Big Paychecks Won’t Fix Dumb Financial Decisions

Summary

The Ramsey Show – “Big Paychecks Won’t Fix Dumb Financial Decisions”

Air Date: October 29, 2025
Host: George Kamel
Co-host: Jade Warshaw
Network: Ramsey Network

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show centers on a fundamental Ramsey principle: “Big paychecks won’t fix dumb financial decisions.” Hosts George Kamel and Jade Warshaw field calls from listeners struggling with financial stress—from high incomes drowning in debt, to adult children relying on parents, to challenging family entanglements over money. Key themes include budgeting for all income levels, setting and enforcing boundaries (especially with family), and why true financial peace comes from wise decisions, not just making more money.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. High Income ≠ Financial Health: Budgeting and the Cycle of Debt

(00:40–08:07) Peter from Philadelphia

• Situation: Despite making $126,000 base—and up to $180,000 with overtime—Peter found himself considering bankruptcy over what began as ~$25k in debt. As the call unfolds, his true debt load (car loan, pension loan, credit cards) nears $56,000.
• Key Insight: Even large incomes can’t overcome disorganization, overspending, and poor choices. Lack of a budget and honest self-assessment leads to financial chaos.
  • “America just lost all empathy here. You make $130,000 and you’re calling in trying to file bankruptcy over $20,000?!” — George Camel [01:29]
• Advice:
  • Start budgeting immediately—using EveryDollar (gifted to caller).
  • List all debts and expenses for an honest reality check.
  • Use bank statements, not guesses, to spot overspending.
  • Cut lifestyle, stop eating out, and commit to becoming debt free in under 22 months.
• Notable Quote:
  • “I don’t think bankruptcy is your answer. I think you are the answer, Peter.” — George Camel [08:07]

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2. Family Support, Boundaries, and Resentment

(10:46–19:38) Tiffany from NYC – Supporting her mother-in-law

• Situation: Tiffany fears inheriting financial responsibility for her 60-year-old, nearly blind mother-in-law, who is working part-time and has no retirement savings.
• Key Insight: Clarity and boundaries matter more than assumptions. Direct, honest family conversations about expectations prevent long-term resentment.
  • “If I’m paying your bills, I’m going to be in charge of ... what you’re paying for those bills.” — George Camel [16:44]
• Advice:
  • Get crystal clear on the mother-in-law’s expectations.
  • If ongoing support is expected, demand access to her full financial picture.
  • Prioritize helping her be independent; don’t become the “Bank of Tiffany.”
  • Don’t sacrifice the young family’s own financial goals out of guilt.
• Notable Quote:
  • “You have the opportunity to jump in there and set those expectations. ... Because a lot can happen in ten years financially.” — Jade Warshaw [18:56]

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3. “Big Numbers, Big Mistakes”: High Income, High Burn Rate

(21:57–30:49) Carol from Toronto – $400k HELOC on $2.5M Home

• Situation: After pandemic setbacks, Carol’s family (income ~$500k/year before taxes) is overwhelmed by a $400k HELOC and $750k mortgage, with three kids nearing college age.
• Key Insight: Wealthy households can still “burn” through enormous sums by living beyond their means. Big incomes breed big mistakes if not managed intentionally.
  • “You just make decisions with bigger zeroes on the end.” — Jade Warshaw [30:42]
• Advice:
  • If HELOC is more than half your annual income, roll into Baby Step 6 (pay with mortgage).
  • Avoid merging debts if it removes urgency; keep some separated to attack quickly.
  • Aggressively pay down HELOC in 3 years, then mortgage—don’t kick the can down the road.
  • Adjust lifestyle: Private school, high monthly spending needs to be trimmed.
• Notable Quote:
  • “Even with 25 grand a month, you can see how quickly it can disappear ...the cleaners, the private school, the HELOC, the mortgage.” — George Camel [31:01]

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4. When Helping Backfires: Family, Business, and Enabling

(33:33–39:56) Chase in Knoxville – Debt-Free, But Family In Business Issues

• Situation: Chase, now debt-free, struggles with burnout and contemplates shutting down a side business where he employs his financially irresponsible parents.
• Key Insight: Hiring family can cross boundaries—especially if you hope to “fix” their money habits. You can’t want success more than they do.
  • “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make them drink.” — Jade Warshaw [39:37]
• Advice:
  • Don’t link your financial health to relatives’ choices.
  • If the business isn’t worth your peace, shut it down.
  • Offer coaching only if family is open to receive it; otherwise, protect the relationship by stepping back.

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5. Young People & Temptation of High-Paying but Unfulfilling Jobs

(40:36–44:41) Brennan, age 20 – $100k+ job vs. college

• Situation: A 20-year-old earns $100k traveling for large-scale HVAC but wants to trade money for potential college (in California) and a lifestyle with more free time.
• Key Insight: Early in adult life, use financial strength to pursue passions, but always avoid debt.
  • “You’re not going to regret going to college debt free and doing the thing you really want to do.” — George Camel [43:00]
• Advice:
  • Cash flow college if you’re sure on your goal.
  • Only consider college if it’s tuition-free and aligns with true calling.

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6. "Why Can't I Make Myself Care?" – Motivation and Mechanics of Debt Payoff

(44:41–51:44) Brian in Topeka, KS – $90K in Truck & Camper Debt

• Situation: Brian, a traveling worker earning $110k, faces $90k in vehicle/camper debt. He struggles to stay motivated to attack the debt, despite clear financial goals.
• Key Insight: Lasting change comes from deep personal “whys,” not logic alone; material upgrades often threaten progress.
  • “A 20-year-old does not need a $60,000 truck to do any job.” — George Camel [48:53]
• Advice:
  • Identify your true internal motivation (the “why” behind your goals).
  • Sell depreciating assets (truck/camper) and use the resulting margin to pay off debt faster—potentially in 6 months, not a year.
• Notable Moment:
  • Hosts affirm: There’s no shame in resetting for faster, deeper progress early in life.

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7. Financial Entanglements & Enabling Parents

(54:49–63:03) Micah in South Carolina – Mom in Debt, Tangled Family Land

• Situation: Micah helps his disabled, Social Security-dependent mother, who’s mired in credit card and property debt, with complicated family land ownership and uncooperative siblings.
• Key Insight: Adult children can only help so much; you can’t “fix” others’ choices, and enabling prolongs dysfunction.
  • “I think you just need to ... let them lay in the bed that they made.” — Jade Warshaw [62:01]
• Advice:
  • Prioritize mom’s food, housing, and medical safety (“four walls”) before debt.
  • If she can’t pay minimums, she may have to default.
  • Selling (or dividing) inherited land is a potential, though emotionally fraught, solution.

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8. Risky Investing vs. Slow Wealth

(65:59–69:33) Andre, age 21 – $75k in Cash: Where to Invest Riskily?

• Situation: Andre asks where to put $75,000 in “risky” investments.
• Key Insight: Youth and cash are not license for recklessness. Ramsey philosophy values “little by little,” steady growth over high risk.
  • “I’m trusting Solomon over some dude on TikTok.” — George Camel [69:25]
• Advice:
  • Don’t chase fast returns.
  • Consider index funds, business startups in areas you know, or investing in yourself—not crypto or single stocks.

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9. Career Swaps & Financial Trade-Offs

(70:11–75:03) Erin in Denver – Husband Wants to Leave Law Enforcement for Helicopter Pilot Career

• Situation: After 20 years in law enforcement ($140k/year), Erin’s husband wants to pursue his dream as a helicopter pilot—at a substantial pay cut (~$70k/year as a beginner).
• Key Insight: Major transitions require solid preparation—or resentment, shame, and regret may follow.
  • “If you pull from your retirement and for some reason it goes south, ... this is not going to be a good deal.” — Jade Warshaw [74:38]
• Advice:
  • Don’t raid retirement accounts or home equity to bridge income gap.
  • Save the transition fund ($70k+) in cash before making the leap.

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10. The Boomerang Generation: Adult Kids at Home

(77:37–84:03) Jane in Scranton – Son Moves Home, Won’t Help Financially

• Situation: Jane’s 29-year-old son, earning over $100k as a government employee, moves in to pay off student loans but resists paying his “share.”
• Key Insight: Supporting capable adult children isn’t generosity—it’s enabling lifelong immaturity.
  • “You don’t need to live with me to pay off $35,000 of debt. You’ve got plenty of income.” — Jade Warshaw [81:07]
• Advice:
  • If resources are tight, it’s fair to require rent.
  • Set a strict, time-limited runway for debt payoff.
  • Boundaries are necessary even if adult children object.

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11. When Parents Are the Ones at Risk: Multi-Generational Households

(117:35–125:51) Rachel in Minneapolis – Helping Mom with Mortgage

• Situation: Rachel, 29, pays half her 62-year-old mother’s mortgage, wondering whether to continue post–debt freedom.
• Key Insight: Love is not rescuing; failing to set boundaries risks two generations’ futures.
  • “Planning to be a burden is a bad plan. And that’s what she’s doing.” — George Camel [120:07]
• Advice:
  • Don’t let guilt trap you indefinitely.
  • Encourage and empower parents to downsize, increase income, and maintain independence.
  • State boundaries clearly and early—don’t become the retirement plan.

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Memorable Quotes

• “Big paychecks won’t fix dumb financial decisions.” — Show Theme
• “Debt is not a shortcut. It’s not the answer. You are.” — George Camel [08:07]
• “Don’t just sit back idly, go be about some business and get some information.” — Jade Warshaw [18:56]
• “You just make decisions with bigger zeroes on the end.” — Jade Warshaw [30:42]
• “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make them drink.” — Jade Warshaw [39:37]
• “I don’t think bankruptcy is your answer. I think you are the answer.” — George Camel [08:07]

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Standout Segments (Timestamps)

• Peter & the Myth of Paycheck Rescue – [00:40–08:07]
• Tiffany on Aging Parents & Boundaries – [10:46–19:38]
• Carol’s HELOC Crisis at High Income – [21:57–30:49]
• Family Enables Family (Chase’s Business) – [33:33–39:56]
• 20-Year-Olds & Career Choices – [40:36–44:41]
• Brian’s Truck Debt – [44:41–51:44]
• Multi-generational Money Mess (Micah, Rachel, Jane) – [54:49–63:03], [77:37–84:03], [117:35–125:51]
• Risky Investments for Young Cash Savers – [65:59–69:33]
• Law Enforcement Career Leap – [70:11–75:03]

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Tone & Language

The show’s tone was direct, friendly, and at times, playful. Both George and Jade balance tough love with empathy—expect straight talk, a bit of humor, and encouragement. Listeners are challenged to face the facts, take ownership, and embrace proven, sometimes difficult, steps toward financial freedom.

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Conclusion and Takeaways

This episode drives home that income is secondary to financial discipline and smart, value-driven choices. Whether making $30,000 or $300,000, without budgeting, boundaries, and a deep “why” you’ll find yourself stuck—and sometimes, making the same mistakes, just on a larger scale. The Ramsey approach is not about shaming mistakes, but about empowering each listener to make different (often harder) choices today for a future that’s truly free.

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For more information or to call in for advice, visit www.ramseysolutions.com or tune in weekdays from 2–5 p.m. ET.

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(Ads, promos, and outro material not included.)

Transcript

[Host/Announcer]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[George Camel]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show. I'm Ramsey personality George Camel joined by best selling author Jade Warshaw. We're taking your calls at Triple H, 825-5225. Peter is in Philadelphia to kick us off. What's going on? Peter?

[Host/Announcer]

Hi.

[Caller]

How are you? Just stressed about bills and thinking about bankruptcy.

[George Camel]

Oh, man. How much debt do you have?

[Caller]

A little over 25,000.

[George Camel]

What kind of debt is that?

[Caller]

Closer to 30. Car personal loan, hospital bills, gas bill.

[George Camel]

And what's left on the car?

[Caller]

The car's 10, the personal loan is 11. And that's, that's just, you know, like personal. Just because I'm trying, I'm trying to get myself out of a jam so I go back into it.

[George Camel]

You're in a cycle. What do you make, right?

[Caller]

126 base salary, dude. And I think last year I pulled in about 180 for overtime.

[George Camel]

America just lost all empathy here. You make $130,000 and you're calling in trying to file bankruptcy over 20.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. What else is going on? What else is eating your lunch? Because it's not, it's not $25,000 of debt.

[George Camel]

You could pay off this debt in less time.

[Caller]

I mean, I do have other things. I mean, I take care of my kids.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, tell us about that. Because right now we're trying to understand where is the problem.

[Caller]

Well, so I don't have a court order on the kids. I just, you know, whatever they need and whatever their mom needs, I just take care of.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's true. But again, if you were, if you.

[Caller]

Were, I'm not gonna lie, Misspending.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay? That's what it is. Because even if you were married with the kids in the house taking care of them, 100, you know, $125,000 income would still be a great income. So it's not the kids. It sounds like you're overspending in other areas. Do you have any kind of budget that you're on?

[Caller]

No, not really.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, there's, there's the problem. So I guarantee you today, if you were to just do a, an old school budget on a piece of paper, if you just said, all right, here's the money, I take home my, my, my net amount when I, when I take home my check, and now I write down what I'm spending Money on. And I'm just going to go back through my bank statement. I think you would see the problem. Are you dating anybody?

[Caller]

No.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so then you're just spending money on yourself. Is it food? Are you doing a lot of door?

[George Camel]

If I looked at your bank statement, what would I see as the number one thing that you're overspending on?

[Caller]

I don't know. Maybe fast food? Yeah, I guess. Going out fast food, huh?

[Jade Warshaw]

You go out with your buddies, you guys go have some drinks, anything like that?

[Caller]

I don't have time for that. I work too much over time.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so here's what George and I are saying. If you make 100, and I mean, we could talk about taxes and nickel and diamond, but essentially if you made a hundred thousand dollars a year, 126, you could live on 100 and pay this debt off right? At the basic level in less than a year. Can you live on $100,000 a year?

[Caller]

I think so.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think so too. You're a single guy. I mean. Yes. You've got your kids to take care of. How many too? How many?

[Caller]

Three.

[Jade Warshaw]

Three. Okay. How old are they?

[Caller]

16, 20 and nine.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, and the 20 year old, is she in college?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

What do you put towards that every month?

[Caller]

About 600.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And what are you taking home? Like what ends up in your paycheck? Is it like $8,000?

[Caller]

Oh, that's right. I also have a pension loan now.

[George Camel]

A pension loan.

[Jade Warshaw]

Tell us about that.

[Caller]

Yeah. Oh, that. I didn't. I totally forgot about that because that comes out of my check automatically. So that I think I have about, probably about 24,000 left to pay on that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, how much comes out of Your.

[Caller]

Check is 463 every two weeks.

[Jade Warshaw]

What caused you to take that pension loan?

[Caller]

Oh, that's a long story.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, what about credit cards? Are you using those?

[George Camel]

No. Oh.

[Caller]

Oh, glad you said that. So there's a. I got about 6,000 on.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

Capital One.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Now it's starting to come into view.

[George Camel]

We went from 25 up to 50. Now we're at 56. Anything else you want to tell us about, like hand on the Bible, what else do you have going on?

[Jade Warshaw]

Student loans.

[Caller]

That's. I forgot about the Capital One card.

[Jade Warshaw]

Did you forget about student loans a year ago?

[Caller]

No, I don't have any student.

[Jade Warshaw]

Thank God.

[George Camel]

Is any of this in collections?

[Caller]

The Capital One card.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller]

And the gas bill.

[George Camel]

All right, are you ready to like take control of this as a grown man with three about grown kids and you're like Dude, I'm ready to clean up my life. Cause if you're ready, we can help you. If not, call us back when you want.

[Caller]

I got it. Yeah, I am.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller]

I'm just too stressed out.

[George Camel]

Starting tonight, you're gonna make this budget, and it's gonna give you so much peace just to have the numbers laid out in front of you. Even if it's scary. Even to go, ugh, I don't like what I see. At least it's not the boogeyman on all the unknowns. I'd rather you be scared of the facts than the unknowns. So we're gonna gift you every dollar to actually make the Budget. It's a digital app you can download, and you're gonna list out your income for the month. And if that's 7,500, you list that in the income section below that, you're gonna list every expense you can think of, including your minimum debt payments. And what you're gonna see very quickly is if you're going over budget every month or under budget, and you should have wiggle room to use that money to throw with the debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I want you to use your bank statement as a guide when you do this, because I kind of feel like you have something that's living in your head of what you spend versus what's actual reality. So if you don't use that bank statement, you're going to say that you spend $400 on food. Right. When the reality is you might spend like eleven hundred dollars on. On food. Right? So go back, get the bank statement for September, and use that as a guide when you make this budget going into November. Okay, that's going to let you see. Okay, now. Now you're going to see. Oh, y pension thing came out. Now you're going to see. Oh, yeah, this is what I spend on gas. And it's going to take you. You know, you could do it. If I felt like you had an accurate picture, you could probably do it in 30 minutes. But I really think you need to look at these numbers. It's going to take you an hour or so to get this done, but it's going to give you, like George said, so, so much peace. And the other question is, are you investing at all?

[Caller]

No, nothing serious. Just pennies on Robinhood.

[George Camel]

Oh, boy. Okay, let's delete Robinhood for now. Can you promise me that? Yeah. Okay. We're not really building any wealth over here. We're just wasting time.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what do you get every year when you do your taxes? What kind of refund do you get?

[Caller]

I don't. Last year was the first time I owed.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, good. Yeah. The budget. I mean, it's the blood work. It tells all. It tells everything that's wrong with you.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Camel]

So once you do this budget, you're gonna figure out your main expenses. Here's like, food, utilities, housing, transportation, insurance, minimum debt payments. Anything beyond that, you're gonna get real judicious and cut out. And that means eating out. That's got to go because we got. We got to clean this mess up, and we don't want it to take 10 years. Let's do this in 18 months. Does that sound better?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Well, think about this. You got 56,000 in debt, let's say just using ballpark numbers, and you throw 2,500amonth at this, you're done in 22 months, less than two years. That sounds great, right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And we avoid bankruptcy, which is going to implode our life for the next seven years and hurt your ability to get jobs, to rent apartments. It's going to hurt you in a huge way to file bankruptcy, especially over a. Over debts these small.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And so I don't think bankruptcy is your answer. I think you are the answer, Peter. So hang on the line. We're going to gift you every dollar. Make that budget tonight. It's going to give you a whole lot of clarity and the new every dollar in that onboarding, that first 15 minutes, it's going to show you how much margin you will create if you decide to commit. And so it's like we're going to be in your pocket, guiding you along the way on this journey. And we are rooting for you, man. We think you're worth it. Those kids are worth it. And you're very capable. Someone's willing to pay you $130,000 a year. You are smart enough to make a budget and get out of this debt once and for all. But first, you got to stop going into it. Debt is not a shortcut. It's not the answer, man, you are. If you ever googled yourself, here's the two worst things you can find. Photo evidence of your worst haircut and your personal data floating around on some sketchy website. I mean, the bangs were regrettable, but your info being bought, sold, and reposted all over the World Wide Web, even worse. And trust me, it happens all the time. And that's why I use delete me, you guys. Over 20 billion records have been leaked in recent years, and that info gets pulled into these people search sites. So stuff like your name, number, address, even your kids names is out there for anyone to see. But if you're trying to clean up your personal data yourself, good luck. It can be a part time job just submitting these opt out requests. So if you don't want your personal info out there, you should be using Delete me too. Delete Me has real people who track down your data, remove it from these shady sites and make sure it stays removed. Plus you get a report from Deleteme showing exactly what was found and what's been deleted. So take back your privacy with Delete Me right now. Ramsey listeners get 20% off at JoinDeleteMe.com Ramsey with code Ramsey at checkout. So do that today. JoinDeleteMe.com Ramsey code Ramsey the all new everydollar is here. You've heard us talk about it. And now it's way more than just our world class. There's a ton of advanced features to help you make faster progress with your money. And the average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. So start every dollar for free today. Get it in the app store or Google Play. Tiffany is up next in New York City. What's going on Tiffany?

[Caller]

Hi George and Jake. Can you hear me well?

[George Camel]

Yes. What's going on?

[Caller]

Okay, perfect. So my mother in law, she is currently 60 years old. She has nothing saved for ret. She's pretty much banking on the idea that my husband and I would take care of her when she's physically unable to work anymore.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is she, what's her, what's her health like now at 60?

[Caller]

So she is blind in one eye. So she used to work at a nail salon but because after losing sight in one eye she is unable to work there.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

She is currently working as ironically as a caregiver.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. What does she earn? Do you know?

[Caller]

I don't know the exact amount but I do know it covers basically her necessities. Rent, utilities, food and transportation.

[Jade Warshaw]

So has she is how long has she been single? How long has your father in law been out of the picture?

[Caller]

So father in law still in the picture but they're separated. They're divorced.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, and how long, but how long has that been?

[Caller]

I would say over 20 years.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so she's had, My point is she's had time to adjust to life on her own and you're just saying she's, she just does the bare minimum. Is that what you're.

[Caller]

Yeah. So pretty much she was good up until she couldn't work as a nail technician anymore. And then with her current job now, she can only take on so many hours because she says physically she can't work full time. So basically she's just doing what she can. But I'm just worried because she has. She really has nothing saved up for retirement. She did have a. I think she had like 20k saved up, but then when she was out of the job, after she lost her job working as a nail tech, she kind of went through all that. So she's basically at nothing now.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's your husband say about all this? What's he think?

[Caller]

So their relationship is a little bit of an interesting one. He recently got back into my husband's life. I would say since 2020, their relationship was a little bit strained because when his parents did divorce, she left the picture. And my husband was. I believe he was a teen when this had happened. So she only recently got back into the picture around the time my husband and I were dating.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow, Interesting.

[George Camel]

So is he wanting to help her at all in any way, or is he just. Are you guys wanting to set up a boundary to say, hey, we can't support you in any way?

[Caller]

I think he's at a situation where, of course, he doesn't want his mother out on the street, you know, if something, God forbid, something were to happen. But he also would. We both kind of agree that there would be a lot of resentment towards her. We have to bear all the financial responsibilities.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's her living situation? Is she a renter? Does she have a house? How does she live?

[Caller]

So she. Yes. So she is renting, but she's renting with two other roommates.

[Jade Warshaw]

Great.

[Caller]

So.

[George Camel]

So it's like Golden Girls over there or what?

[Caller]

Pretty much.

[Jade Warshaw]

That is awesome.

[Caller]

Rent is her rent $1,000? So she explicitly. It is New York City. So rent expensive.

[Jade Warshaw]

So she has $1,000 for rent. What's your financial situation, Tiffany? How are you and your husband doing?

[Caller]

I think we're doing pretty well. We do have our first child that was born May of last year. So the only thing is, of course, with rent that we're paying, and then there's daycare costs, unless we want to give up the, I guess, our retirement. I feel like. I don't know if it's selfish of us for not wanting to give her money on the side for her retirement.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's not, but let's even see if it's necessary. So the questions that I would have, if I were in your shoes, I'd want to get more Facts. So first off, I'd want to make sure. I'm not assuming that she wants, you know, me to take care of her. I want to know point blank. And so I'd probably sit down and ask the question and.

[Caller]

Oh, no. Yeah. So when the situation happened, when she had lost her job earlier and she had to get surgery, eye surgery, around that time when she was out of the job, she did come to my husband to ask for money, just on.

[Jade Warshaw]

A one time thing, or say, hey, you're going to be the one taking care of me during retirement. I hope you know those are two different things.

[Caller]

My husband set a boundary. He said I was. He was going to only give her money for three months, and he had expected her to get back on her feet after, you know, she recovered. And he said that was it. I'm only going to give you money for three months, and then you're sort of on your own. But of course, he, he's a softy in the sense that if he was, you know, out of money and he may end up on the street, he wouldn't let that happen.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sure. Because here's what I'm. I'm gonna just tell you where my mind is. What you said is different from taking care of me in retirement. Those are two different things. It's one thing to have had surgery, be going through a tough time trying to figure out where you can work because you lost your job because of your vision. Right. Though there's that. And then there's, you're taking care of me in retirement, which is going to happen maybe 20 years from now. So I'd want to get clarity on that. I don't think you have clarity there. I think you kind of are making an assumption, and I can see why you're jumping to that. I can see why you're doing that, but I'd want to know that. And then if it does seem like, hey, no, this really is the, the expectation, I've gotten clarity on that, then I'd want to know, okay, since you're expecting that, then that gives me a right to look into your finances. Right, George? Like, you better be telling me, what's your Social Security going to be? What do you pay? Show me your bills. Right.

[George Camel]

If I'm paying your bills, I'm going to be in charge of how much you're paying for those bills and what you're spending is. So that's, that's part of this deal. But I would really push to have her live an independent life, and that's going to take some coaching. And I don't think you should get in the middle of it if it's his mom. Right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Okay, so it's gonna sound like, you know, we love you. We want to make sure that you're taken care of. We also need to have a plan for you to live independently. And right now, we can't financially support you. We got a lot going on. We live in a high cost of living area. We have a baby. We're paying for daycare. So here's what we can do. We want to help you help yourself with whatever resources we can to get you into a sustainable place. But we cannot and will not just support you for the rest of your life and cover all of your bills. We can't do that. And then it's on her to figure it out.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Because there's still time, there's here for her to create something for herself. And if you guys play a part in helping her do that, I think that's a wonderful thing because financial literacy and financial illiteracy is a very real thing. So if you can help her understand, okay, you're 60. You've still got 10 years to really make something happen for yourself. Here's how you do it. I think that's a wonderful thing. But all that is going to start with you getting clarity on really what the expectation is from her. And then you clearly setting expectations on your end and setting those boundaries on your end. And that's what I would do.

[George Camel]

And if it gets to the point where she is truly disabled, then she can get on disability. And eventually maybe she'll get some Social Security if she decides to take that at 62 or 3 or whatever. And so we need to show her the options that are at her disposal versus her relying on you. And you becoming bank of Tiffany is gonna be a bad plan. Cause you're right. It's gonna create resentment and it's gonna create entitlement on her part to where now she goes, well, why even work full time? I can work part time or maybe not work at all if they're just gonna float my life. So that's this SC slippery slope that we're headed towards.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's true.

[George Camel]

So that's gonna be you and your husband coming together, making a plan, sticking to it, spit shake, saying, I know you're a softie. You can't give in. When she goes, yeah, but everything I've done for you, it's like, hey, yes, I'm grateful for what you've done and we can't take care of you for the next 20 years.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm just glad that you're talking about it, Tiffany, because the truth is a lot of us experience these, we start to see these cracks financially, expose themselves in family members or in our aging parents. And it's kind of like we just it happen from afar. And you have the opportunity to jump in there and set those expectations. You have the opportunity to jump in there and get the facts and hopefully try to set them on the right path. Because a lot can happen in 10 years. Financially, you can either dig a deeper hole or you can actually get yourself on track and create some form of a nest egg, something that's sustainable. So if you're listening and you're seeing this play out in your life like so many of us are, don't just sit back idly, go be about some business and get some information.

[George Camel]

And if you are that older parent, please don't do this to your kids. Don't be a burden. I want them to like when my parents pass away, I want to grieve how much I love them. Not goodness gracious, at least they're off my payroll. And that's what, that's the resentment it creates when you put this on your kids.

[Host/Announcer]

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[George Camel]

Attorney advertising Guardian Litigation Group LLP not available in Minnesota and Oregon. Results vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed. Debt settlement may negatively affect credit and not all creditors will negotiate or settle. Savings vary and may be taxable. Please review terms for more information. Carol is up next in Toronto. What's going On Carol.

[Caller]

Hi there. Thank you so much for taking my call. Jordan, Jade, I do just want to say too really quickly, thank you guys so much for what you do. I found the podcast two months ago, and it's given me so much direction in my life, and I just think you guys are changing life. So thank you for that.

[George Camel]

Oh, thank you. Thanks for listening. We're glad it's been helpful for you.

[Caller]

Yes. And great so far. Lots of work to do, but. So we had a series of kind of unfortunate events that took place over the pandemic, and it caused us to take on quite a bit of bad debt. So we made improvements on the home with plans of investments coming through, and those investments did not to come fruition and essentially went to zero. So since then, we've been really treating our HELOC like a giant credit card prior to me finding this podcast. So I'm in Canada, so our mortgage is up for renewal in June. I'm in Baby Step 2, and the amount of the HELOC is so overwhelming that I feel like I'm not sure whether I should be rolling it into our mortgage in June or whether we should be continuing for the next five or six years on paying it down. Down. Keeping in mind that I have, you know, three kids who are looking to go to university in the next five to eight years.

[Jade Warshaw]

So.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much is the HELOC?

[Caller]

So the HELOC is at 400,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, my gosh. What's your income?

[Caller]

So our income. Well, before or after tax? We've got some pretty heavy taxes before taxes. Oh, before. About 500 a year.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, my gosh, woman.

[Caller]

Yeah, you couldn't.

[George Camel]

Cash flow. The renovations, making half a million dollars.

[Caller]

Yeah, I. But after tax, it's only about 200. 300 a year is what we take home.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

Well, what's your, like, it's significant tax.

[Jade Warshaw]

What do you owe on the house, aside from this?

[Caller]

Yep. So we have a mortgage for 750,000, and that's at 3.6%, but the house is valued at 2.5 million.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, what's the. What's the percentage on the HELOC? What's the interest?

[Caller]

It's 4.5.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And then what other debt do you have outside of the mortgage and heloc?

[Caller]

That's it.

[George Camel]

Okay. I thought you were going to hit me with a bunch of consumer debt, all right?

[Caller]

No, because it's all rolled into one. And I think I've never heard. I've been binging this, and I've never heard how you attack just like one big.

[George Camel]

Yeah, generally. Here's our parameter. With HELOCs, if it's over half your annual income, we say, hey, roll it into your baby step six, which is when you pay off the mortgage. So that's when you would pay it versus in baby step two with other consumer debt. Since you guys have no consumer debt, do you have an emergency fund? Do you have savings?

[Caller]

We just started that. We have some education savings for about 50 grand for the kids right now. And then just retirement fund. We have maybe a couple hundred thousand, but other than that, not really.

[George Camel]

Do you have anything in cash? Like if you had an emergency today, how would you pay for it?

[Caller]

I already did baby step one, so I have. We probably have about 5,000 in cash.

[George Camel]

Okay. But your next paycheck is going to be sizable. You're going to make like what, 25 grand on the next check?

[Caller]

Yeah, like per month. My husband and I are. Yeah, we bring home around 25 grand a month.

[George Camel]

Okay. How much of that could you throw into a savings account next month? For example?

[Caller]

If I wasn't putting it towards the HELOC, then probably seven grand.

[George Camel]

So you guys are spending close to 20 grand a month.

[Caller]

I'd say our spending kids are in private school. The interest on the heloc is about 1800. So yeah, like I'd say we spend around 12 grand a month on.

[Jade Warshaw]

The.

[George Camel]

Private school for all three kids.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Man, that's, that's a real. That's. Your burn rate is high here. You've got a lot of expenses going on. I'm guessing we're not going to put them in public school to clean up this mess.

[Caller]

Well, they're almost out so into like to middle school. So that's going to change and get better over the next couple years. I just, I didn't want to feel like I was rolling the HELOC into the mortgage and kicking the can down the road and whether I should, you know, roll some of it in and then keep some of it and attack that really fast. I'm not sure.

[George Camel]

We kind of like them broken up just for, I mean, is the HELOC going to have a variable rate here?

[Jade Warshaw]

Ask the same thing.

[Caller]

It's currently variable, but again, in June we signed the next five year mortgage. So it would lock in at whatever the interest rate is, which is.

[George Camel]

God bless the strangeness of Canada. Every five years we reset the mortgage rates.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's going to be the new mortgage rate when you renew in June? Because it's going to, it's 3.6. Now what's it going to go to?

[Caller]

Probably go down. So between 2.9 and 3.2.

[Jade Warshaw]

Interesting. So if you, have you done the math, if you, if you did that, what percentage of your income would this mortgage be?

[Caller]

So that would move us from the 25% to about 29 to 30% of house expenses on a 30 year.

[Jade Warshaw]

Or are you doing a 15 year?

[Caller]

We haven't discovered that yet. My call is tomorrow with the bank. Okay.

[George Camel]

My guess is, well, they don't do the 30 and 15. You have like a five year old.

[Caller]

Oh, and it rolls, you know, you still do like a 15 or 20 year, but every five years you revisit it and you get to redo it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, how often does the rate on the HELOC variate?

[Caller]

It's variable. So was high every month. Oh, years. But dropping now it's every month that the interest comes out. But then just depending on what the, you know, bank of Canada does, the interest rate goes up and down.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

If there was a world where you locked this in at 2.9 and it was 25% of your take home pay and it kind of fit those same parameters, it wouldn't bother me. I don't mind it being separate though, for the idea of you really getting after it. I'm afraid that if you roll it in, you won't get after it the way you need to and you'll kick the can down the road.

[Caller]

Okay. Okay. So there is maybe a point in which some of it we roll in as long as we keep that 25% into the home from our income.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, the rule of thumb here is you don't want your mortgage to be any more than 25% of your take home pay. So after taxes, you don't have to think about insurance and investing and all that jazz. I'm just talking about after taxes. You don't want it to be more than 25% with all in with HOA fees, insurance, all of that. Because once you get above that, it can be too much of your world. So that's kind of what I was looking at at 4.5 on 400,000. Yeah, I wouldn't want to see that. I wouldn't want that on a variable rate. Let me just say I just feel.

[George Camel]

Like I'm less emotionally attached to interest rates. I could give a rip at this point. I just want to see you guys plow through these debts. And so personally I would keep the HELOC separate and make an aggressive goal to pay this off and let's say three years. It's 133 grand a year. That's 11 grand a month. Come hell or high water, we're going to throw 11 grand a month at the HELOC. Is that something you guys could do?

[Caller]

Yeah, I think we could. I just needed to know. Just, I've heard that last week it was like, if it's half more than half this, you roll it in. I just wasn't sure if there was a difference.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's not about rolling it in, it's about where you're attacking it.

[George Camel]

So the timing of it. And so for you guys, since you don't have a consumer debt, you're just looking at these two debts going, what do I do with these? I would just plow through. If you can do more than 11 grand a month, be my guest. I'm just throwing a random goal out there. You and your husband should sit down tonight and go, we got to clean this up. And to that end, I might delay some of the kids stuff. Like, we got time to catch up on that. Right now we've got this thing eating our lunch with these giant mortgages and heloc. So I would work to knock that out and then knock the mortgage out, because now, you know, if we can do 403 years, well, 750, we could probably knock that out in less than six years. Okay, so think about that. In nine years, you've got the kids off to college, right?

[Caller]

Yep.

[George Camel]

And you have no mortgage, no heloc. So that's the kind of future I want you guys to start envisioning and then reverse engineer it to go. Okay, what do we got to do today, this month to get there?

[Caller]

Awesome. Thank you so much.

[George Camel]

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for the call.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's a good question.

[George Camel]

Love hearing from our Canadian listeners, just to know that there, Canada has its own problems. You know, people are making crazy decisions all over the world.

[Jade Warshaw]

All over the world.

[George Camel]

But America goes first. We're like, you know what? We're going to show you the way with the HELOC to do all the renovations and go into all the consumer debt. But the good news is they have an amazing income.

[Jade Warshaw]

They do. And that, yeah, it's hard to, like.

[George Camel]

Feel bad when you're making half a million even after taxes. $300,000 dollars. Quite the shovel.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

But you can see you just, you know, make decisions with bigger zeros on the end when it comes to.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's very relative in that way. But, yeah, this is. Yeah, I'm Waiting for more money, more problems.

[George Camel]

Yeah, but here's the thing. You gotta just, you know, baby steps, one thing at a time. And also, what can we do to decrease our lifestyle and expenses? Because even with 25 grand, you can see how quickly can disappear.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

When you got, you know, the cleaners, the private school, this, that, the other, the heloc, the mortgage, it just eats away at even the highest incomes. And so you got to get control, live on less than you make. And if you get a raise, ignore it and just invest the difference. Give more, save more. That's the key to becoming truly wealthy. And I think Carol and her husband will get there in no time. Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

[Host/Announcer]

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. Yeah.

[George Camel]

And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

[Host/Announcer]

Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long term disability insurance.

[George Camel]

Yeah. It's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work, so it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet.

[Host/Announcer]

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[George Camel]

And that's why Zander is our go to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling.

[Host/Announcer]

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[George Camel]

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[Host/Announcer]

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

[George Camel]

Chase is in Knoxville. Up next. Chase, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Caller]

Hey, how's it going?

[George Camel]

Great. How are you, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Very good. Much better than I deserve, first off. But thanks to y' all's program. So I got a two parter. First part is I've been Gazelle intense for a while. We're actually debt free. Home, cars, everything.

[Host/Announcer]

Wow.

[George Camel]

Way to go. Yeah, that's awesome.

[Caller]

I'm a little. I'm a little tired at this point because I've been working two to three jobs and just kind of figuring out when to put Paul's on, you know, extra income and just kind of relax for a little while.

[George Camel]

Yesterday.

[Caller]

Well, yeah, it's just, I guess the scary part because we're single income right now, so part of me is just.

[George Camel]

Like, you're in baby step seven. You have no mortgage payment, right?

[Caller]

Correct. But I mean, we do want to move from where we're at now that I guess that's the quick answer of now is the time to stop that.

[Jade Warshaw]

How long did it take you to accomplish this? How long have you been in this grind?

[Caller]

Yeah, it was kind of on and off for two years because of the child and you know, just some complications around birth and stuff. So that's, that's why mama hasn't went back to work. So.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, that's fine.

[Caller]

But yeah, it's been, I guess on me for almost two years at this point, so.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

So like I said, just kind of want to hit pause on some of those. And that leads me in the second part. I've got a small business on the side that I have some employees that I don't know how to coach because I do a little financial coaching. And they seem to be misbehaving with all the money that I pay them, even though I gave them the position to kind of help them get out of debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

Personally. Personally misbehaving with the money or like as a part of the company misbehaving with the.

[Caller]

No, personally misbehaving. Just buying vehicles they don't need. Buying recreational vehicles.

[George Camel]

And these are just that. How'd you find these people?

[Caller]

Family.

[George Camel]

Wait, they. They're actual akin to you?

[Caller]

Yes, yes.

[George Camel]

Like cousins, uncles, aunts. Who are we talking?

[Caller]

Parents.

[George Camel]

You hired your parents for your small business and they're going out and taking on debt and you're like, well, that's. That wasn't the intended goal. I was, I gave them the job. So you gave them the job even though they really weren't qualified to help them out financially, quote unquote? No, they're.

[Caller]

They're very qualified for the business. However, it's just the, they're adding small personal loans at this point to, to try to justify moving payments around. But other than that, it's.

[Jade Warshaw]

How many people is this. It's your parents. Is it anybody else?

[Caller]

No, it's, it's just a business that I had started. It became overwhelming for me, like I said, with the, the newborn.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, no, I'm talking about the, the part you said about. Okay, it's two, there's two things we're talking about. You hired your parents to work in the business. You said they, that's all good, but over here you found out that they're spending their money in a way that you don't like. Correct. That has nothing to do with the business. That's just their personal life. But you're saying, hey, I know that's not very wise. I'd like to be able to help them out. Right.

[George Camel]

You feel like you're enabling them.

[Caller]

How do I go about it? Of like, grace. Of like, I'm saying either I shut the business down and just walk away from it or just keep it open and kind of guide them a little bit.

[Jade Warshaw]

I don't think, I don't think one, I mean, I, I, this is my perspective. I don't think that one has to do with another. You're not enabling them because they're doing a job and they're getting paid for the job. Right. It's not like they're, you're not just giving them money because they asked for money. They're working and you're paying them wages. Correct?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Jade Warshaw]

So that's okay. Now you're talking about shutting down your business. What's that about? Because don't tell me that you're shutting down your business because your parents don't know how to spend their paycheck. That's a, that feels odd.

[Caller]

It's two layered now that I guess technically we're at baby step seven. And I'm so tired from the last two to three years here that it's kind of a headache and it's kind of, it's not that much of my income to.

[George Camel]

It's not like the side business blew up and you're like, I could replace my full time job. You're just like, I'm done with this side. It was a fun side hustle while I got out of debt. I'm done with.

[Caller]

What does it bring in about 1100amonth.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, okay. Okay.

[George Camel]

How are you even paying your parents from that?

[Caller]

It's just, it's kind of subcontracted out to them.

[Jade Warshaw]

So I think.

[George Camel]

But it's not like they're making four grand a month from this. They're not, like, paying bills.

[Caller]

No, no, no.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's just.

[George Camel]

Is it a side hustle for them, too?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Okay, then just shut it down.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

If you were going to, like, put them on the streets because now they're out of a job, then I'd be like, hey, let's be a little more cautious about this.

[Caller]

This.

[George Camel]

But if you had the conversation with them, said, hey, I started this because I was trying to get out of debt. I'm kind of done with it emotionally. Physically, I'm tired. So you guys are going to need to. If you want more side hustle money, you're going to find it elsewhere. Yeah, I'm shutting down the shop.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I also think the whole thing of them, the way they're spending their money, if they're open to maybe you telling them a little bit about, you know, Ramsey and how you figured out how to manage your money, I think that's fine. But honestly, I kind of feel like right now that's the least of things you need to be worried about. It sounds like you have a lot going on at home with your wife. Wife and this baby. And when you called, that seemed to be the thing that was getting your goat. And I think your parents is just kind of this nuisance that you're observing over here. And I think you just need to kind of swap that away for now.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Because the truth is, you can't control what they do with their money.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[George Camel]

And unless they invite you into their life to coach them on it, then it's. It's a moot point. They're just. It's going to just cause resentment.

[Caller]

I think that's the part that. That gets me is like, I do kind of like. Like coach on the side. Just kind of, I guess, freelance, whatever.

[George Camel]

You want to call. Have you offered that to them? Say, hey, I do coaching on the side. Like, I know I'm your son and you're. It's. It's awkward, but I'd be happy to look at your numbers.

[Caller]

You know, it gets very sticky, so.

[George Camel]

They don't want you to cut it loose.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And that's where. That's where I was looking for advice of. Just, like, when somebody doesn't want it, do I just need to walk away, watch the train wreck happen?

[Jade Warshaw]

Y. No. Walk away. Because for people, like, when they're. When the student's ready, the teacher appears, and they're not ready. So one day they might be. And you might be the teacher, and one day they might be ready and it's somebody else, maybe from their church or a friend of theirs. So you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink, Right.

[Caller]

All righty.

[George Camel]

All you can do is live your life and hopefully do it in a way that makes them go, man, what's Chase doing over there? I'm interested. Tell me more. But, man, parents, that's one of the hardest ones to tackle. Yeah, because like, they remember changing your diaper yesterday. They're not looking for financial advice from you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Exactly.

[George Camel]

But way to go, Chase, baby. Step seven. That's impressive.

[Jade Warshaw]

You said one of my favorite lines. You said it's a moot point.

[George Camel]

Moot.

[Jade Warshaw]

It would always work. It makes me think of friends. When he says it's a moose point. A moot point. A cow's opinion.

[George Camel]

Oh, thank you for that. I needed a win today.

[Jade Warshaw]

You needed that.

[George Camel]

Brennan is in Houston. Up next. Brennan, take us home, man. What's going on? How can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, how y' all doing today?

[George Camel]

Better than we deserve.

[Caller]

So I had a question for you. I'm in a position where I'm very blessed to making the money. I am. I'm 20. My base income is right around $100,000 a year, pre tax. But I'm struggling to decide between staying at this job or, you know, having an opportunity to go to college for maybe a job that pays a little less, but it gives me more free time.

[George Camel]

Free time? What does a 20 year old need free time for? You got all the free time?

[Caller]

Unfortunately, no. You think I would? This job's traveling.

[Jade Warshaw]

But do you have kids and a spouse?

[George Camel]

I'm just saying this is the freest you're gonna be. So what are you doing for work? Making 100,000 at 20.

[Caller]

So it's a traveling job. The simplest way to say it, it's basically large scale H vac. So, okay, you go from different sites. Like we're contracted with Walmart right now. So we'll jump from, you know, Walmart chain to Walmart chain and make sure it runs cold for the food storage and whatnot.

[George Camel]

Got it. Okay.

[Caller]

A lot of work. Work. It's a lot of hours. But, you know, they compensate me well. I have no bills at the moment.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do you like the work?

[Caller]

I like the money.

[George Camel]

Okay, so what do you want to go to college for? How clear are you on that?

[Caller]

Relatively clear. Originally, my plan was going to be for college, but life got in the way and I didn't feel like taking on a bunch of debt to go to college.

[Jade Warshaw]

Good.

[Caller]

It was a big problem. I was me going for either business administration or construction management.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, now you can cash flow it. Is that what you're saying? That you have the money that you could pay for it now?

[Caller]

50. 50. I have the opportunity to go to college for free, but it would have to be in California, dude. My father, he was in the military, so I would get my tuition covered if I went out there. And we were in the talks right now about an arrangement where I'd pay a certain amount for rent or paying it all, whatever.

[George Camel]

I mean, I don't think you're gonna, you're not gonna regret going to college debt free and doing the thing you really want to do and exploring that because you know you're a skilled the trades and so I, if I you can do it free. I'd go for construction management. If that's the field you want to be in, business administration. I'd want some real clear answers on what's on the other side of that. I think construction management has more upside for you if that's the field you want to be in. So go for it, dude. Just do it all debt free. You're 20, you can take those kinds of risks now. Just don't go into debt to do it. That's the only parameter here. But explore, explore. Follow your heart, my friend. This is the Ramsey show. For way too long I struggled with sleep and woke up groggy after tossing and turning all night. But now I look forward to bedtime and I wake up bright eyed and bushy tailed. Thanks to Casper, a company that's been perfecting better sleep for over a decade. Using durable, high quality materials that actually last my whole family now sleeps on Casper mattresses. Yes, even the dogs have their own Casper dog bed. To no one's surprise, and it's not just one man's opinion. Casper customers keep their mattresses for years and 4 out of 5 customers recommend them to friends. And with free delivery and 100 night trial, Casper is no gimmicks. A mattress you can trust, backed by quality that lasts. So go to Casper.com Ramsey and use promo code Ramsey to receive 25% off all mattresses and 10% off everything else. With code Ramsey, that's Casper. Dot exclusions apply. Welcome back to the Ramsey show and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel, joined by Jade Warshaw this hour. 8888255225 is the number to call if you want to join the conversation. Brian is in Topeka, Kansas, up next. Brian, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hey, so I have about $90,000 tied up. $90,000 in debt tied up in a truck and a camper since I travel for work.

[Jade Warshaw]

And.

[Caller]

I always want to. I'm always like, I'm tired of being broke. I want to get this paid off in the next year.

How.

How do you get into that mentality of, like, whenever it comes to payday, I'm just, I don't want to do it, but whenever it's time to pay the bill, I want to get rid of this. How do you get getting the mentality of.

[Jade Warshaw]

Making it happen?

[Caller]

I need to get this done.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Making it happen.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, I mean, I think. I think for you right now, it's just logic. I think you're seeing, okay, I have debt. Yeah, it makes sense to pay it off. Maybe you heard somebody say a good reason. Right. But right now, it still feels very external. And I think there's gotta be something internally in you that is a real reason why and that you're feeling to where that's the motivator for you to actually make this happen and move the needle. And a lot of times that's tied to our goals, like what our goals are in life. So if your goal is to get married, or if your goal is to buy a house, or your goal is to be the first person in your family to retire and it not be a burden. Right. Whatever that thing is, I think that maybe you haven't connected it to that yet.

[Caller]

Okay. Because I've set goals for. I want to get the debt paid off in the next year and then why? To be financially free. And so I can continue on my other financial goals of buying land, building a house, and then.

[Jade Warshaw]

But also I'm asking deeper questions because money, it can't just be for more gain. Like, it can't be money for money's sake. I want to get out of debt so I can have more money. Why? So I can buy more things. Why? So I can have more thing. You know, there's got to be, like, you got to pinpoint it to something. It's, you know. So when you said, hey, I want to buy land, why is land important to you? If you said, hey, I want to build a house, why is building a house important to you? What does it represent? So I think getting to that deeper level is really helpful. Otherwise, it's pretty surface. And a lot of times what we find, George, is people call in and they're just looking for the next thing they can do. And it's not really. It's not satisfying them in the way that they thought it was.

[George Camel]

Yeah, you'll get there and go, okay, I did it, but now what? And we want you to have some deeper purpose here. And I think you're getting there. The way you're talking, what do you make?

[Caller]

Make about 110. Before or after taxes?

[George Camel]

After taxes you make 110 great income. Okay, so when you say I want to pay this off in 12 months, how are you planning on doing that?

[Caller]

So my checks are about 2,100 to 2,500, depending on over time and how my hours are.

[George Camel]

Is that twice a month, a week?

[Caller]

No, it's every week.

[George Camel]

Okay, good. I was like, man, this math is not mathing for me. Okay, that's great.

[Caller]

That's weekly. And just. I did the math and right around 1500 bucks a week. Get to a point to where I have a. I'm thinking like a $10,000 safety net since I am traveling for work.

[George Camel]

And how much do you have saved now?

[Caller]

Nothing.

[George Camel]

Okay, so you're just paycheck to paycheck, spending everything you get. All right.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do they cover your expenses or is that on you? Do they reimburse you?

[Host/Announcer]

You.

[Caller]

They. So they pay incentives to come out here and then the travel expenses are on me.

[George Camel]

Okay. What's left on the truck and what's left on the camper?

[Caller]

There's 60 on the truck and 30 on the camper.

[George Camel]

Okay. Do you need a $60,000 truck to do your job?

[Caller]

I don't.

[George Camel]

Okay. Because that's over half of your. Your take home pay. It's a lot of truck for. And it sounds like you're a young guy. How old are you?

[Caller]

You 20.

[George Camel]

Okay. A 20 year old does not need a $60,000 truck to do any job. Can we agree on that?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

A 50 year old doesn't need a $60,000 truck to do a job. So if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to see what I can do to lighten my load, literally. And sell this truck and get a new to me truck for 15,000. So what is the truck worth if you sold it? Private party. How much could you get for it?

[Caller]

Probably 55 to 60. I haven't really done the blue book on it.

[George Camel]

Cool. There's some homework and if you are underwater on it by a little bit, you need to come up with that in savings, which you could do within a month if you're underwater by five grand. Could you save five grand to save your life in the next month?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Great. So now you can clear the title. Now we still need another truck, right? You still need that?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So you're gonna need to come up with another 10 grand, 15 grand to get a beater truck is what this is gonna amount to in the truck world.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Because you just need to get from A to B. Right.

[Caller]

Well, the camper is taking you.

[George Camel]

You're just hauling the truck along with the camper.

[Caller]

No, it's a full behind camper, so I'm hauling the camper.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller]

I need something reliable enough to get across the country if I need to. If the next job is in Nevada to pack myself up and.

[George Camel]

Yeah, but they make reliable trucks that are 20 grand instead of 60 grand.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[George Camel]

You know the truck world. So here's the problem. That $60,000 truck is depreciating like a rock, the way you're driving it across the country, which is even more reason to not drive a super nice truck all the time across the country, because the more mileage you're putting on it, the more wear and tear. That thing is plummeting in value. So that's what scares me, is you could be underwater 20 grand and not know it right now.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So I would do some homework on that part. And, man, if you can get this done in 6 months instead of 12, wouldn't you want that? Yeah, I'd rather you eat rice and beans for six months instead of a whole year. So I would be looking at what makes sense to sell and get something cheaper. And the way your income is, you could save up and buy something used pretty quickly. And the good news is lots of people are selling used campers out there. Lots of people selling used trucks out there.

[Caller]

Yeah, for sure.

[George Camel]

And so just know it's a short season of rice and beans for you. Some people, like Jade, it took, you know, over seven years for her and her husband to pay off their debt. So for you to be able to do this in six months, you're gonna blink. You won't even be able to drink yet on your 21st birthday by the time you're debt free.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, yeah. And just know, you know, going back to what I was saying earlier, part of that, why is. Why is it a good idea to do this now? And it's because you're unattached, man. Like, you got all the time in the world. You can do what you want with your money. There's no lady in your life that you have to share decisions with you don't have kids. Like there's so many reasons to do this now versus later. So just spend some time with that mentally and let that soak in, okay?

[George Camel]

I'm proud of you, man. You're a very successful 20 year old with a good head on your shoulders. We made some mistakes. The good news, you know anything that's vehicle related, at least we can sell those. You know, you go into a hundred thousand of student loan debt, you can't go sell the degree.

[Jade Warshaw]

Man, I wish you could.

[George Camel]

Nobody's interested.

[Jade Warshaw]

I would have sold mine off.

[George Camel]

If anyone's interested in a communications degree, I have one available.

[Jade Warshaw]

And then it's like Men in Black. They do the thing and you forget everything you learned as well.

[George Camel]

Well, trust me, I don't remember anything I learned. I think that, you know, I'm sorry, but who remembers things that like specific things they learned in college. Unless you were in like a 5.13, a medical field, like, you know, law, like something like that where you kind of need to know some things.

[Jade Warshaw]

Where the funny bone is located.

[George Camel]

Couldn't tell you what happened in small group communication theory. Oh, I don't even know what that is exactly. There you go. I just. As much as I don't like going into debt for vehicles, it's nice when we get a call and I go, hey, you could sell the truck.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's a great.

[George Camel]

You could sell the horse. Both are assets. Technically.

[Jade Warshaw]

You said it, not me.

[Host/Announcer]

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[George Camel]

Micah is in South Carolina. Welcome to the show. Micah, what's going on?

[Caller]

Hey, Jordan J. Thanks for taking my call. How are you guys?

[George Camel]

We're doing well. What's your question today?

[Caller]

So I'm trying to help my mom, and she is in a really tough financial position. I've been following the baby steps for about four or five years, and I'm doing well, going through it, trying to use my experience to help her. And once we kind of got into the details, I'm kind of at a loss because I don't know how to help her. And so I need some additional advice.

[Jade Warshaw]

What kind of help does she need? What's going on?

[Caller]

So she makes hardly any income. She's on Social Security. She's disabled, and she has for her with a ton of credit card debt, and she can barely make minimums. So long story short, my dad died in 2013. I grew up on the baby steps with him back when it was just radio. I hated doing it, but I helped dad do the finances, and then when he died, mom ended up living off of credit cards for the last, you know, 12 years. Her and my brother and my sister all bought property. They sold family property, they bought new property, paid for it outright, and then mortgaged houses. I kind of stayed out of it because I see what happens with family and money. I hear it all the time on here.

[George Camel]

Smart man.

[Caller]

I've seen her struggle, and I've offered to help, and my sister and her. My sister lived with her until she got married. So the finances are very intertwined. And I've offered to help, and I've offered to help, and I've offered to help, and it's always been turned down by my mom and my sister. I said, look, you know, the whole powdered butt syndrome, there's not really a whole lot I can do until they ask for it.

[George Camel]

And so she is a part of these properties?

[Caller]

Yes. So mom. Mom owns a majority of the land that's now all new family property. The land itself is paid for, and she's got a mortgage on the property.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much land?

[Caller]

How many acres collectively? I think between my brother and my mom and all, it's like 40 acres.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so how many people are included in this land? Is your brother, Is your mom your sister?

[Caller]

Yes. So my sister just got married, and the plan is for her to move back into the house to help take care of mom. She just had a baby, and so all of that is a whole complicated.

[George Camel]

They're all just living together. In this commune on the land, what's it worth?

[Jade Warshaw]

What's all that land with the house on it worth? I'm just curious.

[Caller]

I don't know as of right now. I know they bought it for like nine an acre, and so it's probably worth a lot more than that.

[George Camel]

Yeah. We're wondering is part of this. Part of it can be sold to clean up mom's debt since she's part owner.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's a lot of acres. Could you sell off 20 of it or however much needed to clean up her debt and give her a nest egg to draw from?

[Caller]

I think it is. I think if I offered that as a solution, that's gonna be a non starter.

[George Camel]

What is their solution? So that mom doesn't, you know, isn't. Mom isn't broke the rest of her life.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[Caller]

Well, and that's. That's where I'm kind of as the outsider now. I'm trying to help her with what I can, but I know I'm gonna get a lot of pushback. And so I tried to just go, hey, let me help you with your finances that you have now. And it's always been turned down until she called me in tears, not being able to make minimums. And I said, I will, I will gift you money, but I would love for you to let me help. And what she said, I think now she tearfully, you know, kind of depressively accepted.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And then what happened next?

[Caller]

Well, so it gave us the opportunity to actually go through the numbers and see, you know, what her income is, what her outgoing is, and it's a lot worse than I thought.

[Jade Warshaw]

What is her income?

[Caller]

So she makes 1800 bucks a month off of Social Security disability.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Nothing else? There's nothing else coming in?

[Caller]

There's nothing else coming in.

[Jade Warshaw]

No money saved, no nest egg, Nothing anywhere except this land.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Camel]

And is she paying the mortgage on her own right now?

[Caller]

So she's paying a portion of it. Mortgage is 875. She's paying 375 of it, and my sister is paying 500 of it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, now your sister, tell us about her. Because she's living in the house with your mom. She's paying the majority of the mortgage. She has a stake in this land. What. What does your sister say to all this? Have you got a. Have you sat down with your siblings and said, hey, here's a deal with mom. What are we gonna do?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what. How does that go?

[Caller]

So it hasn't gone well. My sister has not made very good financial Decisions, in my opinion.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

She's going. She's doing her own little, you know, debt consolidation thing right now. That is third, letting it default, and then she's, you know, paying them to do it. I advise against it, you know. You know, trying to follow the teachings of what y' all tell us. And so she. So she's not currently living with mom. She was living with her until she got married a year. A year and some change ago, but.

[Jade Warshaw]

She'S just paying the mortgage even. She's paying the mortgage even though she's not staying there.

[Caller]

Correct. Because the plan is for her to come back and eventually, when. When mom dies, it'll be her house. So again, it's all very intertwined.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got it.

[Caller]

But so. So she's got 1800 coming in.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do you not think that? Because part of me is thinking, okay, if this plays out like you think it is, which is the track recorders, they're not. The track record is they're not doing things the way you think you should be doing them, and they're not making smart choices. At some point, this is going to implode. Do you not feel like when this implodes, that's when the sister is going to really. The sister is going to be left holding the bag because she's the one that's going to be living there, and she's the one that's going to want the house. And in order for her to keep the house, she's going to have to sell off some of this land.

[George Camel]

Well, the creditors are going to come after the estate, which your sister's a part of.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[George Camel]

And so there's no way anyone's getting out of this scot free here. And so for people who have a lot of plans, they are really terrible at planning.

[Jade Warshaw]

Mm.

[George Camel]

And I don't know how much do.

[Jade Warshaw]

You get any portion of this when this all. Like when your mom.

[Caller]

I. I declined all of it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So.

[Caller]

Because I know what it'll do. And I was like, I. I'm okay on my little half acre.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

It's like inheriting a wasps nest. You're like, no, thank you. You guys can take over that.

[Jade Warshaw]

You might need to step. You might need to just step aside and let them live and let them do what they're gonna do, because you've said it. You've said it again, and you've said it again. You might just need to let them lay in the bed that they made.

[Caller]

Well, and as far as the land and all that goes, I 100% agree. But as far as just her income and debt go, I've told her. I was like, you know, there's gotta be a way. And so, like, just her finances on her side alone. I don't know. Like, there's no way. I don't really see a way for her to do the baby steps because she can't even meet the minimum.

[Jade Warshaw]

But she could if she sold off some of this land. She's not assetless and she's making the choice. Do you know what I'm saying?

[George Camel]

But I'm guessing there was no written agreement here with this land of what would happen, who wants out, how would they get out, or someone gonna buy her share.

[Caller]

And I advise them that they need to have everything on paper notarized, and. And none of that happened.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I don't know that she can force the sale of this land because she's a minority stake here.

[Caller]

She. Yeah.

[George Camel]

So I would at least look into it with attorney to see what the options are. I would try to influence your mom to say I want out to her, to the siblings. I don't think you can influence the siblings at this point. I think there's already been enough of a wedge drawn there that you're not going to have any. Make any headway there. So that's the sad truth of it. But here's what I would do for your mom. Have recover her four walls first. And if she can't make minimums on the credit cards, the credit card company can kick rocks. They're not going to get paid before food's on the table.

[Caller]

Kind of what I. That's kind of what I told her. And so I was curious, you know, a little additional advice in regards to that. She's barely making four walls now.

[George Camel]

Yeah, well, she can't make the mortgage payment. Sister's gonna pick up the slack, isn't she?

[Jade Warshaw]

Right? That's what's gonna happen.

[George Camel]

That's on her. That's what happens when you, you know, co sign. And so that's what I would be doing is make sure mom is healthy, safe, has food, the lights are on. And I wouldn't pay the debts if you can't pay them. And next I would move to the mortgage if she can't pay it because someone else is on the hook for that. And this is the price you pay. So I'm so sorry you're going through this, Micah. This is messy all around. I just don't see a happy ending here for anybody. The most you can do is just support her through this emotional. Here's the deal, America. The big wireless companies are literally banking on you overpaying every single month. But not Boost Mobile. Boost flipped the script. You get unlimited talk, text and data for just $25 and a month. 25 bucks. That's it. No contracts, no fine print traps. Just real savings that stay in your pocket where they belong. And if you're thinking, well, George, that sounds too good to be true. Here's the mic drop. They've got a 30 day money back guarantee, so you can try it risk free and see how much you save. Go to boostmobile.com Ramsey to make the switch today. That's boostmobile.com Ramsey restrictions apply. See boostmobile.com Ramsey for details. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. The number to call is 888-255-2225. Let me see if I can find our question of the day here. It's sponsored by Y Refi. You didn't take out private student loans hoping to default. But life happens. And why Refi won't shame you. They'll help you explore a real plan to get back on track. So head to yrefi.comramsey to find out more. That's the letter Y, r, e f y.com Ramsey not available in all states.

[Jade Warshaw]

Cool, cool, cool. Today's question comes from Andre in Oklahoma. I didn't sing this time, George.

[George Camel]

Thank you.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm 21 years old and have roughly $75,000 in cash. My vehicle and motorcycles were paid with cash as well as everything else. My question is, if I was looking to be a risky investor, where are my best options?

[Caller]

What?

[George Camel]

That took a wild turn.

[Jade Warshaw]

He's ready to get crazy. Did I read that right?

[George Camel]

I don't even know if this is a real question, but I'll treat it as such.

[Jade Warshaw]

So he wants to invest the 75,000 in some risky behavior, some risky business.

[George Camel]

I'm just confused because a 21 year old must have worked her tail off to get 75,000 in cash unless it was inherited. And so he's worked hard to make sure everything was paid in cash, avoid debt. And now he's wanting to take on risk somehow to be a, quote, risky investor. So my first question is, why? What is your actual goal? Do you want a million dollars by 25? Well, then what's behind that? You know, I want to get to the root of this because I think it's just young people going, well, I gotta make a lot of money now.

[Jade Warshaw]

Interesting. Maybe he's just asking for a friend and he's trying to.

[George Camel]

Well, you Asked the wrong people. I don't do risky investing.

[Jade Warshaw]

Crypto. That would be very dumb.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I guess if you wanted, if, if I was not me and I said I've got, you know, $50,000 I want to go throw at something. I probably just like put it all on black on crypto and hope for the best. Otherwise just go to Vegas, go sports, bet on a parlay or something.

[Jade Warshaw]

But yeah, I day trade it and see if I can make a, make a spread if I want to.

[George Camel]

Hope that a company single stock does really well. Like some single stock.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Pharmaceutical company or something.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, you could buy a, A, Is it enough? No, I was going to say he.

[George Camel]

Could buy a half a bitcoin. I don't know what the kids cyber.

[Jade Warshaw]

Truck since those are dropping like rocks.

[George Camel]

That is definitely not an investment.

[Jade Warshaw]

A lot of people think cars are an investment. Can I just say when somebody buys a brand new car and they say yeah, it was a solid investment. I'm like you're an idiot. I'm respectfully, that's the dumbest thing you could ever say. That a new car is a solid investment. Moving on.

[George Camel]

Well, I've got a, I've got a buddy of mine and he's, he bought like a, a Ford GT and it was like $340,000. But he's like well it paid off cuz now it's worth 400 something thousand dollars certain cars. But he also is, you know, has to like keep it pristine in storage. Can't drive it, can't enjoy it, can't use it. I'm like dude, just buy some art if you want to. Just put something on the wall to enjoy.

[Jade Warshaw]

So for real, for real.

[George Camel]

If you want to be an investor, I don't think risk should be a major factor you're looking for. So I would personally just park it in an index fund. If you want some flexibility with this money that tracks the S&P 500, I would max out retirement accounts and I would invest in yourself. At 21, you're doing this well, maybe start a business. That would probably be the best quote unquote risky investment I would make is all cash. Start a business based on something you're really passionate about that you know a lot about do you think you'd be good at.

[Jade Warshaw]

I gotta believe there was a typo here and my guys forgot one word.

[George Camel]

I think where he's coming from is because he's so young, like he feels like he can invest in something. High risk, high reward board and let and has the time to make up for it.

[Host/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Like, if he, basically, if he lost it all, he'd be like, okay, well, I'm 22 now with less money. I'll be okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right.

[George Camel]

I'm not saying it's good. I just mean I think that's kind of what he's. That's where he's coming from. I think this question came from producer James, and he's secretly.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is this you asking for a friend, James?

[George Camel]

You know, I go by Andre. Yeah. So James is an old man. He's not looking for risk at this point. He's just looking for some peace and quiet. I love that. Great question, Andre, but when you say risky investor, it just like all of my red flags go up at once.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[George Camel]

Because I, I want you to build wealth and keep it. And, you know, I. I'm a man of faith. I love this verse from Proverbs 13. Wealth gained hastily will dwindle. Whoever gathers little by little will increase it. So that's the principle I live by when it comes to wealth building. I'm trusting, you know, Solomon over some dude on Tick Tock. I think the Bible has some great wisdom in that. So read Proverbs and then get back to us, Andre. Appreciate the question. All right, let's get to the phones. Pastor George has put the pulpit down also.

[Jade Warshaw]

James is now Andre in my mind from henceforth forever.

[George Camel]

So good. Aaron is in Denver. Up next, Erin, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi, thanks for making my call, but we're trying to do a essentially career change for my husband.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller]

And he's been 20 years. We don't get a pension, unfortunately, but he's done 20 years. He's ready to switch careers.

[George Camel]

Years.

[Caller]

But this career search is going to be a huge hit to our finances as we build up back, you know, some more experience in that new career.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's he doing now?

[Caller]

Trying to find out. So he's in law enforcement right now.

[George Camel]

Okay, what's he want to do?

[Caller]

He wants to fly helicopters.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And what does that process look like?

[Caller]

He's already gone through all the certifications. He's actually teaching and working part time right now. So we've already gone through the schooling and all the things he needs for the. That.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's the financial difference? So what. What's he making now as a cop? And what would he be making doing helicopters full time?

[Caller]

So that's the thing is like, so as a cop, he's making 140 before taxes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

But flying, he'll be essentially having that. Having until he can build up. Yeah. Having like.

[George Camel]

Do you guys have any debt right now?

[Caller]

Just our house and child support.

[George Camel]

Okay. Do you, could you live off of $70,000 today?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

There was a lot of hesitation there.

[Jade Warshaw]

Did you actually run the budget out?

[Caller]

I did. So I looked at, you know, I followed the budget to save up because we have, I have about four months saved up for kind of where we're at right now to cover at least our, you know, child support and, and house and utilities. You know, I have that saved up. 4 months.

[Jade Warshaw]

When will the 70k go up? Or is that kind of just what a helicopter pilot makes? Will it ever go up to 140?

[Caller]

It may. So it depends on your hours.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[Caller]

Early hours, because he only has less, he has less than 300 hours right now. And to really start making like have a decent job, EMs, oil rigs, stuff like that, that's up after a thousand hours, up to like 1200 hours. So he's got a good way to go.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller]

Before he can start making comparable money to what we're making now.

[George Camel]

So I'm seeing on my screen here stuff about taking out helocs and pulling money out of retirement. Where does that come into play?

[Caller]

Yes. So we're looking at. Because again like right now he's not really making. Right now he's making $25 an hour. And then if, when he makes, you know, after a little while he makes $30 an hour and then after 500 hours he can make $40 an hour.

[Jade Warshaw]

How quickly does that happen?

[Caller]

How many people want to fly? So it's contract work.

[George Camel]

Got it. So it's inconsistency. And this is on top of his full time law enforcement job. This is on the side. Nights, weekends. Okay.

[Caller]

Well, we're. Yeah. So we're looking at quitting next year so he can focus full time on flying.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Okay.

[Caller]

And building those hours quickly. So that's why we're looking at the money. Having that extra money or pulling the retirement. It'd be my retirement. So he has his retirement and I have mine from when I, I quit two years ago to be stay at home.

[Jade Warshaw]

Mom, I would not pull from your retirement to do this.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

I would. If anything, if anything. How, how much have you calculated that you kind of need as a cushion to do this?

[Caller]

So we're looking at the 70,000 to cover our debts.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

Like our basics.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you need, you need 70,000 saved in order to make this transition the way you feel like you need to.

[Caller]

Yeah. For a year. That will cover us for the year? Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so how quickly on 140,000 with no debt, could you save up that money? You already have four months of emergency fund fund, which is great. How, how long would it take you to do something like that? Because I feel like that's what's gonna inform this. You can't go into debt over this. Because if you go, and let me tell you, if you pull out your retirement for this and for some reason it goes south or he doesn't make the money as quickly as you want to, you are going to be filled with resentment, he's going to be filled with guilt and shame and regret. And this is not going to be a good deal.

[George Camel]

You're unplugging all of that growth. You're basically borrowing, throwing it 35% to. With all the penalties and fees, the HELOC is going to put your house at risk and add more pressure to all of this. I would not do this.

[Jade Warshaw]

Nothing's on fire.

[George Camel]

I would wait a year, save up the 70,000, live off 70 and save up the other 70 and then make the move a year from now as he gets more hours on the side. I just wouldn't rush this. It's going to add way too much pressure and stress to your life right now.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you'll know you can live on the 70.

[George Camel]

Exactly. It's a good test run for 12 months. Hey, guys, if you're already shopping at Aldi, way to maximize your grocery budget. Good for you. Now here's how to level up your savings. Make Aldi your first stop every week. From fresh organic produce to grass fed beef, to marinated chicken that's ready to cook, to high quality dairy products, you'll be able to snag everything you need without the hassle and nonsense. Just legit quality and low prices. And families like yours can save up to $4,000 a year just by shopping at Aldi. And that's not a hack, it's just a smarter habit. So stop overpaying. Make Aldi your first stop for groceries and watch the savings stack up. Find a store near [e-mail] that's a L D I US savings. Based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability and the market.

[Jade Warshaw]

Market.

[George Camel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Good news, Jade. I know you've been waiting for this.

[Jade Warshaw]

Have I?

[George Camel]

The Christmas gift giveaway.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, yes, I've been waiting.

[George Camel]

And not only is it a Christmas giveaway, it's a Christmas cash giveaway. Because we like to say cash is king. Around here, each week someone's going to win 500 bucks and one grand prize winner will win $5,000. And you can enter every day from now until December 20th. You can enter daily. To increase your chances to win, just go to ramseysolutions.comgiveaway right now to enter. No purchase necessary to win. We're not going to be mad if you do purchase something, but you don't have to purchase something to be a part of the giveaway.

[Jade Warshaw]

I want to interview the people that win this and I want to know what they do with the money.

[George Camel]

I remember I was on the team, you know, for a long time now. So I've had a lot of jobs here and I was. One of my jobs was email marketing. And so we got to like email.

[Jade Warshaw]

The person really and tell them that they won.

[George Camel]

Yeah. And we, I would send the email like here's the winners for the week and all that. And so it was a lot of fun to get to be a part of the behind the scenes. I would hear like my co worker call the person to let them know that they've won. It was a game show. It was so fun.

[Jade Warshaw]

Put me on that.

[George Camel]

Real people win this thing, guys. We actually mean it. So there you go. Go enter. Jane is in Scranton, Pennsylvania up next. Welcome to the show, Jane. How can we help?

[Caller]

Well, thanks for having me on.

[George Camel]

Sure.

[Caller]

I'm calling for some advice on how to handle my 29 year old son who's moved back home to follow the baby Steps millionaire program. He wants to pay off all of of his private student loan debt. So he's moved back home. We're glad to have him. I'm nearing retirement age. My husband's been retired a long time. We're in decent shape financially. No debt at all. But expenses are hard. You know, the cost of maintaining a home has increased. The cost of utilities, the cost of food, property taxes. So our budget, it gets stressed a little bit from time to time, especially you know, times of the year like this when the heat's on. And so does it cost more to.

[Jade Warshaw]

Heat the house with him in it?

[Caller]

Well, not necessarily, but the cost of food goes up and you know, with him keeping the lights on where that part of the house might have normally been dark.

[George Camel]

Sure. The water, the utilities will bump up a bit. He'll be eating your foods, your food bill is going to go up.

[Jade Warshaw]

Why don't you tell him he needs to contribute a little something.

[Caller]

Something I did. So his response was, well, I asked him if he would take on one bill I said, just one bill. You can pick out whatever one you want. So I showed him my. We have. We have your budget app. So I showed him my every dollar budget and I said, pick one. And his response was, well, let me look at all of your bills so that I can see how you can cut costs so I don't have to do this.

[Jade Warshaw]

Let me tell you something.

[George Camel]

Wow. Maniacal. How about this? You say, you know what? Forget that plan. You're Gonna pay us $300 a month if you want to live here.

[Jade Warshaw]

Or you can just go live somewhere else.

[Caller]

That sounds good to me, man.

[George Camel]

Is he working full time?

[Caller]

Oh, he has a very good job with. He's a government employee with a GS13 level job.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh my gosh.

[George Camel]

What does he make?

[Caller]

Well over $100,000 a year. And right now he's in the military. He's a high ranking officer, and he's making all of his money tax free because it's an active duty deployment and.

[Jade Warshaw]

He won't pay one bill.

[George Camel]

Well, how much private. How much debt does he have?

[Caller]

I'm sorry?

[George Camel]

How much debt does he have?

[Caller]

He has no debt other than the student loan.

[George Camel]

Okay, well, that's.

[Jade Warshaw]

He just wanted to invest.

[George Camel]

No, no, he has debt. You said he has no debt except for all these student loans. Yeah, that is. That's debt.

[Host/Announcer]

Student loans.

[George Camel]

If it ends with loan, it's debt. So how much debt?

[Caller]

So I think he's got. He had well over 100,000. He's down to about 35,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[George Camel]

He moved back in to pay off 35 grand, making over 100. This feels crazy.

[Caller]

This is my son.

[Jade Warshaw]

But you said yes to this.

[George Camel]

Was he renting before on his own or what?

[Caller]

He was renting before on his own. Prior to that, he was engaged to a wonderful woman and he was living with her. They were supposed to get married in a couple of months and she just got so used to. She got so frustrated with him being so cheap that she broke off the engagement and threw him out.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, there you have it.

[George Camel]

Oh, my goodness.

[Jade Warshaw]

And there you have it. So this is a. This is a character trait of. He was cheap with the girlfriend. Possibly. One of the reasons they were living together was so he could lower his expenses. Because then right after that, he turns around and moves in with you. Do you know what I would do if I were in your shoes?

[Caller]

I'd love to know.

[Jade Warshaw]

I would say, he can't live here. I'd say, I love you, but you can't live here. You don't need to Live with me to pay off $35,000 of debt. You've got plenty of income in order to do that. And I see this as a pattern, sir. Son, you need to move out, and you need to learn to open up the purse strings.

[George Camel]

He is not struggling financially. Now, if this guy had just gone through a really tough time, like, obviously, like a divorce was on his, you know, had nowhere to go, and he was really struggling financially, I'd say, hey, let's. Let's give him a laundry, like a little. Little. A bit of a hammock for six months to get him on his feet. This man doesn't need that.

[Caller]

I agree.

[George Camel]

And so have you had that conversation, your health?

[Caller]

No, we haven't had any kind of a hard conversation like that because he has just recently moved in. We're talking just a couple of weeks.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. What's your husband say?

[Caller]

My husband is elderly. He's 25 years my senior, and at his age, he's just glad to have him back in the house.

[Jade Warshaw]

I see. I see. Yeah.

[George Camel]

I would give a time. He's already in the house. So I would just create a timeline and say, listen, I know how much you make. I know you can put this much toward the debt. So if you do it this way, here's the rules. And if you can pay this off and, I don't know, six months, let's say. Is that possible?

[Caller]

Probably, yes.

[George Camel]

That's 5,800amonth. Could he do that living at home with no expenses?

[Caller]

Absolutely. He can.

[Jade Warshaw]

See, George is.

[George Camel]

I'm just throwing napkin math out there. And she said, absolutely, he can, because she knows how much he makes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. But I'm like, the boy must go.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I know.

[Host/Announcer]

I agree.

[George Camel]

But you've already. He's literally made his bed, and they're laying. They're laying in it.

[Caller]

And so I would do that if my husband wasn't so thrilled to have him home.

[George Camel]

Here's what I think is gonna happen.

[Jade Warshaw]

He can come over every night for dinner. You know what I'm saying?

[Caller]

This is true.

[Jade Warshaw]

You know, this is. We don't. Because what I. What I see happening, because he. He loves saving money. He wants to save a buck. And what I see happening is he pays off the debt, then the next goal comes, well, I want to save up X amount of time.

[George Camel]

Just wait till I have enough for a down payment.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yep. And it's going to. The goalpost is going to keep moving.

[George Camel]

And truly, that's where I say, as soon as you have this debt paid off, you're gone. And that's going to be six months from now. And we're going to have a meeting every month and you're going to show us the debt balance if you're going to be living here.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do you think he'd do that?

[Caller]

He would. And I so appreciate this advice because I know he's listening.

[George Camel]

Oh, good.

[Caller]

From you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Let me, let me send him a message. Let me send him a message.

[George Camel]

Sure.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sir, if you're listening, I think that you need to move out. I think that you need to learn how to handle your expenses. It's okay. It costs money to live as an adult. It costs money to adult. That's rent. That's a mortgage. That's paying for your own life. And at the very least, if you are going to live in your mama's house, you need to pay for the electricity that you use and the food that you eat at 29 years old. All right, mama, I set it for you.

[George Camel]

Mom's going to apply for him to be on extreme cheapskates. They're just going to follow him around the house with the camera. Camera watching him mooch off of you guys and his elderly dad to save a buck while he makes six figures as a high ranking official in the military. And also thank him for his service.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, thank you for your service.

[George Camel]

All jokes aside, he sounds like a great young man, but he's just too cheap for his own good.

[Jade Warshaw]

He can't help it. He can't help it.

[George Camel]

He already lost a great woman over this.

[Jade Warshaw]

You know, that's true.

[George Camel]

You could have had a really sweet relationship with this woman if it all panned out.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, if he moves out, maybe he can get, get her back.

[George Camel]

Now that would be a love story for the ages.

[Caller]

One never knows.

[George Camel]

He's gonna go to those 25 cent rings to try to propose. That's probably. She saw that writing on the wall and said, no, thank you.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's not good.

[George Camel]

Goodness gracious, what an interesting conundrum. I'm trying to really put myself in her shoes.

[Jade Warshaw]

I couldn't.

[George Camel]

Now here's the thing. This is where I'm a softie. If it was my daughter, I think I'd treat it differently at 29.

[Jade Warshaw]

But here's what got me when she said, pick a bill to pay. And he's like, instead of me paying the bill, let me lower your expenses and crunch your budget and make you like that. Got me?

[George Camel]

Yeah. The other thing that I've seen that can work decently is if you say, hey, you're gonna pay 500 bucks a month to live here. Mom and dad set that money aside in a savings account and give it back to him when he moves out as a surprise. That's a nice gesture if you don't need the money. But truthfully, they were saying it's already a little bit tough.

[Jade Warshaw]

Tight. Yeah.

[George Camel]

And so, yeah, they could use the extra money if he's, you know, mooching off the house and paying rank, racking up the utility bills. I think that's fair.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's a failure to launch. For me, it's a failure to launch.

[George Camel]

He has the money and he has the discipline.

[Jade Warshaw]

He does.

[George Camel]

I mean, if you're a high ranking official, you don't get there by being lackadaisical. So, man, that's a tough one. But what a sweet woman. I get it. She's. She's just too sweet for her own good and he's too cheap for his own good. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel, joined by my good friend Jade Warshaw and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Joey's up next in Orlando, Florida. Joey, what's going on?

[Caller]

Hey, how are you doing?

[George Camel]

Great. What's your question?

[Caller]

Thanks for having me.

[Host/Announcer]

I.

[Caller]

So about two and a half years ago, we bought a house and renovated this house, kind of knowing it would be a really solid investment. Knew that got too tight, something we could sell and end up making some money on. We bought the house and got into it. What we didn't expect was to kind of fall in love with our neighbors in our community. And now we've got four kids and we've kind of built this community around us that kids can kind of roam freely. And really it's kind of become a dream scenario in that way. But we're living a little tighter than we'd like to. So the question kind of comes down to should we be willing to sacrifice the community and take the profit from the house and move that into something where we have a little bit more financial peace, or do we stick it out and see if we can kind of grow our resources to a point where it makes sense to continue living in this scenario.

[George Camel]

Wow, what's your mortgage?

[Caller]

Every month ends up being about 53, 5700.

[Jade Warshaw]

And how much do you bring home home after, after taxes?

[Caller]

Well, it's, it varies because the way my wife, we're. My wife owns some commercial real estate and I'm in the live Production business. So at times we get paid. We kind of do it more quarterly than monthly.

[Jade Warshaw]

If you were to take the average over across the year, what would it be? Monthly?

[Caller]

Monthly ends up being probably around $12,000 a month.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so yeah, you're feeling it.

[Caller]

You're right.

[George Camel]

You're starting to climb up to almost half of your take home pay being eaten up by the mortgage. Do you guys have any other debt?

[Caller]

No, we have a car payment and one car payment and that's it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Has the mortgage always been this large or did you roll?

[Caller]

It has not. No. We actually. Our old mortgage for this house. Yes, it has always been this much.

[Jade Warshaw]

How long have you, how long have you been there? You've been. Been managing almost half. Half of your take home pay going to this for how long?

[Caller]

About two and a half years.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

Wow.

[George Camel]

What's left on the balance of the mortgage?

[Caller]

Oh, a lot like a million.

[George Camel]

I'm trying to figure out what causes a $6,000 mortgage payment.

[Caller]

It's about 500 and I think our mortgage about 575. We still owe somewhere around 570 for, you know, because.

[George Camel]

And, and what's that worth?

[Caller]

Interest? It's worth about 1.4 currently.

[George Camel]

Nice. So you got a good amount of equity in there, which is awesome. Is there any opportunity for your incomes to grow sustainably to closer to 20 grand?

[Caller]

Yeah, I just started this job last January and in my first year I doubled my salary from the previous year. And there's potential for that to grow again and then in the coming years.

[Jade Warshaw]

So wait a minute. At one point this mortgage was even higher if you just now doubled your salary.

[Caller]

No, we. So what we have done is the community we live in has a lot of garage apartments that allow us to be able to take some of that income. So we actually rented out our garage apartment for the last two years. That brought in around fifteen hundred dollars a month.

[Jade Warshaw]

Understood.

[Caller]

On top of that.

[George Camel]

So on top of the 12 or so that you're bringing in.

[Host/Announcer]

12.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Camel]

Okay, yeah. I think I would feel good about this. If we can make sure that both of our incomes are going up and over the next year there's a trajectory to get to that, you know, 20ish mark. Because this mortgage isn't. It's only going to go up at this point because of property taxes and insurance increasing. Correct. So the only thing you could do to lower the payment long term is refinance or do like a recast. If you have a lump sum payment you make on that principle, you could recast it. And then it'll just lower that monthly payment while keeping the same balance and term. So those are the only two options you have other than selling downsizing. Are there cheaper homes in the same neighborhood that would allow you to keep the community?

[Caller]

Not at the same size, no.

[George Camel]

You got four kids.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you have no savings to speak of anywhere?

[Caller]

I have some, but not much. We would certainly like to build more margin in those areas. We're kind of at the point where we. We're just now starting to get a little bit into that margin. But how old are you at a point? If the air conditioner goes wrong, it's a bad luck.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

I am 39 years old.

[Jade Warshaw]

39. And there's nothing in retirement? Hardly.

[George Camel]

No.

[Caller]

No retirement to speak of.

[George Camel]

See, that's that I was in ministry.

[Caller]

For 20 years and was kind of barely making it for.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm worried. I'm gonna tell you my worry, and it's probably your worry, too. I'm worried that if you hang on to this too long, you're going to miss out on valuable years of investing because it's going to take some time to. To get this down. Because even to George's point, if you say you start going on a positive trajectory for the next year, even if you get it down to 40%, it's still going to be taking away from your ability to do that. You know, we. That's really 25% is where you want to be. And even at 30, it's kind of like you can do it, but I'd love for you to get it a little lower. Right, Right. So I, I'm a little nervous about that. I'm a little nervous. I'm not gonna lie.

[Caller]

I'm at the point where I. I know the, the financial. The smartest move financially would be to sell and take that money and to invest and start building that. But the, the part that's hard is the investment into my children.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's very tough. Is there. I mean, I feel you on that because I have young kids and I think about the same thing sometimes. Part of that, though, I will say, when you have a great community, part of that is you as well, because that means that you're the type of person who, when you see other people, you speak, you remember people's names, you make an effort. Right. So part of that's on you.

[George Camel]

And yeah, the fallacy is if we moved anywhere else else, we would never have a great community. And so you kind of have to take that part off the table because it's justifying staying in a, in a bad situation because the overall fears and you feel this too is the dream home turns into a nightmare retirement and you can't accomplish any financial goals. But we can just survive in the house.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

For the time being. And your payroll's not going down anytime soon. You got four younger kids.

[Jade Warshaw]

How old are they?

[Caller]

They're. I've got from one year to 11 years.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And the 11 year old old, before you know it, they're going to be looking at college. So these are the things that are knocking on your door in the next six years or so.

[George Camel]

I would give it a time.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sell their house.

[George Camel]

Yeah. I would give it a timeline and I would you and your wife sit down together and start to map out a plan and bust our butts to figure out what we can do career wise if we want to keep this lifestyle up. Here's what it's going to take income wise and that means taking home 20 grand and the mortgage is now 5 or 6,000 of that. And if you can get to that point in the next year and that might mean, hey, I got to start my own business here or you're going to have to go do this on the side to try to figure this out and see if it's sustainable. And if after a year you're still in the same shape, I would go, all right, I'm 40 now. We tried. We're going to have to make a hard call to, to move neighborhoods and downsize and take our, you know, probably 700 something thousand in net proceeds and roll that into another house either with cash or take on a very small money mortgage to so that you guys can breathe. Cuz making 12, your mortgage should be closer to like 3,000, 4,000 max versus 6,000. And so these are the hard choices to make. But I, you're very thoughtful about this and this is a conversation for you and your wife to decide the timeline. We can't do it for you. Nothing's on fire. But you can see the fire in the distance. That's the fear here. Joey, we're rooting for you. Man it.

[Host/Announcer]

When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results. You have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan. And that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com start, answer some questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay stuck. Take control of your money starting today. Today go with ramseysolutions.com start.

[George Camel]

All right, let's talk real estate, Jade, shall we? It's on a lot of people's minds right now.

[Jade Warshaw]

Indeed it is. Indeed it is.

[George Camel]

Buying or selling a home is a big deal. And there's a lot of clickbait headlines out there. Conflicting data, fear mongering, and it's hard to know what's really happening in the market. So we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices dipped a bit last month to about 426,000, a typical season shift as we head into the fall. And buyers have more options and negotiating power and sellers face a little more competition. Mortgage rates dipped slightly to five and a half percent in September. September. Giving some buyers breathing room. And since rates are unpredictable, do not try to time the market. Just buy when you're financially ready, not when rates drop or when you hope they drop. So to learn more about housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, head to ramseysolutions.com market or click the link in the show Notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Jessica is in New York City up next. Welcome to the Show, Jessica.

[Jade Warshaw]

Hello.

[Caller]

Five years ago, my father gave me $60,000 for a down payment on house. And he wrote a gift letter so that I believe legally I don't have to pay back that 60,000. But verbally, he asked me to either pay it back over the years or have it taken out of my inheritance. And every year, my father gives a gift to his children, to his four children in cash. And we can either take the cash or have it, you know, given back as part of loan repayments because we all use my dad as a bank in some way or another. And this year, my father very generously wants to give us 10,000, which is a huge amount. And he wrote me an email saying I could take the 10,000 in cash, but he really wants me to start paying back the loan with interest. It's now 71,000. I didn't know there was. Interesting. I know.

[Jade Warshaw]

So, wait, he gives $10,000 every year? But that part is the gift.

[Caller]

It could be a thousand. It's like his Christmas present.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got you.

[George Camel]

And he decides each year, this year it's a big one, it's 10,000. And he's saying he's going to withhold that because you haven't paid back his loan. Gift plus, interesting.

[Caller]

I could take the cash if I want, but he encourages me to start repaying the loan.

[Jade Warshaw]

Did you Know the loan had interest?

[Caller]

No.

[George Camel]

Is this written anywhere? This was just a verbal hey, you. And he expects that to hold up?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Goodness just feels toxic. Is your dad controlling?

[Caller]

Not really. He shows love, I would say, by giving money, you know, that's his connection to his children.

[George Camel]

But he gives it and then he's. Is he going to come back around and say, hey, I gave you 10,000 for Christmas. I would expect that back. It's like some point.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Why was the 60,000 suddenly alone when everything else is a gift? Is that him trying to build some sort of responsibility into you? What. What's the meaning of that?

[Caller]

I'm not sure. I'm. I know he. He's done it for all of his other children. They. He helps them buy houses, but I don't know the details of their financial situations, like how much he gave to each of them and. And who's paid it back and who has it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, I. If I were in your shoes, I'd be trying to get out of this loan as fast as possible because I don't like the way it feels.

[George Camel]

What'd you use the 60 grand on?

[Caller]

A down payment for a house.

[George Camel]

Okay. And you're living in that house now?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

With. Is it just you or do you. Are you married?

[Caller]

I just got married a few months ago.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. What's your husband saying about this? Does he know?

[Caller]

He does know. I did talk about it with him, and he said, don't put it in writing. Don't respond to the email saying that I acknowledge the. That there is a loan and just to wait it out and see what happens with an inheritance, whenever that may be. Who knows if it's five years, 10 years, 30 years.

[George Camel]

Yeah. But in the meantime, your relationship with.

[Jade Warshaw]

Your father is destroyed and apparently interest is accruing.

[George Camel]

Yeah. I did the math for you. It's about 3.4% compound interest.

[Jade Warshaw]

Did he give you the option for it to be taken out of your inheritance? Did he give you that option option?

[Caller]

Not in this recent email. That's just what I remember him saying, you know, five years ago, I'd do that.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'd say, yeah, dad, if you want to take it out of my inheritance, that's good. And I'd get that in writing so that it's. You're free and clear, because that's money that you don't have yet. It's not affecting your life today. So. And you know. Yeah, I do that.

[George Camel]

Can you afford to pay him back the 60 grand in a reasonable amount of time?

[Caller]

No, I could if he keeps Giving me 10,000 a year, I could keep telling him, sure, put it back towards the loan and it would be paid back.

[George Camel]

That's what I was going to say. Will he just apply the 10,000, say, hey, dad, just take that off my loan balance, which gets me to 61,000. Back to square one. He would do that?

[Caller]

Yes, I could do that.

[George Camel]

That's going to take so silly.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's going to take seven years.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

While interest accrues, it'll just keep climbing back up and then get knocked back down a little bit.

[Jade Warshaw]

Ask him if he'll take it out of the inheritance.

[George Camel]

Can you like call him instead of like emailing like a transactional bank? Just the whole thing feels odd to me.

[Caller]

It's really more of a moral question. That's why I called, because I just wasn't sure how to handle the situation and really if I should even try to pay it back. I think back the loan.

[Jade Warshaw]

If it was a loan and you knew it was a loan, you have to pay it back. Now, the interest part, I don't really like that he added that and you didn't know about it. But I do think that if he has said I can just take it out of your inheritance, I'd go that route. I just want it in writing so that this is over and done. The transactional part, I hate that it's like that. But we're here now, so you may as well cover your butt and get the fact that the whole loan is going to be free and clear covered in your inheritance.

[George Camel]

Well, it's going to be hilarious. As part of the inheritance, he's going to go, well, it's now $150,000 balance on this fake loan, so that's how much I'm going to take out of your inheritance. Curtains.

[Caller]

Well, that's what I worry about.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'd want it at the present value, not at a later value.

[George Camel]

At this point, I would say, hey, dad, we never did this in writing. We should have. That's both of our bad. We need something in writing to make this really clear of what your expectations are. Because I'm frustrated because you didn't explain any of this to me and Now I owe $11,000 more to bank of dad while he's trying to gift me other money. This whole thing is strange and I don't know if you can see it because of your relationship with. But there's just something odd about all of this.

[Jade Warshaw]

I don't think I'd take any more money.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And this is why we tell people, don't loan your family money ever. If you want to gift it, gift it and do it joyfully and don't expect it back. But this whole, like, it's a gift as far as the IRS is concerned, but it's a loan secretly and verbally. You can see how messy this stuff can get.

[Caller]

Yes, I appreciate that.

[George Camel]

Morally, do I think you're a bad person if you don't pay it back and it gets taken out of the inheritance? No. But in the meantime, again, the relationship with your dad is gone as far as you know it. If this isn't taken care of because this is looming in his mind every Thanksgiving, every Christmas, when he's about to gift you more money, he's going, yeah, but should I. She owes me money and hasn't paid me a dime back. So either get on a payment plan or decide it's going to be part of the inheritance at the current rate and just move on with your life. But I don't think we can stay at this status quo that we're all. And, oh, man, that hurts my heart, Jade, because I just, like, I'm trying to picture myself in that dad's shoes, giving or loaning my daughter, my grown daughter, money. And I just hate power relationship. Yeah. It just puts. It makes you the lender and, you know, the debtor. And I just think that makes an awkward relationship for someone that you raise, that you love. If you love them and you want this to be a gift, let it be. And if you're not comfortable with that, don't loan the money. Just say, hey, wish I could help. I can't.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[George Camel]

And don't co sign. Don't do any of that. The middle ground is where things get messy when you want to help. But it's kind of a loan.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. It's just give people money, especially. Especially your family. I'm thinking about my kids right now, and I'm thinking, yeah, if the time came and Sam and I wanted to help them, we would just help them. And it almost feels like anything else is an attempt to kind of try to control them from beyond.

[George Camel]

That's what I think. There's something more to this, and we couldn't pinpoint it.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm gonna teach them responsibility, so I'm gonna.

[George Camel]

But I just wonder if he likes having a little bit of control. Because once kids are adults, they're kind of out of your control.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. So you have to do things to.

[George Camel]

Get the Spidey web.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Yeah.

[George Camel]

Cast your Spidey web on them, so you have a little bit of connection there. Even if it's not a true, honest, authentic connection, it's still something that ties me to them that they can't get away.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sometimes parents do that, though. It's so subconscious. Like they don't realize that that's the why behind what they're doing. Gotta be careful.

[George Camel]

Yeah. I just hope my kids know I love them more than. Well, they show their love through money giving or loaning. I just. I want them to know that's the last thing on the list.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's good, George.

[George Camel]

So that's just one man's take as a dad of a young daughter. Take it with a grain of sal.

[Host/Announcer]

You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets. I recommend using Ramsey trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you. Like we would find what you [e-mail] insurance.

[George Camel]

Joshua is in Greenville, South Carolina. Up next, what's going on, Joshua?

[Caller]

Hey, J.D. hey, George. How are y' all doing?

[George Camel]

Great.

[Caller]

Thanks for answering my call.

[Host/Announcer]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

What's going on with you today?

[Caller]

So I am struggling with. Got offered my dream, basically dream law enforcement job. I used to be in law enforcement. Long story short, about a year and a half ago, I made a. Made an officer safety mistake. I started searching an individual and I missed a firearm and brought him into the jail when I, when I was arresting him. And so they, they let me go for failing to conduct a proper search. So a guy that I used to work with, he's now works at a different law enforcement department and offered me a traffic position like their, their traffic unit. Basically just stopping cars all day. When I got fired, I became a truck driver because my whole. My whole family is in truck. The trucking industry. So I just figured it was a. That's. That's the best thing to do is just go get my cdl and start driving trucks.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[Caller]

It is a significant pay cut. And my. My wife doesn't really want me to. To go into law enforcement, go back into law enforcement. But I just. I really feel like that's my calling. So I'm just trying to figure out how, how can I have that conversation with her that this is where. Where I feel God's calling me to, to be.

[Jade Warshaw]

So this is not, this is not financial at the core. This is safety at the core. Is that what it is?

[George Camel]

What's the root of her not wanting?

[Caller]

She. Yeah, I think it's more so safety. As far as you know, I may get to work and not, not come home.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Is this position safer than your previous law enforcement position or. It's about the same.

[Caller]

No, it's about the same.

[Jade Warshaw]

Or is it worse?

[George Camel]

The difference is you're in the road and that puts you, you know, it's a little more hazardous in that regard.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Yeah. But I mean trucking is, isn't the safest job out there either.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, it's not the healthiest either.

[Caller]

No, I, I also, I, I haul gasoline, so that's, that's an extra layer of danger.

[George Camel]

A super flammable. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. I will say so. I stay away from those trucks when I'm on the road.

[George Camel]

Yeah. If you give her facts and figures like hey, this is how many trucking accidents and injuries and deaths there are per year versus traffic, you know, department officers. Right. Could you convince her of that or is it more just like emotional this point?

[Caller]

I think it's more so emotional, but also it is, it is a significant pay cut. So like. Right, I do, I get VA disability. I get 4, 300amonth from the VA for my military cert. For my military service.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

And then I make before taxes about 1500 a week with. From the trucking. But I would be going down to about 55 or 60,000 a year. If I were to leave truck driving and go into law enforcement, it would equate to about a 20 to 25,000 a year pay cut.

[George Camel]

Okay. My math was giving me 10 or 15,000 pay cut because you're making 6k a month now, which is 72. And you're saying you'd make 55 to 60, so. Right.

[Caller]

But then also. Well, I guess, yeah, okay. I guess I did my math wrong.

[George Camel]

I just want to make sure not it's not to point out you're wrong. It's more to say, let's get the facts on the table if we're going to talk to wife about this and go, okay, here's what this amounts to. We're going to have a thousand less per month gross coming in. Now can we survive off of my 4300 plus the other 4000 should be up to. I hope so. And that's, that's where I think it would help to actually make a budget based on what you would be making, making and then go, okay, how does this life feel? Does it feel tight? Can we still accomplish our goals? Can we still retire with dignity? And then we can talk about the safety implications of the new role and how she feels about that. But do you think it's something where, over time she could change her mind about this? If you kind of laid out the facts and figures?

[Caller]

I mean, I. I think so.

[George Camel]

Is she working as well outside the home?

[Caller]

No, no, she's a stay at home mom.

[George Camel]

Okay. Does that add to this of her. Of her sort of the safety gland, security gland flaring up here when you're the single income?

[Caller]

I mean, I guess if.

[George Camel]

Yeah, yeah. You guys have. You have life insurance?

[Caller]

I actually just got a quote the other day through Xander, but we have not actually gone like gotten the life insurance yet.

[George Camel]

Good. I would do that asap. And don't delay on that because here's the thing. The more I know that my family's protected, the better I feel about whatever's going to happen. And that's this. We're betting on the, you know, the worst case scenario. I hope you live a long, full life with no injuries or accidents. But the truth is we just don't know what life's going to throw at us, no matter what career you're in. And so the more you can show her that you're being proactive, I think the better she'll feel about this. And it may take a little bit of time. You know, one month in is scary. Four months into this conversation, maybe she'll be warming up to it. I don't know. Okay. But I mean, this is going to be a constant conversation in the house and she's probably going to get sick of it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I. I mean, my take on it is they both. I mean, obviously law enforcement has a level of danger.

[George Camel]

You did that for how long?

[Jade Warshaw]

Your other job does, too.

[George Camel]

Yeah, both jobs are dangerous. So it's not like you're choosing one that's a desk job and one that's, you know, risking your life. So that's where I think logic would help, but that's where I was trying to get to the bottom of where your wife is is at on this because the pay cut doesn't concern me that much.

[Jade Warshaw]

Much of a.

[George Camel]

Because you have your 4300, which is stable, and you're not going. You're not cutting the income in half.

[Jade Warshaw]

So how much is your mortgage?

[Caller]

1700Amonth.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. You'll be all right.

[George Camel]

That's reasonable. And do you guys have any debt?

[Caller]

I have. We were actually wearing baby step two. So I have a two credit cards that are $1,000 each and a $20,000 truck, and that's it.

[George Camel]

Okay, here, here would be my stipulation. If you talked her and said, hey, I'm not going to make any moves until we're completely debt free with a fully funded emergency fund and life insurance in place, and I'm gonna make sure to work my butt off to get her income back up. Would that change the conversation with her?

[Caller]

That probably would.

[George Camel]

Or, hey, I'm willing to sell my truck to get us to a better place financially to make this move. Would that light her up to go, oh, my goodness, who is this person? Probably, I would try all of the above to show her how serious you are about this, how passionate you are about this, this. And I think over time, if you make all of these moves happen, you lay it all on the table, you actually act the part and do all the work, like I mentioned, I think it'll change the way she sees this. And even then, there's may always just be a part of her that doesn't like that you did this. But at the end of the day, it's either you being miserable in a trucking job and still have some safety issues, or you being really happy in this new position. Back to what you feel calm, called to do.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, because there's part of this where I'm thinking, you've been doing this job. You were law enforcement the whole time, for the most part that you've been together. So it's not like you made this radical change into this crazy field that she had no idea you were, you know, headed towards. So that's the only reason I. I think it's okay.

[George Camel]

Man, that is tough. I'm just picturing you driving around with gasoline in the back, and she's like, well, that feels a whole lot safer.

[Jade Warshaw]

Doesn't feel good to me than you.

[George Camel]

Standing up outside of a church directing traffic or on a construct, you know.

[Jade Warshaw]

While they're doing traffic stops. That's. I mean, you got to pull people over. You don't know who's in that car. That window goes down.

[George Camel]

That's the question. Is he doing traffic stops? Is it more, you know? Yeah, I just see them out there on Sundays. You know, I think construction jobs or accidents, you know, they might be out there for an accident. And that can be, you know, that's. That can be scary. There's definitely some safety concerns there, but I just feel like it's. It's not apples to apples, and neither are safe. So let's at Least be realistic. I about what the options are.

[Jade Warshaw]

He's living life on the edge. He likes it there.

[George Camel]

He wants to be out there in the action.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, he does. Somebody needs to do it.

[George Camel]

Yeah, but the other part is in the truck world, it just does feel like there's. It's hard to be healthy. It's hard to live a long, full life and be physically healthy.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're going into Walmart, you're sleeping in the cab, you're eating snacks.

[George Camel]

Mountain Dew, your quality of life. It's hard to keep that high while being in the trucking world.

[Jade Warshaw]

You'd probably have to work very hard to make sure you're getting the exercise you need. Moving your body. Body. Eating healthy. Yeah. Sleeping well.

[George Camel]

It's a lot, man. Both tough jobs. I don't know if you asked me to pick one. Oh, I don't know. I probably would choose. I don't like being. Just driving that thing would freak me out.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think I'd choose lawn.

[George Camel]

Oh, boy, that's a good one. I see you pulling me over and I'd try to break you to see if I can get out of a ticket. And you would not be having it today.

[Jade Warshaw]

Nope. I'd have my notepad.

[George Camel]

State trooper war shot.

[Jade Warshaw]

Did you know you were speeding?

[George Camel]

Oh, man, that. We need to make a skit about that. That's good.

[Jade Warshaw]

Your license is expired. Hey, guys, it's Rachel Cruz and I've.

[Caller]

Got great news for you.

[George Camel]

The Ramsey Christmas cash giveaway is we.

[Jade Warshaw]

Are giving away $500 every week plus.

[Caller]

A grand prize of $5,000 in cash. Listen, you can enter daily to boost your chances of winning and there's no purchase necessary. Just go to ramseysolutions.comgiveaway. that's ramseysolutions.comgiveaway.

[Jade Warshaw]

Good luck, you guys.

[George Camel]

Our scripture of the day, James 1:5. If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given to him. Jim Collins said bad decisions made with good intentions are still bad decisions.

[Jade Warshaw]

We get that all the time on the show here. Lot of good you had the right idea in mind. Just did it the wrong way.

[George Camel]

Well, I thought if they needed a co signer, I thought I should co sign to help them out. It's a bad decision with good intentions. It's a bad decision.

[Jade Warshaw]

Still bad.

[George Camel]

Rachel's in Minneapolis. Up next. What's going on, Rachel? How can we help today?

[Caller]

Hey, George. Hey, Jade. Thanks for taking my call.

[George Camel]

Absolutely.

[Caller]

I am 29 years old and single. I Was living with a roommate back in June. But I moved back home with my mom to help her out with the mortgage. She's having trouble trouble paying it. She's 62. She doesn't have any retirement. She actually had to liquid. Well, didn't have to catch my verbiage there. She liquidated it back when my parents were married because she. They were in a bunch of debt and the divorce was really hard on her. This is like 15 years ago.

[Host/Announcer]

But.

[Caller]

I'm on baby step two. I've paid about $8,000 down on all my debts. I've got three left, so I'll be out of debt very soon here. But I'm just wondering, do I move out and just do life on my own or. My heart is telling me that I should, as the oldest sibling, I should help my mom pay off this mortgage because she only makes about 30,000 a year and she can't afford it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is she in bad health? Is she sick?

[Caller]

No, no, she's in great health.

[Jade Warshaw]

Then no.

[George Camel]

Here's the problem. Let's play this out. This is the rest of your life life. Do you really see a world where mom is like crushing it and has a paid off mortgage and has retirement, or is this you needing to basically prop up mom's life while it stuns your growth personally, professionally, financially? Yeah, and that's the hard truth. So the next part is, well, then how do we get mom to a better place financially where she's still independent and doesn't need me or my money to survive? That's the ideal scenario. Right? So then it becomes okay, could we sell the house and downsize or have her rent and still cover all her bills and have some left over? That would be my solution if she can do that. So what is the house worth on Dillo?

[Caller]

It says it's about 304.

[George Camel]

And what does she owe?

[Caller]

133.

[George Camel]

Okay, so she's got some good equity in this.

[Jade Warshaw]

Would she be open to that idea or no?

[Caller]

No. I mean, I've asked her what her plan is, long term, and she's like, well, I'll just, you know, sell the house one day, live off of that and live with one of you guys. I have two younger brothers and did.

[George Camel]

You tell her that's not an option?

[Caller]

I. Yeah. I've been listening to your show over the last month now and I've learned boundaries, or, you know, you gotta set healthy boundaries.

[George Camel]

Planning to be a burden is a bad plan. And that's what she's doing.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And as long as you're communicating that to her. And it's not just a cause. Sometimes what happens is people are like, I have a boundary. That's not gonna happen. But it's like, internal. You haven't told them. So as long as you're telling them verbally and it's an expectation that you're saying here, this is my boundary. I just wanna make sure, you know, I plan on being married with children. And by the time you're ready to, you know, know, live, move in with me, I might be getting married. I might be in a part of my time in my life where I don't want an extra person living in the house. So I'm letting you know that today, while you're still very young and you still have, you know, 10 years to really financially affect your situation. We had a call like this earlier today, but I want to tell you, Rachel, that sometimes we do have a picture in our mind of especially people we love how their life should look, whether it's your kids or. Or even your parents, especially as they get older. We kind of create, oh, this fairy tale of what we think it should be like. And then when it's not like that, we put so much effort into trying to make it like that. And we'll go to extents. We'll go. I. I feel it like we'll go to so many extents to create the life that we saw for our own parent. And you just can't do that because it's you trying to control. And you're like Gepetta, trying to, you know, control the way the story ends. And you just. Sometimes you just have to throw your hands up and go, it's not my life. And to quote John, you kind of have to grieve that and go, man, I thought it was going to be one way. And it looks like she's kind of going to struggle unless if you didn't.

[George Camel]

Intercede, she's going to get foreclosed on if she misses enough mortgage payments. She knows that, right?

[Caller]

Yeah. And I mean, my brothers and I would have stepped in, but I partially feel guilty because I'm getting a good deal living here. Like, we're splitting the mortgage, so I'm paying, know, 775, which is significantly cheaper than anywhere else. I would get rent, so.

[George Camel]

And that's half the mortgage.

[Caller]

Like, I can get. Yeah, yeah, we're splitting it right now, so the minimum payments like 15. But, like, I'm. She's helping me out in a way because I'm saving money, able to pay off my debt, and I'm going to start building up my emergency fund and saving up for a down payment.

[George Camel]

But at some point, you're going to move on with your life and maybe get married. And so it's artificially propping up her life right now because she. She makes what, a little over $2,000 a month?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And her mortgage alone is 1500. And that doesn't include insurance, food, utilities.

[Jade Warshaw]

But you guys are in the same situation the same way. You're using this as an advantage and saying, oh, I can lower my expenses by living with her. And in the meantime, now I can take my extra money and do this. She can do the same thing. She can say, oh, this is a great time. I can take advantage of the time that my daughter's here covering half the mortgage now I can go out. If I make more money, I can make more headway with it. Do you see what I'm saying? You're in the same boat. You're just choosing to take the paddle and row forward, and she's just leaving the paddle in the boat and hoping that you'll row for her.

[George Camel]

And planning to live off of $150,000 for the rest of her life is insane. And I don't know if she knows that yet. And I guess she's assuming that you all are just going to fund her life and pay all of her bills so she won't have to. To even touch that money. But you need to make it clear that's not gonna work. That's not the plan as much as she wants it to be the plan. And so that might be convincing her that she needs to sell this house and downsize to a $200,000 condo or townhome, something she can afford, maybe further out than she wants to be so that she can afford this mortgage. So the mortgage is $600 instead of 1,500. And now she can survive on her own. It's not a great life. She still needs to get her income come up because she's going to have to work for the foreseeable future. Right. She has no retirement, no savings.

[Caller]

So we did actually stumble upon a $33,000 pension that we're rolling over into an IRA, like a. A Roth IRA.

[Jade Warshaw]

Good.

[Caller]

So I was planning on putting it in some. Some mutual funds, like you guys suggest. So hopefully, you know, every seven years, it'll double. So I'm. We've got that.

[George Camel]

At least that's something. Maybe one day she can utilize that. It's not enough. It's not like. Woo.

[Jade Warshaw]

It doesn't.

[George Camel]

It's like finding 20 bu in your old coat pocket. It's not like winning the lottery. So it's great. But she still needs something sustainable. And I don't know why she's only making $14 an hour at 62. What is she doing full time?

[Caller]

She's a tailor, but she also sells custom men's clothing, so that feels more.

[Jade Warshaw]

Like a side job.

[George Camel]

Is that like commission?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Okay. Yeah. I would try to find something that's she needs something stable. Right. Right now. And if she has that skill set, I think she can be making more if she's hustling. I know it's not fun at 62 to be working harder than you've ever worked, but you need to let her feel the fire that's in her life right now.

[Jade Warshaw]

And she's, she's healthy. Man, 60s, a new 40. Yeah.

[George Camel]

I mean, that's younger than Dave Ramsey and that man is not stopping.

[Jade Warshaw]

He's working all day, every day. Yeah, I, I think you got to give her more credit. She's, she's not elderly. She's not, you know, know. It's not like she can't go out and do some hard work today. Yeah.

[George Camel]

Can she go work at a different shop and do tailoring?

[Caller]

I've asked her about, you know, increasing her income and she is, I don't know, she's just not very motivated. Like, she's just like, I can't go.

[George Camel]

Out and you know what motivated her not being able to make her mortgage payment. Because daughter moved out and now I have to do this.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[George Camel]

And right now, now there's a little bit of almost enabling to where she's a little comfortable because she's got you to float the gaps. Right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And I think discomfort is what she actually needs right now. As cruel as it actually feels, it's the healthiest thing you can do for a grown adult to get them on their own feet versus artificially propping them up. So I'm so sorry going through this. It is so much easier said than done. And if this was my own mom, I would be having the same feelings as you. You'd want to do anything to help them out. But again, you're not in a place of strength to even help her out. You're also struggling financially, trying to pay off debt. If you had multi million dollars, I'd say, hey, just pay off our mortgage and, and you know, help her out here, but you're just not in a position to do that. At this stage of your life, and that's okay. So good luck with the conversations. I hope we can get her to a sustainable place, to where she feels motivated, independent. And you're not her retirement plan. That puts this hour, the Ramsey show, in the books. Until next time. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.