Bad Money Habits and Good Relationships Don’t Mix

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "Bad Money Habits and Good Relationships Don’t Mix"

Release Date: November 28, 2024
Host/Author: Ramsey Network (Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Deloney)
Episode Title: Bad Money Habits and Good Relationships Don’t Mix

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Introduction (00:00 – 01:15)

The episode kicks off with a brief introduction by Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Deloney, highlighting the show's mission to help listeners build wealth, pursue fulfilling work, and cultivate meaningful relationships. They announce live call-in availability and promote their Ramsey Network store.

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Caller Segment 1: Madison from Atlanta, Georgia (01:15 – 08:45)

Issue: Madison shares her struggle in a second marriage where she is the primary financial supporter. Despite having a prenuptial agreement acknowledging her potential inheritance, her husband does not contribute financially, leading her to feel unsupported and questioning whether she's being taken advantage of.

Key Points & Advice:

• Respect Over Money: Dave Ramsey emphasizes that the core issue is respect, not just financial contribution. He states, “This isn't a money issue. This is a respect issue” (04:31).
• Communication: Ramsey advises Madison to have an open and honest conversation with her husband about her feelings and needs, ensuring both partners agree to "rewrite the rules" of their financial relationship (08:07).
• Action Steps: Dr. John Deloney suggests creating new financial agreements together and possibly restructuring how they manage their joint finances to foster mutual respect and support.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: “This isn't a money issue. This is a respect issue” (03:26)
• Madison: “I feel like I'm the breadwinner” (03:35)

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Caller Segment 2: Shay's Student Loan Dilemma (10:06 – 14:38)

Issue: Shay discusses taking out her first significant student loan of $45,000 for a master's in social work. She fears the long-term debt but is encouraged by a projected salary of $50,000 post-graduation.

Key Points & Advice:

• Avoid Excessive Borrowing: Dave Ramsey cautions against taking large loans and suggests exploring alternative funding methods, emphasizing the risk of prolonged debt.
• Emergency Planning: Dr. John Deloney recommends paying for the degree upfront if possible and considers the sustainability of Shay’s current financial plan.
• Debt Management: Ramsey advises maintaining an emergency fund and avoiding additional debt, even for education purposes (13:14).

Notable Quotes:

• Shay: “I just can't be with this debt for like 10 years” (10:06)
• Dave Ramsey: “Just pay off your mortgage, get your emergency fund done” (78:39)

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Caller Segment 3: Justin’s Extreme Work Hours & Debt (20:43 – 26:10)

Issue: Justin and his wife are intensively working 80-90 hours a week to pay off $30,000 in debt through side gigs like flipping equipment. Justin seeks advice on managing the physical and mental toll of such strenuous work schedules.

Key Points & Advice:

• Short-Term Strategy: Both hosts agree that Justin’s approach is a "short sprint" and not sustainable long-term. They stress the importance of balancing work with personal well-being (23:07).
• Mindset Shift: Ramsey suggests that Justin recognize the necessity of the intense effort to overcome debt and accept temporarily missing certain personal activities for long-term gains (22:11).
• Emotional Support: Dr. John Deloney highlights the importance of emotional resilience and leveraging the experience to build character and strengthen relationships.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: “I'm proud of you” (28:12)
• Justin: “And I don't want anything to end” (06:25)

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Caller Segment 4: Jordan’s Financial Anxiety and Health Issues (34:04 – 39:32)

Issue: Jordan, a 27-year-old in the entertainment industry, faces severe health challenges coupled with financial anxiety. Despite having substantial savings and investments, he struggles with managing his finances amidst debilitating illnesses.

Key Points & Advice:

• Sense of Control: Ramsey and Deloney emphasize regaining control over finances by simplifying financial decisions and establishing clear boundaries (35:07).
• Holistic Approach: They recommend addressing both financial and emotional aspects, suggesting resources like Dr. John Deloney’s books to help Jordan navigate his challenges.
• Practical Steps: The hosts advise Jordan to avoid unnecessary financial risks, focus on essential expenses, and build a secure emergency fund (38:02).

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: “Don't take it. Don’t take the check.” (13:26)
• Dr. John Deloney: “Own your past, change your future” (35:30)

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Caller Segment 5: William’s Internet Fraud and Marital Struggles (52:56 – 60:40)

Issue: William discusses a situation where his wife fell victim to internet fraud, resulting in significant debt. Amidst their 25-year marriage, they're undergoing therapy to rebuild trust and manage financial fallout.

Key Points & Advice:

• Debt Priority: Ramsey advises paying off high-interest debts first and eliminating smaller credit obligations to clear immediate financial stress (56:27).
• Rebuilding Trust: Dr. Deloney highlights the necessity of transparent financial actions and cooperative efforts in therapy to restore marital trust.
• Long-Term Solutions: The hosts suggest that as trust is rebuilt, William and his wife can address remaining debts systematically, ensuring financial stability without jeopardizing their relationship.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: “You have the money. Write a check.” (57:12)
• Dr. John Deloney: “This is bad, bad, bad, bad juju right here.” (71:09)

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Caller Segment 6: Justin’s Emergency Fund and Mortgage (70:43 – 80:38)

Issue: Justin, having recently paid off his mortgage early and built a substantial Roth IRA, seeks advice on whether to purchase additional property from his in-laws using a zero-percent land contract.

Key Points & Advice:

• Avoid Land Contracts: Ramsey strongly advises against land contracts due to their inherent risks and potential to strain familial relationships (71:10).
• Cash Purchases: He recommends purchasing property outright if affordable, to maintain financial freedom and relationship harmony.
• Financial Prioritization: Deloney underscores the importance of prioritizing debt repayment over speculative investments, even when favorable interest rates are offered (78:39).

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: “Don’t mess that up.” (71:36)
• Dr. John Deloney: “Pay cash for it or don’t do it.” (71:15)

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Caller Segment 7: Brianna’s Bankruptcy and Anxiety (73:52 – 80:38)

Issue: Brianna shares her experience with bankruptcy in 2021 due to severe depression following her brother's death. She feels ashamed about both her bankruptcy and loan forgiveness through public service programs, despite being debt-free.

Key Points & Advice:

• Eliminating Shame: Ramsey encourages Brianna to acknowledge her emotions without internalizing shame, emphasizing self-compassion and gradual healing (45:20).
• Objective Assessment: He advises her to maintain a journal to objectively evaluate feelings of guilt and seek professional counseling to navigate her emotions (48:03).
• Moving Forward: Dr. Deloney supports the idea of focusing on actionable steps to rebuild financial stability while addressing emotional wounds through therapy (46:13).

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: “You don't have to do that.” (45:32)
• Dr. John Deloney: “Zero shame.” (48:38)

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Caller Segment 8: Sam’s Domestic Violence and Lease Issues (73:52 – 80:38)

Issue: Sam, who had to leave his lease early due to a domestic violence incident and a protection order, finds a $4,000 debt in collections despite notifying his property management with proof.

Key Points & Advice:

• Legal Obligations: Ramsey clarifies that a protection order doesn't automatically release one from lease obligations, advising Sam to negotiate directly with property management (74:27).
• Settlement Negotiation: He recommends settling for a reduced amount reflective of the remaining lease period rather than accepting the full debt.
• Financial Clarity: Sam is encouraged to thoroughly understand his lease terms and work towards a fair resolution without letting emotional trauma impede financial responsibility.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: “I’d go in person.” (75:45)
• Dr. John Deloney: “You can't just send them the email and go, I'm out.” (75:47)

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Caller Segment 9: Justin’s Financial Strategy for Emergency Fund (80:39 – 83:04)

Issue: Justin seeks advice on whether to allocate his income into a high-yield savings account for an emergency fund versus paying off his mortgage, given the favorable interest rates.

Key Points & Advice:

• Debt Over Investment: Ramsey advises prioritizing debt repayment over high-yield savings, emphasizing that the returns from savings are insignificant compared to the benefits of eliminating debt (78:39).
• Practical Finance: He recommends continuing aggressive debt repayment strategies, similar to those employed in earlier segments, to achieve financial freedom swiftly.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: “Don’t play games.” (79:12)
• Dr. John Deloney: “If you got 100,000 at 5% and 100,000 at 4%, the spread is 1%.” (78:39)

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Discussion Segment: Talent vs. Trauma Response (63:41 – 69:43)

Topic: The hosts engage in a discussion about distinguishing between genuine talents developed from compassion or discernment and compulsive behaviors rooted in trauma responses.

Key Points:

• Healthy vs. Unhealthy Motivation: Dave Ramsey differentiates between using talents as a healing mechanism versus as a coping strategy that hinders personal growth. He emphasizes the importance of being healed to utilize talents effectively.
• Self-Awareness: Dr. John Deloney and Ramsey stress the necessity of self-awareness in recognizing whether one’s actions are derived from a place of strength or unresolved trauma.
• Emotional Readiness: The conversation highlights that individuals should avoid bringing personal chaos into others' problems and only offer help when they are emotionally prepared.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: “I have to versus I get to” (68:24)
• Dr. John Deloney: “A scar that's healed is the trick” (66:30)

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Conclusion and Final Advice (83:04 – End)

The episode concludes with final advice to callers, emphasizing the importance of financial responsibility, emotional healing, and maintaining healthy relationships. Dave Ramsey announces upcoming live events and encourages listeners to engage with the Ramsey Network app for continued support and resources.

Key Takeaways:

• Financial Transparency: Open communication about debts and financial plans is crucial in relationships.
• Emotional Health: Addressing emotional and psychological issues is as important as managing finances.
• Debt Management: Prioritize eliminating high-interest debts and maintaining an emergency fund before making significant financial moves.
• Healthy Boundaries: Establishing clear financial agreements fosters mutual respect and strengthens relationships.

Closing Remarks: Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Deloney reiterate their commitment to helping listeners achieve financial freedom and build strong relationships, encouraging continued engagement through various platforms and upcoming tours.

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Notable Quotes Throughout the Episode

• Dave Ramsey: “This isn't a money issue. This is a respect issue.” (04:31)
• Madison: “I feel like I'm the breadwinner.” (03:35)
• Dave Ramsey: “Don't take it. Don’t take the check.” (13:26)
• Justin: “I just can't be with this debt for like 10 years.” (10:06)
• Dr. John Deloney: “Own your past, change your future.” (35:30)
• Dave Ramsey: “I’d go in person.” (75:45)
• Brianna: “I just wanna know if that’s something I should pay or don’t.” (74:14)

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Conclusion

This episode of The Ramsey Show delves deep into the intricate balance between money management and maintaining healthy relationships. Through real-life caller scenarios, Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Deloney provide actionable advice, emphasizing the importance of respect, communication, and emotional well-being alongside financial responsibility. Listeners gain valuable insights into overcoming debt, navigating marital financial dynamics, and fostering personal growth, all while building a secure and fulfilling life.

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Note: Timestamps correspond to the approximate times in the provided transcript for reference.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey guys.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Black Friday week is here with five days of deals starting at just $12. Go to Ramsaysolutions.com store to check them. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, number one best selling author a couple times over and host of the Dr. John DeLoney Show Ramsey Personality is my co host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's triple 882-55-2225. Madison is with us to start off this hour in Atlanta, Georgia. Hi Madison, welcome to the show.

[Madison]

Hi Dave. Hi John. Thank you so much for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What's up?

[Madison]

So I predicament that I've actually made myself, I got married, second marriage for both of us not quite six years ago. And at that time I had been through a pretty bad divorce and had a pretty traumatic first marriage. So definitely was healing from that and met this wonderful man, so nice to me and kind to me and I just fell head over heels in love with him. I knew he was broke, I knew he didn't have any money and that, that just didn't matter to me. He was just so nice to me and I loved being treated nice. So we got married. I did have him sign a prenup because I was expecting to inherit a large amount of money from my parents estate at some point. I hadn't at that time but I knew that that would be in the future. And so he did sign a prenuptial agreement and didn't have any problems with that. However I started our relationship with just paying all the time. I paid for everything. We'd go out for dinner, I would pay. I already had a place where I lived that I paid for and you know, etc. Etc. So I, I understand how I've kind of set a pattern and at the time it didn't bother me. And you know, I might want, I also want to add this man's Christian man, he knows the word of God. You know we really, I really have put this in God's hands and asked for his help. But I just, I just can't figure out where that, why there's just, there's no spirit of generosity with, with him. He just, I've brought up several times, you know, can you please pitch in, just kick in. I don't expect half and half. I have plenty of money. I don't, I don't need his money. It's just on principle Just, I just need to know that I'm not just the only one that's supporting us. I feel like I'm, I'm the breadwinner.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So he doesn't earn an income.

[Madison]

He did. We are both retired now. He does not have any retirement.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How old are you guys?

[Madison]

I'm 60. He's 64. He took Social Security early. He was working at that time. And then when you state when you start taking Social Security, you can only work so many hours. You can only make so much money. So that knocked his availability down to where he really couldn't work very much. But since then, we've both retired and relocated.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So what do you feel like? The core question is.

[Madison]

I think I'm just trying to figure out if, if I'm being taken advantage of. Is this just something where I'm, I'm being, you know, I've brought something up several times and I just. Nothing changes. Nothing. It just stays the same. And I don't know if I. Well, I guess what my next step should be.

[Dave Ramsey]

This isn't a money issue. This is a respect issue. You don't respect the man that you're married to because, like, I, I bring home, I, I, I bring home a quote unquote income to the house. But my wife, my God almighty, if she disappeared, the house would go away. So I don't look at her and say, wow, you're not contributing to this thing. And I'm paying for dinner all the time because my money is our money. Right? And, and the home that she keeps and runs and her small business, like, that's ours too. But there's a mutual respect there. So this doesn't have to do with money. And you mentioned earlier, you don't want a thing. You don't want your marriage to be where you're paying for everything. It is. That is the world you set up. So, yeah, the only thing you can do from this point forward is to create something new. But this is a respect issue. This isn't a I just need him to pitch in issue. Have you been very clear about what you need, or has it been a, ah, you know, like, man, I sure am paying for a lot. And he might be thinking, well, it's our money. Have you been very clear with him?

[Madison]

I'm, I'm not, no. I'm, I'm very afraid of confrontation. I get very nervous about talking about something like this.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then you end up in resentment land because you spend a ton of time having imaginary conversations in your head, don't you?

[Madison]

Yes. Oh, I do.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's cruel and unfair to him and doubt.

[Madison]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you're going to be mad.

[Dr. John Deloney]

In your brain, too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. If you're going to be mad at him, he at least deserves to know what he could do. Give him a path back to relationships. Right. Now he married somebody with a lot of money and he might think he's fulfilling his duties as your husband by being the fun loving guy that just. Whatever. Whatever. Partridge in a pear tree. He needs to know you don't respect him.

[Madison]

Yeah, I do. I do love him. And I don't want. I don't want anything to end. I don't want to.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What does he need to do to be a person that you would respect? Because he doesn't need to work. You guys are retired. No, it's not a work ethic thing. What is it that he's supposed to do that makes him valid in your mind?

[Madison]

I think just pitching in, say, I don't know, a thousand dollars a month, Something, something.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Where's he got money?

[Madison]

He has Social Security money and he gets other money.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So you guys don't have your finances combined at all?

[Madison]

We do have a joint checking account, but he's never put any money in it, so. No, I mean, does he have an.

[Dave Ramsey]

Avenue to do that?

[Madison]

He could. Yeah, he could. He could put money in there. Yeah. Because he's on the. He's on the account.

[Dave Ramsey]

But if he's looking at your vast amount of money in that account and he looks at his piddly. His piddly government check.

[Madison]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

See what I'm saying? Like, he needs to know. And I. Again, I think he's going to put $1,000 in that account. And that's not what the issue is going to be.

[Madison]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

If he started depositing a thousand dollars a month in that account, you'd be right back here in six months.

[Madison]

I don't know if I would be. I don't. It's really, It's. To me, it's like you just said, it's not about money. It's more about respect. And I think because this has gone on for so long and, you know, I've allowed it to go on so long and this pattern's been set. Now I want to rewrite the rules, I guess.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, since y'all are married, y'all get to rewrite them together.

[Madison]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so I think it's a matter of sitting down and having a conversation and say, hey, we've been married for a few years.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I need you to do this to have me have positive, respectful feelings towards you.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what can I do for you so that you can have positive, respectful feelings towards me? Yeah. Let's put all of it on the table. Let's give each other a chance for success.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. A hundred percent of what you don't say. He can't hear, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I've been married 43 years. I'm still working on that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dave. I am too, man. I am too.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The things that are in Sharon's head that I have never heard are amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you're in trouble for them.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm always in trouble.

[Dave Ramsey]

You better fix them.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What's wrong? Nothing. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, guys. I've never done this before, but I'm partnering with a nutrition company, Field of Greens. Each fruit and vegetable in Field of Greens is selected by doctors to support heart, liver and kidney health plus metabolism for healthy weight. And your doctor will notice your improved health or Field of Greens will give you your money back. I can get behind a promise like that. Go to fieldofgreens.com Ramsay and get 15% off with promo code Ramsay. Fieldofgreens.com Ramsay thanks for joining us, America. Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. We appreciate you guys hanging out. Hey, if you like what you hear around here, we could use your help. Please help us subscribe. Click the subscribe button. Click the share button or share a link or tell somebody where you're listening or watching or wherever it is you're youtubing or TB inning or whatever it is you're doing. You know, Spotify, right? Apple podcast, whatever it is. Maybe you're listening on radio station out there. Thank you. Just share and leave us a five star review, please. We'd appreciate it very much. Shay is. Whether Shay is in Daytona. Hi, Shay.

[Shay]

Hi. So just to cut right to the chase, I just took out my first student loan ever. Super nerve wracking. It's for my master's in social work and it's about 45,000. That's without the interest. So I'm just trying to figure out what's a great path to start on that, like how to tackle it super fast because I don't want to be with this debt for like 10 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

You just took out your first loan for a semester or you just finished a degree program and you have $45,000 in the hole.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No.

[Shay]

So it's I, it's six, it's like 6,000 a semester. But they just gave it all to me at once. So it's 40 grand. 45 grand is what they gave me at one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who's they? I've never heard of that, ever.

[Shay]

It's financial aid.

[Jennifer]

Fafsa.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Fafsa?

[Dave Ramsey]

So they just cut you a check and deposit it for $45,000?

[Shay]

Well, not into my bank. It goes directly to my school. And then they start paying it that way. So it's already given to my school, and my school just takes it out.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so you're starting your master's and you just finance the whole thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, Dave, I bet what's happened is. I bet they have. You've been approved for the entire program. I bet they don't have a check for. I bet your university doesn't have a check for $45,000 because they wouldn't prepay like that. Because you could quit, you can drop out. It could be a whole thing. But my guess is you are approved for the program, and the school gave you a letter that said you've qualified for $45,000 in federal aid. And every semester you're gonna have to re up and re up and re up and re up.

[Shay]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's my guess as to what happened. I've. I've never heard the government.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're just starting your masters.

[Shay]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you're spending $45,000 to get a master's in social work to make what kind of money?

[Shay]

Not enough. It's about 90 grand. Which would be salary. Yeah, the salary for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's no way you'll make 90 grand.

[Shay]

That's the. That is the salary in Florida for it. Where right now I work at a hospital.

[Dave Ramsey]

And this. A starting social worker with a LMSW makes $90,000.

[Shay]

Not starting out. No. But I've been doing social work and case management and all that stuff for years. So with the experience and once I get it, they're going. I'm already making 50.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Shay]

Right now, so they're bumping it up.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

I. That's. That's extraordinary. I'm good for them because that's. That's a. That's a field that needs more people that drastically is usually underpaid. I would. I. As a. As a guy who's. I've taught graduate school and mental health programs. I've lived this world. What I would plead to you is to you make $50,000 a year. I would cut back for the next three years and cash flow this program. Please, please, please don't chain yourself to the federal government and then try to go into a serving profession. It's a recipe for Burnout. And you're gonna. It's just gonna melt you from the inside out. Please don't do this.

[Shay]

Yeah, yeah, that was one of my big fears. It's just like, I definitely don't want it lingering for so long too. And when it comes to money, I just don't take over the way.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The way it doesn't lingers. You don't take it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't take it. Don't take the check.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Pay cash for your degree. Is What John saying?

[Dave Ramsey]

$6,000 a semester. Go pay it outright for the three semesters plus your 3,000 hours, whatever.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Your hospital not got any financial matching for education?

[Shay]

Not, no, because I'm not a nurse. They only have it for nurses.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Shay]

And what enticed me to it was because they said at first that they would, and then when I got here, they said, oh, sorry, no, it's just for nurses.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I'd find another place to work too, while you're at it. I'm serious. 100% serious. If they're gonna. If they're gonna lure you in and then they're gonna bait and switch you, I. That's just a. That's a company without integrity. I wouldn't work for them.

[Shay]

Gotcha.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I know this is a radical shift, but I would go to the school and say, hey, I need my semester by semester cost. And they're probably gonna tell you, well, it depends. If you take six or nine hours, whatever, and say, what is. What is a full time. And was a part time student gonna cost? And then you make $50,000 a year until you find another job where you'll make 60. I want you to cash flow this program.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So what we're trying to tell you is that uneasy feeling inside of you when you called is real.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And it's telling you, don't do this. And we're telling you it's right, don't do it. The best way to get this degree is pay cash for it. And, you know, look for someone, maybe another. Maybe another employer that pays 90 when you're out, but also will help with the education like this one promised, but it was reneged on. And so let's do a couple things here that are pretty radical, but if you kind of just. You sound pretty chill, and if you kind of just allow all this to happen to you, it's going to step on your face. Don't allow this to happen. You need to stand up, square your shoulders, and head straight into this with your teeth. You know, with a warrior Yale Girl, I mean, you need to get after it. John's in Jackson, Mississippi. Hey, John. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Justin]

Hey, Dave. How's it going?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Justin]

I have a question about getting an SBA loan to purchase a business. What's your thoughts on that?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Is never, never, never under any circumstances.

[Justin]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Disaster. Why would you buy it? Why would you buy a business, A small business?

[Justin]

Well, So I travel 10 months out of the year, and my wife stays at home with kids, and it's a taxing life.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Justin]

We're trying to find a happy medium for everybody, and we stumbled what we think is a good opportunity, per se, and we just.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What is the. What is the industry that the business you're looking at is in?

[Justin]

Making signs.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. And how much is the purchase? Approximately $1.2 million.

[Justin]

Yes, sir.

[Dr. John Deloney]

For a signed franchise.

[Justin]

It's not a franchise. It's a person that started the business, and he's looking to retire.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. All right, let me give you a different way to skin this cat. Maybe. Okay, but let me. 80% of small businesses fail in the first five years.

[Justin]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The number one cause of small business failure, when we survey them and we work with 10,000 small businesses in entre leadership right now, is what's called cash flow problems. Cash flow problems is a phrase that means a lot of things, but it primarily means two things. I can't pay my debt payments, and I didn't pay my taxes on time, and I get screwed by the federal government. And so you're gonna have a million two floating around your neck trying to drag you down while you're trying to run a business this guy's already been running for a few years. And that's like trying to swim with an anchor tied around your ankle. It's a bad plan. So let's go at this a different way. What is the net profit on his business?

[Justin]

He pays himself a salary, but, no.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What'S the net profit on the business.

[Justin]

On average over the last four years is around 250.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. A million two is a little rich.

[Justin]

Yeah, we know that part of it. We're just. We're in the beginning process, and we're trying to.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So here's how I have. Here's how I've taught some people who hand the business to the next generation and want to be bought out, or they have to. The employee or employee or a buyer like you that want to be bought out. I don't want you to get payments on a million two. And Fauci decide. We're having another quarantine.

[Justin]

Me neither.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. That'll put you into bankruptcy court, sir. It did a bunch of people. And because nobody making signs, they were making plexiglass, but they weren't making signs. So you were screwed if that was if you'd done this two years ago. So learn a lesson from that. Now what you can do is agree to pay him 80 or 90% of the profits after you take a basic small salary out until he gets his million. And about a million is about what it's worth. But if you made 250,000 a year on it and you gave him 90% of it, you'd have him paid out and four and a half years versus.

[Justin]

Getting a loan, per se.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Exactly. And he get his money really, really fast that way. But you're living on a wage to get till you get him off your back. But if profits go down, you're only committed to giving him a percentage of profits. So you're not, you're not bankrupt. Then SBA will come take your house. Dude, mortgage rates have dropped. So if you're thinking about buying a home in the next year, contact your local Churchill mortgage team right now. If you wait, more people will be in the market competing for the same homes and potentially driving up prices. Churchill will help you do the math to be sure your budget is correct, making your home a blessing and helping you build lasting wealth. Learn [e-mail] Churchill Mortgage.com this is a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Paid advertisement in MLS ID 1591 in mlsconsumeraccess.org Equal Housing Lender, 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100, Brentwood, TN 37027.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Hey guys, we would love your help and if you'd like to help us, here's how you can. Pretty simple. Doesn't cost you a thing, but a few moments of your time. Subscribe to the show. When you're listening on podcast or YouTube, click the follow button or the subscribe button, whatever it is, make sure you share the show. And that can be clicking a share button. Or it could be that you clip the link and send it to somebody and say, hey, listen to this show. Make sure you leave a five star review, hit the likes, all those kinds of things like that really help drive the algorithms that push the show to the front of the various platforms that we're on. And we're on almost everything. So thank you for being there. We appreciate you. We know that there's a bazillion of you new in the past six months based on our numbers and our data analytics and so forth. Thank you for showing up. We're glad you're here. But help us by sharing, subscribing, following and leaving. Five star reviews. Justin is in Hattiesburg, Mississippi. Hey, Justin. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Justin]

Hey. Thank you, Dave and John. It is awesome to talk to y'all. I'm excited.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Absolutely. How can we help?

[Justin]

So my wife and I are on baby step two and we're trying to get really Gazelle Intense to pay off our debt. And I wanted to see if you and Dr. John could speak to the physical and mental challenge of working 80 to 90 hours a week. On the physical side, being like, you know, fatigue, lack of sleep. And on the mental side, you know, your mind is telling you to call it a day when you still need to grind out, you know, those last few hours to make a really good week.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Why are you losing sleep? You have plenty of sleep time left.

[Justin]

Well, I guess like, you know, a day you work 16 hours and you have, you know, an hour commute and you know, eating and stuff like that, you may get, you know, five to six. And on a longer day, you know, you may get four hours of sleep.

[Dave Ramsey]

I often see folks try to continue the life they were living before they went Gazelle Intense and they try to squeeze it in. Meaning. I used to watch all the shows. Well, now I have to just watch my two. And there's an hour right there or there's an hour and a half. And I want to go to every single little league game. Well, during Gazelle Intensity, you're gonna probably have to miss some games because you gotta work some shifts and that's okay. Cause you're playing a longer game. But I would wonder how much, how much all in are you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, if there's some of that. And yeah, check your actual time audit on where your actual hours are going. Number one, then sleep is necessary. The second thing though is you're not asking yourself to do this long term. This is a short sprint, right? It's not. It's not. This is not sustainable for five years. And that's not what we're asking ourselves to do. And I got a feeling just in talking to you, that you have done in the past, maybe in sports or something else, you've done something where you stretched yourself to a limit. And if you, if you're a person who's done that, you've experienced what any of us that have done that physical or mental or otherwise, you Never return to the same shape after that. That's the benefit of the stretch.

[Justin]

Yes, sir, I have. God has really blessed me with a body that can handle a lot.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. And so, you know, once you've done a half marathon, you've done a marathon, you've done a, whatever the thing is that pushed you physically and mentally or whatever, then you, it changes your level of confidence, it changes the way you're swagger, the way you look at the world after that because you accomplished the goal and you know, you break the tape and you go on. So that's the way that I have done it is number one, I look at it as a short term play. And so it's not going to kill me because right before you die from hard work, you pass out. Don't worry about it. I mean, it's okay. So, but the, so it's not going to kill me and it's short term. And then the second thing is that I'm going to get more benefits than just the money. In this case, you're doing it to make a lot of money, to get out of debt. Okay, But I'm going to get character benefits, emotional, psychological, spiritual benefits, even relational benefits. Because as a couple, we now know we can do things we didn't know we could do before. As an individual, I now know I can do that because before I. And it gives me a different level of, well, if I can do that then I can do another thing. And if I can do that then I can do another thing. And that's, that's what this is versus being the typical fat American sitting on their couch watching Netflix and never stretches themselves at all.

[Dave Ramsey]

And Justin, there's some incredible neuroscience that is obviously this doesn't, you can't, you can't game then or hack this system. But you've known people who get under a squat bar and they feel that weight and they get that weird smile. And there's been people who get under that bar and it's like, ah, too heavy and they get off. One of those people says, this pain is gonna be worth this. Watch this. And then the other person says, I need to opt out of this pain right now. And so there's, it's the, your mindset as you're driving home. You can be like, I'm so tired. I hate all this. This is the worst. I'm so tired. I just clicked, another click.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How long you been married?

[Justin]

We've been married five years.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How's she doing with all this?

[Justin]

That's interesting. You asked that One of the other kind of hard things for me is like, say that she has a day off and I'm at work, you know, when it's those last few hours when I still got, you know, four hours left and I'm already tired. And she sends me a text like, you know, I miss you, ready to see you. I'm thinking myself, I'm like, man, I'm ready to see you too. I want to come home. But I'm like, you know, I need to stay here another few hours.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, it's like, I know you lost 50 pounds, but here's some fresh baked cookies.

[Dave Ramsey]

But also, also, again, that's your mindset, bro. Because she's reaching out, saying, I want you to know I'm not at work with you, but I'm in this with you, right? And it's real easy for you to be like, oh yeah, you know what I mean? So, yeah, do your best to, I mean, you're all in a short sprint. Do, do your best to roll that out.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So the good news is she's not, she's not whining about, she's not going, hahaha.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh yeah, you never, you're never home with me. Why aren't you ever home with me? She's not doing that to you. She just said, man, I miss you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I wish you were here because I'm, I'm married to a country girl. It's a hillbilly. And if they learned one thing at her house growing up, it was unbelievable hard work. She has no patience for people that won't work hard, especially if it was her husband. And so I got the opposite. I'm like, get your butt out of here and get this mess cleaned up. What's wrong with you? You know, and so it was. She kicked me out the door, you know, and so occasionally now when I don't need to work, she's like, would you go to work and get away? You know, like. And so, you know, so the. But she. But that. So I had the benefit of a spouse that was beyond supportive. Supportive is not the correct term.

[Dave Ramsey]

She supported you with her foot.

[Dr. John Deloney]

With her foot, yeah, that's it. But I mean, you know, in your case, you've got a sweet one that's being sweet and saying, I miss you, but I'm proud of you. So you might even tell her that. Just go, hey, listen, when you do that, it makes me not angry with you, but it makes me angry with this whole situation. It makes it hard to work five more hours. So if you would do that and just add to the end of it. I'm proud of you. You got this. It sure would help me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or. When my wife was pregnant with Josephine, after she had. We had. Had Hank, she gave me a list. It was not a long list, but it was a short list. But she gave me a list of questions I was not allowed to ask in the hospital and when she was in labor. And I said, why did you do this? And she said, because I know you love me and I know you're going to ask. How are you feeling? Does that hurt? Are you okay? Do you need anything? And she said, when you ask those.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Questions, it makes me want to strangle you.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want to set my eyeballs on fire just enough to look at your face.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Your eyeballs.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right? So she said, I. The best way you can love me is don't do this. I'll let you know if I need some. And so I think for you, just like Dave just said, if you let her know. Hey. When you reach out. Ah, man. I know you're telling me that you're proud of me, you love me, but it just makes me hate being at work and then. Which makes me hate myself and makes me hate all this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can you just text me and say, I'm so proud of you, and I'll know that you miss me?

[Dr. John Deloney]

When you're. When you're running the stadium stairs, you. You have no memory of doing that. When you look at the scoreboard at the end of the super bowl and you won.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you make that catch. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You have no memory of running the stadium stairs. Your brain does. Your brain allows you to do the only celebration. Justin, you're a stud, man. I'm proud of you, and I think you're gonna be okay. The good news is you're smart enough to talk about it and say, I'm tired. You're smart enough to even take a look. Take. Okay, I gotta take a day. I'm done. I gotta take at least a day. I can't breathe. You know where your limits are. But pushing those limits is not a permanent thing. It's not a way of life. It's a moment in time. And the benefits are going to exceed the pain. I can promise you live like no one else, so that later you can live and give like no one else. One of the questions I get all the time is, which life insurance company should I use for my term life policy? A valid question, since there are hundreds of companies out there with rates all over the place and riders and add ons that are simply a waste of money. You need to get this done and make the right decision. That's why the only company I use and have recommended for over 25 years is Zander Insurance. Zander is a broker who shops the top term life companies for you and finds the best rates available from the only plans I recommend. They also save you time. Whether you want to work online, over the phone or via text, their team will cater to your needs and help you make the right decision. This is an absolute necessity and Zander has made the process easy and convenient. Call them at 800-356-4282 or visit zander.com for instant online quotes. So our producer James went through the archives and a thousand years ago, when Blake Thompson was producing this show, he actually did a comedy bit on detanol. John thought I made that up just a few minutes ago and I couldn't take credit for it because actually Blake made it up and James found the old comedy bit. Do you have any. Does it have a date on it?

[Justin]

It doesn't, but I would.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's got to be 20 plus years. Yeah, it's over 20 years ago, easy.

[Dave Ramsey]

It was before there was color on TV.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All right, here's from from over 20 years ago what the the Ramsey show, then called the Dave Ramsey show, might.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have sou like nationally syndicated talk radio host Dave Ramsey has often said that there is no magic pill for getting out of debt. Well, sorry, Mr. Ramsey, but there is. And it's called dentinol. Dettinol is a 100% all natural drug that is guaranteed to control your spending and control your desire to overspend. One pill a day and you will no longer feel the need to spend money you don't have. We have created this drug because we care about you. The pill that cares. Minor side effects may include fatigue, headache, my head, nervousness, sore throat, explosive diarrhea, insomnia, I can't sleep, drowsiness, I can't stay awake, Horrible nightmares, gastronomical trauma.

[Jennifer]

Oh, my.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hallucinations. That rabbit just said my name.

[Dave Ramsey]

Chronic halitosis, a slight cough and a runny nose. Dentinol brought to you by the credit Card association of America. Credit the easy way. Oh, this show used to be so good. Dave, what happened?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, we brought on co hosts and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Co host, got rid of Blake. The good old days. You used to walk uphill both ways.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Always in the snow. Yeah, that was probably done on a cassette tape. Actually, I'm trying to think. I know the voice. Well, the voice on the Disclaimer Is Blake, the other voice? What I think was Bill Hampton is Bill Hampton. Is it? Okay, so, yeah, that's. It's over 20 years, then maybe 25 years old. Yeah, that's funny. I don't care who you are. Still. Still work. So timeless. Timeless. All right, we'll have five orders on the Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Somebody will ask for hell.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You guys were advertising. Jordan is in Los Angeles. Hi, Jordan. How are you?

[Jordan]

I'm doing well, Dave, thank you.

[William]

How are you doing?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Jordan]

Yes, I just have a couple questions because I'm interested. Like a constant financial panic, anxiety, worry, a lot of it stemming from the environment outside of me. I can go into numbers with everything from personally in a bit. I'll give you a little background. So I did have a lot of early success in my late teens, early 20s. I'm now 27 within the entertainment industry and also just working my butt off. I've always been a good saver. And then, unfortunately, Covid hit, which shut down my little role I had going on. And then also at the same time, I came down with a pretty severe, debilitating underlying disease of Cushing's disease, lupus, and rheumatoid arthritis that has developed throughout the years. So all of that has just led me to think that what is my future gonna look like? Because it's very hard for me to do physical labor. My work right now is pretty limited, and I've just been stuck in this rut of. I don't wanna. I'm anxious to. When I have to spend something as small as, like, putting 20 bucks in for gas all the way up to my rent, I'm just living in this fear and panic for my future. And I've been trying to think of an income stream because of my ailments. It makes it very difficult. And I've always been so going. So that's what's frustrating because my body is holding me back. I have, like, that entrepreneur mindset, but I just don't know what it is for me.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We can best help you today, son.

[Jordan]

I don't know how to manage what to do with the money I currently have.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, how much money do you currently have?

[Jordan]

So I have. I'm incorporated. I incorporated when I was younger after I got a pretty nice job. I have a. In my business checking right now, I have about 24,500. I opened up a business CD, which has about 92,000 in there. I have a checking account of 8,000 right now. I have a savings account of 52,500. I have a checking CD of 40,600. I have, I did have. I wasn't a mutual fund when I was younger and there was some issues with the accountant who was advising it, and so those got liquidated. And during my time when I was young, I just watched a bunch of videos and of course I bought a bunch of precious metals with a lot of that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How much is that?

[Jordan]

I have about 40 ounces of gold and 900 ounces of silver, which I believe right now is close to $100,000 total.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, you've got about 400,000 bucks. Are you making any money currently?

[Jordan]

And I do also have. I opened up a robo advisor in Schwab recently because I just felt like I was just doing nothing with my money.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, house man, where do you live?

[Jordan]

I do, I live in Los Angeles. I'm still renting.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you have an income at the moment?

[Jordan]

I do not. I'm in SAG and.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nobody's working. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would be willing to bet, just friend to friend, you struggle with anxiety when you were younger, right?

[Jordan]

Started in my late teens, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the first time you remember that your body kind of took off on you and it scared you?

[Jordan]

In terms of my health or my anxiety?

[Dave Ramsey]

Both. Because they work together.

[Jordan]

Yeah. Well, about 20 year. 19. 19 years old, my anxiety took off. My health ailments kicked in a couple years later.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's. And, and, and again, I don't want to get over my skis here. And this, this. We could talk for hours on it, but a autoimmune body is a body that is so red lined out that it's been trying to shut you down for a long time. And it will find another way to shut you down. Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Because it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's tired of. It's tired of fighting and swinging and running from everything. And that's what you just described.

[Justin]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And when you struggle with anxiety as a younger kid, it sometimes looks different than it does when you're an adult. But then when you take that angst and then you go put it up on a stage or on a screen and all those voices telling you what to. How to look and what to stand and what you shouldn't do and where you should go, man, that's just a. That's like taking a blender and putting it inside of a, you know, a jet engine. Right. And spinning that sucker up. And it doesn't surprise me a. That you've been very, very successful. Because you're clearly brilliant and you have been able to keep some of the anxiety demons at bay through achievement and accomplishment in Attaboys. And it also doesn't surprise me that your body said, I'm shutting you, I'm shutting you down.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I caught up with you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Does that sound familiar?

[Jordan]

Oh, very. It's very frustrating because again, I, I will work and do whatever I have to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

And right now, here's what's important.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I don't think you're afraid of work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, no, you work. Dave's gonna talk to you about the money. I want you to know that if Dave, if you follow Dave's steps and clean up all your money and that's all you do, you're going to go with you on that journey and you're going to have cleaned up money and you're going to have an ounce of security there and then your brain's going to leapfrog to the next thing. And you know that, right? Because it's been leapfrogging on you for years.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. So what, what you've. While you've been an incredible income earner and it's apparent that you've done something that had incredible talent because people paid you a lot of money for it. So what you'd never had in any of these situations is a sense of control. You didn't feel like you're, you felt like even though you had a big old pile of money, you still didn't feel like it was all in control. And it still, today doesn't feel like it's in control. So I think there's probably a two pronged approach here, and that would be you called on the perfect day with Dr. John DeLoney. Here is you getting a sense of control in your life, a sense of the chaos pushed back and you choosing to set up really firm boundaries with a whole bunch of things and say, this is what I do, this is what I don't do, this is what I do, this is what I don't do. And you've got some very clear kind of a black and white type response to everything because you're creative brain allows you to work out about 73 scenarios simultaneously instead of yes or no. And you just need to get real simplified and go to yes or no. And so no, we don't do precious metals. Let's go ahead and cash those out and get those into cash. No, we don't walk around with no income. So let's try to figure out something we can put our hand to. Yeah, we're going to send you a book called Own youn Past, Change youe Future from Dr. John DeLoney. Read through that because there's a whole lot of what's going on in that book is going on with you.

[Dave Ramsey]

We'll send him Building an Unnexus Life too. I think that would be a good book for him.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Can we get it out of here? Yeah. Okay, good. Let's send them both of those and throw in a total money makeover book. We'll help you with the money part too. But you it's controlling the controllables that's going to get this moving. This is the Rams show. Do you ever feel like you're finally making progress towards your goals only to get quickly distracted by something else in your feed? Well, that's why we created the Ramsey Network app. Your single source for content that keeps you motivated. The Ramsey Network app is designed to keep you laser focused on reaching your goals. Loaded with over 7,000 hours of Ramsey shows, this free app is the best place for uninterrupted content and no distractions. Plus, you can search specific questions to get more personalized content in seconds. So for the days you need some extra motivation, you'll have proven advice at your fingertips. It's time to get serious about your goals and shut out the distractions for good. Simply search Ramsey Network in the App Store or Google Play. If you're listening on a podcast, just click the link in the show notes to download our free Ramsey Network app. Today, live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create action mutual, amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John DeLoney, number one best selling author, host of the Dr. John DeLoney show on the Ramsey Network, one of the more popular YouTube and podcasts in America. Today, he's my co host. Open phones at Jennifer is with us in San Antonio, Texas. Hi Jennifer. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Jennifer]

Hi, thanks for speaking with me today. Sure. I really appreciate it as I love you, Dave. But I think my question is probably a little more for John. So not to like hurt your ego or anything, but I have.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He's got two PhDs. I just have one. Mine is in, in his ego.

[Dave Ramsey]

Trust me, it's doing just fine.

[Jennifer]

Sorry, my bad. I just, I was like I never thought I'd call Dave Ramsey show and then not want to like totally focus on Dave Ramsey and Papa Dave.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're so sweet.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're awesome.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're sweet. How can we help I'll be okay. How can John help? What's up?

[Jennifer]

I'm calling because. So I had a bankruptcy in 2021, and, you know, I'm debt free and, well, I'm debt free after, you know, paying the kgb. I mean, irs. And then I was one of the very few that had their public service. You know, I work for the federal government and I was one of very few that had their loans forgiven. I've worked for the federal government for 13 years, and I feel, like, a lot of shame. I feel shame about the bankruptcy, but then I also feel a lot of shame about public service forgiveness in a way, because, like, I mean, I took advantage of the program that was available to me. And I, like, I'm proud of serving the government so long, but I guess I feel a little, I don't know, I tell people not to, like, count on it all the time and that there's, you know, all the data shows that very few people are ever going to have it happen to them and don't want them to count on it. You know, I just happen to be in that window where it worked for me. And so it's like, I won the lottery, but I'm, like, ashamed that I won it a little bit. And.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So, Jennifer, Jennifer, I'm actually going to change direction a little bit. Is that okay?

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

When it comes to shame, I can talk about it all day long, but lucky for you, you have you called a number where there's more than just academic answers. I actually think the person I talked to is Dave. He's been there.

[Jennifer]

Okay, well, I see. I have one. What do I know? The two guys. The guy with the PhD doesn't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

I can talk about it, but Dave can talk from a lived experience, which is much more valuable.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So what caused your bankruptcy?

[Jennifer]

I, you know, I made good money, but I have a disability, and I was only going to work, like, two weeks. A month after my brother died, the disability became so extreme, all these medical issues that had come up. So even though I was following the Dave Ramsey plan, like, what's up?

[Dr. John Deloney]

What's the nature of your disability, honey?

[Jennifer]

I have major depressive disorder. And after my brother died, I became, like, suicidal. And it was real extreme. And so.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you had. And you had debts that you couldn't pay because of that?

[Jennifer]

Yes, I was making bare minimum payments. And then I went to the bishop to even get help. So for a year, about 18 months, the bishop and I literally sat down at my church, like, every month. Like, how can we dig you out of this hole. But the medical bills were still so high that I still couldn't. Even though I had this big shovel, the medical bills just kept coming and then I couldn't. I was really struggling to work over and over.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, give me a favor, Jennifer, will you take a real, real, real deep breath? As deep as you can. Take it super deep. And I want you to hold it for three, two, exhale. There's a lot of people in the world that are giving you a lot of advice and running their mouth and telling you should be doing this, and Dave and I are not going to do that. We're sitting here with you.

[Madison]

Okay, okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't have to. I can. I can hear you trying to outrun the shame in a circle right on the phone with us. You don't have to do that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, okay, here's the thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're with you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

When I file bankruptcy at 28 years old, the reason for my bankruptcy was I had borrowed too much money. I had borrowed it in such a way that it allowed the banks to come and take my freaking head off. Yes, it was my fault. I don't think a person who has issues with depression, becoming depressed after the loss of their brother is something you did wrong. So my actions were shameful. Your actions were not shameful.

[Jennifer]

Well, I feel like the debt actions were shameful that I put myself in such a bad position.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You were vulnerable because of that, but you probably would have made it without bankruptcy if you hadn't been unable to work for a period of time.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, the bishop said that actually when we sat down, I mean, every month he's like, if you weren't so sick now, I think we could help you. Like he was helping me, even with rent, you know. But at one point he said, you know, tithing and the, you know, because we're stewards of the Lord's money. You know, he's like, this is a hand up, not a hammock. He's all, but every month I see that you're putting everything you can into pain. But I think this might be our only.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so let me ask you this.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's obviously the loss of your brother. That tragedy is in the rearview mirror. Are you doing things to deal with the depression issues?

[Jennifer]

Yes, I see.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So what I did in my case was. In my case was I did something, some things to deal with my stupidity. And so I'm not going to make the same mistakes again. And therefore I don't have to sit and be wringing my hands about the shame. Of the bankruptcy. The bankruptcy in my case was caused by me. So there was shame. It was shame inducing for sure. Okay. But the way I dealt with it, to answer your question, was I said, okay, what steps do I have to take to be a different person that causes this to never happen again? If I take those steps, then the things in my rear view mirror, it's just one of the many stupid things I've done in my life that I don't have to do again.

[Shay]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And Jennifer, can we agree that sometimes you feel things and those feelings aren't true?

[Jennifer]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know that to be tough tells.

[Jennifer]

Me that all the time.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but listen, not all the.

[Jennifer]

Time, but it does come up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's what you're going to do. I want you to keep a journal with you of the things you feel when you feel like you're taking advantage of folks and you feel like you should have. I want you to write that down and I want you to hold it at arm's length and ask yourself, is this true?

[Jennifer]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I want you to be objective about it. Because if you can't be objective, take it to your counselor and say, is this true? Because the answer is going to be no. But when you have a feeling and you begin to believe that feeling, then your body's off to the races.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Zero shame.

[Dave Ramsey]

Zero.

[Dr. John Deloney]

For the. For the student loan forgiveness, None. And the shame on the. Any part you had with irresponsibility, you say, I'm not doing that anymore. Any part you had with taking on too much debt, I'm not doing that anymore. But the depression taking you away from work, I'm not blaming you for that one, kiddo. That one's in your rearview mirror too, though the beautiful thing about life is the rear view mirror is smaller than the windshield. That's called grace. Walk in that, kiddo. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Dave Ramsey]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This month is all about gratitude. And most of us have people in our lives who we're grateful for. One of those people, for me, is the great Jean Noel Thompson. He taught me how to be a dad, a husband, a professional, and how to balance caring for a bunch of people all at the same time. We all know of somebody else we can be grateful for. But there's one person that we often don't take time to thank. Ourselves. We don't always acknowledge that we're surviving, that we're moving forward, and that we're working towards a better life and better relationships. And in a world where everything's gone bonkers. It's not always easy. So here's my reminder to thank the people that you love, thank the people in your life, and thank you. Sometimes we need some professional help to talk to somebody trained to help us discover true gratitude for ourselves and others, especially in the holiday season. That's why I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, and you can talk with your therapist at any time so it's convenient for your schedule. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. Plus, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L p.com DeLoney hey, if you're like me, this time of year feels bananas. Thanksgiving just flies by and then you blink and the kids are out of school, family's in town, and somehow there's glitter everywhere. Pure chaos. Let's face it, the last thing you need right now is money stress. If you want to lighten your mental load this year, do yourself a favor and go download everydollar. It's my favorite budgeting app, and it can help you create a game plan for your spending so you can focus on what really matters this time of year. Listen, the holiday season is going to be busy. There's no getting around that. But let's be busy enjoying our families instead of stressing out about money. Head over to the App store and download everydollar right now to get started for free.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Thanks for being with us, America. Open phones at Triple H825-5225. Thanks for being here. Hey, based on our rankings, we're in the top 10 podcasts in the entire world. Top 15 podcasts in the entire world. And that has gone up recently based on our ratings on radio, based on our Spotify and our Apple numbers and our YouTube numbers, there's a whole bunch of you that are new. Thank you. We're honored to have you in our audience. We will love you and we will tell you the truth. And sometimes that will make you mad. Just be prepared because we love you and we will tell you the truth. That's what we do. And if you want to help us, we're not going to spend 300 million on marketing like a sofa. We're not buying a, like a football stadium or something. Allergies are bad this time of year. And. But the if you want to help us, you can subscribe, follow the show, whatever it is, whichever way you do it, click the subscribe button, click the follow button, click the share button and send it on. Send it on. Yeah, send it on to them and good stuff. Let people know about Leave us a five star review. Mama said if you hang anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. So five stars work. Thank you very much. We're glad you're here. We appreciate you being with us. Williams in San Antonio, Texas. Remember the Alamo. What's up, William?

[William]

Oh, good afternoon, Dave. After I had a rather unfortunate financial incident and in our marriage happened last fall, my wife got victimized in an Internet fraud and not only lost a sizable amount of cash, but also took out some loans to help these people. And some of those were short term credit card things like buying gift cards. And then there were two installment loans. One was for 23,500, one was for 17,500. The rest of them, the smaller credit cards and such, I'm using the snowball method to take care of those. But I need advice on the installment loans.

[Dave Ramsey]

When it comes to this fraud, it's usually one of two things. Usually it's some sort of romantic interest or it's some sort of somebody crying out for help with medical assistance or some sort of injustice. What is it in your, in your, in your situation?

[William]

It would, it would be the former. My wife and I have been having been having some problems, been together for 25 years and things just kind of, I don't know, they happened and I didn't, didn't see the warning signs.

[Dave Ramsey]

How's your marriage now?

[William]

But it's, it's much better. I've been, I've been getting therapy and she has been too. And we've been making some inroads and just basic stuff like how we speak to each other and I'm proud of you, man. That's hard, right? Try. Well, here's the thing. I have a bunch of people tell me, well, I would, I would divorce somebody that would do that. And I'm not going to throw away 25 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[William]

I said I would make a full year as a concerted effort to get this thing turned around financially and emotionally. And part of the emotional thing is me. I realized I needed to do some work and so we're both doing therapy and it seems to be benefiting.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you're, you're a beacon of light for men who are. Find themselves in emotional situations without the right tools in the toolkit and you can do one of two things. You can just take up your toolkit and go home, or you can. You can storm the gates of hell and try to find more tools. And that's what you're doing, man. I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Amen.

[William]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's awesome.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What's your household income, sir?

[William]

Oh, 69,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. Does she work outside the home?

[William]

No, we're. We're both in our mid-70s. No, we're both retired.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, boy.

[William]

So there's money there to take care of the short term stuff.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The money. You have a nest egg.

[William]

We still have some resources, a 401K. And I have some. I have some money in my account. All the debts are in her name.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What is the. How much money is in your account?

[William]

$45,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And how much money is in your 401k?

[William]

About the same loads.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm not counting these two installment loans. How much miscellaneous is there? The little credit card? Mosquitoes.

[William]

Yeah, I'm gonna say 9, 10,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All right.

[William]

I've got an income tax refund check coming in. The 2000 is going to get knocked off for that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I would write a check out. I would write a check out of yours today and pay off all the credit cards. That leaves the 40 and close all the accounts. Okay. Now that is a gesture on your part towards the healing that you're searching for. The 40 is still sitting there. We'll come back to that in a minute. Then I want to meet with her and her therapist and your therapist, and however y'all are doing this marriage stuff, and somehow you've got to get some checks and balances and start to incrementally rebuild trust that you're not throwing good money after bad. And this doesn't happen again because in the back of your mind, you're. If I clean this out and this happens again, I ain't got anywhere to go. That's what's happening in the back of your mind. So you've got to know that this is solid going forward before you write any more big checks. But $9,000 in the scope of your life, you would pay that right now for healing, and I would. Yeah, yeah. Get rid of all the mosquitoes. Get it down to 17. 5 and 23. 5. And then let's just sit there with those two while we work on this relationship. And as your trust reaches closer to 100%, and that is going to require some demonstrations as well as on her part and your part and healing and some time to rebuild. And as that is rebuilt and you approach 100% on that, then I'm going to start trying to figure out a way to get those paid off. But right now I want to clear the white noise, the clutter out of my mind with all these little bills that. Because every time you write a check on this, it picks the scab, it opens the wound and I'm trying to get it down to write in just two checks.

[William]

That's very perceptive. You're right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, I get pissed off all over again every time you do this. And you have to go through the whole process you've been doing in therapy, start forgiveness again. You start. Have to go back through the whole thing and you start. Start having all these conversations between your ears. We all do this. That's how I know I wouldn't be guilty of it. No, not me. But yeah, but I mean, yeah, you write checks for things that remind you of bad things. It's bad.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, Dave, at what point does. And again, in service of choosing reality, just owning this is where we find ourselves. Do two people in their 70s have to commit to going back to work for a year and earn another $40,000 to pay these debts?

[Dr. John Deloney]

If she's of good health, I mean, I would talk to her therapist about this. I'm not going to intervene in that. But if she's of good health, sounds.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like both of them.

[Dr. John Deloney]

She's trying to re. Earn trust and you know, I'm 12 stepping here. But you know, make amends good. Make amends.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I think she goes back to work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And starts working on these other two loans. I think that's not because of financial, but just I think that's a representative movement towards owning this.

[Dave Ramsey]

It will give a place for that energy too, you know?

[Dr. John Deloney]

You know, make amends. It is a 12 step thing. And so you got to go back and where you can correct the wrongs, it's part of being repentant or sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, and nobody wants to work in their 70s and that's where we find ourselves.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. And nobody wants to get scammed by a romance on the Internet. But that's where we find ourselves. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys, I'm not a fan of the big banks and you probably already know which ones I mean, but I do like credit unions because they're nonprofit organizations that focus on their members. And I'm proud to endorse Fair Winds Credit Union because they share the Ramsey mission of helping people get out of debt and live generously. In fact, they design products to help keep you from going into debt in the first place. Fairwinds has been in business for over 75 years and they serve hundreds of thousands of members worldwide. You can feel secure because your deposits are federally insured by the NCUA, up to $250,000. It's easy to join, and Fairwinds partners with more than 5,000 credit union locations around the country, so you can bank in person wherever you live. But if you prefer the online experience, you can log on to Fairwinds and do anything you could do at a physical location. So go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey to learn more. And while you're there, look at the combined checking and savings account bundle they created just for Ramsey fans to help you take control of your finances. That's fair winds. F A I R W I n d s.org Ramsey hey, listen up guys. Black Friday deals start right now. Yep, you heard that right. You don't have to wait until Black Friday or even leave the house to get great deals on our most popular gifts. You can get our best selling hardcover books for just $12 and audiobooks for just 8. Give like no one else this season with gifts that actually mean something to your loved ones. Go to Ramsaysolutions.com store to shop the deals today. That's Ramsaysolutions.com store. Thank you for joining us America. Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality, is my co host. Today. The Ramsey Show Question of the day is brought to you by why Refi? Student loan debt is a swamp of thousands of people and they find it hard to escape. So don't be another statistic in the student loan swamp. For distressed private student loans, there's why Refi we trust. Why refi? Because they help you with a low fixed rate interest rate that you couldn't get anywhere else. Nobody else will touch this stuff and they'll help you put together a budget you can actually do and get out of debt. So learn [e-mail] Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, today's question comes from Marissa in Alabama. Marissa asks, how do you tell the difference between having the talent of compassion or discernment and the compulsion to help as a trauma response? Is it possible that a quote unquote talent may have developed as a survival mechanism and another talent not developed well due to trauma? I mean, my gut reaction here is it doesn't matter. It's an academic exercise. If you are helping other people to the point that you can eat or stay whole, or you are in an abusive relationship in order to keep other people from getting mad at you, then that's not healthy. I often say that the skills people learn when they're kids to survive can become some of the greatest skills professionally for them. But if. If all it says doesn't matter, I don't. I don't think it matters. Am I missing the question, Dave?

[Dr. John Deloney]

No. It feels like there's kind of two possible feelings for me. I mean, one is I don't trust a guy that doesn't walk with a limp.

[Dave Ramsey]

Correct.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So if. If you got it all together and you're perfect, you're full of crap, you scare me. If you survived, yeah, but I went through bankruptcy. I lost everything because I was stupid. Which informs my ability to do this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But I'm not doing it as a. As a healing mechanism to get over my past trauma. I'm utilizing that experience to give insight to the future. That's a healthy way to do it. Yes, I guess if you're doing it as a coping mechanism.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or you can be a parasite, you can be a vampire using other people so that you feel better. Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's a coping mechanism. That's not a he. You're not healed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Correct? Absolutely.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But so if the trauma, the. The damage from the trauma, the wound is. Is what's driving this, I think that's a problem, isn't it?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's. And that's one of my rules is I don't talk about things. You, you shouldn't be in the business of trying or help other people with open wounds. Right. And how do you know the wound's still open? Can you talk about what happened? And your heart rate doesn't take off as though it's happening in real time. That's how you know. Can you talk about your mom passing away from an ugly three year bout of cancer? And you're not overwhelmed with emotion. You might still be sad, you might still feel heavy, but you can have the conversation. That's how you know if you're overwhelmed.

[Dr. John Deloney]

With emotion, you're not in a position to help someone.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your body. That's right. That's. Dr. Young used to teach us, don't bring your chaos to other people's hurting situation. So. But here's the thing. If you're good at a thing because.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You'Ve got a scar that's healed, God bless you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Use it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get out there, man.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Get out there. A scar that's healed is the trick, I think, yes. And I might be wrong, but I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Know you're 100% right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You know, and that doesn't mean. I mean, I still think it's okay for people to criticize me and say, how can you possibly give financial advice? You're the guy that went bankrupt. You know, and I'm. I get it. You know, I get that. But I do have insight because of that that someone who's never been bankrupt doesn't have.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. So here's. Here's another way to look at this. So let's say you're a child raised in the home of two alcoholics, people.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Who struggle with alcohol, adult child of an alcoholic.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you learned how to get really small and to make sure the people around you were okay. And you just learned that. Is it okay to then go into a job where you are ahead of hospitality somewhere where your job is to disappear and to help other people have a great experience? No, it's not a bad thing. If you're doing it out of a compulsion because you have to, like you were talking about earlier, then it's not healthy because you're never going to become a whole because you're always going to be looking for healing out there. But yes, if you have some talents that you learned while trying to stay safe and survive, that's amazing. That's like our friends who go over and they are Navy seals and they come back and they. They walk with business leaders who are going through, you know, challenging times and how to communicate under stress, and that's fantastic. You learn new talents under duress, and now you're using those to help the rest of us. That's amazing. So.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So is if she says the phrase the compulsion to help as a trauma response, that would that be functioning out of the wound and not out of a healed wound?

[Dave Ramsey]

Absolutely.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So if you, yeah. If you feel like it's a compulsion to help out of a trauma response, then it's wrong. But if you got discernment and compassion because of trauma, that's a healed wound and that's a scar.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's the difference. I have to versus I get to.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Compulsion if I have to. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like when someone calls and says, hey, can you come serve at this local church thing? You're like, I've got to do this. That's not a good. That's not a good thing. That's childhood nonsense. If you are, you say, you know what? I get to go help over there. That's pretty cool. Then that's a gift Then I would say you're, well, go get it. Go get it done.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's interesting. I like that. Great question. Very interesting question. You know, what the, the other thing about a question like that I always think of is, old Bible teacher used to tell me is, you know, probably if you ask that question, you don't have a problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. Or you've recognized a problem and now you have a path to healing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, but I mean, you're, you're wrecking, you're seeing things at a proper angle.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but, and I'll tell you, my, my initial that question was, I just think the modern mental health ecosystem, universe, whatever, wants us to second guess and deep dive and yada yada on every single thing. And I think there is so much research coming out saying, go do the next right thing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's a lot of naval gauging.

[Dave Ramsey]

Go do the next right thing. And if you can help people based on what happened to your kid, man, that's the gospel, right? That's restoration. It's all things made new. Go use what happened for good if you're healed. Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Or if you're, you know, doing it out of a healed place.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You know, so forth.

[Dave Ramsey]

So good.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Phone Number here is, calling-882-55-5225. David is in Grand Rapids. Hi, David, how are you? Hi.

[Justin]

I'm doing great. Thank you for having me.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sure. What's up? My wife and I, we've always refused.

[Justin]

To go into debt for anything other than a mortgage.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Good.

[Justin]

This last week, we just paid off our house. We did a 15 year mortgage, paid it off in four years, four months.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're amazing. Thank you. How old are you?

[Jordan]

I'm 33.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What's the house worth?

[Justin]

It's about 390 right now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Way to go. How much in your nest egg and your 401ks and stuff?

[Justin]

Yeah. So our Roth IRAs, between the two of us, we got about 366,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Dude, you're going to be a millionaire when you're 35. Way to go. That's the goal.

[Justin]

Then we have mutual funds also.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's about 118,118. Wow.

[Justin]

Good.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Good for you.

[Justin]

Our total annual income between the two of us is approximately $120,000. The question I have, long story short, my in laws own some hunting property. My father in law passed away this past May. My mother in law's ready to sell the property. She wants to keep it in the family if possible. We would love to buy it. She's willing to sell it to us for 122,000. And she's willing to do a zero percent land contract.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No.

[Justin]

And the terms?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Absolutely not. You have the money. Writer a check.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Cash out your mutual fund.

[Justin]

Cash out mutual funds is what you recommend?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Absolutely. You don't want to be in debt to your mother in law. It changes the way Thanksgiving dinner tastes. I'm not kidding. Borrower, slave to the lender. The air in the room changes when you sit down with your master.

[Justin]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Don't do it. You know how free you felt when you paid off that mortgage? Yes. Don't screw that up.

[Justin]

Yeah. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Especially on a hierarchy. I'd rather owe a bank than my mother in law. And my mother in law is awesome, but man.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, this is. This is bad, bad, bad, bad juju right here. Yeah. And you got the money?

[Justin]

Would it be dumb of me to.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Buy the property or what?

[Justin]

Should I just.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, you got the money.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'd buy it for 100 grand. You got 180 in your mutual fund.

[Dave Ramsey]

How big is the property?

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's about 55 acres. I mean, if the value is right, I don't think it's a problem. But pay cash for it or don't do it. If you can't pay cash for it, don't do it. And never do a land contract. You'll get screwed over six ways from Sunday on that. Ooh, I could do a whole segment on land contracts. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here and I got a big announcement. I'm coming to a city near you live on the Money and relationships tour with Dr. John DeLoney. This is the most interactive event we've ever done. You get to decide what we talk about. You do not want to miss this. We'll be coming to Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City in April and May of 2025. Get your tickets and more [e-mail] tour. For those of you on YouTube and on podcasts, this will be our last segment for the day. You can pick up the other segment that we're going to do on the Ramsey Network app and you can join it for free. Just go to Ramsey Solutions or go to download the network app on Apple or Google Play or whatever and you can join it free and you listen to all the whole show or you can listen to the last segment. Whatever you want to do. It's all there for free. From the Ramsey Network app, you can also enter questions. This question comes from the Ramsey Network app. To ask a question without Ever having to call in, you can click the link in the show notes or download the app for free. Once you're in the app, you can navigate to the Ramsey show, click Ask a question and submit your question for the show.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, the question is from Brianna. Sundays, I was one month from my lease being up and I had to leave early due to a domestic violence incident. I notified the property management company and sent them the email with proof of the protection order. But just the other day I went to check my credit and they put a $4,000 debt into collections. I'm appealing it, but if that doesn't work, should I just pay it?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, what, what happened to you is wrong and horrible, but it does not release you from a lease. A protection order does not get you out of a lease.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're. You're appealing to their mercy at that point?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, if they want to let you out. If you were working, if you were one of my tenants, I would let you out. But you're, you can't just send them the email and go, I'm out. It's not a get out of jail free card. No pun intended. So you know you are liable for that. Last month, I don't know how it got to $4,000 for one month. You had one month left on the lease and now they're going to $4,000. I'm not sure what flip were you renting, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or they added a bunch of fees or something.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Or maybe the bozo stayed behind, torch the place. I don't know. I don't know what happened here. But you are still liable even though you had a protection order, even though you sent an email. That does not. This is not a one way thing where you just go, oh, I'm out. No, you're not out. Unless they choose to let you out and they didn't respond, you don't have a response from them. Or at least you didn't mention it. If you do, saying, we're going to let you go. If you've got that response, then you owe zero because they said we're going to let you go so that you're free. But I don't think you got that. I think you just sent this to them and you thought that got you out. That's the way this is worded anyway, and it does not get you out. I'm not an attorney, but it doesn't get you out. So you know what I would do? I don't know if you need to appeal it, I would just call the property management Company.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'd go in person.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If you're in the. If you're in the town, go over there and try to meet with a senior person and see if you can negotiate. You. You're going to have to pay some money because, you know, you just kind of walk. You were in a horrible situation. You needed to leave. I'm not telling you you did something wrong, but the assumption that you made that it got you out of the lease was incorrect.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so you're going to owe some money. Now you got to go figure out what. And what you can settle it for. If it's a $4,000 of legitimate charges or a bunch of them that are just beefed up or whatever, you might settle it for that equal to that one month's rent and. But you're going to end up paying something. I think. I don't think the judge is going to go, oh, well, you had a protection order. You don't have to honor your contract. It's like saying, I got a protection order, so I have to pay my car payment. No, that's not how it works. So sorry. You know, you're going to end up paying something, Brianna, and the sooner you can get to somebody and get a settlement negotiation begun, you're better off to do it in person, and you're better off to do it with the actual people, not the stupid lawyers. But if you can get that pulled off, that's going to be your best route, because you're not going to get out of Dodge on this without paying something. Joe's in Chesapeake, Virginia. Hi, Joe. How are you? Hey, Dave.

[Justin]

How's it going?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Justin]

So, beginning of this year, we decided. My wife and I decided to take our debt seriously, and now we have paid off $30,000 in student loans and credit card debt.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Good for you.

[Justin]

Mostly from my. My job. And I've been fixing and flipping lawnmowers, trucks, equipment, tractors, all kinds of stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How much money you made doing that?

[Justin]

Honestly? Normally about four to five thousand dollars a month.

[William]

Wow.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Good for you.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're good at this, sir.

[Justin]

Yeah, I've been working, working hard. I'm. I'm a Caterpillar mechanic. That's my career. So I just kind of, you know, buy it by what I can and fix it up.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, you know how to turn. You know, you know how to turn a wrench? Good for you, man.

[Justin]

Yes, sir. Yeah, My question is I'm. I'm at the point where I need to start my. My emergency Fund, three to six month emergency fund.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Good.

[Justin]

And I've been looking at the High Yield Savings Account and I see that the rate of return is. The one I found that I applied for was 5.31%. My mortgage, I only owe 119 on its house that we built ourselves. And the interest rate on that is 4.3%. So my question is, why should I not just put all of my income into the High Yield Savings Account as long as the rate of return is greater than the interest owed and because.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If you make 1% on $100,000, it's $1,000. You don't have a thousand dollar problem. You have $119,000 problem. The secret to paying off your mortgage is not making 1% spread on a High Yield Savings account. The secret to paying off your mortgage is do what you did with the 30,000 and pay off your mortgage.

[Jordan]

Okay?

[Dr. John Deloney]

The actual math, the actual math of what you're, of this theory that you're running won't buy you a biscuit.

[Justin]

Okay?

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's what I'm saying. So you're making more money on tractors than you'll make on this in a week.

[Justin]

Uh huh.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You follow me?

[Justin]

Yes, sir.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If you got 100,000 at 5% and 100,000 at 4%, the spread is 1%. 1% of $100,000 is $1,000 per year. You make that in a week flipping tractors. So it's not, it's not, it's not enough to screw with. It's. So just pay off your mortgage, get your emergency fund done, and then go ahead and go through the baby steps, 4, 5 and 6. And you'll be in great shape, man. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I like to take that thousand bucks and divide it monthly and $83, that's your sleep tax. And you'll more than make that back.

[Dr. John Deloney]

$83 a month to sleep deeper than.

[Dave Ramsey]

You'Ve ever slept in your life because nobody can take your house.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, yeah. Just, just pay it off as fast as you can. Just nail it. Hammer. Do it, do it, do it, do it. Don't mess around with it. Don't play games. Good for you. Good question. All right. Sam's in Syracuse. Hi, Sam. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm good, Dave.

[Justin]

How are you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Justin]

Hey, so I kind of, I feel like it's a dumb question, but you're.

[Dr. John Deloney]

In the right place.

[Dave Ramsey]

I have been a couple of dumb guys. We got you.

[Justin]

Hey, so I've been with my girlfriend now for almost a little over a year. I accumulated a large solid debt before I got with her while I was in the military. And I want to move forward with our relationship. We've. We've discussed it for the last, you know, two months or so. I have the money set aside for the ring.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How much?

[Justin]

I. About 3500 bucks.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How much in debt do you have?

[Justin]

I would say it's roughly around 50,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And what's it on?

[Justin]

It's. It's a few things. So one of them is a credit card, which is 25. One is from a repo from a previous relationship.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What do you make a year?

[Justin]

I'm actually, I make about 65 a year.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I would say I pulled about you 24,226. 26. Okay. I almost like I've done this before. Okay. And you're saying, you're saying you want to wait to get out of debt to get married?

[Justin]

I. And that's the thing is like, I, you know, I've heard a few different answers to that question.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Unless they're this answer, they're wrong. The correct answer is get married.

[Justin]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If you're pledged to get out of debt and she's pledged to get out of debt with you and you're aligned and in agreement on your money, get married.

[Justin]

That's one of the big reasons why I fell in love with her is, you know, I. I was very open.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Don't tell her I think I've got 50,000. Tell her I have $49,462 in debt and it's exactly this. And this is exactly what I'm going to do to get out. Because I'm the kind of man you want to marry, because I'm getting this done. I'm a go getter. That's who you need to be. Don't give. I think I make. I think I'm in debt. Get it exact and kill it. This is the Ramsey show. Hey, you're still here. What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey network app, right? All you gotta do to finish the episode is search Ramsey network in the app store, Google play store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right. For free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. All right, I'm getting out of here.

[Justin]

Enjoy.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We'll see you on the app.