude. Congrats, brother.

[Caller]

Thank you very much. And now we're in a interesting predicament. So we want to buy a house. We are completely debt free at the moment. But I am currently with the second job. I'm the maintenance man at our proper complex part time. And we have free rent.

[George Campbell]

Oh heck yeah.

[Caller]

And we. So we'd love to. We'd love to get into a bigger house and we kind of need it, but gosh, how can I walk away from that?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

One word, three words. Sorry. I was gonna say one word.

[George Campbell]

One three word.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

One three word sentence. All right, ready?

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

With a plan.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

My wife and I did the exact thing. I moved into a residence hall. One of the things at the university was over. I was over housing. So we got to live in that apartment for free. And there was me and my wife and a toddler in a very small place. And it worked for a season. And so we had a plan. We had an end date. But that end date was contingent on two things. One, my wife and I shook hands on it. And two, there was financial goal we were going to try to get to.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think the challenge for you guys is this thing kind of feels indefinite, Right?

[Caller]

It's indefinite. And we feel like the end date of this is going to be dependent on getting a certain amount of down payment.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Great.

[Caller]

And being able to achieve a certain monthly payment that we think would be very manageable and would give some wiggle room to give us some incidental spending without dipping into our emergency fund. Because we, we don't want to be house trapped with too. Too much of a payment.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Absolutely.

[Caller]

But where we're. We want a three, ideally a four bedroom house and something like that. Where we are living is looking at about a quarter million dollars.

[George Campbell]

Okay, great.

[Caller]

And. And that's. That's not undoable.

[George Campbell]

But most of America is like, that's it. That's amazing. I want to move to your town, dude.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Don't tell anyone what town you live in because everyone will move. Move there.

[Caller]

Right? Right. Well, we want to keep our payments under two grand a Month for sure. With, with everything.

[George Campbell]

So we have our magic numbers. The house is going to cost 250. We want to keep the payments around two grand. So how much down do you need? I can do the math for you right now. On a 15 year, you're looking at maybe 60 grand down. Does that sound right?

[Caller]

Yeah, sounds about right to me.

[George Campbell]

How much do you have currently saved outside of your emergency fund fund?

[Caller]

We've got 14,000 directly dedicated for down payment at the moment. And we, we can probably do $3,500 momentum towards that a month.

[George Campbell]

One year from now. You have your number.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tada, Tada.

[George Campbell]

42 plus the 14 with high yield savings account, you'll get right around 60.

[Caller]

So a year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you sit down with your wife and you say we have one year of. And if y' all want to cut spending, she wants to make some money on the side, whatever. It just accelerates this.

[Caller]

Right, but.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if we get $60,000, we have 14. So we have 46,000 bucks left to go. It's gonna take us about a year and then we're out of here.

[Caller]

Well, cool.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Deal.

[Caller]

So within the Dave Ramsey framework, it is within the realm of blessing to walk away from free living in favor of something like this.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Then Dave pays an insane amount of money. Money to keep up his various houses. Yes.

[George Campbell]

Free rent would never stop Dave from buying real estate, I'll tell you that much. He would just use it to accelerate buying more real estate. Because here's the other thing to think about. That real estate is going to cost you more five years from now. And so at some point the free rent party is going to end. At some point you're not going to want to live in an apartment or you're going to have a big enough family where it doesn't make sense. And so I would start planning for that day day. And it starts today, my friend.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's awesome, dude.

[Caller]

I appreciate that. Well, thank you for the. Thank you for that advice. That's really helped.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey, and congrats for your new kid. Congrats on you being a dad who is. And a husband who is putting in two jobs to, to put his family in a position where they're gonna. That's all. This is awesome. We don't get to talk to a lot of great dads and great husbands. You're one of those guys. And so it's, it's an honor to talk to you brother.

[George Campbell]

And the fact that you've created $3,500 in margin just to throw at this savings it just blows my mind. It's fantastic. Very inspired man. Than the call. Elizabeth is up next in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. What's going on, Elizabeth?

[Caller]

Hi. My question is if I can afford to put my kids into a Catholic school.

[George Campbell]

Ooh, what's that cost?

[Caller]

So it is about six to seven grand a year, is my understanding.

[George Campbell]

Per child.

[Caller]

Per child.

[George Campbell]

How many kids?

[Caller]

And I. So I have two kids and they won't need the first one. Wouldn't start for another year and a half.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Do you have 14 grand of net income to throw at this without derailing any other financial goals?

[Caller]

Well, with 30 daycare costs, I feel like my thought is that would just channel into what the cost of Catholic school is so that I feel like we're making things work right now with daycare costs.

[George Campbell]

When you say making things work, are. Are things tight? Do you guys have debt you're trying to pay off? Do you have savings?

[Caller]

We just our mortgage to pay, and I'd say we're probably like pretty close to breaking even each month as far as expenses going out with mortgage and daycare and then just household things.

[George Campbell]

Are you investing right now, etc.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so you're investing 15%, you have an emergency fund, you have no debt, you're doing the baby steps to a table and. But all the money is allocated to those places. And right now you don't have extra money to throw at, let's say the mortgage or toward kids college funds pretty much. So what's the plan with that stuff? If this is the foreseeable future for the next, I don't know, 10 years?

[Caller]

That's a good question. I mean, as far as knowing that daycare currently with two kids is probably about 25 grand that I'm paying a year, I see the balance as. Okay, this isn't as expensive as that, so I should be able to.

[George Campbell]

So the 10 grand you save, you could funnel toward 529 plans for college. Throw a little bit at the mortgage.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Campbell]

I mean, it sounds reasonable. What's your household income?

[Caller]

About 160 a year. And my husband is commission, so his is a little bit more fluctuating.

[George Campbell]

It's variable. Okay. Yeah. I mean, it's green flags for me. If this is a big value to you guys, it's a part of your faith and you want to do this and you have the money and it's not derailing your other financial goals. I'm good with it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's what it's going to cost you, though.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want to be sober about it.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Given the financial picture you just gave George and I, it's. It's or me and George. It's going to cost you. Y' all are going to be a Camry family.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you're not going to go buy the big Suburban. And when you get into the middle school and high school and your kids are doing sports and athletics and everyone's rolling up and new Escalades and stuff like that because it's a private school.

[George Campbell]

And going on vacations, going Fall break.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. Y' all are gonna. This is. This is enough of a value for y' all that it's gonna be worth. We're gonna be a used Camry family because this is that big of a deal to us. And that's okay. Hey, that's amazing. I love that choice. But I want you to make those choices with sobriety, not always being like, man, I wish a different car. We need a bigger house. Nope. This was our value, and this is what we chose.

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[George Campbell]

Buying or selling your home is a big deal, and there's a lot of clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there. So we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices dipped a bit last month to about 426,000, and buyers have more options and negotiating power. And sellers may be facing more competition. Right now, mortgage rates dipped slightly to five and a half percent in September, which is giving buyers some breathing room. But since rates are unpredictable, the best time to buy is when you're financially ready, not when rates drop. So to learn more about housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, head to ramseysolutions.com market or click the link in the show Notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube, Ashley and Dan are up next in Virginia. What's going on, guys?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hi.

[Caller]

So we recently moved from the south from Baton Rouge, Louisiana to Virginia. We previously tithed. Thank you. We previously tithed at a church that we had been going to probably almost a decade in Baton Rouge, and we haven't found a church home yet. We've tried a couple and we've been looking around and we just don't really know where to tithe. I was a very strict tither and my husband Dan did probably like at the end of every year he would just do 10% of everything he made. He would don't donate at the end of the year. So we just don't know where we should tithe to now.

[George Campbell]

Great question.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Where. Where are you feeling convicted to give?

[Caller]

I really loved our church. We both really loved our church that we used to go to. And if we're not together, if I go visit home or something, we'll still watch that church that's in Baton Rouge. And so that's where I tithed until we started going somewhere new. And then I gave one time a tithe to one of the churches that we went to because I felt like, you know, I probably should do something here in my local community instead of at home. But now I just don't know. Since we haven't settled.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are there a bunch of kids in your community that just lost food benefits?

[Caller]

I don't believe so. I think Virginia is still doing all the food benefits, like statewide. But that is, that is a consideration. The church that we have been going to has been giving a lot of money, I think in related $20,000 to communities that had lost or were at risk of losing food benefits.

[George Campbell]

Well, let me free you. There's no wrong way to give as long as you're doing it with a, with a joyful spirit. And so you're not going to screw this up.

[Caller]

Up.

[George Campbell]

If you're asking the options, you could give to your old church for now, you could give to every new church you jump into on Sunday. You could stack it all up and give at the end of the year. Maybe you find a, a church home and you just save up all that money and, and throw it at that new church that you call home.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or you can go find a local elementary school and say we hear there might be a gap in school breakfast and lunches and we want to be a part of filling that of kind gap. It's consider the spirit of the thing, not the maybe the destination.

[Caller]

Right?

Yes, that makes sense. That makes sense.

Yes.

[George Campbell]

I'm just Proud of you guys. That's a really cool thing to say. This is a really important value to us and we want it to go somewhere and we just don't know exactly where until we land.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so keep George's words in your head, which is a sentence I've never said before.

[Announcer]

Wow. Wow.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You can't mess this up. Generosity is.

[Caller]

Thank you so much.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Generosity is a posture. It's a way to do life right.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

I think you're going to do the right thing. Whatever that thing is, whatever you do, it was the right thing. I want you to know that John is in San Diego up next. John, welcome to the Ramsey Show. How can we help today?

[Caller]

Hey, yeah, thanks for jumping on with me. I just have quick question for you guys to see where to put some money and kind of pick your brain a little bit. I'm 20. Excuse me, 30 years old. I live in San Diego, California. I've got no debt at all. My company pays for my car. I just have to pay the gas on it as well as very minimal monthly expenses and make about $300,000 a year and have about 200,000 in savings. And I'm just curious to know if there's anything I can do to put this money anywhere to help save on taxes. I don't own any houses or anything like that. That and also I just feel like in San Diego it's kind of impossible to buy a house with what I've got going as well.

[George Campbell]

It's impossible to buy a house with what you've got going. What does that mean?

[Caller]

Just like the income that I have and the savings that I have and just the prices in San Diego have absolutely soared in my job.

[George Campbell]

Okay, what, so you're a single guy?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so what does a small home in your area cost that you would want to put. Buy. Give us a number.

[Caller]

Probably about 1.4.

[George Campbell]

How much would you need as a down payment to make that a manageable mortgage payment in your world?

[Caller]

Probably about seven grand, I think would be what it would be right now with 20% down, which seems like a lot.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so 20% is the goal. That's the number that would get you into a home.

[Caller]

Correct. I'm just trying to avoid that pmi. But is that even smart to have to do as well or should I just look at other avenues, like buying out of state to continue renting here? I don't know. I feel lost.

[George Campbell]

Well, you don't need a house right now. You're a single guy. If you want a house that's fine. I don't know that you need a $1.4 million starter home. Now, I know prices are insane out there. That's probably a starter home in San Diego. But you're telling me that it's impossible for a guy with no debt with 200 grand saved, making $300,000 a year, that he'll never be able to afford a home in San Diego.

[Caller]

That's what it's seeming like.

[George Campbell]

And you said you have very little expense. How much can you save per year at this point? If you're living frugally and throwing most of your net income at that savings.

[Caller]

Goal, probably 80 to 100 out of 300.

[George Campbell]

So you're saying 300 gross, you net.

[Caller]

What, 180 or so around there, Depending. It's variable, a lot of it's commissioned. So it's between 315 grand a month.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Could somehow figure out, with no expenses and no debt, how to scrape by on $80,000 by yourself.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I bet you could scrape by for less than.

[George Campbell]

Less than ballpark, though. You could throw $100,000 a year into the savings. Right. So four years from now, you have $600,000 saved. I think that can get you a house.

[Announcer]

House.

[Caller]

So just hold off a little longer.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. It's not like. It's not an hour.

[Caller]

Never in that meantime. Correct. Is there anything I can do in that meantime between now and the next four years to help me save on taxes?

[George Campbell]

Well, that's a different question. Buying a house for a saving on taxes. If you're a W2 employee, there's not a whole lot you can do. Now you can max out traditional 401k. That'll help a little bit.

[Caller]

Bit.

[George Campbell]

But there's not like some magic trick. If you're W2, John and I pay a whole bunch of taxes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I'll tell you this. You are in the. I'll make up a term. You're in the squash bracket, where if you made significantly less, there's programs to help you with taxes or to pay none. And if you made significantly more, you're in this big wild. It's a whole nother another universe of buying a property over here and moving it over here and triple stamping a double stamp. You are in the squash, where you are making a significant amount of money and you're getting crushed on taxes. And you live in one of the highest tax states in the country, and you live in a really very high.

[George Campbell]

Cost of living area.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

High cost of living, expensive place to live. So you have three. Three like really gnarly compounding variables on you. But this is a conversation folks who make. And nobody has any sympathy, right? Nobody. But people who are making 300 grand to 1 1.5 million are getting hammered on taxes because they're just below the big games that guys with tons of money play with tax money and they're just above any sort of relief program whatsoever.

[Caller]

Sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So this is where you are. And as one of my buddies once, I one time I called him and said, hey, this is, I've never had this happen in my life. I had a book go number one. I called him and said, I just need to tell one person, he's a banker, how much I spent in taxes last year. And he said, good God, that's a lot. And then he goes, wait a minute. That means you make a bunch of money. I'm never paying for drinks or nachos again. And we all started laughing. And so there is, yes, you're paying a bunch of taxes. You can smile at night knowing that the, the roads are getting taken care of and the firefighters are showing up and so be it. Or you can just beat yourself over the head every night. But either way, you're in that category that's paying a ton of taxes and there's no games to play or relief in your, in your bracket.

[George Campbell]

I just keep stacking as much cash as possible, keep living frugally, and sooner or later, you're going to have a half a million bucks. And I would get into the housing market when you can. I wouldn't wait a decade and I wouldn't do it tomorrow either. Or you can move out to the suburbs.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're paying a lot taxes and you're also winning incredibly.

[George Campbell]

Congratulations.

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[George Campbell]

You, Jenna is in Florida up next. Jenna, welcome to the show. What's going on?

[Caller]

Yes, hi. Thank you so much for taking my call today. I was calling, wanted to kind of see some professional help. I wanted to see if there's ever, ever a point where there's just too much debt. We don't worry about the debt. We just say, hey, pay minimum. So, you know, forever and just try to save up as much money as you can so you can actually try to enjoy retirement and life later on.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You sound tired, Jenna. Are you tired?

[Caller]

Tired, Nervous about what you guys are gonna say?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, you know what we're gonna say. Ramsey show.

[George Campbell]

But you're saying, hey, our debt is so insurmountable. Accountable. Should we just ignore it and have a wonderful retirement? I don't know how that thing leads to the other thing.

[Caller]

Right?

Yeah, like, it doesn't go away.

[George Campbell]

So either collectors come after you, sue you, or you file bankruptcy. It implodes your financial life for seven years. There's no, like, well, can we just pretend it didn't happen?

[Caller]

Well, no, I mean, we would pay, like, discontinue paying the minimums, but then try to also put money in savings.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How bad is it? How bad is it?

[George Campbell]

Give us some numbers.

[Caller]

Okay, so we have a car, 26,000 left on my husband's car. I have 47,000 in my student loan, and then we have 475,000 in my husband's student loan and then 525 for that house. So we've even, like, we've been trying to run numbers, our budget. We have margin, 3,000 left over. So it's just.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is your husband a physician?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so what's your household income?

[Caller]

So our income is 16,000amonth.

[George Campbell]

Is that your take home pay? That's what ends up in the bank?

[Caller]

Yes, that's what ends up in the bank every month is the 16,000.

[George Campbell]

Are you guys investing a single penny right now?

[Caller]

I believe I'm putting like 6% in retirement, and I think he's probably putting like 10%.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so you're about to get 16% of your household income back if you pause investing. Okay, did you get a refund last year on your taxes or did you owe?

[Caller]

No, we owed.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so that's 16% right there of your. What's the household income?

[Caller]

You said 16,000amonth.

[George Campbell]

Now what's your gross, gross household income for the year? Like, what was your. What did your tax return say you made?

[Caller]

My husband makes 250, and then I make 70. So 340.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so if we do 340, 16. You just got $55,000 back in your life on top of the 3,000amonth.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

On top of.

[George Campbell]

That's $90,000 now that you can use to tackle debt.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I've got more. He has to be an adult and sell this car because he can't afford it. And he's going to be the doctor that parks at the very back of the lot in a used Corolla.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm serious. And you know how I know this is possible? Because I was a guy with a PhD that drove a used Corolla and parked in the back of the lot lot. I was the guy with the second PhD that drove a 94F150 that I bought for $3000 out of some guy's field in West Texas.

[Caller]

Right, Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you know I drive now whatever I want.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

And then the other piece you said 16,000 is what you guys take home. What are your actual monthly expenses you need just to keep the lights on and cover the minimum debt payments.

[Caller]

Yeah.

So that's kind of. Our mortgage is 35amonth after all of our bills, private school, everything.

[George Campbell]

There we go. We just found a moneymaker. How much are you throwing at private school a month?

[Caller]

1200.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right. So there's another $14,000 a year on.

[George Campbell]

Top of the 90. Now we're over a hundred thousand dollars a year we can throw at the debt.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

Are you seeing what we're doing here?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And we're not even trying.

[George Campbell]

We're just soft tossing right now. If we actually looked at your budget and said, here's your actual income, 16,000. Well really it's going to be more. Once you guys pause investing, you're going to bring a few thousand back it. So let's call it 20,000 and now let's learn to live on seven. Well now there's 13 grand a month we can throw at the debt.

[Caller]

Right?

[George Campbell]

You get that? That's 156 grand a year. And if he sells the car, you're down to, let's see, 47 plus the 475, that's 522. And we're going to be debt free in less than four years.

[Caller]

And listen, right, because we even like floated the idea of like selling our home, but we love our home.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And no, you don't even have to do that because listen, I've studied, I've, I've, I, I've, I've worked through the mental health of physicians.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it's not good. And I'm convinced that this is one of the core issues is physicians and their spouses. It's hell. Seven years plus rotations, plus sleep, no sleep.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Plus matching, plus residency, all that stuff. And you finally get out and then you get that first check and you're like, finally I can da da dot dot.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then you add a whole bunch of crazy stressors. Because we're doctors. We're supposed to be rich, and you're broke. I've got people in my life who I love and care about who are working physicians who are still paying on their student loans, and now they have kids in college. Madness. Madness.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Literally, it's you guys taking. And by the way, if he works extra shifts or picks up ER shifts, gifts, which I have buddies that do, he can cut this in half. And you're talking about 24 months, 30 months, and you're free. And then you know what? Y' all are for real wealthy. Then you can live that doctor lifestyle.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You all make 300 grand and you're broke.

[Caller]

I know, it's embarrassing.

[George Campbell]

So are you willing to do what we said?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't think that's embarrassing. I think what's embarrassing is, is y' all are too smart to be this broke. Y' all are making daily choices to be miserable. You know what I mean? To be stressed out.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How old are your kids? She.

[Caller]

Well, she's three and a half.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She's three and a half. She won't even know what day it is. You could pull her out and put her in a Tuesday, Thursday score. I mean, in a Mother's Day out program five days a week at a church. Church.

[George Campbell]

I mean, it's Elmer's glue and googly eyes. We don't really need private school to do that right now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, you're good, man. Be in a position to send her to whatever school you want in your community when she hits third grade.

[Caller]

Right. No, I get it. It's just. I guess our thought was the private schools are just so hard to get into. We just. We had to start early, so that's kind of where how we ended up here.

[George Campbell]

That's how they like it. They want you to be like, you know what? Your three year old is good enough for us. Pay up.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And if you don't get into this school when they're three, they won't get into that school when they're seven. If they don't get that, then they're. It's. None of that's true. Zero of that is true. And by the way, after four years, he's a physician in your local community. He'll know somebody. Y' all will be fine.

[Caller]

Yeah.

Right? Yeah.

Yeah. It's reassuring because we were just running the numbers and we would just get frustrated and we would just say, you know what?

It's.

We're just going to have to pay minimum, the rest of our life kind of Thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, it's just going to be three years of y' all not acting like doctors, y' all acting like teachers.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And which, by the way, is still a good life.

[George Campbell]

I think you'll realize how much of that stuff you didn't really need and how exciting it is to be on the path to freedom instead of a path to hopelessness, which is what it is now. Well, we'll just make a minimum payments. We'll end up paying a million dollars for his student loans that were 475 Drive because we just let the interest build up and build up while we didn't attack the principal. And I just think you're. You're worth more than that. And you're worth being out of debt in the next three years and having the next 30 of freedom.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I guilt trip you for a second?

[Caller]

Sure, go ahead.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm gonna guilt trip you. But I'm really just sending this message out to anyone listening. I actually don't want my physician, the person that I go to and I'm not. I'm not. Okay, okay. Or let me make it. Let me one up it when my daughter's not okay. I don't want that guy stressed out of his mind because he can't breathe at his house. I don't want that woman, that physician that I bring my daughter to. I don't want her shaking while she's looking at my daughter because her bills are so high she can barely make her payments. But her kid's in the right school and she's got a nice depreciating asset out in the parking lot. And she has a spouse that is working and also making 70 grand, which is an amazing salary. I don't. I don't. I want a person in who's holding my daughter to exhale and be completely autonomous so they can make the next right decision for my daughter, not the one that's going to get them the most payout so they can make this payment so they can make.

[George Campbell]

Our scripture of the day. Proverbs 13, verse 3. Those who guard their lips preserve their lives. But those who speak rashly will come to ruin. Les Paul said, don't say you can't until you prove you can't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Attaboy, James Les Paul of the great Gibson guitar.

[George Campbell]

You didn't know? Deloney is a big Les Paul Gibson guitar fan.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

James is a Fender guy, which, to each his own kind of all you need to know. Oh, you are too.

[George Campbell]

I like both. I think they both have their, you know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, I Like Gibson for acoustic.

[George Campbell]

I like Fender for a.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like, you like cold brews, too? That's a whole other thing.

[George Campbell]

All right, Ryan is in Oregon. Up next. What's going on? Ryan, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Caller]

Thanks for having me. I have a question for you. Please. I'm a permanently disabled veteran, so I'm on a fixed income from the VA for the rest of my life.

And.

With a wife and three kids in the economy, it's been a challenge trying to save for retirement and, and trying to pay off my home. And I'm wondering if you have any ideas on how I can possibly save more or get higher end steps and whatnot.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's the nature of your disability, brother?

[Caller]

100%. I shattered both my legs, my ankles, and part of my back.

[George Campbell]

Oh, my goodness.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, on behalf of the regular civilians who are just going about our lives and don't realize the, the day in and day out pain you. You experience on our behalf, thank you. That input money in your account and that doesn't make your pain go away, but I want to just tell you. Thank you.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Appreciate you.

[Caller]

Thanks.

[George Campbell]

Wow. So what, what is your fixed income?

[Caller]

So I get 4200amonth. I have a wife and three kids. My wife has to stay home with me because I unfortunately need a lot of help. So, you know, with the price of everything and, you know, mortgage, a car, three children, there's just none left. And I'm having a hard time saving.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I just, it just escaped my mind. And I can take a bunch of time on this call looking it up, but I won't do that. There's a program, one of my closest friends in the world is a part of it, where he gets paid for taking care of his disabled brother. Have you all applied for that program?

[Caller]

We have, yes. We're waiting for that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, waiting for it.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's. That tends to be a huge relief.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I hope you guys get approved for that for sure because that'll help increase the income. So what are your current expenses every month? Are you guys doing a budget?

[Caller]

Absolutely. Cash flow system. And that's obviously helped a lot because we know exactly where each dollar is going and we were able to fine tune that. But I have a mortgage.

[George Campbell]

How much is that?

[Caller]

I live. It is 2,200 plus I. It's an HOA. So I pay an HOA fee on top.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Then all utilities, of course. I drive, if I do ever drive just a free, you know, beater, old, old Honda. And then my wife, we do have one auto Loan out for her.

[George Campbell]

How much is left on that?

[Caller]

$19,000 left on that.

[George Campbell]

What's the payment?

[Caller]

The payment is 390.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So if you've got. If you got rid of that car and had a cash car, you could then at least invest the 390. Is there any money left over right now as it stands, or you guys in the hole or you. Do you just be able to cover the bills with that 4200?

[Caller]

I'm able to cover the bills. I have about $10,000 in savings that I've been able to come up with. But I mean, that's over years because there's just not a lot. So I do have that, but we also need a new roof. So, you know, I'm. Do I pay off the car? Do I, you know, I got to get the roof and you know, so there's just, just. It's very challenging.

[George Campbell]

How urgent is the roof? Is this like tomorrow or is this three years from now?

[Caller]

Within the next six months.

[George Campbell]

Okay. I would continue stacking cash and get through the storm with the roof. And then we'll take a look at the car and see if it's worth selling that down. Downsizing into a cash car or saving up. I think that payment. Well, at least for you guys to invest something. The other glaring issue is that most of your income is going towards your mortgage and hobbies away.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

So is this housing situation the long term play or can we find something more affordable?

[Caller]

The big thing is I don't know if I was to sell my home, yes, I have equity. Everything else is even more.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So I don't even know what I could get into that would even save me much.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's what I'm hearing though, bro. You're doing. You are squeezing blood out of a rock every morning month. Most of the people who call into this show, there's like the last caller we just talked to. There's money everywhere.

[Caller]

Right, Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's not you. And so like the harrowing part of this conversation is like, you have a math problem. Y' all are doing amazing with what you got. And so the challenge here is it's.

[Caller]

Just, it's very hard to keep squeezing the same tomato over and over.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Absolutely. And that's where you have to ask ways a more what I would say more existential questions, which is we're in Oregon, which is an expensive place to live and it's a high tax area.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do we have to move to Kansas? Because that's the world. That's the cards. We're holding right now in our hand.

[Caller]

True. Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I wouldn't wish that on you, but I don't. I don't know. Like.

[Caller]

Right. And then also with the VA system, how's the VA in Kansas? You know what I mean?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Compared to. Yeah, I have no idea.

[Caller]

So that's a really big factor. Where I would live is based on the VA care systems around. Because they're not all the same.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Totally. And that's going to be one of the. That's like that energy you have, that desperation you have, which. Dude, I can hear it in your voice, man. Like, and it breaks my heart because you're. You're a dad who gave everything for all of our kids. And you're looking at this like you have a very clear trajectory for yourself, which is, I cannot work. And this is the amount of money we have right now. Hopefully you get approved for that program, which would give a ton of relief to your family. But without that, like, you all have to make a hard decision about, I gotta get on the phone and call all my buddies and find the best VAs in the country and see if I can find the lowest cost of living. And that might pull you away from family and resources and friends. I get all of that. That's a nightmare. But like you said, dude, this tomato is running out of juice. And tell me about your kids. How old are your kids?

[Caller]

15, 10 and 7.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So, I mean, you know this as well as I do. I have a 15 year old and 9 year old. You're one fun afternoon away from a broken arm. Right. Or whatever. Like running into a tree, just having a good time. And so. And then bam, there goes, like. So you're. I get that. I can hear it in you and your voice. You're. You're on a razor's edge.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The only thing I can see right now is y' all have to ask yourself way bigger questions. Or can your wife go earn 150 grand doing something? And again, I'm just making that up. And y' all can hire care for you. That might be the other way to gap it.

[Caller]

I wish that was possible. That's not either.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

God almighty.

[George Campbell]

There's only two ways to get margin here, and it's to spend less and make more. And you guys have done a lot to spend less. And we can get rid of the car payment at least, which will free up some breathing room. And on the other side, we got to figure out, can we make more? And maybe that's through her being a caretaker. And that gives you the breathing room you need. And then we can look at. Okay, what are the best investment options now without earned income, which your VA disability I don't believe counts as earned income because.

[Caller]

Correct, correct.

[George Campbell]

So you can't invest in an IRA because you need earned income to do that, but you can invest in a taxable brokerage account that's non retirement. And if your wife does end up making money, she can open a spousal IRA and invest in that which has some tax advantages. And then you've also got a high yield savings account you can take advantage of for your emergency fund, sinking funds, the roof fund, all of that. So there is a path forward, but there's some variables here that feel immovable right now that we've got to figure out. Figure out. And that's gonna, that's gonna be the hardest part.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And tell me about your, your disability benefits. Is there a. And, and brother, I know you've thought through every one of these things. I'm just throwing things up against the wall here. Do you have the ability to, to work from home or to side hustle from home?

[Caller]

No. And I legally can't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, that, that was my question with the. If you, if you were to get a online job, some shape form or fashion, you lose your benefits.

[Caller]

Right? Bingo.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Jeez Louise, man, what a nightmare.

[George Campbell]

Dude, I'm so sorry you're going through this, Ryan. There's no magic wand here for you. But I'm glad sit with it and help you brainstorm.

[Caller]

Yeah, no, and I've kind of looked at every, you know, avenue. I just wanted to ask, just to mean because I listen to you guys all the time. You might have an idea, then it's going to be.

[George Campbell]

I, I would kind of give it a timeline for you guys to try to know, navigate all this, try to increase the income, try to solve it. And if you can't, it's going to mean bigger life change like we talked about with lower cost of living. Where could we go to lower our expenses? If this.4200amonth, this is it. This is all we have. Then we got to get our expenses lower. And that might mean moving across the country.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I hate that you're in this situation, brother. I hate it. It's a disservice to you.

[George Campbell]

All right, until next time. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with, with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.