Are You Willing To Trade Your Comfort Today For Peace Tomorrow?

Summary

The Ramsey Show — Episode Summary

Episode Title: Are You Willing To Trade Your Comfort Today For Peace Tomorrow?
Date: November 10, 2025
Hosts: Ken Coleman & Jade Warshaw

Episode Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show dives into the heart of how today’s sacrifices and discomforts create a foundation for lasting peace and financial freedom. Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw, with signature warmth, humor, and candor, field live calls on tough money decisions, address the emotional truths behind our financial habits, and break down the steps to break free from debt, emphasizing how short-term comfort can undermine long-term well-being.

Listeners hear the emotional side of money—how fears, habits, and family relationships impact decisions, and how to reframe sacrifices as trades for a peaceful, debt-free future.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Comfort Today vs. Peace Tomorrow: The Opening Theme

• Ken and Jade jump in with high energy, emphasizing their roles as everyday people helping listeners break free from “normal” (i.e., debt-filled) living.
• Ken: “Normal is broke and common sense is weird. That’s why we’re here to help you transform your life.” (00:13)
• Central concept: Trade present-day convenience, luxury, and emotional security for a more fruitful, stress-free tomorrow.

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2. Family Businesses & Life Decisions

Noah’s Dilemma: College or Family Business?

• Noah (Detroit caller): Debates leaving a mechanical engineering degree to join his family's successful machinist business, mainly for higher earnings.
• Ken probes: Is it a “head” or “heart” decision?
• Ken: “What I don’t want is for you to wake up 15 years from now… and inside your soul has seeped out of your body because you took a smart financial choice.” (03:08)
• Jade urges Noah to consider his own fulfillment.
• Noah admits his real dream: “I’d go be a cattle rancher.” (07:31)
• Ken gives Noah four vital research questions:
  1. What do I need to learn?
  2. What do I need to do?
  3. How much will it cost?
  4. How long will it take?
     (07:52)

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3. Sacrifice & Patience: Practical Debt-Free Living

Sheldon’s Car vs. Debt Decision (Salt Lake City)

• Sheldon and wife: One car family, $13,500 in student loans, considering a second car after job change and relocation.
• Jade shares her own story: “We were a one-car family for a decade… learned how to make it work.” (14:15)
• Ken reframes inconveniences like long commutes as “penance” and motivation for fast debt payoff.
• Ken: “Where there’s a will, there’s a way. That is grandma wisdom.” (16:52)

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4. Emotional Side of Money & Jade’s New Book

• Jade’s new book, What No One Tells You About Money, gets highlighted.
• Core message: Money is emotional. Past experiences, job loss, divorce, or shame affect how we use/spend money.
• Jade: “Let’s work through the emotions. Let’s accept our role, whether it was tiny or really, really big.” (23:18)
• Ken: “If we can change the way we feel… only then can we change the way we act.” (24:17)
• Book aims to address emotional blocks and accelerate debt payoff.

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5. Tough Marital Money Questions

Taylor’s Marital Debt Debate (San Antonio)

• $440,000 debt: Mortgage, student loan, business loan.
• Taylor wants to pay off debt; her husband prefers investing dividends.
• Jade: “All good ideas, but they must be prioritized in order of importance… let’s get that tool [income] back in our hands.” (29:56)
• Priority: Knock out all business and student loan debt first, then use freed-up cash flow to invest and pay off mortgage.

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6. Family Pressure, Guilt, and Boundaries

Nikki’s In-Laws & Real Estate Tangle

• Nikki’s in-laws want her family to sell their home, build her in-laws a new one with proceeds, and get the bigger family home free.
• Jade & Ken: “Leave and cleave”—set boundaries, don’t take on family financial obligations out of guilt.
• Jade: “There’s a family guilt here… you know the right thing to do.” (36:12)

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7. Healthcare Cost Crisis

McKenna's Doubling Health Premiums (Salt Lake City)

• Family premiums jump from $500 to $900/month; income is $5,000/month.
• Advice: Shop around, compare employer coverage vs. marketplace, use a broker.
• Jade: “It’s likely going to go up. You’ll have to adjust your budget or look for higher paying work.” (39:00–40:00)

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8. 401(k) & Retirement Savings versus Debt Temptations

Kimberly's Found 401(k) and $80k Debt (Houston)

• $111,000 in forgotten 401(k), but $80,500 in credit card debt.
• Ken & Jade: Don’t cash out retirement; roll over to IRA and use income and side hustles to pay debt. Avoid desperation or “easy button” solutions.
• Focus on discipline, budgeting, and maximizing income. (47:00–52:00)

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9. Addiction, Trauma & Overspending

Brianne’s Spending Addiction (Portland)

• Fast food and gifts lead to $90,000 debt despite $4,800 monthly income.
• Jade recommends accountability via a friend, automate bills, and physically limit access to cash/cards.
• Ken: “You’re way tougher than a lot of people—harness that.” (69:47)
• Ken emphasizes shifting from emotional comfort spending to focusing on the harm it does for herself and her daughter.
• Jade outlines a strict practical plan: “Automate your bills… let your accountability buddy go with you to the grocery store and gas station.” (76:13)

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10. Big Picture: The Affordability Crisis & Social Trends

• Ken addresses rising millennial support for socialism; not to debate politics, but to note economic roots:
  • Student debt crisis
  • Skyrocketing tuition
  • Housing unaffordability (avg. first homebuyer nearly 40 y/o)
  • Escalating healthcare costs
• Ken: “They have never experienced positive capital… capitalism feels like it hasn’t worked for them.” (59:15)
• Solution: Unify across party lines to demand policy change on these three affordability issues.

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11. Marriage & Money — Combining Finances, Prenups, and Boundaries

Allen’s Second Marriage Planning (Dallas)

• Both parties are financially independent, each with children and property from previous marriages.
• Question: How to combine finances without endangering trusts/legacies?
• Jade’s suggestion: Protect pre-marriage assets for heirs (prenup/trust is fine), but all new life/income together should be "ours,” not “yours/mine."
• Ken: “If you have trust issues [with combining money], you shouldn't get married.” (91:09)

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12. Difficult Marital Trust Issues

Sharon's Secret-Spending Husband

• After years of separate finances, Sharon discovers her husband co-signed a $20k+ car loan for a colleague with addiction.
• Jade: “You need a counselor mediating this… I’m hearing a woman who’s almost done.”
• Ken: “He’s an unhealthy pleaser. He needs to please you, his wife, more.” (124:15)
• Action: Seek counseling, have tough conversations about boundaries, repair trust before focusing on debt solution.

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13. Closing Inspiration: Debt-Free Scream

• Thomas and Amy, Ohio: Paid off $138,661 in 5 years, with income rising from $101k to $143k.
• Used SmartDollar through employer, intense side hustles, and strong communication.
• Biggest lessons: “You have to work the program for it to work.” – Amy (111:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ken: “What I love so much about you and Sam is that you figured it out… ‘Where there’s a will, there’s a way!’” (16:52)
• Jade (on sacrifice): “For today, I’m trading something I want now for something I want most—a future without stress and debt.” (19:37)
• Jade (on spending addiction): “You gotta find a way to lock yourself out [of your money] … until you work through the trauma.” (76:13)
• Ken (on political/economic unity): “If anything unites the American people, it’d be those three issues [student loans, affordable housing, healthcare].” (62:23)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:13 — Episode intro; comfort vs. peace theme
• 01:28 — Noah’s family business dilemma
• 06:04 — Noah’s true dream: cattle ranching
• 10:34 — Sheldon asks: Pay debt or buy car?
• 16:52 — “Where there’s a will, there’s a way” wisdom
• 21:34 — Emotional side of money; Jade’s book
• 25:42 — Taylor: Invest or pay off massive debt?
• 33:01 — Nikki: Real estate, in-law pressure, and boundaries
• 36:46 — Healthcare premiums double—what now?
• 44:16 — Kimberly: $80k debt, found 401(k), what to do?
• 65:48 — Brianne’s overspending & trauma call (spending addiction)
• 54:20 — Ken addresses affordability crisis/socialism stats
• 86:11 — Allen: prenups and remarriage money management
• 119:19 — Sharon: husband's financial infidelity
• 106:44 — Thomas & Amy’s debt-free scream

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Takeaways & Action Steps

• Sacrifice comfort now to win real, lasting freedom tomorrow.
• Debt-free living is achievable for everyone—no matter the mess.
• Prioritizing debt payoff over comfort/convenience leads to financial peace.
• Emotional pain and trauma often fuel money struggles—work through both, not just the numbers.
• Family boundaries are necessary; don’t let guilt drive poor financial decisions.
• What No One Tells You About Money—recommended reading for anyone battling the emotional side of money.

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Episode Tone & Closing

Every call is handled with empathy, urgency, and a dose of tough love. Ken and Jade cheer on wins, challenge deeply-rooted habits, and never shy from hard truths—always framing even the toughest sacrifices as a hopeful step toward peace.

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For more guidance and tools:

• Free budgeting app: EveryDollar.com
• New book: What No One Tells You About Money by Jade Warshaw (RamseySolutions.com)

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“Remember, there’s ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that’s to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.” (126:12)

Transcript

[Narrator/Announcer]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Ken Coleman]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. That's why we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. 888-255-225 is the ph/8825-5225.

[Jade Warshaw]

I got.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm gonna warn the audience. This is a good warning, but I got a little extra juice today. So as a man of the people and alongside the most fly co host a man could have, Jade Warshaw.

[Jade Warshaw]

What a high honor.

[Ken Coleman]

Ken, you got the. You got the Lulu sweatsuit on in full effect. If you're not watching, you need to head over to YouTube because I always say she's fabulous. And today you put the all caps fab in there.

[Jade Warshaw]

So mess around and drown the late.

[Ken Coleman]

80S early 90s tracksuit vibe.

[Jade Warshaw]

Something going on.

[Ken Coleman]

So you're ready? I don't even have to ask, are you ready? I thought I was, and then I walked in. I think I had a little extra juice now, so a little, little, little extra energy. And I'm excited about it because Noah starts us off in Detroit, the Motor City, the home of my mother, Barb. How about that? I love Detroit. Let's go. Noah, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hey, Ken, how are you doing?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, you can tell. A little fired up today. How can I help?

[Caller]

I'm looking for some advice. I'm in my third year of college right now going for a mechanical engineering degree, and I'm wondering if it's time to maybe switch pads and go into the family business and stop pursuing mechanical engineering.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, now I'm going to get right to this. Is this a hard question, Noah, or is this a head question? And let me explain before you answer, if it's a heart question. Not too long in the past. You started thinking about the business, the family. You want to be a part of the legacy. There's something pulling you in, and it's a positive emotion. Or if it's a head question. I got into college, pursued mechanical engineering. I don't think it's my jam. Not sure what I want to do. Jade.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

I think I'll do a fallback because I know that the nest is warm. So with that being a probably too long setup. Noah, is this a head question or a heart question?

[Caller]

So I think it's more of a. I think it's more of a head question, but I'd say I wouldn't be doing it as A, As a fallback.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

It would be more of looking at it as, you know, I've kind of thought of the business maybe as, as it would be a fallback, but I'm looking at my parents and they're doing really well from the business and doing well than I think I would be able to do as an engineer and thinking that, you know, that could be, could be an opportunity that I look past.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. I appreciate the honesty. I really do. And I'm going to, I'm going to challenge this. I don't. First of all, this is not a bad decision. You know, head, good head decisions work out. The reason I always delineate it that way, Jade knows this is because what I don'. Want is for you to wake up 10, 12, 15 years from now and you're running the family business. And it's been great financially.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, come on, Ken, get into it.

[Ken Coleman]

You know where I'm going.

[Jade Warshaw]

I do know.

[Ken Coleman]

And you're doing well. You serve mom and dad well. They're, they're proud of you. You got a good life, dare I say, great life on paper. But inside your soul has slowly seeped out of your body over the last 15 years because you took a sound, a smart financial choice. That's why I always put it out that way. So again, okay, if you go do it, but understand that you're going to have to make, if you make that choice, you're going to have to make some other choices to say then, all right, I'm going to make sure that I'm serving in my local community. I'm going to find something outside of the family business that lights my heart up and so that I am experiencing meaning as a person, not just a professional who's killing it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Otherwise you'll have that unfinished business when you look up. Yeah, I mean, what kind of work is the family business? What type of job would you be doing specifically?

[Caller]

They run a machine shop. So it's a smaller, smaller machine shop, about four employees, including my dad and my mom.

[Ken Coleman]

And what do you think you would make? You said that the real primary reason for this is because he goes, I'll make more work in the family business running the family business than I would as a mechanical engineer.

[Jade Warshaw]

A lot more.

[Ken Coleman]

I was going to say, what are the numbers? What are you running? What's the difference?

[Caller]

So starting out, I mean, I would probably make similar to what I'm making now at my part time job in like the low 20s. But I know that their profit is around 300,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wait a sec, wait a sec.

[Ken Coleman]

He's got a part time job right now in school.

[Jade Warshaw]

But would you be making the same amount doing the same part time work, or would it be full time that you'd be making the same amount? Does that make sense?

[Caller]

No. Same amount, like per hour.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Okay.

[Caller]

So. But that's just starting out. But you know, I think starting out as a machinist, it would probably be similar pay. I just, I think that the opportunity for, for the, for that pay to increase is, is a lot bigger in the own, Your own business.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. Okay. So you were listening to Jade and I, I was preaching. She was amening and I appreciate that. By the way, how did you receive that? You're a young guy, your early 20s or is that right?

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm 20.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, so what are you thinking long term? When I said that, did it register? And what was your head response? What was your heart response?

[Caller]

My heart response was that I think, I think no matter what I do, whether I did engineering or worked at the machine shop, I think that I would have to find that fulfillment outside of work.

[Ken Coleman]

Yep, I, I had that sense.

[Jade Warshaw]

Let me ask this question. What if you, let's pretend you get off this call and you're like, you know what? I'm going to work for the family business. You start working five years from now, you look up and you say, hey, this is just not hitting the way I thought. What would happen with the relationship dynamic? Let's play that out. If you were to go to mom and dad and say, you know what? I know I'm here. I know you guys depend on me. I got to go my separate ways. How do you, how do you foresee that, something like that playing out, would it mess up the relationship?

[Caller]

Oh, no, I don't think so. I think if, if I. Without me stepping in and sort of trying to maybe become like the next generation, I think they would probably end up closing when they retired anyways. So I don't think it would strain the relationship.

[Ken Coleman]

Just for fun. Okay. And just for fun, I mean this. What would you pick? Just, just as a big professional, we. If I told you that you would be successful at it right now, what would you do? Not mechanical engineering, not running mom and dad's shop. What would you do? You like that?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I do.

[Ken Coleman]

I do that on purpose. Take you to a happy place, what would you try? If you knew you couldn't fail and you knew you'd be successful at it and you knew you could change your mind, what would that be? Fill in the blank. Go.

[Caller]

Oh, instantly I'd go. Go be a cattle rancher.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, my God. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

I should have asked this question a lot sooner. All right, so we got about a minute. Here we go. Really quick answers. What's keeping you from pursuing being a cattle rancher?

[Caller]

I think the unknown. I don't know anyone who's done it.

[Ken Coleman]

You ready? I got to give you four questions. You got something to write with?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Here we go. Four questions you got to answer in the next week. And this will take away the fear of the unknown. Number one, what do I have to learn? That's what's the qualification process to eventually become a cattle rancher? What do I need to do? What's the experience piece? The first one is the education question. What do I need to learn? Second is what I need to do. That's the experience piece. I've got cart out on the ranch, right? The whole nine yards. What do I got to do to get in? Third question is, what is it going to cost me? What is that? Education and experience. The first two questions, what is it going to cost me? And then based on the cost, Noah. Fourth question is the expectation question. How long will it take? So here we go. Quick review. A lot of people need this today. What do I need to learn? What do I need to do? How much will it cost? How long will it take? Jade, let me tell you something. Those four questions take away the fear of the unknown and it helps you decide to move forward.

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Ken Coleman]

All right, let's go to Sheldon, who's joining us now in Salt Lake City. Sheldon, how can we help today? Hi.

[Caller]

How you guys doing?

[Ken Coleman]

Good. What's going on?

[Caller]

Good, good. Hey. So, yeah, I just had some crazy life changes in the past couple months. To put it shortly. I've. I've been married, graduated, graduated college, had a death in the family, and then now laid off of a job, so.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, my gosh.

[Caller]

Yeah, things have been kind of crazy.

[Ken Coleman]

I know. What's the time period on this? Like, just a couple months.

[Caller]

Yeah, just within. Just since May.

[Ken Coleman]

When did you get laid off? When did you get laid off?

[Caller]

I got laid off about like a month ago.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, man. I'm sorry.

[Caller]

What?

[Ken Coleman]

Where. What? Laid off from doing what kind of work?

[Caller]

So I got laid off from machining. I was in the manufacturing industry.

[Ken Coleman]

Interesting. And what are you doing now?

[Caller]

So right now, this kind of leads into my question. So I recently just got a new job as a quality engineer in Salt Lake City. So my wife. My wife and I are going to relocate down there. And we're wondering. Just because we're relocating, our only car broke as well. So we just got a new car or. Sorry, we already had the. We already had her car, but my car broke down.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

We just have one. And so we're wondering, since we're on baby step two, we want to pay off my. My student loan debt, but we also kind of need another form of transportation just in case this one takes. So we're wondering if I should pay off my debt first or get a new car.

[Jade Warshaw]

So she. There's one car. Family. It's her car. How old is it? Tell me about that car.

[Caller]

The car we have right now is a 2005 Toyota Corolla.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, that'll run till 3000 year. 3000?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do you have any problems with it now or is it running just fine?

[Caller]

It's. We have to replace the Cadillac converter on it. But we've been replacing so much stuff the past. Yeah. A couple weeks. So we're like, we hope it. Because it should. It's a Toyota. It should be good, right?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. I mean, it's going to need maintenance. You're going to have to replace things over time. 2005. But do you feel like when you took it and it needed the work and you did the work, do you feel like that was the end of the laundry list? For now?

[Caller]

We hope so. We hope so, yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And have you gotten to Salt Lake City yet? You're there or you're about to go?

[Caller]

No, we're looking for an apartment now.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you need a second car? I think I know the answer, but I have to ask.

[Caller]

Yeah, so with that, like, we're trying to find a place that I could possibly commute, you know, using the uta, the tracks or something like that. So, um, so but with the place that we're at now, it, it'd probably be an hour, give or take, if I did take the tracks. Okay, so it might.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And how much student loan debt do you have?

[Caller]

I have 13,500.

[Jade Warshaw]

Anything else? Any other types of debt? Credit card debt, personal loans? Anything else?

[Caller]

No, just the 13,000. Yeah, we've been following the debt snowball, so.

[Jade Warshaw]

Good. That's where I know, you know, you might be talking to the wrong one. Because when my husband and I paid off, we're working to pay off half a million, we sold our car and we were a one car family for a decade. And you just learn how to make it work. And I'm going to tell you why I did it because my sister started it by being a one car family and they had two kids and they did it. And I said, well, if they can do it, then we can do it. And we kind of just got used to how things ran and it was a decade before we got a second vehicle.

[Ken Coleman]

You did it for how long after actually paying off debt?

[Jade Warshaw]

Seven, six years.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. That blows my mind, by the way.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's great because I knew at that point you know how to prioritize and you know what's important to you and you go for that. So for me, I'm going to tell you, I'm like, figure it out. Do one car until you pay off this 13,000. It's not that much. What are you going to be making at this new job?

[Caller]

So with this new job, we're, we're going to be making 72,000. Listen, this new one, so how quickly.

[Jade Warshaw]

Can you pay off 13,000 with you doing a new job, maybe picking up a little side hustle, maybe your wife doing a little something on the side as well. How quickly could you do that?

[Caller]

Yeah, we'll probably do it pretty quickly. A couple months.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Then you can save up cash and you can buy something in cash. And then of course, you know how it works. You save up some cash, maybe you buy yourself a little beater, five or seven thousand dollars. And then the way this works, guys, when you buy cars that are that cheap, by the way, Ken, they're not losing a lot of value super fast. They're kind of worth what they' worth.

[Ken Coleman]

At that point, 100%, you know, and.

[Jade Warshaw]

Then what happens is in a year, you save up a little bit more, you put it with that cash, and now you're driving a $10,000 car, and if it's a priority, you save a little bit more and you put another 3,000. Before you know it, you're driving a $13,000 car. That's how this works. And if I'm going to be quite frank for the listening audience, Ken, when I first started listening to Dave RAMSEY Back in 2005, 2007, when I heard him say the idea of stopping with the car payments and paying cash for cars, that was probably one of two things that he used to teach that really, I wondered if the guy was all there. I was like, is what he's saying true? I had a hard time wrapping my, my brain around it because you don't hear that every day. Over 40% of Americans have car payments. So there's part of that, that it's like, wait, what, what are you saying? Have a one car family, pay off my car, and then pay cash for the other one. Jade and Ken, are you smoking something? No. Or not?

[Ken Coleman]

No. Well, in this case, first of all, I love the advice. I was going to go that direction. I think in this case because of the public transportation, because of their. They have such little debt. I love the idea of a young couple going in there, learning how to adapt. And I think the hour train ride both ways, I would use that as a little bit of penance to kind of keep me motivated to get the 13 knocked out to then save up for something. And I would use that to learn. I'd use that to journal. I would really use that time and learn the art. I think it's an art form to learn the mental and emotional art of patience.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

And I think that's what I love so much about you and Sam and your story is that you figured it out. And it reminds me of the old phrase, this is for the entire audience, whether your situation is different, but you're trying to get out of debt, trying to pay for a car to save up, to make life a little bit more convenient. Here's the takeaway. Where there is a will, you know, how it goes, there's a way. And I think that that is grandma wisdom. I think it's right. I think you and Sam proved it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. But let's not be, let's be honest with the people and tell them it's very easy to sit from our positions and say that. But for the person who's receiving that, it's emotional because for so many of us, the car, the very car that we're telling you to sell is the car you bought yourself because you were celebrating the job you got when you graduated college. Right? That was your, that was your retirement present that you can now no longer afford. So there is an emotional componen where we go, wait a minute, Jade and Ken, that's easy for you to say, but I'm the one that has to go through this.

[Ken Coleman]

It's not easy for me to say, I want to push, finish your point, but I want to push back on.

[Jade Warshaw]

But they think that because they don't know that we've done it through it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

You know what I'm saying? They're hearing it going, well, you're, you're on the other side. It's easy for you to say that now, but Ken and I understand that struggle. We know that it's an emotional thing. We know that it's hard to go home and try to tell your spouse, hey, by the way, we're selling the, the Tahoe. And here's why it's emotional when you show up for the holiday and your family's like what happened to that Cadillac you gu used to drive? And you're like, oh. And you go through that mental thing of like, do I tell them that we're paying off debt? It's really none of their business. You have to do all of that in your mind, Ken, I talk about that kind of stuff in the book that I just came out with. What? No one tells you about money. Cuz no one tells you that. No one tells you, hey, this is a battle. And if you can just come to the point of acceptance, this is just part of the process. The time will come when I can get that car I want again. But for today, like you said, where there's a will, there's a way. And this is a short term sacrifice for a long term game.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, and, and I, I, I love said that, but we are not speaking from this ivory tower. I'm glad you pointed that out well, because I think you all need to understand that when we say this, and I love that she's written this book because this is a book that you need if you're in a tough emotional spot. Because you're absolutely right, we're not robots, we're humans. And there is an emotional side to winning with money. And I'm going to tell you though, but that's where the will comes in. Because when we can say what is the desired future that we have and if I can focus more on how great that future will be, it makes it. It makes it a slight bit easier. Not easy. Yes, but a slight bit. Not even easy. Let me say this. It makes it bearable. And you share a lot of stories in this book about it is bearable. You can bear the burden of the rough emotions.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, it's all about reframing it in the fact that you're making a trade off. It's not that you're missing out on something. It's not, oh my gosh, I don't get to have this. I don't get to go on trips. I don't get to drive the car I want. I don't get to have my free because I have to side hustle. Right. It's about retrading, reframing. Is that as a trade? I'm trading something that I want now for something that I want most, which is a future without stress and debt and payments and to be able to actually do the things that I say are important to me.

[Ken Coleman]

So just, I mean she just absolutely unpacks so much of her story. Ramsey Solutions.com store pre order it now.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey guys. George here. You know I hate debt and that includes sleep debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

I've been there.

[Ken Coleman]

Fatigue, low energy, brain fog. And that's why I switched to Casper. My Casper mattress helps me sleep easier, cooler and deeper. And now every bedroom in my house has one. On top of that, Casper ships free. Comes with a hundred night trial. And if you don't love it, they'll come pick it up. So let's ditch the sleep debt and build sleep wealth. Go to Casper.com Ramsey and use promo code Ramsey for 30% off all mattresses and up to 35% off everything else. That's Casper.com Ramsey promo code Ramsey exclusions app. All right, so we were talking about Jade's book and what I love about the book, it's just not another money book. Now a lot of you Ramsey folks, I'm just gonna hit this head on. You're going, why do we need another money book from another money personality? Wrong question because this is not another one.

[Jade Warshaw]

What is it, Ken?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, my personal take on it is it addresses the thing that we don't talk a lot about on the show. Now we give you the baby steps. They work. It is no argument, no Argument, no question. And there are times where we, as hosts, we will jump in on the emotion. I do, as a non money personality, I will try to listen for what is the mindset, what's the emotional situation that I think is present in this particular call? But what you do in this new book, what no one tells you about money, and you're going, what is it? Well, I'm gonna let you answer it. Yeah, what is it that no one tells us about money and you now doing this book, what is no one.

[Jade Warshaw]

Tells you that money is so emotional? We tell you all the time, money is connected to everything you do. Right. It's connected to your career, it's connected to your relationships, it's connected to your faith walk. It's connected to so many areas. Therefore, when people like Ken and I are saying, hey, make these changes, you are gonna run up against those areas in your life where you have had prior experience that is now informing how you feel about money. I said, let me give you an example. You might be a person who can. You worked at a job for 15 years and they just up and laid you off.

[Ken Coleman]

Happens all the time.

[Jade Warshaw]

And so you weren't expecting it. Yeah. Maybe you could have done a better job handling your money, but now you're in a bunch of credit card debt, right? So you're calling here telling us about your credit card debt. What's at the core of that is there's a lot of hurt and about how you were treated. There's a lot of shame about the fact that over those 15 years, you could have done a better job managing your money. So there's a lot under the surface about how we are really feeling that's not just cut up your credit card and pay off your debt, right?

[Guest/Expert]

That's right.

[Jade Warshaw]

And so this is talking to you about that. Or maybe you had a spouse who you were married to forever, and they lorded over the money and they were controlling, and then they just up and left you. And it's taken you years and years to build back from that experience. And here we are. You know what? All you need to do is walk, you know, list them smallest to largest, right? And we're right, you do list. Need to list them smallest to largest. But what about the thing underneath that's making you feel like you got a raw deal? What's about. What about the part underneath that's making you feel like, well, shouldn't my ex have to pay half of this? And that can block us. It can make us want to stop and go, wait First, I need somebody to make it. I need somebody else to make this right. I need somebody to apologize to me. I need some. No, no, no. Let's work through the emotions. Let's accept what's happened. Let's accept our role in it, whether it was teeny, teeny, tiny or really, really big. And let's get about the work of changing it and accepting what's going on, accepting the process of change and accepting the fact that this is going to be an emotional process. And that's okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Listen, it's the only Ramsey book to take an honest deep dive. Look into the emotional side of money. And I'll tell you this from my standpoint. You know, I'm in the personal and professional growth space, so I could name names. I'm not going to. A lot of people in that space like to say things like just act your way into change. And I can tell you, how do you know somebody's full of crap? They say stuff like that. Because here's what I know. Having coached over 10,000 people on the Ken Coleman show, thousands more here on the Ramsey show, you cannot act your way into change. It is emotion. And if you change the way somebody feels, if we can change the way we feel, then and only then can we change the way we act. That's why this book is so important, because it takes that on and it's not ignoring the baby steps. It's in lockstep with it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. It'll cause you to walk the baby steps faster.

[Ken Coleman]

So get it now because it's the best deal. 24.99. It's on pre sale right now. Ramseysolutions.com store ramseysolutions.com store and when you pre order, we're gonna send you over $100 in free bonus items, including exclusive video. Your financial checkup with Jade. She's phenomenal, as you know on camera. And early access to the ebook. Also an enhanced audiobook. I wanted her to sing a lot. She didn't that idea. But it's still a great audiobook. So you can get it all. Ramseysolutions.com store get it today. Taylor now joins us in San Antonio, Texas. Taylor, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi, how are y'?

[Jade Warshaw]

All?

[Narrator/Announcer]

Great.

[Ken Coleman]

How are you?

[Caller]

I am good.

I am calling because I'm hoping you guys can settle a marital debate.

[Ken Coleman]

We can. I am confident in this. I don't even know what it is.

[Caller]

And I handle our finances. So I'll start off by saying that I adore my husband, but he's just not A money person. So we have total. We have three items of debt in our lives. That's it. No car payments, nothing. A mortgage of $222,000. My husband's student loan is about $106,000. And then we have a. Let me see this last one here. Sorry. Oh, a business loan at about 115,000. So kind of roughly about $440,000. Almost half a million dollars in debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is the business still alive?

[Caller]

It is still alive.

It's our personal business. So I. My husband's a physician. I know that kind of plays into it, but we started our own clinic.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

So he.

We pay him, you know, a salary and then, you know, we take quarterly dividends. Well, I am at the mindset. I want my house pay off. You know, I pay my kids private school with cash. Everything is cash. But these three things, and they are bothering me so much. But my husband wants to take these quarterly dividends after paying off the minimum balance of the loans and put them into our fidelity. So sometimes seven to $10,000 a month goes straight into fidelity. And I just don't. And he just once he thinks when you invest early, it just pays off later, but.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, I get it. I get it.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, he's right and he's wrong.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, there's worse things you could do than invest your money. But Ken's gonna explain why that's not the good.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I'll let you do that. You're the money guru. But I just am curious, what are you all paying him?

[Caller]

See, and that's the thing. I pay him 200,000 because we just opened five years ago. So, you know, we work with our CPA. You know, it's. And it's probably going to have to start going up because the dividends have become greater this year.

[Ken Coleman]

And I was going to ask you, could you give us maybe a six month average? Of what? The dividend? I mean, six month, because I know it's quarterly. Give me a year's worth of quarterly dividends.

[Caller]

What's that gross?

Like our tax is about 450. 450,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

So you're averaging on these dividends somewhere in the 7 to 10 range. Whoa, we just lost you there. We got you. I mean, there you go. Is that right? So quarterly dividends somewhere between 7 to 10. Is that what I heard?

[Caller]

Yes, and I. And I aggressively pay off. I pay almost $7,000 a month for this business loan. So I only have a year and a half left.

[Ken Coleman]

So he. So you are paying on that?

[Jade Warshaw]

Just the minimums.

[Caller]

Right, that money.

[Jade Warshaw]

And are you just paying the minimums on the debt?

[Caller]

I'm paying the minimum on my student, my husband's student loan because he's, I think it's like a spite thing. And then it's only 2.6%.

[Jade Warshaw]

But what about the.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, but how are you pay down the business loan is what she's asked.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. What about the business? Is it just the minimum on that.

[Caller]

Through the business before the dividend? So every month I pay almost $6,800 a month.

[Jade Warshaw]

Understood. But is that the minimum or are you paying above the minimum?

[Caller]

I'm paying a little bit more. Okay, so it's a 6.86%.

[Jade Warshaw]

You both have, you both have different ideas about what the priorities. It sounds like you'd rather take that money and pay off the mortgage. Did I understand that?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

Mortgage.

I mean if you're looking at the, the. It's the mortgage. 3.125.

[Jade Warshaw]

Understand? So you're talking about this. You. Here's the problem. And I don't know if I'm going to get through on this call, but it's something, it's food for thought. He's thinking about the future. He's thinking, let me take this extra money and invest. Not a bad idea. There's, like I said, there's a lot worse things you could do with the money. You're thinking about the money saying, let me take this and put it on the mortgage. Again, not a horrible idea. You could do a lot worse. But let's. What I'm here to do is give you guys a sense of what the priority should be. So all good ideas, but they must be prioritized in order of importance. You feel me? So first off, you've got this debt. I don't care what the interest rate is. It's still climbing. Can we agree on that?

[Caller]

100.

[Jade Warshaw]

And as long as we're paying minimum payments, we're probably never going to pay this thing off. We're going to pay so much in interest. So why don't we prioritize paying off our debt? And I say this because when you pay off the debt now you have what Dave Ramsey would call your biggest income, your biggest wealth building tool, which is your income working for you. And once you have that income back in your hands, yes, you can pay off your mortgage very, very quickly. Yes, you can invest for the future far more than you ever were before. So let's get that tool back in our hands. The first thing you need to do is look at these student loans, they're probably broken into smaller pieces. You need to pay minimum payments on everything, student loans, business loans. But then you need to put all of the extra margin on the smallest debt. And let's knock it out. You guys can be done with these, these student loans and this business loan very, very quickly. When you're grossing and netting $450,000 a year or whatever it says that you were doing, you can do this. Priority matters.

[Narrator/Announcer]

I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest. Early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did. We got Netsuite. That was years ago and we've never looked back. See, netsuite isn't just for tech giants. It's built for growing businesses like yours. Over 43,000 businesses already run on NetSuite, including a lot that started just like you. And now with built in AI, NetSuite is helping them even more. It's one system connected to every part of your business. For real time insights, not guesswork. NetSuite AI flags inventory issues, cash flow risks, even supplier delays before they become problems. So you can trust the data, stop wasting time and make the right decisions faster. Take a free product tour [e-mail] Ramsey that's netsuite.com Ramsey.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, our question of the day is brought to you by our friends at Y Refi. If your private student loans are in default, it can feel like the end of the road. But why? Refi helps you find a way forward with a low fixed rate payment plan that fits your Life. Go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey it may not be available in all states.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okey dokey. Today's question comes from Nikki in Nebraska. She says my husband and I are in our early 30s. We bought a home next door to his parents about five years ago. His parents home is paid off with 40 acres of land. My in laws want us to sell our home and build them a small home on the property with the money we make from it. Okay. Then they would give us their house free and clear. We bought our home for 135,000 and remodeled it. We could sell it for 285,000. The hitch is that my husband doesn't want to sell our home. He wants to take out a loan of around 70,000 to build a house for them and hold onto our home as a rental. What is the best move for our future?

[Ken Coleman]

It ain't that. Oh, first of all, I just throw.

[Jade Warshaw]

All the papers up.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. I just tell you where I'm at. I just checked out of that question halfway through. They made this so complex. It's so ridiculous. I've never even.

[Jade Warshaw]

This.

[Ken Coleman]

The gymnastics that I had to do mentally to get through that tells you one thing.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, it's a lot. I mean, the gist of it is, is the gist of it is for some reason they feel like in some form or fashion, they have to buy a house for their in laws.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. I had three words that came to mind. Leave and cleave was in my marriage vows.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Or how about no? How about no?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Yeah. That's why you say no. Leave and Cleave.

[Narrator/Announcer]

No.

[Ken Coleman]

Bad idea. Horrible.

[Jade Warshaw]

My in laws want us to sell our home and build them a small home on the property.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. I want my kids to buy me a Lamborghini. Sure. What else are we going to say? That's ridiculous.

[Jade Warshaw]

Will you buy my G Wagon again, Kim?

[Ken Coleman]

Sure, why not?

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, I was expecting you to say no.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I'm being ridiculous. I'm being ridiculous. It's just like what? Like.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, no, no. On all fronts.

[Ken Coleman]

By the way, those people ask that question because they think they're going to get a positive answer. So there's a lot of psychology behind that, which I can't dig into over an email question, but boy, oh, boy.

[Jade Warshaw]

That'S a bad movie. There's no. There's not enough to it for us to get to the bottom of it.

[Ken Coleman]

But I'm going to tear you up. Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Big tee right here. Giant golf ball. You got the world's biggest driver. I'm teeing you up.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right.

[Ken Coleman]

Tell our larger audience, forget the details of this question, but the whole issue that's underneath this, which is family pressure, doing financial things with family that have zero boundaries. There's your shot. Hit it down the fairway.

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean, I don't think I'm going to say what you think I'm going to say, Kim.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't presume to know what you're going to say.

[Jade Warshaw]

I thought you had something set up. I'm going to say I'M just saying.

[Ken Coleman]

Why we think this is a bad.

[Jade Warshaw]

Idea in general, because this right here is what I think is a classic case of it has a guilt that's associated with it. Ken. Because we can feel guilt with money. Whether it's something I didn't do. Right. They expected me to do this and I wasn't able to do it. Right. We can feel guilt about doing the right thing and the people don't understand why we're doing it. So we can even feel guilty doing the right thing. And so what I sense from this is there's some family guilt here. Well, if we don't build them the house, how are they going to have a house? They know the right thing to do.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's why they're running out all these things, options. And they're afraid that if they don't build their in law home, they're gonna have to be the one that lives with that.

[Ken Coleman]

Yep.

[Jade Warshaw]

When really it's the in laws that have to live with that for whatever reason that they can't buy their own home or build their own home. That's their problem.

[Ken Coleman]

You want to do a family compound, great. But everybody pays for their own home.

[Jade Warshaw]

Everybody pays for their own home. And you shouldn't have to carry that.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. It's craziness. All right. Well done. You hit it right down the middle. 400 yard drop drive. McKenna is up next in Salt Lake City. McKenna, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi, thank you for taking my call. So my question today is my husband's employer just opened healthcare enrollment and we're wondering if we should re enroll this year due to his premiums doubling along with his out of pocket max and deductible doubling as well.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh my gosh. Here's another real life case of the affordability crisis in America. This is just absolute real stuff right here.

[Jade Warshaw]

Insurance prices have really, really, really skyrocketed.

[Ken Coleman]

And what is Congress? What do they do? What are both parties doing? Just whistling. Just whistling around in D.C. like nothing's happening. Here we go, McKenna. So give us real numbers because it'll help us. And then I want the American people to hear this as well. So it's going to go from what to what?

[Caller]

So it's currently $500 a month, which has been okay for us, it's been sustainable with our income, but it's going up to $900.

[Ken Coleman]

And what's your, and what's your income?

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow.

[Caller]

Our monthly income is $5,000 a month combined.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. You feel that?

[Caller]

Yeah, I sure Feel that we just had a five month old. Well, we just had a baby, he's five months old. I'm grateful for insurance, but I'm also just like we're feeling the pressure with it already being how are we supposed to go up to 900? I'm really lucky. My boss is amazing. He doesn't offer health care because it's a small company, but he does give us $200 a month towards health care.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

So I'm just like, do I self insure? I've called my pediatricians, I called my primary doctors and I'm just like, how much would it be if I didn't have insurance? And have you numbers?

[Jade Warshaw]

Have you priced it out? You going to the market on your own, not through his work.

[Caller]

So I've called the market a couple of times in the last couple of days and try to get a contact with some brokers. But due to government shutdown, unfortunately it's hard to get quotes out. And so they've been struggling getting quotes out. To me, I've talked to probably four or five people and I've only gotten one quote and it was $700.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I mean we could set you up with folks here. I mean we Health Trust, you could go over there and see if, if they can find some better numbers for you just to see so you can compare. And I think that's the takeaway from this call is you need to run a comparison and see is it better for you guys to go out in the open market on yourself using your $200 rebate or is it better for you to go through his, through his work? The truth is, as much as I hate to admit it, McKenna, insurance is going up. I mean it's going up here at our work. Everybody is feeling it. It's just part of what's going on in that industry. But you can always shop the numbers. You can always see if there's something that's better for you out there. And if not, then it's tough. I'm not going to act like this is easy, but you're going to have to adjust to whatever the. Because I doubt you're going to find it for the exact same amount with the same coverage. It's likely going to go up somewhat and you're going to have to find that in your budget, whether it's cutting back in another area or you guys starting to look for different jobs that pay a little bit more. That's the very emotional side of this is when an external thing happens and it affects our life internally. And it's like, well, wait a minute, I had nothing to do with this. And now here I am holding the bag for it and I have to change my life and rearrange my money and rearrange how I was working. That's emotional and I'm sorry that you're having to go through that.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you all have any debt?

[Caller]

We do. We have about $47,000 in consumer debt.

[Ken Coleman]

Run. Just give me a list here. Go. Smallest debts to the largest debt.

[Caller]

So our smallest debt is a credit card with about seventeen hundred dollars on it. And then the next debt is another credit card that we put medical bills on for my son's delivery due to some insurance mix ups. And we had to pay more out of pocket than we thought. We saved at 10,000, ended up having to pay about 16,000 for service. About $6,000 on that credit card.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

And then we have two auto loans. One I think has like 19,000 and one has 18,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. I think a lot of your relief is found in those vehicles.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And that's why it's getting rid of that debt. So first of all, when we hear you, we see you and it sucks. And I'm not going to pull my hair out today and rant at DC Maybe later I'll let myself calm down.

[Jade Warshaw]

Keep your hair, Ken. It looks good.

[Ken Coleman]

Thank you. I appreciate that. But what I would say is that what can we control? So other than voting, we can't control what DC does, what the healthcare companies do. There's things that are outside of our control. You understand that? Yes, but what you can control is, well, we're going to have an increase in health care, but we're not going to. We're going to do what we got to do on that. We got to take care of baby, got to take care of our family. Now there is some struggle ahead for you all and it has nothing to do with the healthcare cost because I would tell you that you can absorb that health care increase if you didn't have all those car payments, you didn't have the credit card payments. So you guys are listening to us? You're watching us. You, you called McKenna. You gotta double down here. We're gonna work, we're gonna sell everything. We're not gonna see the inside of a restaurant, you know, the whole Dave Ramsey rant and you're going to pay that debt off. And you know what kind of a pay raise that's gonna be when we take all that debt combined and we take the giant payment that's going to all that debt and put it back in your pocketbook. We're gonna have the ability to pay the healthcare increase and thrive.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

[Guest/Expert]

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, hate, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

[Narrator/Announcer]

That's a gut punch.

[Guest/Expert]

And. Oh, you're telling me. And for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Me too.

[Guest/Expert]

They don't know what to do next.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Me too. I mean, you're gonna have a crisis here and you know, you got two options. While you're sitting and talking to a young widow, she's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

[Guest/Expert]

That's exactly.

[Narrator/Announcer]

These are the two options. And take care of your dadgum family, man.

[Guest/Expert]

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses. So your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah, to just miss you.

[Narrator/Announcer]

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance, Jeff Zander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Xander.com or call 835.

[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Coming to you from the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, I'm Ken Coleman joined by Jade Warshaw. Excited to have you with us. 888-25-5225. Kimberly is up next in Houston, Texas. Kimberly, how can we help today?

[Jade Warshaw]

Hey, y'.

[Caller]

All, how are you?

[Ken Coleman]

Good. What's going on?

[Caller]

So we found an old 401k and it has about 11, $111,000 in it.

[Ken Coleman]

I love that you found it like it was over in the corner.

[Caller]

We're doing some fall cleaning thanks to you. Ken, my husband left that job. He found the proximity principal and he just found a new career. So the 401 just kind of got pushed on the back burner.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So thank you for that.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, happy to do it. He did it, and I didn't do anything. So that's fun. 111,000. Did I hear that right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

So that's the good part. The bad part. We have a slew of credit card debt, with three of the major cards having 57,000, and the total credit card debt is 80,500.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, my.

[Caller]

Okay, you.

Yes, I know. So the question is, if we take it out of the 401k and we have to pay taxes and a 10% penalty because he's under 59, should we do that?

[Jade Warshaw]

No.

[Ken Coleman]

No.

[Jade Warshaw]

This is. This was money, whether you remember doing it or not. This was money that you guys specifically set aside for retirement. Therefore, it's wrapped up in retirement boundaries. And if you pull it out of those boundaries, you're gonna be hit with fees, you're gonna be hit with taxes, and that's what. That you're unplugging an investment. So, no, I would not do that. What I would do is roll that money to an IRA direct transfer rollover, meaning you're not pulling the money out, you're just rolling it over. Therefore, you're not paying the taxes on it. What you need to do with this debt is approach it the way that we would tell anybody to pay off their debt. Ken. And that's using your income via side hustles, via your real income, and cut back in your budget. That's the way to attack debt, not to unplug your future investment. Tell us about your incomes.

[Caller]

Together. We do ride at $100,000 a year.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And you told me, go ahead.

[Caller]

I was gonna say we don't really have any other debt. Our cars are paid off. We do have a house, but that's our only other debt.

[Ken Coleman]

So, not picking on you, but digging in here. What led to $80,000? That's not a shopping spot.

[Caller]

It's not. So. I mean, some of it was just. We felt like have to's. Like we were. We were attacked by Hurricane Harvey, which destroyed our house, and that had to be redone. And then I had cancer, so MD Anderson doesn't really care yet. Deductible has to be paid, and then those are legit, in my opinion. But the other. It's just crap.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Okay.

[Caller]

If we knew better.

[Ken Coleman]

And the reason I asked that is. Is because we asked this question a lot.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Lot.

[Ken Coleman]

You're calling us on what to do to pay it off, and I love that. But have the both of you had your I've had it moment where you go okay. Despite what has happened, we're not going to play armchair quarterback. We're not doing that again, are we? At that moment, yes.

[Caller]

God love him. And I think he is listening. He hasn't been quite on. On board with me. Me, and I think he's there now. So hence the. Okay, let's either do the 401k or let's set it into the budget, but let's do something.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so let's give us. I'm glad you guys are ready to do something. Let's make sure we're making the next right step. Right, because we don't want to do things out of desperation. We don't want to do things with the right intent but the wrong methodology. Okay, so let's do it the right way. You guys are making what, 6, 4100amonth? Month. Does that sound about right? 6300.

[Caller]

It does.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Are you currently investing still?

[Caller]

So the company he's with now, they. I think they pull out a little bit. So they. They pull out. It's a match on his 401k.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so let's pause that because you guys need all the money you can get to pay off this debt super duper fast. And I understand that saying that strikes fear in the heart of many because you're thinking, what I need to stack up the money, but you were just willing to drain a 401k for this purpose. So surely we can go ahead and just pause the. The investing for now. Keep the 111 plugged in. And what we're going to do is we're going to take all these credit cards and we're going to list them smallest to largest, and we're going to keep paying minimum payments like you have been. But all the extra money that you can get your hands on, we're going to throw it at the smallest debt. So when you guys do your budget, budget, how much margin do you kind of have at the end of each month that you can do what you want with?

[Caller]

Not a whole lot. We have a daughter in college as well, so there's not a lot left over. But I don't think honestly we're as disciplined as we could be.

[Jade Warshaw]

Understood. I like that honesty.

[Ken Coleman]

Are you double income? I didn't pay attention. I'm sorry, I thought I heard his income. You are or you're not?

[Caller]

We own a small business and then he works for a home builder.

[Jade Warshaw]

And the total was 100,000 a year right around there.

[Caller]

Yes, ma'.

[Jade Warshaw]

Am.

[Ken Coleman]

And the reason I asked that question is Are there opportunities for either one of you to make some more money for a season?

[Caller]

I have side hustles because ours is our business is clothing related and so I have all of that outside online possibilities. And then he is salary and bonus based. So. Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

So what do you do side or in addition to I should say to the hundred thousand. What are you doing with the side hustles? What does that bring in?

[Caller]

My goodness. I don't have like a number. I can tell you it vary but.

[Ken Coleman]

It'S also not enough that you even it's on your and I, I, I. My point here I'm making is if it were a decent chunk, that number would be readily available in your brain. And I think that's the challenge I make or if you're, or if your.

[Jade Warshaw]

Budget, if you're really on your budget.

[Ken Coleman]

Budget fair. But it's not a whole lot of money and it's not very consistent.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So we need to change that is my point because we got a big hole.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

What Ken is what Ken is saying and I want to double down on this for anybody listening is when you have a debt problem like this, there's two ways you can tackle it. What Ken is saying which is you money. Right. This doesn't happen. It's not a magic trick. You got to put some money into the budget. And the other thing is, yeah, you can cut expenses but sometimes when you've got a kid in college or you've got daycare or private school or these other things, they are starting to eat at that margin. So there's really only so much that you cut from the budget. So yeah, the other part which is going out and generating more and more income, that can be such a huge part of this. And I think that's going to be the case for you guys as too Kimberly. That's the way this works. There's not. I wish there was an easy button to push, Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

I do too. I do too. But we have got to get more income and this is specifically to your case. So let me make another suggestion and I and I'm only making this as a suggestion with these side hustles in this season where we're trying to make as much as we can to pay off this debt quickly or as quick as possible, shall we say. You're going to have to weigh your time. The amount of time Jade that she is putting into these hustle. I could see you doing your coaching. You've done some cool videos where you sit with somebody. I know you. You would be like, all right, how much time a week? And this is the question, Kimberly, that you've got to wait. You don't have to answer it specifically because our time is short. But your homework assignment is how much time am I putting in these side hustles?

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

Any money making venture. And how much money am I bringing in? Because I might need to pause all of that and go get myself a job at XYZ. To bring an additional 3, 4, 5 grand a month.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

For a season.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

To make a big dent in 80,000 plus of credit card debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

When you're in debt, now's not the time to get jobs that you like because you just like it. Right now is the time to get the high paying job, the high paying side hustle. It doesn't matter if you like it or not. It's a short term sacrifice.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Guest/Expert]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. This time of year can be tough. So make sure you check in on your friends, check in on your loved ones, and reconnect with people you haven't talked to in a while. I recently called one of my childhood friends. We had a great conversation. It was awesome. The conversation was hard, but we also laughed a little bit too. It can take a little courage to just send that message or go grab coffee or even get in the car and drive across the country to reach out with a friend. And reaching out for a therapist can also feel hard. But often it's worth it. And if you're thinking about therapy, I recommend calling my friends at Better Help. Better help has over 30,000 therapists. They're the largest online therapy provider in the world and they've served over 5 million people globally. And they have an average rating of 4.9 stars out of 5. It's totally online and it's easy to fit into your schedule. To get started, just answer a few simple questions and BetterHelp will connect you with the licensed therapist. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This month, don't wait to reach out. Visit betterhelp.comramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp hlp.comramsey.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, so I want to talk about something that's happened recently in the news because we're the largest money show in the world and I don't want to have our heads in the sand. And so let's just talk about some reality. So saw some data recently, Jade, that 70% of millennials are have A favorable view of socialism. Now, I make that statement. A lot of you get real nervous. There's a lot of emotions right now, and that's okay because we're going to be adults and we're going to step into something that needs to be talked about, and that is the affordability crisis in America. Now, I start with that data, Jade, because you hear that and you go, what? And some of you may go, oh, these whatever, whatever, whatever insults that you might come up with. You're outraged by that.

[Jade Warshaw]

I understand that they're outraged by the affordability crisis.

[Ken Coleman]

No, outraged that 70% of millennials view socialism favorably. So then we have a big election and Mamdani becomes. He's an avowed socialist. He becomes the mayor of New York. That creates a lot of emotions. You're gonna see a lot of headlines. That guy's name and what he stands for is gonna. A lot.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So I'm addressing this not from a political standpoint, but from a financial, economic standpoint.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay?

[Ken Coleman]

So whatever your emotions and feels are, here's what I want to point out. The reason that 70% of millennials, and I don't know the numbers on Gen Z, but I'm raising three. But why would a large chunk of Americans view socialism with some favorability? I'm going to tell you why. There's three major financial reasons why. Number one, student debt. We talk about student debt on this show all the time. It's gotten bigger and bigger and more expensive. It is a full blown crisis. If you've ever listened to me, I've talked about it. I think the federal government should not be in the banking business. And that's what they're in when they are financing student loans.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

And the colleges, Jade. And the universities get the money immediately. They get an immediate immediately. So when a kid signs up FAFSA and all that junk, they get the loan. Boom. Guess who gets paid?

[Jade Warshaw]

University cash.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. And then these students become young adults, become young professionals, become middle aged professionals.

[Jade Warshaw]

And then they call on us and.

[Ken Coleman]

They'Re calling us under the unbearable burden. It feels like now it's bearable. We teach them how to get out of it. But let's talk about the problem. So student loans, it's a crisis. It's a hook. And the federal government is on the back lack of people with student loans. Not only is the student loan thing a problem, but the affordability of tuition, Jade, is a problem. The universities keep ratcheting up the cost of tuition.

[Jade Warshaw]

They are.

[Ken Coleman]

Because they're getting money in the bank. They're getting paid immediately.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Number two, affordable housing, real estate.

[Jade Warshaw]

I was hoping it was on your list.

[Ken Coleman]

It's, it's, it's the biggest of the three but affordable housing. I'm seeing reports that sometime in the next six months or so we will see the average age of a first time home buyer. I can't even believe I'm saying this. This jade be 40 years of age or older.

[Jade Warshaw]

But we know, I mean we deal.

[Ken Coleman]

With that every day.

[Jade Warshaw]

You and I did the math on it the other day. If you, if you're making $100,000 and you pick a house for I don't know, $375,000 and you know, we can run the math on that but you're going to be putting 60% down for that to be 25% of your take home pay.

[Ken Coleman]

That's exactly right.

[Jade Warshaw]

You can do it, but it's going to take a long, long time.

[Ken Coleman]

Long time. I'm glad you mentioned so add that into the emotion. You've written a book about emotion and money. What no one tells you about money? Well I'm going to get real and marry politics and economics for a second. The third factor, the skyrocketing cost of health care and the spotty coverage. We take those calls every day. Now if you're still with me and I don't care if you're a conservative or a liberal, I'm not making a political statement. I'm talking about the reality of the affordability cris in America and I've given you the big three.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's expensive.

[Ken Coleman]

Now let me play this out. And I'm not justifying anybody's views on socialism. But I am a realist and I'm a co host of the largest money show in the world and we help people dig out of these problems. Now you take those three things. Let me review very quickly. Student debt, unaffordable housing, skyrocketing health care with spotty coverage. You take all three of those things and you put them together. Together. And millennials, younger millennials for sure. Jade and Gen Z, they have never experienced positive capital. What I mean by that is the true usage of the word money. They feel like they have been and they are behind the eight ball for any one if not all three of these combined.

[Jade Warshaw]

Understood?

[Ken Coleman]

So therefore the system of capitalism as they know it doesn't work very well.

[Jade Warshaw]

They have to listen to us old heads to try to tell them so.

[Ken Coleman]

Me, Dave, I'll say it. I'm all pro capitalism. But I am being realistic Today as a 51 year old gen Xer who has thrived because of capitalism, my experience with capitalism is very different than theirs. And so I'm just simply pointing out for a moment because this could tear our country apart. And I'm going to make a case today to bring it out together.

[Jade Warshaw]

Ken, go for it.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so there's the setup. I don't think that they're evil. I don't think they're idiots. I don't think they should be ridiculed and made fun of and marginalized. I think they need to be stood up for. And so I'm going to make a suggestion that those of us who have won because of capitalism and experienced the fruit of it, the burden now becomes on us as we the people. If we believe what we say, we believe that we now have to collectively put pressure on all politicians, local, state, federal, both sides of the aisle, and say maybe we the people should vote these lunatics and these idiots out if they don't work on policy by creating policy or changing policy to make things affordable. Period. Now I can say that as a host of the Ramsey show because I, I am not at the mercy of someone with an opinion because I have an experience. I've A, benefited from capitalism and B, I've coached thousands upon thousands upon thousands of people. And we will take more calls today of people that are dealing with this affordability crisis in America. And we the people have one option to start to collectively say, let's take on these three issues. And so as a guy who gets this unbelievable privilege. Privilege from a money perspective.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

And you don't come at me because, hey, I will not read the comments and James Charles will tell you what.

[Jade Warshaw]

Can you come at Ken? I feel like I'm just. This is the problem thing that I've heard in a long time.

[Ken Coleman]

So both parties are on the hook for this. Don't come at me. Both parties are on the hook.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And we the people are on the hook to say, wait a second, let's take these three issues alone. Affordable housing. Housing, the student loans and the tuition crisis and health care costs. And let's do something about it. And we've got to make our voices heard. I'm not talking about violence, but I am talking about the one thing that these politicians care most about is their preservation. Jade. They just want to keep getting reelected in. So at some point this is coming to a head and I don't want our audience to get sucked into what the mom Donnie election means. And what millennials flirting or liking socialism means? Don't get fearful, get active. Because I can tell you this, if anything unites the American people would be those three issues.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. We can all agree that it's outlandish.

[Ken Coleman]

That's a big tent. I think we could all say, how many in this giant audience think that housing affordability should be lower? Everybody's raising their hands. How many in this audience think that healthcare should be more affordable and better coverage? That's everybody in this audience. How many people think that the rising tuition in America is out of control and the student loan thing is a crisis and we should get out of the student loan business? How many think that maybe these universities should raise their own fricking dollars?

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh.

[Ken Coleman]

Or use what's already in those giant endowments and pay for bright young students to get educated? Every hand in the audience goes up. I'm not running for anything. I'm just pointing, pointing out that what could break our great nation is this affordability issue, and it's solvable. And I will say to our large audience, Republican, Democrat, independent, Libertarian, conservative, liberal, we probably should unite on these issues and say, let's make our public servants do better on policy, Jade, to make these things better. And I bet you we'd have a far greater unit union, a far less stressed country, a far less pissed off electorate. I just. I'm throwing it out there.

[Jade Warshaw]

Ladies and gentlemen, Ken freaking Coleman on the topic. Way to go, Ken.

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Jade Warshaw]

Homebuyer edge and Seller guarantee are available.

[Ken Coleman]

For qualifying borrowers and select loan types only and not available in all states or locations. NMLS ID 1591 nmlsconsumerexcess.org/al housing lender. All right, this is fun. We're going to go to a video call from Brianne. I hope I'm still saying that. Right. In Portland, Oregon. Brianne, Hi, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, guys. Thanks for having me on.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, we're thrilled to have you on. You look fabulous, by the way. So fun. Love the video call. What's going on? How can we help today?

[Caller]

I have a spending addiction that I just can't seem to get over. I've been trying to follow the baby steps, but it's really hard for me. So I'm just kind of looking for your advice on that.

[Ken Coleman]

Tell us a little bit more. What is this? What can you. What do you feel comfortable telling us about this particular addiction? Is it just across the board or is it one or two categories or one thing? What is it?

[Caller]

Yeah, so it's fast food because I have such a busy schedule that I don't plan for making dinner. So I spend money on fast food. I spend a lot of money on my daughter, I spend money on other people, and then, like, at the bottom of the list is splurging on my own stuff.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, and. And what? Give us an idea. Have you been tracking how much you're spending in all these categories on a monthly basis?

[Caller]

Basis, Yeah, I use every dollar, so it's probably about a thousand to 1,200amonth.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow. And what's your total income for a month?

[Caller]

It's about. Oh, for a month? It's probably 4800.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh. So, ma', am, you don't have the margin to be splurging like this, right? No, I mean, that's like, if you do have a $2,000 a month, that's half your income.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you have debt as well?

[Caller]

I do. I have a total of probably 90,000.

[Guest/Expert]

Whoa.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. You know, we're going to break this down. Give us the list. Smallest to largest.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

My medical debt is for a little over 4,000. Credit cards 9,100. And then personal loans, 51,600. And my student loans are 20,000. Who.

[Ken Coleman]

Are these personal loans to?

[Caller]

So before I found you guys, I had a debt consolidation loan.

[Guest/Expert]

Okay.

[Caller]

And then we got pipes on our house back when I was with my ex, and we're still paying that off. And then a car.

[Jade Warshaw]

So if I shoot straight with you, I mean, I'm wondering if I already heard it when you were talking about your ex. What do you think's behind this? Because there's always something behind it.

[Caller]

It's trauma, definitely trauma. And I'm trying to work through that, but I'm trying to figure out how to stop this overspending while I'm working on my trauma history.

[Ken Coleman]

Are you. When you say working on the trauma history, you see in a professional.

[Caller]

I am, yeah.

[Guest/Expert]

Great.

[Ken Coleman]

And you feel like you're making progress?

[Caller]

I think so, yeah. And I've started a couple groups with some others who've been through the same thing.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

So in a ca. I'm thinking through this. I'm trying to be thoughtful here. If it were a spousal situation and the two were together and one of them had an addiction, I would say this person doesn't need access to the money. Right, Right. I'd say the other spouse who was able to take care of the money, who can be trusted to take care of the money, needs to help. So I'm almost wondering if there's someone in your life who can be that person for you to say, hey, let me walk alongside you to make sure. Because with $4800 and with a daughter and with $90,000 of debt, we cannot keep spending $2000 dollars. Is there someone that you can trust to kind of walk with you and kind of not. Not. Not take you out of it completely, but for them to be more in charge of having that accountability with you?

[Caller]

Yeah, I have a close friend who's actually offered to do that for me. It's just releasing that control of it.

That's hard.

[Jade Warshaw]

But here's what we have to ask ourselves. What if we don't? Don't. What if you keep doing this over and over? Where will you, you know, a year from now, you're going to look up and say, okay, am I going to be the same? Am I going to be worse off where I'm going to be better? And right now, if you continue down this path, you're going to be worse off.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

So something has to shake.

[Guest/Expert]

Yeah, let's.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so first of all, can I say something? You're amazingly brave to call in on a video call and go, hey, I have a spinning addiction. So I want to tell you something because I think, you know, need to hear it. You're way tougher than a lot of people, so I want you to harness that. Now, I'm a big fan of therapy. I am no therapist, nor have I played one on tv, nor am I going to try to be one. But I would love to know what has your therapist said to you and that you're comfortable sharing as it relates to tools or some type of process that they're probably giving you when you get to an emotional place. And let's say we're driving, driving home and you know you've got an old pot roast in the fridge, but you really want to pull over to your favorite place and get a combo. Tastes good, feels good. All the things, what has been shared, if any, from your therapist on tools or how we're processing. Because I'm going somewhere with the answer, what can you share?

[Caller]

So I'm in EMDR therapy and she has. We recently worked on this where you kind of go and play from the beginning, the scenario, like I'm driving home and then play through the. What would happen if I were to go drive to this fast food place and get a burger and then drive home? And then there's that meat in the fridge that's almost ready to expire. So kind of walking through it and then reshaping it in your head what it would look like if you were to just drive home and use the food.

[Ken Coleman]

And has that been helpful?

[Caller]

I haven't really used it yet because it was just this last week.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, great. So when was the last time? And so you're being real with this. When was the last time that you spent in one of those categories that you led the call off with? That was the addictive stuff. When was the last time?

[Caller]

Probably last week.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, good.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

So the reason I went to this is. I love what you said, Jade. I think in this situation, you have got to get to a place where while you're getting the help and the therapy and you're dealing with the trauma, you've got to find something, something to replace that band Aid spend. And you've got to find something that goes, I've got to look at something else. And instead of something that makes me feel good, I would start thinking about something that makes me feel really bad attached to said spending. Right. So if I'm tempted to buy something for my daughter because I show her love, and by the way, I've been guilty of this. And you're smiling.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

It makes you feel. See, you feel bad about yourself a lot, don't you?

[Caller]

I do, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So when you buy something for your daughter, it makes you feel really good and the endorphins release and there's dopamine and you're like, okay, I feel really crappy. Let Me go buy something for my daughter. What I think you're going to have to start doing is, like, I feel crappy. How do I process these emotions? What are the tools my therapist has given me? That's first.

[Jade Warshaw]

Second.

[Ken Coleman]

Second, if it were me, Jade, I would go to. If I buy something for my daughter that I cannot afford to make myself feel good because she shows me love and happiness, I am further penalizing her and me and putting me further in a hole. And that's what I mean by going to the negative consequence of the addictive spending. I think you've got to spend more time there to go, oh, the pain of that is far greater than the pain I'm feeling. Because what somebody did to you and said to you, what are your thoughts on that?

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean, I think that's all valid. I go to the practicality of it. I go to James Clear, and I think about systems and putting those systems in place so you can actually win. That's why I mentioned what I mentioned earlier. If I were in your shoes, I think it would take an incredible amount of willpower, but I think I would go tonight and I would set up everything on automation, and I would say, when I get paid on these days, my bills get paid automatically. And you want to know what I would do? I think that I would cut up my cards for a while.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yep.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you have them close by?

[Jade Warshaw]

Because here's the thing. If you need. If you need money, you can walk into a bank, you can withdraw it. That requires a lot more work. It requires a lot more thought. But in that time, that also gives you the time that if you're feeling that way, you could call your buddy up and say, hey, remember I told you about this thing? I need you right now. Because I'm about to go in here and make a withdrawal slip so that I can go buy myself a burger so I can go buy my daughter something. And so now we put another level of friction in between you and doing the thing that you know you shouldn't be doing. And I'm no therapist. I can't even pretend to be one. But that's just something on the practical level that could help you today.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, speaking of practical, are your credit cards close by?

[Caller]

No. I don't know. They're across the room.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, if we were to give you an opportunity, say, to walk across a room and get those cards and bring them back on camera, would you cut them up? And right now, wait a second. You called. You called us and you said, I need Help with addictive spending. I think Jade makes a good point. I think we cut them up now.

[Jade Warshaw]

You give yourself a certain amount of money for groceries. Let your buddy hold it.

[Ken Coleman]

You in or not? We're not going to force it. You in or not? You want freedom.

[Caller]

So my. My debit cards to my bank account.

[Ken Coleman]

Not your debit, your credit cards. You want to cut up, up.

[Caller]

Oh, I already cut out the credit cards.

[Ken Coleman]

It's just like, cut them up.

[Jade Warshaw]

I would have let the debit ones go, too.

[Guest/Expert]

All right.

[Ken Coleman]

That was. That was real. Real.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, like when you talk to somebody like Brianne, who's dealing with a spinning addiction, owns it that she's had some past trauma, a single mama. I mean, that's as real as it gets. And that's tough stuff. And, you know, you. You were sharing with me. You know, you were sharing with her. I. I think. I think for her, for anybody that's in those shoes, I thought you had a really great. Here's what I would do step by step. And I wanted you to share that because I think it's really good. I mean, you did with her, but I'd love for you to really recap that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, it's definitely. Probably the most extreme piece of advice I've given, but she seemed like she was in an extreme situation. And I said I would automate my bills, whatever her bills are, rent, car, and insurance, so that they come out of the account automatically when she knows she's paid. And I would get with a friend, an accountability friend, and say, hey, I don't go to the bank to withdraw money unless you're with me. And I can go to withdraw money for groceries and I can withdraw money for gas, and then you go with me to the grocery store and you go with me to the gas station. And that is. That's just a practical thing because we said that can. Because if it's a spousal situation, we can give the money to the other spouse to handle, and we can lock ourselves out of it. She has to find a way in a system to lock herself out, to keep her safe until she can work through the trauma with her. Her counselor. So.

[Ken Coleman]

And by the way, I mean, the all new Every Dollar app, and it's really. No longer. It's not an app. I mean, it is such a. I sat with the team the other day, and you are gonna get what you get on this show, 20x. In other words, it's a digital coach.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, it is.

[Ken Coleman]

And you answer the questions, you dive into it it's going to send content. You get an actual free 10 minute coaching call with one of our actual coaches. If you're in the shoes of Brianne or anybody that's going, hey, I need to get control of my money. I'm telling you, every dollar is the play. The average person by the way is finding thousands of dollars in margin in the just first 15 minutes. By the way, if you take 15 minutes and answer questions honestly, what you get in return is a digital coach walking alongside. It is so fantastic. Start every dollar for free today by getting it in the App Store or Google Play. Josh is up in Tampa, Florida. Josh, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hey, thank you guys so much for taking my call. I really appreciate it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, you bet. What's happening in your world?

[Caller]

So me and my wife, we rent currently and we're contemplating whether we should buy a home or not. But we do have some debt that we've been knocking out. We've been following the baby and have every dollar. We've been really attacking it since about February but total debt we have between everything is $73,000. And so we bring home together bring home about $8,600 per month. And after bills and everything is paid for, we're doing pretty good. We have about $1,500 a month left over which is what we've been doing attacking the credit card debt we have and we've already paid 5 off since February so we've just really just you know, got our, our savings and everything. Good to go through. Baby step one.

What?

So really my question is should we just keep attacking the debt? Our rent is relatively cheap.

[Jade Warshaw]

What is it?

[Caller]

850.

[Jade Warshaw]

850. So what's the rest of this money going on minimums? Because 8,600 is a lot of money. It's just you and your wife, right? There's no kids yet?

[Caller]

No, we have a four year old and then we have a baby on the way actually.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, congrats.

[Jade Warshaw]

So give me like 850 is super cheap. Where, where's the rest of this 8,600 going towards? Because usually the big ones are rent, daycare, insurance. So where, where, where is yours? Is it car payments?

[Caller]

Yeah, so we, so my wife's car we have about 9,000 on.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

My truck we just got over the summer because we knew we were, my car was small so we knew we had to get something bigger now.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what's the payment on that?

[Caller]

I know, 710.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, there's some of it. What do you owe on it.

[Caller]

42,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Listen, my guy. You already know what I'm gonna say.

[Ken Coleman]

I do. Drum roll.

[Jade Warshaw]

You gotta sell the truck, my guy. You gotta. You gotta. You gotta let it go. I think you better cut it loose.

[Ken Coleman]

Let it go.

[Jade Warshaw]

You gotta cut it loose. And I'm serious, by the way. I was making jokes, but listen. $710. I applaud you for putting $1,500 of margin on, but when I hear 8,600, I'm thinking it's going to be a lot bigger of a shovel than that.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

So the 710. What if you. I don't know if you've looked, but what could you get for that truck? Kelly Blue book, private sale.

[Caller]

I haven't looked. I would guess around 38,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

38. Okay, so if I. You. Would you rather have $4,000 of debt or $42,000 of debt?

[Caller]

Right.

True.

[Jade Warshaw]

So I think that's the play. Now. You've got a little bit of. Of time. You're. You're not pressed for time. I don't think you need to go get a loan for it. I think you can save up the difference because I think you do have more margin than you think. We're going to give you every dollar if you don't already have it. Do you have it?

[Caller]

Yeah, we do have red. We do. We do have every dollar.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, Go through that budget and crunch those numbers, because I think you have more margin than 1500. Because I want you to save up $4,000 really fast to clear this.

[Ken Coleman]

Can I jump in on this one? Yes, Ken, she's right. But I wonder if you could earn $4,000. You're a young guy. You got some skills.

[Caller]

Yeah, I've been doing doordash on the side randomly.

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, we don't do door dash randomly. Sorry. I was all fired up. And then you stepped into that one. You've got limited time, correct?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Ken Coleman]

And we need. Have you ever heard the old phrase, time is money?

[Caller]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

So we don't. And listen, I'm not knocking doordash, but in your situation, I believe you can make a whole lot more money than you're making for the time you're exchanging. Do you agree with that?

[Caller]

Sure. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. What skill sets do you have? Let's get real. What skill sets do you have experience. Do you have in the workforce? List them up.

[Caller]

My.

So I'm a Navy veteran, and then so my job in the military actually do. I'm a minister. So we. That's. That's what I do. And then my wife is a banker. And then.

[Ken Coleman]

You got any trade skills? You got any, you know, you know where you can sling a hammer or do anything like that? Renovation work? If you can't, can you work in a manufacturing situation and work the crazy shifts and make really good money money now or slinging boxes around? You get my point?

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Ken Coleman]

In other words, what can you do in your area that'll make you the max amount of money to get back into where Jade's talking about? I want you saving. She's right. But what if we could also. What if Jade, we could save four and make four back to you.

[Jade Warshaw]

I love that. Because now you're going to have the cash to buy something that's older, much less expensive, way more miles, Right? But it's just a base band aid until you can get the rest of this debt paid off. Then you can move up in car. Now, here, let me tell you what's going to happen. You're going to get off this call and what we have said to you is really going to sink in. And you're going to say, hold on, they told me to sell my truck. I just got this truck. Wait a minute, they're telling me to work extra hours. I have a pregnant wife. And you're going to question whether or not the first thing you called in, which is you want to be out of debt. You're going to question of if the methodology is worth the result. That's what you're gonna question. That's what your emotions are gonna cause you to do when you go home. Then you're gonna tell your wife about it and she's gonna add hers to the mix. And you're gonna have to sift through all that. And what I'm asking you to remember is what I want you to sort through what you want now, which is you wanna keep your car and you wanna be home. But I want you to compare that with what you want most. So you need to think about that tonight. What do you want most? Is it the way the house feels when you bring the newborn baby home? Is it how it's going to feel to be able to sit down with your wife and the debt not come up in the conversation and cause another fight? Right? These are the things that you need to think through. Because what we're asking you to do is not any small little thing.

[Caller]

Right?

[Jade Warshaw]

Fair enough. But you're also talking to two people who have done the things that we're. We are. Ken and I are not going to tell you to do anything we haven't done ourselves. Facts.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm curious, Josh, have you felt some frustration recently about this whole money thing?

[Caller]

So at the beginning of the year, yes. Once we found you guys and started doing, you know, the baby steps and every dollar. And then, you know, we cut out a lot of. I mean, we found that, you know, 1500amonth leftover, basically.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm going to tell you something. When you get off the call, like she said, you're going to feel a range of emotions. Can I give him. I know it's a. It's before it comes out.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do it.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's give him a copy of what no one tells you about money. It's the emotional playbook here. It's so needed for you, my friend. Because she's right. What we told you to do is not fun. So hang on the line, we're gonna give you a copy. It's not even out yet. We're gonna give it to you because you need this book. So Jade's new book, what no one tells you about money. Available ramseysolutions.com store go pre order it now.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Buying and selling a home is a big deal, and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey trusted real estate agents. They're handpicked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs, and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit ramseysolutions.com agent ramseysolutions.com agent.

[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Coming to you from the Fairwinds Credit Union studio alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. So excited to have you with us. The phone number to jump in so we can help out is 888-8255-225882-55225. Allen is up in Dallas, Texas. Allen, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Yeah, thanks for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

My girlfriend and I are in our 60s. We are financial independence, independent, and we're discussing marriage. And this would be the second marriage for both of us. And I've heard numerous times on your program there is no his or hers in marriage. Is just ours.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Caller]

Of our situation, I think maybe have extenuating circumstances. And I am needing help processing those variables before she and I sit down and discuss it.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, well, so let's start with these extenuating circumstances. I doubt we're going to change our opinion, but hey, give us a Shot. What are these extenuating things where you go? I don't know. Can we maybe the one case where we keep everything separate.

[Caller]

Sure. Well, okay. We each have a trust. And those trusts are set up for our estates, our children, our grandchildren.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Okay.

[Caller]

And we would have a prenup to protect them.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

In the event one of us pass.

It's.

We're. We're both Christians. We're a faith based marriage. We, we volunteer. We work for our church.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

So the prenups, not because we might get divorced. It's what happens when one of us passes.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

Okay. We each own our homes outright and we'll keep both of them, but we'll live in hers. And if she passed before I did, I would be able to stay in that house and as long as I wish, but then it would go to her children.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

Okay. So what I think about is home improvements, let's say. Well, if we do home improvements, it's. It's her house. I benefit because I live there. But in my opinion, that's something that she would pay for. And if we bought, one of us bought a new vehicle. Vehicle. Well, whomever wanted that vehicle would be the one to pay for it. So I see as. Yes. Keeping those separate.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, if you keep that separate, you are keep. Let's be honest. Like, I, I do think if you keep things like buying cars separate, if you keep things like doing home renovations separate, I mean your money is separate. I, I don't mind the fact of you, you guys protecting the trust through a prenup. It's almost like the stuff that was in the past. I'm okay with it being protected and having that protection around it. But the things that are you. You're doing going forward, I'm okay with that being together. Because if you buy a new car, is that in the trust? No, that's. That's you guys living your current life together. And so you guys together get to decide who, you know, what will happen to this if either of us passes that sort of. Of thing. And you know, with the houses, I might be inclined for you guys to do something where you don't keep both of those homes and you buy something together and start your life together. Because the more you keep things separate and try to keep your previous life alive to a certain extent, it's going to be very messy for you. What's the benefit of keeping both of your old homes versus selling them. Taking the money together and buying something you really like to together and then willing it that it split Equally amongst your heirs.

[Caller]

She really loves her home like she loves her home. And I am not overly attached to mine. I would actually keep mine. My home is near my kids and so I would keep it as an overflow house. I might stay there some. We might stay there some. When I have other kids come in from out of town. It would just. It would be kind of just for my family's use.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I slightly different. I don't mind Jade's suggestion, but I'm not. I wasn't going to make any changes on the house thing. I'm with you, Jade, 100%. I think the trusts are what they are. I think the houses again, it's a sticking point because your wife to be. We're going to assume that you guys get married or your girlfriend that house she's got in the will, it's going to the kids. They've got separate kids. I get that. But I would say to your answer your question question. I do think your finances need to be combined. I agree with Jade. I just, I don't really care about the houses. The house situation and the trust I'd say is kind of excluded. But I agree with Jade 100% and I don't think we change our tune unless. Unless you have some sort of trust issue with her in combining finances. She should get married anyway.

[Jade Warshaw]

He's wondering about making upgrades to her house.

[Ken Coleman]

I know, I'm getting there. I think that I'm with you. I agreed with you that it's whether it's her house from the past or not. If they're living there, it's not the renovation for the new bathroom comes out of her account. No, it's our account. I think you guys should combine checking and savings accounts. You are married. You're doing life together. The trust and the houses being staying where they are. Totally fine with that.

[Jade Warshaw]

But if he puts money into that house, but it's all aired to her kids, what does that mean for him? That's the right. Am I wrong?

[Ken Coleman]

That's where he's hung up. But I'm saying I agree with you.

[Jade Warshaw]

But that's the part it's. That's going to be very hard to navigate because then you're going to have to every year do some sort of thing to the trust where you're saying, you know, here's the value of the house. But this much is going over to, you know, his side of the family. I'm telling you.

[Caller]

And that wouldn't happen.

[Jade Warshaw]

And that wouldn't happen.

[Caller]

Why I would think so. Here's. Here's devil's advocate.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay?

[Caller]

I'm living in this house for free, right? She's not going to charge me to live there.

[Ken Coleman]

You're married to her.

[Jade Warshaw]

And that. Hold on, let me stop. Because that is the crux of all of this. As long as this persists, that will be the. The. The. The language. And you've got to be able to move past that. And the only way to move past that is to say, okay, what was in the past is in the past. And sometimes when we enter into a relationship, there are sacrifices that we make for that person. That's just part of it. When Sam and I got married, I moved from where I was living, and I moved in with him. I changed my name. I sacrificed certain things about. About my life. He sacrificed certain things about his for us to come together. And I think it's the same thing for you guys. It's just harder because you're 60, and you're in your life and you're in your ways, and there's things that you've grown accustomed to, and I'm not. I. I get it. But if you truly want to make this simpler for yourselves and get the language of we, you've got to let go of what was mine. That's all I'm saying.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree. Listen, and by the way, you do what you want to do. You called us. So keep in mind, when you call us.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. You're going to tell.

[Ken Coleman]

And you push back on something that we believe. We're going to push back again and again. We're all friends.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

You're very wise. You guys are in a great financial situation. I just think you're overthinking this. And if I was in my 60s and I was in your situation and I had found another love and this was my opportunity, I would not be calling me, asking the questions that you're asking. I'd be like, babe, let's live it up.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Go.

[Ken Coleman]

You know?

[Jade Warshaw]

I don't know. I'd be like, well, what's gonna happen when I put $50,000 into this renovation? I'd be wondering, too.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, but you're, like, contradicting yourself.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, because it's her house. It's his house. If I. If you're like, babe, I'm ready to go. But we move into your house, and all my money spent renovating your house, that's gonna go to your air.

[Ken Coleman]

How much money you gonna spend on this woman in a. In a year just because you love her?

[Caller]

How much $100,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Get over the freaking kitchen renovations, man.

[Jade Warshaw]

Listen, I'm looking across the glass is right on with me. He knows. He knows what's up. But you're marrying her, the house, and exactly that.

[Ken Coleman]

She wants a kitchen. It's called happy wife, happy life.

[Jade Warshaw]

Then I my like, let's go buy a house where we both love the kitchen together.

[Ken Coleman]

You're spending more of his money. I'm fine with that, too.

[Jade Warshaw]

You know what I'm saying?

[Ken Coleman]

I get where you're at, but, I mean, the way he's asking it, I'm just like. We're worrying about stuff that, quite frankly, in your 60s, getting married a second time, you shouldn't be worried about.

[Jade Warshaw]

About. Hey, you guys, Rachel Cruz here. Look, I know you want to do better with money, but let's be honest. Life seems to be getting more and more expensive, and lately, you hardly have any breathing room in your budget to do anything but cover the basics. You work way too hard to feel broke. Our EveryDollar budget app can help you free up margin fast. Most people find an average of $3015 in their first 15 minutes of using the app. Think about it. That's thousands of dollars just sitting right there in your budget, waiting for a job to do. With EveryDollar, you'll find the margin and the motivation you need to start making real money. Progress fast with your money. Start for free today. Download the EveryDollar app for free today.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, Jade, I'm gonna tell you something you already know. But everybody needs insurance. See, you knew that.

[Jade Warshaw]

I did know.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, but it can be a little bit sticky. It's not fun. Let's be honest. Most of the time, trying to find out, you know, who's looking to make a buck versus an agent who knows their stuff. And they got your best interest in mind. But that's why you need a Ramsey trusted insurance pro. Because you never have to deal with all the sleazy, gross stuff, because Ramsey has vetted these fine folks, and they care about what they're doing. They care about you. They have the heart of a teacher. They have your best interest in mind. So go to ramseysolutions.com to find the type of insurance you're looking for. Because keep in mind, you're trying to win with money. Some of you aren't covered enough. And so if something bad were to happen, it could really knock you off the path, or some of you are overinsured, and you could use a little bit of money back in that every dollar budget to get ahead so go to ramseysolutions.com coverage. Stephen is up in Montgomery, Alabama, Alabama rather Steven. And how can we help?

[Caller]

Yeah, so mine is kind of a two part question, I guess. I, me and my wife, we are looking to purchase land and build a house but I want to be debt free before doing so. I'm self employed and so I'm trying to figure out, out of my savings that I currently have, how much of that can I put towards my debt. Do not drop my savings too low since I am. And so trying to figure that out and also trying to figure out how do I figure up when it is time to buy the land and build the house, what I can afford with what I make, if that makes sense. Because you know, trying to get out of the debt as quick as possible helps me get to that point.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do you have, so when you talk about your savings as a self employed person, do you have money set aside in your business as retained earnings and then you have a personal savings set aside or, or how is it, how is it arranged?

[Caller]

Yeah, so there's a little bit. Yeah, so there's a little bit in the business and then I have a separate set aside and like my personal account basically.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. I would keep what's in the business in the business. I wouldn't pull that out. How much is it? Just curious.

[Caller]

And so in the personal combined is 60. So in the personal 50 and then the, in the personal 50 and then 10 in the, in the business.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Yeah. What kind of business is it?

[Caller]

What they look like. So it's do roofing.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and keep that 10,000 there. I think I'm, I'm not sure how your business runs, but my guess is it's there for a reason and you want to keep being able to run.

[Caller]

I guess it's. Yeah, yeah. So I own, I own the business. So there's obviously in, in that business there's a lot more money than what's in. I should have specified that basically that pays my core corporation. So my corporation is what I'm talking about. But in the actual business because I own it with a partner, there's a lot more money in that. So that business pays my corporation, if that makes sense.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got you. I would keep that separate for now.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Because it seems like it's going to be cleaner for you. But you've got $50,000 saved. That's your money. Let's talk about that. The way the baby steps work, which is the framework that we're always going to teach people how to handle their own money through is the first thing you need to do. After setting aside $1,000 just as a basic, you know, barrier between you and life, the next thing we do is we take all the money we can find and we throw it at our debt. That includes savings, income, selling things, selling off stocks, crypto, that sort of thing. Basically everything's at stake except your retirement for the most part. Right, Ken? Y And of course you don't have to sell your house. But you see what I'm saying? So for you, yeah, I would keep $1,000 aside and I would take 49 and I would throw it at whatever debt you have. How much debt do you have?

[Caller]

We just had a baby, so I don't know what that amount is. Without that, we're looking at 50, 55. It's for two vehicles and some back tax stuff from when I was a teenager, basically.

[Ken Coleman]

Tell us about those vehicles. What do you owe on.

[Narrator/Announcer]

On each?

[Caller]

So I owe 15 on one, 30 on the other.

[Ken Coleman]

What are they worth?

[Caller]

Truck that's I owe 15 on. And it's basically my work vehicle is probably worth 20. And the SUV is worth basically what, what I want it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So I would be looking to get out of that SUV today instantly. And then I would take maybe $8,000 of your money that you have saved and buy something in cash.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree. And let me, let me play the math on the back end of that advice. She's right. What is that SUV payment right now? Monthly?

[Caller]

5, 5, 50. Somewhere around there.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so if you do the math like Jade told you, so she's giving you an $8,000 car is not going to be exciting, but it is going to be functional and it helps get you going on this. And now not only that, you've got it, you freed up another $500 a month and throw a debt. That's why that's a beautiful recommendation.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you're not going to have to now drill down on your savings as much as you thought because now you can reach over, you can pay off the $15,000 car and then what's that leave you with? Another 15 somewhere. What else did you have? Two cars?

[Caller]

Yeah. So there's the, yeah, there's the two cars, which is 13, 15 and then there is 9,000 in back tax.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Okay. And then you can reach over and you can pay off the back taxes.

[Caller]

Correct?

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

What do you think about that?

[Caller]

So even with. So I don't mind that at all.

[Jade Warshaw]

I.

[Caller]

My worry was being self employed. If or get slow or something happens.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, you'll still have. You know, you'll still have. You will only have to pull 24,000, actually, plus the eight. I forgot about that. So you'll only be pulling 32 from the 55,000 that you have saved.

[Caller]

Okay, that's enough.

[Jade Warshaw]

From the 50 that you. I'm sorry, I had it written down backwards. So you'll pull 32 from the 50 that you have saved. So that leaves you with a little bit.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you pay yourself? What do you pay yourself a month?

[Caller]

So that's a long story, but it's right now about 10. All right, I say about 10. 10 to 15 is what I get.

[Ken Coleman]

But see that urgency to get that back up, because that's what you're worried about. Something were to happen, you're going, I got to get paid. Yeah, but you have bigger problems, right? So it's like, what happens when somebody gets advice like this? They go, well, let me think of the absolute worst case scenario. And that's why I don't want to pay off my debt. But here's the deal. If the worst case scenario happens, number one, you got a bigger problem than the fact that you paid off the debt. You've got a problem with your business. But what's nice is if something works to happen, you can scrap by a whole lot better, longer, if you don't have all this debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So I just want to make sure you see the entire picture here.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, you're sitting in a better situation.

[Caller]

That makes sense to.

[Jade Warshaw]

To. If. If the. If you did what I told you to do today and tomorrow, and then Monday came and the worst happens, you would have $18,000 of emergency fund. You would have 10,000 reserved in your part of the court corporation. You would have no debt. That's pretty awesome.

[Caller]

Yeah, no, that makes. That makes absolute sense.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you wouldn't have to worry about making truck payments and car payments. You wouldn't have to worry about the IRS breathing down your neck to get that money.

[Ken Coleman]

I can't believe how nonchalant you are about your back taxes from when you were a teenager. I got to tell you, I heard that. And, and, and, man, I broke out. I. I need a Benadryl on the break.

[Caller]

Way higher, huh? It was way higher.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't care. It's still. Still around. That. That sucker's got mold on it. It's been around so long.

[Jade Warshaw]

So the question America wants to know is, are you gonna do it? Which. Which part of it will you do and which part of it won't you do you can be honest. Tell us.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, we won't get no.

[Caller]

So I'm. Well, no, I'm gonna. So the one that worries. I say worry. It doesn't worry me is we have to find a vehicle that we have four kids.

[Ken Coleman]

Listen, not a problem at all. Don't give me the four kids won't fit in a standard SUV because they will. Oh, no, not.

[Caller]

And hear me when I say that I'm talking about reliable. That kind of worries me.

[Jade Warshaw]

But still hear me when I say if you had called in and you didn't have $50,000 saved, I might be more of a stickler about this, but you've got a little bit of money saved if you want to spend $10,000. It's not the end of the world. The point is you're buying it in cash. Do you see what I'm saying?

[Ken Coleman]

I just bought my kid a couple years ago a $12,000 SUV and that thing's running like a top. And you could put four kids in there. In fact, I've seen him with five teenage boys in there there. So I do this all the time on the show. Cracks James up, our fearless leader.

[Caller]

I get online minivan. So minivans work too.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, there you go. You get. Get what you need. But my point is, the point here is to get rid of the debt and to buy vehicles from here on forward in cash. That's the point. And you get to decide how much of this you're going to keep as your emergency fund. And then you can quickly stack it up to three to six months of expenses. And you're going to be sitting pretty if you do.

[Ken Coleman]

Speaking of sitting pretty, I was laughing listening to him because when I was a kid, we would be on long road trips and I would take a nap in the back windshield. That's how our parents did not care about seat belts. I literally would lay in the back. You know what I'm talking about? Oh, yeah, no big deal. Just back nice warm place to take a nap.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here. Winning at money is 80% behavior and 20% head knowledge. What to do isn't the problem. Doing it is. In her brand new book, what no one tells you about money, Jade Warshaw dives deep into the reasons you've been stuck. This book exposes the real emotional fight with money and shows you how to win that battle. Pre order now for $24.99 and you'll get over $100 of free bonus items. Get your copy today. @ramseysolutions.com store.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, in the lobby here at Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. I see two fantastic looking people over there. We've got Thomas and Amy on the debt free stage. I guess you're here to do a debt free scream, is that right?

[Caller]

We are.

[Guest/Expert]

Yes, we are.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, where are you all from?

[Caller]

Washington Courthouse, Ohio. Just about an hour south of Columbus.

[Ken Coleman]

An hour south of Columbus. Okay, fantastic. All right, well, give us the number. How much debt did you pay off?

[Caller]

$138,661.

Wow.

[Ken Coleman]

How long did that take?

[Caller]

Five years.

[Ken Coleman]

Five years. Okay. And what's your range of income during that time?

[Caller]

We started out at 101,000 and we ended last year at 143,000. I think we're going to beat that this year.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, good. What do you guys do for a living?

[Caller]

I'm a regional coordinator for, for a Christian international Christian ministry. A fantastic one. Samaritan's Purse.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, sure, sure, sure. I've traveled with, I've gone on trips with them in my past life before Ramsey. The work I did. So love the organization.

[Caller]

Awesome.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And you?

[Caller]

I'm a correctional officer.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. You, you have that look and vibe until you smiled. I was a little nervous talking to you. I'm not going to lie to you. Did you get that vibe from him?

[Jade Warshaw]

I don't know. I feel like it was more than meets the eye.

[Ken Coleman]

I love it. Now what? Now what do you attribute the growth in income over that time?

[Caller]

We've done a little bit of everything. We gave plasma for a while until we got a little concerned about our health. And I worked a second job. I would go in and work from 4:00 clock to 7:00 clock and then go change clothes and go to my room. Real job, Tom. Doordash for a while and lots and lots of overtime. That's what he's doing right now.

[Ken Coleman]

So we're looking at some people who know what it means to be gazelle Intense.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Fantastic.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, what kind of debt was the 138,000?

[Caller]

A lot of everything. We had a couple of car loans. We had credit cards, a parent plus loan, some medical bills and just a medical menagerie.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow. So what was the point that you. It is. What was the point that you looked at it and said something needs to change here?

[Caller]

Well, actually 10 or 11 years ago, one of my co workers in one of my previous lives had given me one of Dave's books to read and I read it and thought this is really great. And gave the book back to her and went on about my life, which wasn't very effective, so. And then I joined Samaritan's Purse, and one of the fantastic benefits that they offer is Smart Dollar.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, great.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

And so I joined Smart Dollar and started utilizing everything, watched lots of videos, and still we were kind of ish. But then 2020 happened, and while Tom was considered essential, I, thankfully was blessed not to lose my job. We worked our tails off, but did it remotely at home for. For a few months. But it made me realize that something had to change, like, because it could have been very easy, that we were one of those people that lost their jobs. So we kind of got started there, and that's when Tom really got on board.

Yeah, I was ish.

Yeah. He was happy for me to be the nerd and let me do all of the things that I financial guru all the details, so. Well, not a guru, or we wouldn't have been in $138,000 worth of debt.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, it's interesting you say this, because I love that you mentioned Smart Dollar. Smart Dollar, obviously, is everything we teach our program for organizations, and it goes through as a benefit to HR and all that. So when you start to experience that and you come home from work and you start telling them, hey, there's this plan. I think it's going to work. You're pretty fired up, I'm guessing. Is that correct?

[Jade Warshaw]

Correct.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And then Tom, I mean, you. You had to be going, what. So what was the hardest part for you to. To. To get on board with?

[Caller]

I just. I didn't really pay attention. I just was, like, thinking. It didn't really start meaning anything to me until I started getting closer to retirement. For me, it was about, you know, our kids, and they. They played sports, and we was all involved in that of kind growing up, and I just thought that was just what it was, you know?

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[Caller]

You just. You lived with it and you did the best you can with it. But then the more we went on to it, she was talking in my ear and getting me to watch some of the. Some of the things on the. On the. You know, the.

[Jade Warshaw]

The video.

[Caller]

The videos and stuff like that.

So then I started getting the videos, but he was forced to watch them.

And about two years ago, you know, started getting able to work a little bit. Bit more overtime. So then I started putting in the time and really getting involved.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well done. That's awesome. I love that. So what would you tell somebody who's kind of on the fence who says, I've read the book, but I put it back on the shelf? Or I have the benefit available to me, but I don't need that today.

[Caller]

Well, the program works, but you have to work the program for it to work. So reading the book and doing nothing with it.

Communication.

Yeah, that doesn't work. So just being intentional and doing what you need to, taking the next step, doing the next thing. My problem is that I'm too detail oriented and I wanted all the things to happen. I could see the end, but I wanted to pull it this way and make it go quicker. So just knowing that there is timing and God's timing, you'll get it done. You just need to be intentional about what you're doing. But yeah, definitely. Communication and making sure that you're guiding are walking in the same direction. Because if you're fighting your partner, it's never gonna work.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right. You gotta fight the thing that's really the enemy.

[Caller]

Exactly, exactly.

[Ken Coleman]

What kind of support system did you guys have?

[Caller]

Each other and our two sons. Our two sons, actually, we had one, a senior in high school in 2020 and a senior in college in 2020. We didn't think that through when we had children, eight years of college, but we were committed to cash flow, as much of that as we could. And they are both on plan, so we talk to them about it all the time. And they're working their own plans right now.

And their kids, grandparents, they took care of them whenever we were working or stuff like that. They helped out whenever, Sometimes, whenever you. You need that little extra, you know, and you just can't make the ends meet. Sometimes they help out there.

[Ken Coleman]

So. Yeah, love that. The hardest part for each of you. Tell me. I want people to hear the real, real. What was the hardest part of this journey for each of you?

[Caller]

That it took five years.

[Jade Warshaw]

Five years is a long time.

[Caller]

I wanted it done especially for you.

[Ken Coleman]

Checking all the boxes.

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm a little obsessive about it. I check my every dollar every day, multiple times a day. I wanted. I knew when I hit that send button on paying a debt, I wanted it to hit my bank so I could pull it over into the right category. And that was hard for me is the patience part of it. But I think that was a lesson that God was giving me.

[Ken Coleman]

Tom, for you, the hardest part, just getting involved.

[Caller]

Just actually, you know, understanding that I needed to put out a, you know, to get rid of the debt. So once I retire. Once we retire, we can do the things that you know we plan to do with our children. And now the grandchild, our little grandchild.

[Ken Coleman]

He's how fun.

[Caller]

Amazing. You know, you want to spend time.

[Ken Coleman]

With him and so now be able.

[Caller]

To do the things that you want to do.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And that was what I was going to ask. How old are you guys?

[Caller]

I'm 55.

Okay, 54.

[Ken Coleman]

55. 54. And so now on the other side of this, where are your head and hearts about the future knowing that you've made it through this and reset your financial future?

[Caller]

Well, Tom's looking forward to retirement. Obviously.

I can retire in March next year.

The state of Ohio says he can retire in March. He can't retire in March.

[Jade Warshaw]

Amy said no.

[Ken Coleman]

Amy's made that perfectly clear. Yeah.

[Caller]

No. I plan to be with Samaritan's purse for as long as God willing, so it'll be a few years for me. But we are looking at. We did our three month emergency fund because we want to pay off our house. And then we'll backfill that other three months but we're not slowing down to not taking our foot off the gas. So.

[Ken Coleman]

You guys are an inspiration to a lot of people. It's possible. So here we go. Thomas and Amy from Columbus, Ohio area. Actually Washington courthouse to be specific. They paid off $138,661 dollars in five years making 101 to 143, 000. Congratulations you guys. Take it away. Let's hear your debt free screen.

[Jade Warshaw]

Ready? Three, two, one.

[Ken Coleman]

We're debt free.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, there it is.

[Ken Coleman]

I think we got the real Thomas. Thomas had it all very kept buttoned up.

[Jade Warshaw]

That was the correction correctional officer voice.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, it was like. This is what happened. If you do something stupid around Thomas, don't give him a night stick. Oh no siree. Hey. That is so awesome, folks. He can be done. They did it. We're cheering all of you on as well. Keep it up.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Ken Coleman]

Our scripture of the day comes from Isaiah 58:11. The Lord will guide you always. He will satisfy your needs in a sun scorched land and will strengthen your frame. You will be well. You will. Excuse me. You will be like a well watered garden. Like a spring whose waters never fail. And our quote of the day from L. David Marquette. Leadership is a choice, not a position. I gotta tell you, I got a little distracted. Can I confess something?

[Jade Warshaw]

I got distracted too. Was it the scripture?

[Ken Coleman]

It was.

[Jade Warshaw]

Were you talking about moisture?

[Ken Coleman]

No, it was about the and will strengthen your frame. And you know, you know where this Comes from my wife and daughter, Josie. You know them well?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, I do.

[Ken Coleman]

They love Dancing with the Stars.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

And I have to deal with that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, you do.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't watch it but I. I frequent the kitchen, living room area. You've been in our home. And they're always talking about the judge. The one judge who. I don't want to insult anybody, but I can't stand one judge of the judges. And he's always carrying on about their frame. So here I am trying to do my job and read the scripture and it says and I will strengthen your frame. And I want to confess to everybody. God's his judge from Dancing with the Stars carrying on about your frame.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's funny, I was opposite. I'm reading the part. Toss it over here. Where he says you'll be a well.

[Ken Coleman]

Watered scorched or something.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. You'll be a well watered garden. A spring whose waters. And. And I'm thinking about the conversation we had about how you're laughing at me because I always make Sam put lotion on him to be moisturized.

[Ken Coleman]

I wasn't gonna bring this up. This is a whole separate subject. Kelly and James, we had dinner with Jade and Sam recently. And it was a 45 minute section of our dinner where Jade and Sam walked through their pre bedtime lotion routine. And poor Sam has no choice in all of this.

[Jade Warshaw]

I just want him to be a well watered garden.

[Ken Coleman]

He is. And she straight up said I'm going to look great when I'm old. He has to as well. And the routine that Sam has to go through is nothing short of punishment.

[Jade Warshaw]

He has a skincare routine. His.

[Ken Coleman]

His that you gave him and forced upon him.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you want to know What? When he's 80 and goes like this, the skin is not going to flake off.

[Ken Coleman]

Ken, he's not going to make it that far.

[Jade Warshaw]

Able to say that.

[Ken Coleman]

No. And I don't want to. The the amount of life he is not living that he spends on lotion, it's. I don't know, it's worth trade off.

[Jade Warshaw]

But he looks good. Come on. Sexy. Okay, that's what I thought.

[Ken Coleman]

He's a handsome man. Sharon in Buffalo. Sharon, how can we help?

[Caller]

Good afternoon Jane and Ken.

Thank you for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

So my husband and I have been married 12 years. Early on in the marriage we were debt debt free. Then he took on credit card debt.

So our finance were.

Finances were separate. They've been separate for quite some time.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh no.

[Caller]

Three days ago I found out that he had Been keeping a secret for three years that he co signed on an auto loan with a coworker that I have never met to this day.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, my goodness.

[Caller]

And, yeah, and that coworker, who he doesn't even work with him anymore, is struggling with addiction, so they are not making their payments. And he, he finally told me, my husband there tail between his legs. But, you know, it's very well, had you talked to me, I would have.

[Ken Coleman]

Told you not to do it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sure.

[Caller]

And, and here we are. So right now, I've seen this vehicle. My understanding is that it's probably trashed and it probably smells like cigarette smoke, so I have no interest in taking it over.

[Ken Coleman]

How long ago was it the, that.

[Caller]

The loan was taken? Yeah, three years ago.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, gosh.

[Ken Coleman]

Do we have any idea on the numbers? In other words, what's owed on it versus what it's worth?

[Caller]

Well, one day my husband tells me 20,000. The next day he says 21,000. Really and truly, how much is this? I don't know. They think that if it were to go to auction, I have no experiences with repo. I don't know how any of that works, that they think they would get.

$5,000 for it at auction.

[Ken Coleman]

So it's, so it's in bad shape now.

[Jade Warshaw]

Did you say, did you say that you've already separated finances?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

But we still, we, we both own a home and we would love to try to recombine. He has made an effort because the issues that made us split our finances in the first place, that almost split.

Up.

It was like, okay, let's split our finances. And I continue to try to live my life debt free, but every time I try to get ahead, I feel like I love him dearly, but he's a bit too much of a nice guy making the wrong decisions.

[Jade Warshaw]

Who's facilitating the conversation with you guys that's helping. You see, okay, here's what caused the split. Here's what must be true for you guys to come back together. Is there a counselor helping you with this?

[Caller]

There needs to be.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think so too. Yeah, I think so too. Because what I'm hearing on your end is a woman who's almost done. That's what I'm hearing.

[Caller]

I've been there before. I, I, But I, I know that.

I, I love him very, very much.

[Jade Warshaw]

But he's. He, he, he. It's just like again and again and again and again. Right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

And there's that part of me that feels stupid because it's like, okay, as much as this hurts. He's probably gonna do it again.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, you need, you need somebody to get in between that because this has been a wild ride for you and I, I mean, I'm. I'm not a marriage counselor. I can't help you with that. I can look at these numbers, but I don't think it's going to solve the problem here today.

[Ken Coleman]

He is, I'm assuming, fully aware of how this makes you feel and what this does to your relationship, Correct?

[Caller]

Yeah.

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So do you think he's in a situation? And again, I don't. I want to be very careful, the word I use here, but is this a character issue only or is this. He's got some type of trauma, he's got some type of addiction or something in his world to where he needs some extra, extra help. It's not just him deciding to act like an adult. I'm just curious your take.

[Caller]

I, I think it's a bit character. I think it's relevant to something tragic that happened on the job with this.

Worker that many years ago.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Even still though it, regardless of that, it, it is a pattern.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[Caller]

Sometimes I describe it like if we were, you know, to go to a.

Store and he held the door open.

For somebody, I might be the third person he let in. But then he' to stand there and continue to hold the door open for 80 people. And I'm going to be standing there.

Like, okay, honey, can, can we go?

[Jade Warshaw]

So is it an overage of like he's just trying to help everybody too much? Is that what he's spending this money on? A crazy generosity?

[Ken Coleman]

So he's a unhealthy pleaser.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, got it, got it. Okay. That's insightful. But not for you, weirdly enough.

[Ken Coleman]

But I. And you know what, I hate to say it this way, but there is a silver lining, lining there. He just needs to figure out the person he actually needs to please a little bit more is you.

[Caller]

Oh, thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And not in an unhealthy way because.

[Jade Warshaw]

He'S not healthy, but prioritizing you and what you think and what you want.

[Ken Coleman]

And is he willing to do therapy?

[Caller]

Yeah, so. Well, especially the financial piece of it.

Because I'm not going to lie, I.

Did propose this to AI and said.

What do I do?

[Ken Coleman]

But you don't talk to frickin artificial intelligence. You guys need a. So are you in a church? Are you in some type of community where you can talk to people and go, I need three or four really great legitimate recommendations on the therapist.

[Caller]

Maybe.

[Ken Coleman]

No, you're not. So you need to. You need to figure out who, you know that has some credibility, that you trust their judgment that they've been to a therapist. We're going to have to dig a little bit and uncover. Let's just go to the website, the web, and find a link. Local therapist. But I think he's got to commit to this. You have to say to him, never again. If you want to be in this marriage, we have to get this solved. We have to heal together. We both got our junk. Some of us did it to the other or whatever. There's no scorekeeping here. We got to get healthy. And if we can get healthy, there's a great chance that the money stuff on his end gets healthy.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. So regarding the situation, I mean, the best thing that you're going to be able to. To do here is he needs to get his hands on the records to find out what is owed on this vehicle. And you guys need to start stacking up some cash so that when the time comes, whether it goes to auction or not, there is going to be a deficit for you to pay and you're going to be on the hook for it. And that's unfortunate, but it's the way it is.

[Ken Coleman]

Thank you for the call, but you got to fight for this. This is a fight for your marriage. Then the finances. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that that's to walk daily with the prince of peace in Christ Jesus.