A Proven Plan Beats A Quick Fix Every Time

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show
Episode: “A Proven Plan Beats A Quick Fix Every Time”
Date: August 27, 2025
Hosts: Dave Ramsey & George Kamel

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Episode Overview

This episode centers around the core Ramsey philosophy: consistent, methodical financial planning (‘a proven plan’) always outperforms desperate quick fixes and get-rich-quick schemes. Dave Ramsey and co-host George Kamel respond to callers’ real-world challenges—ranging from retirement investing to addiction-driven financial crises, marital discord over money, tackling outsized debt, and even wrangling a household full of humans and animals. Throughout, the hosts reinforce that financial triumph is built on behavior, not hacks or luck.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Time and Consistency Beat Quick Fixes

• Laurie’s Story (Oregon, 00:51–08:08):
  Laurie, who retired a millionaire alongside her husband by steadily saving, asks whether to keep $500K in CDs at 5% or move to the market. Dave strongly advocates moving the funds to mutual funds for potentially higher returns (12–15%).
  • “If you make 4 or 5% and you could have been making 12 or 15%, that means you’re losing 10% which on 500,000 is… you missed out on 50 grand.” — Dave Ramsey [03:21]
  • Encourages Laurie to enjoy her success (i.e., take her “dream trip” to Australia) because frugality has earned her the right to live “like no one else.”
  • Message for Young Listeners: Laurie’s case exemplifies the payoff of slow, steady, disciplined financial decisions. Quick fixes and government bailouts aren’t the answer.
  • “The difference in this conversation, investing this money versus high yield, will pay for the trip.” — Dave Ramsey [05:10]

2. Real Estate Decisions and the Importance of ‘The Why’

• Jordan’s Dilemma (Washington, 10:43–18:15):
  Jordan, a janitor on ‘baby step’ debt payoff, debates selling his house for a fresh start. Dave guides him:
  • House sales should primarily happen if you can’t afford it or if you "hate the house." Emphasizes aligning on motives with your spouse first: talk about “why” before “how.”
  • “Talk about why until she finally says, I agree with why. Now, how do we do that?” — Dave Ramsey [16:41]
  • Stay focused on financial AND family goals, not just “the math.”

3. The Danger of Chasing Highs: Gambling Addiction as a Money Pit

• James’ Crisis (Atlantic City, 22:09–31:41):
  James, 25, newly addicted to casino gambling, lost $45–55K in weeks.

  • Dave’s ‘three-step plan’:

    1. Immediately join Gamblers Anonymous.
    2. Seek a therapist/coach.
    3. Find positive community roots (e.g., church).

  • If the addiction can't be managed, consider leaving the gambling-adjacent environment.

  • The hosts stress breaking the “scarcity brain” loop (referencing Michael Easter’s book, Scarcity Brain).

  • “You have all the symptoms anyway of somebody who’s in the throes of that… watching yourself almost an out-of-body experience do life-destroying things and still do them anyway. That’s the sign of an addict, right?” — Dave Ramsey [23:36]

4. Untangled Money Messes Are Often Tied to Relationships

• Stacy’s Car/Money/Marriage Mess (Texas, 34:15–41:47):
  Stacy is $20K underwater on a new SUV, but the real issue is marital disconnection—her husband makes far more but refuses to combine finances after a temporary separation.
  • Dave identifies the core problem as relationship, not finance:
    • “We have a marriage problem.” — Dave Ramsey [37:55]
  • Encourages marriage counseling over financial quick fixes.
  • Advises against voluntary repossession; instead recommends working toward collaborative solutions or—if necessary—considering divorce/alimony for security.

5. Debt is Defeated by Focused, Coordinated, Intense Effort

• Courtney’s Overwhelming Debt (New York, 44:52–53:04):
  • $200K in student loans, $200K mortgage, $22K car payment, and a household income of $140K.
  • Dave prescribes “shock the system” — both partners working extra jobs, pausing all investing/extensive luxuries, budgeting tightly, and attacking debt with all guns blazing.
  • “The best thing you can do is shock the system. Not to try to do this gradually over 10 years.” — Dave Ramsey [49:51]
  • Emphasizes the power of hope and behavior modification.

6. No Shortcuts for High Earners in Debt

• Dave’s Temptation (Long Island, 54:48–61:20):
  • Household brings in $205K but wants to raid 401k to pay off $35K in credit cards and back taxes.
  • Hosts firmly advocate budgeting and coordinated spousal effort. Do not rob retirement for a quick fix.
  • “Quit trying to find a hack. The hack is in your mirror, dude. You fix the guy in your mirror and that woman standing beside him.” — Dave Ramsey [58:55]

7. Should Wealthy Folks Stop Investing to Pay Off the Mortgage?

• Steven’s Early Retirement Planning (Wisconsin, 61:42–64:32):
  • Steven, 53, multimillionaire with military TSP and mortgage, wonders if he’s being “too intentional.”
  • Dave says: don’t pause retirement contributions (15% rule); if the mortgage payoff stretches from 41 to 49 months to stay balanced, so be it.

8. Process People Are Millionaires: Teachers and Consistency

• Millionaire Teachers & Consistency (76:44–85:33):
  • Dave debunks the myth you need a massive income to become a millionaire.
    • One-third of U.S. millionaires never made over $100K/year.
    • Teacher is a top career in the Ramsey study despite modest earnings.
  • “$100 [invested] per month from age 25 to age 65… $1,176,000. The answer is not the amount. The answer is the consistency.” — Dave Ramsey [77:30]
  • Key insight: Process-driven, steady people win, not high-flyers or dreamers chasing quick money.

9. Relationship, Responsibility, and Chaos: When Money Isn’t the Only Mess

• Nick’s Family & Animal Chaos (California, 87:08–94:49):
  • Nick, overwhelmed by an out-of-control household (11 kids, 9 dogs, 7 cats, a tortoise), faces thousands in fines after two dogs attack a neighbor dog.
  • Dave empathetically but firmly says, “the chaos… is not manageable,” highlighting the importance of both financial and personal responsibility.

10. Rebuilding Trust After Financial Harm

• Kelly’s Path After Gambling Addiction (Canada, 96:37–105:13):
  • Six+ years clean but unsure how to re-combine finances with wife.
  • Dave underscores trust is built “by consistency over time.”
  • Practical suggestion: If not ready to combine finances, do the budget together for 90 days and track the progress.
  • “I am not a gambling addict. I’m a person who used to gamble six and a half years ago and doesn’t anymore.” — Dave Ramsey [98:57] (referencing James Clear’s Atomic Habits)

11. Automotive Decisions: Company Car vs. Reimbursement

• Devin’s Company Car Question (Virginia, 109:05–116:16):
  • $300/month for all-inclusive company car (insurance, gas, maintenance, unlimited miles) or $700/mo in reimbursement to use his own car.
  • Dave: Calculate true out-of-pocket, including depreciation, and decide based on math, not comfort.

12. When Bad Things Pile Up: No Insurance, Car Wrecks, and Getting Back on Track

• Curtis’s Tesla Crisis (Texas, 117:40–122:46):
  • Wrecked uninsured Tesla, $13K repair bill, only $6K saved.
  • Advice: Save up the remainder, repair when funds in place, and sell as soon as possible.
    • “Don’t drive $26,000 car with no insurance when you’re broke.” — Dave Ramsey [119:16]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Building Wealth:
  • “You can’t wait on the government to tax billionaires to make you rich. That’s called socialism. It’s never made anyone rich except the people running the place.” — Dave Ramsey [06:23]
• On Marital Finances:
  • “We don’t have a money problem, we have a marriage problem.” — Dave Ramsey [37:55]
• On Addictions:
  • “Anytime you’re in an addictive feedback loop, the addict’s mind says, the only fun thing is when I’m doing the addiction. And so everything else is boring.” — Dave Ramsey [27:17]
• On the Value of Consistency:
  • “Process-driven people. That’s the reason these teachers do so well, is they’re process people.” — Dave Ramsey [85:19]
• On Facing the Core Issue:
  • “98% is your marriage. 2% is your car.” — Dave Ramsey [41:47]
• On 'Quick-Fix Hacks':
  • “Quit trying to find a hack. The hack is in your mirror, dude.” — Dave Ramsey [58:55]
• On Living Differently:
  • “You live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else.” — Dave Ramsey [61:20]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [00:51] Laurie’s retirement savings/CDs question
• [02:15] “God’s and grandma’s ways of handling money”
• [04:36] “You have to take the Australia trip”—enjoying wealth after discipline
• [10:43] Jordan: baby steps, selling house, family dynamics
• [22:09] James: Gambling addiction, practical steps
• [34:15] Stacy: Car underwater, deeper marriage issues
• [44:52] Courtney: “Unpayable” debts, big income opportunity
• [54:48] Dave: Should high earners raid 401k to pay off smaller debt? No!
• [61:42] Steven: Retirement, mortgage payoff, intensity or balance?
• [76:44] Adam’s question on teachers as millionaires; process and consistency
• [87:08] Nick: Animals, chaos, responsibility
• [96:37] Kelly: Rebuilding trust after addiction in marriage
• [109:05] Devin: Take the company car or the mileage reimbursement?
• [117:40] Curtis: No-insurance Tesla crash, repair, and lessons

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Conclusion

This episode is a masterclass in Ramsey principles: Why time and systems beat shortcuts, how behavior change matters more than mere math, and how deeply money questions are threaded into our emotional and relational lives. The hosts’ direct, compassionate, and sometimes humorous guidance brings hope and challenge—reminding listeners that building wealth is possible for anyone, but only with a proven plan, not a quick fix.

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Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. George Camel, number one best selling author, host of the George Camel Show, a big hit on Ramsey Network, YouTube. Be sure and check him out. He's my co host. Triple 882-55-5225 is the number here. Laurie is in Oregon. Hi Laurie, how are you?

[Caller]

I am doing very well, thank you. And thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

Well, question. My husband's 71 and he owns his own business and still working and he probably always will. I'm 69 and I retired about four years ago after 30 years with a local government agency. And I receive a small pension in Social Security. We have about 500k in savings which would be CDs and high interest, just savings accounts. And we have about 700k in our retirement funds. And we own our own home which is worth about 400k.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Look at you, retiring a millionaire.

[Caller]

I am so proud of both of us.

[Dave Ramsey]

You did really well. I assume you started with nothing and you did not inherit this.

[Caller]

That's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you.

[Caller]

I only had come across you in the last year. But the amazing thing was I grew up mostly with my grandma who had exactly the same advice as you. So I followed her advice and found that you gave the same exact advice.

[Dave Ramsey]

God's and grandma's ways of handling money. It's called common sense.

[Caller]

You know, I think you followed common sense. But we've worked really hard. We have one son who is now an attorney. He worked his way through college and law school. We helped him with what he couldn't quite afford. So he graduated several years ago and he's been an attorney for two years now with no debt. Also, we're very proud of him.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you guys have done a great job. Laurie, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Well, my question is we have the 500,000 in CDs that will be coming due here the end of the year and in the spring we're getting about 5% on those certificates. My question is, should we shift those over to the market?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Caller]

Okay, that's what I was thinking. What should we be keeping in our emergency fund? In our liquid fund, three to six.

[Dave Ramsey]

Months of expenses plus money for anything you're wanting to buy.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're getting ready to buy a car. You're getting ready to go on that trip. You've saved for your whole life. You're getting ready to do something expensive and you need to set aside some money for that. Plus your emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. I want you to, I want you to sit down with a Smartvestor Pro. Go to ramseysolutions.com click on SmartVestor. If you don't have a good advisor and have someone teach you about the kinds of mutual funds you can park this in. And I want you to do it sooner rather than later. I personally was online with my guy this morning moving some money, making sure I got it into the market because I looked up and I had too much sitting like you did in a money market, high yield. And I didn't want to do that because here's the thing. If you make 4 or 5% and you could have been making 12 or 15%, that means you're losing 10% which on 500,000 is. You missed out on 50 grand.

[Caller]

That's what I was looking at also. So the one thing, my dream trip when I turned 70 next year I would like to go to Australia.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need to go. It's a wonderful trip and they're wonderful people. I love the Australians.

[Caller]

I. And I was looking at the expenses. I've never been on a cruise and I've never been quite that far away from home. My question is, can we afford that?

[Dave Ramsey]

You can't afford not to do it. You have to do this. You have done such a wonderful job. Honey. The difference in this conversation, investing this money versus high yield will pay for the trip.

[Caller]

Oh, okay. I didn't think of it that way.

[Dave Ramsey]

I did. I mean, 50 grand is a great trip to Australia. You can stay anywhere, do anything. You can have a private butler with you. Yeah, it'll be great.

[George Kamel]

And it won't cost you, but a percentage of a percentage of your net worth.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have done such a good job. I want you to enjoy your money as well as be generous with your money as well as continuing to be wise with your money. You've just done wonderful. Do not. And I want you to start planning that trip today and look at some of the high end cruise lines. Don't you cheap out on me, girl. Okay? Get the nice stuff. Don't go on the Walmart cruise, okay? I mean we're talking, we're talking the big dog. The big dog here, the Nordstrom cruise or whatever.

[George Kamel]

Dave has graduated over the years and you've done nicer and nicer cruise lines.

[Dave Ramsey]

And nicer and nicer trips. I gotta tell you if you want to travel, well, you travel with me because I'm not going to go that way anyway. I'm not doing it anymore. The hard part is getting into it falls under the heading of life is too short and I'm right behind her in age. So there we go. I mean, we're going to do it.

[George Kamel]

This is the Live like no one Else podcast.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, I mean, if you're 70 and you've got a couple million dollars or million and a half dollars, folks, you're okay, and your house was paid for, you're in great shape. And look at it this way, you might have 10 years of good health, you might have 15, you might have 20 years of good health. But so when someone asks you a question like, should you do this? The answer is, why wouldn't I? You've done it all. You've worked all your life to get here. You lived like no one else, and so now you live like no one else. Why wouldn't I? And I'm hanging on this subject with this caller, George, because I want all of those 23 year olds that are listening and watching us to grasp that this is the payoff. This is how it really works. You can't wait on the government to tax billionaires to make you rich. That's called socialism. It's never made anyone rich except the people running the place. And so what makes people rich is what she did and what her husband did, and there's the payoff, okay? And you don't even have to wait until you're this old to do it. But you know, if you do the stuff we teach, you're going to be right where they are and more. And you get to do this. They are the poster children for hardly children, but poster children for live like no one else. And later you can live and give like no one else. And I was discussing some generosity with a friend of mine this morning that we're talking about doing this kind of outrageous and it's just a lot of fun. George.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, this is the healthy side of yolo. You only live once. This is what you hear from young people. Well, now, Lori, we're going. Lori, you only live once. Use this wealth now. You've done such a great job building it. Now you're in the deaccumulation where you can enjoy some of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

And after you finish with Australia, you need to try New Zealand. It's neat too. So just while you're down there, while you're down there running around upside down, you might as well hang out and make plans to go back the next summer. I don't care. You're going to love it. And again, I. I have gone to all over the world countries that are don't even that. I didn't even know their names when I was growing up. And I find the nicest people everywhere I go. This world is full of wonderful people. There's a lot of great folks out there. I find very few countries that I just go, this place stinks. These people stink. I don't want to go back. There's very few of those, you know, Very.

[George Kamel]

Okay, Rachel, the Internet officially knows too much about all of us.

[Caller]

So much, George. I mean, our names, our addresses, even our relatives names. And what's crazy is even if you opt out, data broker websites can still get your info.

[George Kamel]

Don't like that. And just a year ago, get this, the average person had about 300 pieces of personal data floating around online. Now it's over 600. It has doubled in a year.

[Caller]

You guys. That is so concerning.

[George Kamel]

Because that info then can be used.

[Caller]

In phishing, scams, impersonation, and even harassments. That's why George and I both use and love Delete Me.

[George Kamel]

Yes, Delete Me scrubs your personal info from hundreds of these data broker sites, not just once, but all year long. And there's real privacy experts behind the scenes doing this, not bots. So this is digital hygiene. We all need.

[Caller]

We all need it. And then they will send you a detailed report showing exactly where they found your data and what they removed. And you can even request custom removals if you have something specific you want them to look out for.

[George Kamel]

Exactly. And this is not being paranoid. This is staying protected. And so far, Delete Me has removed my info from 240listings and saved me 94 hours of time it would have taken me to do it.

[Caller]

I love it.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you guys, in a world where.

[Caller]

Strangers can google your grandma and get enough info to scam her in just.

[George Kamel]

Two clicks, Delete Me gives you peace of mind. Yes. So go to joindeleteme.com Ramsey for 20% off. And that discount brings their annual plans down to about 9 bucks a month. So go check it out. Joindeleteme.com Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Jordan is in Washington. Hi Jordan, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey, I'm doing great. Glad to be here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good to have you. How can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, so I gotta calm myself down a little bit. I've been listening to the show pretty much nonstop. I'm a janitor, so I have hours and hours and hours listen to podcasts so I've been binging your guys stuff in the last couple of weeks.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah. My main question, we. We are wanting to potentially sell. Sell our house. We're just kind of starting the baby steps, though. So I'm like, really into. I want to pay off for debt. I want to get this emergency fund set up and stuff first. But my wife, you know, it's been really emotional kind of with her. We got four kids at home. She's. She's doing all the homeschooling and kind of trying to take care of everything. And it's not really a house that she wants to be in. So in my mind, I'm very logical, trying to think like, hey, we could do this in like the next two years. But I also see our house value has gone up like $100,000. It's probably worth about three, three or five. We bought it for like 219, and I've got about just under 200,000 dol left on it. And. But the other thing is we've also got a lot of new housing being built in the area. So I'm not quite sure how that's going to affect our housing price. And if that's going to go up in the next few years and if waiting a little while would.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're not building houses in your price range, your house is going to go skyrocketing in the next few years.

[Caller]

Okay. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

The new houses are more. The new houses are more expensive.

[Caller]

Okay. So it's definitely. We can. We can expect a increase.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Caller]

In our. Okay, that's what I was thinking, and that's kind of what I was looking for. And as I've been walking my wife through this and kind of saying like, hey, this is what our budget looks like and this is how much money we've got. We've already stopped their retirement, so I'm bringing in about a thousand, a little extra a month. And then I just started doing doordash on the side.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. How much debt have you got?

[Caller]

We've got about 31,000, about 5,000 in credit card debt. I can have that paid off very easily by the end of the year. And then part of, part of this question also was that I have $26,000 on our siding on our house. Like right when we got in, there was a contractor, door to door person was like, hey, we can do your siding, your windows. And I was like, well, there's a couple holes in the siding. It probably hasn't been replaced in the last 20 years, so sure, let's do that. So I actually wasn't sure if that would qualify as debt that would be paid off in step two or if we should.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your, what's your household income?

[Caller]

I'm making for my janitorial job, about 64,000. I bring out about 4,000amonth just recently since I stopped all the extra payments and stuff. About 4,000amonth. And then.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'd love to see you plow through it. The way we decide if something is real estate debt or if it's baby step two is if the second mortgage, in this case the siding loan, is more than half your annual income. This is right close. So it's kind of on the bubble. So as far as I'm concerned, you could throw it either direction. But I'd prefer if I were you to be clear of it as soon as possible. I mean, if you can clear data at what, two grand a month?

[Caller]

We haven't, we just kind of started messing around with the every dollar budget. I've got the free version. We're just kind of dinking around and I'm thinking that can probably be closer to 1000, maybe 1200. I don't think we could clear the 2000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, you're getting started. I want to aim that way. And you know, if you don't clear it before you sell the house, that's fine. If you want to sell the house, you want to move up in house. That's what you're telling me. Are you sure you can afford that?

[Caller]

Well, actually my wife is wanting to move down to Oregon. So that's another conversation that we're, we're trying to have right now because I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get a completely different twist on what we were talking about. So are the house going to be more expensive, the same or less?

[Caller]

We would probably go down because right now I think our mortgage, we got a 30 year first time home buyers thing. We got PMI.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you're going down in mortgage, there's nothing stopping you from doing it immediately.

[Caller]

Okay, you mean there's nothing stopping me from selling the house?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And moving to Oregon. If you're going down.

[Caller]

I'm sorry, you.

[George Kamel]

Wouldn'T make the same in a janitorial job over there.

[Caller]

Yeah, so I work as a government contractor.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the thing that's stopping you is you have to find a job in Oregon. That's the thing that's stopping you. Okay. So if you had that, if you had that lined up. So I'm going to start looking for that and make her dreams come true because it also is congruent with clearing all these debts because the siding will be paid when you sell the house. You pay off the other thing by Christmas. And so it might be spring, you have found the job, and you put the house on the market and make your move in the spring. So maybe six months.

[Caller]

Okay. That's a lot faster than I was expecting.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, it's. It's all has to do with you having housing that is the same or less price and you having a job.

[George Kamel]

And you'll have, you know, the fees that are associated closing costs, realtor fees. Plus you're going to pay down the debt, so you won't have as much to put down on the next as you might think. So that might be another piece of the puzzle to solve. That might mean we're going to delay this for six months or a year. It's not going to happen tomorrow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But the other thing is right now, I hear you very excited about doing this stuff, and I'm excited that you're excited. She's at home fighting the bear with four kids. She ain't excited right now.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's been growing on her a little bit, and I think she's been asked to have a budget date for a while.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So talk about where this takes us before you talk about how we get there. Talk about why. Before you talk about how. Talk about why until she finally says, I agree with why. Now, how do we do that? And then we start talking about what the sacrifices look like to get to the winning, to go across the finishing line.

[George Kamel]

It's a dream date. So we get the why, and then we go, okay, what must be true. Now let's reverse engineer it to figure out how we get there. Well, I need a job making this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Much, but I mean, I do stuff like he's doing, and that is, I find something and I get on it and I go down the rabbit hole and I binge. You know, I'm going to learn everything there is to know about it. And then I've got 73,000 hours invested in this subject. Sun comes and my wife has 73 minutes. And then I expect her to understand what I'm saying and why I'm excited. And so I have to go all the way back to the beginning and say why I got excited about this, and then talk about what it means. But oftentimes if you get excited and you start coming, honey, I got this great plan. We're gonna sell your car. That doesn't work. Okay, that doesn't work. At all.

[George Kamel]

Coming in a little, little strong there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Coming in hot. Coming in hot. Yeah, so. Yeah, that, that's a problem. So Jordan, thank you for being a new listener. Hang on. We will set you up with the EveryDollar Premium version so you and your wife can accomplish these goals. It sounds like you will do it again. It's got to do with a career move as much as anything here. And start working on it. Yeah. You know, you can find something. There's no reason you can't get a good job in today's world. It's. It's very doable.

[George Kamel]

What are your parameters, Dave, for when someone should sell a house in order to pay off debt?

[Dave Ramsey]

If they like the house? Almost never. Because unless the house is like a 50% of your take home pay or something, you can't afford it.

[George Kamel]

So if the mortgage is far too much and there's no.

[Dave Ramsey]

If the mortgage is reasonable and they like the house, usually the house is not the problem. I would prefer to plow through the debt. Now if you're facing bankruptcy because you got so much debt and the sale of the house clears up all that debt and you don't have to file bankruptcy, well obviously you're going to do that. Or if you hate the house, in her case, she hates the house. She's trapped in a small house with four kids, homeschooling and she wants out of dodge. Oh. Add to that, she wants to go to Oregon. Ah. So there's a whole other thing, family and all that, the draw with the kids and get back to grandma, all that kind of stuff. So that's all tied in. So this house is not something they want. Or at least she wants anyway. He's willing to sit there for a minute if it means if it's the best way but the best. There's no reason to stay in this house. Yeah, they don't like it and they're ready to move to another state and everything else. And so yeah, it's not a bad thing to do.

[George Kamel]

It's part of a bigger plan. You're doing it for the right reasons, not just. Well, because part of it is we see people just sell the house but then no behavior change happens. It's just a get out of jail free card.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. And even if you wanted to sell the house and it has that effect, that's dangerous. Cuz you need to build the muscles and the calluses. Say I'll never, I'll never go back into debt. Yeah, I'll never go. You got to be pissed about this. Stuff or you'll go back in debt cuz it's too prevalent, it's too pervasive. Everybody thinks you're weird when you're dead free because you're not broke anymore like they are.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[George Kamel]

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[Dave Ramsey]

James is in Atlantic City hi James, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing well, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So I have recently moved to Atlantic City maybe about seven months ago, came from a small town, had no casinos, had no access to gambling where I was from. And since then I have picked up a pretty nasty habit of going to casinos. In the past couple of months, I would say less than two months, maybe six weeks or so, I've lost about 45 to $55,000 of my money, basically everything that I have. It started small, started with little bets, $25 here and there's, going out with some of my new friends that I met in town and then all of a sudden before I know it, I was going out alone. Bets went up to 100 bucks a night and then 500 bucks a night and then next thing you know I'm going in 2, 3, 4, $5,000 a night and over the course of maybe a week and a half, I really lost a big chunk and I tried to chase it and then over the past maybe three weeks or so, I've lost everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

James. I'm sorry. How old are you, honey?

[Caller]

Just turned 25.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pretty scary to be this out of control, isn't it?

[Caller]

Yep. What's. What's really kind of scary for me too is I don't. I don't drink, I don't smoke. I don't do anything at all. I live a fully sober life. I don't do anything else. I've never had an addiction to anything. Never use nicotine, nothing. So first real addiction I think I've ever felt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, you're feeling one, there's no question. I mean, you have all the symptoms anyway of somebody who's in the throes of that you. I mean, you're watching yourself almost an out of body experience do life destroying things and still do them anyway. That's the sign of an addict, right?

[Caller]

Yep. And what's really crazy to me is it's like I blackout whenever I go. I don't even. It just feels like I'm not even myself. And then the second I leave the casinos, it feels like I'm kind of back and I realize what I did.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you working?

[Caller]

Yeah, I am.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you earn, sir?

[Caller]

About 120 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doing what?

[Caller]

I own a business.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good, good. All right. Well, if I woke up in your shoes is how we answer questions on this show. George and I are not PhD in counseling like Dr. John DeLoney who's on with us from time to time. But sadly, for 30 years I've dealt with addicts. And because 100% of addicts eventually have financial trou. And so I'm afraid I've gotten to know something about this the hard way just by working with a lot of folks struggling with this. So that's the basis I'm answering the question on. So I'm not telling you I'm a clinical expert. I'm not. I'm just a practical expert because I've dealt with so many people in your situation. So if I woke up in your shoes, what would I do? I would do three things immediately, as soon as you hang up the phone. Okay. One, I would find Gamblers Anonymous in your area and contact them. Ga. It's Alcoholics Anonymous for gamblers. 12 step program. Okay. And they have probably one of the better results of helping people with this than anybody out there. Number two, I would find a coach or a Counselor, A therapist in the area that you can meet with one on one. And you make enough money to afford to meet with someone one on one, and you need to start meeting with them immediately. You are in crisis. Okay. They got to give you language for the way your brain is functioning so you can learn how. Both of those places will help you with that so you can learn how to navigate your way away from this. Okay. Now you move to Atlantic City to open this business.

[Caller]

No, I've been there for here and there with family and kind of been out there. And then I guess you could say yes, technically. But I didn't move there to open it specifically. It just kind of happened that way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What is your business?

[Caller]

It is electronics.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's that mean?

[Caller]

So selling, fixing phones, computers, basically anything.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you don't have success doing those two things. And the third one I'm going to tell you is find a good church in your area and start developing relationships with good men that are not hanging out in casinos. If those three things together, gamblers anonymous, a therapist and a good church, and revitalizing or causing for the first time, your spiritual awakening inside of you, that's going to be part of your healing process. If you can't get those three things together to work, you have to move away from the casinos. I live in Nashville. There's not any here.

[Caller]

A big problem I've been really having recently is like, life has just become not fun anymore, like, daily things, or I don't get the level of excitement that I need from anything.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a false narrative, because what happens is that anytime you're in an addictive feedback loop, the addict's mind says, the only fun thing is when I'm doing the addiction. And so everything else is boring.

[George Kamel]

You're chasing that high, and so you always need the newer, better, crazier high. And that's what happened in your situation. So you're gonna need to replace those habits with other things that are healthier. Do you have any hobbies?

[Caller]

Currently not. Not anymore. I mean, I used to be into sports and backgrounds from. I had a lot of friends, but since I've moved up here, I don't really know many people.

[Dave Ramsey]

You've got to rebuild. You got to rebuild a friend group intentionally as a part of this healing. That is not going to casinos because you do become who you hang around with. You notice that, right?

[Caller]

Definitely. And they push me. I mean, the friends I go with, they bet big money. So it kind of pushes me to, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you feel like a Wimp. When you're dropping 10 and they're dropping a hundred.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or they're dropping a hundred and you're dropping. Or they're dropping a thousand and you're dropping a hundred. Whatever it is. But yeah, you feel like a wimp and the opposite is true. I'm the biggest wimp of all if that's the case, because I can walk through those places and watch other people lose money all day long doesn't bother me a bit. I don't feel pressured at all to join the parade of bodies created by these things. And I'll throw out one other piece of information. James, will you do those three things for me to take care of? James?

[Caller]

Yes. And something I've already done as well is Atlantic City has government funded. Trying to think of a way to phrase this like a, kind of like a ga, almost.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know anything about the inner workings of that or if it's successful, but I'm always suspect when the fox says, oh, to the hen house. Here's how you fix it. You know, it's, it's funded by the gambling people. So, I mean, I'm not saying it's nefarious. I don't think it is. I think it's, it's well meaning. But it's also a reaction to. They had to do something because the PR around the number of lives they're destroying is pretty incredible. And so they had to, well, if you have a gambling problem, dial 1-800-I've got a gambling problem. And they put that after all the FanDuel ads now after FanDuel made about $80 billion a minute off of people just like you. And so it just pisses me off. But yeah, that's a good, that's not a bad move. But it can't be your only move.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. And then on top of that, there might need to be some guardrails around your, your bank accounts and your finances to stop you from doing something. Ration spending a lot of money. That might mean putting limits on your bank account so you can't spend over a certain amount. Or if you have a trusted friend that can keep you accountable, that's going to really help with this. Just to remove you right now, you need more friction stopping you from doing the thing. So as much friction as we can add, removing apps stopping you there. I know there's some apps out there that can help with that as well. As I was looking this up. Gamban bet blocker. There's all kinds of things out there that can. But it's the one. Which one are you actually going to stick with and do.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the question at the bottom line is what's Man Estraday? Scarcity Loop is the book. Yeah. Read Scarcity Loop by Michael Estraday and it's a good book. It's worth reading and any of you that are just interested in this subject. It's a full unpacking of how the feedback loop works in the brain on several different things.

[George Kamel]

Scarcity Brain. Michael Easter.

[Dave Ramsey]

Scarcity Brain. Thank you. I called him yesterday. Sorry, Michael.

[George Kamel]

Familiar?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, Michael Easter. Thank you. I know him and he's been here and been on the show, been on stage with us and I should have known his name. I apologize Michael, but my brain couldn't. Scarcity Brain. But it talks about this idea that we chase what we think is scarce and the gambling addict is. Is the. It's the primary thing that covers and that he gets into in this book. And it's pretty. It's very interesting read. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

The good news is Mike James is young enough that he's going to recover from this and it'll just be a giant stupid tax. Hopefully he looks back on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, Yeah. I lost 50 in one night when I was 21 playing a hand of poker. I didn't know how to play the last time I played.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

That was 45 years ago.

[George Kamel]

That's the hot stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

Once my addiction lasted one night.

[George Kamel]

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[Dave Ramsey]

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free every Dollar trainings. There's new trainings every week this month and they're always hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. George, when's your next one?

[George Kamel]

I think I've got one next week or week after that. And we got Jaden Rachel up in the meantime.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, depending on when baby card show.

[George Kamel]

That's right. I'm on baby watch.

[Dave Ramsey]

There we go. So depending on that, they may have to fill in for you. So we're going to show you how to stick to a budget. And typically people find thousands of dollars around $10,000 worth of margin using every dollar. So you can get out of debt, start building wealth, and you can ask us any question during the live Q and A. And it's really lively. You're going to en it. Sign up for [e-mail] webinar Stacy's in Texas. Hi, Stacy, how are you?

[Caller]

Good, how are you? Thank you so much for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

I have a question about what to do about my car. I am desperate need to get rid of it. The car payment is astronomical and interest rate is astronomical. And I'm trying to decide if I can do like a voluntary repossession. That would be on my credit because I'm about $20,000 upside down.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did you trade negative equity from the other deal into this one?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Because typically a car won't lose that much unless it's a huge expensive car. So. Okay. Well, what kind of car is it?

[Caller]

It's a Hyundai Palisade 2024.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, geez. Okay.

[Caller]

I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And yeah. And. And what do you owe on it?

[Caller]

575 7. 5 7.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you think it's worth 37?

[Caller]

Yes, if that. Why like 34 5.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why?

[Caller]

Because I've had it appraised, I guess you could say it different places to see what I could get for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You went to dealers and asked them what they would give you for it?

[Caller]

Basically, yeah. Well, I also went to, yeah. Two different car lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a wholesale. Okay. That means they're going to buy it at a price that they can make money on it. And so that tells me that if you look this up on kelly blue book kbb.com and look at private sale if you were to sell it to an individual, that price is between wholesale and retail. It's between what a dealer will ask for it versus what a dealer will give for it.

[Caller]

It.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah. So my guess is it was about 42.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's more. Yeah. And I'm thinking maybe like 43 or 45 is what I was getting ready to say. So I'm making that up, but just based on the percentages of what it usually is.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, I'm seeing 41, 44 on here. Just looking them up, what they're actually selling for in the market right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Used.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so that leaves you more like. So if you got 44 or 43 for it, that leaves you more like 13,000 in the hall.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what is your interest rate?

[Caller]

8%.

[Dave Ramsey]

8%. Okay.

[Caller]

I know. It's so bad.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so do you have any money?

[Caller]

Not really.

[Dave Ramsey]

Really?

[Caller]

Not really. Well, what's that really mean?

[Dave Ramsey]

Means you have something you don't want to tell me about. What is it?

[Caller]

No, I mean, I have all kinds of debt. I have all kinds of debt. And I have other. I have other, you know, credit card debt. I have student loan debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much other debt do you have?

[Caller]

About 70,000. I have 10,000 in credit cards, 60,000 in student loan debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And another 10 and something else.

[Caller]

Yeah. Negative equity loans. Well, it's more like an unsecured loan.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And what do you make a year?

[Caller]

60,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you don't have any money, literally?

[Caller]

Well, I mean, I have, like, $2,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. That's what I was asking. That's that. I was hoping you had something. Okay, good.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And. And you're, apparently. The language you're using. You're single.

[Caller]

Actually, I'm. I am married, but my husband doesn't. He has. His finances are not with mine.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And thus we have part of the problem. Yeah, the. So does he have any money?

[Caller]

He has lots of money. All kinds of money. He makes 15,000amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, then we don't have a money problem. We have a marriage problem.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so that's how we're going to solve the car problem. We're going to solve the core problem that caused the car problem. The car problem is a symptom. It's not the problem. The credit card debts and the other loans are a symptom. You're trying to act like you have a rich roommate instead of a husband. Husband. He's trying to act like he has a poor roommate instead of a wife.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

While you Go out here trying to exist and run around doing things that are killing you. He makes plenty of money to have bought a car. This is ridiculous.

[George Kamel]

Is his name on any of the debts?

[Caller]

No, because he had had an affair and he left for a year. So that's why I'm in so much debt, because he left and he didn't pay for anything while he was gone. So I had to get a car, and I didn't have any credit at the time to speak of, so I just got. And that's why my interest rate was so high. And so I just was. It's kind of like desperate measures. And so when he came back.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you had another car at the time, you just upgraded during the time he was gone.

[Caller]

Yeah, because my other car was breaking down. And so he's your heart.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he came back. You let him come back. Tell me about. So how's the overall relationship thing? Are y' all seeing a therapist or how you working through this?

[Caller]

It's very. It's a very shallow relationship. If I try to talk to him about money, he says it's my problem, and I try to ask him about the car, and he's like, you got yourself into it. You have to get yourself out of it. So. And there's really no forward progress on any of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

You guys need to be seeing a therapist, and you guys need to be moving towards healing or towards ending this. And then you figure out what you're going to do from this point forward, because this. This is. All of this is the backdrop for some really sad, bad decisions on your part. Because you were desperate, you were scared, you were heartbroken, you weren't thinking clearly, and a car dealer ate your lunch.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so that's the back. But the backdrop is, is that you're actually better than the person who went in there and let that happen. But you were. You were. You were at a weakest moment.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we've got to get rid of the weakest moments, and that's him. So either this marriage starts healing or he's going away.

[Caller]

Yes. Yeah, that's the. That's where we're at.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

But. Yeah. And I just don't know because my card payment is so, so high, and I just don't. I want so badly to get out of debt, and I just cannot.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't want to go out. I don't want to get out of debt bad enough to do a deal with the devil. So he's either coming to the table, we're going to combine our finances. And we're going to dream about living a life together. And that includes him cleaning up the mess that he's partly caused.

[George Kamel]

And he'll have to clean up eventually. I mean, through. Whether it's through a divorce or otherwise.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

This is going to become his problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. How long have you all been married?

[Caller]

12 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Well, I think he's going to discover the Texas law is going to give you some of his 15,000amonth. It's called alimony.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So he's getting ready to learn some things about how things work if this doesn't get fixed. So there's a lot of reason here to fix it. For some reason, he came back. So there's some part of him that wants this to go to get better. But part of it getting better is a holistic healing of your overall relationship. And then that fixes your car problem. If that doesn't happen, then, you know, then. Then you've got a car problem that we don't know what to do with. I will talk about the other parts of it, but I don't want you to. I don't want you to. 2% of this call is your car. 98% is your marriage. Okay?

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that. That makes your life good 10 years from today, not your car being fixed problem. Okay. So that I want you to. I want you to hear me loving you that way. Okay? So the. If you're upside down, you've got three choices. One is pay it down. Two is borrow the difference and sell it from your credit union or from a credit card. And I would rather you have $13,000 in debt than $57,000 in debt and get a hoop d to drive for a while. And yeah, if it breaks down, fix it. Shut up. Okay? That's probably what's going to happen. The second thing that can happen is you just earn enough by working like a crazy person to pay it, get it under control so you can get it sold. And the third thing is a voluntary repo don't do that. For two reasons. One is it trashes your credit. I'm not all about you building your credit, but it trashes it. And two is you lose control of what they sell it for, and they're gonna sue you for the difference. So they're gonna sell that car for 30 and come after you for $30,000 of a deficit with repo fees and everything on there. Instead, you could be 13,000 in the hole. So a volunteer repo's a really bad plan. I wouldn't voluntary repo ever. I would just make them take it if they're going to take it. Let's face it, health insurance today is more complicated than ever. The system isn't built to help the average person understand and it leaves too many families unprotected. That's why you need my friends at Health Trust Financial. They aren't just brokers. They're trusted health insurance advisors who have been helping families like yours for over 20 years. You don't have to navigate it alone. The experts at Health Trust Financial listen to your needs, work to understand your family situation and budget, then help you choose the health insurance plan that's right for you. That's why they're Ramsey trusted and why we've worked with them for two decades. Look, medical debt is the number one cause of bankruptcy in America today. One hospital visit can wipe out your savings and undo all your hard work. So health insurance isn't optional. It's part of your financial defense plan. Health Trust Financial knows their stuff and they're the only health insurance provider I recommend. So get clear about health insurance plans and get the coverage that's right for you athealthtrust financial.com. welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Number one best selling author Ramsey personality George Camel is my co host. Courtney is New York. Hi Courtney, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi. Good afternoon. I'm well. How are you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So my question today is regarding what is the best way to pay down on my debts? Really? They seem big. They seem huge. They seem like it's nothing that I'm ever going to be able to pay down in my life. The debts that I have and my husband combined. I have my own student loan debt which is around $200,000. We have a house together which is also around 200,000 left that we owe. And I also have a car payment that sits at 20, $22,000. And like I said, it just seems.

[Dave Ramsey]

And who's the doctor or the lawyer?

[Caller]

I'm actually an athletic trainer and my husband is a mechanic.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're an athletic trainer, a personal trainer?

[Caller]

No, not quite. A little bit different, but more like a physical therapist that works with sports teams. Sports teams? Yeah, Emergency care, emergency response.

[Dave Ramsey]

And. And you paid $200,000 for that degree?

[Caller]

Yes, I did.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you, what do you earn?

[Caller]

I earn 76,000 a year before investments and taxes before investments come out, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And your husband, your husband makes what as a mechanic.

[Caller]

As a mechanic, yep. He makes around 66,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. And so we're dealing with $140,000 worth of income and $200,000 house, 22,000, our car.

[George Kamel]

You said he has debt, too.

[Caller]

He doesn't. The only. The only debt he has really, is the house that we have together. No other.

[Dave Ramsey]

Car, student loans, and your mortgage.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And what part of New York are you in? I've just got New York on my screen.

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm actually north of Syracuse.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Okay, cool. All right. Thank God you didn't tell me. Manhattan. Okay.

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

So good. So you got a good income.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so do you have opportunity to do some side hustles using your degree, your. Your field, like personal training and other things?

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How much can you add to your income if you turn that up?

[Caller]

If I were to. I mean, at one point, right out of college, I was doing an extra 20 hours a week, and I could bring in an extra 1500.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Not a little bit more.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. So you could bring in 1500 a week?

[Caller]

Yes. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Which is $6,000 a month, which is almost what you make now.

[Caller]

Right, so doubling my income.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And your husband obviously can do some side stuff.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

How many kids do you have?

[Caller]

We don't. We have a dog.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, great.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Bad news for the dog. Nobody's going to be home for a while.

[George Kamel]

Leave some food and toys out.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the bad news is you've got this hole. The good news is you're trying to shovel it with a shovel half the size that you've owned. You have another shovel the same size in the closet. And so you're going to. Both of you have the ability to double your household income for a short period of time and use that to clean the mess up. I mean, if we start throwing $100,000 a year at debt, I think your debt's going to go away. Don't you?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that just means that for the next two years, you're going to work all the time and you'll be debt free.

[Caller]

Right. It doesn't seem that simple, but I guess it.

[Dave Ramsey]

It is. There's another part to it, and that part is living on a written budget, a detailed plan that helps you execute t the concept of living on nothing, making a big extra pile of money and throwing everything in the house after we buy some food, some basic food. We're not eating out. We ain't got time to eat out. We're working all the time, and we're not going on vacation. We ain't got time to go on vacation. We're working all the time until we get this mess cleaned up. You've been out of college, what, five years?

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, good guess, Dave. Like you've done this before. And so I don't want you to go another five years and still be sitting here because you didn't address this right. I want you to get after it. Like in your world, your world. The good news about your world is you have been formally trained in systems and processes that create transformation.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's what I'm giving you. So your brain already functions the way we teach. And one of the things, you know, if you have an athlete come in or a doughboy come in with a dad bod off the street, you know that the best thing you can do is to shock the system. Not to try to do this gradually over 10 years.

[Caller]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's what I'm giving you. Shock the system and get it over with. Rip the band aid off. Don't pull it off. One hair at a time.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

And that means all guns are pointed to the debt, which means no investing. We're going to pause all the investments.

[Dave Ramsey]

Stop all investments, stop all anything. 100% focus. Like your freaking life depends on it, on this debt. And that's the formula that we have seen transform people's lives when they buy into that. And the weird thing is the more progress you start making, the more excited you get, the more hope you are. Much like if you were coaching someone and they started dropping weight and they started seeing their bench press go up, they started seeing their endurance on the treadmill go up, they started seeing the results of their hard work, then they lean in even harder. You know, one of the kind I'm talking about. Same thing, same thing's going to happen to you, but it comes from the singular focus. You can't sort of kinda do it. You tried that for five years.

[Caller]

Right. And I think that's where, like my, my husband and I have been really talking about it recently and his thought on it, I. I'm with you on the approach of ripping a band aid off, taking care of it and getting rid of it. I think the way his thought process is that we'll be in debt forever and we're doing okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, he's wrong on both counts. You're not doing okay. Right. And you're not going to be in debt forever. I'm not going to let you. It's silly. Don't live like that. Life's too short sort. That's a hopeless, that's a fatalistic Hopeless thing. I'll always be fat, so I'm going to keep eating donuts.

[Caller]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

It's the same thing. Of course you're always going to be fat because you keep eating donuts. Geez. Come on. You know this is me talking to me now. Okay, a little self counseling here. Yeah, but. Yeah, that's it.

[Caller]

Quickly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's how it works, though. The parallels in your world to our world, because personal finance is 80% behavior, it's 20% head knowledge. So hope, which is the opposite of your husband's statements. He probably has more hope than his negative statements. But hope is one of the equations in transformation, because we have to change behaviors. We don't change behaviors unless we think that they are going to result in a positive result. That's intelligence. So you would never go do the hard work if you didn't think it was going to work. The difference is I'm 100% sure what I'm telling you to do will work if you guys will go do it guns a blazing.

[George Kamel]

The simple part is the math. I mean, you throw six grand a month, the debt, it's gone in 37 months. That's the math of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

The hard part, throw 10 grand at it in 24 months.

[George Kamel]

Exactly. So that would be the game plan. Let's get out of debt in two years instead of, well, I guess we'll just always have a payment in our life. That's no way to live.

[Dave Ramsey]

Come on, let's. Let's set Eeyore out in the backyard and let him graze. If Eeyore is your spirit animal, people, you got trouble. If you want to win with money, you got to make good choices. And that includes where you shop for groceries, which is why I'm excited about Aldi. You'll find everything you need at Aldi, from the same high quality meat and seafood you find behind the butcher counter to fresh organic fruits and vegetables delivered to stores daily. Aldi proves low prices don't mean low quality. No gimmicks, no membership fees, just real savings. Listen, a family of four can save nearly $4,000 a year. Year shopping at Aldi, that's real money back in your pocket. So stop paying more and start shopping at Aldi for the lowest prices of any national grocery chain. Find a store near you today at Aldi US That's a L D I dot US Savings based on regional analysis.

[George Kamel]

Of Aldi versus select competitors.

[Dave Ramsey]

Prices may vary by location, product availability and the market. Market Dave is in Long Island. Hi, Dave. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi, Dave, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

All right, so right now, I. I'm. I'm considering taking money out of my 401k to pay off my total debt. Right now I have a total of $35,020 in total debt. And it's really the credit card that I have that's killing me. Is it 25.27.8% APR on it, which is ridiculous. And it's just. And it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, what is the 35? Give me the breakdown on the 35,000 a day.

[Caller]

Okay. I have 13,003. 23 owed to the federal government from taxes. I have $13,250 owed to Chase. That's the credit card. I have $4,909 owed to my car, and then I have an additional 1138 owed to a T to another TD credit card card.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what do you make sure I make?

[Caller]

My household income is 205,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[George Kamel]

It's a great income.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why do you owe taxes?

[Caller]

So when my wife and I were. My wife and I have been married for nine years. Went through a really rough patch for probably like two to three years. At some point we were separated, and we were just not on the same page. We used to be really, really intense about our budget meetings, and we'll meet every day. We actually paid up. Yes, you were graduates from fpu.

[Dave Ramsey]

Honey, why do you owe taxes?

[Caller]

Oh, the tech. It was. I. I changed my tax. I changed my tax to having. To being single on my. On my taxes. And then when I tried to change it back. You don't have a formal HR department, so they. I was making changes, but it was a glitch in the system that kept reverting back to my. To a single state, so they were.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not being enough withheld. How long have you owed the irs?

[Caller]

Like a year and a half.

[Dave Ramsey]

That interest rate makes a credit card look cheap.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. The great news is you only owed, you know, you make $205,000.

[George Kamel]

So you can clean this up real quickly on your own. But you're. You're telling us you want to go borrow more money to pay off the other debt at the tune of 30, 40% interest, which is effectively what you're doing from robbing the 401k early.

[Caller]

Oh, I thought they were saying that the interest rate was only like 5%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you're talking about borrowing on your 401k, not 400 borrowing. Okay. Borrowing on it. So you're going to try to borrow your way out of debt, you make 205,000. Dude, why don't you just get on a budget and cut it and pay off 35,000 in, like, eight months? I make $200,000.

[Caller]

So the thing is, I'm, like, talking to my wife, and she still wants to keep, like, putting money aside for our daughter. And then her life insurance is also pretty very high. She has a pre existing condition that we didn't find out until we were. Until she was giving birth. So her life insurance is like, around 200amonth. And then, you know, the rent we pay is, like. Is 3,050amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, you're not doing math. Well, you make 205,000. And you said she pays $200 for life insurance, as if that was a problem. That's 2,400. That's 1% of your income. That is not the problem, honey. The problem is you guys are not on a plan. You're not working together, and you're spending like you're in freaking Congress. You got to stop all investments temporarily, and that includes saving for the kids temporarily. And I want you to clean this up in under a year, you make 205,000.

[Caller]

That's true. Yeah, you're absolutely right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I mean, let me help you. 205 minus 35 is 170. 70. Yeah. You still got 170,000 minus taxes to live on. Cry me a river. Seriously, clean this mess up. Quit trying to find a hack. The hack is in your mirror, dude. You fix the guy in your mirror and that woman standing beside him. And the two of us are working together because we want to get out of debt so we can build an emergency fund so we can build our retirement so we can save for our kids, and we can become wealthy and change our family tree. Now we got something to live for. It's time to get dialed in and focused. Y' all just been disorganized and lazy and distracted by the rough patch that you went through. Now it's time to get on the game, man. And the good news is, is that you called the right people that loved you enough to tell you the truth.

[George Kamel]

And the math on this is real simple. When you make this kind of money, I mean, if you guys are bringing home 11 or 12,000, could you throw 4,300 bucks a month at the debt?

[Dave Ramsey]

Debt?

[George Kamel]

Because that's eight months.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're all.

[George Kamel]

The debt's gone. You can still live on, you know, seven, eight grand.

[Dave Ramsey]

3,000 bucks a month is 12 months, and you're Done, man.

[George Kamel]

So I think you can do this even sooner, but you and your wife got to get on the same page. Get on a written budget and go. All right, spit shake. We're going to make this work. We're only going to cover the necessary expenses. Every other dollar is going to go towards this debt. And I would start with that IRS.

[Dave Ramsey]

Debt for a short period of time. You know, start with the IRS and then list the rest of the debts, smallest to largest. Pay minimum payments on everything but the little one and attack the little one. And let me help you with this. The interest rate on $13,000 worth of credit cards when you pay it off in eight or nine months is irrelevant. The amount of math on that, the actual dollars that math creates, is irrelevant. It's not the problem. If you're going to keep the credit card for 15 years, a 27% interest rate is a problem, but we're going to keep it for 15 minutes. You need to cut them all up. A TV credit card.

[Caller]

Come on.

[George Kamel]

Or is that, I don't know, td maybe. TD Bank. Maybe that was it. I couldn't hear it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I thought he bought something off the television.

[George Kamel]

Oh, gosh, I hope not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, like, like Shopping Channel.

[George Kamel]

Still doing that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's what I thought. But, yeah, maybe I misunderstand. I can't. But anyway, anyway, the great news is you have a small amount of debt in ratio to your income, and you can clean this up really quickly once you guys decide that that's what you want to do.

[Caller]

Do.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you wanted to work a different plan, you called the wrong place. Because we're going to get you out of debt so that you can build wealth so that you can change your family tree and be outrageously generous. You live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. Steven's in Wisconsin. Hey, Stephen, what's up?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave, I got to hear from you. How you doing today, sir?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can we help?

[Caller]

You made my day, sir. You made my day. So I'm not sure if I'm being too intentional or if I'm just being intentional. I'm trying to pay off my mortgage, but I have a burgeoning tax problem. 53 years old. I'm 41 months away from paying from us, my wife and I, my partner and I paying off our mortgage. But when we do, that $800,000 tsp that I have right now is going to keep growing, and I don't want to eat a huge tax bill when it Comes to retirement and I don't want to pass this burden onto my kids. Do I think I know the answer. And I know people called to get a swift kick in their pants. Don't worry, Dave. I got thick britches if I need. As quick as it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know you're done, right? How much is in your tsp?

[Caller]

800,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you said that. I'm sorry. My God, son, you're a millionaire. Way to go.

[Caller]

When we also have 1.33 total in retirement. So 800, that's tsp. The rest is all Roth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so 800 is tsp. 500 is in other retirement. Retirement.

[Caller]

Correct, sir, yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

And way to go, dude. How old are you?

[Caller]

53, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you again. You said that. I'm sorry. My God, this is great. Well done. Very well done. A 53 year old multimillionaire. What's the house worth?

[Caller]

So the house is worth. We owe $349,410.97.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you and your wife are in agreement on the level of intensity to pay that off in 41 months, is that what you're saying?

[Caller]

Correct. We are. She is. She's my partner.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is making you think you're too intense?

[Caller]

I. I see that. 800,000. I don't think we're ever going to touch that if we don't have to. We're going to live well. I mean, we make $310,000 a year. A bunch of that is my military.

[Dave Ramsey]

What makes you think you're paying off your house too intense?

[Caller]

Just because I'm giving up one to the other and I don't want to step over dollars to pick up nickels and I feel.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you've stopped adding to the 800?

[Caller]

I have. Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. No, I would not do that. I would continue to put 15% of my income away in retirement in baby step four while we're working on baby step six. And if it takes 49 months to pay off the house instead of 41, whoop deep. Dee, I'm still at the to it.

[Caller]

This show is sponsored by Better Health Help.

[George Kamel]

These days it feels like there is.

[Caller]

So much trendy advice related to everything, mental health and wellness. But how do you know it actually works for you?

[George Kamel]

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[George Kamel]

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[Caller]

Visit betterhelp.com Ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp.

[George Kamel]

H E-L-P.com Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Buying or selling a home is a big deal. There's a lot of drama out there right now and you can cut through the drama. You know how you cut through drama and trauma. Dr. John DeLoney says it all the time. When you're in the middle of drama and trauma, use facts. Facts are your friends. If you want facts on what's really going on in the real estate world, not what your broke brother in law's opinion was because he believes in socialism, he learned from his college professor, but instead you want to know what's really going on in the real estate world, just go to our website. We'll show you ramseysolutions.com market or you can click the link in the show notes and the actual interest rates that are being charged are out there. The actual volume of homes that are listed is out there and the actual median price and the changes in median price of house prices are there. The actual facts are that today We've got a million 102,787 houses on the market in America. That's the actual number of listings today. To put that in perspective, which is the only way that number has any value, you it's the largest inventory of homes for sale since 2019, prior to COVID 19. Hmm. More houses for sale. Oh wait, more people are looking at houses at any time since 2019, there are more buyers than there are inventory. Anytime there's more buyers for something than there is something for sale, it causes prices to go up, not down. And we've seen prices hold steady, steady and slightly increase in the last 12 months. So we're not seeing a housing bubble. We're not seeing a correction that some of you Predicted. And I told you four years ago, three years ago, two years ago and one year ago there wasn't going to be one.

[George Kamel]

It's the slowest crash of all time and I can. It's been six years. When is it coming? It's crash already if you're going to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do it slow mo crash. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. If you keep predicting the end of the world long enough, eventually you'll be right. But that's not good economics.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so I change my prediction every year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. No matter what. Economists and weather forecasters, the only people that can be wrong all the time and still keep their jobs. So yeah, there we go. So if you want to learn more about the facts ramseysolutions.com or click the link in the show notes. We've got the US housing market trends facts, the data for you to look at and that'll help you make better decisions. Kate's in Delaware. Hey Kate, how are you?

[Caller]

Good afternoon, gentlemen.

[Dave Ramsey]

How are you both better than we deserve. How can we help?

[Caller]

I will give you a bit of background. My husband and I have been married for 53 years. He's 79, I'm 74. He has just within the last five months been designated as 100% disabled veteran from his time served in Vietnam.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Caller]

Yeah. So he is receiving now a. Our monthly income normally is 5686 combined our retirement income he is now going to be receipt. Well, is receiving now 5,300 hundred more. That's a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

So now you've got five. Now you got $10,000 a month to work with.

[Caller]

Correct?

[Dave Ramsey]

11, but there we go. Yeah. Wow.

[Caller]

Pretty much, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. How's he doing?

[Caller]

What a blessing. Well, he has Parkinson's, he has coronary artery disease and he has severe dementia.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry honey.

[Caller]

I have been designated his fiduciary and I am designated has since primary care provider. And it's all good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

It's just a different season in our life and we are trying desperately to handle it with dignity and grace and most of all, humor.

[Dave Ramsey]

I hear you. And so what do you get?

[Caller]

What I want to know, Dave, is how do I best put into savings this VA money that's coming into us because it will be have to be used for his long term care eventually. But I need it to be in something that is giving me more than just my stupid savings account which is in now. Do you have immediate access to. Do you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you guys have debt?

[Caller]

I have worked our debt down to eight. A little less than eight. Thousand dollars, which is two credit cards.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wonderful. Okay, first thing. First thing we're gonna do is. First thing we do is pay those off. Second thing we're gonna do is build an emergency fund. Do you have any savings?

[Caller]

I have $23,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

In savings.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right.

[Caller]

So do I take. And that is what I've been putting in from his 5,000 he's getting.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. I want you to take some of that money and pay off the 8,000 as soon as you can. Okay. Not the 23. Maybe the 23, I don't care. But some of the pay in the next couple months. Use these checks to pay off the 8,000 for me. Okay. Now you don't have any credit cards and you cut them up. Okay. Now you just build the savings up as high as you can build it and.

[Caller]

Yeah, because vehicle. Should I have it in Probably a.

[Dave Ramsey]

High yield savings account. And do you guys have a mortgage?

[Caller]

We do. Our mortgage is about. Isn't it? Is230. Our. Our house is worth 850.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

So we do still have a mortgage. My. Our monthly mortgage is 1940.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is there any life insurance that has been added with this military package that he just received?

[Caller]

Interesting you should ask. I just checked into that yesterday. They are offering him whole life.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I'll pass.

[Caller]

At a regular. At a pretty steep monthly.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I think we'll pass.

[Caller]

And I've listened to you long enough to know that that's not where to go.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not the. It's not the military that's offering that. It's a company that's. That milks the military that's offering that. But what I was asking is they're not furnishing him any kind of federal program with a disability that includes life insurance that they pay for.

[Caller]

That is correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I was afraid of that. Okay. All right. So we've got two goals. Okay. Goal number one is we're piling up cash in a high yield savings account to take care of him and his care. Okay. And I want you to keep that in. I want you to keep that in home as long as you can by hiring people to help you in the house using some of this money. That's going to be your least expensive route and your highest quality of care out because you can be the advocate and manage the situation, but don't be afraid to use some of the money to hire somebody to help you. Okay?

[Caller]

That's exactly what the money is for.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Perfect. And then our second goal is you're going to Outlive him. That's statistical. And so then how are we going to set you up later and get rid of this mortgage? And that's our second goal. Okay, so.

[Caller]

And how do I do that?

[Dave Ramsey]

There's not any magic wands on this, but I just want to be thinking towards those things because the best thing I can do is get rid of that mortgage long term, short term. I'm more concerned about you taking care of him and you and using your 11,000amonth because you guys don't spend anywhere near 11,000 to live on.

[Caller]

We spend our monthly expenses, excluding groceries, exchange and gas is 4800.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, with groceries and gas you can, you can make it on your first number and your second number has been going in the bank. That's what you're telling me?

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay.

[Caller]

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's what we're going to do. I'm going to set you up with a Ramsey coach that's been trained by us as our gift, not no cost. Okay. So that somebody can walk with you because you need somebody in your corner. You have been an amazing, amazing 53 year wife. And he served his country and they waited till he was 79 to bless him with a disability that was deserved probably 20 years ago. And so we're gonna take care of y', all. Okay. As best we can. Again, Kate, we don't have any magic wands, but we're gonna set you up with Ramsey coach to do what I can't do on in this setting, which is continue to stay with you. You and make sure that you're cared for and you got all the answers and do the very best we can with this extra money now. Wow. Thank you. Thank you for being who you are. Ms. Kate. Today's Ramsey show question is brought to you by why reference if you've been turned down for refinancing your defaulted private student loans, you're not alone and you're not out of luck. Why refi exists? To give people like you another shot. Go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey. Not in all states.

[George Kamel]

Today's question comes from Adam in New Jersey. Dave frequently mentions that teaching is one of the top occupations of those who achieve millionaire status.

[Dave Ramsey]

Status.

[George Kamel]

I have three children in high school and I want to present teaching as an option for them. My question is how do they become millionaires on a teacher's salary? Great question. So he's referring to our millionaire study we did of over 10,000 millionaires. And we ranked the careers and the first one was engineer, followed by accountant, followed by teacher. This was the third career in there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep. Followed by business executive, followed by law. Your MDs didn't make the top five. They were number six, just as a thing. So the answer is interesting, Adam, you're falling for the classic belief that income creates wealth more. That the only way you become wealthy is have a huge income. And as we studied, George told you that over 10,000 millionaires, 1/3 of them 33%, never made over $100,000. So the secret to becoming a millionaire is apparently not just having a larger income. Now, it doesn't hurt to have a larger income. It's not a bad thing. But it's not the only way to get there. Because one third of America's millionaires did not become millionaires because of high income. And that apparently is the teacher answer. Right? So what does work? What does work is time and consistency. $100 a month, $100 invested from age 25 to age 65 at the S&P 500, which is the average of the stock market rates is $1,176,000. $100 per month from age 25 to age 65. So the secret there is they didn't miss a stinking month for 40 freaking years. And $100 makes you a million. So the answer is not the amount. The answer is the consistency, the steadiness, the predictability, the discipline, the stick with it. Time and consistency, not dollar amount, are the primary indicator. So if you want to be a teacher and you want to start saving at age 55, you're going to have a hard time getting there. You want to be whatever and making under $100,000 a year. And you want to be a millionaire starting at age 55, you're going to have a hard time getting there. But these teachers did not start. Then most of these teachers started teaching straight out of college and they immediately signed up for their retirement programs and started putting money in every month. And it was more than $100 even back then. And they're teaching freaking seventh grade social studies and they put money in every single month. And they have a 30 year career and it's more than $100 and they've got more than a million dollars in there. Oh, and by the way, they got married and their husband or wife was doing the same thing. So it's not about, you know, we always hear these ridiculous people like, you're crazy, that's impossible. Teachers can't, you can't make it out of teachers. I listen. You can get mad about it, but it's data. We didn't make these freaking numbers up. It's not a philosophical argument, you idiot. It's a math thing. You argue with math, you end up looking stupid. And so these people wailing and gnashing of teeth on TikTok that somehow we need to tax the billionaires. What you need to do is get off your own little butt and get out of your mother's basement. That's what you need to do. And then you can go be somebody, honey. That's the difference. And so, so this is how teachers do it. Steady time and consistency. And it's magical. You know, the first time I saw that I was like 21. I was 20, 21 years old.

[George Kamel]

When you saw a compound growth.

[Dave Ramsey]

When I saw that you could have $1,176,000 at $100 a month from age 25. And I was 21. And I thought, I got four years on this. I can do this, I can do this. You know what I did, I did do sounded cool. Instead I went and tried to get rich in real estate and, you know, flipping houses before there was cable TV to tell you how. And I went broke doing trying to get rich quick because I was too stupid to do time inconsistency. But the thing that we did discover, Adam and I think I always. Because I, I was a little bit shocked too when we got the data in. We had several aha moments from the data on this research that we did not see coming. And one of them was teacher is in the top three. Didn't see that coming. I would not have predicted that. So you got engineer, accountant, teacher, business executive, lawyer. We could not figure out what was driving. And MD is not there. They're number six. Medical doctor is number six. Now medical doctors get there generally because they out earn their stupidity. They're not generally good with money. Stereotypically. Okay, okay. There's plenty of them that are good with money, but a lot of docs are just straight up stupid with money. It's not unusual at all. But the other five categories, what we did finally figure it out as we sat and brainstormed through what in the world is happening here? What do they all share in common? They're all process people. Okay. There's one way to build a bridge if you're an engineer, that it doesn't fall down. There's a set of mathematical calculations that span that beam that keep the building from falling in. If you put that size Beam up, it doesn't fall. You. But that size beam up, it does fall. Engineering is not art. It is science. You have to follow the process or people die. You have to follow the process or the building falls down, the bridge falls down. Okay? Accounting. There's not an artistic element to accounting. There's generally accepted accounting principles. You either follow them or you're wrong. It's called gap, okay? In the accounting world, gap. Generally accepted accounting principles. You either do accounting properly or you get the wrong answer. It's a math thing. It's a process. So find the rules and follow the rules. If you're an engineer, find the rules and follow the rules. Process driven. People. If you are an accountant, if you're a teacher, you have a lesson plan. There's a process. You lay out exactly how we're going to handle this classroom. We don't make it up as we go. Mrs. Doubtfire is not your teacher. Teacher. Okay? That's not how this works. Teachers are process people. Now, some of you think they're otherwise. And they're loving and they're kind and they are. The good ones are those things. But they're also driving toward an end result of you actually getting an A on the exam because you freaking learned something while you sat in their classroom. That's what teachers do. They drive a process. They're project driven, and the kid is the project. Okay, Guess what? What if you're a business executive? Same thing. Business acumen demands certain principles be followed. If you're a lawyer, try going before the judge and making up things in the law. The judge will throw you out, maybe put you in jail for contempt. They will sit you down, counselor. Right? There is one way to be in front of a judge. There's one way to do litigation. Follow the law, follow the system. It's a process. And so you submit yourselves in all five of these career paths. You submit yourself to a proven set of truths. The law of gravity is this. If you jump off a building, you hit the sidewalk. And guess what? Personal finance is the same thing. You're either going to live on less than you make or you're going to be broke. You're either going to live on a plan called a budget, or you're going to be broke. You're either going to invest money or you're going to be broke. There's really no options here. Here. And the more you stay out of debt, mathematically, the more money you've got to invest, the steadier you invest, the more money you're going to have over the longer period of time period. It's a process. The stuff we teach is very the baby steps. We don't let you violate the baby steps. Why? It's just like accounting. You don't violate it. It's a process. Follow it. It works. It's called common sense. In our world, we call it a lot of different things. We laugh about it around here, but that's the reason these teachers do so well. Well is they're process people.

[George Kamel]

And they're not trying to flex either. They're not trying to impress anyone. They're trying to survive running a chaotic classroom. So it's that simple. You make 50 grand, invest 15% of that, that's 625amonth. You'll have $4 million from 25 to 65. And that's if you never get a raise.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so if you're half wrong, they only got 2 million and never got a raise because the mean old school board and people don't love teachers. And it's horrible out there in society we pay athletes more than we pay teachers. Oh my God. But keep investing. Many of you listen to the Ramsey show because you're sick and tired of getting nowhere with your money. You work too hard to live paycheck to paycheck with no money in the bank. Bank. But here's the deal. Just listening to the show won't change that. If you want different results, you have to do something different. We've helped millions of people save money, ditch debt and build wealth. And you can too. But you gotta have a game plan. And that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com start now. Take the free quiz and get your free step by step action plan. If you've had it with money stress and are ready to take control of your money for good, go to ramseysolutions.com start now. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. George Camel, number one best selling author, Ramsey personality is my co host. Today Nick is with us in California. Hi Nick, how are you?

[Caller]

Good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Oh, so I've been listening to a lot of your stuff. Went part of a course at a church for you about 10 years ago. Finally started out toward the goal of working the baby steps here. And hurdle number one arose, which was my wife. I didn't really want to participate in that. And so I've been doing it somewhat alone and I've worked baby step one and two and started into baby step three. And each time I get My, my emergency fund built up, crisis ensues. And a lot of the crisis really isn't crisis at all. By definition, it's self inflicted because one of us isn't on board.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that makes sense.

[Caller]

So we have 11 kids, four grown and out of the house. Nine dogs, seven cats and a tortoise. Most of those were kind of brought in against my will by my wife and my kids and. But here we are.

[Dave Ramsey]

How many dogs? Dogs. Nine dogs with 11 kids and a.

[George Kamel]

Tortoise and seven cats.

[Caller]

And seven cats, yeah.

[George Kamel]

What circle of hell have you created? How do they even coexist?

[Caller]

That's right.

[George Kamel]

What is your house?

[Dave Ramsey]

The only, the only one that's got a chance is the tortoise.

[Caller]

Right. Because it sleeps for six months out of the year. I mean, wow. That one has the easy, easy life.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is this real? Are you punking us?

[Caller]

No, no, this is real.

[George Kamel]

So your wife started a petting zoo just for the family. Everyone's got their own animal. That's good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Everybody's got two.

[Caller]

Yeah. Plus we have some alternates. Absolutely.

[George Kamel]

And you have 11 children. Children like humans?

[Caller]

Human beings. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Caller]

Four are grown and out of the house. So we're down to, down to seven in the house now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Seven, nine. Seven and one. I got you. Okay.

[Caller]

Yep, yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how can we help today? Pray today.

[Caller]

So recently two of my dogs were incarcerated for biting a neighbor dog. And. Yeah, I know. And you know, my knee jerk reaction was to surrender the dogs, which is an awful outcome because they're probably going to be euthanized. And it's not because I don't love them. It's because in the end of the day, I knew this was going to be an expensive endeavor. We are now to where we know what that, what that endeavor looks like. And it's about $4,500.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the dogs are in a pound because they bit the neighbor dog and they want $4,500 to get them out.

[George Kamel]

Is this bail?

[Caller]

Kind of. So about 2,000 of it is fees. But they also want this, this very elaborate housing situation with concrete and attachments and roofs and all of this stuff. So that, that part of the endeavor be about 2,500 of those dollars.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or they will not release the dogs out on parole if you don't, if you don't build them a proper home to suit the dictates of the county in California.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Kamel]

So you're going to get them out of prison to create your own prison in your backyard for them to live.

[Dave Ramsey]

Living.

[Caller]

Ironic, right?

[George Kamel]

This doesn't sound like a good life either way. And is there a chance they'll. They'll bite again?

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah. Well, wouldn't you if you were in that situation?

[Caller]

I mean, I want to go bite the neighbor's dog myself now at this.

[George Kamel]

Point, but man, I would move if I was your neighbor. I don't know if I could live next to a petting zoo. That's a lot of barking.

[Caller]

Yeah. And the problem is that at this point, they don't have to bite the neighbor's dog. All they have to do is get out and they're gone.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Kamel]

You're wondering, do you have $4,500?

[Caller]

Yes, I do.

[George Kamel]

And you're wondering, should I spend this to solve this problem? Because I would hate to see them potentially get euthanized.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. It's sad that the dogs are caught in the, the whirlwind hurricane that is your alls lives. And so as you said, that you all have created. And so the thing is, I don't mind spending money on something if. Especially my dogs. I love dogs. If I create a sustainable situation. Okay. And if I'm not kidding myself, in other words. So, I mean, there's a thousand percent chance that these dogs are going to have a problem again no matter what you do. And, and that they're going to be taken away. This is not a sustainable environment. Do you agree?

[Caller]

Yes, absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So you're throwing good money after bad at that point. But what you do need, what you do owe those dogs is to create a better environment. You and your wife. Wife. Have to be more responsible about how you're handling all these decisions. And that's just. It's not fair to the animals, it's not fair to your kids, it's not fair to the neighbors. I mean, you've created an environment here that's not, that's not manageable. The chaos with the numbers you gave us, we can joke and say the tortoise is the only one's got a chance, but the tortoise is the only one's got a chance. And so, yeah, this is not a healthy situation. And I think the local authorities are telling you that in so many words with their mandate to you, it sounds very bureaucratic and it sounds like they've overstepped bounds, but it is California, so it wouldn't be shocking or anything for them to be out of control with regulations shock. But you know, there are, I gotta tell you, there's people in rural settings all across America right now listening to this, shaking their Head going. Puppy ain't gonna make it. That's what they're saying. Because no matter where you, what you do with puppy here, puppy's in problem and puppy's gonna cause a problem. And so it's, you know, it's your all's job to maintain control over these situations and you have because you've created an untenable situation. Man. I'm sorry.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

It's also a big liability. I mean, if that dog bits bit a human, well, there's a lawsuit on your hands. That could crush you guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

Heartbreaking. Yeah, man. Yeah. And. Well, I mean, yeah, it's, it's real. Yeah. So I'm. I don't know what to tell you, Nick. I think the, the sad thing is, is that this whole thing is so bizarre and so out of control that the dogs being in the pound is a minor thing compared to all the rest of things you guys got to deal with. That's just. Man, I'm sorry. Sorry for the dogs, but they were put in a situation they couldn't win. Yeah. And, and they, they were put there by you guys because you allowed it and your wife encouraged it. And you guys ought to fix that. You really should. It's not, it's not fair to the humans involved. It's not fair to the animals that are involved. And so. Yeah. What to do with particular puppies, I don't know.

[George Kamel]

But maybe get some clarity on what the next steps would be.

[Dave Ramsey]

Maybe you can find someone to adopt them and take them out to an area where they can thrive if they're.

[George Kamel]

Rehomed on a farm. Somewhere where they're not going to hurt anybody.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. And where they're not put in a situation where they feel like they have to hurt somebody. It changes everything, man. So, wow.

[George Kamel]

Those dogs got to be on edge.

[Caller]

Sa foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey guys, Rachel Cruze here.

[Caller]

And guess what? The 2026 Ramsey goal planner is here. This isn't just another calendar. It's a life changing tool that helps you set clear goals and build habits that actually stick. Get ready for all new monthly content from your favorite Ramsey personalities, Tactical goal tracking tools and upgrades that make this our most durable planner yet. But don't wait. If you order in the first week, you'll get the lowest price at just 35.97. Order Labor Day at ramseysolutions.com store to get the deal.

[Dave Ramsey]

Kelly is with us in Canada. Hi, Kelly, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, Dave. Hi, George. Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey, I. I want to know the best way. I've had my head buried in the sand for a number of years. I want to know the best way to re. Establish trust with my wife after a gambling addiction and recombine our finances after a number of years.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long you been clean?

[Caller]

About six and a half years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, that's, that's substantial. You know, to continue to hold something against you from a decade ago that she's agreed to continue to live with is not logical. So you begin to prove, and you prove yourself. The way you rebuild trust is, Is consistency over time.

[Caller]

Time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You become trustworthy, worthy of trust. And it sounds like you've done that. Is there some other thing you're doing that's giving her, causing her to be insecure?

[Caller]

So I think for the most part, it's just me just not knowing how to approach this. I just kind of started listening to your podcast, got your YouTube channel, all that stuff, kind of binge watching it. And I just, like, I think I'm scared and I just, I think she. I think it's more about how do you initiate this and that. What's the best way? Like. Like, do we just start combining our friends and says now, just, just go into it head on, or do we just do that slowly?

[Dave Ramsey]

So let me ask you this. I think I'm hearing you say, maybe I'm not. Maybe I'm. If I'm reading between the lines incorrectly, tell me because I'm not positive. Okay. It sounds like that you may still be dealing with shame from six and a half years ago.

[Caller]

There's a little bit of that, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that's fair. A little bit would be fair. I deal with a little bit of shame from having lost everything and filed bankruptcy in 1988.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that's, you know, that's real. It's back there, but the further in the rear view mirror it is, the smaller, smaller it is. Agreed.

[Caller]

Agreed.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's, you know, so I don't have the same hesitation 30 years later that I did three days after filing bankruptcy, discussing something and expecting my wife to trust me and just trust my judgment. I'm an idiot, but trust my judgment. Right. You know, and that, that's where we started. And then now from there we've become. We went through a phase where a lot of America was listening to me, but she wasn't. And then we finally. She caught up, you know, but that happens to everybody. But yeah, and that's just fair is what I'm saying. When you make a mistake, I'm thinking of Atomic habits that James Clear wrote, and he talks a lot in there about forming habits. And the way you change a habit is not a forced discipline and gritting your teeth and white knuckling it. It's changing your identity by saying, I am not a gambling addict. I'm a person who used to gamble six and a half years ago and doesn't anymore. I used to be irresponsible with money. I'm not a person that's irresponsible with money anymore. I used to be a person that was overweight and ate outrageous amounts of volumes of food, and now I'm not a person that does that anymore. I'm a person. I'm a fit person now. Now I'm a person who eats reasonable amounts of food now. I'm a person who's responsible with money. And you change your vernacular around it, which kind of is a shame. Dealing with mechanism. I thought that was really interesting. I filtered that through my own experience with the shame of filing bankruptcy. And so that helped me. So anyway, all that to say, a good way to approach a relational conversation of any kind, whether it's at work or your spouse or your kids, is if something's awkward, awkward, or feels weird, just say, this is awkward and it feels weird. I still feel, honey, I still feel a little bit of shame from six and a half years ago. I may be more worried about me than you are at this point, but I'm also learning all this stuff about how important it is that we combine finances. And I don't even know how to ask you to trust in this situation, but I think we ought to talk about. About it because it's weird for me to say it out loud and it makes my stomach hurt to have this conversation. And if you said that, she's probably going to go, I'm not worried about it, let's do it, you know, or she's going to tell you the truth and tell you what's going on and.

[George Kamel]

Maybe say, hey, can you help me brainstorm some ideas of things we could do, some next steps we could take that would help us get back to a place where we do have unity with our finances.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I would not recommend if it was six and a half days ago, not six and a half years ago, that she do combine finances with you. I'd recommend that she manage all the household finances and keep your hands off of money until you've proven that you've broken a gambling addiction.

[Caller]

That's exactly what she did. We did start off with combined finances and she had to.

[Dave Ramsey]

She had to manage them all. Yeah. That's the way you handle an addiction. If you're going to stay together, it's the only way that works. But now I really think. Six and a half years. From a practical standpoint, I'm not a counselor, but I'm fine with you combining finances wholesale. If you've really been dry and you're really responsible in other areas of your life and the fruit of your life, your behaviors make a statement about where your character is. And then I think you should do it now. If you want a way to edge into it, a way to do it is keep everything exactly the way it is, but just start doing a budget together. And every dollar has an assignment, and you can assign the separate accounts, and let's do that for 90 days, and then we're going to combine the accounts, if that works.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's a way to ease into it. I don't know that you need to do that, though. Unless she's resistant.

[Caller]

No, it's more about me, I think.

[George Kamel]

What is the latest conversation been like with her around this? Or has there been nothing for six years?

[Caller]

No, the latest conversation is that. Okay, like, through all the turmoil, we actually separated for about a year, got back together due to financial reasons. We couldn't really afford two separate positions. And then just recently, I just said, hey, do we want to do this for the rest of our lives or do we actually want to separate? And we actually started talking about staying together for the rest of our lives. And. And the finances weren't part of that. So in terms of the finances, though, it's more about. Okay, we just kind of handle our own things separately, but we kind of. But we're not doing, like, proper budgeting, in my opinion.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're losing some synergies, and you're losing some of the oomph. The oomph forward that you could get were you to completely combine them. So I think it's worth talking about and probably worth doing. And I'm gonna recommend you guys just walk head on into it. But I get that there's a tender place, there's scars. And, you know, again, it was a little different scenario, but we lost everything. The water got cut off, the electricity got cut off. There's babies in the house. She would have left, but she didn't have a car. I mean, that's where we were. And so, you know, so when we do anything with money that makes her. That triggers those old wounds. I can see her, the shape of her eyes change I start to see that terror look like two tours in Vietnam. Look, come back over her type of thing and it ain't good.

[George Kamel]

Security gland flares up.

[Dave Ramsey]

We just went somewhere we don't need to go. Let's push pause right here and let's talk this back through again. And let's just wait a minute. We don't have to do anything. And by the way, you understand that there's 83 times that amount of money over here in this other account. So calm down. You know, it's like, okay, okay, okay, I can breathe again. Had a little panic attack there. And the facts, that's normal. I mean, if he did anything that looked like a gambling action, it would activate all that pain in her.

[George Kamel]

So any kind of scheme he comes up with, whether it's. If it's this real estate thing over here, I'm going to.

[Dave Ramsey]

If it sounds like he's playing blackjack, you know, if it sounds like he's throwing the slots, if it sounds like he's playing craps in his, the way he's handling his vernacular, he's not doing that. By the way, everything he said to us was real sober. Very. So his language, he had sobriety language all over him. It was really good. But yeah, that's what you're facing, guys, when you want to rebuild trust. By the way, great book on trust. You're trying to rebuild trust. A lot of relationships working on that for different reasons. Henry Cloud's book called Trust, how to Regain Trust, how to Build trust, how to reclaim trust, all of those kinds of things. And it's excellent, excellent book on that. It's way too easy to put off making a will. And believe me, I've heard every excuse in the book. But not having the time is one excuse we can kick to the curb right now. Because these days most folks can make a legally binding will on their laptop between loads of laundry. If you're wondering if you can make your will online or if you need a lawyer, we have a quiz to help you figure that out in less than five minutes. Just go to Ramseysolutions.com willsquiz ramseysolutions.com willsquiz well, it's here. I'm amazed at how I shouldn't be amazed. It's. It's always one of the prettiest products that we do. One of the best looking products. We do the 2026 Ramsey Gold Planter is here. And this thing is, it's all. We always kind of just turn the creatives loose and let them play in the sandbox. And they do an incredible job building this thing out. It sells out every year. We only print 10 or 15,000 of them and they sell out really, really quickly. It's an expensive item. Usually our stuff is, you know, $20 books or $30 books or something. This is like a $50 item. But we do the pre sale on it starting right now. The 2026 Gold Planner 35.97. For a limited time after Labor Day, it's going to go up. So if you want it now. Now this thing consists of each month starts with a devotional from either Rachel Cruz, Jade Warshaw or John Deloney. You're not in here, right?

[Caller]

No, I don't think so.

[George Kamel]

You can only fit so much in there. You don't want to cram it to be a 500 page goalpost.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're kind of wordy that way. All right, so then each month has a two page thing when it's open to the month and then after that each week has two pages and you go through the week and then you start a new month with a new devotional and it helps you track every single thing in your daily goals. It is extremely well designed. This is many, many years we've been doing this thing and it continues to be a huge seller. So if you have an interest, we'd love to have you again. Go ahead and grab your pre sale before Labor Day because they're going to go way up. It is an expensive product for us to produce. As you can imagine. It's a beast. And it's not only gorgeous, but there's a lot to it. So the Ramsey gold planner for 2026 on sale until lab 35.97. Click the link in the description or go to ramseysolutions.com store. Devin is in Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Devin, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm well, I'm well, thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How can I help?

[Caller]

So I have a kind of unique question here. I work for a company and I've had a lot of success and, you know, making a good income. But I want your opinion on what I should do about a vehicle. So they are offering or, you know, they offered me a vehicle that I essentially have to rent from them. It's $300 a month that they take of my paycheck. So I'm wondering, should I go along with that and, you know, essentially lease this vehicle into perpetuity or should I buy a vehicle?

[Dave Ramsey]

You need the vehicle to do the job.

[Caller]

I do. So I have.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you do?

[Caller]

Cars I'm in sales.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so you're. You have to have like a van to sell the stuff out of or what are we saying?

[Caller]

No, no. You know, it's just a fair amount of driving and you might have to go look at customers sites. It's business to business sales else.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, but you don't. That you don't have to have the car. The vehicle is not particularly equipped. It's just transportation to get to the job.

[Caller]

No, no. Right, yeah. It's just a vehicle.

[Dave Ramsey]

You could drive anything.

[Caller]

You can drive anything on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can drive anything.

[Caller]

It's a Toyota. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Kamel]

Well, they give you the money regardless. They're charging.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're charging him 300 bucks for the use of one of their vehicles.

[George Kamel]

This is a bad deal, man. They should be.

[Dave Ramsey]

What all does it include? Include.

[Caller]

Unlimited fuel. So, you know, I can drive it on vacation. My wife is allowed to drive it. You know, we can use it for. For person like, you know, any kind of person.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're covering all. They're covering all maintenance, tires, fuel, insurance, depreciation, everything.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

And there's no boundaries like a normal lease would have.

[Caller]

Right? Yeah. There's no, you know, limited miles or anything. That's all in writing and drive it. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. That is a benefit because it costs you more than 300 bucks a month to drive a car for an insurance.

[George Kamel]

Because they're covering insurance too. As part of that 300 insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Repairs, tires, fuel loss in value during putting miles on it. It's costing you a lot more than 300 bucks to drive.

[George Kamel]

They're basically subsidizing it and charging you a portion.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, they're losing money on this transaction. No, listen to me. They're losing money on the trans.

[Caller]

Yeah. Is that. It is a small car, right? That's the only car that they offer. And you know, if I, if I did buy my own vehicle, I'd get a slightly larger one for my family. You know, I've got a wife and two kids and one, one that's due here at the end of the week.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you have a car for your family, right?

[Caller]

We do. We have a. We have a paid off board Explorer. Yeah, it's all.

[Dave Ramsey]

Put your family in that miles on it or save up some money and buy a car for your family. Because you only need one car. Because you're getting one car from work. You said you had two cars right now, right?

[Caller]

I do. My other one is kind of a. More of a farm use. It's an old 2004 Toyota. It's of kind. Tacoma.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I mean, you can sell it and the Explorer and use the money piled up to get a better car for the family. Right. Farm use. Are you in farming?

[Caller]

I only. Just as a hobby. I have. I have a few cows and pigs.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You probably need a pickup. Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right.

[Caller]

My only dilemma is that if. If I decline the car, if I turn the car back in, they will pay me 70 cents a mile, up to 7,200 miles a year. So that's, you know, $5,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Which is $400 a month.

[Caller]

Plus that 300 that I would essentially get back in my paycheck.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh. So, yeah, that's true. So there's a $700 swing. Okay, well, the way you do the calculation is this, all right? You figure out what car you would drive and how many miles are you putting on it a year.

[Caller]

You know, with work and personal, altogether, I'd be putting probably close to 18. 18,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. That's not too much, really. I mean, that's about average, actually. So. Yeah. So for 700 bucks a month, how much value can you lose in a car? Because whatever you buy is going down in value, right? So how much is. You buy a $20,000 car and, you know, in four years, it's going to be worth $10,000. So we got to say, all right, 2,500 bucks a year, 200 bucks a month in lost value. That's about what you're going to have. Something like that. Okay. And you pay cash for the car, whatever it is, and it's the minimum car that will get the job done because you're, you know, a little bit bigger maybe, but other than that, it's just reliable. And then can I buy insurance, repairs, tires, and gas for the remaining 500 bucks a month? I don't know if you can or not. Not sure you can. I'm not sure you're going to break even on this, so. But if it doesn't, you know, you're right. There's a $700 swing. So how much? I know you can't drive an expensive car, and I know you can't drive a car with debt. The numbers don't work right. Okay. So whatever you drive, you have to pay cash for. And it's probably 10 to $20,000 car for the numbers to work. And then you've got to run some numbers, do some calculations, and figure out what the repairs are, what the insurance is, and then divide it out and go 700 bucks a month. What I got to work with 7200 bucks a year. Can I operate this vehicle for that? I don't know if you can. Can. I mean, with. With $354 gas. I mean, I don't know if you can or not.

[George Kamel]

I started doing research on cars with the lowest insurance costs, cars with the lowest maintenance, and start from there and see what they're actually going for and.

[Dave Ramsey]

The lowest depreciation, because you're just going.

[George Kamel]

To destroy this car. So you don't want anything that's, you know, brand new that's going to go down in value. I'd get it used where someone else paid the depreciation, and you can maintain it at a reasonable cost if you're going to go that route.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's. The $300 is not a horrible deal. I can promise you that. It's not a horrible deal, but if you want to buy something and go the other route, take the mileage and save the 300, that gives you a $700 swing, as you said. Then, you know, you got to make the numbers work. In 700, if the numbers come out to be a ousand, you're losing 300 bucks a month to drive your own car rather than drive theirs because you want a little bit bigger car. Wouldn't do that. Wouldn't do that. That's like having a car payment. I'll pass.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, I wouldn't combine your personal goals with this. Just see it as utility for work, what makes the most financial sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good point. Very good point.

[Caller]

Sam. Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

Psalm. 119. 114. You're my place of quiet retreat. I wait for your word. Word to renew me. Ronald Reagan said, peace is not the absence of conflict. It is the ability to handle conflict by peaceful means. Ooh, pretty good there. I like that. Curtis is with us in Texas. Hi, Curtis. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Yes, I have a question about my car. I have a $26,000 test Tesla, and I wrecked it. I didn't have insurance, and the 600 is $13,000. I currently have $6,000 saved, and I just don't know what to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does it take to repair the Tesla?

[Caller]

$13,000. And I found another place that said they could do it for $9,000 without fixing the front bumper, but the front bumper don't need to be repaired.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's. Why did the front bumper need to be repaired at the other place.

[Caller]

I got. Because Tesla themselves, they don't. They fix Everything. They don't, they can't just fix one problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So they want to restore you 100. You have a body shop check it. And you had Tesla dealership check it.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, so you can fix it for 9k. And you got 6k. Why were you not carrying insurance, Curtis?

[George Kamel]

Isn't that the law in Tesla, Texas?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, not, not, not. Collision, not collision.

[George Kamel]

You have liability only.

[Caller]

Yes, I only had liability because at the time, at the time, I make a decent amount of money, but at the time I had just got out of jail and I had to pay all that this stuff and I was just getting back on my feet and I. The insurance was the bill that I chose not to pay out.

[Dave Ramsey]

So note to self, don't drive $26,000 car with no insurance.

[Caller]

That's when you're broke.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay, because I mean, obviously killed you, right? I mean, you buy a lot of insurance for this. Nine grand. So what do you make?

[Caller]

I make about $7,000 a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how much was your insurance?

[Caller]

4:50.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Was it a DUI you were in for?

[Caller]

No, it was drug charge. I was. Went to jail for.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so that, that didn't affect your insurance then? That's what I was asking. All right. Okay. All right. So your question is whether to fix the car or not?

[Caller]

Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking about just going to buy a cash car and send that car back, but I don't know how that works, that process work at all.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, that's called, that's called repossession. No, we don't want to do that. What do you owe on The Tesla?

[Caller]

About 24,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. No, you need to fix it, hon. And you're going to scratch up the other $3,000 to do it because you don't have the money right now. Is it drivable?

[Caller]

No, it's not drivable.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you driving?

[Caller]

I'm driving a rental car.

[Dave Ramsey]

When's your wreck it?

[Caller]

I wrecked it about two months ago. So I've been in the runner for about two months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow, that's expensive.

[George Kamel]

And how long is it going to take to repair it? Because I've. I've heard some stories about Tesla's taking a long time to get fixed up.

[Caller]

They said, they said about four weeks.

[George Kamel]

So even when can you start the repair?

[Dave Ramsey]

Now.

[George Kamel]

And pay it in four weeks?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Would you have the other $3,000 to go with your $6,000? So you had nine in four weeks?

[Caller]

Because I have, I have Enough that I don't know if I do take because I get paid monthly for my VA check. I get a housing lounge and also work. And if I take my VA check to add on to it, that will leave some bills not paid.

[George Kamel]

No, you got to pay all your bills first. Yeah, but can you scratch up 3,000 out of the seven you make in the next 30 days?

[Caller]

I think I could.

[George Kamel]

I would make it my life mission to do so and start the repair now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, don't start the repair until you know you're going to have the money. Okay.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you can't. You can't. And you got a car sitting over there. You can't pay the bill that you promised to pay. We don't want to create another problem. Problem. All right. So I want you to have your hands almost on the $3,000. You need $9,000 in your account or very close to being in your account before you start the repair. And then you need to start the repair as soon as possible and then get the repair done, then get the Tesla sold.

[Caller]

Okay, so fix it and then sell the car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, because that gets you out of it. You can't get out of it right now. You're stuck.

[George Kamel]

Now if you didn't fix the front bumper, what do you think?

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not. That's nine. He can fix it for nine.

[George Kamel]

He won't get the front bumper fixed for nine.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. No, he said 13 if he takes it to Tesla nine without the bumper at the other place. So nine fixes it and you got six in the bank, right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what I'm talking about.

[Caller]

Bumper, not really that much damage. Only reason they know that the bumper, the front bumper was hit at all because Tesla got the counterfeit.

[George Kamel]

Okay. I'm just making sure it's not going to decrease the value when you go to slow sell it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now you got to get it sold for 24 so you can get out of it at the end of the story and get your life back. Okay.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then never drive a car without insurance again. When you're broke, it makes you broker. So everything compounds then and you get in a bigger mess. And a bigger mess. Mary's in Jacksonville, Florida. Hi Mary, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing great, Dave. Thanks for, for talking with me today. Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

How can we help?

[Caller]

Pretty big life decision in my mind that I'm hoping to get your input on. I have the opportunity to go from a self employed government contractor to a full time employee with the lead agency that the grant that I work for is supporting. And the big thing that I think is keeping me on the fence is my age. I'm 59. We are on baby step five. Ideally plan to have the house paid off in the next four years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

Yes. Thank you. Thanks to you all.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you making as a contractor?

[Caller]

So my gross is 87 right now annually, which includes a 30% fringe. So that is built into that 87 for me to self incorporate, pay my own taxes, my own insurance, all of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so 87 minus you pay your own expenses.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, gotcha. And so the full time gig, that's not contract, what are they offering?

[Caller]

So 30% less of that. So it's based. My gross would be 60, 63 and change.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and are you, you're not coming out of pocket for that much.

[Caller]

I'm sorry, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You're not. Your fringe is not costing you that 30,000 bucks. 20, 20, $24,000. You're buying your what, your own lot, Your own health insurance, Right?

[Caller]

My own health insurance. I am self funding my own retirement. So I'm putting 20%, about 18,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're gonna be doing that anyway?

[Caller]

I think 15 I can do at the new, at the new gig.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're going to match, they're going to give you some match there, but they're not doing it for you.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

So retirement you got to do anyway. It's, it's, that's not, you're not saving that. That's not a fringe. You're saying, so what's the health insurance cost.

[Caller]

For employee only, they pick that up.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, honey, I mean your current.

[Caller]

Current cost right now it's 600amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're not on your husband's plan now.

[Caller]

He is retired on Medicare.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so 600amonth. So seven grand. All right. And the, what else is the fringe? Half your tax it is 765 tax because you got self employment tax versus they're covering the W2 tax, right?

[Caller]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So 7% would be another 7K. That's 14. All right, what else?

[Caller]

I think the biggest thing is frustration right now with the whole marketplace.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean it's 10. It's a $10,000 pay cut.

[Caller]

Cut. It is a lot of frustration and you are right. And that's why I'm wanting somebody to kind of walk me through this.

[George Kamel]

Math says stay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, math says stay on contract. You know, unless you think that the risk is so high with the frustrating marketplace that it's not that it's not going to be there anyway. So then we're not comparing apples to apples anymore. So I'm a big self employed guy. Sorry. I'm always going to lean that way. Unless there's a math reason not to. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.