The Numbers Don't Lie

Summary

The Ramsey Show – The Numbers Don't Lie (July 29, 2026)

Theme Overview
This episode of The Ramsey Show, hosted by George Kamel and Dr. John Delony, centers on real-life questions about building wealth, overcoming personal finance pitfalls, and living intentionally with money. The hosts tackle complex listener scenarios involving marital budget conflicts, business debt, the lottery, homeownership, and existential questions about purpose and wealth. The tone is energetic, practical, occasionally humorous, and always rooted in Ramsey’s principles of personal responsibility, debt freedom, and intentional living.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Shared Budgeting & Relationship Dynamics

(00:36–09:00)

• Caller Eric shares challenges creating shared ownership in budgeting with his wife, who occasionally overspends due to ingrained habits from her upbringing.
• Dr. Delony highlights the importance of "being a safe person" for open financial conversations:
  • "Are you a safe person that she can come back to and be like, hey, we made this budget, and I'm realizing two weeks into this month we're going to need these other things?" (05:00)
• George Kamel emphasizes flexibility and real-life budgeting, suggesting:
  • Set a dollar threshold for discretionary purchases ("Anything over $50, we need to talk about beforehand." – 06:12).
  • Involve both partners in adjusting the budget as needs arise instead of militantly sticking to unrealistic plans.
• Memorable moment: The team stresses building a life together, making budget meetings enjoyable, and focusing on long-term, honest partnership instead of blame or control.

2. Business Debt & “Broke Mentality” vs. Wealth Mentality

(10:20–19:38)

• Caller Nicholas, a young entrepreneur, is conflicted about paying off a dump truck with cash he's hesitant to deposit fully for tax reasons.
• The hosts recommend:
  • Running business debt-free, growing "at the speed of cash," and facing uncomfortable truths about taxes instead of rationalizing high-interest loans: -"You're going to pay $45,000 on a depreciating asset over seven years to avoid paying $10,000 in taxes. That's just bad math." (16:16 – Delony)
  • Ramsey Principle: Avoid “broke person mentality” (monthly payments, minimums) in favor of the big picture: “How much total, and can I afford it in full?” (18:54)
• Practical tip: “Three to six months emergency fund should be liquid (not invested) so you’re protected against market dips.” (17:00 – Kamel)

3. Avoiding College Debt & Burnout

(24:23–30:48)

• Caller Amberly (21, working and going to college) wants to avoid loans while juggling a tight budget.
• Hosts commend her achievements and walk through the math of tuition, rent, and income.
• Advice: Prioritize affordable school, part-time work, aggressive pursuit of scholarships, and semester payment plans over stress and regret.
• Notable quote: "Just like burnout is not being honest with the reality that you're in. And you're very honest." (29:56 – Delony)

4. First-Time Home Buying Anxiety & FOMO

(32:54–41:57)

• Caller Kayla, 26, feels “behind” living at home and wants to buy a house before 30 despite tough Bay Area prices.
  • Hosts gently debunk the “behind” narrative; note that most peers don’t own homes at her age.
  • “You're behind your self-imposed goals." (34:25 – Kamel)
• They recommend renting or getting a modest apartment to gain independence, then saving aggressively until she can afford a home that doesn’t leave her house-poor.
  • "Getting a side job is not a sustainable path to home ownership." (38:47 – Kamel)
• Key principle: Only buy when 25% or less of take-home income goes to housing—all costs included (mortgage, taxes, insurance, HOA).

5. Balancing Big Career Changes & Family Priorities

(44:08–51:56)

• Caller Mark (dual high-income, no debt except mortgage) worries about slowing down on wealth-building while his wife changes careers and goes to school.
• Hosts affirm: Life plans deserve flexibility and mutual support.
  • "You can flip the whole thing around and say, we worked our butts off for this exact moment when one of us just has to say enough and tap out and go get another..." (47:29 – Delony)
• Actionable wisdom: Both partners’ feelings (Mark's frustration, his wife's burnout relief) are valid and should guide a unified, honest decision.

6. Lottery Wins: The Wealth Builder’s Dilemma

(54:11–59:56)

• Caller Michael, 26, wins $400,000 (net ~$275k after taxes) from a lottery scratch-off.
• Already debt-free, he asks how to use the windfall:
  • Stick to original plans (“Don’t increase your house budget just because you can”), and consider giving generously as a marker of character.
  • "The temptation I would have had at 26 is... I'm gonna buy a $500,000 house." (58:50 – Delony)
  • Hosts stress that skills in money management matter more than windfalls.

7. Tough Love for “Failure to Launch”

(65:36–70:48)

• Parent Jill struggles with her unemployed, post-high-school son.
• Hosts urge responsibility:
  • “The greatest gift he could get, the greatest gift a young man like this could get is responsibility.” (67:19 – Delony)
  • Stop “mom guilt”; set clear consequences for inaction.
  • “He has free rent, free schedule, no responsibilities… he has zero incentive to do anything differently.” (66:43)

8. Big Moves: Should We Leave California?

(70:55–74:18)

• Caller Teddy: Is moving out of California to pursue homeownership and a better family future wise?
  • “You don’t get a pass on math. If you can’t afford the thing, you might need to move.” (71:35 – Kamel)
  • Hosts stress weighing support systems (nearby family vs. lower cost of living), and committing to new community relationships if moving far from home.

9. Breaking the Debt Cycle

(76:49–85:50)

• Caller David and his wife, despite multiple jobs and a mowing side-business, are drowning in $89k in consumer debt plus a heavy mortgage.
  • Delony advises focusing efforts rather than juggling too many side-hustles: “You've got to pick a few things and go, laser focus on them instead of trying to do everything and keep a lifestyle and keep flexibility.” (85:50)
  • Sell the mower and truck, avoid sunk-cost fallacy, and attack debt in the classic “baby steps” order.

10. Existential Wealth: The ‘What’s the Point?’ Dilemma

(86:29–101:42)

• Caller Jeff (38, high-earner, $1M+ in liquid assets, living in his car by choice after a traumatic homeownership/lawsuit spree) wonders if it’s “dumb” to stay frugal/adventurous or if he’s lost purpose.
  • “I think maybe I'm having a midlife crisis, basically.” (89:45 – Jeff)
  • Delony urges him not to surrender to nihilism/rage, but to intentionally create relationships and new meaning beyond “cashing out” (97:08).
  • “Find value in doing this thing called life together. And from that comes a shared sense of purpose, of, oh, I matter. I got to show up here.” (99:02 – Delony)
  • Kamel points Jeff to Ecclesiastes: “Everything is meaningless (temporary)... if everything’s temporary, does nothing matter or does everything matter so much more?” (101:19)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Budgeting Sessions:
  "Your budget should reflect your real life, and it's okay if you need to adjust to get there." (08:38 – Kamel)
• On Entrepreneurship & Debt:
  "Running your business completely debt-free and growing at the speed of cash is the wisest way to actually sustain the business." (14:18 – Kamel)
• On College Savings:
  "We save up for the car first, then we go car shopping." (26:09 – Kamel)
• On Homeownership FOMO:
  "You're not behind anyone. You're behind your own self-imposed goals." (34:25 – Kamel)
• On Purpose and Relationship:
  "Responsibility—who depends on you? Not just romantic relationships. I've got to have other people that count on me and that I count on." (98:39 – Delony)
• On Big Windfalls:
  "If you already know how to manage the money you have, then getting more of it is not going to crush you. No, you can't manage money. And then they get a huge pile of it. Well, now they're really screwed." (59:45 – Kamel)
• On Debt Rationalization:
  "So many people are broke, David. You're asking broke people for advice, you're gonna get broke people answers." (83:22 – Kamel)
• On Wealth Nihilism:
  "Find meaning where you are. That's my plea." (102:03 – Delony)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [00:36–09:00]: Building budgeting habits with a resistant spouse
• [10:20–19:38]: Paying off business debt and tax fears
• [24:23–30:48]: Avoiding student loans in college
• [32:54–41:57]: Young homebuyers and feeling "behind"
• [44:08–51:56]: Spousal burnout and career change
• [54:11–59:56]: Sudden lottery win and temptation
• [65:36–70:48]: Parents, adult children, and ‘failure to launch’
• [70:55–74:18]: Should moving out of California make sense?
• [76:49–85:50]: Debt snowball, side hustles, and financial sacrifice
• [86:29–101:42]: Existential questions, nihilism, and the why behind wealth

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Tone & Final Takeaways

The episode is fast-paced and practical but never shies away from the underlying emotional realities: anxiety, burnout, imposter syndrome, and the existential questions that come with both poverty and wealth.

Key takeaways:

• Budgeting and wealth-building are as much about honest relationships and self-awareness as they are about math.
• You don’t get a pass on math, but you also don’t get a pass on purpose—make sure your financial plan fits your values and brings you joy.
• Be wary of “broke mentality,” but also of purpose drift when wealth is achieved. Relationships, courage, and intentionality matter most.

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For deeper dives, see provided timestamps and notable quotes. This episode is a must-listen for anyone striving not just for wealth, but for peace and meaning.

Transcript

[A]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke, and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel here with Dr. John Deloney taking your calls at 888-25-225. Eric is in San Jose to kick us off. What's going on, Eric? How can we help?

[B]

Hi. Yeah, thanks for taking my call. I just had a question about how to build this idea of kind of a shared ownership of budget building and. And overspending. And just to give a little bit of context, my wife comes from a family that's got kind of poor financial education and behaviors, and she acknowledges this and recognizes this, but we kind of go through the cyclical process over the years of marriage where we'll do really well one month, and then the next month, it just kind of goes off the rails. And, you know, generally, we're doing okay. But I want to find a way to help encourage her in the moments when she's doing well, but also try to keep us on track for the long term so we don't have to keep having the same conversations over and over again.

[C]

What. What are the cause? Why does she choose to go get off track? So I. I hear a guy who's trying to be really respectful of his wife, and I honor that. That's good. But it sounds like y' all have these heartfelt conversations. Y' all join allegiance. You. You get on the same plan, and then a month later, she just is like, I don't care.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I. I don't want to say it's the I don't care part. It's more of just not knowing and keeping being mindful of where we're at.

[C]

But that. That's. That's. Being mindful is a fancy way of saying, I don't care.

[B]

That's. Yeah, that's fair. Right.

[C]

And so it's. It's. It. That's the conversation you have to have because. Because we're past the point of. We're not on the same page. We're past the point of you. You clearly have talked to her about what freedom means and what safety means and your dream for your family, and she's actually agreed with you. And she's also agreed on, like, she knows her story. She knows why these things are wired into her. She's come from bad, like, unwise money. Money habits. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

The only Thing left is I gotta go do the thing. I. I can Google what workout to do all day long.

[A]

It doesn't.

[C]

I gotta go to the gym. Right. And so my question for you is, what. Do you have any idea? Because I don't think it's a matter of you not encouraging her enough or whatever. It. It's just, frankly, it's a maturity. It's. It's integrity. It's her. Her keeping her word. When she says, oh, I don't know, or I did, like, what does she communicate to you? Is the. Is the root problem here?

[B]

I think. I think the problem is that she feels like there's a need. Right. That's not being fulfilled. And whether that's, you know, we needed this grocery item or we needed this household thing to take care of the family, and she. So she fulfills that need without really considering the budget. And I've oftentimes said, you know, that's a. That's an important need, and we can talk about that, but it has to fit within our budget constraints. And if it's not fitting in the month currently, you know, maybe that's something we have to wait for. And that's kind of just always been a hard. So is it a hard thing for her to hear?

[A]

Can you label this in the budget? If it actually is a need for the family? It sounds like she's not buying frivolous things. It's, hey, we needed paper towels, and we didn't factor that into the budget.

[B]

Right.

[A]

What's some examples of things where you guys. She goes off rails, doesn't talk to you about it, and now you're frustrated.

[C]

Yeah. Because I don't think you'd be calling us if it was just, oh, we didn't have any milk, or we didn't have any paper towels.

[B]

No, true, true. I mean, examples are, you know, like, we'll go. The. We have. We do have a budget line item for, like, home needs. Right. Whether it's toilet paper. Toilet paper towels, you know, a new broom, whatever. So it'll be. It'll be things like that that she'll feel like. Like, we need. And we've already used that budgeted money for something else that kind of makes. Doesn't have that conversation and goes out and spends that additional money without having those conversations about, hey, we're over budget, but this is a need.

[A]

She's not checking back in with the budget to see if this actually fits. And that's the part that's frustrating.

[C]

You are more important. She's not sitting you saying, hey, we made this budget. And I realized we're short.

[B]

Right, Right. She's not. Right. Neither is happening, really, in the. In the moment, you know.

[C]

And so the question. Only question you can ask yourself is, are you. Are you a reasonable. And I. I don't mean this in a dramatic way. I mean this in an honest way. Are you a safe person that she can come back to and be like, hey, we made this budget. And I'm realizing two weeks into this month, we. We're going to need these other things. Or I want. These other things are that she can sit down. You're like, oh, sweet. Well, let's get this thing out and see if we can just not go out to eat then. Or we can do this other thing. Or are you the guy that throws the budget down and says, this is what it's going to be this month. This is my militant household. We're going to follow this. And she has that natural like that I have, which is kind of wired in, like, you tell me I can't. Oh, man, I'm probably gonna. Right? So that's the only question you can ask yourself. And if you're a safe person to sit down and. And you're an open and curious person that she can come back to, then the next thing is, man, you gotta dig into the truer conversation, which is you got a wife that kind of doesn't care, and that's a scarier conversation to have, quite honestly.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, to be. It could be a little both. I've come on strong in the past sometimes when, you know, she's made expenses and. And didn't necessarily consult me, and they're. And they're small. So I think it. To your point, it could definitely be a little bit of.

[A]

Then set a dollar amount, say anything over $50, we need to talk about beforehand. So set some boundaries. And if there's areas where she is buying things that are frivolous, let's shut that down. Because I know in my house, if I buy ice cream, I'm gonna eat some ice cream that week. And if I don't have ice cream, I'm not eating ice cream. And so there's a piece of this where you can set your own boundaries and make sure that we're sort of removing things that we know will harm us and adding friction to those areas.

[C]

And also when y' all have that conversation, you go first and you be honest. I recognize I've. I've made this an exercise in militancy, and I say things like, you didn't consult with me. Like, you know what I mean? Which is what weak, overbearing bosses often say to their employees.

[A]

You got to loop me into it, man.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You didn't cc me on this. Like, it's you coming and being honest and saying, hey, I realize I'm not. I'm not a fun person to do life with when it comes to the budget, and I come on too strong, and this is a thing we're doing together. And so I'm gonna work on being more flexible and more honest about, oh, we do need a broom, actually. And that means I'm gonna have to take 30 bucks from my fund line because our house needs a broom more than I need another video game or whatever you're.

[A]

And bring her into that. Bring her into the every dollar budget, where we go, hey, we gotta find somewhere this money needs to come from, because there's a finite amount of income. Do you actually show her the budget? Do you have it? Is it on paper? Is it in your head? Is it in every dollar? How do you do this?

[B]

Yeah, so we have a similar budget tracking program app that we both have access to. It's not every dollar, but.

[A]

That's hurtful, but I'll continue.

[B]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's just what we got used to when we started with. But, yeah, so we both have access to it. And every month, you know, we'll kind of try to sit down and we have that conversation. She doesn't necessarily like those conversations.

[C]

Okay, so I want to paint you a picture of a future where your wife loves sitting down with you to plan the upcoming week. Like, where you're. You're a person. You all are planning laughter together. You're planning fun together. You're putting intimacy on the counter. You're like, you're building a life together.

[A]

Get her favorite drink ready before the meeting.

[C]

Yeah. And part of that is we're going to talk about what expenses we have coming up. And by the way, if you're teeter tottering, one month, it's good. And then one month, you fall off. That usually means you're not giving it the full 90 days to fully, like, create a budget that actually works in reality.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Your budget should reflect your real life, and it's okay if you need to adjust to get there.

[C]

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[A]

Nicholas is in Scranton, Pennsylvania. Up next, what's going on? Nicholas?

[B]

Hey, good afternoon. Thank you so much for taking my call.

[A]

Sure. How can we help?

[B]

So I have a truck I just bought for my business. It's my third truck. I currently owe 55,000 on it and I have a pretty high interest rate. So I was wondering if I could let you guys know where my, all my assets are at and what would be the best way to just pay this off as soon as possible.

[A]

What's the interest rate?

[B]

It's a 13.7%.

[A]

Man, 13. Why is your credit so bad?

[B]

I have a 750 credit score. I'm 23 years old, so I guess it couldn't really do any better than that.

[A]

Interesting. Okay, Are the other trucks paid off?

[B]

Yes, sir, they are.

[A]

Okay. Do you have any other consumer debt?

[B]

I have a zero turn mower, but my payments on that are about 180amonth with 0% interest. So that's. That's not very much for me at all.

[A]

Okay, what's left on the balance of

[B]

the mower or the truck?

[A]

The mower.

[B]

Seven thousand.

[A]

Okay. All right. What's your income from this business? What do you actually take home?

[B]

Well. Right. Well, it all depends on the project. Some weeks I could come home with 10,000 profit. Some weeks I could only come home with 1,000 profit. It all depends on the week.

[C]

What'd you file in your taxes last year?

[B]

Last year was a lot less than what it is this year. Last year was about 68,000 total. I probably. I'm well past that now. And it's only July.

[A]

Okay. So you might clear 100,000?

[B]

I think so. This year? Yes. All right.

[A]

And what assets do you have?

[B]

So currently I have 32,000 in my business checking. I have quite a large amount of cash. And another thing I want to bring up is I have an index fund with about 100,000, and I wanted to see if it was possible to maybe. What would be, like, the best way to pay it off? Because I can't. It's not like it's a deposit. 30,000 into the bank all at once.

[A]

Well, how much do you have in cash? You said you have a large amount in cash?

[B]

Yes, Sir, I have 55,000 in cash,

[A]

which is as much as that's owed on the truck.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

So why don't we just use that?

[B]

I can't deposit all that much in the bank or else I'll get flagged by the irs. They said.

[C]

I was about to tell you, ask you, like, how much are you holding away for quarterly taxes because you're running your own lawn business?

[B]

Yes, sir. So that gets all deducted automatically with the accounting service I have. So they have all those numbers and stuff.

[C]

I'm not worried about the numbers. Where's your retained earnings account?

[B]

In my business checking.

[A]

That's the 32?

[B]

Yes, sir.

[C]

So you've got that. 32 is basically, if you clear 100 grand, you're holding your 30. Whatever 5% that you're gonna have to pay in taxes. That's. That's what that money is for, is not to repair the mower, repair the trucks, pay your guys.

[B]

It's for. It is for everything. It is for everything. So whatever in taxes will also get taken out of that account.

[C]

Okay, George. And I can't sit up here and tell you to continue to run an illegal business where you want to, like, hide cash from the government and not.

[B]

It's not an illegal. I have a legitimate corporation.

[A]

Okay, but you said you couldn't use the 55 cash because you have to report it, which means you're not reporting it as income, is what we're saying. So we can't use that in the equation.

[B]

Okay, I understand. So I was only able to deposit around 10,000. The bank had told me.

[A]

Okay, you're. Because you don't want to report it to the irs.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Because you can deposit more than that. But the bank says, hey, we have to file a report if it's over 10,000.

[B]

Correct? Yes.

[A]

Sorry for confusion Now I understand now. Well, it's a hard question to answer because I would just deposit the money, report the income, and pay my Caesar with a Caesars and then pay the truck off. Problem solved.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The other route is to sell off, you know, enough from your index fund to cover it, knowing that you also have to cover the taxes from the capital gains. It's either short term or long term capital gains, long term, obviously more favorable on the tax side. But this is like we're solving surface level problems right now. There's some deeper issues, like why did we go into debt for all these things? Why is the mower not a big deal? Because here's the Ramsey principle. We believe that running your business completely debt free and growing at the speed of cash is the wisest way to actually sustain the business.

[C]

And the hard part for me is you literally have the cash on hand by four o' clock this afternoon to owe no man a dime.

[A]

It's not like you're paying a million dollars in taxes to the government. I mean, it's your income. It's not that big of a deal.

[B]

Yeah, I understand. Okay. I think I just have to. I don't know what I was worried about.

[A]

I would work with a cpa. Do you have one that you have for the business?

[B]

I do.

[A]

Okay. I would get in touch with them and figure out what are all the taxes owed. I want to do this right. I want to be completely debt free and report all the income and just start clean real quick.

[C]

George, you're better with a calculator than me. Will you figure something up for me? I can try the $55,000 loan over seven years at 13.9%.

[A]

Oh, boy. Now I got to pull up an interest calculator.

[C]

I would love to know math, because here. Here's what I.

[B]

95 grand.

[C]

It was going to be what?

[A]

95 grand is what you'll end up paying if you just make minimum payments.

[D]

Correct.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And that car is. That truck's gonna be worth what, 15 or 20 by then?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, it'll hold a little more value. It's a dump truck.

[C]

Okay, but. But let's do the math. You're avoiding. You're going to pay 13.9 interest. You're going to pay 40,000 extra dollars to not.

[B]

I definitely don't want to do that.

[C]

To not pay ten grand in taxes.

[D]

Gotcha.

[C]

That's. That's just. That's just bad math. Like, you're sitting on 55 grand cash. You're worried about the 30% or the 28% or whatever the government's going to take out of that. And so to avoid that, you're going to pay $45,000 on a deprecia or $40,000 on a depreciating asset over. And it's going to sit around your neck like, like a, like a rock over the next seven years.

[B]

Yeah, I understand.

[A]

And do you have a personal emergency fund for your own life?

[B]

Yeah. Yes.

[A]

Is that separate from all of this or is that part of the 55?

[B]

That's what, that's what my index fund is. That's kind of my.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

What I keep saving into eventually when I get to retirement. I did just open up a Roth last year, so I'm starting with that as well.

[A]

Okay, cool. You're doing a lot of good things. I'll give you another tip. For your emergency fund, it is wise to keep it liquid. Three to six months of expenses liquid, which means not in a brokerage account invested in the stock market because as soon as you have an emergency, the market's going to take a dip 15% and it's going to gut you to try to take that money out. So just keep it in a high yield savings account making three and a half percent and then you can leave the rest invested. But I would take enough out to pay off all of your debts, you get you the emergency fund liquid, and then move on from there to actually invest for the future. Running a completely debt free business. If you hate that life, call us back and you can yell at me. I'm fine with that. But I promise you, you're going to have so much more peace in your life if you simplify and focus on one thing at a time.

[C]

Yeah. If you hate this, here's the deal. In four months you can go take out a personal loan for $55,000 at 13.9% and put that money right back in your checking account. You'll be right in the same spot. Yeah, but I want you to try running a business, running your life and not owing another man a dime. And like George said, give the government their money and move on with your life.

[B]

Gotcha.

[C]

If you, if you had a trillion dollar business and you were moving stuff around or you had a $300 million business and there was some true tax savings you could make with moving stuff around and moving it to this state. Fine. That's great. Good and awesome. You're just not there yet. I'm not there yet. George isn't there yet. We pay our taxes and we get on about our life. And I'll tell you, last year I paid so much in taxes I had to call a buddy. I called a friend and said, I just need to tell one other human how much I'm. I wrote in taxes. And I told him and he got silent and he was like, oh, man. And then he was like, oh, that means you had a good year, though. And I was like, yeah. And he goes, well, okay, then get on your. Like, get over yourself. Like, I shared it with somebody and then I got them about my life. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like there's. There's so much Instagram stuff about how to save on taxes and slap up and flip it and reverse it, buy

[A]

a G wagon and depreciate 100. I'm just. It's exhausting. So, Nicholas, at the beginning of the call, you told me, hey, yeah, I got a mower, but it's 0%. I want you to start thinking bigger about your life. So instead of thinking, how much down, how much per month, which is broke person mentality, think wealthy person mentality, how much? Let the sentence stop there. Not how much in interest and not how much down, not how much in payments, how much total and can I afford it in full? And if the answer is no, then we need to pause. A little bit of delayed gratification, a little bit of patience. That's how you're going to build this business the right way. Because there's going to be a temptation around every corner to scale and grow way too fast. And I don't want you calling back saying, dude, I'm way over leveraged in my business.

[B]

Sa. Foreign.

[A]

I'm all about practical ways to save time and mental energy, especially during the

[D]

summer when life gets busy.

[A]

Between vacations, camps, deliveries, travel plans, online shopping, and trying to keep everyone organized,

[C]

my mental load can get pretty full.

[A]

That's one of the reasons why I love Delete Me. Most people don't realize how many data broker sites have their information online, like old addresses, phone numbers, and even family connections. And that can put you at risk of being a target for spammers and scammers.

[C]

But removing all of it yourself can

[A]

turn into a giant project. That's why Delete Me is amazing, because DeleteMe handles it for you. Their privacy team of experts removes your personal information from hundreds of data broker sites and they keep monitoring it throughout the year. So far, Delete Me has saved me about 90 hours. I would have spent myself removing my information. And honestly, it feels so good knowing that someone is in the background helping me and I don't even have to think about it. So this summer, give yourself a vacation with one less thing to manage, get 20% off annual plans at joins eliteme.com Ramsey that's joins eliteme.com Ramsey. You ever wonder what types of investments Dave does and doesn't use? Well, Dave Ramsey and myself, we're going to show you at Investing Essentials, our two night virtual event happening September 1st and 2nd. It's the only place Dave unpacks his playbook for investing in wealth planning. We're going to cover the basics of investing from mutual funds to real estate, but we're going to go way deeper. All new content on reducing taxes, setting up wills, estate planning, real estate investing, giving yourself permission to spend, and so much more. Tickets start at 199 bucks for two nights, four hours. It's like 50 bucks an hour to get coached by Dave Ramsey. I'll take it. Get yours today. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com events or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

[C]

And for all the naysayers, Dave doesn't really say how he does it. He doesn't really show why the like. Here it is. This is the, this is the opening of the books.

[A]

Dave gets so nerdy that we're like, you sure you want to share the formulas for this, Dave? This is pretty in depth. And he's like, this is what I do well.

[C]

And I think, I think it's, it's, I'll, I'll be generous. It's nobody's fault. They just assume Dave is this old guy ripping from the hip. And I remember one time he was explaining something about the way bond rates interact with interest rates that affects the. And he said something along the lines of. And I kind of, my brain had melted by this point. But he said, all right, so algebra normally goes this way. I'm going to take it into.

[A]

We're gonna go another dimension.

[C]

We're going this way. And I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna say, I trust you. All that to say is for folks who think Dave is just an old boomer who doesn't get it and he's just ripping from the hip. This is a great opportunity to see, oh, there's a ton of method behind the madness. And it's got math to it and it's formulaed out and it's well thought out. And actually you begin to see the magic of the distillation into. I'm going to make this as simple as possible for knuckleheads like me to follow these things called the baby steps. But there's a method to this and here's the playbook.

[A]

And it goes deeper. And we had to convince Dave. People wanted to hear the nerdy stuff because, like, nobody wants to hear this. And the audience was like, I would like to go deeper.

[C]

It's become one of the flagship events now. Everyone wants to say, okay, where's this guy putting his money for real? And why is he putting it there for real?

[A]

And the decision making, the mindset around legacy planning, because he's in that phase. It's really, really good stuff. So join us. And a lot of people ask, hey, what if I can't watch it live? There is a replay as well, so check it out. Ramseysolutions.com events Amberly is in Salt Lake City. What's going on, Amberly? How can we help today?

[D]

Hi, I'm calling for some advice on my situation. I'm 21 years old. I'm headed to college in the fall, and I'm trying to do it the right way. Back when I was in high school, I was able to get 55 college credits and a technical degree in automotive studies.

[B]

Wow.

[D]

I then served a mission for my church and used my savings from my technician job as a cushion when I got back. So I paid for another semester of college and bought a car in cash. I now have my associates and about $2,000 in savings, and now I've transferred to a new college to get my bachelor's in experience, design and management. My question today is how do I avoid debt in college and stick to a budget while feeling like I don't have that much money to work with while in the first place but not wanting to burn out?

[A]

Super simple.

[C]

Yeah. You asked 50 questions there in one. Amberly, I just want to say, hey, I'm really proud of you.

[A]

The fact that you've made it this far debt free, it sounds like, is incredible.

[C]

But not only debt free, but you've also done something that was important to your faith. You've also kept your character about you. You've also got a vision for what you want to do. And like all that, I'm proud of you. Just as a, as an old man talking to a 21 year old. Well done, dude. You're on, on the path.

[A]

So let's look at the math of this. What is this school going to cost you each year and in total?

[C]

Yeah, like, it sounds like you went to a Lexus dealership, you got in the car and you're about to turn out of the parking lot and then you're looking out the window going, how do I Do this debt free. Like, you've already enrolled in a. Right. You've already enrolled in a thing, and now you're asking about the price, George. And I would suggest you're doing that backwards. Like, instead of saying, okay, here's what I got. Here's how much money I have.

[A]

Like, we save up for the car first, then we go car shopping. But we've already went shopping. We picked the car, we signed it, and now we're like, oh, we got to pay for that.

[C]

How do I do this debt free without any stress and without burning. Right. You get what I'm saying?

[D]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, so is this a local in state school?

[D]

It is an in state school. And tuition is going to be $3,500 a semester.

[C]

Nice.

[A]

That's very reasonable.

[C]

That's beyond reasonable.

[A]

Okay, so seven grand a year. Are you living at home?

[D]

No, I am renting.

[A]

Renting. Okay. And are you working part time, full time right now?

[D]

I do have a job. It'll pay about 18 an hour with room to improve about 33 hours a week.

[A]

Fantastic. Okay, and you can still do school while working those 33 hours a week?

[D]

Yes, I'm doing all night classes so that I can still work during the day.

[C]

Amberly, I hope everyone listening, everyone who's over the age of 40 who thinks it's all going away because this young generation, there's a jillion Amberly's out there who are. Amberly, you're giving me hope for my kids, so well done, dude. You're on it.

[A]

How much is your rent?

[D]

$500 a month.

[A]

Wow, this is incredible. Okay, so your gross income for the month, let's call it 2400. You take home 2000. Is that fair?

[D]

Yeah, roughly.

[A]

Okay, great. So 2k a month. Your rent is 500. That leaves us with 1500. Now we still have to cover other bills. So you got to eat. Right. And you have 2000 to your name. We're going to call that your starter emergency fund. And you have no debt. So right now we could sock away a little bit of money each month, right?

[D]

Yes.

[A]

How much do you think you could put away into a savings account if you worked really hard?

[D]

I feel like I could put at least 500.

[A]

Okay, so that's six grand a year right there. That's a good start. But we need to cover seven grand a year just to cover the tuition.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

Right.

[D]

Then I feel like I could make. I could probably do more.

[C]

Or then you've got summer, too.

[A]

There's other levers. Yeah, you can work More in the summer, you could apply for scholarships and grants like, like a mad woman. Make that another part time job. Every weekend I'm gonna apply for five or six different scholarships. And even if you get a couple out of that, that was still a pretty good hourly rate. And so that's the way to do it is go to affordable school. Check. You did that part work, part time, Check. Get scholarships and grants, check. Now you've got an actual system here to cover the gap. So turn it into a little math equation. Know that my income will cover this portion and then get ahead of it. So you know, when is the next bill due and how much is that going to be? Do you know? Is it like September? It's going to be due?

[D]

Yes, I believe so. September.

[A]

So 3500 bucks by September.

[C]

Well, I don't, I don't even mind you getting on a semester payment plan with your college. I'm going to pay you this much per month for this semester. I'm going to pay you this much per month. Usually they'll do it for 50 bucks or 75 bucks. They put you on a semester payment plan and just make 600 bucks a month. Yeah.

[A]

And for a couple of years and you can factor that into your monthly budget. That makes it simpler for you.

[C]

Okay, and Amberly, let's. I want to get to the question beneath the question that you asked. Okay. Can we be honest and say you're 21 years old, you've been working hard since you graduated high school, and you've largely been working. Somebody else has been telling you what to do. And now you're entering into a phase where quote unquote, you're free. And now you got two other knuckleheads saying, well, actually, you got to keep doing, living like this. Pretty, pretty low.

[A]

We're not out of the woods yet.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Like, just like burnout is not being honest with the reality that you're in. And you're very honest. So if you, if you are able to metabolize. I got two more hard years of scratching and clawing ahead of me and I'm going to choose joy at work when I'm doing whatever I'm doing 33 hours a week. And I'm going to, I'm going to find not drudgery, but I'm studying a thing that I actually want to go do in the world. And I'm going to choose to walk into those classes with a smile on my face. Not every day, because not every day is like that, but I'm going to. I'm going to choose gratitude walking into that thing and I'm going to keep a calendar. I know this ends in two years. Man. That, that's going to keep you from that bitterness, that resentment that I just want to break free and do whatever I want, when I want. It's just going to keep you on that path for two more years.

[A]

I'd rather you do this now than the back end where you're trying to make student loan payments while trying to live your new adult life.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

So set up a sinking fund. 600 bucks a month in that thing covers me no matter what you're crushing, Amber. Automate that and you're going to graduate completely debt free, making good money. So proud of you. This is a, this is a success story in my book. I've met plenty of people over the years who had a product that they wanted to sell, a side hustle that they wanted to start, or a business idea they couldn't stop thinking about. But they never took the first step because getting started felt complicated. Shopify makes it much easier. You can build a professional looking online store in no time flat with everything you need already built in. Then when customers are ready to buy, Shopify checkout helps more of them actually complete the purchase. That's important because abandoned carts don't make you money. And when you need help, Sidekick, Shopify's built in AI assistant can help you troubleshoot, answer questions and keep making progress. The point is, you don't have to spend your time figuring out what comes next. You can spend your time getting it done. All you need is the idea. Shopify handles the rest. Start your free trial at shopify.com Ramsey shopify.com Ramsey that's shopify.com Ramsey. Kayla is in San Francisco. Up next, Kayla, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[D]

Hi.

[B]

Hey.

[A]

How can we help?

[D]

Hi, I'm call. So I'm calling because I would love a professional opinion. I'm 23, 6 years old, currently living with my parents and paying rent to them. I desperately want to buy a house and move out. My parents keep telling me to wait for interest rates to drop, but I don't want to. I work full time and I have worked full time since I was 18. I have no debt. I have a pretty good credit score and I'm trying to figure out what the best next steps are for myself. Wow.

[A]

Well, you asked for professional opinion. We can only give you amateur ones, but we'll do our best to guide you. So you said you're desperate. Where is this coming from, do you want out because you don't like your living situation? Are you tired of mom and dad's thumb on you? What's going on?

[D]

Not so much that I just feel like I'm a little bit behind for my age. I mean, I'm gonna be 27 next year, so.

[A]

Oh, my goodness. I didn't do the math. 26 does lead to 27.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

Gosh.

[A]

So you're behind who?

[C]

Medicare is kicking in soon.

[A]

How many 26 year olds do you know in this Bay Area who are homeowners that you're behind?

[D]

Well, I'm less in the Bay Area. I'm more in the Central Valley, so not quite.

[A]

Okay, any 26 year old in California, how many of them own a home?

[D]

Probably not many, but I'm an ambitious 26 year old, so.

[A]

Okay. I just want to make that clear that you're not behind anyone. You're behind your own self imposed goals.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, that helps us just clear the decks right there. So you have a goal to be a homeowner in your 20s. Your parents are saying the interest rates are high, you should wait. And you're saying, I don't want to wait. I just want to go buy a house?

[D]

Pretty much, yeah.

[A]

Okay, how much money do you have saved outside of an emergency fund for this house down payment?

[D]

So I have about 49,000 total checking and savings.

[A]

And that counts your emergency fund, that's kind of all the cash to your name?

[D]

Yeah. Okay, I have 20,000 and a 401k from my last job, but other than that.

[A]

And how much is a house that you would want to buy in your area

[D]

right now? Probably between like 400,000 to 500, 550.

[A]

Okay, and what do you bring home? What is your after tax monthly income? Don't include the 401k and health care, but kind of after the government takes its part, how much would you bring home every month?

[D]

Probably about 36 to 3,800.

[A]

Okay, so our parameter here at Ramsey to avoid you being house poor and avoid you making a regretful decision is 25% of your after tax monthly income going towards housing. That includes the principal, the interest, the property taxes, the insurance, the hoa. Because what happens is, Kayla, you go out and buy a house and you're like, I did it. That house is $2800 of your income out of 3800. Now you are broke.

[D]

Right.

[A]

That's what we want to avoid. So I'm just crunching the numbers here to show you even with 20% down, that's $100,000 down on a 15 year at the going rate, which let's call it 5.8% on a 15 year, you're talking about $4,000 a month for that mortgage. So my question to you is, I love that you have this goal. The math says we can't do it right now.

[D]

Right. And I'm trying to figure out, like, I maybe get a second job because also I don't really want to rent. I feel like renting is, doesn't really make sense, especially with, I mean, that's pretty much half of a mortgage every month too.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But there's also a lot less risk involved with renting. You don't have to cover the H Vac going out. You don't have to cover. You know, you're covering rent. And that's buying you time and patience. And so I'm not saying that to crush the dreams. I'm just showing you the math of it going. I know it stinks to rent. It may be the wisest thing to stay at home for now and keep saving for another year.

[C]

I think you should go out and get your own apartment. And I'm saying this intentionally, not a fancy one, like the least expensive one you could buy that's in a safe location and, and practice. And it sounds so cheesy to say it like this, but practice. The daily expenses. Practice the bills coming every month and they just rely on you and practice. Here's what it call. Here's how much money I'm going to have at the end of every month and practice. I can't go out to eat or I get to go out to eat or whatever. Like it's getting your feet underneath you. You're like an amazing freshman in high school basketball player who's like, dude, I'm just going to skip it all and go, go to the, the go to the draft. And everyone's like, hey, you could play your sophomore year in high school, maybe go to college, get some good coaching there, and then head to the NBA. I, I mean, you're, you're a go getter and you are clearly good at SA. Man 26. I was so underwater with how much I'd spent. That's not you. Like, you're, you're on it, but there's a, there's just several steps to take. But I, I can't, I can't parse how much of this is pent up. How much would you feel unshackled from this obsession with. I got to get a house, I got to buy a house. I'm behind. I'm behind to. I'm 26 and I got a full time job and I have 50 grand

[A]

to my name and I have 50

[C]

grand in my name and it's in cash. And my mom comes down and says, you need to clean your room. Right? Like how much of it is if I just got away from my parents, got my own place, got my own place, settled at in, did my own laundry, made my own meals, went home for Sunday afternoon breakfast or Sunday afternoon lunch, whatever that would help this sense that you're behind because I do think at 26, you're behind because you still live with mom and dad making the kind of money you make, but you're not behind when it comes to home ownership and all that, especially in the area.

[A]

So that will scratch the itch of independence. If you desperately want to get out, go rent. But please, please, please don't go out and buy a house. I don't think you'd even qualify at this point. But even if the bank said, sure, sure, we'll give you a loan, it's going to be $3,000 a month out of your 3, 800. Getting a side job is not a sustainable path to home ownership. You are going to burn out and call us back going, I need to sell this house. It was a mistake.

[C]

And I'll tell you, I bought a fancy house here in town and I just last, like, was it two or three weeks ago now, had to replace the whole central AC unit that passed inspection that was good to go and it just died. And that was super expensive. And if you've burned every bit of cash you have just to walk in the front door, you're in a real, real mess. When the roof needs to be repaired, when the sidewalk's got to get fixed, when the foundation has an issue. And we're just saying this is just part of owning a home and it'll appreciate over time. But man, there can be some acute challenges you have that if you don't have the cash for it. People, George, people beat us up for the 25% thing. It's, it's us trying to say, hey, we care about the fact that life happens.

[A]

We still want you to like invest and go on vacation and enjoy your life and not just have to pay the home payment. That's all you can do with your life. So I hope that helps bring some clarity to it. And I'm going to give you my free home buying course, Kayla. So hang on the line. Our team will make sure you get that link. I hope it gives you some clear next steps at least, because I think right now what you need are just some facts. Because if I give you a goal, Kayla's gonna go get it.

[C]

Yes, you will.

[A]

And I think that's all we need right now. And it's a lot of just emotion and I just want independence at all costs. But I don't think the next move is to buy a house. And just the napkin math scared me looking at that. And that's the reality. So I would not wait until interest rates drop. I think your parents are wrong on that one. You should buy a house when you're financially ready to buy a house. And that's the parameter. A quarter of your after tax monthly income will help you make sure that you're making the right decision.

[C]

And if you're in California, like again, this isn't us being fun ruiners. This is just us caring about you. It's a math problem. And so if we're telling you, hey, get it down to 25% of your take home pay, that means you're gonna have to move into less of a house and you're going to qualify for no question. That also means you're going to have to double and triple and quadruple down on your down payment to bring that total of the house you're buying down.

[A]

Which might mean I got to work on my career and figure out how to make, make six figures in order to make this goal happen.

[C]

Or I gotta ask myself, do I, do I have to live in California? Because there's other places in the Midwest where I can buy the same house for half or a quarter of the cost.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I grew up in Boston and at 20 I moved not because of the cost of living, but part of it was I don't know if I can sustain a life here. Right in, in a high cost.

[C]

Do I want.

[A]

And if homeownership's important to me, I gotta migrate south to where I can get myself a nice little townhome and afford it.

[B]

And that's.

[A]

And that's what I did.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And now I'm on, you know, my fourth home in 13 years just because I followed these principles. But having too much house is one of the worst things you can do for yourself financially because you will not sleep well in that house.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And you'll hit that goal and go. That wasn't the goal. The goal I really wanted was freedom. And this house is actually shackles.

[C]

Yeah, there you go. And Your own house becomes a prison that you lock on the inside. And man, I don't want that for anybody.

[A]

And then the H vac breaks.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

And it's a prison nightmare.

[C]

It's a hot, hot prison.

[A]

Oh, ouchie.

[C]

Thanks for the call.

[A]

Thank you for anybody wanting that free first time home buyer course. We're going to drop a link into the description of this episode. So wherever you're watching, go to the description. We'll drop a link there so you guys can check that out for free. Appreciate the call. Hey guys, it's Rachel Cruze. If you're working the baby steps, every major expense deserves a second look. And healthcare is one of the biggest expenses in most families budgets.

[C]

And that is why I recommend that

[D]

you check out Christian Healthcare Ministries.

[A]

CHM isn't insurance. It's a health cost sharing ministry that means members help pay one another's medical bills. And they've been serving Christians since 1981. CHM programs start at just $115 a month.

[D]

And here's why that matters.

[A]

If you are paying more than you need to for healthcare, that money could

[C]

be going toward paying off debt, building

[A]

your emergency fund or reaching your next financial goal. And your monthly cost isn't based on your medical history or where you live, y'.

[D]

All.

[A]

A lot of families find CHM gives

[C]

them more room in the budget.

[A]

That's why so many members say they're better with CHM. And right now, new members can receive a 50% credit towards their first month of membership. Go to chministries.org budget and use promo code RAMSEY. That's chministries.org budget and promo code Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George camel here with Dr. John Deloney taking your calls. Mark is in Des Moines. Up next. Mark, welcome to the show.

[B]

Hey, thanks for taking my call.

[A]

Absolutely. What's going on?

[B]

So. So my wife and I together, we make about $250,000. That's a combination of her income, my income, and then some VA money we have coming in which we've been skating by. Things have been easy. However, we have no debt other than our mortgage. However, she is burnt out at work and is looking at going back school. Her going back school will be covered by the GI Bill. So I'm not concerned about cash flowing that just try and figure out how to or where to pull back. We've been going like crazy trying to get our house paid off and squirrel away as much money for retirement as Possible. And I'm just kind of worried where I pull back. Do I pay less on the house? Do I invest less money? Do I put less into my kids college funds? Where do I go?

[A]

So you guys are in baby steps four through six. You're out of debt with the emergency fund, you're investing 15% in retirement, you're putting some money away for college and you're putting extra toward the mortgage. And you're saying, hey, if my income goes down to 120, what does this plan look like then?

[B]

Correct.

[A]

What will the income go down to?

[B]

About that. So she makes 125 and she would be going back to school for two years.

[A]

Okay, so new question. Can we live and accomplish all of our goals making 125,000. Have you done the math on that and done a budget based on that to see what sacrifices must be made?

[B]

So looking at it, I do think, I mean, I think we, yeah, it looks like our expenses are about 7,000. And off of the, you know, 125, 130, we're bringing in just shy of nine a month.

[A]

Great. So you still have some margin. You can still put something in college, you can still put something toward the mortgage.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And this is also assuming your income doesn't go up.

[B]

Right.

[A]

With your job. And she's going to be out of school eventually. Right. Working again.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So really we're looking at a temporary dip in income. Can we live off 125 for three years?

[B]

Correct.

[A]

That really helps clear it. And go. Okay, we're not losing this forever. We can make sacrifices for a couple of years for her to go to school. What does she want to do?

[B]

She wants to go more into like the therapy side of things.

[A]

What is she doing now?

[B]

She's medical, so it just be kind of a different specialty.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

My only fear, and John will be perfect to speak to this, is that she goes with her. And if she's burnt out now doing this, who's to say she's not going to get burnt out doing therapy, which is also a very difficult field.

[B]

Right. Yeah.

[C]

I'm trying to hear for the question beneath the question. Do you not, do you not think it's wise for your wife to go back to school?

[B]

I have no problem with her going back. I just, we've been working so hard to try and you know, try and do everything right.

[C]

And I feel what, what makes this step feel like you're not doing something right? Because if you, if you moralize it and make it a right or wrong issue, you can get sideways real fast. If you're trying to solve for. I must get on a track and never get off this track till the end of time. That's. That's a recipe for a pretty rigid life.

[A]

You created sort of your own prison there.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And you locked it on the inside. If you, If. If you're creating a life with somebody, y' all are co creating this thing. And what do we want it to feel like? What do we want to look like? We've been busting our butt. Because you can flip the, like what you've told us. You can flip the whole thing around and say, we worked our butts off for this exact moment when one of us just has to say enough and tap out and go get another. Stop doing boxing and go do jiu jitsu for a while. Like, it's not like we're quitting. It's we're going to retool for another. Another exercise. Right. And so we've done all this for this exact moment. That's. That's what I'm trying to get to the thing beneath the thing here, because it sounds like y' all have worked your butts off. This is a perfect time to go back to school.

[A]

So it's already paid for.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like checking every single box. So I think the hard part for you is you saw the marathon time and went, dude, we're going to make great time. And now that time is going to double. It's going to take a longer time to save for college and to pay off the house. That's the part I think you just need to grieve and go, man, that would have been cool to pay off the house in five years. It's going to take eight now.

[C]

But, you know, it's going to be more awesome than that. Having a wife that loves the skin that she wakes up in every morning, having a wife that's got her spirit back, Having a wife who's, like, engaged in a thing that she really loves, like, that's worth it 100 times out of a hundred, Right?

[B]

Absolutely. I appreciate it.

[A]

And that's the one thing I would make sure she understands is the grass may not be that much greener on the other side. I hope it is. I hope she loves therapy. But I would have her go talk to people who are doing the things she wants to do to get a full picture of it, not just what sounds like relief.

[C]

And mark, when y' all are talking about this, I. I want to. This doesn't get talked about very Often. And so when you're sitting with. With your. With your wife here. Okay, I'm going to use you two as the example, but for everyone listening, your wife has this. This feeling, this emotional set, like this physical, like, I've got to be done with this. And I feel like I want to go back to school. I want to get trained and become a therapist. The world needs more therapists right now. Like, great. Those feelings are real and valid and good. And your feelings of frustration. And I wanted to hit this goal, and we had a deal. And suddenly, like, we were both going to like to use what Georgia said. We were both running this marathon, and then you stepped off the curb and broke your ankle. Your feelings of frustration and annoyance and. Oh, dude, those are real, too. And they're not equally val. Like, one's more. Not more valid than the other. They're both valid. And they both have space on your kitchen table. And so when your wife says, I've got to be done. Here's a great opportunity. We've set ourselves up for this moment. That's true. And you saying, I'm going to be all in 100%. And if I'm going to be fully in this. In this secret world we call our marriage together, just you and me, I also have to be honest about my feelings. I'm frustrated because I really wanted to get out from under this house. Both of those are true, right? So we're not fighting. We're not competing. It's not my feelings versus yours. It is. Both are true. What's the right decision for us moving forward? And the way you've painted it, it sounds like the right decision is to have a whole and healthy wife, to take advantage of this opportunity to have free tuition. And it's not like she's just saying I'm burnt out. I just want to stay at home and stare off into space for the next three years. It is. I'm going to actively be participating in building something because we do have this shared vision of our life. We both still are two independent people who go to our own jobs and work real hard to serve other people. And then we come home and do this thing called life. Like. Like those things all work together, but both of your feelings count. Does that make sense?

[B]

It does.

[C]

I don't want you burying half of yourself just to keep the peace in your house. I want you being honest about what's going on in your heart and mind. And then thing. And because I value us, we're gonna go do this thing or she might Say, okay, what if in two years, what if we cut our spinning to the bone and got this house paid off and then I went and did it. I can suck it up for two more years.

[B]

Right?

[C]

It's, that's, that's how couples make united decisions. When they're both honest and they can both hold space for each other's feelings, however uncomfortable those things are.

[B]

Perfect. I really appreciate it, guys.

[C]

You got it, brother.

[A]

You got your homework.

[B]

So now it's.

[C]

And thanks. Big thanks to both of you for your service.

[A]

Oh, absolutely.

[C]

And not only service in the military, but service in your medical careers. Service to go be a mental health therapist like all that. Like you've dedicated your lives to helping hurting people and I'm grateful for you.

[A]

And it's cool to think they're more present because of the plan they followed.

[C]

That's it. That's it.

[A]

That's what I want from my therapist, from the person you know performing a medical procedure on me.

[C]

I don't want my doctor to owe anybody anything. Yes.

[A]

I'm not saying that you're a bad doctor if you have loans. I'm just saying it's nice to know that you are fully present and focused cuz there's nothing else on your mind stressing you out financially. That's pretty cool.

[D]

Foreign.

[C]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. Summer is a time when people escape, whether it's relaxing or going on vacation. We've all been told this lie that if we could just escape from it all, everything will magically work itself out. But here's the thing. A vacation won't fix what you won't face. If you're anxious, if you're burned out or you're struggling, these problems will be waiting for you when you get home. This is why I recommend talking to somebody. And this is why I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is online therapy that fits into your life. You can talk with a licensed therapist by phone, video or messaging from anywhere. No commuting, no sitting in a waiting room. Just a safe place to process what's actually going on in your life. All of Better Helps therapists follow a strict code of conduct and you can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the app. If it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists anytime for no extra cost. Don't ignore what's coming to the surface. Sometimes the strongest thing you can do is stop trying to escape and start dealing with your challenges. Go to betterhelp.com Ramsey to get 10% off. That's BetterHelp. H E L P.

[A]

Michael is in Indianapolis. Up next. Michael, welcome to the show. How can we help?

[B]

Yeah, great, guys. Thanks for having me. So my wife and I actually won the lottery this past weekend. Like, literally we won. Yeah, we won 400, 000 off a scratch off ticket.

[C]

Nice.

[A]

Was this a goal you guys had? Like, was this a regular kind of habit and you finally hit it?

[B]

Yeah. So no. We were on vacation. I find. Found a five dollar bill on the ground and went and bought a lottery ticket with it. The second time I'd ever played the lottery. And here we are.

[D]

Wow.

[C]

Dude, I've seen this movie.

[B]

Yeah, literally, that's what we've been saying.

[A]

And it's a verified winner.

[B]

Yeah, it went today and actually. And they verified it all and should be paid out in about four weeks.

[C]

What's the payout?

[B]

It's gonna be close to 300. Wow.

[A]

Do you owe taxes after that? Because I know they withhold a forced amount, but you will likely owe taxes on top of that, right?

[B]

Yeah. So they. They think it's estimated to be around 275 is what we'll see at the end of everything. But we're working with a CPA and financial advisor to hopefully figure out all those details so we don't make any mistakes.

[A]

Oh, good. So what do you need us for?

[C]

Real quick, Michael, I gotta ask you this, a personal question. Okay. Just you and me and a couple million people listening. Okay, here's how I think I would handle this. If I got a scratch off ticket, let's say for 400 grand, and then I took the cash out option, and then there was the taxes. If. If I scratched this thing and it said, you won $400,000. And my take home, what deposited in My account was 275. My first impulse, and I'm embarrassed to say this would be like, oh, man, you know what I mean? My first. I would first be like, oh, dude, I lost $125,000 even though I just got 275 out of nowhere. Right. Is that how you feel? Are you a better person than me?

[D]

To be honest?

[B]

We're like, ecstatic about it. Cause we were hoping to buy a $250,000 house in the next five years. And so all this as like a literal gift from God. Like, hey, here's your house five years early.

[D]

Wow.

[C]

There's somebody just stumbling around right now wondering where their $5 bill is. I hope you're happy, Michael.

[A]

Dang it.

[C]

I'm just kidding. All right. You're a better person than me. All right, get to George.

[A]

You got a CPA and a SmartVestor. So they're going to handle the tax stuff and investing. If you're going to do any of that, the question is where are you at in the baby steps? From a scale of we got consumer debt to we are investing 15% and saving for our kids college.

[B]

Yeah, it's, that's why I'm calling you. So we obviously want to buy a house, but we've been paying off our debt. We actually just became debt free 3 months ago. We paid off about 80k in 3 and a half, 4 years. Awesome. So we're completely debt free and we're saving towards retirement, saving towards our kids education and now we're just trying to build up our savings for a house. And so we had about 15,000 saved up for it. And then obviously now with this money coming in, it's going to change some things. And so that's just kind of what I wanted to know from you guys is hey, what would you do with this money? Would you use it to pay off the house and fold that we're going to buy, you know, whenever that happens,

[A]

100 in cash, 100 down. And if you have money left over, you know, you can enjoy some of it, you can give some of it, but you investing some of it at this point, you're probably going to burn most of it just on this house purchase. And that's okay. You got plenty of time to build wealth. What do you guys make in a year?

[B]

I make about 110, 115.

[A]

And how old are you?

[B]

We are 26. Oh my goodness.

[A]

So making six figures at 26 completely debt free with a paid for house, how much are you going to be investing a month? Couple grand?

[B]

Yeah. I don't know.

[A]

You're going to be just fine. I'm not even going to use the investment calculator because I think it'll break with that many zeros on the end. 26 to 65.

[C]

I'm going to tell you something to that I would recommend you do that. I would not have listened to me at 26. Okay. We've already established you're a better person than me and you're wiser than me and so I'm hoping that this would sink in. If you and your wife have been had a goal for a $250,000 house and that was your dream and y' all had a plan for it and suddenly the world drops $275,000 in your lap. I would stick to that $250,000. I'd buy that house and I would give that $25,000 away because I think that's going to mark, this is the kind of people we are.

[B]

Yeah. And yeah, that's it.

[C]

It would be. Because the temptation that I would have had at 26 is I want to buy a 250, 000 house. Suddenly $275,000 drops out of the sky. I'm gonna buy a $500,000 house. I'm going to put 275 down. That's what I would have done. And that would not have been a couple of action steps towards the man I want to become in my 40s, 50s, and 60s. And so you and your wife saying, let's stick to our original plan. We, we literally won the lottery and now we're going to bless another family, another whatever with this 25k. And then we're going to wake up the following day and have a house with no bills. And we're going to be right back in the same situation, making good money with the life we want to have. And we're going to have real demonstrative action steps towards the couple we want to be, which is a generous couple that doesn't owe anybody any money.

[B]

I.

[C]

That's what I would, I would recommend you do. You don't have to do any of that stuff I just said, but that'd be pretty rad.

[A]

I love it. And if you already know how to manage the money you have, then getting more of it is not going to crush you. No, you can't manage money. And then they get a huge pile of it. Well, now they're really screwed.

[C]

They make a huge mess.

[A]

That's why we see so many lottery winners lose it in the first year or two. So way to go, man. That's awesome. Awesome. All right, let's head out to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Brian joins us there. What's going on, Brian?

[B]

Hey, how's it going?

[C]

Good.

[A]

How are you?

[D]

Good.

[B]

So I got told I don't have a lot of time, so I'm going to ask my question. My fiance has student loans. I don't have any. And I'm budgeting right now to put as much money, spare money that we have towards the student loan. But I'm wondering if maybe I should try to split it between the student loan and savings or just put it all towards student loans. Loans.

[A]

Well, number one, are you applying it to the student loan or are you just saying. I'm earmarking this in savings.

[B]

What do you mean?

[A]

Well, I don't recommend. And we wouldn't recommend you paying off someone's loans that you're not actually officially legally married to.

[B]

Yeah. So we're getting married in two months, and I'm planning this for after we're married. This isn't.

[A]

Okay, that's what I was going to say. I would put it in a high yield savings account and. And you guys get back from the honeymoon, you've got the pile of money. Let's apply to the student loans. So it depends on where you're at in the baby steps. We would say have your starter emergency fund. Thousand bucks, obviously, make sure that the wedding is cash flow. You got that?

[B]

That's 5,000 in emergency. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. No, you're good.

[A]

So you got 5,000 bucks in cash, and is the wedding all paid for, honeymoon paid for all that?

[B]

Yeah, pretty much. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I want pretty much to be. It's for sure paid for. We're not going to put the gap on a credit card.

[B]

I have the money set aside for the stuff we need. It's just a matter of signing the check.

[A]

Okay. And then once you guys are married, we're going to just make a list of all of our debts. Is it just your fiance student loans or are there other consumer debts as well?

[B]

I no car like no other debt on my side and she didn't have any either, so. Great.

[A]

So it's just her student loans. What's the balance?

[B]

30 all in about Cool.

[C]

So. So her student loans become yalls debts and y'.

[B]

All.

[A]

So I would not. You said, should I split some into savings? Should I split some over here? We would say just attack the debts. Do nothing else but focus on these debts. And once those debts are paid off now we can stack cash. You freed up all of those payments. That puts you in baby step three, where you get three to six months of expenses saved up in a high yield savings account. So how long will that take you guys? Based on the current trajectory I'm putting about.

[B]

Or. My plan is about a thousand a month towards the loans once we're married, and so it'll probably be two and a half years.

[C]

Is she working too?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So together y' all can only put a thousand bucks in. That's all. That's all the margin y' all have.

[B]

Yeah. Or at least that's what I'm budgeting as of right now.

[A]

What will your household income be?

[B]

Mine is before tax is about 60 and hers before tax is about 20.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

Is she working full time?

[B]

Yeah, she'll be full time making 20. Yeah.

[A]

I'm confused by that. That's like $9 an hour.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Or. Sorry. No, that's, that's after taxes. Sorry, I did. I don't remember what the math was before taxes. Okay. Did the. Yeah, sorry.

[A]

Well, I would aim to try to get them paid off in less than two years. The average we see is 18 to 24 months to get rid of your consumer debt. And if it's just the student loans, 30k. I would try to up that income. Once you guys are married, have her making 40, you're making 70. Now we can knock this thing out way faster. Cuz 1000 bucks a month for 30 months, that's a grind.

[C]

Especially if that's all of the margin you have. I put 18 months on the calendar and have a. What must be true for this to come to. To come to fruition conversation and see if y' all can make that happen.

[A]

Hey, George Camel here. Listen, if you've had your phone two or three years, your phone can now be unlocked. That means you can switch to Boost Mobile. To get unlocked, bring your own device and keep more of your money where it belongs. Look, the fat cats of big wireless, they are counting on you just staying put and overpaying every single month. They want you to think switching is complicated, risky, or just not worth it. Meanwhile, your bill keeps climbing like it's training for a triathlon. But Boost Mobile makes switching simple and way less spendy. You bring your phone, keep your number and get unlimited wireless for just $25 a month. Yeah, 25 bucks a month. Not for six months. Not for a promotional period. Forever. And there's no contract, no hidden fees, and no, we changed your plan because we felt like it. Email. So if you're tired of overpaying for something you already own, this is your moment to save money. Go to boostmobile.com Ramsey and get unlocked today. That's boostmobile.com Ramsey $25 forever requires customers to remain active on Boost Mobile unlimited plan. The Ramsey Show Question of the day is brought to you by WireFi. If you keep putting off dealing with your private student loans, now is the time. Y refi helps borrowers explore low fee, fixed rate refinancing options and affordable payment plans. Go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey may not be available in all states.

[C]

Today's question comes from Jill in Minnesota. Jill writes, our son graduated high school last year and has not worked for the past seven months. He says he's applying for jobs, but he stays up all night playing video games and sleeps all day. We've tried to help him and have given him plenty of time, but nothing has changed. We wrote up an agreement that gives him two months to find a job and start paying rent. If rent is late, his phone service and wi fi privileges will be suspended. If he doesn't pay rent for two months in a row, he'll get a 30 day notice to find another place to live. When we reviewed the plan with him, he became angry and hurt and I'm struggling with intense mom guilt. I don't want to enable a lifestyle that isn't preparing him for adulthood. Are we being reasonable? Here's the problem with this question is I don't want to enable a lifestyle that isn't preparing him for adulthood and I don't want to feel uncomfortable. And those two things can't coexist. Our mutual friend Henry Cloud has a great story. It's very similar to this that when the, when the parent was talking to Dr. Cloud about the situation with their kid, he said, Dr. Cloud wisely said what your kid needs desperately from you is problems because your son has is zero incentive to do anything differently than what he's doing. He has free rent, he has his free schedule. He has nothing, no responsibilities. He has to like he's just doing what a natural inclination this oozing through life because there's place to ooze.

[A]

He's on an infinite summer break right now. Correct? Graduates high school. What, what do 18 year olds want to do? Do? Sleep all day and play video games. He's living the dream, right?

[C]

And the greatest gift he could get, the greatest gift a young man like this could get is responsibility. The, the idea that I have to do a thing because there are real consequences if I don't. And so I think you're not only being reasonable, I think you're being overly generous because now it's going to turn into a year where there's any true consequence here. I, I personally, this is just me having worked with people this age my whole career, getting into the phone service and wi fi privileges brings him back to a middle schooler and you back to I'm grounding you from your fill in the blank. And so if we're going to truly do a tenant like a, like a, a tenant like homeowner agreement here, we're not going to do little, we're not going to insert little mom and dad pokes in here, you pay your rent or you're out. Bigger than this, I. It almost feels like just to say, hey, you know what? We were wrong on this deal. We need you to move out. Like, we want our house back. We want you to fly, little birdie, fly. And it's time to go make it happen. And then he's gonna have to go, and you're gonna have to be the adult, emotionally intelligent, emotionally mature adult and say, I am gonna feel sad. I am gonna feel upset that, that I did a thing and my son's mad at me. That's part of being a parent. And. But I know this is the right thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right now it sounds like every time you talk to him, you just sound like his landlord. And I think at 18, you're transitioning from parent to friend. And so what he probably needs is just some guidance, someone to care about his future and show him a path out and go, hey, I noticed you're really into this. Have you tried doing this over here? Yeah, but it was a.

[C]

For seven months.

[A]

And he's like, I just want to play video games.

[C]

Yeah, not happening, not happening.

[A]

But I know at 18, like, there's things I love doing, but no one showed me that, oh, there's a job, that I could actually do some of these things. So that's where I go. Maybe he needs an outside mentor, a friend, a third party to kind of step in and get him excited about life.

[C]

Here's the way I like to frame this less. Like, if you don't do this, then I'm cutting you off. I'm cutting off your relationships, I'm cutting off your home, I'm cutting off these things. I like to frame these especially with all kids. Kids. But when you're Talking to an 18 year old, here's the choices in front of you. If you want to go to college, if you choose to go to college, here's how we are going to support you. If you choose to go get a job, here is how we're going to still open up our house on Sundays for you to come over for lunch and you can sneak some laundry in. If you choose to do nothing, you are choosing to move out, you're choosing to fill in the blank. And as a parent, I can say I can't stand that you're making that choice. Choice, because I want to be right here with you the whole time you're choosing to leave. I don't like that choice. But that's a choice you're making. And I want to always hand the choice, the responsibility. Or another analogy I use a lot is I want to. I want to hand the weight back on the bar that is life back to them and say, you got to learn how to lift this and get stronger because that's how life works. I'm not going to be there to clear the deck for you all the time. And if you've waited until 18 to start enacting this, if mom guilt has haunted you his whole life, and, man, it's going to be an abrupt lesson for both of you. It's going to be really rocky for a season. No question about it.

[A]

But, yeah, tough one, Jill.

[C]

Yeah, I, I'm not going to have a, a high school graduate just living in my house,

[A]

freeloading.

[C]

Yeah. Playing video games all night and sleeping

[A]

all day, as cool as it sounds. All right, Teddy is in Los Angeles up next. Teddy, what's going on?

[B]

What's going on, you guys? Thanks for taking my call.

[C]

You got it, brother. What's up?

[B]

Up? So my wife and I would like to get your opinion on if leaving California in pursuit of a lower cost of living and eventually buying a home would be the best decision for our family.

[A]

That's a big decision for two random guys.

[C]

Yeah. We don't know you that well. You tell us.

[A]

So you're, you're saying you value home ownership over your current location?

[B]

Yeah, I think so. And just like the future of what our lives could be and like our family.

[C]

Now you're talking. Now you're talking.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So there's a bigger picture here. And you're going, here's what we really want. And none of these things mean we have to stay in California. You're willing to make a sacrifice, which is wise because we always tell people you don't get a pass on math. If you can't afford to have the thing there, you don't automatically get it. And you might need to move to a lower cost of living area if your current income can't support it.

[B]

I'm, I'm right on on board with that.

[A]

Where do you guys want to move?

[B]

My wife is down with Tennessee and I am down with no state income tax.

[A]

Okay. So any state with no income tax, like, that's fine with me. And so Tennessee could be it.

[C]

Texas, Tennessee, Florida, Nevada.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And do your jobs, transfer easily.

[B]

So I work full time as an EMT phlebotomist in the ER right now, but I'm in school debt free at my local community college getting my nursing degree, and my wife Works full time as an assistant manager at a clothing store.

[A]

Okay. So both of you would need to find jobs before you make the move. And do you have family nearby in California right now, or would you. Are you already kind of on your own?

[B]

Yeah, that's kind of the thing that's keeping us here is, you know, we got another kid on the way in January, we're having our second baby, and our family, her parents and my mom, they all live around us. So it's like if we need to do something, we can drop our daughter off and it's. It's free and we trust him, you know?

[C]

Yeah, sure.

[A]

That's the thing I wanted you to weigh, because a lot of people underestimate how great their life is until they move away from family and they go, oh, my gosh, I didn't know that was such a lifeline until we have it.

[C]

My wife and I did that. We had two young kids and we moved halfway across the country, and both of our parents lived within a few hours from each other. It was tough. And what it meant was, kind of like we always say, you don't get a pass on math. Me and my wife did not get a pass on new relationships, and we didn't get a pass on new friends and new mentors and things like that. We just had to go. We had to go not use the default settings. Weddings, which had been our parents and our neighbors, and we had to go. We had to go dig in. And I'll tell you, on this side of it, leaving family has been really hard. And some parts of it have been amazing. Right. So there's no. There's no Scot free. But the thing that we wanted, like you're talking about is we wanted financial freedom. We wanted water to fall from the sky occasionally. We wanted these giant green things called trees. Like, we had some things in our mind that we wanted for our kids and for our family, solving for peace. And that came at a. It does come at a cost. But on the whole, man, it's been the greatest thing we ever did.

[A]

So once you make the decision, just make peace with it and don't go, man. But remember, in California, just go, this is our new life. We said, this is it. We're going to move forward with it.

[C]

And so what must be true here?

[A]

Exactly. And so you might need to start budgeting for some child care with that newfound higher income thanks to less taxes.

[B]

Sam,

[A]

A lot of banks are happy to hold your money, but Fairwinds Credit Union helps you make progress. Most people Spend years focusing on their financial goals and never stop to ask whether their bank is helping them get there or just holding onto their money. The real goal is building an emergency fund, paying cash for your next car, saving for a home, looking at your finances and actually feeling some peace. That's why I love Fairwinds. Their Smart Bundle gives you up to 10 free high yield savings accounts to help you stay organized as you save for different goals, plus early direct deposit and no monthly fees. And you get support from real people who want to help you win with money. You can even get the Ramsey Debt is Normal Beweird debit card which is linked to your free Fairwinds Spend Smart checking account to tell the world you think differently about money. So look, if you're working the baby steps, your bank should be helping you move toward financial freedom, not just park your cash. Go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey to open your Smart bundle and start making Progress today. That's Fairwinds.org Ramsay Ramsey insured by the NCUA. If you make good money and you got nothing to show for it, I have a solution for you. It's the EveryDollar budgeting app. It'll help you find extra money every month. Helps you build a personal plan to beat debt and build wealth. And in just 15 minutes, you're gonna have a clear plan for your money. You're gonna find thousands in hidden margin and it will feel like you got a race. You're gonna be in control again. So don't live normal. Live like no one else. You can start every dollar for free in the App store or Google Play. David is in Lexington, Kentucky. Up next. What's going on, David?

[B]

Hey, how's it going? Great.

[A]

What's your question?

[B]

Just kind of have a question about how the fastest and best way to get out of debt. Me and my wife, we've been married for four years now. Took us about a year. We spent way too much money on our wedding. We realized that after about a year, after we'd been married and start trying to fight our way out of it. We paid off a little over $30,000. And fast forward a couple years, we bought a home. We still didn't have all our debt paid off at the time. Bought a home. Now we have two kids and we have right at 40, 42,000 in credit card debt. We have 20,000 and she has 20,000 student loans, 13,000 in a mower. I think I still owe 13,000 on my truck. No, 14,000 on my truck. I make roughly. I do four different I have four jobs and a mowing company of my own, hence the mower. I think we're gonna. And she has a little party business where she does parties. All together I think we're clear right at 100,000 this year. And we just like, we're still not getting anywhere on the debt.

[A]

So you guys make $100,000 and you have about 89,000 in debt.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Plus the mortgage.

[B]

Yeah, the mortgage is 1656amonth. We owe 215 on it.

[A]

Okay, so let's ignore the mortgage for now. We're going to walk through a process called the baby steps. Do you guys have $1,000 for a starter emergency for fund?

[B]

We do.

[A]

Great. Baby step one, check. Baby step two, we're going to knock out all of this consumer debt using the debt snowball method. So you asked what is the fastest way to get out of debt? The one that has been proven to actually work, the one that we recommend that's caused millions of people to do this thing is called the debt snowball method where you list the balances smallest to largest, and you ignore the interest rate, which is really hard to do when you see that interest adding up. But the goal here is momentum and progress and you're going to knock out that smallest balance really fast with all the margin you can muster up selling stuff, working those four extra jobs. She's hustling on the weekend with her side business. And once you free up a debt, you free up a payment. Now you apply that payment to the next debt. And so if you do that making 100k and you got 89 in consumer debt, that's still going to take a while just based on the debt to income ratio. So now we go. Okay, what can we sell? Well, you got a mower on a truck. Could we sell those things and get cheaper versions of them and get out of those payments?

[C]

Sense or how much do you make on your mowing business on the side

[B]

versus so far, if I don't do any pick up any other customers this year and I just stick where I'm at, I'm gonna make 22. But after you take taxes out, it's gonna be about, well, not taxes, but gas and supply and the payment on the mower. I got 0% interest for 48 months. I don't have any interest.

[A]

Are you trying to impress us, David? Trying to sell me on a mower?

[B]

Uh, but we had. So all that together should be right at 15,000 cleared.

[C]

Okay, so you basically bought a depreciating asset. That is a Hundred percent the valuation of your company.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And so I would say mathematically and psychologically and time wise in two young kids, if you stop mowing and sold this tractor, there's zero percent chance you get 13 grand for it. But let's pretend you did. And you just said, I'm not in the mowing business anymore. You actually come out net neutral, which in your situation is net positive. Because if you just went and got an like for the time you mow, if you just went and got an hour a minimum wage job, you'd come out net better when it's all said and done. You get what I'm saying?

[A]

So how much is the mower worth?

[B]

It's brand new. I just bought this year. 2026. Yeah, it's 2026. It's got 100. I've already put 120 hours on it.

[C]

Oh, geez.

[A]

Guess how many of your customers care if you have a 2026 mower versus the 2022 edition.

[C]

I have two nice mowers at my place. What kind of.

[A]

This is like the Maserati.

[B]

It's a skag tiger cat too.

[C]

Okay, good gosh.

[A]

So you want. You wanted a nice toy and you said I can justify it with my side business. That's fine.

[C]

What's your main business? Business?

[B]

I work for Walmart distribution center.

[C]

Okay. What's your second business?

[B]

I do the maintenance owner church campus, which is a total of four different buildings.

[A]

What makes you the most money per hour?

[B]

Per hour is whenever I do landscaping jobs.

[C]

So could you just work at the distribution center and cancel those other jobs and just start hustling more lawn care jobs?

[B]

I could, but it's very flexible with. My other three jobs are all here on the church campus. All of them are here. I took the place of four other people. Whenever I took on all these positions, there was four different people doing them. I took all of them on. It's very flexible. I maybe work here 20, 20 to 25 hours a week, give or take a couple hours. What do you make per hour bring home? I think it was 17 hours. 1400amonth after Social Security and taxes are cut.

[A]

Bor saying if you make 50 an hour doing landscaping, even with less flexibility, you'll come out ahead.

[B]

Right. But then. But I'm worried I run into the risk of not having a client having the proper amount of clientele in order to fulfill all the area because this is year round. I'm getting paid for the.

[C]

I got you.

[B]

But.

[C]

But here's the thing.

[B]

You're in.

[C]

You're in an emergency situation. You're 100% leveraged without your house.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And that my screen says you're $109,000 in debt, which is 20 more than I factored. So where's the other 20 coming from?

[B]

What is it now?

[A]

You got 42 in credit cards, 20 in student loans, 13 on a mower, 14 on a truck. Is there anything I'm missing?

[B]

Yeah, I said 20,000 student loans, correct?

[A]

Yep, yep.

[B]

Now that. Okay, everything.

[A]

What is a truck worth? You owe 14 on it. What can you get for it? Private party.

[B]

I think I know what I need to do. I think I need to sell the truck. But everybody in my family, like, if you're working that much, you need a reliable truck. It's worth 20. I think I can get 24 out of it.

[A]

So you will net 10k in which you could go get a truck for 10k.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's still reliable.

[B]

That's what I think I need to do. But so many people that I've relied on all my life.

[A]

So many people are broke, David.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You're asking broke people for advice. You're gonna get broke people answers.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We're trying to show you a path out, and you're trying to justify with reliable transportation. And so what's your truck payment?

[B]

3:15.

[A]

And then what's the mower payment?

[B]

316. No, I'm sorry. They dropped it. It was a 282amonth.

[A]

Okay. But between the two, you just gave yourself a $600 net raise. If you sold both of those things now, you got some margin to knock out the student loans.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because now you're only 62,000 in debt. So we can start knocking out the next month's balance.

[B]

So even though I would clear. Even though I clear more money a month having the mowing business, you're saying I would still come out.

[A]

You could go get a mower on Facebook marketplace and charge 50 bucks a yard.

[C]

The only thing I'm worried about on that mower is that you could resell it for nine.

[A]

Could you get your 13 back out of it?

[C]

No chance. I've been bet.

[B]

I think I could probably get 10 to 11.

[A]

Okay. So you could save up the difference, and you'd still be better off if you came up with 3,000 in cash to get out of that loan and sold it. It's still wise. So don't have the sun cost fallacy of, well, I'm underwater in the mower, so I can't sell that. I Can't sell the truck because I need reliable transportation. That's the kind of stuff church job because it's flexible.

[B]

Yeah, I fully believe I can sell the truck. I don't have an issue selling truck. It's just been trying to listen to other people. I trust it. But I see what you're saying. 100 there. So you're saying I should give up the church job and the mowing business and sell my truck and then just pick up a part time job.

[C]

No, I, I'm saying if you're going to keep this tractor and keep this mowing business because it sounds like you're really good at it. It sounds like you're actually making some headway. You're, you've reached that saturation point where the amount of jobs you're willing to go get barely covers your, your costs. But since you've barely covered your cost, if you found time, if you found another 22 hours in your schedule school, could you fill that time with mowing jobs that would then cash flow this business in a powerful way. Get that truck, I mean get that tractor paid off in three months and now you're off to the races.

[B]

Right?

[C]

You know what I'm saying? So don't do all three of those like because then you'll just be sitting at home with one job. No truck, no, no lawn mowing business, no side hustles. You got to work extra jobs. I just want you to say like you've got to pick a few things and go look, laser focus on them instead of trying to do everything and keep a lifestyle and keep flexibility. It's just too much.

[A]

Yeah, you're spreading yourself thin. So you asked us what's the fastest way out of debt. We just gave you a path out of this thing real fast. Now you got to decide if you're going to go do it. Welcome back to the Rams show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Dr. John Deloney taking your calls at 888, 825-5225. Jeff is in Seattle, Washington. What's going on, Jeff?

[B]

Hey, what's up, George and Dr. John? I have kind of a strange financial living situation and I have a question basically about what to do next with my savings.

[A]

All right. John is no stranger to strange. Hit us.

[B]

Okay, so I'm 38. I work full time remotely and I sold my house in March. It was kind of a there. And so I basically have like $900,000 in savings. I don't have Any debt, I make like $220,000 last year. And I've been living in my car ever since then, which I know is not really the normal situation. And my plan is to move into a sale, buy and move into a sailboat in November. But I don't know if this is like a stupid financial mistake and whether or not I should sort of spend more money on my life. I'm not really doing anything with my savings and I don't have any children or a wife or anything.

[C]

Tell me, tell me about this kind of nightmare. What was so nightmarish about being a homeowner?

[B]

Okay, so I. First time I ever bought a house, I bought it well within my means. It wasn't a huge amount of. It ended up being 350 total. I think I ended up owing 200 when I sold it and I lost about 85 grand. So the reason it was a nightmare was there was a negligent survey during the closing process that led to an absolute legal nightmare between me and the neighbors. And during that process, I was hit by a hurricane. And that denial of my insurance claim led to basically a lawsuit against the largest title insurance company in the country. And it basically took up all of my free time and it was just like destroying my life. So I just figured, you know, you only get one life and I'm going to lose 85 grand. That was not fun. But.

[A]

But you have 900 savings now.

[C]

How'd you get $900,000 in cash?

[B]

Well, so 800 of that is in the stock market. I guess I'm using the wrong terminology.

[A]

Like a brokerage account. Non retirement.

[B]

It's in a broker. It's in a brokerage account. Yeah. I'm lucky enough to have a family member who's a portfolio manager, so it's been great to not have to pay fees. And I invest. And he's just, you know, really good at it. And so I've been putting money in there since I was 18. Right. So 20 years of that, it's about 900k. I have a bunch of money in crypto that's like, really? I don't even add any into it. And then I know you're supposed to have less in your savings, but I have like 100 grand in my checking account just because I am lazy, I guess.

[A]

Okay, so what drove you to live in your car, pun intended? Why not rent somewhere? That's a very strange decision to go, I'm selling my house. I have $900,000 and I'm going to choose to live in my car.

[C]

You know what you have? You have more than a million in liquid money.

[B]

More than that.

[C]

I mean, you've got 900 in the stock market. You got 100 grand in cash, plus crypto. Like you've. Yeah, I guess. You're not liquid.

[B]

800 in the stock market. Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so why.

[B]

Why the car?

[A]

Why not rent somewhere? Why are you scared of renting?

[B]

I think maybe I'm having a midlife crisis, basically. I'm not just, like, sitting in my car in an empty field. I'm driving around the country and using Starlink to work. And I'm just, like, seeing all the things I've never seen before. Like, I've been there. I don't know every national park. And, you know, just beautiful.

[A]

So this is an intentional adventure for you?

[B]

Yeah, but to be honest, like, when I first went into it, I said, okay, listen, you're basically rich for your age. Why don't you, like, treat yourself and buy a van or an RV or something? And I just don't do that. I'm like, using my car I already own and even this sailboat, like the sailboat I'm planning to buy In November, it's $25,000. And so, I mean, the stupid financial decision in my mind is I could buy a catamaran. That's about 20% of my total net worth. But, you know, people do dumber stuff like that all the time. Like, the last guy bought a lawnmower that's worth more than his house or something. I wasn't fully paying attention, but it wasn't that bad. I just feel like I'm.

[A]

Yeah, but I would make your life decisions based on what's less dumb than what other people would do. It feels like right now you haven't been making the super intentional decisions. It just sort of been like, that sounds fun. I'll try that. So what are you really after? Like, five years from now? Where does Jeff want to be? Is he still living in a sailboat?

[B]

Well, to be honest with you, maybe this is, like, past the scope of this conversation, but I don't think in five years I'm going to have a job because of AI. Right. I know this is like a national conversation and nobody really knows where it's going, but, like, I don't think I'm going to make it to 65.

[C]

So, like, financially or employment wise or. You think you'll be dead by 65?

[B]

No, I. I'm. I'm in good health. I think that my profession. Right. I'm I work in software. Okay. I am not sure that I'm going to be able to work to 65 if I wanted to.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

That I could be laid off in five years.

[C]

So let's say I. I 100% agree with you like that. That's a very real possibility. And so I'll take you back to when I was part of a think tank with higher education and there was six of us on the team. And I think within six months, five of us had sold our house. Like, we saw the math on the. The problem that was higher education. We're like, oh, this ends real soon. So two things happened. One, here I am this many years later and colleges are still kicking.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And I was also right. Like, it's. It's on not a great trajectory, but not in addition to selling my house. I also use that as a time to get my finances order, go back to school, get trained as a mental health professional, and to begin to expand. What could then come next? And so if you want to get on a sailboat and just ride the seas and just say it's. The end is coming for me and I'm not going to do anything else about it.

[B]

It.

[C]

You can do that, or this could be an amazing work. It could be an amazing Runway for you to do your software job and go get retooled in a totally different profession and into a totally different skill set for somebody else. You can help for the next 20 or 30 or 40 years of your life. One of those feels like it's cashing out. And one of those just feels like I'm looking at a potential reality in front of me. And so. So I'm going to. While I'm writing this thing as long as I can, because it sounds like you got a great deal ahead of you.

[B]

What.

[C]

What could be true in an alternative world.

[B]

Right. I see. And I know a lot of people ask you calling about how to get out of a money pit, but, like, there's this saying that people say you can't take it with you. Right? And like, am I just going to die with $900,000 in the bank and have. Like, why did I work? I think about this all the time. Time.

[A]

I think you need a deeper purpose than just my work and my next toy. Do you want to have a relationship? Do you want to be married? You want to have kids? What kind of life do you want to build outside of. Okay, you have. Because here's the thing. It's not dumb to buy a sailboat in cash and have that adventure. It's dumb to make all of your life decisions based on the fact that it's all going to come down eventually, so why even try?

[C]

It's just a nihilistic thought. And by the way, like, I don't blame you. Like the, the, between the media and this, this emergent new technology we have and the national debt, like, there are some real challenges. I, I just told my son recently, I think your generation, the, the hardest thing you're going to have to fight is rage. Not anger. Anger's right. But rage. This impulse to, you know what, what's the point? Nihilism. Let's just burn it all down. And so, yeah, like, like give yourself a picture in five years so you're laid off. You had a five year Runway and a million dollars worth of salary over those five years to go retool and become this man that you want to become. What is that picture? Let's aim for that. You know, it should include relationships.

[A]

Whatever you're looking for, you will find. So be real careful about what you're looking for. You should not feel uncertain about investing. And you don't have to. That's why we created Investing Essentials, a two night virtual event where George Camel and I walk you through my playbook for investing, investing and wealth planning. We'll simplify everything from 401ks and mutual funds to passing on wealth so you can invest with confidence. Tickets start at $199. Get yours today at ramseysolutions.com events or click the link in the show.

[D]

Not.

[C]

All right. Hey, George, I want to talk about that last caller for a second.

[A]

The existential crisis.

[C]

Yeah, because I think that young man tapped into. I mean, he's 38. All of us have to be honest about the. There's a band and I'll say 50 to 2050 to, you know, my son's 16. He's experiencing it. There's this, this pervasive, the air we're breathing. We were told a story that wasn't true. We were told a story. If you just go do these things, if you just go make money, if you just go get this degree, if you just go get this dream job, that suddenly everything not only works out for you, but that you don't have any worries. And there's this, this, this. It's not growing, it's roiling already. Just an a rage and a, A trapped feeling of life is happening to me. I have no agency in this thing. What's the point? Right? And throughout history, these moments have Happened. And they've been flashpoints. When there's big technology advancements that happen all the same time, right? It happens at the Industrial Revolution and before, when it's real easy to give into the rage.

[B]

Rage.

[C]

I feel like I'm Obi Wan Kenobi right now, right? Like, you give in to the rage and it shoots you off into directions of nihilism, of blindly following something, of wanting to burn everything down. And I get it. I'm in the middle of it, right? And I'm. I've got a young son, I've got a daughter. I'm in the middle of it, and I feel it and I get it. And also, my plea is, is to not let the rage take over and to exhale and to say, there's things in the world that we hate. There's things in the world that should not be this way. And anger in those moments is right. The question is, what are we going to do with that anger? Are we going to direct it to. Okay, here's what I can control here. Here is what I'm going to stop listening to. I think a great gift for people in that young man situation is again, again, responsibility. Who. Who depends on you, right? And that means I gotta be vulnerable and I gotta allow people into my life. I gotta allow relationships. I've got, not even just romantic relationships. I've gotta allow other people in. And that means I've gotta let myself out. I've got to have people that count on me and that I count on. And we have to find value in doing this thing called life together. And from that comes a shared sense of purpose, of, oh, I matter. I gotta show up here. My life can't just be about how much money I have in some stock market account somewhere. Because. Because that. It, like, as he said, you just get to a point like, what are we doing if my job's going to go away someday, which, by the way, all of our jobs are going to go away someday.

[A]

We're going to go away someday. The job, harsh reminder.

[C]

The job I have right now didn't exist when I was in college. There's no such thing as a podcast. There's no such thing as YouTube, right? So the job I'm doing now, who knows what this many years later is going to look like? Who knows? It's easy to just get trapped in that. And instead of saying, okay, you're right, things might change someday. So do I have my home taken care of?

[B]

Right? And.

[C]

And I mean, that's kind of the base of this show. You can't control what the government's doing with X, Y or Z. You can't control what this other country is doing. You can't control what this politician's doing. I can control. I'm gonna have a group of guys over once a week. I am going to control. Do I owe anybody any money? And I can control. You know what? My job is looking more and more fragile by the day. I'm going to start, start. I don't want to, I don't want to be doing this, but I got two years of night classes and Saturday classes so that I can get retooled on a whole different career or, or a less fragile career. Like those are things we can choose. And man, I, I just want to implore people, don't give in to the rage, because rage always, you end up in a place that you never wanted to be, right? And so feel that anger. And then sit back and say, what can I control here year? And how can I best use the time, the relationships, the resources I have to go create the life I want? And for me, in my house, I say it all the time. We solve for peace. What is the least chaotic world that me and my wife, our kids, our close friends can create in a world that's chaotic, right? And that just guides our investing decisions, that guides our purchasing decisions, that guides, that guides the. Hey, you know what? My daughter's at a, at a church camp this week. So me and my son and my wife were like, dude, let's go see the Odyssey. Three hours late show. Let's just go late. Let's. We did. And we stayed up past our bedtime, which screwed up my workout routine. We had a blast. The movie was awesome. We laughed as a family. We ate too much. Like it was. We're solving for peace, right? And it almost always comes from relationships. And this idea, this question. Who do I want to help? Help with my job, with my giving, with my resources, with my time. Who do I want to help lift up? And will I allow myself to be lifted up?

[A]

That was beautiful. I couldn't have said it better.

[C]

Please, please.

[A]

You know what? I should have recommended a book for him. And it's not a modern self help book. It's the book of Ecclesiastes. I think that is the best book. If you're going through an existential crisis, it'll help you reveal what matters because here's the tldr. The big quote of the book is, everything is meaningless and meaningless does not mean a lack of meaning. The actual root word is vapor. It's temporary.

[C]

It's quick.

[A]

So then you go, okay, if everything's temporary, does nothing matter? Or does everything matter so much more?

[C]

So much more.

[A]

You get to choose. Yeah, you could read that as well. Nothing matters. Financial nihilism. It is. Or you could say, you know what really matters? Relationships. People. Meaning purpose in my work. That's the book. So go check that one out if you're still listening, my friend. That's a. That's a tough call. But I relate to what he's going through.

[C]

I. I relate to it. And not only do I relate to it, I hear it all over the place. Like that question, what's the point?

[A]

May not be I have a million dollars and I want to live on a sailboat, but the root of that

[C]

is what's the point?

[A]

What is the point?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And not only what's the point is not only what the point is it in the present, but if it's all just going to da da da down the road, why even.

[B]

Right?

[C]

And, man, I get this, that. And find meaning where you are. And that's. That's my plea.

[A]

Beautiful. Rant over. Tom is up in Jacksonville, Florida. What's going on, Tom?

[B]

Hey, how are y' all doing?

[A]

We're doing great, man. Just having an existential crisis over here. How can we help?

[B]

Yeah, not sure I can follow up with anything more meaningful than that speech, but my question want to call? So me and my wife are starting to look for person our first house and so live in Florida, and there's townhouses everywhere. And. And I wanted to see what yalls opinion is on buying a townhouse versus a single family home.

[D]

I.

[B]

You know, you can get probably a little bit nicer of a house in a townhouse and for less, but I sometimes worry about, you know, you don't own all four walls. You, you know, you're. You have that shared wall. So what. What do you all think in terms of that?

[C]

Townhomes are moronic. Tom, I'm totally kidding. I just said that because George is right next to me, and he lived in a townhouse for a long time.

[A]

My first two homes were townhomes, and I have no regrets.

[B]

No.

[C]

Great.

[A]

And if. If that gets you your foot in the door with home ownership, lovely. And I think townhomes, people poo poo on them for really no good reason. Sometimes it's a slightly higher hoa fee. So the key really is location. Is it a neighborhood that's going to give you decent appreciation whether it's single family homes or townhomes. Is it, does it make sense for your family based on the space you need? We had a, you know, three bed, two and a half bath townhome with 1900 square feet. That's like twice the size of my childhood a home. And so townhomes are bigger, they're nicer than ever, they got the nice countertops. And so if you, if that's what you guys can afford and you don't want to wait to jump to the single family home, then go for it. How much is it?

[B]

A lot of them start in the high twos. So like if we're looking at a decent single family home in the area, you're looking kind of upper threes. And you know, try not to go too much past four, but you can get a pretty decent townhome for upper two, low threes. And so, you know, especially with trying to not not, you know, go above the 25% take home pay, it's that, that's kind of one of the big things. But one other concern is what do you, what do you see on appreciation versus that? I know, I feel like I've read that townhomes don't appreciate. Maybe the location, like you said, is one of the biggest things.

[A]

The location will matter the most. They might appreciate slightly slower if you looked at the data. But I'll tell you the numbers on our townhome. Obviously this was during like the COVID boom, but we bought for like 300 and it sold for 520, which is insane.

[D]

Wow.

[A]

And so to say that townhomes don't go up in value is bs. And the key is it was a very desirable neighborhood. A lot of people wanted to be in that neighborhood regardless of what kind of home it was. And so that's where I would caution you to work with your real estate agent to go, what is a great location with good schools that's going to have decent resale value that we can afford? And so once you look at across the board, you're going to make a smart decision that's not going to leave you one wondering, well, we could have made 4% more. You're not doing this to make the spread. You're doing this because you want a place that you can call your own and you're going to build some equity in the meantime. And what we did, we paid it off, we took that 100% equity, rolled it into the next one. And that's what will happen instead of you just renting for the foreseeable future instead of waiting for that single family home. So I hope that helps anybody out there wondering, should I do it? Should I not? Especially for young people, if you want to get that first home, a townhome come could be a great option. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, ask Ramsey is here to help help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com. Buying or selling your home is high stakes because one bad deal can cost you tens of thousands. You don't want to overpay for your next house or sell your current home for less than it's worth. That's why Ramsey trusted connects you with vetted real estate agents who have the experience to guide you step by step to make smart decisions, not expensive mistakes. You can find a local Ramsey trusted agent who has your best interest at heart for [e-mail] agent or click the link in the description. If you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Katie is in Milwaukee up next. Katie, welcome to the show. You mentioned made it.

[D]

Yeah, thanks. Thanks for taking my call today.

[A]

Absolutely.

[C]

What's going on?

[D]

So my husband keeps using debt to finance our lifestyle. We're not, we are not in debt. We are net worth millionaires. But whenever we go to buy something like a car or looking at buying our first time together, he's like, we'll just get a loan for that. Like, why? Why would we do that?

[A]

You have the cash to pay for the whole thing outright. But he would prefer to take on the payment and use his cash elsewhere.

[D]

We're not using his cash elsewhere.

[A]

Like, what's his logic behind it?

[D]

I think it's because that's what people do.

[A]

So he doesn't know any better. He's just like, well, you get a car payment. You don't. Who pays full price for the car in cash? That's crazy. Is that his mentality?

[D]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

How long have you guys been married?

[D]

We've been married eight years and this

[A]

has been like this the whole time. You guys have misaligned values when it comes to money from day one.

[D]

Yes. We were married and we moved countries. We had a baby. All very kind of close together. So I was kind of elsewhere, kind of focused, and now I'm kind of like, wait, we do what now? So I'm just kind of starting to pay more attention. And we've had the conversation about it, but I haven't kind of had all the numbers in front of me to kind of go, wait, why are we doing this again? And now I want to kind of work towards our house. And I know he's going to be like, well, we'll just put down a small amount and we'll pay it off.

[A]

Yeah, he's busy taking on debt. He's not trying to pay some off right now.

[D]

Yeah, we don't, we don't have any debt. So that's nice.

[C]

The beauty of the conversation you all have is it's actually not a number conversation.

[A]

You can't outnumber him. He's going to always have. Well, you're not seeing this picture.

[C]

Well, and let's be honest, it's worked out for him.

[D]

Yes, he's been very fortunate to have great jobs. They financed a bunch of his bachelor years. He's had great travel, lived all over the world.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

So lucky. And he has invested, I give you that. But we're making big decisions now because we don't have a house. We need to there. He has not ever bought a house. I have before in a previous relationship. And yeah, I think he's a bit scared of.

[C]

There you go. And that's. That's what I'm saying. Like, the conversation to have now is the bachelor life you had is over. And in fact, the first marriage that we had when we had, we didn't have a kid. It was just us traveling around the world. Doing what? Like that marriage is over. And now we have a new marriage.

[B]

Marriage.

[C]

A new life that we're both co creating together. Who do we want to be in that marriage? And that's when you. We're not talking about why you take a loan and we got the cash because that gets. That gets to be a proxy war, gets to be a distraction from the conversation, which is I want to live a life with just you, where we are never beholden to anyone, where we are always constantly free. And so anytime we take out a loan, we're now they're our boss. This mortgage company is our boss, and this car company is our boss, and this credit card company is our boss. I want you and me to be the drivers of our destiny. And because you're a millionaire, y' all can do that, right? But this is about you saying, here's what I want. Here's the life I want to build. What life do you want to build? And y' all put that out on the table and discuss that, because y' all are. Otherwise you're just going to get distracted. And he's going to actually be right, because all the data he has in his life up until now is it always works out right. And so you trying to fight that is. Is a feudal game, because for him, it's always worked out.

[A]

It's the only life he knows.

[B]

And you.

[D]

Because I. I've got the budget, and I'm kind of going because, I don't

[A]

know, has he ever looked at the budget in a meaningful way?

[D]

Has he?

[A]

Yeah. Or is he just like, hey, cool. Nice for you that you have the budget. Budget, But I'm gonna keep living my life.

[D]

He's kind of like, we should go to Portugal. That'd be great. I'm like, well, how much are we going to spend? He's like, well, it doesn't matter.

[C]

Okay, well, it's so. Well, so also, part of this conversation is you haven't been part of the lifeblood of your home. You've probably taken on responsibilities that he's

[A]

had a majority voting share.

[C]

Yeah. And he takes care of this part of it. And now you're saying, hey, I want us to do our life together. That's a total sea change. That's a new marriage.

[D]

Right. And I said to him, you know, we've got every dollar budget, so I'm kind of starting to record stuff just so I have visibility. And I said to him, that doesn't mean that I'm going to take all the decisions away from you. Not at all. And I don't want to do that, but I just want to have visibility so that we can say, well, we just spent 40 grand last year on travel. Is that okay? Or do we want to spend 20? You know? And so then when he's like, do you want. Should we do this trip? Yes. I want to feel confident making those decisions rather than be like, can we really afford this? I mean, we can, but also, I want to afford a house and.

[A]

But you want to do it intentionally instead of just, he's the free spirit and you're the nerd. And you guys have never really called that out. I'm guessing you guys don't have combined finances in every area.

[D]

That is correct. And that's the other thing that I've been battling for the last couple of years is, hey, let's just pull in the money. We have from our previous country into this one. You're like, well, how much is that going to cost us?

[A]

So he has his savings. You have your savings. There's one kind of checking account that you can both pay bills out of together. Is that what happens?

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

So how much does he have in savings?

[D]

I just wrote it down. I looked at all of our bank accounts together.

[A]

So you have access to all of his bank accounts?

[D]

I can. Yes. I can see it now. We have $582,000 in. In cash.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

No wonder he's like, let's go to Portugal. We got money to burn. And you're going, hey, I'd like to own a home. That money could go there. And so you guys really have different. You're going in totally different directions. Yeah, it's a tug of war.

[D]

Visibility is one thing, and the shared decision making. I do want to be confident in making the decision and not just leaving it to him. And we had this conversation a little while ago, and he's like, why do you care now? I'm like, well, when we moved here, and I'm not from here. When we moved here, I was 30 weeks pregnant. I had a lot going on. I was finishing our house. I was living in a new country. Yeah, I didn't care. It was not on the radar. But now that we're kind of like, okay, we've settled in and we're, you know, living life, and I've been working. Was working for a couple of years. Not. Not right now.

[A]

Well, his line of questioning was just defensive. Well, why do you care now? Now it wasn't. Oh, I love that you want to be involved. Let's. Let's create some goals and vision for our life together.

[C]

And also, Katie, you have to be honest if you're a fun partner to do life with when it comes to these things.

[D]

Well, I want to be a fun partner. That's the thing. He's a fun personality, and I want to be able to be. Yes, let's do that. Let's have fun. Let's do those crazy things. Let's go on the helicopter. Right, right. But I'm not sure how much we're spending. I'm not sure, you know, about a few of these things. And I just kind of like, until I have the full visibility, I don't feel I can. I can be that fun.

[A]

Have you shared that with him? Like, hey, I'm not trying to kill the fun. I just want to make sure that we're planning for the fun, because I'm More type A. And it gives me peace to know ahead of time what we're going to do.

[D]

Yeah. I don't think he believes me necessarily because I think he thinks I'm going to put him up a leash.

[C]

Do you put him on a leash in other ways? Have you put him on a leash before?

[D]

Nope.

[C]

Okay, then. Then that. That's him. That's him just projecting out. He's making up stories.

[B]

Right, right.

[C]

But. But there's something to be said for the honesty of. Your biggest fear is that I put you on a leash. My biggest fear is that we have no leash and we run out.

[D]

Well, it's not even that we run out. It's just that we don't make smart decisions. And I. E. If I want to spend, let's say we find a house at 8500 neighborhood. 850 is not unreasonable. And he's like, I only want to spend 650 based on what? Well, that's going to be able to be like, okay, we can't afford 850 because of a, B and C. Wouldn't that be awesome? Let's make that decision together rather than the fear of not being able to afford it because we don't really have a good plan.

[A]

So he can justify it when he wants to use the numbers against you and weaponize. Nice.

[B]

It.

[D]

Yeah. I have a good example. Made an investment.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

An investment with a friend in a

[A]

hotel without telling you.

[D]

No, no, no.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

He told me over time, but it started out with 50 grand and then more and then more. We're at 200 grand with zero return in six years.

[A]

Oh my goodness. You guys probably need a counselor more than you need a budget. But. But I'd recommend both. Hey, what's up, guys?

[C]

It's Jade Warshaw.

[A]

Listen, summer spending adds up so fast. Between vacations and road trips and camp fees and events and all the extra

[D]

gas and grocery runs, money can get

[A]

tight before you know it. To really get your money under control and keep it that way, you're going to need a plan. And that's what you'll get with the EveryDollar budget app. It helps you track your spending, free up cash to put toward debt and savings. And it's the simplest way to make a plan for your money before the month begins. So no more wondering where your money's going. You're telling it where to go.

[C]

Download EveryDollar in the app Store or

[A]

Google Play and start for free today. Our scripture of the day, Philippians 1:6. God who began the good work within you will continue his work until it is finally finished. Michael Jordan once said, some people want it to happen. Some wish it would happen, others make it happen. How's that motivation for you?

[C]

That's a good line. I like that.

[A]

Meredith is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Up next, what's going on? Meredith?

[D]

Hey. Yeah, so I am a recently divorced single mom of two kids and I've discovered the baby steps to kind of help me get back on track. And I'm at the point where I'm almost ready to start investing my 15%.

[A]

Awesome.

[D]

However I am, I'm in real estate and I own a property management firm on the side. Every month my salary changes. I'm just curious, what's the best way to go about calculating my 15%?

[A]

You know what a bad month looks like, you know what a good month looks like. Have you had any $0 months? What's been your lowest month in the last, say, 12 months?

[D]

Yes, but I run myself as an S corp, so I pay myself a monthly reasonable salary. So I don't know, like, do I use the 15% from that salary or.

[A]

Yeah. What do you report on your taxes? How much income?

[D]

Like 140. Great.

[A]

So I would base it off of that or whatever you're going to, you know, have this year. So you go, all right, 140, 15%, that's 21 grand a year every month. I need to be doing 1750 into some type of retirement accounts.

[D]

Okay. So just pick a number and like stick to it every month.

[A]

And then whatever comes in. The other way to do it is, hey, if I got whatever comes in that month, I'm investing 15% of that. If nothing comes in, nothing gets invested. If 20 grand comes in, 15% gets invested.

[D]

And do you do that based on the growth or do I like subtract out all my business expenses?

[A]

Well, if it's business expenses, you can, because whatever you're actually taking home. Home is what you want to factor the 15% on. So whatever your gross income you're taking home, you want 15% of that.

[D]

Okay. And then should I have like two separate savings, like two separate six months accounts, like one for business expenses and one for personal or is my like emergency fund only, like personal?

[A]

I would keep your emergency fund and a retained earnings account with your business. So if, you know there's expenses coming up, I don't know, know what kind of overhead you have. Some businesses don't have much. Some, you know, I need to invest in this, I need to replace this. I need to cover the taxes here. So you can figure that out with your cpa, if you have one, on how much you need to set aside for your specific business. But I think having both and separate is wise. Business checking, business savings, personal checking, personal savings.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

Absolutely. And this is good for anyone with a regular income out there. I always recommend having sort of a peaks and valley fund outside of your emergency fund fund. If you know you're gonna have a great month, well, you know you're gonna have more than you need for your expenses. So set that money aside in savings so that when you have a low month, you can then pull money out of that without dipping into the emergency fund.

[C]

It's how farmers have lived for centuries. Centuries.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. They know, like I'm not. I'm gonna get the harvest once a year.

[C]

Once a year.

[A]

And I need to put that money away to cover my expenses for the rest of the year.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Live like a farmer.

[C]

Live like a farmer.

[A]

George means farmer in Greek. Fun. Fun fact.

[C]

Fun fact.

[A]

I always try to give you one, John.

[C]

That didn't feel as fun as I was hoping it would.

[A]

It's fun to me. I never said it was fun for you, Just fun for me. There you go. Caleb is in Phoenix. Up next. What's going on, Caleb?

[B]

Hey, guys. I want to thank you for just everything you do. We, my wife and I started following the baby steps three months ago. So it's completely changed our perspective on money. And you guys are awesome.

[A]

Love to hear that.

[B]

Yeah. So my question is, I'm in a lease car right now. I hate myself now after listening you guys. So I'm a 4,000 miles over it, and I've got 13 months to go. I'm just trying to figure out what I should do, whether save up money for the car, save up to pay the fees at the end, or buy a car now to put miles on it.

[A]

Ouchie. Out of curiosity, what is the fees for going over your mileage?

[B]

It's 25 cents a mile.

[D]

Oof.

[C]

Yikes.

[A]

Okay, and we're just going to continue down this road literally, because you're just driving too much.

[B]

Yeah, My. My work commutes about 40 miles a day, and that's just accumulated over the. Over the time.

[A]

Well, there's three ways out. None of them are fun. All of them are painful. There's early termination, which is the most expensive way to go. There's the lease transfer, where you find someone else to take it over. Good luck with that. And there's the lease buyout, which is the most popular one where you need to come up with the full amount. So have you figured out the early buy buyout?

[B]

I haven't. I put a significant amount down and I know I only like owe like 6,000 left on it. Yeah.

[C]

But that's not what the early buyout's going to be.

[A]

I would contact them and say, hey, what is the early buyout amount to get you out of this thing? And then that becomes the number to save up for if you want to then own the car. Then you can decide, I'm going to sell this car, I'm going to keep this car.

[B]

Got it. Does the fact that. So my payment's really low. I actually traded in a paid off car for this. So I put ten grand down. So my payment's only 240. If I terminate this early, is that going to hurt me? Because you know, I don't get that 240 payment for a little bit longer.

[C]

Is that the 240 payment? Your balloon at the end of this with penalties alone is going to be thousands of dollars.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's the number that really matters versus the payment. So how much do you make?

[B]

About 100,000 year.

[A]

Okay. And how many months are left on the lease?

[B]

13.

[A]

Okay. So I would at least find out from them. There's only 13 months left. You may be able to afford it. Do you have anything saved?

[B]

No, I just paid off a bike and I've got like 2,000 left in savings.

[A]

Okay, well, we need to figure out the buyout price and that will give you the homework to figure out if this is going to be worth doing if you're going to do it. The lease buyout is the best option, financially speaking, because then at least you own the car and then you can sell that car for what it's worth. So the hope is that you find out the buyout amount is, let's say $20,000, $15,000, but the car is worth 30. So now you buy it out and you then sell it and you have all that money to go buy yourself a different car in cash.

[B]

Got it. Okay.

[A]

That's the fun way out.

[C]

Do you have any other debt?

[B]

Yeah, my wife's car we only owe like 19,000 on, but that's it.

[A]

Caleb, I gotta stop you. I don't want to ever hear the word only in front of debt ever again. It's only 240 bucks a month. It's only 19,000.

[B]

You're right. You're right.

[A]

That's. That's us justifying our decisions I know

[C]

you've done this on the back of a napkin. How much are you projecting in fees, in mileage fees are you going to have to pay?

[B]

Oh, it's going to be bad. Well, my work commute is going to get short here in the next couple months, so I don't know what it's going to be. I just know I. And I'm going to stop driving this car as soon as our like work location changes what I was planning on.

[C]

I'm just wondering if it's cheaper to Uber to work every day.

[B]

It might be. I'm not sure. I'm actually funny enough, the bike I have, it's a dirt bike. And the new shop location that's opening up is so close that I can actually take the desert to drive there. I was going to ride the bike to work.

[A]

Wow, that's pretty desperate. I mean, based on your payment, 240 bucks in 13 months, that's a little over three grand remaining in payments. So I don't think it's going to be that big of a number. And I'm hoping the car is worth more than three grand.

[B]

It definitely is.

[C]

Plus the 10 you've already put in it. So let's say 13 grand. There's a real chance you call them and they give you a smaller number than I have in my head right now. And the number I have in my head is dramatic and caustic because that's kind of how I, how I do life.

[A]

That's what's happening in John's brain, right?

[C]

You might get a three or four or five thousand dollar number and that would be worth scratching and clawing and just buying this car and taking that. I mean, think about how stress is. You can't drive your own car just to go run down the street because, or to go to a buddy's house and you have to calculate, oh, that's going to be $8 for me to go to my friend's house because, because of my, there's too much wear and

[A]

tear, so we're going to ding you for that. So these are. Leases are my least favorite. And if, if you're thinking about it, you're going, well, it seems like a good deal. The payment's lower. Well, that's because you own nothing. At the end of it, you're just prepaying the most expensive section of depreciation and then handing back the car.

[C]

And by the way, tell me if I'm wrong here, George. By putting 10 grand down on a lease, you just wrote him a check for the depreciation.

[A]

Oh, they're very happy to get some money up front.

[C]

You gave them cash for the depreciation.

[A]

They're winning on every side. And it's why you're going, well, if. No, it's the best. It's. People go, George. It's so smart because they're covering everything. All the maintenance is covered. They're happy to sell you that. That dream. But the truth is, they are making so much money on it. It's why they push people towards leases.

[C]

And they take the car back after you've paid for all the depreciation. After two years, they've maintained their vehicle.

[A]

Now they have an asset to sell.

[C]

And then they call it certified used and resell it at premium price. And minus the depreciation that you gave them cash for, they've changed the oil on their car, and now they've. They've won twice.

[A]

That's a genius scam, man. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.