Admit Your Financial Mess—Then Clean It Up

Summary

The Ramsey Show: "Admit Your Financial Mess—Then Clean It Up"

Release Date: July 14, 2025

Hosts: George Camel & Ken Coleman

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Admit Your Financial Mess—Then Clean It Up," George Camel and Ken Coleman tackle various financial dilemmas faced by callers, offering actionable advice rooted in the principles of financial discipline and wealth-building advocated by Dave Ramsey. The central theme emphasizes the importance of acknowledging financial setbacks and implementing structured strategies to overcome them.

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Key Discussions

1. Christopher from Boston: Overcoming Day Trading Addiction

• Timestamp: [00:45 – 08:04]
• Issue: Christopher admits to a five-year day trading addiction, resulting in a loss of approximately $70,000 and accumulating $45,000 in debt, including $30,000 from credit cards.
• Discussion:
  • George distinguishes between genuine investing and speculative day trading, labeling the latter as gambling due to its high risk.
  • Ken suggests Christopher's problem stems from an unhealthy focus and the allure of quick gains.
• Advice:
  • George: "Investing is a very different game. What you've been doing is gambling and speculation." ([02:16])
  • Ken: Recommends deleting trading apps and replacing the habit with disciplined budgeting using tools like EveryDollar.
  • Emphasizes the necessity of focusing on debt repayment and eliminating high-risk financial behaviors.
• Outcome: Christopher is encouraged to sever ties with day trading platforms, commit to a budget, and prioritize debt elimination.

2. Skyler from Atlanta, Georgia: Managing IRS Debt Due to Grandmother’s Financial Missteps

• Timestamp: [10:37 – 18:06]
• Issue: Skyler discusses her grandmother's improper tax filings aggravated by Alzheimer's, leading to IRS debts ballooning from $50,000 to $300,000.
• Discussion:
  • George probes the reasons behind the escalating debt, uncovering issues with amended tax returns.
  • Ken emphasizes the importance of consulting with a CPA or tax professional rather than relying solely on expensive legal counsel.
• Advice:
  • George: Suggests negotiating with the IRS for a manageable payment plan.
  • Ken: "We might be able to fight some of these enormous penalties and fees." ([13:00])
  • Recommends assessing all assets and ensuring essential needs are met even if some debts must be settled.
• Outcome: Skyler is advised to actively engage with tax professionals to negotiate with the IRS and secure a feasible repayment strategy.

3. Nathan from Huntsville, Alabama: Struggling to Grow a Car Detailing Business

• Timestamp: [33:21 – 41:05]
• Issue: Nathan seeks guidance on expanding his car detailing business, which has stagnated at $700 monthly revenue despite multiple marketing efforts.
• Discussion:
  • Examination of his business model and marketing strategies.
  • Identification of target markets as more affluent neighborhoods willing to pay premium for convenience.
• Advice:
  • Ken: "If you can't take what we just told you and turn it into real clients in the next 30 to 60 days, I'm not sure you're cut out for this." ([36:11])
  • Recommends focusing on referral marketing, adjusting pricing strategies to reflect higher quality, and targeting areas with higher disposable incomes.
• Outcome: Nathan is encouraged to refine his marketing approach, target higher-paying clients, and maintain consistency to grow his customer base effectively.

4. Diego from Newport Beach: Combining Finances and Planning for a Home Purchase

• Timestamp: [86:12 – 89:56]
• Issue: Diego and his newly married wife seek advice on merging finances, saving for a down payment, and choosing between a 15-year versus 30-year mortgage.
• Discussion:
  • Importance of consolidating joint accounts and maintaining clear financial boundaries.
  • Benefits of a 15-year mortgage for faster debt elimination and interest savings.
• Advice:
  • George: Advocates for a 15-year mortgage to reduce interest payments and expedite debt freedom, stating, "Never mix up your insurance and investing." ([58:36])
  • Encourages saving a substantial down payment to minimize mortgage time and interest.
• Outcome: Diego is guided to consolidate accounts, prioritize saving for a larger down payment, and opt for a 15-year mortgage to achieve financial freedom more swiftly.

5. Additional Callers: Quick Insights and Advice

• Rebecca from Portland, Maine:
  • Issue: Joint financial arrangements with boyfriend/proposed fiancé, including sharing expenses for home upgrades.
  • Advice: Emphasizes the importance of clear ownership and financial boundaries, advising Rebecca to maintain her financial independence.
• Nick from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania:
  • Issue: Balancing attorney fees with paying off a $30,000 truck loan amid custody litigation.
  • Advice: Recommends aggressive debt repayment strategies, including selling assets and focusing on eliminating high-interest debts to improve cash flow.
• Marco from Arkansas:
  • Issue: Balancing multiple jobs to pay off $10,000 debt while concerned about impact on children.
  • Advice: Encourages assessing actual financial capacity before overextending work hours, suggesting debt targeting strategies without compromising family time.
• Nicole from San Antonio:
  • Issue: Deciding whether to keep inheritance properties or sell both to pay off mortgage faster.
  • Advice: Supports keeping valuable properties for personal and financial benefits, while suggesting aggressive mortgage repayment plans to enhance financial stability.

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Conclusion and Insights

Throughout the episode, George Camel and Ken Coleman underscore the significance of admitting financial difficulties openly as the foundational step toward recovery. They advocate for:

• Debt Prioritization: Using the debt snowball method to eliminate high-interest debts first.
• Budgeting Discipline: Implementing structured budgeting tools to manage and allocate finances effectively.
• Strategic Investing: Encouraging investments in diversified, low-fee index funds while cautioning against high-risk speculative activities like day trading.
• Professional Guidance: Advising listeners to seek professional advice from CPAs or financial advisors for complex financial issues, rather than relying solely on high-cost legal services.
• Psychological Readiness: Emphasizing the importance of mental and emotional readiness to tackle financial problems, advocating for mindset shifts alongside financial strategies.

Notable Quotes:

• George Camel: "Investing is a very different game. What you've been doing is gambling and speculation." ([02:16])
• Ken Coleman: "If you can't take what we just told you and turn it into real clients in the next 30 to 60 days, I'm not sure you're cut out for this." ([36:11])
• George Camel: "Never mix up your insurance and investing." ([58:36])
• Ken Coleman: "If you were going to call a show like this and ask, I want somebody to shoot me straight. I don't think you're wired for this." ([36:11])

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Final Thoughts

"Admit Your Financial Mess—Then Clean It Up" serves as a compelling reminder that financial peace begins with acknowledgment and commitment to structured action. By sharing real-life financial struggles and providing tailored advice, George and Ken empower listeners to take control of their finances, eliminate debt, and build lasting wealth. Whether dealing with personal debts, business challenges, or complex financial obligations, the episode reinforces that with honesty, discipline, and the right strategies, financial recovery and prosperity are attainable.

Transcript

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Advertiser]

To you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[George Camel]

From the Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel, joined by my good pal, Mr. Ken Coleman.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's do it.

[George Camel]

There we go. That's the attitude we need. The number to call if you want to join the conversation is triple 882-55-5225. We are ready, willing, and hopefully able to assist you in whatever ails you today. And Christopher is going to join us up first in Boston, my hometown. What's going on, Christopher?

[Caller]

Hi. How's it going?

[George Camel]

Good. How are you?

[Caller]

Well, I've been better. Hopefully you can help me out with that.

[Ken Coleman]

I was going to say no matter what you were about to say, you didn't sound like a bundle of joy when you started that out. So what's going on?

[Caller]

Well, I've noticed you guys have had a few day traders in the show, and I figure you could help me with my personal addiction. I'd like to say that I'm just smart enough to understand markets, but just stupid enough to think that I can make money doing it.

[George Camel]

Based on your tone, it sounds like you have not made money doing it or you at least have lost money since then.

[Caller]

So I started investing about five years ago, and it's been a slow trickle stream of trying my best to learn markets, get in and out and pay for courses, even.

[George Camel]

Let's make sure we're clear. Investing is a very different game. What you've been doing is gambling and speculation.

[Caller]

It would be very difficult for me to argue with you.

[George Camel]

Okay? I just, I'm not trying to dog on you. I just want to make it clear for everyone listening because they think like you, that, hey, I'm investing. Dave says investing is good. This is very different when you were timing the markets within a day, which is what day trading is, getting in and out, speculating on what stocks are going to go up or down. There's a lot of risk there. And it sounds like you, you bought into some courses. Have you done, like the prop firm game where you pay to go through a test?

[Caller]

Something similar to that? Yeah, but okay, not precisely. More like courses offered by, you know, certain gurus. I won't bother naming who they are. But I'd say the core of the issue is that as. As much as I love paying off debt and the idea of paying it off when I get started paying it off, I always have this thought, well, you know, if I just Took this money I'm going to use to pay this credit card and invested it. I could probably double it.

[George Camel]

That's the starry eyed gambler in you, right? Well, you know what, I'll tell you this, Christopher. You are very self aware and I appreciate your honesty. Even calling in and saying I have an addiction versus no I don't. It's a hobby, it's a passion of mine and so I appreciate you even calling that out. How much money have you spent on.

[Caller]

This addiction over the course of the past five years? Probably about $70,000. Wow.

[George Camel]

And are you in debt currently?

[Caller]

I am currently in debt, yes.

[George Camel]

How much?

[Caller]

So I'm at a total of 45,000.

[George Camel]

Okay. What kind of debt is that?

[Caller]

I've got 30,000 in credit card debt, 5,000 that I owe to my father and about 9,000 that I owe to my ex wife. Man.

[George Camel]

How much of this was due to the day trading?

[Caller]

I'd say about 25.

[George Camel]

Okay, so over half.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Have you sought help? Have you looked into Gamblers Anonymous?

[Caller]

I haven't. I think up until this point I didn't really think of it as being an issue.

[George Camel]

What caused the turn?

[Ken Coleman]

Have you, have you struggled with gambling on other things?

[George Camel]

Oh no, no. Sports betting? Nothing.

[Caller]

Yeah, I, yeah, I despise that stuff.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. So George, I appreciate what you said and I think what you're saying is right. It is a form of gambling, but I don't think this is a full blown gambling type addiction. I don't think that this is it. I think you've got a little bit of the dumb and dumber philosophy. I don't know if you're old enough to remember that movie, but there's a. The signature line in Dumb and Dumber is uttered by Jim Carrey's charact and he's talking to his love and he basically asked her if there's any chance and she was like one in a million. And his reply is, so you're telling me there's a chance you know the line, right?

[Caller]

I do know that line.

[Ken Coleman]

And, and based on what I've heard so far, I think it is. I, I don't know that you had. Now I could be wrong, George, and I could be wrong, Christopher, but I don't think this is, this is like gambling addiction therapy stuff. I could be wrong. I think this is more a shift in your, in what you focus on. I've nerded out. George gets tired of me talking about this stuff. He's heard me talk about it a million times. I'VE nerded out.

[George Camel]

I get tired of Ken talking in general.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, that's true. Well, hang on. You got a little more coming your way. I've done so much research and studying on the power of focus. There's a lot written on it, and I think that you've been focused on this. So you're telling me there's a chance pie in the sky. Next time is my time, and I think you've got to look at $70,000 lost. And I think you got to focus on a more sound financial strategy which George can lay out for you. And I think if you go, I want to become wealthy, and I need to focus on tried and true strategies, not this highly speculative. Hit it. Hit the gold. There's gold in them hills and all that stuff. I think it's a focus issue, and I think that could be a big solution for you. I really do. But I think that's what's going on. You just have focused so much intense time on this concept, and it's blinded you.

[George Camel]

Yeah. I think to Ken's point, it feels like you've lost agency over your life, and so you've relinquished the control to chance at this point because you don't believe in Christopher to get out with his own willpower, with his own income.

[Ken Coleman]

Does that sound right? Are we on to something? Okay, good.

[George Camel]

So what. What are you making? What are you doing for work?

[Caller]

So I work in environmental.

[George Camel]

Okay. What do you make doing that?

[Caller]

Lots of overtime. So I'm up at about 135,000 right now. Wow.

[George Camel]

So you could clean up this debt within a year, no problem.

[Caller]

That's part of the reason that I called you guys. There's a certain day last week when I lost and $2,500 in about 30 seconds that I was like, you know, if I had applied Dave's method starting a year ago, I would probably be out of debt today.

[Ken Coleman]

Yep.

[Caller]

And that's what prompted me to call.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, you need a new process to focus on. You've been focused on the wrong process. And I think the power focus is so unbelievable. And so you need to shift your eyes to something that's going to win.

[George Camel]

Long term while adding more friction and removing the triggers and temptations in your life. So have you deleted every app, deleted accounts of every day trading site?

[Caller]

I can't stop looking at them. Even though I'm not trading currently.

[George Camel]

I think that's your next step now.

[Ken Coleman]

First of all, you can. You can stop looking at them. Stop looking at them. Just go, this is Absolutely. Been a train wreck for me and I'm going to stop looking at the train wreck. Just stop.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And it might take a few days of streaks to convince yourself. Man, it's been three days. I haven't looked at this app. I don't miss it. I'm making progress. And so it's going to take. I'm not saying this is going to be easy because you've been doing this for five years. I mean, it's become a habit. So we have to replace that habit with a good one, which might mean we're taking everything off the home screen and putting every dollar there. And our budget's the one thing we're going to look at and it's going to be a reminder that we're getting out of this debt this time once and for all. No day trading, just sheer willpower and our income, which is our greatest wealth.

[Ken Coleman]

Building tool, by the way, George, I'm 15 years without drinking sweet tea.

[George Camel]

Wow.

[Ken Coleman]

I used to drink sweet tea all the time. Couldn't, didn't think I could stop. And one day I was like, this is too much freaking sugar.

[George Camel]

You're so brave. I don't say it enough, Ken, you're just so courageous.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't like what somebody says. I can't stop.

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[George Camel]

Skyler's up next in Atlanta, Georgia. What's going on? Skyler?

[Caller]

Hey. How are you?

[George Camel]

Good. How can we help today?

[Caller]

Yeah, so I've got some issues with my grandmother's finances. So she retired in 2015, and then in 2018, she ended up selling a property and moving back home to be closer to family for her health. And with that, we have discovered, you know, that she was developing Alzheimer's. And through that, taking control of her finances, we found that when she sold the property, she filed her taxes incorrectly, and she rightfully owed 50 grand. And we're not sure if her Alzheimer's kind of played a role in her not paying that properly or not, but the IRS is now trying to come after her for 300,000 as of this next year. And, you know, that's essentially going to take her entire retirement from her. So just. We've already gone through the process of getting an attorney. We're just kind of wondering if there's any other avenues that we can explore. Wow.

[George Camel]

What caused the jump to 300 from 50? I mean, that's more than just some fees and penalties.

[Caller]

Yeah. So I believe that they were originally asking for 200,000, and then essentially she hired one of those, you know, get the IRS off your back companies. She paid 30 grand for them to comb through her finances, and they discovered that, yes, she rightfully owed 50,000 through an amended.

[George Camel]

I would have done it for 10 grand if she had asked me. Got a deal, man.

[Ken Coleman]

You would have.

[George Camel]

So they just confirmed it and then took 30 grand from her?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

But it still jumped up to 300, right?

[Caller]

Yeah. So I believe the issue was that the amended tax return did not get filed. So I think the IRS is trying to go with the original sum of, like, the 200,000, and then with. With fees and whatnot for the last seven years. I believe they are trying to increase that up to 300.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, okay.

[George Camel]

Wow. So what's been the contact with the irs? What's been the latest conversation?

[Caller]

Yeah, so primarily, my mother is handling this, but, you know, she's hired an attorney. She's put my grandmother in a home and had to sell her house in the last year to avoid a lien on the property. And currently the IRS is trying to put everything in collections. And so as of right now, they've requested a hearing and have not really heard back other than that they have received the request. Wow.

[George Camel]

Well, I mean, this is. This is not your normal creditor, the irs. There's a reason we tell people to put any IRS debt at the top of the Debt snowball. They can really mess up your life and garnish your wages and go after your assets. And so I don't know of a way to like, that they're just going to disappear or that we're going to turn this into 50 grand. But we might be able to fight some of these enormous penalties and fees. How much does she have in retirement? What's her total nest egg?

[Caller]

I'm not 100% aware of that, and that'd be more of a question for my mother.

[George Camel]

But your mom has financial power of attorney.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Camel]

Okay. And she's the one that's been handling this and you're helping.

[Caller]

Yep. So, you know, I was made aware of it over the last year or so, and, you know, I'm not really in a position to do anything myself, but, you know, I'm just trying seek advice as far as, you know, some other avenues that we might explore.

[George Camel]

Have you tried talking to a CPA or a financial advisor to get another opinion, find some different angles on this?

[Caller]

I have not. So I can.

[George Camel]

That would be my next step. I want to talk to as many experts as I can and see if we have any consensus. And an easy way to do that, you can jump on ramseysolutions.com and click on trusted experts and you can get in touch with a financial advisor and.

[Ken Coleman]

Some actual tax pros. Because I'm concerned about the lawyer. Is this a tax lawyer, I presume?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I'm with George on this. I. I guess I'm trying to put myself in your shoes as the grandson. And I think you're sort of calling us today because you're kind of advising your mom. I'm with George on this. Like the irs. I mean, there's. I don't know how much a lawyer is going to do in this situation. I don't know how much you can fight, maybe the fees. But I. Where I'm going, if I'm you, I'm going, what are we paying this lawyer? And. And let's get best estimates from the lawyer as to the amount of time that they think it's going to take to get some kind of an answer. Forget resolution, because I don't think there's truly a resolution here.

[George Camel]

If she owes the taxes, she owes the taxes.

[Ken Coleman]

So I just would be very careful about racking up lawyer fees. I'd rather sit with a CPA tax pro and go, if this were your mom, what would you do and advise us? I just don't think there's a lot of wrangling and back and forth. So I'm concerned about spending more money. Whereas we have an older lady who has Alzheimer's.

[Caller]

And.

[Ken Coleman]

And the other thing about this is, is, George, I don't know this for sure, but I'm fairly certain this is not like normal debt to where if she were to pass away, the debt dies with her.

[George Camel]

It would be paid out of her estate.

[Ken Coleman]

The IRS will come after this. So I guess my point is, is I wouldn't spend a whole lot of time lawyering up here as much as I would say we got to come up with a payment plan.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And I mean, playing nice with the IRS is the. Is the game, I think playing nice and see if we can get some type of a.

[George Camel]

Just some kind of agreement versus them coming after you are sending it to.

[Ken Coleman]

Collection some type of a payment plan to where hopefully, you know, this doesn't come out in a lump sum.

[George Camel]

What did she do with the proceeds? Because if she sold the property and made that much money to owe that much in taxes, she must have made some good profit.

[Caller]

Yeah. I believe the property she originally sold in 2018 was roughly 750. And then she put that towards purchasing a house near family.

[George Camel]

And then does she own the house? Free and clear. Is it a mortgage?

[Caller]

My knowledge, yes.

[Ken Coleman]

So she currently owns a home.

[Caller]

No, that. That home ended up getting sold to, you know, avoid the lien process.

[Ken Coleman]

So where's that money?

[Caller]

I'm not 100% sure.

[Ken Coleman]

I think we've helped you as much as we can help you. I think you've got to get these numbers. Get these numbers from mom and help.

[George Camel]

Mom to do that. And that might be looking at all of her assets and sitting down with that financial advisor and that tax pro going, hey, here's everything to her. What would happen if we did owe this full amount? How would she be able to live? And so they can kind of. Even if there is that worst case scenario where she loses 300 grand to pay these back taxes, let's make sure that she can at least live with dignity for the rest of her life. And so I'm so sorry you're going through this and that you're having to deal with this. I don't know that there's. I can wave a magic wand and tell you there's a loophole you haven't thought about.

[Caller]

All right.

[George Camel]

But I wish you the best, man. Oh, that breaks my heart, Ken. That's a tough one.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Where you were going with this, I think, is if the money from the second home, whatever the Last home they sold. If they've got enough to cover it, I'd just go ahead and take care of it. Wouldn't you? As long as it's only getting worse. Retirement?

[George Camel]

Yeah. The longer it sits out there, the longer it's racking up penalties and fees. I'd want to just be done with this instead of trying to run from it, too.

[Ken Coleman]

Because they're coming after it.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Even if she passes, they're coming after it.

[George Camel]

But I would want to see exactly how they arrived at that number versus just writing them a check. Let's see exactly what caused all these fees.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree.

[George Camel]

And that's where it's worth, you know, a tax pro, a tax attorney looking at this, going, if you can get.

[Ken Coleman]

Somebody from the IRS on the phone. But I got to tell you, that is a nightmare.

[George Camel]

Slim pickings out there. I imagine the wait time is. It's a DMV level. Trying to get a real id. Have you got the real ID yet, Ken?

[Ken Coleman]

No, I'm not going to.

[George Camel]

Wow. Okay. You made it very clear. Why is that?

[Ken Coleman]

I've got a passport. I'm not going to go stand in line and. And, you know, waste half of my day to get a little star on the side of my id. It's the government telling me what to do for some stupid reason. And when they said that a passport will work, I told my wife, I've got a passport. Why do I need to go get a real id? I'm trying to free some Americans up right now.

[George Camel]

I appreciate that.

[Ken Coleman]

No, seriously.

[George Camel]

And I did it only to push your buttons and pull the little string.

[Ken Coleman]

You knew it was going to irritate me.

[George Camel]

Yeah. I am the puppeteer, and I think.

[Ken Coleman]

It'S the dumbest thing of all time.

[George Camel]

What?

[Ken Coleman]

My regular ID doesn't work. I gotta go stand in line and get a star.

[George Camel]

It's good enough to drive and get alcohol, but not good enough to get through tsa. What can I say, Ken?

[Ken Coleman]

I will say very positive news in the headlines. Last week, they are removing the. Having to take the shoes off.

[George Camel]

That's big news. There's something to celebrate here.

[Ken Coleman]

I went and got TSA clearance just so I didn't have to take my shoes off. And now they're gonna do that. You see what I'm saying? Jody got me all irritated on a Friday afternoon.

[George Camel]

I pulled the string and the puppet talked.

[Ken Coleman]

Man, the government.

[George Camel]

Don't get them started.

[Ken Coleman]

Make it go away.

[George Camel]

Pay your taxes. Guys, this is the Ramsey Show.

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[George Camel]

This isn't just another summer sale. The summer Black Friday sale gives you the tools that help you win with money, relationships and career, all without blowing your budget all week long. You'll have a chance to score sale prices on products. So be sure to check back every day because we'll drop new deals all.

[Ken Coleman]

Is this something that we created?

[George Camel]

I don't know if this is industry wide, but our team is very creative.

[Ken Coleman]

Summer Black Friday they go.

[George Camel]

Why wait till Thanksgiving to give the people a deal?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, Black Friday irritates me anyway, except for this. This is now this is something you want to get deals on, get to.

[George Camel]

Enjoy summer and a good deal. Yeah, maybe it's fighting, you know, prime day is among us.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[George Camel]

So that's you.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you wait all year for prime days?

[George Camel]

No.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh really?

[George Camel]

The deals generally aren't that great for the things I want. It's usually kitschy things that I never order anyways. But the stuff we have no kitsch here. We got select audiobooks, ebooks, questions for humans decks, the Get Clear career assessment from my friend Ken Coleman merchandise and more. So go to ramseysolutions.com store and if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. The sale ends on July 18, 11:59pm and not a minute later. Wow.

[Ken Coleman]

Very precise.

[George Camel]

I'm just reading the legal facts. Stephanie's up next in Mobile, Alabama. What's going on? Stephanie?

[Caller]

Hi. My question is regarding some land that we had bought with other family members. Three other family members actually.

[George Camel]

And that feels complicated.

[Caller]

Right?

That's, that's what I thought in the beginning as well. And I kind of, my feelings had really changed. But my husband, this is something that he wanted to do more. So I was who are the family?

[Ken Coleman]

Give us the family relationships. Who are the three parties?

[Caller]

So the other three is one of his brothers, his wife, they're two and about to be three kids. And they live with their mom or. Sorry, with his mom or more like she lives with them. And then. And then the other set is his aunt and uncle, and then the last set is his cousin, her husband and two kids. About to be another kid, too.

[Ken Coleman]

How much land?

[Caller]

It's 75 acres. And here's where it. For me, it felt a little bit complicated, is that it's split 18.75 acres each, but 4 acres is like our plot each. And then the rest of that, that 14.75 for each is the back half of the land, and that is shared. And I don't know, I still don't even really understand the shared part because.

[George Camel]

What'S the goal of all of this?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, this is all confusing.

[George Camel]

Why did we do this in the first place? It just sounded cool.

[Caller]

Well, I know for, for them, they want it. I'm just. I'm just going. I'm just here for the ride.

[George Camel]

But who's living on the land right now?

[Caller]

No, nobody's living on the land because we're still clearing it out. So nothing has been even. Nothing can be built on it yet because we still have to clear it and we're doing it ourselves and to save money for that. But okay, when I asked about the shared part, like, why are we sharing it?

[George Camel]

So everyone only technically has 4 acres each.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Okay. And the rest is just common.

[Caller]

When I talk to them about it, common area. And one of them, I mean, I asked about it again last week and to one family member, he expressed that eventually he wants to get cows and I believe, like, have a camel or something like that. And I, I just said, well, I'm not interested in that. I just want to let you know that I don't. I mean, that's cool for you, but I don't want to partake in it. And I have to feel like I have to say something now.

[George Camel]

Are they trying to share costs of all this? I'm confused.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

What's the actual question here?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, yeah.

[Caller]

The question is. Yeah, yeah. And the reason that we're. I'm. I'm calling is because there are now expected costs that everyone is supposed to be sharing. And I thought it was only going to be this tractor that they just purchased because in the beginning we were using a tractor that was loaned to us for free, so we just had to pay for the food.

[George Camel]

Okay, so you're saying, hey, Bo, Cephas wants to get a giant tractor that's $500,000 to clear the land. We're going to have to pony up 125 grand. That's your fear?

[Caller]

Yeah, not that much.

[George Camel]

Sure. But just the example. He wants to start a farm. He wants to get the cat, and now it's on all of us to split it.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, listen, here's the deal. I am so confused because I don't understand how everybody, by the. It sounds like technically everybody gets 18 acres, but then you get 4 acres plot to put a house on, and it just seems so convoluted and all. That's all that's very confusing and very frustrating for you. Here's the problem. I don't know how George and I help you. I hear your question, but this is already done. And you're the wife. Your husband gets you into this.

[Caller]

It's not in any of our names yet. It hasn't been subdivided, so.

[Ken Coleman]

So this is a marriage conversation. Sounds like it is.

[Caller]

It is a marriage conversation. And because it's. And I spoke to him about it, and they reassured him, don't feel pressured. If you don't want to continue with this, you can just sell your portion back to us.

[George Camel]

Can they afford it?

[Caller]

I believe so, because honestly, we were the only ones that were hesitant about it.

[Ken Coleman]

And is your husband hesitant?

[Caller]

He. He is, because of the expense. But I know he has, like, FOMO because eventually he does want land, and he does. And I don't mind living near my family. I just.

[George Camel]

Here's an idea. Can you just sell the land back to them and buy your own land one day when you're ready and willing and able to actually handle it?

[Caller]

And I. And I've said that.

[George Camel]

What did it cost you guys to get in this?

[Caller]

So here I'm looking for a number.

[George Camel]

Stephanie, give me a number. 65.

[Caller]

It's like 65. And his mom gave us 40 to put as a. Towards our portion because that was like, part of our inheritance.

[George Camel]

Yeah, so she doesn't want to. That was a gift.

[Caller]

Well, his brother said, well, if we did sell back, then they'll keep that portion. And whenever they sell their house, then.

[George Camel]

No, it's your inheritance. It's your money. Do what you want with it.

[Caller]

Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, but we would get our inheritance when they sell the house.

[George Camel]

Like you guys have over complicated every single corner.

[Ken Coleman]

If my life depended on repeating back to you what you've told me so far in the last five minutes, I'm a dead man. I. I gotta tell you, this is crazy.

[George Camel]

This is a corn maze. That's what you built out here.

[Ken Coleman]

This is nuts.

[George Camel]

And it's going nowhere fast because Everyone signed up to somehow do this themselves.

[Ken Coleman]

This is you putting a full stop on your husband and go, hubs. We need to have a nice dinner, no one interrupting us. I've got fear, I've got doubts. I do not want to do this. Do you hear me? Do you see me? And I hope he's got enough sense to see and hear you and back out of this deal. This is going to turn into nightmare. These people are making up deals every other day. Aunt and Uncle Larry and Mabel are talking to his brother and they're cutting deals and nobody knows what's going on. This is a reality TV show. If I were a TV producer, I'd be going, everybody do this. And we'll throw a hundred grand towards this just so I can film all this because this is going to be a nightmare.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I'd rather him have FOMO because he backed out than have his current reality, which is a resentful wife and a mess on his hands that he has no control over.

[Caller]

And I didn't want to be that. And I said, I don't want to be the reason that you don't get to do this, but just know these are my fears. And so I know he's having to make that decision, you know, ultimately very soon on whether we're going to sell or not back to them. And he's been reassured that no one's going to hold anything against him if we don't do it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, but I'm suspicious of that. People that say, hey, listen, there's no pressure. We're not going to hold it against you. It's a manipulative move. A lot of times I get out of this thing.

[George Camel]

There's no good ideas in this mess. It's just manure and overgrown.

[Ken Coleman]

George, will you quiz me on the details of this? See if I can remember half of what she told us. It was that confusing to quiz you.

[George Camel]

I would have to know half of what she said. Oh, boy. I'm so sorry, Stephanie. I hope you and your husband can figure this out. This is definitely more of a marriage issue than a financial one. Okay, Rachel, the Internet officially knows too much about all of us.

[Caller]

So much, George.

[George Camel]

I mean, our names, our addresses, even our relatives names. And what's crazy is even if you opt out, data broker websites can still get your info. Don't like that. And just a year ago, get this, the average person had about 300 pieces of personal data floating around online. Now it's over 600. It has doubled in a year. You guys, that is so concerning. Because that info then can be used in phishing, scams, impersonation and even harassments. That's why George and I both use and love Delete Me. Yes, Delete Me scrubs your personal info from hundreds of these data broker sites, not just once, but all year long. And there's real privacy experts behind the scenes doing this, not bots. So this is digital hygiene we all need. We all need it. And then they will send you a detailed report showing exactly where they found your data and what they removed. And you can even request custom removals if you have something specific you want them to look out for. Exactly. And this is not being paranoid, this is staying protected. And so far, Delete Me has removed my info from 240listings and saved me 94 hours of time it would have taken me to do it. I love it. And you guys, in a world where strangers can google your grandma and get enough info to scam her in just two clicks clicks. Delete Me gives you peace of mind. Yes. So go to joindeleteme.com Ramsey for 20 off. And that discount brings their annual plans down to about nine bucks a month. So go check it out. Joindeleteme.com Ramsey.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[George Camel]

If you're enjoying the show, do us a quick favor. Hit the like button, the subscribe button, the share button. All of that helps us get the word out to more people because you guys are our best marketing plan. We don't do super bowl ads and billboards. We just have awesome fans that spread the word. So thank you for doing that. Nathan is in Huntsville, Alabama. Up next, what's going on? Nathan?

[Caller]

Hello, this, this is a question about like business. So I had started this business about a year ago and I was wondering how would you suggest to like get more customers?

[Ken Coleman]

What's your business?

[Caller]

If I'm having difficulty detailing?

[George Camel]

Car detailing.

[Caller]

Yes sir.

[George Camel]

Okay. Just kind of personal. Like I, I want my car clean. Do you come to me? Is it a mobile detailing or do I come to you?

[Caller]

Both. If you have difficulty driving to and from, I can come to you.

[Ken Coleman]

What have you done so far as relates to promoting the business?

[Caller]

I've put it on Facebook, I tried putting it on Google and I've tried to get my word out by like old fashioned going to stores suggesting like deals and stuff, but haven't got.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you mean stores? What do you mean by stores?

[Caller]

Like say an automotive store like Autozone or O'Reilly's.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you think your best model is? Is it people coming to you? Are you going to them. What do you think is the best deal.

[Caller]

Basically coming to them because I get a better deal. Right. The only thing is I'd have to like pay them a little bit or discount it when I use their water because I don't have a water source.

[George Camel]

Right, you pay them to use their water.

[Ken Coleman]

You don't pay them.

[George Camel]

If you come to my house and use my water to wash my car, I'm not charging you.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I'm thrilled. I've had guys come to my house and do my car. I'm like, yeah, the spigot's right over there. Knock yourself out. I, I don't, I don't know what you're talking about there. Okay, so here's the thing. Who are the type of people that pay for someone to come to their house or to their place of work to detail their car? Describe that person for me in your mind.

[Caller]

Someone that might not have common sense to start a business.

[George Camel]

Well, think about it. If I'm going to AutoZone, I'm more of answer.

[Ken Coleman]

I was looking.

[George Camel]

I know a pretty, a pretty good deal about cars. If I'm going to AutoZone regular, so I probably don't need someone washing my car. I probably want to do it myself. And so I wouldn't be going autozone, I'd be going into nicer neighborhoods where people don't want to deal with the hassle. They want someone to come to them, be professional, do a good job. So you need some good referral marketing. Like hey, I'll give you a twenty to five dollar gift card if you refer someone to my business. Hey, can I get you on a schedule to where once a month I'm coming and washing your car and we get you on the books and I'll give you a discount for that. Have you tried different models like that that.

[Caller]

Tried like maybe once or twice, but I haven't got.

[George Camel]

How much business have you gotten so far? How many clients? How much money have you made.

[Caller]

Within a month? Probably like 700. That's barely enough to get by.

[George Camel]

Is that like three or four cars?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay brother, here's the deal. Okay, this may not be for you. I'm not knocking you. I would want someone to tell me the truth. And certainly if I'm going to call a show like this and ask, I want somebody to shoot me straight. I don't think you're wired for this. The answer I was looking for from you is somebody who has means, who has a disposable income. They're very busy and so these are your wealthier neighborhoods. And if you put a very simple, clear message with a very good hook and offer, like George told you, and you're going around and you hit a neighborhood with, take my neighborhood, there's probably 2,400 homes in there. Listen, you keep showing up long enough, eventually somebody's going to go, I remember that guy and I took his card and it's on. It's right there by the microwave, babe, and boom. And you're there. Like, this is hustle and consistency and going to the right places. It's also going to pretty good sized companies in your area that have, you know, anywhere from 100 to 200 or 300 cars in the parking lot every day. And some of the people are going, man, if I, if this guy will come to my place of work and detail, my car and life is good. This is not a difficult business, nor is it a complex strategy. But I'm going to be very, very honest with you. If you can't take what we just told you and turn it into real clients in the next 30 to 60 days, I'm not sure you're cut out for this. And I think you should go get a good paying job and let's lick our wounds, figure out what we did right. What we wrong.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Are you working right now on top of that, Nathan?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

What are you doing full time work?

[Caller]

I'm working for another detail shop. I've worked maybe like two or three other like, details shop.

[George Camel]

How are they getting? They got enough to pay you?

[Caller]

Yeah. One was Donahue Chevrolet in Fort Payne and that's where I got my, my first.

[George Camel]

So working at a dealership.

[Ken Coleman]

That's a car dealer. Yeah.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Have. Are you in an area that just isn't as affluent, where people are not willing to pay for this type of service? Is that part of the problem?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Getting your car detailed is a luxury.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

You understand that. And so you have to go after people who are willing to pay a luxury price to trade their time for this service. Do you have pictures of cars you've detailed? Do you have a website? You have business cards? Is your pricing clear?

[Caller]

Yeah, I have a website through wix and I have my page on Facebook.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. What are you making in your current job as a detailer for working for somebody else? What are you making.

[Caller]

Weekly? About 500. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

And the most you've ever made is $700 in a month. On your side hustle?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I'm glad that this is not your only means of income. Glad you got that? I think you need to reassess right now. And the good news, this is your side hustle. So I would tell you, try it a little bit longer. I was under the wrong impression. I'd give it a little bit longer with the techniques that we've given you. And you got to go to the places where they are potential customers. But if it doesn't work after 90 days or so, I think you got to find something else where there's a little bit more demand. And so it's could be in the same type of thing, but it could be a bigger pain point, you know? But I know of a guy in my neighborhood, we, again, I live in a large neighborhood. There's a guy that's making really good money cleaning garbage cans coming in and power washing them, cleaning them out. And I'll be honest with you, if somebody knocked on my door today and said, can I do that? I go, no, I'm not interested. My trash can doesn't smell that bad. It's okay. I can live with it.

[George Camel]

Ken's like, it's made for garbage. Why am I cleaning it?

[Ken Coleman]

Why am I paying for something that's supposed to stink? But get my point. There's obviously a pain point in our neighborhood for that, and somebody's figured it out, and they're making really good money. Pressure. Washing sidewalks and porches. Maybe it's a slight shift here. You've got to keep. Keep getting active and trying, Testing. What am I learning from this? Why is it not working?

[George Camel]

And figuring out why. Don't you have repeat customers?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Have these people that you've actually serviced, are they calling you back or texting you back to get another appointment on the books?

[Caller]

Yes. I thought about actually going to churches in my area and trying to do their vans for negotiational stuff. Price as well.

[George Camel]

What do you charge for a. Let's say a normal car.

[Caller]

For a car that's not so dirty, about 100 inside and out.

[George Camel]

Okay. I mean, that's. That's pretty affordable. In the detailing world, that's a bargain. So there might be a world where you charge more, which creates more perceived value.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Because the guy who's charging 200, I expect he's doing a better job than the guy who's charging a hundred.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Are you consistently. But back to George's question. Are you consistently getting calls from the people you've already done this for, like every month they're calling you?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay. I would at least start with them and see if they can help you. Scale this thing with some word of mouth referrals. They get a little kickback, share it in their local Facebook pages. I'm telling you, there's a gold mine. Neighborhood Facebook page pages. You get people posting about you raving where they can't help but share. Oh my gosh. I ran into this guy Nathan. Does incredible work, very affordable. Reach out to him.

[Caller]

That's.

[Ken Coleman]

Somebody was raving on our neighborhood Facebook page about you the other day.

[George Camel]

Really? Yeah. That's odd. I'll find out more later.

[Ken Coleman]

We'll be back.

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[Caller]

From the.

[George Camel]

Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel, joined by my friend Ken Coleman and we're taking your calls at Triple H, 825-5225. Andy is in Greenville, South Carolina.

[Caller]

Up.

[George Camel]

What's going on, Andy?

[Caller]

Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

[George Camel]

Absolutely.

[Caller]

My wife and I, we are on baby steps 4, 5 and 6 and our current interest rate is right at about the rate of inflation. So my question is, should we continue with baby steps, baby step six and pay the mortgage off early or because the rate of inflation is canceling out the rate of our interest, can we just pay it off?

[George Camel]

It's canceling it out. You're not paying interest all year long. How much interest are you going to pay in the next 12 months? Have you calculated that?

[Caller]

No, I haven't calculated the total. We're at about a 2.6, 2.8.

[George Camel]

What's left on the mortgage?

[Caller]

100,000.

[George Camel]

Okay, so you're pretty close to knocking this thing out. What's your household income?

[Caller]

I'm self employed, so it varies, but I think last year was around 160, 180.

[George Camel]

Amazing. What's been your worst, your worst month or worst Year.

[Caller]

That been a long time ago, but probably 40,000.

[George Camel]

Okay, but that's unlikely. When you say it varies, we're not talking about it could be zero. It's a. Could be 140, could be 180.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Camel]

Okay, cool. What's the question behind the question? Because I don't think this is about the rate of inflation.

[Caller]

Well, no, I'm just, I guess, is my theory sound that the rate of inflation cancels out the rate, your interest rate, and essentially you are borrowing the money for free? Is that sound? And if so, wouldn't it be smarter to use the money elsewhere?

[George Camel]

There's the question.

[Ken Coleman]

That's what it is.

[George Camel]

The heart of it is, I want to do something else with this money. And paying down the mortgage is not exciting and it's a low interest rate, so why bother?

[Ken Coleman]

We've heard this a hundred thousand times.

[George Camel]

So let me just at least talk about the inflation part. Inflation is only really affecting how much things are costing over time.

[Caller]

Time.

[George Camel]

It's not affecting how much you're paying in interest. So now if you were saying, hey, the rate of my savings account, If I have $100,000 in a savings account making 4% and I have 100,000 I could put toward the mortgage and it's at 2.6%, wouldn't it be smarter to keep it in the savings account? That might be a better example, at least to crunch the numbers.

[Caller]

Right, Okay, I think I'm following you.

[George Camel]

So because the rate of inflation, again, it's not affecting how much you pay on your mortgage, it's not affecting how much you pay in interest. So it's not canceling anything out, you're still going to pay thousands in interest this year. So what you're really saying is I could use that money elsewhere and either put it in a savings account with a guaranteed rate of return, at least for now, or invest it with a variable rate of return, could be up, could be down in the short term, what would I do? I'm going to pay down my mortgage regardless of the interest rate. And that's what I've done and it's what we've recommended for decades now. There is no caveat in the baby steps that says, yeah, pay off your mortgage, except if you have an interest rate below 3%, then feel free to invest that money instead.

[Caller]

There's no caveat the interest rate is above 3%. It's that the inflation rate is also at 3%.

[George Camel]

And what I'm telling you is that doesn't affect your life and how much you're paying an interest in that mortgage is simply affecting how much things are costing.

[Caller]

Purchasing power. The overall purchasing power of my dollar is less. So wouldn't that mean that.

[George Camel]

Are you also investing 15% of your household income? I'm sorry, are you investing 15% of that 180 grand?

[Caller]

We're in 4 or 5 and 6, yeah.

[George Camel]

Great. So you are already beating inflation by investing. And so I don't want you to conflate the two things. We're doing three things at once with baby steps 4, 5, 6, 15% to investing. Got that down. Put some money away towards college. Got that down. And then baby step six has nothing to do with trying to beat the market, trying to beat inflation. Baby Step 6 is all about trying to get to freedom as fast as possible. And when you free up that mortgage payment, there is less risk in your life, there's more peace in your life, and there's a whole lot less interest in your life life. And so mathematically, depending on the time of day and the year, and inflation, we could always argue about the math, but baby step six has always been about way more than the math. And if you crunch the numbers, what could I then do if I invested that entire mortgage payment, that all of that principal and interest going towards an investment account, your mind will be blown. So I hope that.

[Caller]

All right, fair enough.

[George Camel]

But you're. I mean, as an intellectual conversation, I'm probably not equipped to fight about inflation versus the mortgage. I'm just telling you what I've done, what we recommend. And there has not been a caveat that I've ever heard where we go, well, if you can make more, go ahead and do that. We're always going to tell you to pay off that mortgage. And we always tell you if you regret it, you can always go back into debt. The bank will be happy to loan you money at a higher interest rate, of course, but I found that very.

[Caller]

Few people as y' all are financial experts. Is it true that the rate of inflation cancels out the rate, the interest rate? If you're.

[George Camel]

I've never heard this in my life.

[Caller]

Mortgage.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, you keep diet. You're doubling down on that one.

[George Camel]

Where did you even hear this? I've never. I didn't do. Was this a tweet or something? I was in a news headline.

[Caller]

No, I mean, I chat gbt. What would Dave say? And I thought I better call.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, let me. Let me flip it on. Okay, I want you to explain it to us as to how you believe the rate of inflation. And I'm assuming you're talking about the same thing that I'm thinking of. When we see the reports come out from the Fed and we see where, where inflation was over the last quarter, is that the same thing we're talking about?

[Caller]

Yeah. Okay. Interest rate or the, I'm sorry, the inflation rate is like between 2.5.

[Ken Coleman]

So you explain it to us. Because I mean, I'm confused how purchasing.

[George Camel]

Power equates to your fixed rate mortgage, right?

[Ken Coleman]

So explain how what you're paying in, in. In your interest rate on your loan, explain how you think that the inflation rate cancels that out.

[Caller]

Okay, wow. Well, I'm no financial expert. Let me start there. Not like you guys.

[Ken Coleman]

You don't have to be. You don't have to be to explain to me the very thing you're asking because we've already told you, George has said as a financial expert, he is one of them.

[George Camel]

I'm trying to hit it from every angle and I maybe I'm just still not understanding it.

[Ken Coleman]

So go. We got about a minute. Give us your best shot as to why you think it cancels it out.

[Caller]

All right. Well, the rate of inflation going up from where I initially got the mortgage. So my mortgage payment, the interest rate is equal to the rate of inflation. So the cost to rent the money, so to speak, to get the money from the bank to pay for the mortgage was set when interest rates were lower than what they are now, so. Or when inflation rates. So because inflation has gone up to equal to my interest rates. My question is, and I don't have an answer for this, my question is. Oh, we already told you, cancel out. Okay, well I answer your answer.

[Ken Coleman]

The answer is no.

[George Camel]

I had, I had your friend Chad GPT help settle the debate here. And it literally says these are apples and oranges. One impacts the value of your money, the other is the cost of borrowing. So they're not equal to each other. There's not really a direct correlation. And man, the time we spend arguing about this. You could have just paid down the mortgage, Andy. Simplify your life. Get off AI. Get in reality, with no mortgage payment, I think you'll like it better on the other side, my friend.

[Caller]

Friend.

[George Camel]

Thanks for the call. Fun discussion. My full time job is helping people make smart money decisions. But in my spare time, I'm a grill master. Okay, more of a semi amateur enthusiast. But you know what makes me get one step closer to pro level shopping at Aldi the other day, I threw some simply nature organic chicken on the grill. And ended up with a meal so good that even my picky toddler asked for seconds. Aldi has become my first stop for groceries because they've got it all from USDA choice beef to fresh organic produce. Everything you need to pull off a gourmet dinner without busting your grocery budget budget. So stop paying more and just shop at Aldi where you'll save with the lowest prices of any national grocery store. Find a store near you@aldi US that's a L D I.us savings based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability and the market. Aaron is in Spokane, Washington. Up next, what's going on, Aaron?

[Caller]

Hey, thanks guys for taking my call.

[George Camel]

Sure.

[Caller]

My wife and I purchased an IUL index universal life insurance policy when we were in our early 20s. I'm 29 now. Since I've been listening to your guys's show for probably, I don't know, the last month, I took a deep dive and see what, you know, what they're giving me their rates and stuff. And I saw that the money that I put in, it's been eaten up by most of their fees. Yep, that's IUL for a year. So, so I'm all in, you know, taking it out. I'll take care of this, you know, get the stupid money to get, you know, take away the fees that they're going to get going to take when I take the money back out. But I don't know where to put it and park it so that we can retire and a nice time period because I'm only 29. We started up the whole thing when we were 25.

[George Camel]

So what is your goal here? You want to cancel this policy? You figured out it was a ripoff and then you got scammed. I hope it wasn't from someone you like.

[Caller]

No, it was. I worked for the postal service and someone came in and sold it to us.

[George Camel]

Okay, did they sell it to other co workers?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Oh boy. Well, let's help get them out too while you're at it. Yeah. So what's it going to cost you to get out of this thing? And what will you get out of it when all said and done?

[Caller]

So right now it says $12,000 is how much I add into it right now. And it said if I take it out, the surrender money I would get is ten thousand five hundred.

[George Camel]

Okay. So essentially a fifteen hundred dollar penalty to get this money out. And you're willing. What they want is the sunk cost fallacy of, well, I Don't want to lose 1500. We might as well keep it around. Well, there is some cash value. Well, there is a little face value on the policy. What is the face value of the policy? The actual death benefit.

[Caller]

It would be 300,000.

[George Camel]

Okay, so you need more life insurance anyways.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And what are you paying per month?

[Caller]

I'm paying $240 a month.

[George Camel]

And you already have an additional policy?

[Caller]

My additional policy is. I think it's only like $15 a month, but it's for an additional 250, I believe.

[George Camel]

Is that a term life policy or a different type?

[Caller]

That's a term.

[George Camel]

Good. Okay. What do you make a year?

[Caller]

I made 62,000.

[George Camel]

Okay, so that means we need a much higher policy on that term life. We need at least 620,000. 10 to 12 times your annual income. I'd probably go for 750,000. It's going to be very affordable. As you can see. You're paying 15 bucks a month for 250. It's not going to go up that much to go to 750. So you can keep that one and get a supplemental policy for half million on top of that. That could be one way to do it. And you can jump onto Xander.com and get those quotes. Those are the folks we trust. The same people. I have my life insurance through, my wife's insurance through. And now on the other side, you're asking about building wealth. You want to retire one day and you were sold this as a wealth building scheme, I'm sure.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Okay, so we want to separate insurance and investing. Never combine them because then you have a product that does both things very poorly. So instead what I'd recommend doing is investing 15% of your $62,000 income into retirement accounts that are tax advantaged. Do you have one of those through the post office?

[Caller]

I do.

[George Camel]

What do they offer?

[Caller]

They offer 5%.

[George Camel]

5% match. Is it like a 403B? What's the retirement plan?

[Caller]

It's a. It's kind of like a 401k, but the federal version, it's called tsp.

[George Camel]

Tsp. There we go. Thrift Savings Plan.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So when you go in there to kind of match the four mutual funds we recommend there, you're going to have options of C, S and I. When you jump in that tsp, are you tracking. There's a lot of acronyms here. And so you'll do 80 and C, that's the common stock fund. And then 10% in the S fund, 10% in the I fund and that'll get you pretty close to that diversification. We recommend 15% going into there from 29 to 65. You're going to be a multimillionaire.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

You can crunch the numbers on investment calculator just to prove it to yourself. And then you have insurance on the other side to protect the wealth that you're building. And I think you've learned that lesson now. But so don't conflate the two. Make sure you have the right types of insurance in place. You can jump on to ramseysolutions.com checkup and we'll walk you through it to make sure that you have the right coverage. Not too much, not too little, not any crappy policies that you need to get rid of. And on the other side, you invest 15% of your household income for the rest of your career, you're going to be a very wealthy man.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Do you have any debt right now?

[Caller]

I already. What was that?

[George Camel]

Do you have any debt?

[Caller]

No, we're. No car debt, no credit card debt, and our house is almost about halfway paid off.

[George Camel]

Way to go.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Proud of you, man. That's awesome.

[Caller]

Yeah, thank you. I do already contribute the max 5% already into my TSP. So should I just take out that 240 that I'm contributing right now that's in my budget? Can I just put that in there?

[George Camel]

And do you guys have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses?

[Caller]

I have just about. We have about 15,000.

[George Camel]

Okay. So if you're there, if that's the number that gets you there, then I would up that contribution. You told me you're only investing 5% and we just covered that. Baby step four is 15%.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So you would triple that amount. You, you know, I don't know. If you jump online to your, your portal for the TSP and you just ratchet up the contribution from 5 to 15%.

[Caller]

Okay. And just keep it in that one. Don't do any third party outside of the, outside of my job.

[George Camel]

If 15% gets you there and it's a Roth tsp, do you have that option?

[Caller]

Yes, it's. It is. Whatever I contribute goes into Roth. But then whatever they contribute goes into traditional.

[George Camel]

That's right. Yeah. The match will sit on the traditional side. So yeah, if you have a Roth TSP and you go that, that split between the CSI 8000, 10, 10, 15. If you max that out somehow, if your income goes way up, then you can move on to, you know, a Roth IRA as well. That would be the next place to invest.

[Caller]

What. What would be the max that I.

[George Camel]

Can contribute to the tsp?

[Caller]

Like. Yeah, is there like a. Like a certain amount I can put into the Roth per year?

[George Camel]

The same as the 401k. So it'd be 23, 500 for this year.

[Caller]

Oh, okay.

[George Camel]

So you won't hit that, you know, investing 15 of your 62. That'll be nine, $300. Okay, so that's exactly what I do. Man, you're on the right track. You're doing a lot of things well. I'm sorry you got hosed by apparently a good salesperson selling this IUL at the post office. Do they just. Do they allow people to just solicit in there?

[Caller]

They have to go through a couple people to actually get in there, but I think it was just our management, and we're in North Idaho, so they don't really care.

[George Camel]

They're like, sure, come do a little lunch and learn. If you're providing free lunch, we'll listen to you. Is that how it went down?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I got a sense that there's not a lot happening at the post office in Northern Idaho.

[George Camel]

Like, this is juicy stuff.

[Caller]

We're pretty. We're pretty high up there.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, see, you made me think it wasn't that big of a deal. You were like, oh, they don't care.

[George Camel]

All right. Anyways, I tell management, don't let more insurance people in the door. Yeah, definitely think we're done with that. But thank you for the call, Aaron. It's a good discussion and a good reminder for everyone out there. Little teaching on insurance versus investing and any type of permanent life insurance, which is what Aaron just talked about. This indexed universal life insurance policy IUL. I did a whole video on this on my YouTube channel to expose it for the scam that it is. And every time I do this, Ken, guess who's coming after me? The IUL salespeople are very aggressive in the comments section, saying, this guy doesn't understand. It's great. A lot of wealthy people use this. And I'm going, not the ones that I know, not the smart ones. And so you got to be careful out there. Never mix up your insurance and investing. Never combine the two. Anything that's sold to you as an insurance plan and an investment scheme is just that. It's a scheme, and you should run. Run far away. So what do you do instead? Get a term life policy level term life, which means you're going to pay the same payment every month. You're going to get way more bang for your buck. It's not going to have the cash value portion that they tout. You don't need that because you're going to build your own wealth wealth by investing 15% of your household income into those tax advantaged retirement accounts. And if you do it the right way, you do it that way, you're going to pay a fraction of the price for your term life and you're going to build some serious wealth with compound growth with way less fees. So I hope that makes it simple for anyone that doesn't have a term life policy. Jump onto Zander.com, get it done today. This is how you tell your family I love you. If something were to happen to you, you how would they replace your income? What are they going to do instead of just grieving now they're in a financial bind. So getting that in that term life policy 10 to 12 times your annual income 15 to 20 year term is great for most people because if you follow our plan for 15 to 20 years you become self insured, the house has paid off, you've had decades of compound growth. Your family's going to be just fine.

[Advertiser]

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[George Camel]

Fairwinds is federally insured by the ncu. Hey, if you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, you got to join one of our free everydollar trainings. There are new trainings every week this month. They're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. And we're going to show you how to stick to a budget and find $9,000 of margin. That's right. Using EveryDollar so that you can get out of debt and start building wealth. Plus, you can ask us any questions during the live Q and A. Again, this is all virtual. You can join us from anywhere. Sign up for [e-mail] webinar.

[Ken Coleman]

It's free.

[George Camel]

You got nothing to lose. If you don't like it, just hop on off. You only lose a few minutes of your time, but most people stick around the entire time. And then I jump off, and our team's still there answering questions.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you think, George? Of all the coaching you've done in this area, you've done these webinars, you've done our live streams. What do you think are the top 1, 2, or 3 reasons why people have a hard time making a budget work? Oh, I've never asked you that before.

[George Camel]

It's a great one.

[Ken Coleman]

It's got to be something that you think is a root cause.

[George Camel]

Well, I think there is a. There's. I think, number one, it feels overwhelmed. They think, well, I'm not the type of person. I'm not a spreadsheet guy. Yeah. So there's overwhelming, and then there's fear. There's fear of what they're gonna see because what we're doing with the budget is holding up a mirror. Hey, this is what you look like. This is your financial reality. And most people don't want to look under the bed and find the boogeyman, but once they do, it's actually. And you know this, once you face that fear and just do it, you go, oh, that wasn't so bad.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And so I think they're overwhelmed. There's fear. And then it feels like one more thing to add to their stre and anxious plate.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[George Camel]

And they're. They don't want to screw it up.

[Ken Coleman]

That's good.

[George Camel]

And they think they can't stick to it. It's too much work, too much time. I don't have the time to deal with.

[Ken Coleman]

So if that's you listening to George going, that feels right. Kick the tires, do this free training.

[George Camel]

It's been eye opening because we asked the question, how long have you been living this way? Paycheck to paycheck Stressed, anxious, and most people say most of my adult life.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. It's all they know. Their nervous system has actually been reconditioned to feel that stress.

[George Camel]

Yes, it's bad. So if you want a way out, we'll show you. And it's been very empowering, encouraging. To see the results here. Go to everydollar.com webinar. Join us for the next one. I'll be doing a few a month. All right, Peter's in Tucson. Up next. What's going on, Peter?

[Caller]

Hey, gentlemen. Thanks for taking my call. How y' all doing?

[George Camel]

Doing great. How can we help?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah. So my wife and I have been living with our in laws for about nine months and we're just looking to. We want to get our own places as soon as we can, and we're open for. For advice.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

So you've been living with her parents?

[Caller]

Yes. Yes, sir, her parents.

[George Camel]

For the specific purpose of saving up money.

[Caller]

Saving money and paying off debt. We just became debt free in May.

[George Camel]

Awesome.

[Ken Coleman]

Congratulations.

[Caller]

Yeah, thanks, guys. We're just fully focused on saving for this down payment.

[George Camel]

Do you have your emergency fund fully saved up yet?

[Caller]

We do. Run baby step three. Bravo. We got 15,000 savings. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Cool.

[George Camel]

How much are you saving per month toward this down payment?

[Caller]

Well, so we're bringing in about 8,600amonth. And we usually put away anywhere from three to three and a half thousand into savings.

[George Camel]

Hold up. You're telling me that even living with your in laws, your expenses are still five grand a month?

[Ken Coleman]

I saw this code.

[Caller]

Yeah, well, no, we, we only. Our monthly expenses are 810. We, we give them some money for rents and then we have our subscriptions and a storage unit in Texas where we used to live.

[George Camel]

But you said you're putting 3,500 in savings, right?

[Caller]

Yeah, anywhere from three to 3,500. Yes, sir.

[George Camel]

But you're making 8,600amonth take home. Did I hear that right?

[Caller]

Yes. So, yeah, 2,000 of that is. Sorry, Stephanie. 2,000 of that is my wife's paycheck. And then that goes right into savings.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, but George is wanting to know where the rest of that money's going. He's starting to. I'm just starting to break out hives over here.

[George Camel]

You make 8, 500, you're putting 3,500 away. Where is the other $5,000 going? So far you've laid out some rent, the 810.

[Caller]

Yeah, well, majority of that time we were putting all that to the debt to pay that off. So the last two months we did some traveling and then we had our six month car insurance.

[George Camel]

Okay, so you've had some expenses come up and some, some entertainment. You know, you guys are debt free now. There's nothing wrong with going on vacation. But here's, here's what I'm getting at. I have found that most people who say, hey, we're going to live with the in laws to save some money, what ends up happening is they get comfortable, they increase their lifestyle and that goal is going to be seven years of living with the in laws. So that's what I want to know. Is there an exit strategy to go?

[Caller]

No. Nope.

[George Camel]

We are going to have $50,000 saved for our down payment within 12 months and then we are getting out.

[Ken Coleman]

What's that actual number? What's the number you're trying to save for down payment? And when do you think you'll get there?

[Caller]

Yeah, well, we want to put down about the least we can, 3% just to get into the market. So we want to have about 28,000 to include closing costs to have a nice buffer for an emergency fund. So 28,000 number we're looking for.

[George Camel]

How much amount down is not a good financial strategy. Can I just tell you, in any area of your life.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So does that mean you're going to have a mortgage payment that's far more than 25% of your take home pay?

[Caller]

Well, because we'd have PMI on top of that. I mean, we wouldn't want anything that's more than, you know, 2,000amonth for a mortgage.

[George Camel]

That's what I'm saying. The higher the down payment, the lower the mortgage. So if you're putting very little down, that means you're likely going to have a gigantic mortgage that's more than a quarter of your take home pay. That's what I'm getting after.

[Caller]

Gotcha. Yeah, but you know, nowadays, I'm sure you guys know that would take us, you know, years to get to that 20% for the down payment.

[George Camel]

How old are you guys?

[Caller]

24.

[George Camel]

Oh my goodness. Well, you're on your deathbed, I guess. Let's hurry it up.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, hold on, I gotta dive into this, I gotta dive into the years thing. All right, so let's run through the numbers. What's. What, what expense are we looking at on a house? What do we, what are you guys looking at?

[Caller]

At anywhere from 280 to 300,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, let's take the high number. Okay, let's take the high number. You're Going to buy a house for 300,000. Okay, 20% of that is what? 60,000.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

You're tracking with me basic math here.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so 20% down payment on a $300,000 house is 60,000. Okay. You said you wanted to save 28 at a 3%. And what George is saying is that's not a good idea. Your reply was it'll take years for us. Well, the gap between 28 and 60 with your income is actually not that much.

[George Camel]

And my guess is you're going to do 3% down on a 30 year mortgage. Yes, that's an accurate guess. Okay, so here's the, here's the deal. So far you were following the Ramsey plan and now you turned it into a choose your own adventure, which I have no problem with. I'm going to sleep well at night no matter what you do. I just want to see you in. So if you're following the Ramsey plan, we would Recommend Only a 15 year mortgage where your payment is no more than a quarter of your take home pay. So you guys make 8,600amonth. Are you doing any investing right now?

[Caller]

We're doing a Roth ira. We're putting a small amount just because we're prioritizing saving, putting a small amount month into that.

[George Camel]

Okay, so when we say 25% of take home pay, what we're talking about is after taxes but before any other deductions like retirement or health care premiums. So that should help your numbers. Let's call it $9,000 then.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Okay. So divided by four, 2250 is, is what you're aiming for with that 15 year. So if this was a $300,000 house, to get to 2250, we would have to put down ready for it, about 70 grand. All right.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Camel]

So $70,000 becomes the magic number instead of as little as we can put down. So now let's talk about the 70 grand. Currently you have nothing saved for the down payment. We're just getting started. Started?

[Caller]

Yeah. We have 15 grand in savings. Take away the 2,000 that for the emergency fund. So about 12, let's say, well, you.

[George Camel]

Need, you need at least 15 for the emergency fund, so let's not touch that. Do you have any money outside of that right now?

[Caller]

Not currently.

[George Camel]

Okay, so let's say we're starting from zero. We need to save up 70 grand and you can put away $5,000 a month. You tracking with me that is 14 months from now? We are. We have 70 grand ready for the down payment and we can move, not years.

[Caller]

Gotcha.

[George Camel]

So that is, that's how specific I want you to be with an exit strategy. And truthfully, I would, I would say let's do a year max and really hunker down and save up to 70 grand in a year.

[Caller]

Okay. Yeah, yeah. Tighten the hatches.

[George Camel]

Yes. Well, that's the only way I would stay in the scenario. I would not stay in the scenario going well, once we have the down payment, maybe we'll get out of here here.

[Ken Coleman]

But and if I'm you, I'm wanting to get out of my in laws house as soon as possible, man, you're.

[George Camel]

Still, you're still paying a grand. I mean, you might as well get your own place and pay an extra grand and slow down your house down payment by a few months. That's all it's going to do.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah. Right. Okay. All right.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Well, thanks for the insight, guys. Appreciate it.

[George Camel]

Absolutely. Hey, I'm rooting for you. I'm not trying to dog on you. I just want to see you in and I want a very clear plan, an exit strategy here so that we don't turn this into a hammock. This is the Ramsey Show. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell joined by Ken Coleman. 888-825-5225 is the number to call if you want to join the conversation. Hey, are you staying on track with the baby steps? As you've heard from some callers, some people tend to veer off the path. And so if you want to get back on it, you want to check your progress, you can take a quick quiz and receive a personalized plan just for your. You simply head to the show notes and click on the link titled are you on track with the baby steps? And complete the quiz. And before we get to the calls, Ken, we have a special announcement to make.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I'm very excited.

[George Camel]

So you have a show called Front Row City that has just blown up in the last few months.

[Ken Coleman]

A lot of fun. It's a deep dive conversation show and we have a live audience. The audience gets to sit in the interview and actually sit around me and.

[George Camel]

The guest, hence the name.

[Ken Coleman]

Hence the name. And they get to ask questions. So I wanted to tell our very large audience, if you're going to be in town July 16th, that's a Wednesday.

[George Camel]

So if you can be in the Nashville area, Nashville area.

[Ken Coleman]

At our headquarters, George Camel is joining me as my guest on the show. If you're a big George Campbell fan, you want to meet George, ask Him a question. We're going to be having a really fun deep dive around money and myths and winning financially. It's at 1:30. You'll actually 1:30 central time. You can sign up to be in the audience by going to Kencolman.com show show pretty simple. Kencolman.com show if you're gonna be in Nashville or you're close enough that you want to come up for this, people.

[George Camel]

Have made the drive from, you know, Kentucky, and who knows, People drive in.

[Ken Coleman]

From all over the place. So there it is. I'd love for you to join us.

[George Camel]

Don't embarrass me, guys. I want there to be a wait list. I want it to be packed out. I want there to be, you know, standing room only.

[Ken Coleman]

George's fragile ego needs you to show up.

[George Camel]

Four people show up. I'm out. I'm not doing the interview.

[Ken Coleman]

We won't. We'll actually. We'll cancel it.

[George Camel]

Let's be honest. I would do this in a closet to nobody. So it's fine. Lot of we're gonna have a good time either way. But we'd love for you to join us. Kencolman.com show if you want to be a part of that live audience, Connor's up next in Indianapolis. What's going on, Connor? How can we help?

[Caller]

Hi, George and Ken. Thank you for taking my call. I guess I'll give a little backstory first. So my wife and I got married seven months ago. We're from the Boston area. Shout out to George. Yeah, and. And, you know, coming into the marriage, I was debt free. And she had an amalg of student loan debts, credit card debts, and some medical debts that we decided, you know, once we got married, we were going to go score strength on our debt. And so part of that is that my wife is a medical professional, and we decided to travel nurse. And so we moved out to Indianapolis, and she's travel nursing. It's cheaper to live out here. She's making more money. I switched professions on making more money. But one of the student loan companies, it was a private student loan with citizens. They reached out to us because we were trying to refinance with wirefi. And so after four months of not paying citizens, Citizens reached out to us with a payoff offer that's 45% of the total value. And they said they consider it paid in full. I'm looking for some advice on how to talk to debt collectors and whether or not that's a good deal, I guess.

[George Camel]

Well, number one, you sign on the dotted line for the full amount. And so that's what the amount you owed. So I wouldn't be looking for a good deal. This isn't Black Friday. We're not shopping for TVs. So as far as a good deal goes, you know, the longer it sits out there, the better chance you have of settling. But if they're offering 45%, I'm going to take it. Because you're saying it hasn't gone to collections yet.

[Caller]

So the collections department emailed us and said that they would do 41 of.

[George Camel]

The student loan company, that's Citizens.

[Ken Coleman]

I was thinking the same thing, George. That's a sweetheart of a date deal.

[George Camel]

So it hasn't actually gone to like a. A debt collector has not bought this debt from Citizens yet.

[Caller]

No, a debt collector hasn't bought it from Citizens yet. It's just in the citizens collections department.

[George Camel]

That's impressive that they're even offering this because usually what happens is they go, you can't pay, it's going to collections. Collections comes after you now. Collections, they, they buy it for cents on the dollar. So you probably have a better chance dealing with collectors. But I would not just let it go to collections hoping to save a dime. I would pay that amount 45%. What is that amount?

[Caller]

$51,000.

[George Camel]

Okay, and how much do you guys have right now that you could liquid make? Liquid cash?

[Caller]

We have $5,000, but we talked to our bank and they will give us a personal loan for $51,000. Connor, over a five year term.

[George Camel]

We're going to go into debt to pay off the other debt so that we have a new debt.

[Caller]

So the way that I thought about it is I heard you guys talk about if you have a car that you're underwater on, sell it and sign a note for the difference where this would be $60,000 less than the initial cost. I didn't know if that was what you would recommend or not.

[George Camel]

Now a car loan and that would be a very different scenario because you have a depreciating asset here and we're trying to get out from under it. And instead of being in 25 grand of debt, we're in 5 grand of debt because we got rid of the asset. So your student loans would be very different. So what I would do is say, hey, we have this, this is how much money we have right now. Would you be willing to allow us to pay this over time for that 45% of value or is it lump sum only? Have you got clarity on that?

[Caller]

Yes, it's only lump sum only. They offered us a pay over time of 67,000 over the course of a year and we can't afford to make those payments.

[George Camel]

How much do you guys make a.

[Caller]

Year combined right now? So I'm in. I'm working in sales. So with my base, our combined salary take home is 140.

[George Camel]

Okay, but that only includes your base, correct? What? I mean, I'm assuming you're going to make some commission. You tear, you aren't terrible at sales.

[Caller]

The thing is, I just don't know what the commission is because I just changed career direction when we moved out here to Indiana. And so I don't exactly know how much I'm going to bring home because I've been doing sales.

[George Camel]

Sure. But I'm telling you, hey, if we sold like our life depended on it, could we make 200 and knock out this debt in less than a year?

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[George Camel]

And even making 140, is this all of your debt or is there other debts hanging around?

[Caller]

There's other debts hanging around as well. There's a government student loan that's 32,000 and a credit card that's 12,000.

[George Camel]

Okay, but you've been, you're behind on this private student loan. Are you current on the rest?

[Caller]

We're current on the rest. We had tried to refinance with why retail, and so that's why we're behind on the private student loan.

[George Camel]

Okay, well, I would definitely hunker down and focus on that debt because it sounds like it's about to go to collections, which is just going to add pain and misery to your life. Can you make minimum payments on the rest of the debts while attacking that collection debt aggressively? Yes, I would do that. And I would take their deal of 45%. Make sure you get it in writing and don't give them access to your checking account.

[Caller]

Account.

[George Camel]

That's, that's the deal here. So you can give them, you know, a cashier's check money order, but we're not going to do our prepaid debit card. That can also be a good option. But don't give them electronic access to your account.

[Caller]

Yeah, of course. Okay, got it. Thank you.

[George Camel]

Yeah, good luck, man. You got a battle ahead of you. But we got to change our mindset around this. Instead of going, hey, is there another type of debt I can use to pay off this debt to make me feel better? The debt is the debt. And so switching it around, moving it around, playing a shell game, it'll make you feel Better temporarily, but it doesn't solve the problem. Yeah. All right, let's go to Nicole in San Antonio. Up next. What's going on, Nicole?

[Caller]

Hi, Ken. Hey, George.

[George Camel]

Hey.

[Caller]

I just. I'm. My spouse and I, we are in baby step two. We bring them about 8,000amonth, and we're ready to become debt free. And we're really just stuck right now, and we're unsure of what our next step should be. We have $11,000 in crypto, and then we have $50,000 in a rental property. And. And we're about $98,000 in debt.

[George Camel]

What kind of debt is that?

[Caller]

So we have 2700 in hospital bills, 4100 in consumer debt, 32,000 in a car loan, and then 59,000 in student loans.

[George Camel]

What's your household income?

[Caller]

We bring home about 96 a year.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, tell us about that car. That's a lot of car. That's a lot. What's her car worth?

[Caller]

Her car is probably worth about 20 grand.

[George Camel]

And you owe 32.

[Caller]

Yes. We were actually upside down on another car and we had to get out of it because it was. There was like maintenance problems on it. So we ended up just.

[George Camel]

You rolled over the negative equity?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Seen this, Seen this play before. It's not a fun one.

[Ken Coleman]

What's that? Car payment every month.

[Caller]

So we just refinance it and it's about 5, 20amonth.

[George Camel]

Okay, and what are you wanting to do? What's your question today?

[Caller]

So my question is, should we sell the crypto again? It's like 11 to 12,000. And then just pay all that to our debt? Or could we sell our rental house? Someone's in it right now, and they're going to be in it for the next. Till next August. We make about 5.90amonth off of it, but we just put that in savings in case something happens, like AC goes out or something.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I would get out of the rental game. You might look into how you could get out of the lease and get the tenant out of there asap. And I would liquidate the crypto. You are not in a place to be investing. You're not in a place to be rental gurus. You got to get out of a hundred thousand dollars worth of debt. I would likely try to sell that car, too, and save up the difference. You're underwatering. It's going to be a journey to get there, but you can do it.

[Advertiser]

Hey, everybody. Our summer Black Friday sale is here. Here's how it works. Each day this week has A new deal. This isn't just random stuff. It's the books, merch and products that help keep you fired up for your goals. They give you the encouragement and hope you need. So if you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, now's the time to get tools that really work. Check back daily so you don't miss the deals. Go to ramseysolutions.com store today ramseysolutions.com store.

[George Camel]

From the Ramsey Network. This is the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel here with Ken Coleman and the phone lines are open at 888-825-5225. Ken will help you make the most income possible with work that you love. And I'll tell you what to do with it once you have some. Diego is in Newport beach to kick us off this hour. What's going on, Diego?

[Caller]

Hey, George. Hey, Ken. How are you doing today?

[George Camel]

Doing great. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing fairly well myself. Thank you guys for taking my call. Just a little backstory before I get to my question. I'm 23 years old and my wife is 25. We have recently just gotten married. And I mean recently as in like two weeks ago.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey.

[Caller]

Yes. Very exciting, very blessed. And she, she's amazing. I'm a very lucky man. But my question is coming down to finance. We are both debt free. She's a public school teacher and I'm a pharmaceutical sales rep. Moving forward, how do we combine our finances into one? We both agree that's what we want to do. I'm just struggling to really get the logistics of moving over into one account. Do I keep my prior investments in a separate. I just need a little bit of backstory or advice on how to do that moving forward. Forward as well. I know this might be a two part question, but as well, the proper way to start saving for a house. You go the mutual mutual fund route or just throw money in a high yield savings.

[George Camel]

You're asking the right questions. I love it. Congratulations. Okay. And I'll, I'll make this as simple as possible. And I'll tell you what I did. I had a checking account and I made it a joint account. So I didn't even switch the numbers. It's the same account number. I just made it a joint account at my bank and added my wife to it. And then my wife, we just transferred the money from hers into that joint account and we shut her account down. So we have One joint checking account, and we have one high yield savings account, and that's where we keep our emergency fund. You can create a little separate high yield savings. But either way, every single account that I have is joint. So her name is on it and my name is on it. So that's what you do going forward.

[Caller]

Credit cards as well?

[George Camel]

Well, I don't, I don't believe in credit cards. Cards. Like I don't believe in the tooth fairy. So what we're saying is. Yes, everything is.

[Ken Coleman]

Why do you have to bring the tooth fairy into this?

[George Camel]

I'm just letting people know I got.

[Ken Coleman]

Kids listening to this.

[George Camel]

I didn't get any money from the tooth fairy.

[Ken Coleman]

Now that explains it.

[George Camel]

So. Okay, I got gypped is what I'm saying. But anyways, yes, everything in your life would be together. So her name would be on it. Your name would be on it.

[Caller]

Okay. And then definitely helps.

[George Camel]

Yeah. As far as your, you're saying the house savings goes, is this something that is in the near future, like two years, or is this more like five, six, seven years?

[Caller]

It would hopefully be in three years. And I would love to put 20% now, being in Newport Beach, California, are. Yeah, it's a little rough out here. So the average house is around 1.2 million. If you take 20% on average, it's around 240, 260. She makes 85,000. I make 70, plus $20,000 commission. I don't plan on staying in this position for another two years. I look to get a salary increase.

[George Camel]

Pharmaceutical sales, I feel like should start at six figures. But it sounds like you're just getting into it, correct?

[Caller]

Yeah, I just graduated college about a year ago, so it was anything I could take and very lucky. But in terms of what I want to do, I wanted to do a 20% percent down payment. Now, I earlier heard you say putting over for a 15 year mortgage. How come not a 30 year fixed rate?

[George Camel]

Well, our goal here with the Ramsey crew is to get out of debt as fast as possible and stay out of debt. And so the options here in America are generally 15 and a 30 year. And what we found is 30 year mortgages have over double the interest because there's usually a slightly higher interest interest rate on a 30 year versus a 15 plus you have it for twice as long. And some people fool themselves into thinking, well, I'll just take on the 30 and pay it like a 15. Rarely does that happen because there's something called human nature. And human nature says, I'd rather not put it toward the mortgage. So the 15 year is sort of a forced savings plan. That means no matter what 15 years from now, let's say you buy it in two years, you're 25 at that point point. Well by the time you're 40, no matter what happens, you have a paid for house in California that has been appreciating for 15 years. And so that's the, that's the reason is a huge savings on interest. It's a forced savings plan that gets you through the Ramsey plan faster.

[Caller]

Okay, that definitely that makes a lot of sense too because I always thought keeping at a fixed rate would make it easier in terms of dealing with finances. But human nature does seem to always fixed.

[George Camel]

Right. It's a 15 year fixed rate versus a 30 year fixed rate. So it's the same thing. It's just cutting your time in half which does increase your payment so will be a higher payment. But that's a good thing because it means you're adding way more to the principal, knocking that out faster instead of sending it to the lender through interest. Because if you go look at the amortization schedule, you'll compare the two. You'll go oh my goodness. For the first 10 years I'm paying this 30 year mortgage, almost none of it is going to principal. I'm paying thousands to the lender. And so the goal is to get out of debt as fast as possible, pay as little interest as possible possible. And it's the only type of debt we don't yell at you for. And what I would do is just park it in a high yield savings account with a three year timeline. It's not long enough to to have some serious compound growth in the market and you could lose money in a time frame that short.

[Caller]

That is true. And then I guess should I still keep investing then in a mutual funds like I currently use Vanguard their S&P 500 and then the Vanguard Total Stock Market which is the vti. I use the I. And then should that just be just for personal use?

[George Camel]

Well are you guys investing for retirement outside of that?

[Caller]

So she has a 403B because she's a public school teacher and then she has a pension when she retires and she contributes 10% of her paycheck for me. I have a 401k, my company matches up to 9%. I currently put 12% and then on top of that I have a Roth ira. Oh great. So I kind of. We both have our retirement kind of our already handled. I guess I was just really Confused on using a mutual fund to.

[George Camel]

I guess, Yeah, I mean, you could, you can have like a taxable brokerage account and just invest there. But we look at that as a longer term play if you're going to be investing in a taxable brokerage account. So if it was parked there for like five years, I would say it's a good move. Anything less than 5, I start to get a little shaky on. But you'll likely be okay. You're, you know, you got an index fund there, so it's very diversified. It's not risky like a single stock, but you're still in the process. When you go to close on that house, that market could take a dip and your stomach will go with it.

[Caller]

Yeah. And then I always hear you guys mention an emergency fund. What is the appropriate timeline? I know everyone kind of varies between three and six months. Now, with us being combined finances, does that still look at like a higher price point?

[Ken Coleman]

No, it's still.

[Caller]

How do you guys, how do you guys measure that?

[Ken Coleman]

So you take your combined household income, okay. And now you're going to take three to six months of that. So it's just simple math. Divide your total income by 12 and let's get a three month number, a four month number, a five month number, and a six month number. And then it comes down to your discretion. We just give you a ballpark between the three to six months, three months of your income being a minimum.

[George Camel]

So if you make, you know, five grand a month, your expenses are five grand a month. Six months of that would be 30 grand. So that should be your goal. And that comes before you save up for a down payment and before you invest. So get that done asap. If you don't have it already, then get back to it.

[Caller]

Well, thank you guys. I appreciate your time. Enjoy the rest of your day.

[George Camel]

Hey, congrats. Yeah. I'm going to send you Financial Peace University as a little newlywed gift from Ken and I. Is that okay? Ken, I don't want to put you on the spot. Are you willing?

[Ken Coleman]

I am very willing. Very willing.

[George Camel]

I want to see a young couple win. And this guy's got a good head on his shoulders. Very smart man. I can tell based on the conversation. Just need a little bit of guidance to go. Okay, what's the next step? What's the next step? You're asking the right questions, Diego. Wishing you guys the best.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[George Camel]

Hey, George, Camel here. So you're thinking about buying or selling your home? It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's real estate home base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love? So if you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals, go to ramseysolutions.com real estate. That's ramseysolutions.com real estate. Buying or selling your home is a big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to find the best deal for the right price. And the Ramsey Trusted program is the only way to find a top agent you can trust who will help make your home a blessing, not a burden. And make sure that you do it the Ramsey way. It's easy. You compare agent profile files, interview them and choose the one you want to work with. Find a local Ramsey trusted real estate pro for [e-mail] agent or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Nick is in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. What's going on, Nick?

[Caller]

So I am about $30,000 in debt right now on a pickup truck and then in addition to that, currently owe about $15,000 to an attorney for ongoing litigation that I'm going through right now. And I just, I just curious how do I balance paying my attorney with trying to snowball the pickup truck?

[Ken Coleman]

Tell us more about this ongoing, that's the part that concerns me. Ongoing litigation. What's happening?

[Caller]

Well, it's, it pertains to custody of my son. Me and his mother split up and she is currently going through active addiction. So it's not, not something I'm willing to compromise on. It's that I need to have him. And that's it.

[Ken Coleman]

Is there? Yeah, we've, we've taken a lot of these calls and what I have learned is sometimes these things go on and on and on. Is there any sense of how much longer this, this is going to play out?

[Caller]

Well, I, we have a hearing coming up I think in October and it's, they're ready to put a final order in on it because it's just drug on for longer than it should have.

[Ken Coleman]

Feel pretty good that October is going to be.

[George Camel]

There's a finish line.

[Ken Coleman]

Here is a finish line. No more attorneys fees.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Is there one other Question on this. Is there any. Is there any sense or a way of knowing. Knowing how much more you'll have to pay your lawyer in between now and October?

[Caller]

Well, if. If nothing pops up, then it should be minimal.

[Ken Coleman]

That's what I was wondering.

[Caller]

Okay. It's. If something does pop up, then we have to go back to motions court, and that's. That's where it gets expensive.

[George Camel]

Okay. All right.

[Ken Coleman]

Thank you for giving us that. That helps us a little bit.

[George Camel]

So you currently owe the attorney 15,000?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay. What is the current conversation been about payment and when you're gonna pay that? Like, are you just racking up a bill that eventually they're like, hey, this, You're. Oh, this is all owed up front now?

[Caller]

Well, it's. They've been letting me pay as I can as I go along, but it's. It's just getting to the point where I'm looking at the zeros on the end and getting a little nervous. And it's. They're doing the work. It's. It's only right that I pay them for the work.

[George Camel]

But it sounds like you. How much are you paying them currently if you're 15,000 in debt?

[Caller]

Well, I was. I was paying about 2,000amonth. And then back in February, I wrecked my last truck. I had no choice but to go out and finance one because I had burned through my savings paying the attorney off. It's just.

[George Camel]

Well, let's make it clear. You. You had a choice. You could have chosen a $5,000 pickup truck. You chose a $30,000 truck.

[Caller]

That's correct.

[George Camel]

Okay, I just want to make our language clear because I think that's what partially has gotten into some of this mess.

[Ken Coleman]

What's your income?

[Caller]

I was right around $100,000 last year.

[Ken Coleman]

And for how long were you paying $2,000 a month? Because that tells me. Well, sorry, how long were you paying? 2,000amonth. And then were you pulling that out of savings or was that a part of your normal income and you were cash flowing the 2000?

[Caller]

I had about $10,000 in savings. I burned through that when I was cash flowing the rest.

[Ken Coleman]

So. Okay, so how much could you pay a month after you've paid all of your bills? What is your margin to be able to put towards all of this debt together.

[Caller]

After. After I pay all my bills to pay the attorney. Just to pay the attorney.

[Ken Coleman]

No, I'm saying what's left over your.

[George Camel]

Minimum payments, your truck payment, and you pay your bills, your food, utility, shelter, transportation, insurance, what's left at the end of the month or what should be left.

[Caller]

Between.

[George Camel]

If your expenses are 25 over time.

[Caller]

I work.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so 2,500 to 3,000. So let's. Let's operate, George off that low.

[George Camel]

That's enough to cash flow the rest of the attorney fees.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Correct.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay, so let's focus on that. You're in a storm right now, and so you don't need to be aggressively trying to pay off debt. We just need to avoid getting into more of it.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, is there any other debt besides the truck?

[Caller]

No, no, I had. I've never really.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, let's look at the truck really quick.

[Caller]

That's all.

[Ken Coleman]

You just recently bought the truck? Yes.

[Caller]

About six months. Five. Six months ago.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, give us the. Give us. We know you owe 32 on it. What could you sell it for?

[Caller]

I'd have to run blue book on it, But I'd imagine 32, maybe.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Close to what you paid for it, George.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm wondering, because. What's that car? What's that truck Payment every month?

[Caller]

About $800 right now.

[Ken Coleman]

That's a raise, my friend.

[George Camel]

That's a.

[Ken Coleman]

That's almost a $10,000 raise. George, I'm wondering, do we not cash flow a 5 or $6,000 SUV or truck, just something to get the pay raise immediately of that truck payment back, and we wipe 32,000 off the books. And now, now he cash flows at 15 pretty darn fast. He's also a pretty able guy. Probably could do some side hustle work. That's what I'm prescribing.

[George Camel]

I like this plan. If you can work it out with the attorneys to have this paid later. I don't know what the current process is for payment, but if you can pay what you need to for the attorneys right now, and then anything above that, put in savings so that you can cash flow a car, then we can get out from under this truck. Okay, because that's killing you right now. What do you need a $30,000 truck for? Right now?

[Caller]

I don't really need a $30,000 truck. The last truck, I got tired of going to the parts store every. Every week and spending.

[Ken Coleman]

I get it. But you look at the big picture, I'd rather deal with the nuisance of putting duct tape, if you will. I'm using that as a metaphor on a car that we're not chucking $800 a month out because. Listen, let's just fast forward for a moment. I want you to picture having no debt, not owing Your lawyer, anything, hopefully your son, full custody. Hopefully all that works out, and you have no debt, no truck payment, and no lawyer fee hanging over your head. And you're making really good income. I want you to fast forward to that moment. How does that look to you?

[Caller]

Say it looks like sitting on cloud nine.

[George Camel]

Well, then you have like four grand a month cleared up. I mean, you would have so much cash flow and margin.

[Ken Coleman]

A lot of cash flow margin.

[George Camel]

I.

[Ken Coleman]

That's the play, man.

[Caller]

You're.

[Ken Coleman]

Listen, here's why I would say George and I would give this advice to anybody who called. But for a guy who's in a fight with his ex, who's dealing with substance issues, and this is over your son in custody, man, that I can't even.

[George Camel]

The stakes have never been hired.

[Ken Coleman]

I can't even try to put myself in your shot shoes. But I do know that it is really hard on you mentally and emotionally. Just that situation alone and the debt on top of it. And so here's the deal. Life already sucks for you, doesn't it?

[Caller]

Yeah, it does.

[Ken Coleman]

So here's my point. Let's go ahead and embrace the suck and knock out the debt. And so when we hopefully clear this relationship. Relationship hurdle, now we're also debt free pretty shortly thereafter. I just think now's the time to bite the bullet here.

[George Camel]

Yeah, think about that. I mean, you. You get rid of that car payment, all that's left is the 15k. You start chunking three grand a month toward it. You're done in five months with this attorney fees, you're completely debt free.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So think it. Your life's going to look very different six months from now. And so it's hard to see the force from the trees right now when you're in the thick of it. But, man, I see a very different future for you just in the early part of 2026.

[Ken Coleman]

And Nick, I would tell your lawyer this sounds like your lawyer's a good person and already working with you. If you were to describe what your plan is, as George and I have laid it out, I think that's going to take some pressure off of you as well, because they're going to go, oh, dude, good, man. I'm good. I just think that'll help you as well because I understand the weight of that. Owing something to somebody who's helping you with the biggest thing in your life.

[George Camel]

Yeah, man, wishing you the best with this little legal battle that is not fun. But there, there's hope on the other side for you, my friend.

[Advertiser]

Hey, Everybody, our summer Black Friday sale is here. Here's how it works. Each day this week, new deal. This isn't just random stuff. It's the books, merch and products that help keep you fired up for your goals. They give you the encouragement and hope you need. So if you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, now's the time to get tools that really work. Check back daily so you don't miss the deals. Go to ramseysolutions.com store today ramseysolutions.com store.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[George Camel]

The Ramsey Show Question of the day is brought to you by why Refi? If you're ready to stop drowning in private student loan debt, why Refi throws you a rope? Talk to Y Refi to see if refinancing your defaulted loans with a low fixed rate is an option for you. Visit yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter Y. R-E-F-Y.com Ramsey may not be available in all states.

[Ken Coleman]

Our question today is from Marco in Arkansas. I'm in.

[George Camel]

Sorry. How to do it.

[Ken Coleman]

I like that. Didn't we just meet a family from Texarkana, Arkansas? We did in the lobby. Oh, there they are right there. Very nice. Marco says I'm in Baby Step 2. With $10,000 left to pay off, I'm ready to go all in by working 2 full time jobs until I get through baby step 3. I'm worried that my kids will be affected by dad not being around as much. Should I go through this to benefit, to benefit us in the long run or am I going to cause damage to my children and potentially my spouse, even though she's on board with my plan. I make about 100,000 at my current job.

[Caller]

Job.

[Ken Coleman]

What? You're not gonna damage your children. They probably aren't even old enough to know that you're around. You know, it kind of goes like this. I have. So I'm on the other end of the spectrum of George. George is just getting started and I'm, I'm, you know, like I see empty nesting.

[George Camel]

It's in your near future.

[Ken Coleman]

It's, it's there.

[George Camel]

It's another millennium.

[Ken Coleman]

Boy, oh boy, am I excited about it. I love my kids, but I gotta tell you, it's, it looks nice. Anyway, point is, is that I feel like there's a season where the kids, they have no concept of time. You know what I mean? They're babies so they don't even know what's going on. Then they're toddlers, can't appreciate what's going on. Then they're like elementary. Yeah, they're fine. You know, they're. They're fine.

[George Camel]

And.

[Ken Coleman]

And then you got this like maybe second, third grade, they start being aware mom and dad aren't around, whatever. And then they become middle school and you don't want to be around them. And then they become teenagers and they don't want to be around you. So I just want to give some perspective here as a guy who's in this. Marco, you're going to be fine. It is definitely if they got to see a little bit less of dad for a season, as long as they understand why to the ability that they can understand. If they can't understand it, it doesn't matter if they can. I think they're really going to appreciate it. They'll get it and everything's going to be okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And based on his language here, he's saying, I'm ready to go all in. It sounds like this has been stressing him out and he's wanting to get rid of it fast. And here's the thing. A stressed dad, a stressed mom is not a present dad.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, they feel that.

[George Camel]

They feel it. And so I'd rather you not be around them. If you're like a live wire because you're so stressed out about your money, I'd rather you be at work working to clean this mess up. And the other thing is the math ain't mathing for me. You got 10 grand to attention pay pay off. You make a hundred grand at your current job without the two full time. Why is it going to take you so long that you think you're going to cause trauma to your kids? How you're going to be doing this for three years. I think you could clean it up with the current income. If you just got your expenses down, you can get out of 10 grand of debt and save up another 25 pretty quickly making six figures. So I don't know that your plan is necessary. I would like to see what we can do on the expenses side before we go to up the income income. But either way, if this is a short period, like six months to go hard at this, your kids will be like, wait, what happened when I was 2? I don't have any recollection. Not, not, not ringing a bell.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So I wouldn't worry about it. But way to go, Marco. For being willing to go all in and having a spouse that's on board, that's a good sign. Sarah is in Boston. Up next. What's going on?

[Caller]

Sarah Hi, George. Hi, Ken. Thank you so much for taking my call.

[George Camel]

Sure.

[Caller]

So sadly last month my mother in law passed away way and she left. Thank you. Thank you. She left two paid off properties to my husband and his two sisters. And the siblings have agreed to sell the primary residence, but my husband wants to keep the other home. It's a small cottage on Cape Cod and he plans to use his share of the primary home sale to buy out his sisters.

[George Camel]

Cool.

[Caller]

So, yeah. But my dilemma is emotionally my heart and my husband want to keep this Cape house. But my logical side says that we should probably sell both properties to pay off our mortgage faster and then become completely debt free. What is flexible to get your advice.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, thanks for the call. So faster. Give us a real specific idea here. In other words, words, if you don't sell these homes and put it all on your mortgage, how, when do you anticipate paying off your primary home?

[Caller]

So we only bought it about two years ago, so we're looking at another 13 years or so. Hopefully quicker.

[George Camel]

But that's if you put nothing extra toward the principal though, right?

[Caller]

Yes, exactly.

[Ken Coleman]

What's your income?

[Caller]

We make around 310,000 a year.

[George Camel]

What's on the mortgage? What's left?

[Caller]

560.

[George Camel]

Okay, so I'm trying to find a compromise here and I think I have one. What if we keep the cottage but we agree to a plan to then pay off this home more aggressively.

[Caller]

I surprised by that plan, but I think that sounds.

[Ken Coleman]

Why are you.

[Caller]

I think.

[Ken Coleman]

Why are you surprised?

[Caller]

I thought we were going to be told to sell everything and pay off our primary.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, you're not in any kind of dire situation.

[George Camel]

You're not broke. You make $300,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Guys are killing it.

[George Camel]

This is really an inheritance that he's just sort of rearranging.

[Ken Coleman]

And here's the, here's I, I loved George and I, of course this is all live. I didn't know, I didn't know what he was going to say.

[George Camel]

Usually I disagree with Ken and I'm the more aggressive one and I'm actually pretty relaxed.

[Ken Coleman]

I couldn't agree more with George.

[George Camel]

I want to be in this cottage in Cape Cod.

[Ken Coleman]

I do too. That was the first thing. I was like, a cottage in Cape Cod doesn't come along very often. Was a B.

[Caller]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

You told us that both you and your husband's hearts were in the cottage. You were like, we love it. And that was B for me. That was like, oh, there's the one, two punch. And then when I got the rest of the story. I, I, I, again, we always try to give advice on what would we do if we were in your shop shoes. And that's what I would do. I would keep this cottage and have fun with it. Make memories. It's an asset. I love the idea of him buying out his siblings. I think that's great. You're cash flowing that I just don't see any reason to not take this opportunity.

[George Camel]

What's your mortgage payment every month?

[Caller]

It's around 4,000.

[George Camel]

Okay, so making $310,000. Amazing income. Could we throw another four or five thousand a month at this point? Could we just double it?

[Caller]

We, we could definitely take a look and get there.

[George Camel]

I think if we looked at the budget and sit down with your husband and go, okay, here's the deal. I called the Ramsey show. Here's what they said. We get to keep the cottage, but we pay off this house in six years.

[Caller]

Yeah, I think he would be completely on board. He's gonna be thrilled.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm gonna throw a possibility that again, I wouldn't do. So I want to say that I do this and you'll understand, but you could do it. You guys could. If you own that cottage free and clear now, you're not going to be up there vacation all the time. You could rent that and take that income and put it into the primary home and really speed this up. In other words, let's, and I'm, this is way low, but let's say you cleared 50,000 on that cottage from renting it and you put that towards your primary home home just in one year. I mean, that's a pretty big chunk. I would consider that.

[Caller]

I don't think we have considered that. Yeah, we've considered renting because realistically, we'll probably only be there four weeks.

[George Camel]

Again, it's something I wouldn't, I would want it to keep it as mine. And it's, I don't want people ruining my rental. But if you guys feel good about it, there's nothing, you're not violating any principles. And it's a, it could be a wise thing to do if you can make money off of it and it's paid for. So there. You're not trying to like arbitrage. Arbitrage. And you know, well, they're paying the mortgage for us. You're, you're covering the expenses just fine.

[Ken Coleman]

So the only other thing I would add to that is George and I would like the option of having a friends and family discount on said cottage.

[Caller]

Yes, we have done that. In the past, there was a lot.

[George Camel]

Of hesitation there for the camel.

[Ken Coleman]

I think she thought I was serious. I was kidding. I would never do that. I'm just a joke. It was a bad joke.

[George Camel]

We're not gonna pay full price.

[Caller]

Invited anytime. Come on down.

[George Camel]

No. Love it. I love this plan, and I think I do, too. Go use our mortgage payoff [e-mail] and start to have some fun and dream with your husband. And go. Okay, if we did an extra four grand a month, we doubled the payment. We could pay it off in, like, six years. And likely what happens is you paid off in four or five because you guys are so focused with one singular goal. And I think that's. That's the key here. You be in agreement about every single decision and find some compromise. That's okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Your husband's gonna be thrilled. I'd get him some turtlenecks, maybe some chowda, you know, how do you say it, George?

[George Camel]

That was pretty close.

[Ken Coleman]

Not bad.

[George Camel]

Yeah. I mean, Sarah doesn't have a thick Boston accent, so. No, I feel like you're at least thicker than hers.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, good.

[George Camel]

I do like a thick chowder, though.

[Ken Coleman]

I do, too.

[George Camel]

Thank you, Sarah. Wicked. Good call. This is the Ramsay show.

[Caller]

Sam.

[George Camel]

Our scripture of the day. Ephesians 2, verses 4 and 5. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions. It is by grace you have been saved. Jordan Peterson said, it is my firm belief that the best way to fix the world, a handyman's dream, if there ever was one, is to fix yourself. There we go.

[Ken Coleman]

Classic Jordan Peterson. He interrupted himself in the middle of that. It's a handyman's dream.

[George Camel]

It's a beautiful mind in there. Yeah. You know, I tend to do the same, Ken. We're on the same level of genius.

[Ken Coleman]

And it's interesting that anytime I see anything on social media of you or Jordan Peterson, I think of the other.

[George Camel]

Thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

It's a symbiotic relationship.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, you are an intellectual heavyweight.

[George Camel]

What can I say?

[Ken Coleman]

You're no paperweight.

[George Camel]

My rabbit trails are next level. It's genius. It's not a waste of time at all.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. I feel like this is going to be a very interesting call coming up.

[George Camel]

I'm nervous. Let's get to it. Rebecca is in Portland, Maine. How can we help?

[Caller]

Rebecca, hi.

Thank you for taking my call. So my boyfriend and I have been together for 11 years. Living together for six. I do live with him in his home that he owns. He no longer has a mortgage payment. When we moved in together, we did open a joint account and we just picked a random number that we would each put into the account each week that basically just covers utilities, the taxes.

[George Camel]

What kind of sick game is this? You choose a random number. What is this, Powerball?

[Ken Coleman]

Hold on a second. It can't be random if it is designed to cover utility.

[Caller]

So we agreed each to put $350 a week. So $700 goes into the account each week. That covers the cost of all of the utilities, the taxes on the house, our groceries come out of that. And then, you know, if we go out to eat, we pay for it out of that account, but we have our own separate accounts that we pay for vehicle payments, insurance, cell phone, stuff like that.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so what's your question?

[Caller]

So my question is, recently my boyfriend would like to make some upgrades to his house. Replacing all of the windows, there's a retaining wall that he would like replaced. And he feels that I should pay 50. 50 with him.

[Ken Coleman]

He wants you to pay 50% of this.

[George Camel]

I'm sorry, he wants you to pay.

[Ken Coleman]

50% of those expenses.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Ken Coleman]

And he owns the house free and clear.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Ken Coleman]

This is the weirdest relationship I think I've heard about in quite some time.

[George Camel]

So let me rephrase this. My landlord wants me to pay for his home upgrades and renovations.

[Ken Coleman]

And oh, by the way, we got a little something working on the side. This is like a friends with benefits gone awry.

[George Camel]

Yeah, this guy hates commitment until it benefits him financially.

[Caller]

Yeah.

Thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, let me ask you a question because we're on Team Rebecca, because as you called, so we start out on your team. You guys have been together. Did you say 11 years? And you've lived together for six?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so why isn't he putting a ring on your finger? What is going on here?

[Caller]

Oh, he actually did propose to me six years ago.

[Ken Coleman]

And you said.

[Caller]

I did say yes, but it really has not gone further than that. We did.

[George Camel]

Wait, so are you engaged?

[Caller]

Yes. We did have a couple little bumps in the road, so it just kind.

[George Camel]

Of of cuz you said boyfriend, which tells me it's not a fiance.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree.

[George Camel]

The language matters here.

[Ken Coleman]

I think there's a statute of limitations on this.

[George Camel]

I'm not sure either of you see each other as marriage material. It sounds like this is an okay roommate situation at best. Do you want to marry this guy? Oh boy. If there was that level of hesitation with My wife. I'd be sleeping on the couch.

[Ken Coleman]

You do not have to say enough another word. We already got our answer. Are you wearing the ring?

[Caller]

I am not.

[George Camel]

Okay, so there's a sunk cost fallacy. If I had to guess. You've been together 11 years. It's what you know. And it's just easier to do life with this person than to break free.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Is that correct for both of you? Probably.

[Caller]

Yeah. That sounds pretty accurate.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Also, I think the conversation changes, so let's answer your initial question.

[Caller]

No.

[Ken Coleman]

You can tell this guy to pound rocks. You guys have had some fights before. This is a. This is a relationship that has zero future. Unless something dramatic changes. That's what I've heard.

[George Camel]

And tell them, I'm not going to put money into a house that I don't own.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

It's that simple.

[Caller]

I agree.

[George Camel]

What is your share of equity in this home that you've built together and done renovations and repairs on? It's zero. Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

If he gets pissed off and. And kicks you out tonight, you're in trouble. As far as place to live, my.

[Caller]

Honestly, I'm more concerned about if something happens to him. If something happens to him, I have nowhere to go. I mean.

[George Camel]

What do you mean, if something happens?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. This is turning into a Lifetime movie. Should we have the ominous music playing right now?

[Caller]

I mean, I'm 46. He's 50. I mean, I just. I'm thinking about my future, and if something happens, whether it be, you know, we break up, I. Yeah, I mean, I'm 46. I would like to have, you know.

[George Camel]

What are you wanting out of life? Do you want to be financially independent?

[Caller]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[George Camel]

Are you. Do you have any debt?

[Caller]

Just a car payment.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

What is your income and what do you do?

[Caller]

I am a dental hygienist.

Great.

And last year I made 76,000.

Okay.

The year prior to that, it was 72.

[George Camel]

So you can move out today and get a place on your own. Just Fine.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. Now, you do not have to answer this, but I think you're ready to answer it because we've already asked you, do you want to be with this guy? And it was like cricket. Okay, so what is keeping you from breaking up with him or at least just moving out? You know what? Never mind. I. I think I know what the answer to that is. Let me ask a different question. If he broke up with you today and said, we're done, how would you feel about this?

[Caller]

That.

[Ken Coleman]

Be honest.

[Caller]

I. So I think that I do have A little bit of a dependency. You know, we've been living together for a long period.

[Ken Coleman]

I know. I want you to tell me the real answer to that question. I know why I changed my question. And you thought about it for a second, which tells me I've done this a long time. You had an answer. You just don't want to give it to me. So then you went into politics. I want you to answer the question as you just answered it in your head. If he broke up with you tonight, what would be your real emotion? And if it's two or three emotions, just lay it out there. I'm going somewhere with this. So hit me. What would it be?

[Caller]

I would be afraid.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. What else?

[Caller]

Overwhelmed.

[Ken Coleman]

Good. What else? Be honest. After we got through that, the initial would be afraid. We talked about that dependency. You've been with this guy a long time. But what would be the other emotion that would be after that? Say it.

[George Camel]

We know. You know.

[Ken Coleman]

Say it. Just say it really quick. We got to go. Say it. What is it?

[Caller]

I mean.

[Ken Coleman]

I think you'd be relieved, and I think you're afraid to say it.

[George Camel]

You would feel free. You would feel free.

[Ken Coleman]

You would feel this weight lifted off of you to go, yes, I'm scared of the future and I'm overwhelmed. But good gosh, this feels good. And I'm not trying to break this relationship up, but I think you got to listen to your heart and you need to get out on your own. If this is guy woke up and smelled the coffee and changed towards you, maybe there's a future. But I think you got to move out. Go all.

[George Camel]

I'm not saying he's a terrible person and you're a gem of a human. I'm just saying I think we've run its course with this relationship and it might be time to part ways. As hard as it may be. This is the Ramsey Show. What if you could watch the Ramsey show before anyone else? Well, good news. Now you can. For the first time ever, you can stream the show a day early in the Ramsey Network app. That's tomorrow's episode today. Real calls, real answers, real fast. Fast. It's free, it's easy, and the content might just change your life. So search Ramsey Network in Google Play or the app store or click the link in the show notes. You never know what calls coming up next.