Be Prepared: Math Doesn’t Care About Your Life Situations

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "Be Prepared: Math Doesn’t Care About Your Life Situations"

Release Date: January 13, 2025

Introduction In the episode titled "Be Prepared: Math Doesn’t Care About Your Life Situations," The Ramsey Show delves deep into the intersection of personal turmoil and financial stability. Hosted by Jade Warshaw alongside Dr. John Deloney, the episode emphasizes the importance of objective financial planning regardless of life's unpredictable challenges. The hosts engage with callers facing significant financial distress, offering practical advice grounded in Dave Ramsey’s financial principles.

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1. Navigating Financial Ruin Post-Divorce

Caller: Nicholas from Boston, Massachusetts (00:57)

Nicholas shares his tumultuous experience following a divorce in 2020, which severely impacted both his emotional and financial well-being. As a small business owner in the HVAC installation sector, Nicholas witnessed his business thrive until personal issues, including his wife’s affair and ensuing divorce, drained his finances.

• Key Points:

  • Business Decline: Post-2021, Nicholas's business slowed due to economic factors and personal hardships.
  • Financial Drain: During the divorce, Nicholas’s wife drained the joint accounts, leading to substantial tax liabilities amounting to over six figures.
  • Debt Burden: He is now grappling with mortgage payments that barely cover living costs and accumulating credit card debt.

• Notable Quote:

  • "Math doesn't care about your situation." (Dr. John Deloney, 23:14) – Emphasizing the necessity to focus on financial facts rather than emotional circumstances.

• Advice Given:

  • Move Forward: Nicholas is encouraged to stop dwelling on past mistakes and take ownership of his financial situation.
  • Debt Snowball Method: Dr. John suggests using the debt snowball approach to tackle personal debts first, followed by business-related obligations.

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2. Coping with Medical Emergencies and Rising Debt

Caller: Roger from Kansas City, Missouri (12:13)

Roger discusses the financial strain caused by his son's severe asthma condition, which resulted in a three-week ICU stay. Although medical bills were covered by insurance, the family accumulated $11,000 in credit card debt due to lost income and increased living expenses during this period. Additionally, Roger has recently taken out $30,000 in student loans to pursue a career in cyber security.

• Key Points:

  • Medical Crisis: The son's hospitalization led to dependency on credit cards for essential expenses.
  • Student Loans: The recent $30,000 investment in education aims to boost future income but adds to current financial stress.
  • Income Constraints: Roger’s current income from business fluctuates, making debt repayment challenging.

• Notable Quote:

  • "Math doesn't care about your situation, man." (Dr. John Deloney, 23:14) – Reinforcing the importance of addressing financial realities irrespective of personal crises.

• Advice Given:

  • Increase Income & Decrease Expenses: Focus on strategies to boost income while tightening the budget to manage and eliminate debt.
  • Prioritize Debt Repayment: Address high-interest debts first and consider additional income streams to expedite repayment.

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3. Emotional Guilt in Family Financial Obligations

Caller: Brad from West Palm Beach, Florida (32:50)

Brad expresses feelings of guilt associated with moving his family closer to his aging parents in Florida. Despite the emotional burden, Brad and his wife have relocated to better support their parents, affecting their financial and emotional stability.

• Key Points:

  • Geographical Relocation: Moving to support independent yet aging parents creates emotional and logistical challenges.
  • Balancing Family and Finances: Struggles with guilt over prioritizing financial stability over familial obligations.
  • Personal Growth: Encouragement to set boundaries and make deliberate financial choices that benefit the household’s long-term well-being.

• Notable Quote:

  • "Math doesn't care." (Dr. John Deloney, 23:14) – Highlighting the need to base financial decisions on objective data rather than emotional ties.

• Advice Given:

  • Set Boundaries: Establish clear financial and emotional boundaries to prevent familial obligations from undermining financial goals.
  • Long-Term Planning: Focus on creating a sustainable financial plan that accommodates family needs without sacrificing personal financial health.

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4. Managing Funeral Expenses Amidst Financial Strain

Caller: Janie from Dallas, Texas (42:30)

Janie grapples with the expectation to contribute financially to her late in-law’s funeral expenses, totaling approximately $24,000. Despite having sufficient funds, Janie feels pressured and conflicted about meeting these familial financial demands.

• Key Points:

  • Financial Expectation: Pressure from spouse and in-laws to contribute a significant amount towards funeral costs.
  • Emotional Conflict: Janie feels torn between her financial capacity and emotional reluctance to shoulder additional debt.
  • Family Dynamics: Navigating marital expectations and familial pressures during a time of grief.

• Notable Quote:

  • "Feelings are cool. That doesn't make them true." (Dr. John Deloney, 43:12) – Emphasizing the distinction between emotions and financial realities.

• Advice Given:

  • Communicate Openly: Engage in constructive dialogue with spouse to establish financial boundaries and mutual understanding.
  • Financial Reality Check: Recognize and accept the current financial situation, prioritizing essential obligations over emotional pressures.

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5. Overcoming Financial Resentment and Debt

Caller: Hannah from Nebraska (63:59)

Hannah, a stay-at-home mother with significant consumer debt and a substantial HELOC, shares her struggle with feelings of resentment due to financial burdens. Her husband’s role as a high school teacher with limited income exacerbates their financial strain, making it difficult to manage expenses and accumulate savings.

• Key Points:

  • Debt Load: $45,000 in consumer debt and $80,000 on a HELOC create overwhelming financial pressure.
  • Income Constraints: Husband’s teaching salary, supplemented by a low-income summer job, is insufficient to cover debts and living expenses.
  • Emotional Toll: Resentment and emotional strain affect familial relationships and personal well-being.

• Notable Quote:

  • "Math doesn't care about your situation." (Dr. John Deloney, 23:14) – Reinforcing the importance of addressing financial truths over emotional grievances.

• Advice Given:

  • Adopt the Seven Baby Steps: Following Dave Ramsey’s structured approach to financial freedom, starting with saving emergency funds and eliminating debt.
  • Budgeting and Goal Setting: Implementing a disciplined budgeting system to track and manage expenses effectively.
  • Open Communication: Foster transparent communication with spouse to collaborate on financial strategies and alleviate resentment.

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6. Coping with Sudden Loss and Financial Insecurity

Caller: Deborah from Phoenix, Arizona (74:26)

Deborah shares the devastating loss of her husband, Chad, a pastor, who left her without substantial financial resources apart from a minimal life insurance policy. With debts looming and concerns about retirement, Deborah feels overwhelmed by her financial insecurity during her grieving process.

• Key Points:

  • Unexpected Loss: Chad’s sudden passing due to cancer has left Deborah without adequate financial support.
  • Limited Savings: Only $8,000 in life insurance covers funeral costs, leaving no substantial retirement savings.
  • Self-Employment Challenges: As a self-employed realtor, Deborah faces the dual burden of managing her business and personal finances amidst grief.

• Notable Quote:

  • "Math doesn't care." (Dr. John Deloney, 23:14) – Stressing the necessity to confront financial realities despite emotional turmoil.

• Advice Given:

  • Strengthen Emergency Funds: Prioritize building and maintaining an emergency fund to cushion against unforeseen expenses.
  • Retirement Planning: Encourage consistent contributions to retirement accounts to secure long-term financial stability.
  • Emotional Support and Practical Steps: Seek emotional support while taking practical steps to manage finances, such as budgeting and debt repayment strategies.

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Key Insights and Conclusions

• Objective Financial Planning: Throughout the episode, the hosts assert that financial decisions must be based on objective data and mathematical realities, irrespective of emotional circumstances or personal hardships.

• Debt Management Strategies: Emphasis on the debt snowball method and disciplined budgeting as foundational steps toward achieving financial freedom.

• Balancing Emotions and Finances: While acknowledging the emotional toll of financial struggles, the hosts advocate for practical strategies to mitigate debt and enhance financial health.

• Long-Term Financial Security: Encouraging listeners to focus on building emergency funds, reducing debt, and planning for retirement to ensure long-term financial stability.

• Personal Responsibility: Highlighting the importance of taking ownership of one’s financial situation, making informed decisions, and avoiding the pitfalls of relying on credit or emotional spending.

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Notable Quotes:

1. "Math doesn't care about your situation." – Dr. John Deloney (23:14)
2. "Feelings are cool. That doesn't make them true." – Dr. John Deloney (43:12)
3. "Budgeting is the foundation of everything we teach." – Jade Warshaw (66:02)

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Conclusion

In "Be Prepared: Math Doesn’t Care About Your Life Situations," The Ramsey Show reinforces the critical need for disciplined financial planning, especially during personal crises. By engaging with callers facing diverse financial challenges, Jade Warshaw and Dr. John Deloney provide actionable advice rooted in Dave Ramsey’s proven principles. The episode serves as a compelling reminder that while life’s unpredictable events can disrupt financial stability, a steadfast commitment to objective financial strategies can pave the way to recovery and prosperity.

Transcript

[Jade Warshaw]

Hey, guys, if you're ready to get ahead with money and start building wealth this year, don't miss our free Take Control of youf Money live stream. It's on January 23rd, and you could win $4,000 just for signing up. You got nothing to lose. Go sign up right [e-mail] livestream from the Ramsey Network. It's the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, my good buddy, Dr. John Deloney.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What up?

[Jade Warshaw]

We're taking your calls all hour long. Your life, your money, your relationships, your career, all of it. We'll talk about it. The call is a free call. 888-255-2225 is what gets you on. Remember, this is a live show and we want to hear from you. All right, John, let's go straight to the phone lines. We got Nicholas. Boston, Massachusetts. What's going on, Nick?

[Nicholas]

How are you doing?

[Jade Warshaw]

Good. How can we help?

[Caller 1]

So, yeah, I just wanted to, you know, first, I appreciate you guys, you know, putting me on, but I wanted to just kind of, you know, put my situation out there in 2020. I'm a small business owner in 2020. We had a great year. I'm a we are offense installation company now. We were doing really, really great around the time 2020 into 2021. At that time, my wife had an affair. I was working pro 60 hours a week just because I had to keep up with the demand for the business at the time. After that, you know, that hit me mentally and going into a divorce process, it killed me financially and I've just not been able to recover. It's just been a tough few years. The business since that, it was kind of like almost like a peak in 2020 into 2021 with the work. The business slowed down after. I don't know if it's partially due to the economy or just my state in general of, you know, pushing forward, lack of funds for the business and so on. But just been a struggle since. Since that time, so.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Man, sorry, brother.

[Caller 1]

No, it's all right. And, you know, with, you know, Pre divorce around 2020, I had six figures in the bank. I only had my mortgage, which is 1400, which in Massachusetts is. You can't even rent for 1400. Is this nothing for the more the mortgage is nothing. At the time it was 1250. But during the divorce I had a refina, so it went up to almost 1500. But I mean, I just. All my money got drained. She spent $72,000 in 2020, the year of the Divorce. She just kind of drained the accounts and left me with that. And then the tax liability I got into, I'm in huge tax Troubles. I owe six figures to the. To the government and then 30, you know, 30,000 to the state and I'm just kind of. I'm just kind of lost.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, let me. You and me and Jade could talk for a long, long time. And Jade's can walk you through the numbers part because there's a. There's a mathematical path out of this.

[Caller 1]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But in the, in the first two minutes we've talked, you've mentioned 20, 20. I've lost count.

[Caller 1]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And what that tells me is you're living in the past.

[Caller 1]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you've got one, if not both feet still in 20. 20, 2021, even 2022. And some of that's hurt. Some of that is you probably got a lot of esteem.

[Caller 1]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Out of making that kind of money and having that kind of false security in a bank account that you somehow that, that translated into what you were worth.

[Caller 1]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Not just financially, but. But emotionally, spiritually, relationally.

[Caller 1]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And it's 2025.

[Caller 1]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so you won't get one step of healing, moving forward until you decide to not mention your ex wife again. She's gone, man.

[Caller 1]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Until you stop blaming her for your current tax liabilities. Until you say, okay, here's. I'm gonna stand up in 2025. I'm clearly good at what I do. I've been successful in the past, I will be successful again in the future. And I've got a mess I gotta clean up.

[Caller 1]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You get what I'm saying?

[Caller 1]

No, definitely, definitely. And. And there's a whole nother part of this which is like I trying to push through. I got two young children, you know, five and six years old, and I'm with them 60% of time paying, you know, paying the, you know, 400 a week in support is. It's just kind of. It is what it is. I don't have an issue with the support or nothing like that. It's just I'm, you know, I feel like I'm pushing myself further into that because I'm trying to give them everything they need. So my credit, my personal credit cards, along with the business, I mean, things, everything's just, you know.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hold on. You're not trying to give them everything they need. You're trying to give them everything so that you don't feel so bad.

[Caller 2]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Because what they really want is their old Man.

[Caller 1]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And going out this weekend in Boston and throwing snow at each other and digging a hole and playing in the mud cost $0. And they'll tell that story at your funeral.

[Caller 1]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So again, don't blame them for your debt problems. Yeah, it sucks. It is what it is. You got taken to the cleaners in court. He did. And now it's 2025.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So my question to you is like direct, and this is just me just talking to a man that I love. Okay. Is 2025 going to be the year that you say enough? I'm going to look in the mirror and I'm going to take ownership of the stuff and get it knocked out?

[Caller 1]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Is it, Is this the year? Because if not, then we can take another call.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Cuz can I ask a, a, a fair question? I think is fair. Did you get taken to the cleaners or was it just divided? 50. 50. And he just got.

[Caller 1]

No, no, no. I, I got destroyed.

[Jade Warshaw]

How?

[Caller 1]

I got.

[Jade Warshaw]

Why?

[Caller 1]

Yeah, how?

[Jade Warshaw]

And why?

[Caller 1]

Just my, my, my lawyer, the representation, during, during it, there was just a lot of things that just did not go my way and I was in, not in a mental state. So at some point after them just coming at me and coming at me with demands and demands, I just wanted it done with. So I said, all right, that's it, you know, I agree on this and let's move forward.

[Jade Warshaw]

So, so tell me, tell me. I'm going to be honest with you, flat out. I think this is, this call is more about what's happening inside of you than what's happening with your money. Just from the way you sound, you sound like you are just a chicken with its head cut off. And like John said, we can talk for a long time if you want to give me some real numbers and, and we can walk through this financially. Tell me now, tell me now what you're earning and is it from your business or did you get a new job?

[Caller 1]

No, I still, I'm still running. Still running the business.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller 1]

Do you want to hear my personals or do you want to.

[Jade Warshaw]

I just want to know your. I just want to know your payment. Like, what do you pay yourself every month? What do you bring home every month?

[Caller 1]

Yeah, so I mean, I mean weekly, my, my weekly check is like 12, 1200 a week, so.

[Jade Warshaw]

And that's like clockwork.

[Caller 1]

Yep, yep. But, but then you gotta, you know, right now is our slow season, so there's gonna be a couple weeks where I'm not paid, taking a check, and then you have a subtracting, you know, 387. And support.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, I just want money. If you. I want to know what does Nick bring home? Does he bring home 4800amonth, is that right?

[Caller 1]

Yeah, yeah. 1198 a week. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, and then tell me your total debt.

[Caller 1]

Personal or with the business included?

[Jade Warshaw]

It's all the same. But tell me personal first, just for the purposes of this call.

[Caller 1]

Yep. So I got the. I got the vehicle, the vehicle, the home, and, you know, about 8,000 in credit card debt.

[Caller 2]

So.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so credit cards are 8,000. How much on the car?

[Caller 1]

20,000 owed.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And the house?

[Caller 1]

200. 200,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you said, you told me you're paying $1500 a month now, is that right?

[Caller 1]

Yeah, it's a little. It's a little under that. It's like 1400 and change.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, fine. So the car. What's the car worth? It's 20,000 is what's it worth.

[Caller 1]

It's worth. Yeah. Last time I checked, it was worth 14.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Now with your line of work, is it, I do more, I can do more work and make more money. Is it just as simple as that? What's stopping you from doing more?

[Caller 1]

Yeah, so. Well, this. We. The work's always been there. I never paid for advertising with the work. We've always been very busy. Last year was very slow. I put 14,000 over the year into a marketing agency and just. It was a well known.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, here's the thing. Let me. Let me give you the quick equation. The way that you get out of debt quickly is you increase your income and decrease your expenses. That is the simple solution to getting more money to throw it at your debt. And that's all it is. Listen, you've got two debts. You owe 28,000. I know that you lost a lot of money in this process, but the truth is, right now your debt isn't all that scary. If you called in here telling me you had 500,000 and maybe with the business, is it. It is that much. But let's focus on that quote, personal debt first. Use the debt snowball and pay it off. And then you can call in again and let's talk about this business. And if it's worth keeping, this is the Ramsey Show.

[Nicholas]

Hey, y'all, it's Rachel Cruz. Just about everything costs more these days, and unfortunately, healthcare is no exception. So if you're looking at your healthcare options during open enrollment and finding that your costs are increasing while your number of choices are decreasing, be sure to check out Christian healthcare ministries CHM is not health insurance. It's a biblically based health cost sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families just like yours cover nearly $10 billion in health care costs. With no networks and the freedom to choose your health care provider, CHM is an affordable option that aligns with your values and makes it possible for your family to save on health care. Plus, you can join at any time, including open enrollment. You guys. CHM has been helping Ramsey fans for 15 years, and they're the only health cost sharing provider endorsed by Ramsey. So you can trust CHM to take care of you like we would. Programs start as low as $98 a month, so find out more and join [e-mail] budget. That's chministries.org budget.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're listening to the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Dr. John DeLoney sits beside me today. Hey, if you're ready to get your finances in order once and for all in 2025, I've got just the thing for you. Hey, we're doing this free live stream. It's January 23rd. It's Take Control of your money. So if you're a person who's been living paycheck to paycheck, if you're a person who's constantly overdrawn, if you're a person who feels like they just can't seem to get ahead no matter what, right? Two steps forward, one step backwards. This is for you. It's going to be myself and Dave Ramsey. We're going to take the stage. I'm going to show you how to stop living paycheck to paycheck. I'm going to show you how to make your budget in real time, right? So you have more breathing room so you can pay off debt fast. And finally really just get ahead with your money, that's what all of us want, right? Later on in the evening, Rachel Cruz and George Camel are also going to join us. We're going to do a Q A. This is about everything, not just your budget. We'll answer questions about real estate. We'll answer questions about investing. This is your time. Okay? If you ever had questions, if you were ever trying to wonder how to get unstuck, this is for you. Okay? So not only that, but we're also giving away money because nothing helps more than just have a little extra cash in your pocket. So when you sign up, you're going to be entered to win one of our cash giveaways. And we're going to be giving away $4,000 to five different people. I don't know about you, John, but $4,000, that's, that's a little bag.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'll take it.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'll take it too. So if you want to get involved, sign up for the free live stream. You can do that by going to Ramsey Solutions.com live stream. You can click the link in the description. If you're listening on podcast or YouTube, I want to see you there. I don't want to hear any more excuses. You need to be on this live stream.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And few things in the world do I love more than taking Dave Ramsey's money. Yeah, like, man, if I can get 4,000 bucks, come on now, I'm gonna get 4,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. If nothing else, just sign up for that. Okay, I'll see you there. Yeah, get that money. I'll see you there. Remember, at 7:00pm Central Time, so do the math and you figure out the time zones. All right. Rogers in Kansas City, Missouri. What's up?

[Caller 2]

Roger, hey, can you hear me?

[Jade Warshaw]

I can. What's up?

[Caller 2]

Thank you for taking my call. I just. So last year our son had some really bad asthma and then he did. He underwent a procedure that end him in the ICU for three weeks. He was in the ventilator and he was, he wasn't breathing on his own. Yeah, he was heavily medicated.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How's he doing now?

[Caller 2]

And he's doing a lot better now, thank God.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He's awesome.

[Caller 2]

He's a lot, a lot better. Yeah. And during that three weeks, almost a month, you know, I wasn't, we, I wasn't working and we had some credit cards, so we kind of just started putting everything on those credit cards and kind of accumulated quite a bit of debt because of, of that situation that we had going on. How much we did, it's about like 11, 000. Plus some student loans that I recently got because I recently back went back to school.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, how much was the student loans and how much was the medical debt?

[Caller 2]

The medical, the medical debt was actually covered by insurance.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I was going to say there's no way you got up for 12 grand for a month in ICU.

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean, were you on the hook for the, the deductible?

[Caller 2]

No, I think his insurance actually covered everything.

[Jade Warshaw]

Everything.

[Caller 2]

The personal, like our, our, like, like our bills and like our food. We had other, two other daughters that we, we, we didn't see for those three weeks.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so the debt you racked up was just. We've got a son in the hospital. We need childcare we need food, we need somebody help clean it. Like that kind of stuff. It wasn't the actual medical bills.

[Caller 2]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so you said about 11K?

[Caller 2]

Yeah, about 11, $12,000. And, and I just, I just can't seem to get out of it. Like it just keeps seeing that just minimum payments and minimum payments. I'm just trying to see what we can do to make sure that gets out the way or we just get it out the way quicker.

[Jade Warshaw]

Can, Can I ask a question? And I'm, I'm just, I'm not trying to take you to task. I'm just trying to understand. Did you say it was three weeks in the hospital?

[Caller 2]

Yes. And he was, he was asleep.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. That he was asleep. Got you. And 11, 000 in just meals and child care.

[Caller 2]

Well, credit card debt. Like. Yeah, like bills and stuff like that. We still had to cover our bills so we just ended up just putting it on credit cards.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so. Okay, got it. And is that what you would typically spend in a, in a month? 3,000, 11,000? Or how far off your normal budget is that?

[Caller 2]

It's. It's a little extra because it was already. There was already some balance on those cards.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller 2]

Kind of just did it over the edge, you know.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got it. And you said there's some student loans too. How much is that?

[Caller 2]

Those are new. Those are like, I'd say like 30. Okay, 30,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you're continuing to take those out or have you said no more?

[Caller 2]

Not. Well, it's. It was on everything already. It was like a course. It was already paid for. So I don't, I don't owe anything above that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so we've got the. So 41,000 in debt. And can you tell me a little bit more about you guys income?

[Caller 2]

Yeah, I'm the. I'm the only one that works. My wife stays at home with the kids. I bring in about like 57. That's what I brought in last year.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, can you tell me what that sounds like every month? Like what's your paycheck? Every single month or total? Every month?

[Caller 2]

About like 4,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Okay, so what sounds like here is you guys had a crisis, you had something really scary happen, and it's. I don't know, John. I, I want to say it's kind of normal that sometimes we go into that mode where it's like whatever you have, it's almost like you have bigger fish to fry. So you're not thinking about every time you swipe the card. Right. You're just trying to Be there. Who cares? Yeah. Order the food. Who cares? You know, get the, get the sitter. Right. And so it sounds like you went overboard a little bit, but I have a. I have. I'm thinking that most of that debt was already there based on what you were saying the money was for. And then you turn around and you did 30, 000 in student loans. So did the 30, 000 in student loans. How does that ROI for you? What did it do for you? Because you said you took a course.

[Caller 2]

Yeah, it's, it's, that's, that's recent. It's just, it's just on. It's on us now. It's just, it was. I've only been in school for like four months.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right, right, right. But I'm saying recently, I'm saying, is that to get you. What was the purpose of that? Is it to get your income up? Tell me more about where that's going to lead you to.

[Caller 2]

Oh, yeah, it was to get a course to start working, and it's for IP cyber security career.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, and when do you start that?

[Caller 2]

Hopefully that'll in April.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, and what will you be making when you get to that?

[Caller 2]

They said anywhere between like 60 to like 80. Starting nice. And then it just goes up.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hold on. Do you have an actual job or is that what the, the whoever you bought this $30,000 course for, by the way, which you probably could have taken for 850 bucks at a local community college? Are they the ones telling you that starting salary start at 65 to 80 grand, or do you have a job in hand?

[Caller 2]

That's kind of what they're.

[Dr. John Deloney]

They're, they're guessing bro town. Like, dude, you can't listen to what they're saying, man. They're, they're. I mean, they're just selling you a marketing message. You got to get on the horn and try to get jobs.

[Caller 2]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What they're doing is taking an aggregate of potential, those who did get a job, which doesn't count. Any of the people who didn't get jobs with the certificate. This is an approximate of what some of those people have made. That's not what your salary.

[Caller 2]

That's kind of what the job, the jobs, the job listings. That's what they're saying.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Caller 2]

For the field, for the IT field.

[Jade Warshaw]

Can I run it back a little bit more? Because we don't have a whole lot of time on this court, on this call, and I want to give you something to think about when you leave here. Do you want to know What I, I'm just, this is one woman's opinion. I think that the, the deal happened with your son and it scared you. But I don't think that's to what's responsible for this financial situation. I think most of what was on your credit cards was there already. And yeah, you may have added a little bit to it, but I think that that was mostly there. I also think that these student loans are what's really eating your lunch right now. And so coming off of one crisis with your son and then feeling the crisis of this financial situation, I think is what's got you in a tizzy. But truly, I don't think one has too much to do with the other. The key Here is the $4,000. You mentioned your wife's home at the home with the kids. Is there any way that she can pick up some part time work as well? Because I think that you've got to get a second job because of this course. Like if you got this course now, it's like, okay, I have to make this thing worth it and I have to figure out when did I, when do I say that it's going to roi and when do I say it's going to pay itself off, right? And you can't be waiting around for, you know, two, three years to pay this thing back. You've got to get on like John said, get on the horn now and get this thing paid off and truly cut up the credit cards. So before you get off the line, Christian's gonna pick up over there and we're gonna get you every dollar. We're gonna let you try out the premium version for a while because in order to do this, you're gonna have to know where every single dollar is going. Now is not the time to be playing, you know, pity, pity, Patty and Patty cake with your, your dollars. You got to know where everything's going because on a $4,000 monthly income, you're going to have to be very intentional to get this paid off quickly. But we're going to help you do it. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Rachel Cruz]

You know, every year I hear the same excuses for why people don't get the life insurance they need to protect their families. So this year, let's clear the air and look at the facts. Most people are concerned about price, but term life rates have never been lower. Having 10 to 12 times your income on a 15 or 20 year plan is in many cases just plain cheap. Second, life insurance through your work is not enough. Especially since these plans go away. If you change jobs. You need to have your own policy so you're not without protection when your family really needs it. Third, stay at home. Parents need life insurance, especially those with young kids. People don't realize how quickly the costs add up without someone at home taking care of things. So no more excuses, folks. Get the protection your family needs. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. They've been my choice for all my insurance for over 25 years and are the only people I trust.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're listening to the Ramsey Show. It's me, Jade Warshaw, next to my good buddy Dr. John DeLoney, host of the Dr. John DeLoney show, taking your calls all hour long. Remember, it's a live show, so if you want to get on, the number is 888-825-5225. We'll get you on. We'll talk about your life, your money. Listen, we can talk about anything you want to talk about as long as it relates.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I got opinion on lots of stuff.

[Jade Warshaw]

Tell me one. Give me a hot take right on the spot. Come on, John, you can the hottest.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Take of 2025 thus far. I got two of them, one with that last call and we can get into that if you want to.

[Jade Warshaw]

Let's get it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm gonna get myself canceled. But the, the second hot take of 2025. I love bearded James Child.

[Jade Warshaw]

I was gonna say a James Child's hot take. I was gonna say give me a James Childs without a hat. Come on. It's like a new. It's a different man.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He has been a hat wearer and like super every day he shaves and now he's like his band coat of glow is crushing. And he's just like, I'm gonna own.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The rugged, like he stepped out from.

[Jade Warshaw]

Behind, you know, he's like the guy that sits in the back. He stepped out and said, here I am.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. How do you like this world?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. So that's hot take. That's hot take number two. Hot take number one is.

[Jade Warshaw]

My guy Nicholas.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. The last caller. So this is an unpopular thought. That particular guy, his kid had an asthma attack.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Really got super scary.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Very, very scary situation. He's the only breadwinner. His wife stays at home with kids. Kid goes to ICU for three weeks.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He doesn't go back to work. He stays in the hospital for three weeks with his wife. And they've got two little kids and they racked up a jillion dollars in Credit card debt. Theoretically.

[Jade Warshaw]

Theoretically.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And then while he was there, it sounded like he decided to sign up for a thirty thousand dollar cyber security course. Right. My hot take is being able to knock off three weeks of work with no income.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No way to pay your bills. And in many ways it's two different choices. One, I'm always going to be with my kid no matter what. End of story, end of time. I get that. And my two kids are my entire world. I get it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And also you are making a choice to set your house up for the next however many years with this, with electricity and angst and misery because you just start swiping that credit card on everything and then you decide, well, I'm just going to get another job. So I'm going to trust some the back of a brochure for some for profit certificate program that I found online that's got. Right, yeah. Fly by night nonsense. So my hot take is you. Math doesn't care about your situation, man.

[Jade Warshaw]

What?

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so this is one of those reasons why we preach so much. Don't owe anybody anymore money, drive a crappy Corolla, work two jobs to get out of debt. Not if, but when one of your kids gets sick, one of your relatives passes away. I, I, I, I, I wrote about the book like the greatest blessing following the Ramsey plan has been for me and my wife, besides just the peace in our house was two years ago when one of my favorite people on the planet, one of my cousins, just suddenly died. I didn't have to look, we, I booked a hotel. I didn't have to sleep under an aunt's kitchen table. Right. On a pallet of some sort. And we got plane tickets and we went down and we got the privilege of just being sad. Math doesn't care. And so if you are the main breadwinner, somebody's got to keep working. Right. And that's one of those awful like Sophie's Choice kind of responsibilities, I think especially falls on dads. When you're the breadwinner. It comes those moments when, okay, mom's gonna sit in the hospital and right when work's over, you're coming there, you're gonna spend the night there, you're gonna sleep there, you're gonna get up at 5:30 in the morning, you're gonna get up and you're gonna go back to work because somebody's got to keep the lights on at the house for the other kids and for that family. And so I know we live in a world where we are yanked around by how our kids feel and how we feel about our kids. I wanna. I want this kind of special dog. All right, we'll get more dogs. I want to play these sports. We're gonna play those sports. I got on the travel team. We're gonna. We're gonna go over. And I think that letting our kids be the center of our universes. A, our kids can't carry that weight. They can't carry it. And B, our houses are falling apart around that worship of our kids. Somebody's got to keep the lights on.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's a really good point. And it is a hot take. Because the truth is, when somebody starts talking about their kids, somebody in the hospital, it's like, okay, free pass, right? We automatically kind of want to count.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Bills don't count. The world doesn't count.

[Jade Warshaw]

But what I hope is. And Nicholas, if you're still listening, we're not picking on you. What I hope is that you take away from this. This is. This is what we would call around here and I've had it moment. Yes, it should be. And it's what I'd call an I've had it moment. Because the truth is. And I'll try to talk about it from a personal point of view so it doesn't sound like we're harping on you, because we're not. We're not trying to paint you into a bad guy, but we want this to be a moment where you pivot and change. If you say the problem was, my kid got sick and went to the hospital. If we say the problem was, let's take it down on a lower level. The problem was I lost my job. And now here we are. The problem was my husband overdrew the checking account, and now here we are. That those are just symptoms. Those are not the real problem there. And. And this is why we teach what we teach. The real problem is the wind blew and I had a house made of straw, that's the real problem, right? And so if we can get above it and go, all right, I don't want to be in this situation ever again. That's when real change can happen. I remember this was years ago. Sam and I were paying off in the midst of paying off our debt. We had 460 to pay off. And I remember we were still trying to figure out budgeting, still trying to figure. And we had no money. And so my sister. My sister ended up having a medical emergency in Orlando. Orlando's like two and a half hours from where I lived. She was in the hospital. And I'm thinking, all right, I'm gonna go see her. I had no money, no extra gas money. Because when your budget is, like, tight to the wire, no extra gas money, nothing. And I remember being like, oh, my gosh, I'm gonna have to call my parents and ask them for money because I'm not putting on a credit card. I' doing any of this. And that was such a. Oh, my gosh. A, swallow my pride moment. B, am I going to make the choice that's going to drive us further into debt? And see, also, I never want to be in this situation ever again. So what do I have to fix? I can't blame it on my sister. Be like, man, she was in debt, and it was because that hap. I have to go. What. What part am I playing in this? And yes, sucky stuff happens, and it comes out of the blue, and it's painful. But if I don't look at where I set myself up and what I did, does that make sense?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I remember being a dean of students, and I got real sick. I remember throwing up blood, and I remember I don't even have enough room on a credit card to go to the er And I had to call my buddy Todd and say, I think I got to go to the emergency room. Can I borrow your credit card? And without even blinking, he said, I got you. Do you need me to drive you? I said, give me another hour. And I ended up feeling a little bit better. A little bit better. But in that moment of being real sick, I remember, never again. Well, and here's how I thought about it. I'll never put a friend in that position again. Yeah, that buddy's going to call my taking so little care of my household that this is the situation I'm in because I can't control spending or I want to go out on the weekends, or me and my wife deserve to go out to eat.

[Jade Warshaw]

But if you had said. If you had walked away from that and said, okay, it got. It got taken care of. Somehow it came to. It always comes together.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Or I just showed up at the ER and we'll pay the bills later.

[Deborah]

Right?

[Jade Warshaw]

Right. Which we can. It's so easy for us to do. Well, it worked out, I guess everything's fine. And then you just go back about life as it was. You've got to have the. You've got to use these as the catalysts that they are to really change and dial in. So.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And as we look at our. At the systems that we are all accustomed to. We're starting to see the cracks. They're not always just going to work out.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

They're not always just going to work out. And I'm, I'm convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that these big systemic cracks, it's not just going to work out. It's. It's not going to get fixed at the system level. It's going to get fixed with people in their household say, as for me and my house, no more. I never want to call my mom again and say, can I borrow gas to go see my sister. I never want to call my buddy and say, can I borrow your credit card? I don't even have enough room on, on a bank. Won't even loan me the money to go to the er, much less have it in my checking account. Right. I have to be done with this.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do you want to know what really got me One time? This was long before I worked here. This was during 2008. So it was the Great Recession. Everybody's calling into the show, talking to Dave about, I'm losing my house. Dave is sitting here going, well, I've purchased more real estate than I've ever purchased. And he said, you want to get to the point that when there's a storm, you can fly above it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I remember sitting in my car with my four hundred and something thousand dollars of debt, being so jealous, but also so like, yes, yeah. Yes, Dave, like that. The next time it pours, the next time it rains, the next time the fire comes, my house is going to be prepared. And you want to know when the next time it happened. 2020. And you want to know what? We were ready folk were prepared. And that's what I'm saying, guys, it will storm. It will rain. This is your chance. This is your call. Be prepared.

[Rachel Cruz]

Taking care of your health doesn't have to cost a fortune. That's why field of greens is in my house. Field of greens is made from fruits and veggies selected by doctors to support your heart, liver, kidneys and metabolism. And here's the best part. They're so confident your doctor will notice your improved health, they offer a money back guarantee, no questions asked. Try today and get 15% off at fieldofgreens.com Ramsey promo code Ramsey fieldofgreens.com Ramsey.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Foreign.

[Jade Warshaw]

You'Re listening to the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Dr. John Deloney. Happy to be with you guys. Thanks for hanging out with us. And if you are a listener, just. I always Say this, but keep listening, keep sharing it, keep liking it, keep subscribing. That's super important for us. We're happy that you do that. Also, the Ramsey show annual Listener survey is live. What that means is you finally get to tell us all the things that have been burning inside of you about the show. We want to know your favorite, favorite parts of the show. We want to know what you like, what you don't, what you want to hear more of. But whatever it is, we just want to hear it. So let it rip. As they say, there's two ways to participate. You can text survey to the number 33789, or you can visit ramseysolutions.com survey if you're listening on podcast or YouTube, you can click the link in the description. So, yeah, let us know. I'm curious. Somebody's gonna say something about man, sometimes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

In these surveys, people be drinking the Haterade. But it's all right, listen.

[Jade Warshaw]

They'd be like, never wear those glasses. That wig was weird. All right, sign up today to be entered to win a 500 gift card.

[Dr. John Deloney]

John Deloney, never talk again.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, nobody would say that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I assure you. They've said that. They've. I promise. James reads all of them.

[Jade Warshaw]

He will read them all. I. Luckily for us, like, if there. Unless there's like a trend, like lots of people being like, Dave or John never needs to speak again. So there won't be that many people. There won't be a true.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There'll be a few. All right. I'd say I'm not for everybody. I get that.

[Jade Warshaw]

But I get that, more importantly, what I was saying is if you sign up today, you can be entered to win a 500 gift card, which is snazzy. All right, let's go to Brad. West Palm Beach, Florida. Love it. What's going on, Brad?

[Zach]

Hey, J. Hey, Dr. John. Thank you guys so much for taking my call. And thanks to Dave Ramsey for helping make us financially independent. My wife and I love it. We are moving into, let's call it, a semi retirement modality of life. And as part of that move, we moved down to South Florida where I used to live, to be the closer to our parents. And it is turned into an emotionally very difficult experience for me. I am. We are. We actually put our house. We moved down here, bought a house, put it on the market after. After two months, sold it that we're now kind of in rental mode, and we're considering moving up north, kind of where we had some original desire to move to. And I feel like I'm kind of trapped in this loop where I cannot convince myself that it's okay to do this. I feel guilty about it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What's the anchor, brother?

[Zach]

My parents are here. My wife's parents are here. They're pretty much independent. They're all independent. My mother, she does rely on us financially, and I help her out around the house. She needs help around the house from time to time.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Why was it so emotionally and psychologically draining?

[Zach]

I had to, you know, for a long time, there's nothing I wanted to do but move back here. You know, I. I grew up not with a lot of money. Went off, you know, made money, became, you know, financially successful and had kind of had his dreams come back here and do all these things I used to do, but I couldn't do when I was a kid. And then over the years, I just kind of grew out of that need to do that and just kind of fell in love with the Northeast and Maine and Portland.

[Jade Warshaw]

And this is an old dream you cashed in on?

[Zach]

That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's an old dream. And is this one. Living here when I was a kid was not pleasant for me for a lot of reasons. Part of it. Just a lot of. A lot of emotional baggage. A lot of things I kind of do and see around here, that kind of reminded me of stuff I don't to be reminded of.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So do you. Are you feeling guilty about moving just because you've.

[Zach]

Leaving the parents?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, leaving the parents.

[Zach]

Especially my mom, who's.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How old is she?

[Zach]

She's 77, 78 now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

You said they're independent.

[Zach]

Yeah. Well, my. So, yeah. So there's three sets of parents here. My. My. My wife's parents have now moved to the same town that my parents were living in. They're here. They're totally independent. My father is living here. He has Parkinson's now, but he's independent. He has a wife. He's being taken care of. And he's. His health and his mental. He's. He's fine. And then my mom is living by herself alone in. In a house that I'm in the house I grew up with as a kid.

[Jade Warshaw]

So this is. And. And then you. Where your place was, did you move into that same hometown or were you kind of an hour away? What did you guys do?

[Zach]

No, I am. We're in the same. The same county, same hometown. Yeah. We're five, three, four miles away from them. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Listen, I'm going to commiserate with you For a minute. Because there's part of this that I understand. When Sam and I took the job to come to Ramsey, I'd lived in Nashville before, and it wasn't a great time for me, that time in my life was not what I would call a great time. And so coming back, I was like, I'm not gonna go and live in that part of town because I don't want to be passing by these types of. You know what I mean? Like those types of memories all the time. So I almost wonder. There's two parts of this, and John is going to be the expert, but part of me wonders if you're there for the right reasons, because if you're not, why stay? But if you decide that it is the right reason, what would it look like for you to be close to them, but not in your childhood city? You know what I mean? And not in the same place that you experience whatever negative kind of vibe that you experienced before?

[Zach]

And we did move. Go ahead.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, you go ahead. You moved. What?

[Zach]

We did. So we did.

[Jade Warshaw]

Shoot.

[Zach]

I did choose an area that I didn't really hang out on as a kid in. So we are living somewhere that we actually both like the area as far as being here. But, you know, and so that's helped some. But, I mean, this whole county was my stomping ground. So it's not like, you know and I know. So I know Florida very well. This is. This is probably the best place in Florida to be, quite honestly. If you're going to be here, this is where you want to be.

[Caller 2]

But.

[Jade Warshaw]

But you could go further down and get the Coral Springs area. It's nice.

[Zach]

Yeah. And then it's more expensive. And you're not wrong.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Where did you move? Where did you move from?

[Zach]

I. So I spent the last 25 years, five years in Atlanta. Atlanta, Georgia. Four seasons, you know, which we. Which we loved.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We just.

[Zach]

I just fell in love with Four Seasons.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Here's what. Here's a couple of things just to. I did the same thing. I moved. My parents are in their mid-70s, and it was the right thing for me and my family. And it's the worst. It's worst on guilt. It's worst on. I now have on the back of a napkin when I see him. Twice a year, maybe, Right. So I'm gonna see him 20 more times before they pass away. That's the math. Right. And so I had to make a choice, to choose guilt over resentment. If I stayed in that small town where they live, I know I would. I Would dump all of my angst onto them. And it's not fair because it's not theirs. It would have been mine. But when I left, I feel real guilty about it. I do. And it's hard to connect. And I've lost. We used to have walk in and out of each other's house. Like, that's gone now. Right now we have to make schedules. A year out. We're gonna try. Like, it sucks. It's the worst. And so that's number one. Number two, I was not. I did not anticipate moving halfway across the country that the person who would come with me was me. So all my insecurities, frustrations, childhood drama, all that crap came across the country with me. So whatever you think you're running from will go with you to Oregon. And so Portland, Maine. Or Portland or to Maine. Wherever. Wherever you're going to go, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It will go with you. You. And so knowing that if you've got demons to work through, dude, work through your demons. Forget the geography. You got to work through your childhood crap. And healing would be, can I drive through those old streets and remember that thing that happened and not have my body set off every alarm system it has as though I am back to being nine years old again? That's healing.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, and also, I don't want to live there, so I'm not going to live there.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's really it.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. You don't need some grand narrative as to say, I really want to live here. But you are going to have to deal with the guilt part, and that's just part of it.

[Jade Warshaw]

And it's okay if your dream changes? Like, it's okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Absolutely.

[Jade Warshaw]

If back in the day, you were like, one of these days, I'm going to go back to West Palm beach and I'm going to do all the things that I couldn't do. Like, if that was your dream at some point in life. But now here you are in your 40s or 50s, I don't know how old you are, and you're like, who cares? I'm my own guy. I'm happy in my life. I'm a northeast coast guy now, and that's who I am. Great. Yeah. Dreams change.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I was always gonna have this kind of car, and that would let me know, dude, I want old pickup truck. I'm gonna move on my life. Right. So the thing is, is I want you to not outsource this angst onto them, onto the geography instead. I want this to be a decision you are choosing to make. And that choice is going to come with some guilt, some awesomeness, some clarity, some frustration. It's going to come with all that stuff. So it's about taking ownership of what you do next. You've sold your house, you want to go. You're gone in your head, you're just, your feet are stuck somewhere. Just go. And by the way, in the same way that you bought a house and sold it, in two months, you can go up to the north east and realize, oh, this is a terrible mistake. I need to be back with my parents and come right back. It just is what it is, man. You're free as a bird to do what you're going to do. Just take ownership of the choices you're making in your life.

[Jade Warshaw]

Choose guilt over resentment every time. Marinate on that until we see you. Next time on the Ramsey Show.

[Rachel Cruz]

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[Jade Warshaw]

From the Ramsey Network, it's the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshot. Next to me, my good buddy, Dr. John Deloney. We're working together, taking your calls, your life, your money. Give us a free call. Remember, it's a live show. So the number is 888-825-5225 will get you in. Let's go directly to the phone lines. I'm ready to just detail.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Let's go to town.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, Janie in Dallas, Texas. What's up, Janie?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hello.

[Deborah]

My question is, is I Recently had a parent in law passed away and I was informed and told that all the siblings had to come together to pay for the funeral. And while it was very sad what happened, they did leave property behind and vehicles. Several properties as a matter of fact. And so is it okay that I feel like this is not my obligation? Is there something wrong with that, with feeling that way?

[Dr. John Deloney]

You can feel however you want to feel. Feelings are cool. That doesn't make them true.

[Deborah]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And it won't have. It may have zero bearing on what actually happens, but yeah, feel however you want to feel.

[Deborah]

Okay. I just, I'm being made to feel like I'm a bad person because I don't want to help pay for a funeral that I know there's money there and it's, I guess it's just the principle of being told that I, you know, that we've have to pay for the funeral.

[Jade Warshaw]

Who's making you feel bad, your spouse or the in law? Siblings?

[Deborah]

My spouse.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you all have the money?

[Deborah]

We do.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

I want to know what John's gonna say, but I want to know too, two things before he says it. Number one, how much?

[Deborah]

It's just, it was just under $3,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Per, per sibling, like, per sibling. Family. Okay.

[Deborah]

There's eight of them.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There's eight brothers and sisters.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. So 24, 000 for this funeral is what we're looking at.

[Deborah]

Correct.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, then, then another, the other part. And John's gonna say what, he's gonna say the other part. If I were in your shoes, this, this is the situation. I'm thinking if I had, and I don't know what your relationship was with the in laws, but if I had a poor relationship with my in laws, if I didn't really have a relationship with them, I care two cents. And I'm finding out that our cut of the thing is 3,000, which that's not the case. But I'm just saying my first inclination would be to say, well, how would I feel if it was reverse and if it was my family, what would I. What is the treatment that I would hope from my spouse? So that's just kind of where my mind first goes, John.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, I think it's 100. I go, if, if I was a guess, a betting man, I would bet you've been quote, unquote told what y'all are going to do for holidays, for meals, for shopping, for how many presents you've been, you're tired of being told, huh?

[Deborah]

Correct?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes. And so it sounds like your feelings are Your feelings, you can have them all day long. This is your husband's mom or your husband's dad.

[Deborah]

Got it?

[Dr. John Deloney]

And if you got 3,000 bucks, you got it. And if there's a whole bunch of property 17 years after it's all been filtered through all eight siblings and their spouses and their kids and ex spouses and all that, you'll get your 3,000 bucks back.

[Deborah]

Got it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean. I mean, if you were telling me, hey, this is going to put us on the street, and my. My husband's putting all this on a credit card. He went out and took a HELOC out, then we're sitting down. Because I would have a conversation with him. Like, math doesn't care that your parents just passed away. You don't have that money.

[Deborah]

Got it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. Y'all do. This is just about. You are tired of getting pushed around by his family. Is that fair?

[Deborah]

Very fair.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. This is. This is. Outside of. And Jade push back on me. Outside of. We. We simply don't have the money.

[Deborah]

It's not the first time it's happened. And so I guess I know, you know, like it happens all the time, and I'm just.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so here's the deal. Yeah, it's happened a whole bunch. It's going to happen a whole bunch after this. But when the house is underwater, that's not the time to talk about. I told you, you should replace the faucet. That's the time to get all the water out of the house. Start bailing the water out. Once the water's bailed out, then we're going to go to breakfast and we're going to talk about, hey, in the future. Every time I feel like that your brothers and sisters and their spouses have more influence on our home than I do you. And I didn't say I do to all of them. I said I do to you. This is our home. Can we come up with some boundaries for what's going to. What is is going to be? What is is going to be. If that means coming up with a fund that he puts money into every month, like a sinking fund that is just take care of his boundaryless family members because he doesn't have any spine. Cool. Come up with that fund. Okay, but with. With one of his parents in a casket right now, that's just a weird time to. To throw the gauntlet down for 25 or $3,000 money y'all have.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, that. And it makes you the bad guy.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. And they're Exactly. Here's the Bad guy here. The bad guy here is nobody. Just. It stinks that we lost a parent.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. And so I would hold his hand through grief and say, I'm sorry for causing a ruckus. Let's put our 3,000 bucks in. And then when this whole thing is over, when he's. Y'all write your. You know, y'all are doing your grief. Y'all are talking about what now? How are you. Then you come up with the boundaries conversation. Hey, this has happened our entire marriage, and I want to draw a line here. Is that fair?

[Deborah]

That's very fair.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. I'm sorry about your loss. And by the way, your feelings. Anybody listening? Your feelings are your feelings. You can have them. You're allowed to. That doesn't change reality, though.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, right. But what you said is such a good point. Don't. Don't draw the line in the sand. Don't die on the hill while you're still, you know, climbing up it. Like, wait till you get to the top and be like, okay, now let's talk.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I remember one of my professors has told me, like, no one has ever had an aha moment after 10 o'clock at night. Go to bed. Yeah, go to bed. Right? That old. Like, don't go to bed on your anger sometimes. Go to bed.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Y'all are together. You're united. You'll figure it out. Go to bed and figure it out. After everybody's eaten and somebody's had some coffee and the sun is back out, that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, that's so funny. Sam and I learned early on in our marriage, like, there's something about standing in the kitchen that it's not a good time.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's never a good time.

[Jade Warshaw]

It always turns out to an argument. If you're standing up in the kitchen after hours and you bring up something that's a hot button issue, it will be an argument.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes. And so even last night, my wife said, and it's because she's awesome. I want to talk about calendar and then budget. And then it was more budget. And then. And we got all the way into, all right, but if I move over this for my son's freshman year of college. He's a freshman high school, by the way. And she said. She literally goes, you have seven minutes. Because it's getting up on 9:00. And she's like, yeah, seven minutes. And then. And then I turned back into a pumpkin. And it was like. Like, we don't have any productive conversations after seven. And I get all nihilist and Then what happens when the dollar collapses and she's like, dude, I just want go to bed.

[Jade Warshaw]

But you know what? Do you know what I find when you figure out those things that kind of takes the steam out. Like Sam and I figured out early on if we go for a walk always and we're not looking at like, you probably know this shoulder. Shoulder, dude, the professional. But when we're not looking at each other, it. We can talk about some of the most like high, like things that would usually turn into an argument. We're able to talk through them because we're not looking directly. Like staring face to face watching every nuance of your reaction. It's like just go for a walk, hold hands.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, that's why I always tell people when you have hard conversations, don't have them at dinner, have them at breakfast because the sun is out, you've got some sleep and you can standing in the kitchen. Don't do it. Stay in the kitchen.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sit down at the table. But yeah, like, like, yeah, the environment plays a big role into this. But yeah, if, when somebody's parent has passed away, if there's trauma there, it's gonna hurt. If they were super tight, it's gonna hurt. It's just gonna hurt. And that's not the time to be like, well, I told you, let's get through that funeral. And if you got the money, you got the money, you got the money, right?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So thanks for that call that, that. Janie, your willingness to be open about your feelings is going to help a lot of people. Because I think a lot of people right now, Jay, don't feel like they have permission to feel that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Feel how they want to feel.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Doesn't change reality though.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And we have to operate in reality.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's true. Very, very good advice. Dr. John Deloney, as usual. Glad you're sitting here co hosting with me. Hey, we'll be right back with you. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Nicholas]

You've got a lot to keep organized in life. Kids and calendars and carpooling and cleaning. I mean it is so much. That's why you need a Knockbox. That way if something happens to you, you leave your loved ones with happy memories and not a huge mess. Knockbox is a complete system to help you organize your accounts, personal history, estate planning documents and all your other info in one place.

[Jade Warshaw]

Place.

[Nicholas]

I'm talking about everything from life insurance policies and social media accounts to your dog's vet divided into 15 simple categories. Plus they've got checklists that Tell you what to add to each folder so your family won't have to guess where everything is. So start getting organized [e-mail] Ramsey your family will thank you. That's knockbox n o k box.com Ramsey.

[Rachel Cruz]

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're someone you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near [e-mail] agent ramseysolutions.com agent in.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're listening to the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Dr. John Deloney. Taking your calls, your life, your money. Hope that you are enjoying this new year. I hope that you are well into your new ways of life. I'm not even going to call them goals. Let's just say your new way of life, your new habits. And I hope it's working out well for you. If you're feeling stuck with your money, we can help you with that. Triple 882-552-5225 is the number we got John in Chicago, Illinois. What's going on, John?

[Caller 2]

Hey, thanks guys. I'm looking to propose to the girlfriend within the next year or so and I'm curious about how I should go about doing that. Like financially, like what's the best way to calculate or determine how much one should spend on an engagement ring.

[Jade Warshaw]

Interesting. What do you earn?

[Caller 2]

So right now I'm 21. I'm a full time college student. I only make $15 an hour, but I do have $30,000 in cash just kind of waiting to pull the trigger. I know that's probably too much, but.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, way too much.

[Jade Warshaw]

I love that you would have been willing to spend that though. That's sweet.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're out of your mouth, John.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm just saying it's sweet, brother.

[Dr. John Deloney]

John, that's crazy talk. Don't spend $30,000 on.

[Caller 2]

I definitely wasn't planning on that. Want to be financially stable for it?

[Dr. John Deloney]

75 to dollars.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, no, no, no. See, we can't go. We can't be going to extremes like this. So, okay, in a month. What do you bring in in a month?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Zero.

[Jade Warshaw]

Because you said $15 an hour, right?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Caller 2]

Maybe a thousand dollars.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so traditionally people say like three Months income if you can save it up, right?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I thought David said one month.

[Jade Warshaw]

I, well, I'm, I'm getting to that. Okay, so tradition is like three months. Months.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That seems wildcats to me.

[Jade Warshaw]

It depends on the lady. Let me lay it out, John. Let me lay it out.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm cheap, John. America, I'm cheap.

[Jade Warshaw]

Here's what I want you to filter through. Like current, current tradition is like three months. I think you're right. I think I have heard Dave. I don't want to put words in Dave's mouth, but I feel like I have heard him say maybe one month. Then you have to think about your lady. Some women are like, you could take a string and tie it around my finger and if it's romantic, I'm in. Right. And then other people who are on the, the more on the bougie side of the scale, like yours truly, might want a little something extra and they might cause you to come correct, you know, and then if I look at.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Jade's hand wrong, it blinds me, John. It blinds me.

[Jade Warshaw]

The truth is Sam bought a ring and I was like, and got a different one. So this, this, this matters. Okay, so on the one hand, don't, don't spend 30,000. That's way too much. But is there something around the three? You know, do you think she'd be happy if you spent one month's worth, or do you think she'd be happier if you spent three? The truth is, I think she'd be.

[Caller 2]

Happy if it happens.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, there you go.

[Caller 2]

She's definitely not bougie.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I, I would, I, I would. Again, I haven't shopped for a diamond in over two decades, so I have no reference point, but I. You got 30, 000 bucks in the bank. I think 3,000 bucks, 4,000 bucks sounds about right.

[Jade Warshaw]

That seems right. How old are you again?

[Dr. John Deloney]

21.

[Caller 2]

I'm 21.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Like you're like. That's, that's impressive. Where'd you get that money, dude? I, I, I made it sound like you're like, killed somebody.

[Caller 2]

Like business ventures.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, okay.

[Caller 2]

Nothing crazy, just lots of saving.

[Jade Warshaw]

Good.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Excellent, man. Well, that's, that's pretty remarkable for a 21 year old man. There's millions and millions of adults that don't have that kind of money, so. Good on you. Hey, I got a proposition for you. You want to, you want to get on hold right now and call her and ask her to marry you on the air right now? Come on, man.

[Caller 2]

She's totally not with us. Or not with Me right now know.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Ask on the phone. That happens all the time now. Can you. You probably could, like, FaceTime her now.

[Caller 2]

I think she. She doesn't want it over the phone. She don't want it on the Internet.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know, dude. I'm playing. I was just testing.

[Jade Warshaw]

I wasn't joking. I was so ready for this moment.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You passed the test. Good. Good on you.

[Caller 2]

Oh, well, I'm sorry, Ramsey fans. That can't happen.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, take a video. Tag us in it. I want to know about this. I'm proud of you. And remember, it's not the ring that. That. The ring doesn't really. It matters, but it is not the whole. You're gonna be married forever.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Forever.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right. Forever. And, you know, I look at my ring from time to time, and I'm like, this is a nice ring, but if something were to happen to it, if I never had it, I'd still be married to Sam Warshaw, and I'd be a happy lady.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So that's a nice ring. That's a nice car.

[Jade Warshaw]

It is. You want to know? It's got. It's not perfect. It's not a perfect diamond. It's got inclusion.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But I. I love what's so cool about today. I don't even know what that means.

[Jade Warshaw]

It means it's imperfect, just like a relationship.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's where you're wrong. My relationship's perfect. Let's go out to Akron, Ohio, and talk to Zatch. What's up, Zach?

[Jade Warshaw]

Not Zatch. Never say that, Zach.

[Zach]

It's not even spelled that way.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So there you go. I like it. What's up, Zach?

[Zach]

So I'm on, baby. Set up to I'm almost paid off with a credit card. My question is if I should pay off my 401k loans next or jump straight to the next credit card.

[Jade Warshaw]

I would go to the 401k loan first, because that bad boy is on a timer. There's a couple of things that I'd always put to the top of the list. IRS debt, 400k, one loan. 401k loan is one of them. Because the truth is, if something were to happen, you were to lose your job, you'd be on the hook for that. You'd have a calendar year to pay that bad boy before you start getting hit with fees and penalties beyond what you already have. How much is it for?

[Zach]

I have one for 4,001 for 8,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Uhhuh. Yeah, I'd get into it. What caused you to take them out?

[Zach]

Debt consolidation. And then I ran back up the balances as. As you often do.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, yeah. Hey, just as a. Just as a curiosity, because so many people call in here and they. They're like, jade, why can't I do debt consolidation? And one of the things I tell people is that sometimes when you've consolidated it into one payment, you feel like you've done something, but you haven't really done anything. Right. And it's only one payment, and you kind of feel like you've got less. Is that what happened to you? Did you feel what. What do you think caused you to go back in?

[Zach]

I just didn't change my habits. You know, I only had that hundred dollar payment, so, you know, I had that extra money back in my budget every month, and so I could afford all that stuff on Amazon and it's like we're pivoted.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Listen, you're helping people. Yeah, I agree. I would go first to these 401k loans and clear those out, just because, like I said, similar to the irs, they're on that timer and there's a lot of risk associated with that. And then how much more do you have to pay off until you're done?

[Zach]

22,000. So I have 10,000 on that last credit card and then 12,000 on a personal loan.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. All right. Yeah, yeah, that's what I would do.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Get on it, brother. Congratulations, dude. You are on the path to freedom, my man.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oo. I think we can hit one more right quick. Can we do it? We got two minutes. Should I do it?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hold on. We got to do this.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If you're ready to get your finances in order once and for all in 2025, join Jade and my main man Dave Ramsey on January 23rd for the free live stream. Take control of your money. Jade and Dave are going to be hosting this. You're going to learn how to stop living paycheck to paycheck and free up more breathing room so you can pay off debt fast and finally get ahead with your money. And Rachel Cruz and George Campbell are going to show up for a live Q A where you can ask your money questions live and you can be entered to win $4,000. Yeah, and I like taking Dave's money.

[Jade Warshaw]

I love it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's one of my favorite things. You sign up for the free live stream by going to ramseysolutions.com livestream or you can click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. J Money, what are you all going to be talking about?

[Jade Warshaw]

Practically speaking, we're gonna listen, I'm tell you how the whole thing's gonna roll out. We're going to talk to you about how you're feeling right now. The state of the economy, what's going on external, internally, right? We got inflation, real estate market's been weird. Election just happened. There's a lot going on. You're feeling some type of way. So Dave's going to unpack that. He's going to tell a little of his story. I'm going to tell a little of my story. We're going to talk about how to make traction, right? We're going to talk about the debt snowball. We're going to answer questions about investing. So we're hitting all of it. And then I am going to do a budget breakdown. I'm going to show you how to set up your budget because that budget is the foundation of everything we teach. If you've listened to this show even for just a second, you've heard us talk about budgeting. And so I'm going to walk you real time through how to do that, how to set it up. And then afterwards we're having a Q A and George Campbell's on the line. Rachel Cruz is going to be on the line. And listen, we can't be stopped.

[Dr. John Deloney]

One of the most common things, like when I meet with people who are behind closed doors, fly in, we'll sit down for a while. They have net worths that I can't even fathom. One of the most common questions that they talk about, they ask me is with some bit of shame in the conversation, dude, tell me about this budget thing. Like what do you mean? They run big companies and this idea of I don't even know how that works. It's a humbling, scary question to ask. Ask. And so if you have wondered, I don't even know how to do a budget or you think I know how to do it but you never have done it. And it's just like, dude, I'm embarrassed to ask anybody. This is the event for you. It's free. It's free. You can be at your house and just put it on the screen and watch it and get control of everything. I'm hyped for it, man.

[Jade Warshaw]

Budgets are like toothbrushes. Everyone needs one and you got to.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Use it twice a day.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Without it, things get ratchet. No matter how much money you make or don't make, you need a budget. Budget. And we'll talk about just that. January 23rd. Be there or be square. This is the Ramsey show.

[Rachel Cruz]

People tell me about their experiences with big banks all the time. Bad service fees that nickel and dime them to death and predatory lending that tries to catch them in never ending cycles of debt. So if you're ready for a bank that puts people over profits, check out Fairwinds Credit Union. I recommend Fairwinds because they share our Ramsey values of helping people get out of debt and live generously. If you go to fairwinds.org Ramsey you'll see the combined checking and savings account bundle they created just for Ramsey fans. This account bundle is designed to help you take control of your finances and stay out of debt. And Fairwinds also has a great mobile app that's safe and secure so you can manage your transactions with peace of mind. Fairwinds has been helping people avoid big bank traps for 75 years, so go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey to learn more. It's easy to join no matter where you live. That's F A I R W I n d s.org hey, what's going on?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Happy New Year everyone. This is my favorite time of the year. January gives me a chance to reset and make intentional choices and I like to break down big dreams into small practical goals. Instead of trying to do everything all at once, I create new systems and I create a simple roadmap of what I'm gonna do next. The EveryDollar budgeting app helps you do the same thing. Making a budget is a great starting point to help you break down your big money goals into smaller steps. The EveryDollar app even has a goal setting feature to help you stay on Track. I believe 2025 is going to be your year. Picture yourself 12 months from now looking at your budget and you're proud of yourself. Imagine that feeling. Figure out what must be true to get there and go map out an amazing year with every dollar Today. Download it in the App Store for free.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're listening to the Ramsey Show. Thanks for hanging out with us. The Ramsey show question of the day is brought to you by why Refi? Student loan debt is a swamp thousands of people find it hard to escape from. So don't be another statistic in the student loan swamp.

[Caller 1]

Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's a real thing. Student Loan Swamp. Wow. For distressed private student loans, there's why Refi we trust why Refi? Because they help you with low fixed interest rate to get you a low fixed interest rate you couldn't get anywhere else. To help you stick to your budget and get out of debt. Learn more about why refi.com Ramsey. That's the letter Y. R-E-F-Y.com. remember, it may not be available in all states.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All right, today's question comes from Hannah in Nebraska. Hannah writes, I'm a stay at home mom with two kids under the age of four. My husband is a high school teacher making $56,000 a year and he works 10 to 15 hours a day. During the summer, he works a job where he only earns a thousand dollars a month. I understand he wants to make a difference in these young people's lives. However, we can't make ends meet. Meat. I make all our meals from scratch to save money, but it isn't enough. We have $45,000 in consumer debt and we owe $80,000 on a HELOC. We drive junker cars that are paid off. My husband is very good at his job, but earns so little and has crappy benefits. They only cover his medical insurance. So the kids and I are on a separate health plan. If I got a job, my whole salary would go to daycare. I'm grateful for all the blessings God has given us, but today I felt something break inside and I don't know how to move forward. What do I do with the feelings of resentment that I have?

[Jade Warshaw]

That is a deep one.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What do you think, Jade?

[Jade Warshaw]

You said it earlier, John, about math, not giving up. What about you? Right? And I think this is one of those situations where there is a part of what we teach which is this method for getting out of debt and finding financial peace. Right. For those of you who are not familiar with it, it's the seven steps, baby steps. And the first three ones are like humdingers, right? Because it's. You're kind of doing the scorched earth thing to get a thousand dollars saved. Then you're going, you know, balls to the wall. You're paying off your debt, except your mortgage, and then you're continuing that intensity to get three to six months of expenses saved. Doing that would give her piece like she's never experienced. Right?

[Rachel Cruz]

Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

With a $80,000 HELOC and 45,000 in consumer debt, that would give her what she's probably looking for. But in order to get to that would require deep sacrifice. And part of that deep sacrifice is not always doing the job that you ultimately want to end up at in order to get it done. Right. There's part of this where you do a job. You might do a job because it earns you more money. You might do a job because it allows you to the flexibility to do other jobs. You might do a job where you're working day and night, but it's only for a short period of time so you can get this done.

[Caller 1]

So.

[Jade Warshaw]

So the sacrificial part of this is real. And that might be a very real part of your equation. If he's making 56, 000, then, you know, the two or three summer months, he's making another 3,000 combined. That's part of it. Now if he's making 60,000 whole year combined in Nebraska, that's. I will also, on the other side of this, say that is median income. So there might be part of this. I think median income is like 67, but if you're at 60, you're. You're pretty much there. So there might be part of this. She doesn't mention anything about the house. I don't know how much, you know, the house is taking up their money.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, sounds like they have two mortgages on it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. So that could be part of the problem. I don't know, Hannah, but it's possible that your mortgage could be more than 25% of your take home. And if that's the case, you will be feeling it. And then to her point, daycare is expensive. Okay. For one kid, my daughter, it's 1400. $1400 a month.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And when my son was in, his was 1200, her place just went up and we actually put her in a different school once his was freed up. So the idea that, okay, for her, she's got to take home at least 4,000 for her to feel like she's making money. Right. And so for her, she's probably like, I don't know, know. So there. What I want to highlight here is as much as I love people to do work that they love, and as much as that's part of our heartbeat here, there is part of it where you go, okay, what can I do in the meantime? Maybe he goes back to being a teacher, but maybe for now he gets into a field. I don't know if there's one he can get into, but something where he makes more or maybe he's tutoring for a while. There's got to be something else in addition to. Or pivot altogether.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Here's my hot tip take. Teachers are number three on the millionaires in the United States according to the Ramsey study that they did. Yeah, right. And when I dug into that, Dave and I have, have, have gone back and forth and he talks a lot about teachers are they're experts at making a plan and following it for an entire year. That's what they do.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

They make lesson plans. Having grown up, I mean, having been married to a. The person I married was an elementary school teacher. That's what she's doing. I also got a ringside seat. She understood the world. She entered. Right. So she entered what I call a Corolla world. That's what she expected to drive forever because she knew I want to do this thing. And so I'm going to build a life that requires that. That. That can be. That I can live on. On this salary. It's what I signed up for. I don't believe you have a right to, quote, unquote, work your passion or quote, unquote, make a difference when you've made previous choices that put your family $125,000 in the whole hole.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I want there to be amazing teachers. We need amazing teachers. And this husband has this guy who works as a teacher making 56 grand. Made choices.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I'm blaming him. His wife may be fully on board with these. Y'all made choices. That said, you can't work your passion right now because we owe everybody facts. Right. And so when you get this 120 grand paid off, then you start having these passion conversation. I had this conversation with people who want to go be pastors, and they have 100 grand coming out of seminary debt, student loan debt. You can't. Yeah, you can't afford to quote, unquote, work at your mission church. Because before you chose your quote, unquote mission, you told a bank, hey, if you guys will pay for me to go to school, I'll pay y'all back when I get out. And you can't afford to. On this. On this quote, unquote mission salary, social workers. In my world, new therapist. If you go to some fancy school and take out 200 grand alone, you can't go be a therapist. Working with the least of these in our communities, which we desperately need because you've taken so much money out beforehand. And so that's number one. Number two, Hannah has. I think she has either ordered. And so. Meaning I either work full time and my salary doesn't do anything, or I have to stay at home and not make any money.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's not true.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I've got some friends. One of my closest friends in the world. World. He is a school teacher, and he's also a writer. An amazing family, and his wife stays at home with kids, and she keeps three or four or five or six or seven other kids. And they are both exhausted when they go to bed at night. But they make it work.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's the thing. These are only. This is not the way you live your life for the rest of your life. This is a short term sacrifice for a long term goal. So if, even if you're a stay at home mom, there is something you can do. And to your point, you're going to be exhausted, like your eyes are going to be bleary. There's no getting around that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I also want to add to this an eighty thousand dollar heloc. Typically it's not one spouse that makes that choice.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right. You know, it's unfair to dump all this on him. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And so now the, the thousand dollars a month in the summertime, that ain't gonna cut it. Like you just. There's gotta be more to this. And I, I feel like I don't know what it is, John. I feel like more and more. I don't know if it's just the way of the world or like culture right now, but I feel like, like more and more. When we tell people you've got to grind it out, there's just kind of like this scoff of like that's not possible or. Are you kidding? Have you seen my life? Or it's, there's just kind of this part of it where they think we're not being serious. Like, are you, are you really?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Meaning where it's frustrating is you and I both, I don't make it about us, but we've both been to the. Grind it out.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You know what I mean?

[Jade Warshaw]

And it's a real, it's a real place.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's, it's a real frustrating, frustrating rage inducing place. But it's the, it's the jet fuel that gets you to that next line, right?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I can't think of a conversation other than telling somebody that a loved one has passed away that I would want to have more than sitting down with this husband and father who's a great teacher and saying the world needs you, but you made choices together with your wife before today. And so as, as Paul Thomas Anderson once said, you may be through the past, the passing through with you. And so you're gonna have to either stop working 15 hours a day, you're gonna have to move into administration like tomorrow and double your salary, or you're gonna have to work three jobs in the summer until you get this stuff paid off. Yeah, man, that's, that's, that's the choice.

[Jade Warshaw]

There's no getting around it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's math.

[Jade Warshaw]

I want to know where the real ones are out there who are willing to be a one car family and grind it out for a year. I want to know the folks who are willing to sell their. Their beloved televisions and their. Their. Their. Their big sectional couches and really make deep sacrifices. Who are willing to work and work and work some more to make deep sacrifices. You have a call center job, you have your 9 to 5 job, and you sell cookies on the side. I want to know where those folks are because those are the folks who are getting out of debt and they're doing it quickly. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hey, Dave Ramsey here. Dr. John DeLoney and I are coming to a city near you on the Money and Relationships tour. You, the audience will vote to choose the topics. We talk about things that impact your life, like investing in your future, money, stress and marriage and more. We're coming to Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Kansas City, Fort Worth, and Phoenix in April and May, 2025. Tickets are at their lowest price right now. Grab [e-mail] tour.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're listening to the Ramsey show on the Ramsey Network. Network. And hey, just a reminder, the next hour of the show, if you want to catch it, you'll have to go on to the Ramsey Network app. You'll be able to see all three hours of the show on the app. And I like it because there's not as many interruptions. It's uninterrupted Ramsey stuff.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And that's when James Childs gets off the rails in the Ramsey Network app. It's worth checking out.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right, let's take a call. Let's go to Deborah. She's in Phoenix, Arizona. What's going on, Deborah?

[Deborah]

Hello there. Thanks for taking my call.

[Jade Warshaw]

You bet. How can we help?

[Deborah]

So I'm 56 and my husband just passed away on the 29th, so two weeks ago.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm so sorry. What was his name?

[Deborah]

Chad.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Chet. Awesome guy.

[Deborah]

Yep. Kind of amazing. He was a pastor. He was 69. I'm 56, so 12 and a half years difference. Yeah. Pretty amazing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm so sorry.

[Deborah]

Thank you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Long time coming, or was it pretty sudden?

[Deborah]

We just discovered this cancer about two and a half years ago. And just the last three weeks, something happened real fast. And so it's probably an answer to prayer that we didn't want him to suffer and for him to go fast. And so that's what happened.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm so sorry. That's tough.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Deborah]

Thank you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So sorry. Are you Still. Are you still waking up every day unable to catch your breath or has the sun come back out? Like, like where are you right now?

[Deborah]

Yeah. Getting out of bed before 9am is a chore. Yeah. And then trying to quiet my mind at night, it's hard. My son, he's here right now, but he's getting ready to leave today. So I'll be by myself. So those quiet mornings and evenings are going to to be very loud very soon.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you have some friends that can come hang out with you?

[Deborah]

I do. I live in an active adult community and this community is like nothing I've ever experienced. Yeah. So they're just waiting for me to leave the bubble so they can inundate me with love.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's fantastic. So two things before. We haven't got to your question yet, but if you don't want to get out of bed, you're not broken. Totally normal.

[Deborah]

Okay, thank you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And if you're laying in bed and every one like thing I should have said, should have done, I wonder if every worry you have 30 years from all that. Totally normal, you're not broken. Okay. Good news, you're not crazy. And if you want to do one brave and courageous thing that will pay astronomical dividends five years from now, text a couple of your girlfriends and, and commit to one morning a week getting up at 7 o'clock and going to have coffee.

[Deborah]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. Just something that will, that you need to look forward to and plan forward. And that's not an everyday thing. Everything's too, every, every day is too much right now. But putting one of those on the calendar, two of those on the calendar will a give your, your friends something to do so they're not just sitting there on your front porch like vultures, like, what do we do? What do we do? But also, even though you're going to go to bed at night, the night before, be so annoyed that this is on the calendar. I don't want to go. I don't want to go. But if you get up and go five years from now, it will pay off in a pretty remarkable way. Okay. I'm so sorry for your loss. So how can we help you today?

[Deborah]

Yeah, so. Oh my gosh. He was. The only thing he left me with was a big giant bucket of love.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's the nicest way I've ever heard that said on the show.

[Deborah]

So no retirement, no life insurance, no savings? No. I mean, I was even joking with everybody in my family. It's like, oh my gosh, I was gonna send a thank you. Card out. And I don't even have stamps, so I'm like, I don't even have stamps. So he had a brain aneurysm 1212 years ago. And so nobody would insure him for life insurance. And this is how this whole thing started with me, you know, harping on him to try to at least get some sort of life insurance because I just had a feeling he was not gonna live long. And that's when somebody came to the house to do the physical and they said, your numbers are too elevated. And so we had no idea what that meant. And then we found out that he had cancer. So no life insurance, except for an $8,000 policy which is going to take care of the two services, one here in Arizona and one in Washington, that I have to do. And it's going to eat that up. So I just don't have any other resources financially. I am a self employed realtor and I do. Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, the last few years have been brutal.

[Deborah]

Oh, it's been awful. It's been awful.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Also, can I go back to something you said? If you can't afford to do two services, you don't do two services. Okay. And I know you think you have to, and people are expected. They don't get a vote right now because you are in an existential moment. Okay. And there's gonna be.

[Deborah]

Somebody has sent us money for that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So. Okay, good, good, good, good. Okay. So how are you paying your, your bills right now? How are you keeping your four walls up?

[Deborah]

With my career, Real estate.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you have enough money to do that?

[Deborah]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, what do you earn from real estate? What's like a good year for you or a month, a monthly look at take home for you?

[Deborah]

Oh, probably about 160.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And you're pretty consistent throughout.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Even in the last few years?

[Deborah]

Yeah, it has grown the last couple years. And I've turned my business into an llc.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Amazing. Good for you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Good.

[Deborah]

And we have a trust, so it's all buttoned up in there.

[Jade Warshaw]

What, what's your biggest, what's your biggest concern right now, financially?

[Deborah]

Retirement. Retirement. Not that I'm going to retire anytime soon, but I just need to better position myself because I live in a community where there's unlimited resources that everybody has. You know, this is, they're living their best life. This is the last chapter in everybody's lives. And, and I am lucky to live here. I feel very fortunate to live here, but I don't have unlimited resources.

[Jade Warshaw]

Can you afford to live there?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Can you afford to live there.

[Deborah]

I can, because my rate's 3.5 and I can't imagine going anywhere else unless it's somewhere in Timbuktu.

[Jade Warshaw]

Let's look at this. Let's look at this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

3.5 on $5 million is still a ton of money. Money. Right. Even if it's a great deal.

[Jade Warshaw]

Let's look at it as a whole. Because you said you, you kind of spoke about it. My husband didn't leave me retirement. There's no savings. Did you have anything set aside? I'm just wondering, I don't know how you guys managed your finances. If it was separate, if it was together. Is there any saving? Do you have any savings to your name? Basically, is my question.

[Deborah]

Yeah, so I do have the six months. It's just sitting in a state, you know, it's just in our house. And it's like, okay, well, that, that's not growing me any money. So I'm just trying to end. I also have some in the savings at Wells Fargo, you know, so those are not going to. There's no ROI there.

[Jade Warshaw]

So tell me the, tell me the amount. You've got your emergency fund. How much is in that? That's just in the safe.

[Deborah]

20.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And then you've got the other savings. What's in that?

[Deborah]

30.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And then anything else I need to know about?

[Deborah]

We have some SEP individual retirement funds, just like 16 per person, so for he and I. So another 32 there.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Deborah]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

So let me see if I can put your mind at, at ease here. I'm always trying to do the calculators to find out, so. Oh, one other thing before I do this. So tell me about your house. Tell me what you owe on it and what it's worth and what you pay every month.

[Deborah]

So we owe 303. The payment each month is 2014, and I pay an extra 225. So that's cutting off almost five and a half years of the 30 years, plus $35,000 is what I'm cutting off by doing the extra 225amonth.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, good. So I like that you're, you're walking the steps. The only thing I'm wondering is if you're putting away 15 of your income currently, because you told me you have the emergency fund. Six months. Love it. It's perfect where it is in the save. The next step would be for you to be putting away 15 of your income, and you're already doing extra on your mortgage, which is really, really good. So as long as you're doing the 15%, are you?

[Deborah]

I don't think so. I'm not tracking it very well. If I am, I'm trying to tithe and just. And yeah, I haven't had to worry about the finances because my husband, you know, was bringing in an extra 5,000amonth, which was our overhead. And so I felt like anything I was bringing in was just extra.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Deborah]

Understand really policing it or watching it.

[Jade Warshaw]

So here's what I would do if I were you. You. I love that you're paying extra towards the mortgage. I think that's exactly right. If you can get and start putting a 1900amonth into retirement because you have it. If you're. If you're really earning 13, 000amonth, which you say is pretty accurate for you. If you start putting away 15 right now. You said you're 56.

[Deborah]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. By age 70, that's going to grow to $838,000. Just that. So that's a good move. That's if you do nothing else different. Okay. And the idea is you're already working to pay off your home, which is what you need to continue to do. So if you continue to do that, your income continues to go up because you're still young, you're 56. You're not going anywhere. You keep working this real estate thing. I think you're going to be okay. For you, it's just getting in the habit of saying what I do with intentionally with my money does make a difference. It's not extra, it's not gravy. And I think that you're going to make it and I think you're going to be just fine. Give us a call if you need any more help. This is the Ramsey Show.