Big Debt Requires Bigger Discipline

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "Big Debt Requires Bigger Discipline"

Release Date: July 9, 2025

Host: Dave Ramsey and George Camel Ramsey

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Introduction

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, Dave Ramsey and co-host George Camel Ramsey delve into various debt-related issues faced by listeners. The discussion emphasizes the necessity of disciplined financial strategies to overcome substantial debts and build a stable financial future. Throughout the episode, callers present real-life scenarios, seeking guidance on managing debt, budgeting, and making informed financial decisions.

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Caller 1: Amy from San Francisco – Handling Large Monetary Gifts and Family Boundaries

Issue:
Amy recently married and faced a dilemma when her grandmother and aunt wanted to send a substantial monetary gift. Amy and her husband prefer not to accept the gift due to past experiences where money from extended family came with unwanted strings attached, leading to interference in their household decisions.

Discussion:
Dave Ramsey addresses Amy’s concern by emphasizing the importance of setting firm boundaries. He advises that refusing the monetary gift is acceptable and necessary to maintain autonomy in their marriage. Ramsey underscores the need to communicate consistently with family members about their decision to avoid future conflicts.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey [02:40]: "If somebody wants me to send money, I'll take it. I'm still a little confused here."
• Dave Ramsey [04:07]: "What you have is interfering mother-in-law issues... none of you are going to come over here inside this house and tell us what to do."

Timestamp Highlights:

• [00:53] Amy explains the cultural tradition of gifting money in Asian cultures and her reluctance to accept it.
• [04:07] Ramsey discusses setting boundaries to prevent family interference.

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Caller 2: Denise from New York City – Managing Graduate School Debt

Issue:
Denise is entering graduate school with an anticipated student debt of approximately $200,000. She seeks advice on how to tackle this substantial debt while managing her current financial obligations.

Discussion:
Ramsey expresses skepticism about taking on such significant debt, especially in fields like interior design, which may not guarantee high earnings comparable to this investment. He encourages Denise to thoroughly research and consider the long-term implications of her educational choices, highlighting the importance of aligning educational expenses with potential income.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey [12:49]: "This is not how it works out here... you’re going to have to make that to justify this expenditure and to pay it back."
• Dave Ramsey [17:30]: "You've got to do some homework, do some research, and slow down."

Timestamp Highlights:

• [10:42] Denise outlines her situation with impending graduate school debt.
• [12:49] Ramsey questions the financial viability of her investment in interior design.

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Caller 3: Chris from Florida – Stance on Cryptocurrency

Issue:
Chris inquires about Dave Ramsey's evolving perspective on cryptocurrency, noting previous strict opposition and recent softer comments suggesting that investing fun money in crypto is permissible.

Discussion:
Dave Ramsey maintains his critical stance on cryptocurrency, categorizing it as speculative and unreliable compared to traditional currencies. He stresses that cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin are volatile and unsuitable as stable investments, likening them to gambling rather than prudent financial planning.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey [22:00]: "Bitcoin is not a place to invest. If you want to speculate in commodities like gold or silver..., then that's up to you."
• Dave Ramsey [26:50]: "It's like riding the worst roller coaster that went off the rails at Six Flags."

Timestamp Highlights:

• [21:39] Chris questions Ramsey’s stance on crypto.
• [22:00] Ramsey elaborates on why he views crypto as speculative.

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Caller 4: Lelena from Denver – Relocating and Managing Debt

Issue:
Lelana is preparing to relocate from California to Denver and faces challenges with existing debts from divorce and unexpected car repairs. She is uncertain whether to proceed with buying a new house or continue renting due to tight budgeting constraints.

Discussion:
Ramsey advises Lelena to prioritize selling her current home before purchasing a new one to avoid overlapping mortgage payments. He emphasizes the importance of renting during the transition period to maintain financial stability and prevent accumulating further debt. Additionally, Ramsey suggests fixing the car affordably instead of taking on more debt.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey [35:15]: "You just need to be able to rent in between."
• Dave Ramsey [40:33]: "You're going to have to stay in your house until it sells."

Timestamp Highlights:

• [32:49] Lelana explains her relocation and debt predicament.
• [35:25] Ramsey advises renting until the current house is sold.
• [40:33] Discussion on affordable car repairs versus new car loans.

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Caller 5: Gina from Chicago – Overcoming Debt and Financial Recovery

Issue:
Gina shares her journey from accumulating debt due to emotional decisions and mental health challenges to selling her house and paying off debts. She now seeks guidance on maintaining her financial stability after overcoming significant financial hardships.

Discussion:
Ramsey acknowledges the emotional toll of Gina’s experiences and emphasizes the importance of disciplined budgeting and gradual financial recovery. He encourages her to continue focusing on eliminating debts and building a solid financial foundation without falling back into previous patterns of emotional spending.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey [49:29]: "It's called a sacrifice. Live on beans and rice."
• Dave Ramsey [72:09]: "You're deeply in debt. First, we have to put the things that are in the past in the past."

Timestamp Highlights:

• [44:34] Gina recounts her financial struggles and recovery.
• [50:18] Ramsey advises a structured, phased approach to debt elimination.

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Caller 6: Maya from Switzerland – Inheritance and Financial Planning

Issue:
Maya, living overseas, is set to inherit two homes from her parents. She is unsure whether to continue saving for a down payment on a new home or focus on investing, given her pending inheritance.

Discussion:
Ramsey reassures Maya that her current strategy aligns with financial prudence. He explains that saving for a home does not preclude her from continuing to invest and that her inheritance will further bolster her financial plans. Ramsey highlights the flexibility of her situation, allowing her to adjust her goals as her financial landscape evolves.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey [88:27]: "And you can liquidate the two houses in some of your investments to buy a home that you want someday."
• Dave Ramsey [93:00]: "But when you put money into an investment... it's not messing up your baby steps."

Timestamp Highlights:

• [86:14] Maya introduces her situation regarding inheritance and saving.
• [88:41] Ramsey discusses the benefits of liquidating real estate assets for future purchases.

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Caller 7: Quinn from Dallas – Tackling Credit Card Debt

Issue:
Quinn is burdened with $20,000 in credit card debt spread across two nearly maxed-out cards. With a combined monthly income of $4,700, including VA disability benefits, Quinn seeks a strategy to eliminate the debt and start saving for a home.

Discussion:
Ramsey advises Quinn to adopt an aggressive debt repayment plan by eliminating unnecessary expenses and allocating as much as possible toward paying off the debt. He recommends targeting the smallest debt first to gain momentum, then applying freed-up funds to the next debt. Additionally, Ramsey discourages balance transfers, emphasizing debt elimination over temporary fixes.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey [119:03]: "You're deeply in debt. First, we have to put the things that are in the past in the past."
• Dave Ramsey [123:52]: "This is not abuse... it's just stupidity and not... put your hand to the plow."

Timestamp Highlights:

• [117:56] Quinn explains his debt situation.
• [121:31] Ramsey outlines a step-by-step debt elimination strategy.

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Caller 8: Taylor from Fresno – Balancing Travel with Savings Goals

Issue:
Taylor is contemplating a $7,000 trip to Italy while saving for a house and a car. She worries that this expenditure might delay her financial goals, specifically saving for a down payment.

Discussion:
Ramsey encourages Taylor to evaluate the opportunity cost and intentionality behind her decision. He highlights that taking a planned vacation, while slightly delaying her savings, is acceptable if it aligns with her current financial stability. Ramsey emphasizes the importance of balance and purpose-driven financial choices, assuring her that her savings plan remains robust even with the trip.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey [107:43]: "If you spend all your money on... travel, it's kind of a math thing."
• Dave Ramsey [111:15]: "But you're intentionally doing it and you're thinking about it."

Timestamp Highlights:

• [106:29] Taylor asks about balancing a vacation with savings.
• [111:27] Ramsey affirms the acceptability of the trip within her financial plan.

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Conclusion

Throughout the episode, Dave Ramsey and George Camel Ramsey provide practical advice tailored to each caller's unique financial challenges. The overarching theme reinforces the importance of disciplined budgeting, strategic debt repayment, setting clear financial boundaries, and making intentional financial decisions to achieve long-term financial stability and wealth building.

Key Takeaways:

• Set Firm Boundaries: Especially when dealing with family financial matters to maintain autonomy.
• Prioritize Debt Elimination: Tackle smaller debts first to build momentum.
• Be Intentional with Spending: Weigh the opportunity costs of discretionary spending against long-term financial goals.
• Maintain Financial Flexibility: Adapt financial plans based on evolving circumstances, such as inheritance or career changes.
• Avoid Speculative Investments: Steer clear of high-risk investments like cryptocurrencies unless they fit within a disciplined financial strategy.

Notable Concepts:

• Trade-Offs in Financial Decisions: Understanding the balance between immediate desires and long-term financial goals.
• Importance of Joint Financial Planning: Especially in marriages, to ensure both partners are aligned in their financial objectives and strategies.

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For more detailed advice and resources, listeners are encouraged to visit www.ramseysolutions.com.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, George Camel Ramsey, personal personality, number one best selling author, host of the George Campbell show and co host of Smart Money Happy Hour. He does a lot. He's also co hosting for me today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. Amy is in San Francisco. Hi, Amy, how are you?

[George Camel]

Hi. I'm doing good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[George Camel]

Okay, so my husband and I recently just got married and my grandma and aunt couldn't be at the wedding, but they wanted to send us a large monetary gift. But my husband and I, we both agree that we don't want to receive that gift. However, my mom says it's disrespectful to not take it because it's like a cultural tradition. And so she went ahead and talked to my grandma and basically she told my grandma that she'll take the money. Like my grandma can just transfer it to her and then she'll transfer it to me.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, we don't have any cultural traditions at our house that we are. That we get money from a wrench aunt. So this is a new one on me. Explain to me what the cultural tradition is. I'm confused.

[George Camel]

It's like a pretty popular thing in Asian culture. When your relatives get married, instead of gifting them an actual gift, you give them money instead.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so she's getting ready to give you a bunch of money. Are there strings attached to it?

[George Camel]

That's why we're afraid to receive the. Receive the gift. Because when it comes to, like money with my extended family, it feels like there's always.

[Caller]

Has this happened before?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, it's brand new. They just got married.

[Caller]

But I mean, the context of I get money and there's strings attached, sounds like you have some serious hesitations because.

[Dave Ramsey]

Generally if somebody wants me to send money, I'll take it. I'm still a little confused here.

[George Camel]

Yeah, it just feels like, like in the past when my grandma has sent money to my parents, it felt like there were strings attached because my grandma's always been very opinionated and involved in our family decisions and I just don't want that for my new marriage.

[Dave Ramsey]

So let me ask you this. If you accepted the gift, the gift didn't come with any stated Strings, they're just implied by. Part of the tradition is an interfering mother in law. Right. And so including yours, by the way. Oh my God. I'll take the money and hold it for her. Yeah, right. Yeah. That was very big of you. So, I mean, there's no stated thing like if you take this money, we expect you to do X. It's just you're afraid they're going to think they have the right to walk in to your house anytime they want and wag their finger at you.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what if you took the money and then when they tried that you just said you can't do that, then they would be mad. Yeah, but they're gonna be mad anyway.

[Caller]

And they're probably gonna interfere anyway whether there's money involved or not. They probably still think they have an opinion.

[George Camel]

Yeah, that's true. But I feel like it's easier to say no to them when there's no money involved.

[Caller]

You just won't feel guilty.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're gonna feel guilty anyway. Guilt trips are part of your family or a travel agent for them.

[Caller]

How much money are we talking, by the way?

[George Camel]

It's supposed to be around 100, $250,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your husband say?

[George Camel]

He doesn't think we should take it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, then just don't take it. That's fine.

[George Camel]

Okay, now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so we're not going to take it. And then you understand though that when you say no, thank you, that there is no pleasant enough way to say that, to tell people who think they have the right to walk into your life and tell you what to do that they're still not going to accept that. You know that, right?

[George Camel]

Yeah. Yeah. Because I did tell my grandma no. And she went around, she's like, oh, I already have an agreement with your mom and we'll just talk about it when she comes to visit me in person.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's fine. That's fine. You can talk to mom if you want. But mom doesn't make my decisions. I'm married. Me and my husband make my decisions and we're not going to take it. And we love you anyway. And anyway, none of you are going to come over here inside this house and tell us what to do. At the time we took that vow of for richer, for poorer, in sickness and health. That means the rest of you don't get a vote anymore. We love you and we respect you, but we don't have to take. You don't get a vote anymore. So your votes are done. Ballot box is closed. And you can be nicer than that. But you're gonna have to deliver that message like 46 times because your family is screwed up on this subject, regardless of taking the gift or not. You got that right?

[George Camel]

Yeah. Yeah, that's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Like, I've done this before. Okay? So it's okay. Get Dr. Henry Cloud's book Boundaries, because when you read it, one of the first chapters is going to tell you, you're not crazy. You're not. And that's good. And that this is wrong. And it's not a cultural thing. It's an interference thing. Okay. You live in San Francisco. The guy you married doesn't come from the culture that you're discussing. So the two of you get to establish a new culture, a new household, and say, we're going to respect and love our elders and be kind to them, but they don't get a vote anymore, regardless of taking the gift or not. Yeah, there's no workaround for them. And once they realize that, you have to know they're going to be pissed.

[George Camel]

Yeah, that's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because boundary people that don't respect boundaries, as soon as they realize there is actually a boundary, it pisses them off.

[Caller]

There will be a tantrum 100% of the time.

[George Camel]

But also, like, another problem is that I. I think my grandma still thinks that I will get the money. Whereas my mom, she's.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't care who gets the money. You don't want it. Give it to whoever. Tell them to give it to your brother. Give it to your sister. I don't care. You don't want it. Who do you care? Why do you care who it goes to?

[George Camel]

Well, I mean, because I don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not your job anymore. You denied the gift. If she gives it to your mom, that's between her and your mom.

[George Camel]

Yeah, but she. But my grandma thinks she's giving me.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but that's your grandma's problem, not yours.

[Caller]

And between your mom and your grandma, because your mom now lied to grandma. If the money never ended up in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your hands for whatever, it's not gonna end up in your hands. Cause you're not gonna take it.

[Caller]

I hope so. If mom is saying, oh, I'll get it to her, well, now your mom's lying to her.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can't run around over there and make these people behave. All you can do is keep them out of your living room. Yeah, that's it. And then they're gonna be pissed. So just be ready, kiddo. That's how it works. Dr. Henry Cloud. The book is Boundaries. You can be kind, you can be gentle, you can be firm, you can be courageous in the language you use, folks. But when you set a boundary with people that don't respect boundaries, whether it's a toxic boss, a crazy boyfriend, a mother in law that won't quit giving you recipes that her little boy loves and you've been married 32 freaking years and he's that one.

[Caller]

Sounds personal.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. No, that didn't happen. No, that didn't happen. I might have given my wife my mother's recipe, but my mother didn't do it, so. No, I'm kidding.

[Caller]

Sharon's a great cook. She's got no problem in that arena.

[Dave Ramsey]

I told her yesterday she's got. You know you have the Michelin stars. Oh, yeah. So we had a good country meal last night. I told her she ate. It's a two star cracker barrel. It's a two star crackers barrel recipe.

[Caller]

I didn't know Dave could bestow a Michelin star upon you.

[Dave Ramsey]

I can't.

[Caller]

He's got that guy.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I can give you a Cracker Barrel star.

[Caller]

That counts for that because I just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Made it up because it doesn't exist. So it might now. Yeah.

[Caller]

Cracker Barrel is going to be reaching out.

[Dave Ramsey]

It was not a chef's tasting menu. It was a lot of grub on the plate.

[Caller]

It's only just one good course.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just telling you how it works. The Ramsey's.

[Caller]

Okay, well, lesson learned here is if it steals your piece, it's too expensive. That's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's the one liner.

[Caller]

150 grand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just drop. Just drop the drop the drop the old Instagram quote right there. Boom.

[Caller]

I tweeted, but I don't think those exist anymore.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nobody. Nobody reading that. There's only one person tweeting and he owns it. Yeah, it's not royal. Yeah, that's true. That's true. I can't remember who owns it now. Right. Doesn't matter anymore. This is the Ramsey Show. Let's be honest. Shopping for health insurance can be confusing with high costs, complicated terms and customer service that doesn't really serve you. Most folks just pick a plan and hope for the best. See, insurance companies don't work for you. They work for themselves. Meaning they love it when you overpay. So you need a guide on your team to help you make the best choices. Health Trust Financial works for you. They're not salespeople. They help you find the health insurance option that makes sense and saves you money. The fact is Health insurance is one of the biggest expenses in your budget. But most people who work with Health Trust Financial end up saving $500 a month. Imagine putting that kind of money toward the baby steps. My team has worked with them for over 20 years and they've served thousands of people just like you. They're the only health insurance broker that's Ramsey trusted to help you. So stop throwing money away and get the health insurance that's right for [e-mail] that's Health Trust financial.com Denise is with us in New York City. City. Hi, Denise. How are you?

[George Camel]

I'm doing good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can we help?

[George Camel]

So I'm entering grad school and I'm looking at $200,000 worth of student debt. I haven't started yet. I just wanted to maybe pick your brain on like a plan on how to tackle it, like some guidance that you can give me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. So you're fairly new to this program, aren't you?

[George Camel]

Yeah, sort of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. Because you, if you weren't, you would know that I'm going to break your heart and tell you not to do this. That's the way you, where you get out of the $200,000 worth of this. Don't get in it. So. But let's talk about. Let's talk about it, man. I don't want to just be a dream killer. I'd rather kill only nightmares, which is signing up for. What are you studying, pray tell.

[George Camel]

So I'm entering into interior design. It's the top program in New York City at Pratt Institute. And a year it's about 60. It's 57 to 60 thousand dollars. And it's roughly about a three year program.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you'll have a. I'm not familiar with Pratt. I'm sorry I'm ignorant, but that you're. You're telling me that's a university and you will have a master's degree in interior design from that university?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is not a. An industry certified certification of some kind. It's a simple. It's a true master's degree in academic sense.

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And you have your undergraduate in what?

[George Camel]

I have it in English.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And you're planning on becoming a world class interior designer that makes more money than doctors and lawyers in order to pay this kind of money back. Right. I'm sorry.

[George Camel]

Yes, I would hope.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. That would be the only reason that you would spend $200,000. Unless you're an idiot. Right. You'd have to have some thought that you were going to make a lot of money, right?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

I assume you think you're going to make a lot of money. Maybe I'm making an assumption. Is that wrong? Do you think you're going to make a lot of money or you just think this is worth it for the art?

[George Camel]

I know that I will.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't, but because I know a lot of people that graduated from there that didn't. I know a lot of people that have master, have MDs that don't make a lot of money. I know a lot of people that are lawyers that are broke and they went $200,000 in debt knowing they were going to make a lot of money. So your best laid plans of mice and men are a problem for you English majors.

[Caller]

Have you looked into all of the options for a grad program for interior design?

[George Camel]

I did. This is the only one that I actually have a job at the same time and, you know, pay it off while I'm going.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what are you getting paid at the job at the same time?

[George Camel]

I'm getting paid roughly 69 to 72 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Since I'm ignorant of the space, and I admittedly am. Okay. I'm assuming that this must be A, an exclusive school that is very highly regarded. A, it's in New York City, B, it's ridiculously freaking expensive.

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So I'm assuming this thing like, you know, you're getting a degree in the Harvard of interior design. Is that what you're telling me?

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. Because I would hope you wouldn't spend that otherwise for this. Because a normal interior designer working anywhere else in the United States other than maybe London, Paris, Tokyo or New York City, are not going to make wages enough to recoup on this kind of an expenditure. Do you understand?

[George Camel]

Of course, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because I mean, like we had professional interior designers that we paid a lot of money when we built this, you know, 600,000 square feet of commercial space we have under here. And they did not make enough to justify that kind of expense to pick the furniture that these kind people are sitting in out here. So that's not how it works out here. You know, working for an architectural firm in Dallas, Texas, or Nashville or Chicago, you're going to be in New York working for extremely high clients. And so you're asking to join the NFL, you're asking to join the NBA. You're going to have to be the best of the best to justify this. And if you were My daughter, I would tell you not to do this.

[George Camel]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not sure I would do it if you had the 200,000 in your pocket. But I'm positive I'm not going to talk you out of it. But what I do want to do is I want to leave you with some doubts and I want you to rethink this and be sure, because 100% of the time our plans don't work out exactly the way we thought they would. Sometimes they work out better, sometimes they work out worse. But when you take on a $200,000 loan from an exclusive, anything that you expect to be in the top 1 or 2% in the world of income earners as a result, to justify the expense, that is a low probability play. It's like saying, I'm going to move to Los Angeles and wait tables until I become Tom Cruise. It does happen, but it's a low probability play. And so I would tell you, don't spend $200,000 to become an actor and go wait tables in LA until you get your star found. And so this is a, It's a hard. This is a, you know, there's not a whole bunch of people coming out of that school that are making a half million dollars a year, kiddo. And you're going to have to make that to justify this expenditure and to pay it back. And I wish you would rethink how. What it is that is asking you what it is inside of you that you're trying to scratch, what it. You're trying to scratch what it is you're wanting to be when you grow up, so to speak. And is there another way to go do this?

[Caller]

I'm looking at just some research online and there's tons of options out there. And there's a lot of people even saying, hey, this is the most expensive school possible for this field.

[Dave Ramsey]

It may be the best, though. It may be the Harvard and there.

[Caller]

Might be some networking there that gets you in the door and there's some pieces of that, but I still don't think it's worth four times the cost when you can do that on your own and get the degree cheaper elsewhere.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I mean, I know interior designers around the nation that make, you know, three, four and own interior design companies that make half a million dollars a year. Some of them make more if they've got a company running, you know, that kind of a thing. But they also learn business skills in the process. And they're not doing that based on where they went to school. They're obviously very good at their craft, but they've also learned to apply it in a way. So it just. It's very, very scary when you think you've got a guarant. Anytime someone says, if I go get this degree at this place, I've got a guarantee, I'm 100% sure they're wrong because it doesn't. Doesn't work out that way. I'll give you an example. We know after doing all the student loan research this aside from Denise's situation, but that people that say where I go to school matters. If I go to such and such a school, it has a good name. That's going to get me a job. And we know from the research is that's completely false. When you go to the oncologist and they say you have cancer, you don't really ask where they went to school. You want to know, do you know how to fix cancer? That's all you want to know. And literally where you went to school may or may not tell you that. Are you a good doctor? You know, I haven't. I don't know where my dentist went to school. And he paid a lot of money to become a dentist, but where he went to school did not achieve me as a client. You know, where you go to school matters as little as anything on the planet. 99.99% of the time. Here's another thing, okay? If you go to a good school, you get the big jobs. Bull crap. 78% of the Fortune 500 of the top s and p. 578%. 8 out of 10 of the CEOs operating the largest companies in America went to state schools. They did not go to mit. They did not go to Princeton. They did not go to Harvard. 78% operating Home Depot, operating name brands that you hear that are on the stock market. The biggest companies in America did not go to prestigious schools. They went to state schools. So I call B, I call BS every time somebody starts this crap with me. And I don't know enough about her space to be mean about it, but I do want her to rethink it.

[Caller]

There's definitely other options out there. She's got to do some homework, do some research, and slow down.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller]

Today's question comes from Chris in Florida. He says you used to be hardline against crypto, but in the last couple of months you've said that if you want to spend your fun money on crypto, go ahead, but it's speculation. Have you softened your stance on crypto? What would it take for you to see crypto as legitimate as any other currency? As as legitimate, Dave, have you gone soft on us?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, let's start with the basics, okay? There is no currency, regardless of how legitimate that is a valid investment. You should not buy the Chinese yen as an investment because your golfing buddy said it was a good idea or some idiot on TikTok. You should not buy the US dollar or the euro and speculate on currency values. That's what Bitcoin is. If it's having a good day, that's what Bitcoin is, okay? It is not a place to invest. If you want to speculate in commodities like gold or silver or wheat futures or whatever future, that's what currency is. You're speculating, you're gambling, then that's up to you. But don't call it an investment. And know I haven't gone soft. Anyone who does that, I think, is wasting money speculating in commodities. I do zero of gambling in Las Vegas, I do zero of. My daughter Rachel, on the other hand, has been known to be at the craps table in Vegas. But she thinks that's fun. I don't think this is fun. I don't understand it. I don't think it's fun. I've got a buddy of mine put, you know, he put $10,000 and he's worth about 40 billion or something. I don't know what he's worth a bazillion dollars. He put like, $10,000 into crypto just so he could make. Because he knew it would get a rise out of me. And I'm like, you're an idiot. You just put $10,000 on red and spun the wheel.

[Caller]

But he got the joy of getting a rise out of you.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it's worth ten grand to him, apparently, yeah. He wanted me to call him an idiot, and I did. So he goes, I got more money than you. I know you do, but you're still an idiot. You just wasted 10,000. Yeah.

[Caller]

Dave would call you an idiot for free. You don't need to drop ten grand.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would have done it for talking about it. But you don't even have to really lose the money to do it. But if that brings you joy and you want to speculate, you want to gamble with some of your money, a small portion of it, then do it. But that doesn't change the fact that I don't think it's smart. So I don't know.

[Caller]

That's always been your stance. I think as it comes up more, we always go, hey, we're not mad at it. We're not going to yell at you for doing it. But realize what you're doing is speculating, and don't make it a big portion of your world or your net worth or your investment strategy.

[Dave Ramsey]

The problem comes in when you substitute the word investors. That tells me you put a large portion of your life into this and you're getting ready to screw up your whole freaking life because you're an idiot. That's where your problem comes in. Okay? So, no, I haven't softened on that at all. Now, what was it take for me to call Bitcoin a legitimate currency? It needs a longer track record that is stable. Okay, let's go to an example. Okay? I have some money on my shelf that a friend of mine that Special Forces brought back to me that has the picture of Saddam Hussein on was Iraqi money in the former regime that we went in and took out. Special Forces guy cleans out a room, there's a bunch of stacks of money that's basically worthless colored paper now, right? Because that regime is gone now. There's a whole new government in Iraq. Right? There is a currency in Iraq today. I don't even know what it's called. The chances of me telling you to put money in an unstable new unproven currency in Iraq is zero because you're Putting money in an unpredictable environment that has no track record. That's dumb. That's bitcoin. Okay? It's only. Bitcoin is cool.

[Caller]

Well, it just has better marketing. It's hype has really worked well.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's cool. And it's what we talk about on TikTok. They don't talk about Iraqi dinar on TikTok. Right. Or whatever it's called. That's what the old one was called. They probably call them.

[Caller]

You're right. It's still that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So anyway, yeah, it's the. The. The non Saddam Hussein Iraqi dinar. Right. And so I've got some confederate money that. From the states of the south during the civil War, worthless. So if a new country pops up somewhere and they have a new currency, it's the same thing as bitcoin. It doesn't make it cool because it doesn't make it more stable or more palatable or a better investment because it's technology based. And because you think people can spell blockchain and actually describe what a blockchain is, which is an interesting concept. But until it stabilizes and it ain't stable, boys and girls, it's like riding the worst roller coaster that went off the rails at Six Flags. The one that's on the news where you were left hanging upside down at Six Flags. That one. Right. You know, and your mother's throwing up and all that. Right, That's. That's the one we're talking about here.

[Caller]

This is not good for some people. That's fun apparently, though. I know, Use a little fun money on that.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's right. So I'm going to put a little my money on this. But, you know, chart the volatility of bitcoin and then smile at me with a serious face and tell me this is a solid. And I'll tell you you're smoking crack. Okay. Because it's not. It's all over the freaking. So when it stabilizes, I think it will. I think it's here to stay, and I think it'll be a legitimate form of transferring goods and services. Okay. At some point, I think it. I think it's here to stay. I think it's not a bad concept. It's not an investment for sure. And it's not a stable currency for sure. So, you know, no, I haven't got solved on it at all. I've actually gotten better at trashing it.

[Caller]

I mean, the longer it's been around and I feel like your stance since the beginning has been this way So I don't think you've changed your stance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, when I had the same stance when people were putting their money in Beanie Babies too. Actually had people call this show back in the day that had put their kids college money in Beanie Babies.

[Caller]

How do you like. They just took the money, bought Beanie Babies.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, Beanie Babies were quite the rage.

[Caller]

And thinking, well, it'll go up in value.

[Dave Ramsey]

You couldn't get the Princess Di Beanie Baby.

[Caller]

Oh, that's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's on ebay right now for $10000. But it's never sold for $10000.

[Caller]

But it's listed for 10,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

My dog came through the house the other day with one of them in its mouth, but none of them have ever produced any value. So it was a fad, it was a thing. Everybody got wild about it. Cabbage Patch Kids, whatever you want to go to next. Whatever you want. What are people gonna line up at Walmart for next year at Christmas? Right. And so that's what we're dealing with. That's the thing.

[Caller]

So you're hoping the next person is willing to pay more than I paid. That's not an investment.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a commodity. That's a commodity. And the commodities go up or down based on shortage or oversupply. And shortage or oversupply is caused by greed or fear. So what you're doing is you have too many people chasing too few goods. Drives the price up. Basic supply demand curve from seventh grade econ. And so, you know, if you have a lot of. If you have a lot of supply and not enough people chasing it, price goes down. It's called a glut in the market. Right. It's too available. Nobody cares anymore. There's no scarcity. When the Beanie Babies were going through the roof and people were paying $1,000 for a princess die, buying it off each other on the bet that it was going to go on up is because they actually thought it was going to go on up. It was shortage of shortage and scarcity.

[Caller]

Toilet paper during COVID Remember that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

People were selling that stuff on ebay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Plexiglass. Don't you remember the time you wish you were in the plexiglass business? I wish I was in the mask business and the plexiglass business at one point. Yeah. Oh, and hand sanitizer.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That was the other one.

[Caller]

They were making it out of like vodka. They were just anything you could make hand sanitizer out of, you could sell a jug of that thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's hillbillies are drinking it.

[Caller]

I'm just saying the hillbillies made out good selling their bathtub hand sanitizer.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, we have not gone soft on it. We've, you know, what we're trying to do, honestly, is we're trying to teach you to talk about it differently so you realize what it is to quit saying it's an investment. Start calling it speculation. And if you're going to speculate on anything, it needs to be with fun money because that means you're gambling. If you're day trading in stocks, what's the percentage of people make money in day trading in stocks?

[Caller]

Very few. A few percentage points.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like 2?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Over.

[Caller]

I think over 100 days, only 3% actually come out. Out profit. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Profitable.

[Caller]

97. Lose money if they keep up for 100 days or more.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's actual research, not tick tock. Okay, So, I mean, if you're getting your own financial advice from Tic Tac, you got a problem. This is the Ramsay Show. Foreign.

[Denise]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Lelena is with us in Denver. Hi, Lalana. How are you? Well, I have to push the button there it is. I'm a little off. What's up, Lalaina? How can we help?

[George Camel]

First off, I want to thank you. I started FPU back in 2011 and it's been a game changer with that. I've had some fluctuations. Right now I'm looking to relocate to Denver. I'm in California right now and it's coming down to the wire and I feel like everything is not necessarily falling apart, but it's definitely a storm coming in. I looking to buy a house, but now I'm teetering on whether I should just rent in this new state for a while. I got my pre approval. I do have some debt that I've incurred over the past couple years from divorce and now the transmission is going on my car and it's ten grand and I need to get another car. And that will affect. Oh, I'm guessing it will affect my pre approval of my loan since I'm kind of running on a tight budget as it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're talking about you're going into debt to get another car?

[George Camel]

What's that?

[Dave Ramsey]

You mean you're going into debt to get another car?

[George Camel]

Well, I have some debt from my divorce.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I said it won't affect your. It won't affect your pre approval unless you go into debt to get a car.

[George Camel]

Right. So how I calculated it, if I traded my car now, blah, blah, blah, I would end up with like around a 5 to 7k personal loan or an auto loan of some sort.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, that will affect. Yeah, your pre approval is based on your current debt level and that your pre approvals no longer pre approved. So you are screwing that up.

[Caller]

How much money do you have?

[Dave Ramsey]

But if you don't need to be buying a house anyway because you're in.

[George Camel]

Debt, well, okay, so here's the thing. I'm selling my current house so that will give me the cash that I need to move forward.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wait a minute, what does move forward mean?

[George Camel]

Well, I will have the money to pay off my debt and also put down on the house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And pay for the moving expenses and all that kind of stuff. So I've had the cash.

[Dave Ramsey]

When is the. Is the house sold?

[George Camel]

No, it's going to be listed here in a couple days. So I feel like my little whirlwind is whirlwinding and then.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, let me stop. I want to make sure. I want to make sure I've got the logistics of what you're doing. You're moving from where to where?

[George Camel]

Moving from California to Colorado to Denver.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And the House in California is getting ready to be listed.

[George Camel]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're pre approved, not counting your new car loan to move to Denver. But you're not going to need a new car loan because your house is going to be sold.

[George Camel]

Right, but I do need a new car, like in the next couple weeks. Not a new new car, but a different car.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you have no money.

[George Camel]

Well, the only money that I have is the money that I was going to move with.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, you're going to move and buy a second house before your house in California sold?

[George Camel]

Well, it's kind of like that. You know, you sell your house and then you put the down and then the contingencies and blah, blah, blah, that kind of thing. This is my.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not how it works. It's not. There's no blah, blah, blah. That doesn't work that way. So what happens is you sell the house in California and you have the money in your hand and then you blah, blah, blah and buy a house.

[George Camel]

And then where do I stay in the meantime?

[Dave Ramsey]

You rent.

[George Camel]

My two children.

[Dave Ramsey]

You rent.

[George Camel]

So renting. So then that's the answer that I need. Renting is probably the way, the only.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way you can do it. Otherwise you're going to end up with two house payments. You can't close on the new house until your cells. And until you close on the new house, you don't have a place to live.

[George Camel]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So just kind of stay in your house. Can you wait to move?

[George Camel]

Well, I don't really have anywhere in between to stay. Like I can.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, what, can you stay in California? You got a new job or something in Denver?

[George Camel]

No, I. This is kind of my opportunity to get out of California. I've been wanting to do it for quite some time that you misunderstood.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you working in California right now?

[George Camel]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

You quit work from home?

[George Camel]

Technically you work well and I teach homeschool class.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you have a job at. In California. Why don't you just stay there till your house sells?

[George Camel]

And stay where?

[Dave Ramsey]

Paper in the house you live in, kid.

[George Camel]

That I'm selling.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's not sold yet. Why don't you live there until it sells?

[George Camel]

Oh yeah, definitely. So that's like my month. I have like a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

We don't know.

[Caller]

Weaker. Seven weeks, nine weeks, ten weeks. We don't know. But you live in there until the house closes and you have to leave. And at that point you'll have money.

[Dave Ramsey]

In your hand, you will be debt free and you will purchase a home in Denver.

[George Camel]

And then so I will Be having to rent for a couple months.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, honey, you're going to stay in California in the house you live in until it sells. When it sells, you will leave with a check in your hand and move to Denver having bought a house in Denver. But you don't need to go buy a house until your house sells.

[George Camel]

Sam, I guess I'm kind of gray on that whole transition because if I sell here and have to move out and I don't have another place.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, okay, let's pretend you get a contract on it tomorrow, okay? The contract's gonna say that the people have to get a loan and it's gonna take about 30 days. You run over to Denver and you put a house under contract. Then contingent upon your house closing, George sold his house the other day. It closes on the 16th. His new home that he and Whitney are moving into closes on the 18th.

[Caller]

And we have occupancy in the contract.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they're gonna move from one house to the other. He put his house on the market, but did not sell it out from under himself until he had the. And he didn't close on the other one until he had this one done.

[George Camel]

Right, the contingencies.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. The one. The contingency would be on the one you're purchasing, but it'll be a very short one.

[George Camel]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And really fast because you're always going to have a contract on your house. It's only contingent upon not your house selling, but it closing because you've already sold it at the point we're discussing here.

[George Camel]

Right. Until I get that money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So if you get a contract today that says you're going to close one month from today, run over at Denver. Buy a house contingent upon the closing of your house one month plus a day from today. So you close on the house in California. A day later, you close on the house in Denver and you move, but not until then.

[Caller]

And a good agent will walk you through this. They'll make sure this is all in the contract and explains it all. And so I don't know if you have one yet, but you need one to help explain all of this simply so that you're not making any mistakes.

[Dave Ramsey]

There is no whirlwind here, and there is no blah, blah, blah here. It's just lining up the dominoes and understanding how they fall. And you stay put until you get this house sold, because it might take you three or four months to sell it. And you don't need to be in Denver renting and have a house payment in California hoping It sells, you're going to become a motivated seller and you're going to end up giving the house in California away because you freaked out and took off before you were ready to go. So sit tight until your house sells. When it sells, run over at Denver and find something or run over there and rent something for six months. I don't care. But you don't need to do either one until your house sells. Sales. And yes, you've got to be debt free before you buy in Denver from the sale of your current home.

[Caller]

So the only whirlwind is this car situation. And you said you have money set aside for moving. Well, we'll take that money out later from the home sale. Right now you need that money to get you a used car. In cash.

[Dave Ramsey]

In cash and. Or fix the transmission. A cheaper way than $10,000. I just put a transmission in one of our vehicles here at the office and it was 7,000. But I didn't buy a new one. I had a rebuilt one and they quoted me 14,000 for a new one and nice car.

[Caller]

You talked them down?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I got. I didn't buy another one. I bought. I had a rebuild. It was almost half.

[Caller]

50% off. I'll take it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Almost. Yeah. Yeah.

[Caller]

Well, get connected with an agent. Jump on ramseysolutions.com agentlilena and we can get you connected with a Ramsey trusted pro who knows what they're doing, who will help make your home a blessing, not a burden, and help you get some calm in your life and walk you through the right next steps. That's what you need right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, this is the old cart before the house thing. When you buy another home before your home has sold, you turn yourself into a motivated seller and you're going to cost yourself tens of thousands of dollars in panicked price reduction to get the other payment off your back. Listen, people don't do this, okay? You move deliberately and you put the dominoes in order until you push the first domino so we don't push the second one. And otherwise you end up with a set of two payments and a highly motivated, panicked, freaked out situation. And it's not a good place. You know, you're taking the worst offers because you're desperate. No negotiating power. Yeah, I have a property on the market right now that is debt free and it'd be nice if it sold, but I don't care if it sells.

[Caller]

You're not desperate.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's the opposite. It's the opposite, opposite. So I really don't care when it sells.

[Caller]

You Want to buy this real estate?

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I just care what it gets. That's all I care. This is the Ramsay Show.

[Caller]

Hey, George Camel here. Listen, we need to talk specifically about Mama Bear legal forms. Allow me to paint you a picture. You plan a vacation, you make a budget, you book the Airbnb, you build a spreadsheet of activities because you're that person. You fire up the Maps app and boom, trip of a lifetime. So here's the question. If you plan that carefully for a one week getaway, why are you just winging it when it comes to your will? Not having a will in place is like dropping your family off at a foreign airport with no map, no translator, and no clue what happens next. So when you pass away, sure your family will be grieving, but they're also overwhelmed, stuck in court and letting the government decide what happens to everything you worked so hard for. All because you didn't leave clear instructions. So the good news is you can fix this in 20 minutes with mama Bear legal forms. I used them for my own will. And it was fast, simple, and gave me and my family peace of mind. There's no stuffy lawyer's office, no drama, just a few clicks and your family's protected. Listen, a will is too important to ignore more. It's how you love your people. Well, even after you've yeeed your last haw, as we say in the south. So go to mama bearlegalforms.com and handle this tonight. Use the promo code Ramsey and you'll save 20%. That's mamabearlegalforms.com promo code Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Camel is my co host today. He's a Ramsey personality, number one best selling author and the co host of Smart Money Happy Hour and the George Camel two big hits on the Ramsey network. Be sure and check them out. Phone Number here is 888-255-2225. Gina is with us in Chicago. Hi Gina, how are you?

[George Camel]

Hi, I'm okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

How can we help today?

[George Camel]

I'm so nervous. I'm sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's okay. We've never lost a patient. You're gonna make it.

[George Camel]

So I'm a nurse. I made a bunch of emotional decisions with my money along with dealing with mental illness between myself and my husband. During COVID I was making more money than ever during nursing. We ended up buying a home off of emotional Decisions that helped keep my stepson in district. We were having disputes about his mother moving him an hour over an hour away. So we ended up moving in his district to help keep him in his school. So we were well over our heads with the payments. Everything came to a head emotionally dealing with mental illness between me and my husband. We ended up selling our house and paying off our debt and moving into an apartment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Sounds like you all been through hell.

[George Camel]

Yeah. And so it was a two bedroom apartment with three kids and two dogs. We ended up buying a small home again. And I'm just kind of lost as to what to do next. I owe 3:18 on my house and 30,000 on a car loan that was upside down to begin with.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make?

[George Camel]

I just took on a different position to get a more stable income and to get benefits with my job and to work night shift to get an extra differential to make more money. I have two jobs currently and it's about. It'll be about 130.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your husband make?

[George Camel]

So currently he is staying at home with the kids until school starts again and then we're hopefully going to get. He's going to get a part time job.

[Dave Ramsey]

How many kids do you have?

[George Camel]

Have two of my own and a stepson. So three.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are they?

[George Camel]

Nine, 10 and 15.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. What does your husband do for a living?

[George Camel]

He's a carpenter.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. He can make enough to hire somebody to take care of the kids.

[George Camel]

I know he, we ended up. Or he ended up losing his really good job due to mental illness.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you keep bringing up mental illness. Who's struggling with mental illness?

[Amy]

Both of us.

[George Camel]

Really?

[Dave Ramsey]

In what way? In what way? What kind of, what kind of mental illness?

[George Camel]

Bipolar.

[Dave Ramsey]

Both of you have been diagnosed bipolar?

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or you've just been reading the Internet about it?

[George Camel]

No. Officially diagnosed. He had an episode that basically where he ended up leaving.

[Dave Ramsey]

He went manic and got fired Pretty much, yeah. Okay. If he's bipolar, that's a real possibility. If that's really happening. Okay. And he's not on meds. Are you guys not doing your meds? How are you working so much if you're bipolar?

[George Camel]

Where we're all on meds now. We, we've, we've dealt with that situation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So now he goes and gets a.

[George Camel]

Job again then that's preferably when.

[Caller]

Why is it part time when he goes back?

[George Camel]

I mean we just, we. I'm afraid of falling into the same situation before where it's the job didn't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cause that episode, the lack of treatment to the bipolar with bent meds and seeing the therapist caused the episode. Well, working was not the problem.

[George Camel]

It was a little bit of both, though. I mean, it's. It between both of us working long hours. We both work 12 hour shifts, and then it was like we had somebody else raising our children.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's different than what you're talking about, though. I didn't suggest 12 hour shifts. I just said get a job. Yeah, that's different than 12 hour shifts. I'm not existing. I'm not suggesting exhausting yourself. You got to get rid of the $30,000 car payment and you guys got to get where you can breathe again.

[George Camel]

Okay, the thing about the $30,000 car payment, I've been. Okay, so I don't know if we. We have no money to buy another car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, you don't have any money to buy another car because you keep doing dumb car deals. You're drowning. What do you have? A $900 car payment?

[George Camel]

We refinanced in 575.

[Dave Ramsey]

45 for eight years. Okay, that's hopeful. Not. Okay, so here's the thing. What you guys have got to do is you. We have to put the things that are in the past in the past and learn from. Learn from them. And so what we learn from this conversation is when we make emotional financial decisions. You brought that up four times. We make bad ones.

[George Camel]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what we have to do is we have to put together cold and calculated logical decisions called wisdom and execute on those gradually and steadily while gradually and steadily working and making money. And the gradual steady income, not 12 hours a day, not 18 hours a day, but the gradual steady income cleans up the mess and puts the mess of the past behind you.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I mean, that was half the problem is that I had had a job I basically took during COVID A.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you had a. You probably were killing it, but you're also killing you work hours wise.

[George Camel]

Yeah, but it was non benefited to get the extra hourly pay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't care what the non benefit it is if you're making 250k as a nurse. Okay. And we had travel nurses during COVID making that. So I don't give a crap if you got benefits or not. If you're making a quarter million dollars a year. So that's behind us though. There's not Covid right now. We don't have a problem with that. Today you're a nurse. You're very employable. You get to pick and choose what you do. You've picked because you wanted some benefits. Good. Probably need some benefits to keep both of your all's medications going properly. Agreed.

[George Camel]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so I think that was a wise move. But let's steadily, carefully, not based on the past, but based on the lessons of the past. The lessons of the past are when he's off his meds and he goes off on his boss because he's manic, he gets fired. Well, duh. That happens to anybody that's bipolar. Okay. That doesn't make him a bad guy, but that doesn't mean it's a pattern that has to be repeated either. What was the key thing there? He was off his meds. And so you do your meds, you do the proper staging on that. And if you get that dialed in, in the bipolar world, you can be very, very functional. We know that. Dr. John Deloney has taught us that, and we've watched it in financial coaching for years. Because bipolar really does struggle with money issues. Because when you go manic, you make emotional financial decisions. That's your definition of it. And they're always bad ones.

[George Camel]

Insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

[Denise]

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a gut punch. And.

[Denise]

Oh, you're telling me. And for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me too.

[Denise]

They don't know what to do next.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me too. I mean, you're gonna have a crisis here and, you know, you got two options. While you're sitting and talking to a young widow, she's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

[Denise]

That's exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

These are the two options. And take care of your dadgum family, man.

[Denise]

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses. So your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Denise]

To just miss you.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance, Jeff, Zander and The team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Xander.com or call 83542 82. Mike's in Charleston, South Carolina. Hey, Mike. What's up? Hey.

[Amy]

How you doing, Dave? Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Amy]

I kind of got a pension question.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Amy]

My company offers pension of safe $3200 a month. And the survivorship for my wife would be $2,400 a month. And no question, she outlives me. I'm 58. I'm desperate.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is she plotting your death or do we know? No, but you know what?

[Amy]

He knows. She knows she's gonna outlive me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Amy]

She said.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sharon keeps telling me this, and I just ask her why she's so sure, but that's what bothers me. So I'm just saying. All right. Anyway.

[Caller]

Sleep with one eye open.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. Okay, so, 3200 and 2400 or lump sum of how much?

[Caller]

Half a million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Lump sum? Yep. Take the lump sum, roll it to an IRA in good growth stock mutual funds. Now, let me tell you, there's two reasons why. And you'll find this out as you crunch the numbers. And I'm going to ask you to go do a formal answer with a good financial person. I'm going to teach you how to do that. Okay? But here's the basics. Your pension calculations, by law, by regulation, have to be conservative to keep the pension from going broke. And by law, they're typically right now right around 7% rate of return. And so they calculated what your 3200 is worth based on a 7% rate of return. If you're in good mutual funds, you can earn 11 or 12 on average. That's what the stock market's average since it begins. 11.8. Okay. And so, A, you would make more for yourself today if your money was invested at a higher rate than 7%. B, when both of you die, all jokes aside, this money dies with you. If both of you die and there's a half a million dollars in a mutual fund, it doesn't die with you. It goes to your heirs. Yeah. So you make more while you're alive and more, a lot more when you're dead. So you take it. But that's. And those are going to be the reasons. So if you made 10% on $500,000, that would be $50,000 a year. You follow me? Yep. Yep. That's about 4200amonth without touching the 500. Okay. That's better than 3400. Better than 2400, by the way. That survives both of you.

[Amy]

Okay, I can roll that into my 401. No, no, you can't be a separate.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I wouldn't do that. I would roll it into an ira. There's no taxes on it if you do that. And it can sit there and grow tax free now rather than take a three minute answer on a podcast. I want. But that's how it works. That's the concept. It's a pretty simple concept. More more while you're alive, more when you die if you take the lump sum. And almost 99% of time works way because of the way the pension is required to do the calculation. By law, it's an unfair thing. They can't really compete against this. And that's why there's very few pensions left anymore because they suck. And so Anyway, go to ramseysolutions.com and click on Smartvestor Pros. There'll be several in your area. I know a couple of them in Charleston, by the way, and they've been with me for years. They don't work for me, but I recommend them as people to sit down with and talk, talk to about this and let them unpack for you the two things we just talked about that you'll make more with it invested rolled over into an IRA and good mutual funds. And how old are you guys, by the way?458.

[Amy]

I like to retire at 62.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, you got, you got to be 59 and a half for the, to start pulling on this money. And you know, so you got nothing until 59 and a half because you got to leave it in there. Okay. Rolling it to a. Without penalty anyway. Rolling it into an ira. But I would roll it to an IR and get with our Smartvestor pros in the area and let them sit down. A good thing about a Smartvestor Pro, Mike, is they're going to have the heart of a teacher and you're going to have them talk to you like I just did. But they're going to give you a lot more time and care than I just did.

[Caller]

Yeah. And I crunched the numbers just for fun and I guess generously that he's going to live to at least 85. And you're right in that the lump sum wins in every case here. I mean, you look at a 10% return, he would still have the same withdrawal over that time. Same, you know, that he's going to withdraw that million bucks over that 27 years and still have 1.4 million left over to hand over to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, so if he only took the 3200. Is the number 38?

[Caller]

Yeah, 38 grand a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Instead of taking all of the. At what rate return?

[Caller]

That's a 10%.

[Dave Ramsey]

10%.

[Caller]

And even at 8%, he still has an extra 700 grand sitting that account if he died at 85. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you just take off your amount, not the survivorship of the wife, but the 3200 is what George ran.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's an interesting calculation. So apples to apples on the monthly, only we don't have to reduce it to survive the wife.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And. And then let the. Let them. Let the money grow, and It'll grow to 1.2.

[Caller]

Yeah, 1.4 at 10%. About 700,000 at 8%. We're gonna go.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how old has it got to be for that to happen?

[Caller]

85. So just live to 85 if you can. That'd be great. Yeah, that'll really help our numbers.

[Dave Ramsey]

That'll help us work out our math here.

[Caller]

Really helps our math. And I do hope he lives even longer than that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, I don't know what his wife's got planned, but, yeah, that's.

[Caller]

Barring any other situation.

[Dave Ramsey]

And by the way, folks, here's the thing. You and George, average death age is 76. Yes, it is, darling. It's 76 for males now and 78 for females. Now, it's not 85, but when you live to 60, average death age is 90. Okay, so. And he's almost 60. So the average death age includes infant mortality, teenage car wrecks, and whatever. Right? So. But if you statistically want to run actual data on somebody that's my age, 65 years old, I'm healthy. The high probability I make it to 90. In today's world, 76 is not the norm.

[Caller]

And based on Dave's sheer willpower, I think we might see 100.

[Dave Ramsey]

I may still be doing the show. I'm just saying I could lose my teeth like somebody did on the streets.

[Caller]

They'll still be doing radio. Rachel has made that clear. Rachel said she might give you a fake Ramsey show, like a little mock.

[Dave Ramsey]

Show for you and make me think I'm not.

[Caller]

It makes me think you're on air once you're senile in your 90s.

[Dave Ramsey]

So Gen 2 has a plan.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I'll just put the old man out to pasture, and he doesn't even know he's there.

[Caller]

You'll never know if it made it to air or not. It might just be for funsies.

[Dave Ramsey]

If the third caller's name is still Bessie, we're talking to the cows.

[Caller]

Okay, producer James is going to schedule a lot of great calls for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

For you.

[Caller]

I have nothing to do with this Not James idea.

[Dave Ramsey]

Leave me out of this.

[Caller]

Now that's a plan only Rachel Cruz could dream up.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, let's go to Cherry in Ashland while we still have time. Cherry, what's up?

[George Camel]

Hello, Mr. Randy and Mr. George. My question is, how can my husband and I go about talking to our boss about, number one, getting away?

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay. The way you do that is you switch. Stop. Just switch shoes. If you were the boss, how would you want to be talked to about a race?

[George Camel]

I've listened to a lot of what Ken says, and I agree with him that asking for.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not talking directly into your phone. That's a bad way to ask for a raise. Hold on. You got your phone off somewhere else. We can't hear you. You can't hear us. Talk directly into it so I can hear you. Number one, if you're the boss. Yes. Much better if you're the boss. You own a company. When would you pay someone more a. If they. If they could get. If you can't replace them? If they make 50,000 and the new person you got to pay 7, that means you're underpaying what the market is and you would pay what you could replace them for. That's one time. The second reason you would give someone a raise is if they're adding great value and you want to be a blessing to them because you think they're bringing in more than they cost.

[George Camel]

Okay, so how would that apply in our particular situation? We do not. We are not employed by, like a corporate. Corporate business. We are employed by a single individual, like wealthy person, and we take care of his properties.

[Dave Ramsey]

Same exact thing. Same exact thing. Have you saved him a bunch of money taking care of his property? By getting good bids on the work that's done. Have you done a good job of managing the property so there's not problems because you're there, you're helpful. Then he wants to bless you by paying you more to keep you around. The guy that runs a lot of our properties and a lot of the maintenance programs on our property makes really dad gum good money. Money. But he's amazing, too. Right, George?

[Caller]

Yeah. There's a. There's a direct connection between the value you're bringing Every year and your pay. And if you continue to bring value, continue to show that you continue to be grateful and humble, the raises will show up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you just say, you know, if you want to get someone else to do this job, it's going to cost you more than you're paying us. A and B, we've made you a lot of money and saved you a lot of money. By the way, we did these three things. We'd love it if you'd like to consider paying us some more. What would that sound like? And you just make a good case for that.

[Caller]

My full time job is helping people make smart money decisions. But in my spare time, I'm a grill master. Okay, more of a semi amateur enthusiast, but you know what makes me get one step closer to pro level level shopping? At Aldi the other day, I threw some simply nature organic chicken on the grill and ended up with a meal so good that even my picky toddler asked for seconds. Aldi has become my first stop for groceries because they've got it all, from USDA choice beef to fresh organic produce. Everything you need to pull off a gourmet dinner without busting your grocery budget. So stop paying more and just shop at Aldi where you'll save with the lowest prices of any national grocery store. Find a store near you@aldi us that's a L D I savings. Based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability and the market.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thanks for being with us, America. When tackling debt or building wealth, people can often forget about the other side. There's the offense and the defense. Good defense makes you wealthy too. And that's called the right kinds of insurance. Insurance is a tricky deal. Don't we all hate insurance? I pretty much hate insurance. It's like if you're, if you're, if your son became an insurance agent, you wouldn't be like proud. I mean, you know, it's like we just hate insurance. There's just something about it. It feels like we're pissing money away all the time. Right? Because sometimes you are. That's why you feel that way. Insurance is not bad, by the way. And I'd be happy if my son was an insurance agent, if he was selling the right kind, because it's a good defense, because you get the right kind of insurance. I mean, you need life insurance to take care of your kids if you die, right? They need to eat. You need good car insurance. If a car gets wrecked, you got to take care of that. You Need a house and homeowners insurance. So house burns, you got to take care of that, you know. But then there's all these rip off insurances out there and you know, we get caught up in trying to insure everything where we never have anything go out. Well, that's going to cost you out the ear and the rear both. I mean, this is bad.

[Caller]

Ears and rears, ears and rears.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's it. So anyway, what we've come up with is our guys in our protection section at Ramsey Solutions came up with the coverage checkup. Yep. For free. You can get your insurance looked at. You fill it all out for free. We will send you back. You're getting ripped off on this. You're not on this, you're underpaying on this, you're overpaying on this. This is a good deal. Oh, you haven't got enough of this. And we'll give you everything you need to know. So good insurance is worth the money and is part of a good financial plan, even though we all kind of go ooky. All right. But bad insurance will get you ripped off and you'll never have any money because all you did is insure everything. And the insurance company got all your money. Right. And so they got big buildings and you got a dinky butt house. That's how that works. Right. So we don't want that either. And the guy calling to renew your auto extended warranty too.

[Caller]

You still get on a car you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don'T even own anymore. Yeah, that guy. Yeah, him too. So go to ramseysolutions.com checkup. Take the coverage checkup for free. Click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. This is all free. And guys, we believe in the right kinds of insurance and we believe in not letting you get screwed on the other. And we don't care which one you do, except that we like you and we want you to win.

[Caller]

You need the right Goldilocks level of insurance and this will act as your coach. And it's the same types of insurance that Dave and I have.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just right, just right.

[Caller]

Not too much, not too little.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you for that. Matthew is in Dallas. Hey Matthew, what's up in your world?

[Amy]

Hey Dave, how you doing? Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Amy]

So I've got some, I've got some home repairs and some sort of of pending medical dental issues that are going to exhaust my emergency fund and I'm wondering if it makes sense to access some of the equity in my house to help to cover that. Or maybe even a loan against my 401k.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nope, nope, nope, nope. And nope, nope. And nope, nope and nope, nope. Don't want a loan on the 401k. Don't want a loan on the house. Let's deal with this. So what I would do is I would break these things into. Break the issues down into as many different events as I could. Okay. For instance, if there's five different things that need to be repaired on the home, they don't all have to be done at once. Let's break them down and put them in order of what we would want to do first, what we do second, what we do third. Same thing with the dental. Is the dental all one thing or can it be done in two different things? Or what period of time can it wait? What is involved? What is the dental thing, by the way? Way.

[Amy]

Well, my wife is at the dentist right now, and I think she's got a bunch of implants she's going to need, and they're talking $30,000 to get all that done. And so happy, happy wife, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, Happy, happy dentist. No, I'll tell you what we're going to do there is we're going to get a. What's known as a second opinion and a third opinion and a fourth opinion.

[Caller]

Is she in the chair right now?

[Amy]

Oh, she's doing a little bit of work today, but yeah, she'll come home with sort of the, you know, the prognosis and let me know what we got to talk about.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. The vast majority of dentists in America do a really good job, and some of them are semicon artists.

[Amy]

Yeah, I understand.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we're going to get a second and a third opinion and figure out what the treatment plan is for implants. Because I'll be honest, I've been doing this show 30 years. The number of times I heard anybody say anything about dentistry, that was 30 grand was close to zero. That just boggles my mind. I don't know anything about dentistry. Okay. But I have all taken a lot of calls from people. There's something about that. And so, again, I am not mad at dentists. I have one. I have friends that are dentists. A lot of them do a great job. We help people that are in dentistry all the time. It's a good feedback. But you know what we've got to do. It's a very emotional thing, and you need to, you know, we need to stage this out now. What home repairs have you got?

[Amy]

So it's. It's one monolithic Repair. It's foundation that's settling on the house and it's causing damage to the property. And I've had about three different contractors come out and I've got quotes from 10,000 to 31,000. And I'm trying to assess all.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and what, and you have how much in your emergency fund?

[Amy]

I've got three grand. I had, I had, I had 15, but I spent it all on baby step number two.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're at, you're in debt still?

[Amy]

I got about 7,000 in credit card debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. What's your household, what's your household income?

[Amy]

190.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you need 60,000 to clear all this? This?

[Amy]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Max.

[Amy]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

First dental bid and worst foundation bid is 30 and 30. Did I get those numbers right? Yeah, yeah, that's 60. You make 190. I think we can work this out this year.

[Amy]

Yeah, that's what I was looking at. I was forecasting it about cash flowing this stuff over the next.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You may have to stop your 401k. Have you done that yet? No. You have?

[Amy]

I have.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have? Yeah. When?

[Amy]

Yeah, I stopped the 401k probably a month or two ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. All right.

[Caller]

Well, you're bringing home 11 or 12 grand a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And how much of that can you put away toward all these savings goals?

[Amy]

Maybe five.

[Caller]

So your expenses are seven grand a month?

[Dave Ramsey]

Month.

[Caller]

Just to keep afloat.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, sir.

[Caller]

I think we need to look into cutting some of these expenses.

[Amy]

Well, I'm, you know, I'm paying off debt I'm getting rid of.

[Caller]

You said you had seven grand credit card.

[Amy]

Yeah, I've paid that over.

[George Camel]

Yeah, currently.

[Amy]

I've paid a lot of it off over the last few months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but currently you shouldn't have. 7 grand a month in expenses is George's point. So. Okay, we're going to tighten the budget. We've got $12,000 a month to work with. We need $67,000 to be debt free, dental free and foundation free. And we make $12,000. We make $144,000 take home pay. That's a one year set of goals. We just force rank these, decide when we're doing what we save into them. First you clear the seven, we figure out what the two stages or three stages are on the dental, and you get another bid or two on that. For real. I'm not kidding you. And then you decide maybe it's not the $30,000 foundation, maybe it's the 20 and so maybe it's a 20 and 20 maybe. We have a $40,000 problem and not a $60,000 problem. You can do this. You can cash flow this in a year. You're not going on vacation, by the way. And you're not going out to eat every night, by the way. And we're unplugging prime from your little Amazon button, by the way. And whatever else this money is leaking to because you have some serious stuff you've got to put money to. You have to completely focus your cash flows on 7,000 plus foundation, plus teeth. You get those things out, but you don't go borrow your way out of this mess. That's how you got in the mess in the first place. And you did call us, by the way.

[Caller]

Yeah, you called the wrong guys if you're looking to take out a heloc. I don't know how long you've been listening to the show, but there's other options and we just showed you you have an amazing income and you don't have a lot of debt. And so now we can clean this up. You start throwing six, seven grand at this a month, we're done in less than a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

This whole thing, this whole thing clears in a year.

[Caller]

But you've been staring at it as one giant pile all at once and that's very overwhelming.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not, you're not doing both of these things by Friday. And you don't need to, by the way.

[Caller]

So get that priority list down like Dave said, of what needs to be done. When does it need to be done? Let's get bids on all of it. And then make the smartest choice from a place of strength, not desperation.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if a contractor needs to go in there and shore up the wall with some temporary stuff. So I'm holds four more months in order to get the job. Four months from now. Oh, I bet he'll do that. Can you tell I've asked for that before? Yeah. Own a lot of real estate. Seen a few foundations fall. This is the Ramsey Show.

[George Camel]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thanks for being with us, America. Landon is in Fort Collins, Colorado. Hey, Landon, what's up?

[Amy]

Wow. I thank you guys for taking my call. It's an honor to speak to you guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Amy]

Yeah, so my wife and I, we have three boys under the age of three. I've been a stay at home dad for the last three years. So my question is, should I reenter the workforce if it means I spend more time away from my family?

[Dave Ramsey]

Three boys under the age of three?

[Amy]

Yeah. We have 19 month old twins and my oldest is three.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is so exciting.

[Amy]

Man.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a tea baby.

[Caller]

What are you going to do with the kids if you go back to work?

[Dave Ramsey]

He's gonna. You're gonna have to put him in, what, daycare or something?

[Amy]

Yeah, so I've been watching them full time during the day while my wife is at work. She's a foster care worker out here in Colorado.

[Dave Ramsey]

She's a what?

[Amy]

And I've been working. Foster care.

[Dave Ramsey]

Foster care. Okay, good. Okay. Yes. And what did, what did you do before all of this family explosion?

[Amy]

Well, my background is in church ministry as a worship leader, but I also have a lot of restaurant experience. So I've been working in restaurants for the last several years in the evenings and on the weekends while my wife stays home with kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, all right.

[Caller]

And what's driving you to want to go back to the workforce?

[Amy]

Well, beginning of this year, as you can imagine, with three boys in diapers, it's been a lot on our stream financially. And God just gave me a wake up call. We got our finances back in order. Got sick and tired of being sick and tired. And so here we are being on budget for going on seven months now.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's you taking those evening gigs, right? So is that what you mean when you say enter the workforce? You've already done it?

[Amy]

Well, I've been. I've been working on the weekends and at night.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but you're talking about going back full time. Okay, so if you go back full time, what are we doing with the kiddos?

[Amy]

So that would be. Well, the closest family we have is three hours away. So there was talks of us moving closer, but that looks like that plans on the off the table table for now. We also talked about splitting time, watching the kids, my wife doing like a work from home day one day a week, or just absorbing the cost of a nanny and getting more serious about finding just jobs that pay more than a nanny would cost. Anything above that would be pure profit.

[Caller]

And daycare is not on the table?

[Amy]

I don't think so. It's just. We've looked at the child care costs out here and it's just insane.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, three little ones. I mean, you, you can hire a nanny. Yeah, probably. And come out. Yeah. Okay, so your question is? I'm trying to figure out what is you're wanting to do.

[Amy]

So I want to. Well, I'm being considered for a part time church position right now, but that would be a matter of about 20 hours a week.

[Caller]

What would that be?

[Amy]

Finding another part time It'd be about, at the very most, would be about 29 a year.

[Caller]

And what does your wife make right now?

[Amy]

She makes 65.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you would change careers is what you're talking about.

[Amy]

Well, no, I, I did that prior to us having kids. And even like while, while we've had kids, I've been a worship.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, I mean, I mean you. Okay, you're not talking about a $29,000 and that doesn't afford a nanny?

[Amy]

Well, no, that's, that's just for $20 a week. It's basically a part time gig. Kind of like what I've been doing. But I'm talk time, if not another full time position on top of that, because I'm tired of being this broke.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. That's where we are. Okay. All right. Well, 100% of the time that we go to work, we're away from our family. Everyone. Men, women, babies, teenagers at home. 100%. Okay. And so perpetually, ladies that are working outside the home get guilt tripped about not being in the home. Ladies in the home get guilt tripped about not being in the workplace. Men working in the home get guilt tripped. Or men being at home with the kids get guilt tripped for not being in the workplace. And I get this call, or you're in the workplace, you're going, we're farming out our three kids, you know, and so I think the trick is to achieve a balance called parenting. And the balance is that when you're there, you're there, you're not watching Netflix, and that you arrange your schedules in such a way that the amount of time that one of you or the other is not there is mental. And then if you've done all of that, you don't have. You are working, you are earning some money. I'm tired of being this broke. We are cleaning up the mess and we're not destroying our children in the process. Okay, so lots of families, both parents work in America. Most families, both parents work in America. Now, not every family has as many tinies as you got. You got a bunch of tinies. You got a circus going on over there, man. So that you got. You're at a prime time for crazy, man. This is. It's wonderful. But our youngest granddaughter is getting ready to turn one next week. And so, you know, we've had these littles running around our ankles for the last few years and just watching them parent them, it's. It's a mess. And I'd forgotten how much dadgum work it is. But so you know, you're a freaking hero. Been doing what you're doing. I admire you.

[Amy]

Well, it feels like someday. It feels like some days I forget too, but I think that's the sleep deprivation time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, and the fact that you've not had the English language spoken in front of you all day, you're doing.

[Caller]

Great on this call so far. I'm impressed, Landon.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, yeah, I mean, but it's going.

[Caller]

To be harder for you because you've been around them 247 and so it's more difficult for you because this jump is a little bit further.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if I'm you, which is the way, you know, if I understand your question properly, I am going back to work under two conditions. One, I make enough to justify the nanny's hours that does need to be there. Two, we figure out how we can adjust all of our hours to where one of us is there a lot of the time where this is not. We're not both gone straight up nine to five every day. You know what I'm saying? And so if she's there a lot of mornings or she's there, she works from home on Friday. And you know, there's a. So their kids are with a nanny five hours, six hours a day, four days a week. And you guys can accept that for a period of time. And you are making enough to make that money, make enough money to make that worthwhile, then you've got two things working. You've got a good touch point on the kiddos. And we're not messing up the kiddos and we don't have to be freaked out about that. And because you're going to get judgment, you know, that, that from outsiders, but they don't get a vote. You and your wife are the ones figuring this out. So if I know my kids are okay and I haven't just completely 9 to 5, you know, left them, which is a concern from your point emotionally. And that's a fair one. And I'm making enough to justify the nanny's hours that is there, then I'm doing this. But it may take a while to line up all those stars and you.

[Caller]

Probably need to go make 65, 70 grand to make this make sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Have a take home pay of four grand to pay a nanny or even daycare.

[Amy]

Yeah, absolutely. And that's the other thing. I've been kind of. With this shift away from being saved on dad, I'm wanting to start pursuing a career in the trades. But the hard part about that is just the distance from Our local union is like an hour's drive away.

[Dave Ramsey]

Trades that aren't union.

[Amy]

Yeah, I'm just looking at like with like electrical trades.

[Dave Ramsey]

Lots of electrical trades that aren't union. Yeah. In Fort Collins freaking Colorado. It's not exactly a union hub.

[Amy]

Yeah. The only true like thing that's in this area is a private. But yeah, there's two unions predominantly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dude, if you want to be an electrician you can go to work for a guy wiring houses right now and start learning. Yeah. And you make really good money. Non union, union.

[Amy]

Yeah. The hard part is I've seen that it's just low for the first couple of years until you actually Maybe or maybe not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Depends on where you are.

[Amy]

I mean the long term benefits are worth it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not necessarily more than my wife would. Not necessarily. There are guys that are blessed in union situations and there are guys that are trapped in them too. It's not, it's not the, it's not apples to apples. So that, that, don't let that be your limiting factor. Trades are starving and they pay well. Whatever the trade is, electrical or otherwise, they're starving. They need you and they pay really well and they probably gonna be pretty flexible because you probably could start at sunup and be home by 3:30 and that starts to adjust the schedule like we're talking. You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets. I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pro. Whether you're looking for car, home or any other type of insurance. Ramsey Trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would find what you [e-mail] insurance. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Thank you for joining us, America. George Campbell Ramsey, personality number one best selling author and host of the George Campbell show on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co host today but Maya is with us in Switzerland. Hi Maya, what's up?

[George Camel]

Hi guys. Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[George Camel]

So I started to listen to you all a few months ago and I think that I am doing everything roughly in the right order. But I'm stumped on the one point about saving for a down payment. And the reason is I live overseas as you heard and my parents basically have set me up to inherit two homes. So I'm not feeling like it would make sense to save for a down payment when I stand to inherit homes pretty soon. So I'm focusing on investing instead. But I wanted to check that.

[Caller]

Are they in poor health?

[George Camel]

My mother passed away actually two, three years ago, and my father is 85, so I'm actually helping him manage all the logistics with respect to the homes. So they're effectively under my management at the moment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you going to be in Geneva permanently or is this a short stay or. Or what?

[George Camel]

I've been here for four years. I like it here, but I don't think I'm going to retire here. I'm 30. So just to give you an idea of also where I am, what do you do?

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm curious.

[George Camel]

I work for a nonprofit.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, cool. I've been to Geneva several times. In Switzerland is one of my faves. It's just fabulous. So I'm a little bit jealous right now. It is absolutely beautiful and the best train system in the world. Man, it's unbelievable. Trains run on time, Swiss time, by the way. Yeah, I mean, it's great. Anyway, sidebar. But yeah, I don't blame you for wanting to stay. The point is you're not going to be there permanently. And if you're investing in good mutual funds, there's nothing that keeps you from when you're 40, liquidating the two houses in some of your investments to buy a home that you want someday.

[George Camel]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

The likelihood of you living in One of these two homes until you're 80 is probably zero. But selling one of them. Selling one of them to buy your home is probably pretty high.

[George Camel]

One of them is fully paid off. It's worth about 900. The other, we owe about 500 on it still. But it's rented at the moment for more than the mortgage. And so I put all of the rent towards the mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[George Camel]

And then there's a third condo that we have to sell for various reasons in the next year. And so I'm expecting to get about 150 from that to throw it to rental payment towards the. Yeah, yeah, I'm planning on putting that there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let's pretend. Let's pretend for just a second. Just mathematically that the. There's no emotional connection to any of these. You're going to have a million 5 in real estate pretty soon.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if you liquidated that and bought whatever you wanted three years from now, you haven't lost any ground at all. So our 10 years from now, I don't care. So you're fine. No, you don't have to save for a down payment, quote unquote. But when you put money into an investment, if you, if you decided the name of that investment someday was add to the down payment, you could, you could do that if you wanted to. But it's not messing up your baby steps. You can just invest. That's fine. Are you, are, you're debt free?

[George Camel]

Yeah, I'm totally debt free. I have about 75k in high yield savings and I have about 50 in a Roth and 35 in a brokerage that I add about 3000 to a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I just run this like you were in baby step seven. I agree, I agree with, with you.

[George Camel]

Okay, that's super reassuring. Can I ask a second question since we're all here?

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[George Camel]

I was basically wanting to know. I'm thinking about changing careers sometime in the next year or so. And we know we're generating rental income from the US based properties. I have solid savings, as you've heard. Is there anything that I need to keep in mind just in terms of keeping myself financially okay. If I had to, for example, get another degree and potentially start over in a new line of work work.

[Caller]

Would you not work during the.

[Dave Ramsey]

As long as you have the income to support both things, I'm fine.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller]

Like if you took a year off and went to school full time.

[George Camel]

It would probably be a year to two years. Or if I decided I really wanted to do a radical switch, I would get a Ph.D. and that would take several years.

[Dave Ramsey]

I probably would do that while working.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller]

And see if you're a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your age. I would go to work for the university. University. And be a TA and get your PhD for free.

[George Camel]

You would say that I should work even if we are netting somewhere between 6 to 7k on the rentals. Yeah, a month. And that's just money for me to take like my father is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I don't want you, I don't want you sitting around working on a PhD doing nothing. It's not a full time job. PhD is a process.

[Caller]

We take calls from perpetual students and what it turns out is it's usually a distraction from something else and they're just sort of in school to keep.

[Dave Ramsey]

What would you be getting your PhD in?

[George Camel]

I'm actually considering retraining as a psychologist. It's an area of super interest of mine. And again, there's different ways to do that. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you would have to get your. You'd have to get a minimum of a master's in order to get. You don't have to have a PhD. But it's nice to have Dr. In front of your name if you're doing that. But yeah, but again, that's something you can do while doing some other things and build that up. That's just a decision you gotta make. But no, I wouldn't take five years off and live off of the rental income and work on a PhD exclusively. No. I think you probably put your hand to the plow a little bit. Will be good for you in the process. And be sure you do some practicum stuff around that. Get around some of the counselors and things you think you want to do and make sure before you put all this time and effort into it that you do really want to do it. Not just I'm intrigued by it. There's a lot, a lot more money and effort than that to get a PhD. So might get a master's and get open my practice and get started and then work on your PhD while you're doing that. It might actually help your dissertation. So if you're actually we're doing something in the real world, might. I don't know. We'd have to ask Deloney. He's the one around here that collects PhD.

[Caller]

Two of them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I know. He's got two more than me and you put together. Yeah.

[Caller]

That's okay. We all have the same job. So what does that say?

[Dave Ramsey]

I have a PhD in dumb.

[Caller]

It's worked out. I graduated and you graduated from that school. Did free. Minus a few zeros.

[Dave Ramsey]

Maya, I think you got a good plan. You're working smart. Keep it up. Lean into that and think it through. Sidebar for everybody else. George, we don't recommend buying real estate for a home. A when you're in debt and don't have any savings and B, we don't want to be perpetual renters for 50 years. But it's okay to take to not own real estate at certain periods of.

[Caller]

Time, especially when you're living internationally as an example.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so. But you don't want to, you know, you don't want to miss out on the appreciation of the real estate market for 40 years. You don't want to miss out on the savings that you have in the cost of living by not being a renter. Because rent goes up every year. But payments don't. House payments don't. Yeah.

[Caller]

If you get a fixed rate loan, that payment's going to stay the same outside of your property taxes and insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then you get it paid off and then all you've got is property and Taxes and insurance and you know that it becomes part of your wealth building plan to be an owner in real estate. So we love real estate. We think you ought to buy real estate. We think you ought to be a homeowner. But there are certain times when you take a break and don't do that.

[Caller]

Yeah, military folks, this applies to them a lot. They're moving around every two years. Do not go and buy a home and then just up and leave or worse, rent it out and have a little rental empire across the country you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Got to deal with of houses that are in debt that you became a landlord by default on. That would be a nightmare right there. Sam. I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. Bankrupt with a toddler and a brand new baby at home. Scared doesn't even begin to cover it. But I got mad enough to change. I started using God's and grandma's ways of handling money. That journey became the total money makeover, a plan everyday people can use to take control of their money. Millions have changed their lives following the plan in the street book and found hope. Start your makeover [e-mail] store. If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling, feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free Every dollar trainings. These are new trainings every week this month and they're hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities, like George.

[Caller]

I did one this week. I had a good time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did you? Was the Q and A good?

[Caller]

I can't speak for that part. I'll have to ask the audience to see what they thought of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I thought, did you get good questions?

[Caller]

Oh, really good. We actually put them on audio. We say, hey, jump on there. And we get to hear their voice like the Ramsey show. So it's a lot of fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that's cool. It's all free. And you go to everydollar.com webinar and we're going to show you how to stick to a budget and find $9,000 worth of margin using EveryDollar. That's the average we're seeing with EveryDollar users that do it the way we teach. And we're learning to teach you inside the app how to do it. And we're going to accentuate that app experience with George or Rachel or Jade and they're going to teach you how to do it. And $9,000 worth of margin, is that like a month?

[Caller]

That is a total margin created. So that's if you sold stuff money you freed up every month. Okay, so total amount.

[Dave Ramsey]

So reorganizing the existing situation to put it towards the baby steps.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

It creates $9,000 worth of oomph. Hey, that's pretty cool. Serious, it's called like a head start.

[Caller]

That's breathing room right there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did y' all ever do head starts when you're like racing as a kid? The little kid gets a head start.

[Caller]

That was always me.

[Dave Ramsey]

A nine thousand dollar head start. That's pretty cool. I'll take that. I'll take that. Where I come from, love a head start. Did you get a head start, George?

[George Camel]

Always.

[Dave Ramsey]

Always. Did you ever win?

[Caller]

Occasionally. I'm faster than I look.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you're probably little gazelle going there.

[Caller]

Yeah, the little feet, but they're quick.

[Dave Ramsey]

A little gazelle going. I'm just saying.

[Caller]

You ever seen a lizard move? It's impressive. It's exactly what I look like running, just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I've seen. There's no. I can't. Okay. Quinn is in Houston. Hey, Quinn.

[George Camel]

Hey. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[George Camel]

Hey. So long story short, my question is kind of am I the financial abuser in my marriage or is it actually my husband?

[Dave Ramsey]

Whoa.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Harsh words have been spoken.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Why are you the financial abuser? Does he say?

[George Camel]

Okay, so basically my husband earns about 140,000 a year. He is also applying actively for positions that. And he has a good chance of getting a job that pays like 165 plus a 25% bonus every year. So roughly, you know, 200,000 a year. He's in, you know, software engineer, basically. I, on the other hand, I make 50,000 a year at my job and I do get a little bit of child support from my ex, but it's not consistent. I'm also in graduate school. I still have two or three years left. He claims that I'm the financial abuser because he says that I have more money in my bank account. The reason that I have more money in my bank account is because I actually sold my vehicle because it was going to cost more to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are y' all married?

[George Camel]

We are. We have separate bank accounts. It's a whole thing.

[Caller]

It is.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think we found the problem.

[George Camel]

Yes. So we basically had separate bank accounts from the time we moved in together. That was his decision. I wanted joint. You know, even before we got married. We were living together when we were engaged, but he insisted on having separate for the time being. And he claimed that, you know, we would look into getting joint. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

But now you're married.

[Caller]

How long you've been married now?

[George Camel]

Yes, two years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're an abuser because you.

[George Camel]

Have more in savings, just more in general. So he claims that he has to use all of his income that he makes. He has about maybe 10,000 in savings and in his checking. I mean, his checks are roughly 7,000amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

So he makes 200,000, you make 50, and he has to pay more of the bills. And that makes you the abuser.

[George Camel]

Yes. Well, right now he's not making 200, but he has a potential.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, I know. He's going from 144 to 165, plus a 20% bonus. I know the story.

[Caller]

So if you transferred all of your money to his account, now he's the abuser because he has more than you know.

[George Camel]

I didn't transfer my money to his account.

[Caller]

It's an example. I'm saying it's. I don't understand how that's abusive. To have more money and account than someone else.

[George Camel]

I agree. I agree. And he claims that he has to use all of his money. Money basically to pay all the big bills. He went and got a very expensive car payment before we got married. I advised him not to do that. I told him he should get a used vehicle.

[Dave Ramsey]

The problem is that you guys have done this all wrong.

[Caller]

There's no abuse here.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's just stupidity and not. Yeah, I don't know. That's the only way to say it.

[Caller]

No one's. Yeah, it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

That was harsh, George.

[Caller]

I'm sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

But sell the pony. You guys are like venmoing each other.

[Caller]

Going tit for tat and scoreboards. And you have more than me this month.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so. Yeah, okay, number one, this is not abuse by either one of you. And that is not a word you should use to. About your spouse.

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Unless there's some extreme emotional or physical harm being incurred, there's no. You know, then there's not anything like that going on.

[Caller]

If he takes all your paychecks and gives you an allowance, we would call that there's some financial abuse.

[Dave Ramsey]

He wouldn't let you buy food or something, then that would be abuse. Okay, but that's not going on here. This is just an argument because you guys have two separate lives and you can't decide with your roommate who needs to buy the mustard.

[George Camel]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so if you cannot sit down in the next few weeks and have adult discussions about having a real marriage, which is a combined income where we change our names, we don't have his income and your income. We have our income. We don't have your savings or my savings or your car or my car or your debt or my debt. We have our problems and our opportunities and our savings and our income. And then you combine everything and you do a combined budget to reach towards the goals that we both believe we want our future to look like, which would include paying off his stupid car or selling it. It would include working a plan to get out of debt and have an emergency savings. It would include having some money set aside to do some fun things with. It would include generosity that these are decisions as a married couple that we are now making together. Because you are no longer roommates. If you cannot change your language and the spirit of this discussion to that kind of combination that the two of us are going to join arms and it's us against the world and we are going to go win together, then you will need to sit down with a marriage counselor.

[George Camel]

Right. And we are in marriage counseling now, but he has been actively plotting divorce with his mother, who does not like me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Camel]

It's been a whole.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now we're getting to it. Now we're getting to it.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Camel]

So that's.

[Dave Ramsey]

So there's no financial abuse going on. We have marriage problems.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And we have mother in law problems.

[George Camel]

Oh, yeah. She determined from day one she did not like me.

[Caller]

And she's made he tell you that she's plotting divorce.

[George Camel]

He's given me access to his phone. He told me I could go through anything I want because there was a path of foreign addiction. So I found emails that were between his mother and he where he was claiming that I am coercively controlling him, that I'm financially abusing him. And he. And she was talking about how she's going to pay for his retainer for his lawyer.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. If you guys don't have marriage counseling, both of you going to a good counselor to begin to work through this and carving his mother out of the discussion. You're not gonna make it.

[George Camel]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So all of the other stuff doesn't matter then.

[George Camel]

Right? Yeah. That's kind of where we're at, is that he is. He claims that he. Because we agreed to go no contact with his mom because of some things she'd been doing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And then he violated that. And he's, you know, you guys are not working together. He's work. He's developing a plan to leave. If that is not truncated. He's gonna leave.

[George Camel]

Right. And the only thing he only does that because he's upset.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's not. It's not true. He's a child. He's being a little boy and he ran to his mommy.

[George Camel]

Yes. That's what I've been telling him. And it makes me feel incredibly isolated. And so I'm kind of. I don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you do not both start going to marriage counseling, the net result is you're not going to make it six months.

[George Camel]

Right. We've been doing it on and off. We've got a new one recently. I think she's good.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's not going to.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you listen to me, if you two are not together in a marriage counselor's office soon and regularly, you're not gonna make it six months. Honey, you don't. You don't have. You don't have a language to talk to each other right now.

[George Camel]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

All this is a. Every time you look at him, it's a battle. Every time he looks at you, it's a battle. There's nobody working towards something. We're all working away from everything. All of your language has been that since you've been on the phone.

[Caller]

Separate accounts do not solve problems, they just conceal them. Joint accounts don't solve problems, but it does expose them. And that's a good thing. Gets to the root of the problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

In the marriage and that's it. You know, the whole discussion started out as a separate account discussion. And turns out that wasn't the problem. It was masking the real problem. The real problem is mother in law. Well, that's never happened.

[Caller]

Had a nickel.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's never happened. Why is it that when warm weather hits, people start losing their common sense? They swipe credit cards left and right saying, I need a vacation. I deserve this. But by August, they're stuck cleaning up a mess. Listen to me carefully. You don't need to spend five grand on beach trips and theme park tickets to make family memories. Here's the deal. Instead of having the summer you deserve, have the summer you can afford. That means planning ahead with the Every Dollar budget app. It helps you track spending and give every single dollar a job. That way you make sure the essentials are covered and have some fun without making a money mess. Look, you gotta start bossing your money around or else it' always be the boss of you. Download Every dollar today. Taylor's with us in Fresno. Hey, Taylor, what's up?

[George Camel]

Hi, George. Hi, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, how can we help?

[George Camel]

So I'm wondering if I should go to Italy while I'm saving for a house. And for a car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. As long as you don't want to buy the car or the house as soon.

[George Camel]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because it's kind of like that math trade off thing, right?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Italy's cool.

[George Camel]

I mean, I want to find out.

[Caller]

So how much is it going to cost?

[George Camel]

About $7,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so how long does that delay your goal on a house?

[George Camel]

I'm planning on saving 200,000 just to get in that 25% of my take home being my mortgage. Mortgage. So probably only by six months.

[Caller]

Okay, so you're only saying Italy trip.

[Dave Ramsey]

Costs your house purchase six months.

[George Camel]

Say that again.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you go to Italy, you buy the house six months later than if you don't go to Italy.

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what are you gonna do?

[George Camel]

The reason. Well, the reason why I am really questioning it is just because I've been trying to be intentional about like where my money's going and what I'm saving it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You are being intentional.

[George Camel]

Then I'm taking the money that I was like saving for a house and a car. Now I'm spending on Italy.

[Caller]

That's why.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you're intentionally doing it and you're thinking about it. Because we're making you look at what the trade off is. And if you can accept the trade off and you still want to go to Italy that bad.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then you'll go to Italy. If you don't, you know, is. Is it worth seven months delay in purchasing a home?

[Caller]

Okay, what do you make?

[George Camel]

I make about 98.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you? I'm 37. Who's going with you?

[George Camel]

It's a good friend and a group.

[Dave Ramsey]

A group. Okay.

[George Camel]

Yeah, a group.

[Dave Ramsey]

So somebody else pulled the trip together.

[George Camel]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

And. And interjected it as a, an interruption to your plan.

[George Camel]

Well, I mean, it is. Yeah, it's opportunity.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I know it's an interruption. Interruption.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's okay. See, the thing about intentional is you weigh out the differences. When you're not intentional, you go Italy, but damn the question. Right. And you didn't do that, which means you got your freaking act together. I'm proud of you.

[George Camel]

Well, because of you.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you said, I can do this, but it's going to cost me. Which is like an adult statement rather than a child statement of I work so hard and I've always dreamed of Italy. Bull crap. We all work hard and everybody's dreamed of Italy. Shut up.

[Caller]

Most people put it on a credit card and worry about it later. You're actually feeling the full cost because you're paying cash for this thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'M not sure I would do it. Because you could go to Italy anytime. They're not moving it. It's still going to be there.

[George Camel]

Yeah. I think I'd miss out on the opportunity of having, like a group to go.

[Dave Ramsey]

You'd have missed out on the opportunity of having this group.

[George Camel]

Group, correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

There'll be another group. I've been several times. It's still on.

[Caller]

Six months of building equity in that home and appreciation as well. So there's always another side.

[Dave Ramsey]

Either one's okay. But don't act like that. This is. Oh, God. There's only one chance now. That's not true. It's not true. To get to go this particular time, at this particular moment with this particular group is going to delay you. You not. It's my only chance to ever get to go. If I don't go now, they're going to close Italy. They're not. They're still going to be there. Okay. So don't get into that drama mode. Keep yourself above this like you started the conversation and then you'll make a good decision. I'm okay if you delay it. As long as you do it on purpose and you've weighed out the problem and you did it without a fatalistic thing like they're closing Italy. They're not.

[George Camel]

I'm currently keeping my savings in a cd. Do you recommend that or. Because before I just had it in a regular savings account.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's fine. That's fine.

[Caller]

I would keep it in a high yield.

[Dave Ramsey]

High yield savings. Probably make as much or more than a CD with no penalties for pulling it. So I'd probably look at that. But yeah. Is that what you do, George?

[Caller]

I just do high yield savings. How long is this home goal savings plan? Is this two years, seven years?

[George Camel]

At the end of this year I'll have 100,000 and I can save 36,000 a year. So I would think it would take me three more years.

[Caller]

Okay, here's the thing. You said you were saving 36 grand a year.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So that means that this Italy trip is not costing you six months.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's true.

[George Camel]

Like two months.

[Caller]

Well, if you're saving three grand a month, it's about a two month delay.

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Caller]

So now I can stomach this a little more when I actually put the facts around it and go, okay, it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Going to take me two miles to save 100,000 until now. That's also very impressive. So I think you. I think you need to go.

[George Camel]

Yeah. So honestly, I have all this money saved.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think I would go, I'm planning.

[George Camel]

Honestly because of you, Dave, because they're sort of listening to you like four years ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but I think I would go. I think the trade off is, is not bad at all.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller]

If this was consumer debt baby step two, we'd say, no, you need to be intense. But you've moved from intense to intentional once you get out of baby step three. And you've done that so well. So we're not here to tell you don't go on vacation, you're not broke. You just need to be okay with the trade off and maybe you make up the difference and you go, you know what? I'm going to work a side gig to make up that six grand over the next year so that I don't feel as guilty about it. You do you, but just make peace with whatever decision you make.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you have made really good decisions. I want to recap only one part of the conversation. Okay. The one thing everyone needs to avoid, including Dave, is the idea that there's only one time to do something. Something. There's this one tiny opportunity and if I miss that, that's almost never true. Might be true of a wedding. You might miss the wedding or something like that. Okay, that's possible. But you know, a group going to Italy, there's not only one time in your life you can go a lot of different times and you might find a group you like better later. It's possible. So you don't want to trap yourself into this one time thinking because that adds drama to this and it adds too much, much weight to the Italy trip. The Italy trip is not a bad idea. And a two month delay in your home purchase as especially as good a job as you've done overall, because you're like killing it, girl. I mean, you're doing really good. I'm so proud of you. Given all of that, I think you should go. If it was me in your shoes, I would go.

[Caller]

You know how rare Dave Ramsey green lights a trip to Italy for $7,000. Taylor, you just hit the jackpot. Just go.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's. I mean, it's where she is. She's there.

[Caller]

Don't you think she's done such a job? Yeah. Most people that want to go to Italy are whining and they're going to put it on credit and we have to talk them off a ledge. We're trying to convince Taylor to go because of how good of a job she's done.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, she's going to go, but.

[Caller]

And if it Delayed the house purchase by a year, I'd say. Whoa, that's a lot. Two months, she's going to be right there. And she'll probably get a raise, as hard of a worker she is, and make up the difference.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's.

[Caller]

But this all comes down to opportunity cost. We talk about this a lot. What is it going to cost me if I go buy that car? That means I can't fund this retirement account. And so you just got to weigh the options. None of these are bad things.

[Dave Ramsey]

Trade off. If you spend all your money on interior decorating or purses or guns or whatever it is you spend all your money on, then you don't have any money. It's kind of a math thing and. Or travel. It's kind of a math thing. I will tell you guys this. Sharon and I are at this stage these days to where we are really enjoying living like no one else on the travel stuff. And we've always done some travel. Always throughout our lives, you know, except when we were broke. Broke. But I mean, once we got to where we could afford it, we've always done some. But now we're at the stage to where the live like no one else thing is kicking in. And I strongly advise that you. It's one of the benefits of working your tail end off and saving so that you can go enjoy some of it. And that's for after your baby step seven. You're moving on. Live like no one else and give like no. So that later you can live like no one else and give like no one else. But if you blow it all and say, well, I'm 24 and I have to go to London. No, you don't. London's going to be there. They're not closing. Doesn't close up, you know, FOMO and.

[Caller]

The friends and the pressure and I'm gonna miss out and I'll see the Instagram posts and if you.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you. If you do what your broke friends do, guess what? You're gonna get broke.

[Caller]

That's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pretty simple.

[Caller]

I'd pursue the Jomo and said the joy of missing out because, you know, you've got your plan, you got your goals, you're doing you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I think Taylor's. I think Taylor's going to Italy and she's going to enjoy it.

[Caller]

Send us some photos, too.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think she's going to buy a really nice house when she gets back. By the way.

[Caller]

Both and. Yeah, both are possible when you follow the Ramsey plan.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is the Ramsey Show, Sam. Our scripture of the day. Proverbs 14:25. A truthful witness saves lives. But one who breathes out lies is deceitful. That seems redundant to me. If you breathe out lies, of course you're deceitful. Deceitful.

[Caller]

Sometimes the obvious must be stated.

[Dave Ramsey]

Back in the Bible days, I might have to go look up a different version to make sure I understand that scripture because apparently I don't understand it. A truthful witness saves lives. Now, I do understand that because, like, when you tell somebody the truth on this show, sometimes it sounds harsh. Yep. Like, that's not abuse, that's stupid.

[Caller]

But we're trying to save you.

[Dave Ramsey]

But that saves lives because I'm not breathing no lies. We get to the bottom of what's really going on. Right. Rupert Murdoch said, I'm not an economist. And we all know economists were created to make weather forecasters look good.

[Caller]

That's good.

[Dave Ramsey]

My line, Rupert, is weather forecasters and economists are the only two people that could be wrong most of the time and still keep their jobs. That's my line.

[Caller]

So true.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I've been using that one for a long time on Fox. And other things are like, Dave, what do you think the economy is going to do? I'm like, oh, weather forecasters, I don't do that.

[Caller]

And talking about heads, which are economists.

[Dave Ramsey]

There we go. There we go. There's. There are those. Brian is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, Brian, what's up?

[Quinn]

Hey, Dave, how are you doing? I'm $20,000 in credit card debt. I am currently renting and I'd like to pay that off and save for a home.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Quinn]

And I don't know where to start.

[Caller]

Well, getting rid of the debt would be a great start. What do you mean make?

[Quinn]

So take home after taxes for my job is about $4,700.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, did you say 2700?

[Quinn]

2700 for my job and then I get about $2,000 a month in VA disability for a total of 4700.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank for you. Thank you for your service. Well, I appreciate that.

[Quinn]

Thank you.

[Caller]

What caused the 20 grand in credit card debt?

[Quinn]

I was unemployed last year and kind of blew through my savings and was living like I had a job on a credit card and savings. And it's caught up to me and I'm treading water with my floaties on, but if they pop, I'm kind of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you single and 26? Excuse me? Are you single and 26?

[Quinn]

I'm not married. I. I live with my girlfriend.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're single and how old are you? Yeah.

[Quinn]

30.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, I got close. Okay. All right.

[Caller]

Is this split up amongst a bunch of credit cards?

[Quinn]

It's currently on two credit cards that are almost maxed out.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's coming out of your check.

[Quinn]

Right now? About $510 a month. I have a Discover card that I put a hold on.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what's coming out of of your check? Taxes, health insurance.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

401K.

[Quinn]

401K. All that stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you got money going into 401K?

[Quinn]

Yes, sir. I'm at a new job.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is going into the 401k?

[Quinn]

The bare minimum that they automatically signed you up for.3%. Automatically sign me up for right now?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, sir.

[Quinn]

And then every year they do a profit share at the end of the year.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's real nice if you weren't broke. Okay.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we're going to stop the 401k. Okay. And we're going to take anything else out of that check except health insurance and taxes and make sure you have the right amount of taxes and right amount of health insurance and everything else needs to come home. We're going to get on a detailed.

[Caller]

Written budget and you're going to increase our income. So what can you do to make more than 2,700 bucks a month?

[Quinn]

Well, I'm in a sales job, so I do have some commission that comes in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Great. What are you selling?

[Quinn]

Construction supplies.

[Dave Ramsey]

Great. Awesome. Because it's getting ready to. Boom. Get ready. There's another forecast from the Economist. Yeah. All right. I still think it is, though. All right, so we're going to do anything we can to increase our income. We're going to do anything we can to make the income behave. We're not going out to eat and we're not going on vacation. And we've got $4,700 a month. Probably closer by the time this is all down to $5000 a month and we need to pay off $20,000. So $2000 a month. Of that 5000 going to credit card debt. You will be debt free in 10 months.

[Quinn]

Okay, question.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is your car payment?

[Quinn]

I don't have a car payment. I've got a paid off vehicle.

[Dave Ramsey]

That was a trick question. Okay, what was you getting ready to say, sir? I interrupted you.

[Quinn]

I've got a paid off vehicle and a company truck, but that. That vehicle is about to need some maintenance. About about $1,000 in labor. I've got all the parts.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good, good. That's not a problem.

[Caller]

Okay, so how much can you throw at the debt currently Based on your expenses, how much margin do you have? Do you have 2000 you could throw at it?

[Quinn]

Once I rein it in, yes. At the end of the month, I do. My current problem is my finances are kind of skewed because I. I guess I would call myself head of household. I pay the rent at the beginning of the month, and then my brother and my girlfriend pay me as they get paid later on. So I come out of pocket pretty heavy on the first.

[Dave Ramsey]

They need to get ahead of that, and they need to pay their part on the first.

[Caller]

I know you're the landlord. You set the rules. Payments come in on the first.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's it.

[Quinn]

Yeah, they're pretty. Typically pretty good about it, but because I am in a little bit better position.

[Amy]

Position.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not in a better position. You're deeply in debt.

[Caller]

You maxed out two credit cards.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

I don't want to know what their situation is, if that makes you look good. But we got to clean this up fast. And I'm thinking this takes less than 10 months. If you get serious about it, you cut some expenses, you increase that income, this debt is gone.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want you to list your debts. Smallest to largest, the credit cards. What's the smallest credit card?

[Quinn]

About ten grand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Tennis?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

You only owe twenty.

[Quinn]

Well, the next credit cards. Eleven grand, give or take.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you have two.

[Quinn]

I have two. Two credit cards. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Okay. All right. So we're going to attack the ten grand. Two grand a month, five months, it's gone.

[Caller]

That frees up that payment. So apply that plus all the margin you were throwing at it to the next credit card. That one's gone another five months or less.

[Quinn]

Does that mean I stopped paying?

[Dave Ramsey]

No. You pay minimum payments is all. Interest rate is not your problem. Your problem is cash flow. And so we're going to get all the cash we can pile up every single month by tightening everything down to nothing. No going out to eat, no vacations, no luxuries. You have a freaking mess. You're cleaning up. And you're very intense and intentional when you do that. You will get out of debt. You cannot fix this with math. It's not a math problem problem. It's a sacrifice. Live on beans and rice. Rice and beans problem.

[Quinn]

Can I one question for you. Would it like, what if I was to balance, transfer, all of that, and then really hammer that one card?

[Dave Ramsey]

It don't matter.

[George Camel]

It would.

[Quinn]

Same outcome.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. Because the interest rate. The interest rate over 10 months on this is not. Is not relevant. The actual interest. Okay, let Me show you what I'm talking about. Okay. 10% in a year on $20,000 is $2,000. Okay? You're not going to be in there a year. You're going to be in there an average of a half a year. And so we're talking about $1,000 in interest. $1,000 does not fix a $20,000 problem.

[Caller]

And worse, that balance transfer will cost you 3 to 5% of the balance and make you think you actually did something to where you get comfortable and go, well, zero percent now, so I can kind of take my time with it. I want you to feel a fire. When there's 29% APR on that card. You're going, I gotta get out of this and never touch it again.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want you to sell so much stuff, the kids think they're next, the dog is hiding, and your roommates considering moving out.

[Caller]

That's your girlfriend, so that's extra awkward.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I mean, you're really. You need to get with it and roll up your sleeves and get pissed off about this and get rid of this debt. And when you do it, when you get that kind of attitude about it, the math quits mattering. If you're gonna keep the debt for years, then I can't help you. But a balance transfer might. But that's a dumb way to do this because you're going to be in debt the rest of your life, screwing around with it instead. This incredible focused intensity, like you're running for your life. And then you cut up these stupid cards and you never touch them again for anything that'll get you out of debt and keep you out of debt. Sir. Yeah. George and I will sign you up for every dollar, including Financial Peace University. And we're going to put you, think, put you in there and show you how to handle this. And then if the girlfriend brings becomes a wife, it'll become a good thing. And the two of you can learn to work together at that point. Until then, you're not working together. You have a roommate, and that's better. Keep everything separate, brother. You're gonna have a problem if you don't. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus, Sam.