Break the Cycle of Financial Self-Sabotage

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show - "Break the Cycle of Financial Self-Sabotage"

Release Date: February 13, 2025
Host: Rachel Cruze & Dr. John DeLoney
Description: The Ramsey Show empowers listeners to build wealth and take control of their lives, addressing financial challenges and fostering healthy relationships.

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Introduction and Overview

Rachel Cruze opens the episode alongside Dr. John DeLoney, setting the stage for addressing listeners' financial and relational dilemmas. They highlight the ongoing Money and Marriage Getaway event, emphasizing community support and live interactions.

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Caller Segment 1: Brian from Billings, Montana - Navigating Divorce and Debt [01:06 – 08:45]

Situation: Brian is entangled in a divorce after purchasing a house with his soon-to-be ex-wife. Post-purchase, his wife accrued $10,000 in credit card debt, leading Brian to struggle with repayments while considering whether to keep or sell the house.

Key Points:

• Financial Strain: Brian earns $4,400/month with a house payment of $2,360, leaving minimal funds to tackle the debt.
• Potential Income Increase: Brian is an electrician apprentice aiming for a significant pay bump to $6,000/month soon.
• Emotional Decision-Making: Rachel emphasizes the importance of detaching emotionally from financial decisions, advising Brian to consider selling the house if affordability remains an issue.

Notable Quotes:

• Brian: “It just seems like at this rate, it's going to take forever to pay these credit cards off.” [01:06]
• Rachel: “Keeping it, Brian, was probably an emotional knee-jerk reaction for you.” [08:16]

Advice Given:

• Assess Affordability: Evaluate whether the current income suffices for maintaining the house and debt repayment.
• Consult Professionals: Engage a realtor to get an accurate market value and explore the feasibility of selling.
• Prioritize Financial Health: If keeping the house strains finances, selling may prevent further monetary bleeding.

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Caller Segment 2: Elizabeth from Philadelphia - Balancing Career and Motherhood [12:07 – 20:18]

Situation: Elizabeth, a licensed realtor pursuing her broker's license, chose to stay home with her two-year-old son. She struggles with contentment in this role while aspiring to advance her real estate career.

Key Points:

• Identity Shift: Transitioning from a director in mental health to a stay-at-home mom creates a sense of loss and regret.
• Desire for Productivity: Elizabeth misses the structure and purpose of her previous career, feeling unfulfilled.

Notable Quotes:

• Elizabeth: “But I just have like this hope for the future based on our plans.” [35:11]
• Rachel: “Parenting can be super boring. It can be catastrophically boring.” [17:34]

Advice Given:

• Explore Hybrid Roles: Consider part-time work or flexible arrangements that allow balancing motherhood with career aspirations.
• Set Boundaries and Goals: Define clear financial and personal goals to create a sense of purpose and progress.
• Seek Support Networks: Building a community or 'gang,' as suggested, can provide emotional and practical support.

Additional Insights: The discussion delves into the psychological impacts of shifting roles, emphasizing the need for self-compassion and strategic planning to align personal fulfillment with financial stability.

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Inspiring Success Story: Tommy and Rebecca from California [21:30 – 30:21]

Situation: Tommy and Rebecca attended the Money and Marriage Getaway, sharing their journey of paying off their $644,000 mortgage in three years, achieving debt freedom.

Key Points:

• Aggressive Debt Repayment: Leveraging joint income of $350,000, they prioritized paying off the mortgage to eliminate the largest debt.
• Lifestyle Adjustments: Reduced spending, significant savings sacrifices, and unwavering commitment were crucial to their success.
• Emotional and Relational Strength: Their partnership and shared goals fostered resilience and mutual support.

Notable Quotes:

• Tommy: “We paid off the house completely.” [22:22]
• Rebecca: “This is the pinnacle but it’s so possible.” [30:19]

Advice Given:

• Commit to a Debt-Free Plan: Setting clear, achievable goals and sticking to a budget can lead to substantial financial freedom.
• Foster a Supportive Partnership: Strong communication and shared financial goals are essential for overcoming large debts.
• Celebrate Milestones: Recognizing achievements, like their "debt free scream," reinforces positive financial behaviors.

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Caller Segment 3: Emily from Minneapolis - Complex Home Purchase with Family Dynamics [31:48 – 40:57]

Situation: Emily seeks advice on purchasing her grandmother's house involving her father and boyfriend. Her father struggles with alcoholism, affecting his financial reliability, and her boyfriend lacks sufficient income and has poor credit.

Key Points:

• Multiple Stakeholders: Balancing financial contributions from her father and boyfriend complicates the home-buying process.
• Credit and Income Challenges: The combined credit and income levels make securing a mortgage difficult.
• Emotional Guilt and Obligations: Emily feels an obligation to support her father financially, despite recognizing it's not her responsibility.

Notable Quotes:

• Emily: “Please, please, please don't do this.” [33:04]
• Rachel: “Give yourself some grace, Elizabeth.” [19:07] (Note: Attribution might be mixed here; however, Original transcript needs careful identification.)

Advice Given:

• Avoid Financial Entanglements: Rachel strongly advises against mixing business with personal relationships, emphasizing the risks of joint financial ventures.
• Prioritize Personal Financial Health: Focus on individual financial stability before considering joint investments or purchases.
• Seek Professional Guidance: Engaging with financial peace courses and getting professional advice can help navigate complex situations.

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Caller Segment 4: Courtney from Raleigh, North Carolina - Debt Consolidation Dilemma [43:05 – 51:57]

Situation: Courtney is contemplating selling her $23,000 vehicle loan to pay off $4,000 in credit card debt, aiming to buy a more affordable car. She seeks advice on whether debt consolidation is a viable solution.

Key Points:

• Underwater Loan: Currently owes more on her car than its value, making selling a challenge.
• Credit Implications: Concerned about her credit standing and the impact of selling on her financial profile.
• Alternative Solutions: Consider private sales over dealership offers to maximize return and avoid further debt.

Notable Quotes:

• Courtney: “I just have like this hope for the future.” [49:54]
• Rachel: “Don't play that game.” [46:55]

Advice Given:

• Opt for Private Sales: Typically yield higher returns compared to dealership offers, aiding in breaking even or reducing debt.
• Adjust Financial Strategies: Instead of debt consolidation, focus on earning extra income through side hustles to expedite debt repayment.
• Prudent Asset Management: Encourage selling high-depreciation assets and opting for more affordable alternatives to maintain financial health.

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Caller Segment 5: Susie from Phoenix, Arizona - Rebuilding Trust After Financial Betrayal [65:10 – 74:45]

Situation: Susie grapples with trusting her husband after discovering he moved their savings to another account and made financial decisions without her consent. Additionally, she's dealing with the aftermath of an emotional affair.

Key Points:

• Repeated Betrayals: Susie's husband has continuously moved funds and made unilateral financial decisions, eroding trust.
• Emotional Impact: The emotional affair compounded feelings of betrayal and mistrust.
• Rebuilding Trust: Establishing transparency and joint financial oversight are critical steps towards healing.

Notable Quotes:

• Susie: “He couldn’t explain it.” [65:40]
• Rachel: “This is a marriage issue.” [72:18]

Advice Given:

• Conduct a Financial Audit: Thoroughly review all financial accounts and transactions to gain clarity and transparency.
• Set Clear Financial Boundaries: Define what is acceptable in financial decision-making to prevent future betrayals.
• Seek Professional Counseling: Address both financial and relational issues through therapy to facilitate healing and rebuild trust.
• Prioritize Personal Financial Awareness: Ensure Susie has full access and understanding of all financial aspects to regain control and confidence.

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Caller Segment 6: Ashton from Madison, Wisconsin - Unequal Business Partnership [75:16 – 84:53]

Situation: Ashton runs a residential painting company with a childhood friend, splitting profits 50/50 despite being the sole full-time operator while his partner attends school and only works intermittently.

Key Points:

• Unequal Contributions: Ashton bears the majority of operational responsibilities without corresponding financial compensation.
• Frustration with Partnership: Despite multiple discussions, Ashton's partner remains unresponsive to adjusting the profit-sharing arrangement.
• Business Growth Concerns: The current setup hampers business expansion and Ashton's personal satisfaction.

Notable Quotes:

• Ashton: “He just doesn’t back down on it.” [76:41]
• Rachel: “You’re not going to trust him as far as I can see him.” [81:53]

Advice Given:

• Reevaluate Partnership Terms: Adjust profit-sharing to reflect actual contributions and responsibilities.
• Consider Dissolving the Partnership: If adjustments are unfeasible, Ashton should contemplate ending the partnership to pursue his business independently.
• Implement Clear Agreements: Formalize business arrangements with written contracts to prevent future misunderstandings.
• Maintain Professional Boundaries: Separate personal friendships from business dealings to ensure mutual respect and accountability.

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Conclusion

Throughout the episode, Rachel Cruze and Dr. John DeLoney offer empathetic and practical financial advice, addressing a spectrum of listener issues from debt management and marital financial struggles to business partnerships and personal financial independence. The recurring theme emphasizes the importance of clear communication, transparency, and strategic planning in overcoming financial self-sabotage and fostering healthy relationships.

Notable Takeaways:

• Prioritize Financial Health: Assess and align financial decisions with personal and familial well-being.
• Seek Professional Guidance: Utilize financial courses, professional advisors, and community support to navigate complex financial landscapes.
• Foster Trust and Transparency: Whether in marriage or business, establishing clear agreements and open communication is crucial.
• Adapt and Evolve: Remain flexible in financial strategies, adjusting plans as circumstances change to maintain stability and progress.

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This summary provides an overview of the key discussions and advice offered in "Break the Cycle of Financial Self-Sabotage" on The Ramsey Show. For detailed insights and personalized guidance, listening to the full episode is recommended.

Transcript

[Rachel Cruze]

Foreignsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with my good friend and best selling author Dr. John DeLoney. And we are answering your questions. So give us a call. Call at 888-825-5225. And I feel like we need to give a little shout out. This weekend is our money and marriage getaway. We have 600 Valentine's weekend, so we have 600 couples coming to Nashville and there's a bunch of them here in our lobby today watching the show, which is so fun. So we are here though live taking your calls. So give us a call talking about your life, your money, your relationships. And first up, we have Brian in Billings, Montana. Hey, Brian, welcome to the show.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey guys, thanks for having me.

[Rachel Cruze]

Absolutely. How can we help?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So my soon to be ex wife and I bought a house a year ago last February. And in this last October, she decided that she wanted a divorce. She already moved out and I decided to try and keep the house by myself. After we purchased the house, she racked up like $10,000 in credit card debt. And I've been working really hard to get this down, but it seems like after all the bills that I pay every month, I have like maybe an extra hundred dollars I can throw at it. And it just seems like at this rate, it's going to take forever to pay these credit cards off. And I don't know if it's smart to keep or sell the house at this point.

[Rachel Cruze]

Were the credit cards in your name that she racked up after the divorce?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They were.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, they were. And was this after the divorce?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, it was.

[Rachel Cruze]

We were still, still legally married. Okay. At that point.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

Can you afford to keep his place?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I make like 4400amonth and the house payment is 2360.

[Unknown Speaker]

You can't breathe, bro.

[Rachel Cruze]

What do you, what do you do for a living, Brian?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm an electrician apprentice. And hopefully next month I'll be able to take my journeyman's exam. So I would get a significant pay bump.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. What would that look like? How much? In an ideal world, how much would you be making?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Probably around 38 to 40 an hour.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, but per month, if you're at 4400 right now, what would you expect it to climb to? Like 6,000?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, that's, that's the hope.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. And what's the reality of that actually happening?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'd say there's probably, I don't know, 60% chance that I'd be able to.

[Rachel Cruze]

Make that happen and that's going to happen in the next month or two. Is that what you're saying?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, I would wait then, because in that case, I mean, if you're making. Yeah, I mean if you're making six grand a month, then that's about a quarter of your take home pay. I mean that's basically that, that is the parameters. But you, you got to get it. Yeah. I mean that, that has to be the case, Brian. And I think you have to emotionally be able to detach yourself that if it doesn't happen the way you think it's going to happen, that you, that you can't afford it. You can't afford this house on 4400amonth. Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

And I mean, brother is pretty tight on six.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, it's. I mean, it's tight right now.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Especially.

[Unknown Speaker]

So why do you want to keep this house? Like, let's pretend you weren't married making what you make now and even what you might potentially make. Would you walk in and buy this house? No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But the main thing for keeping it at the moment is that there's not any equity in it. And so we probably end up having to pay to sell the house.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. But even if you have to pay 3% or whatever, you're like, I just see most couples that go through divorce. One person wants the divorce just to happen and then the rest of their life just keep going on as it was. And it feels like you're bleeding money everywhere. You got this debt here, you got lawyer fees over there, you're gonna get court docket fee, you're gonna get just feed to death. And it's like playing whack a mole with all these different bills. The only folks I see be successful in this transition, dude. Are folks who understand everything about my life that was, is now over.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Unknown Speaker]

And really like metaphorically taking your arm and just swiping it across the table and saying, okay, would I buy this house right now? No. Okay, then I'm going to spend five grand getting out of it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Is the main motivation, Brian, to stay in because you feel like you're going to lose money or their kids involved and you're wanting to stay in for them or what? What's the main motivation?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Just the main is just because of the money aspect. I mean, I don't really.

[Unknown Speaker]

I'd call a realtor and get an actual real number in your head.

[Rachel Cruze]

What's making you think that? That? Well, because you Guys just bought it a year, like six months ago. Is that what you're saying?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, it basically in. I get like, an updated monthly report on it and.

[Rachel Cruze]

And you'll have to pay for capital gains because it's been under two years as well.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, there'll be. There'll be no gain.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, that's. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

I would get a realtor, dude. I'd get a realtor to get real.

[Rachel Cruze]

Numbers and run some comps, too, Brian, because I. Yeah, yeah, that's right. I think there's probably a lot of emotion wrapped up in this.

[Unknown Speaker]

And I have written a check. I wrote a check one time for like $4,600 to get out of a house, and it was the. It's the best. It's. It's one of the best money I've ever, ever. And they say nobody brings a check to closing. You get one, right? I did. I brought one. And within two months, I had basically paid myself back, if you will. And that started my entire process again. Yeah. Getting out of debt and just stop being chained.

[Rachel Cruze]

Everything. Yeah. And I think too underestimating the weight of feeling like I have to keep up a mortgage payment. It's your home. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, there's. There's an extra weight there that you're carrying because of it. It's not like a car loan that you can sell and kind of figure out when it's your home. There's like this. This desperation that sets in and. And not always making wise decisions. And I realized my math was bad.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, it's. It's 36.

[Rachel Cruze]

It was 30, but it was 30, wasn't 45.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's still pretty.

[Rachel Cruze]

It was like 38, 39%. So I'd.

[Unknown Speaker]

I'd sell it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

Unless they come back and say you're going to lose 60 or 70,000 bucks. How much does this house cost when you bought it?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We financed 295.

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay. Yeah. It.

[Rachel Cruze]

You.

[Unknown Speaker]

You'll probably spend up to 10 or 15 grand to write a check to get out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

And that would be a pain. That would be painful on top of everything else. How are you doing with the divorce? Yeah, mess.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's. It is what it is, I guess.

[Unknown Speaker]

No, it's not. It's not. It's not a real statement. That's what dudes from Montana say when they're trying to stop from. Just like cowboys from weeping. Yeah. How are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know, I'm not that great. You know, Past few months have been pretty. Pretty bad.

[Unknown Speaker]

You have little ones involved.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have a 19. Yeah, we have a 19 month old baby.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And we're just trying to navigate co parenting at this point. But. Yeah, I don't know. She just decided after three years that she was done and called it quits.

[Unknown Speaker]

I'm sorry, man. I'm sorry.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Me too. It kind of came out of nowhere. I really did not see it coming. And her parents and my parents and really nobody thought coming. And I think she's going through her own issues.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

But there's also something about not being able to hold your baby every night of the week that it's hard to breathe. Right. I get that it is. Yeah. I'm sorry, ma'am.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is it final, Brian? The divorce?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, it will be final next month.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. So terms and everything with the house. I get all of that is. Is completed.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, I mean technically we still. We filed the court documents and all that stuff. We have to go to a final hearing. She was signing the house over to.

[Unknown Speaker]

Be well and maybe you pause that now.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's what I'm wondering.

[Unknown Speaker]

I'm going to sell it and y'all going to split the cost of you getting out of the mortgage and you and. Or your attorney can make a case for. I can't afford this on my current salary so I'm going to have to sell it. And since she's the one who left then I'm going to ask her to bear the. The entire, or at least half of the burden of selling this house and getting out of it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Keeping it, Brian, was probably an emotional knee jerk reaction for you. But now that stuff is settling and it's not finalized. I mean I would. It's an option for sure because. Yeah. Calling the show, running the numbers. You can't afford it unless. Unless your income bumps up to eight to nine grand a month. But besides that, it's not worth it. So I would figure out a way out.

[Unknown Speaker]

Everybody who gets divorced, it just feels so common.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

Everybody I talk to underestimates how disruptive and how destructive it is. Just blows up everything.

[Rachel Cruze]

So difficult. Brian, thanks for the call. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down.

[Rachel Cruze]

AI will help us work or it.

[Unknown Speaker]

Will replace us all.

[Rachel Cruze]

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[Dr. John DeLoney]

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[Rachel Cruze]

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[Dr. John DeLoney]

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[Rachel Cruze]

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[Dr. John DeLoney]

At netsuite.com Ramsey it's free at netsuite.com Ramsey.

[Rachel Cruze]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show. And we are so excited. We said here in the first segment that we have a lobby full of attendees for our Money and marriage getaway this weekend. And we're so excited to announce the fall weekend event of Money and marriage running it back, coming back in 2025. So these are three incredible days to hang out with your spouse here in Nashville. And you'll join myself and John for a long weekend. And we're going to dive into some great content around money and around marriage, relationships, all of it. And we do live Q&As, we interact a lot. I just feel like there's like this, this energy about this event that is so fun. It is such a fun weekend and we're pumped to do it this weekend and pumped that it is coming again this fall. So if you go to ramseysolutions.com events, we are so excited. Oh, it's November 6th through 8th. I was trying to find the, the dates. So November 6th through 8, 6 through 8th, it is here in Nashville. Early bird pricing is happening right now. Tickets start at $749. So get yours before prices go up because they will continue to go up. And we even have some limited VIP tickets with a meet and greets and some other fun stuff. So those are available as well.

[Unknown Speaker]

And by the way, we, we intentionally keep this at about half the price of what weekend retreats are. And we intentionally, like, we could shove another 1500 people in this auditorium. We intentionally undersell it. So we like as a, as a team make, we choose to make less money so we can get people in here that when they leave, it's not just three days of talking at somebody. It's three days of like, dude, you and I are both married. We're trying to figure this thing out too. It's everybody in A room. Figuring this thing out together. So it's. It's my favorite thing that I'm a part of. It's awesome.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, it's so, so fun. So, again, excited to announce some new dates. November 6th through the 8th of 2025.

[Unknown Speaker]

And they dropped us right smack in the middle of deer season for a.

[Rachel Cruze]

Whole weekend, which is super. Consult John's hunting schedule.

[Unknown Speaker]

How dedicated I am to this thing.

[Rachel Cruze]

Wow. What is. What a selfless servant you are.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, kind of like a.

[Rachel Cruze]

Like a public servant. Just being here with all of us in November. Thank you, John.

[Unknown Speaker]

Listen, my family will start.

[Rachel Cruze]

Thank you.

[Unknown Speaker]

But marriages will be saved. That's right.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's all we want. That's all we want. Oh, man. So, so fun. All right, let's go to Elizabeth in Philadelphia. Hi, Elizabeth. Welcome to the show.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hi. How are you both?

[Rachel Cruze]

We are doing great. How can we help?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, thank you for taking my call, so I'll cut the chase. I'm a licensed realtor. I'm working towards my broker's license while I'm in class now. But I have chosen this past year to stay at home with our son. And I'm feeling some regret about staying home, and I'm struggling with how to be content in that decision. You know, how can I make peace with this choice and still pursue my career goals without feeling like I'm not contributing enough financially?

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so that's what I was going to ask. What's the discontentment over? Is it that you're bored at home? Is it that you miss your career? That you feel guilt that you're not bringing in money? Where is this coming from?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think it's a mix I've always had. So I've been in the mental health field since I've graduated college and always had that job director role and had a consistent paycheck. Real estate came into my life about nine years ago, and that was always bonus. That was always on the side. And when I eventually have a family, I can focus on that. Always have as a side hustle. My husband's in mortgages. It's been a roller coaster the last couple years, but with the hustle, side hustles and so forth, we saved some money, and my son's only two. We both agreed I can continue to focus on real estate and stay at home. So I guess that's been a challenge for me. I'm always on the go, going to work, and so I just. I'm having a hard time with that. Although it's a wonderful thing. I'm still technically working, but I guess that's just not clicking, you know, for me, if that makes sense.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, absolutely. You know, I think it's. I think it's hard when you go from one speed to the other. It does feel like whiplash. And this need to feel like what felt normal is no longer normal, and it's not comfortable because of that. And so I do wonder, Elizabeth, because you're a high producer, you know, I can hear it in your personality. You like productivity, you like to do things. And so I'm wondering for you, number one, is, is there. Is there a level of a hybrid? You know, I mean, I think it's okay to always decide, okay, this isn't what I was thinking it was going to be, and make a different decision. Right. No one's, no one's holding you captive to stay home full time unless you and your husband agree, like, that's a value of ours and you want to keep that value longer. But I'm like, in my head, you can always. You can always kind of shuffle around and say, okay, I've been trying this. It's not working. Maybe I go part time. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing. Stay home completely or work, you know, 80 hours a week or something. That hybrid, or even the routine around the home, how can you make it mirror your productivity so you at least feel like, yeah, I'm still staying at home. That's what I wanted to do. But it's still matching your personality. Does that make sense?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It makes. It makes total sense. And believe me, I'll. I'll make. There's never a moment where I'm. I'm sitting and I wonder if that's an issue.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is that an issue, though?

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, my friend.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's where John will come.

[Unknown Speaker]

My friend Ian Simpkins said says, if busyness is your drug, rest will feel like stress. And I'm talking to two moms, so I. I cannot stand when dudes are like, all right, here's ladies, here's what you're feeling. I'm not doing that at all. But I want to pose these questions. You have entered into what I think from the outside looks like the great guilt factory that is modern motherhood. And there was a whole bunch of people that told you, if you drink like a man, earn like a man. Like, if you buy into that nonsense, by the way, men kill themselves more. They die younger. Like, if you buy into that track, that you'll quote, unquote, feel a certain way. And then there's this Other side of it, that is. How dare you do that. You've got this kid at home, moms who outsource child care or some sort of like lizard person. They're less than. And you thought, okay, I'm gonna quit all this and it's gonna quote, unquote, feel a. And in both situations, you went with you. And so if you've been running for something for a long time or you run and move as a way to try to outrun ghosts that have been hounding you since you're a little kid, if you're constantly on the move. Yeah. Sitting at home and facing the fact. Can we just all say this, parents. Parenting can be super boring. It can be like catastrophically boring. There's only so much cha cha in getting thrown up on and washing bot. I mean, it's, it's.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's mundane. Yeah. It's just over. It's a complete selflessness versus coming to work and interacting with other adults. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, it is a complete giving of yourself.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yes. So I think. Yeah. What Rachel said, I think is so important is none of these decisions are forever. And if you and your husband hold them lightly and say, okay, we're going to try this for six months and then you be honest about. I'm kind of going bananas. I need to go talk to a therapist. I need a group of friends. By the way, I think every stay at home mom needs to have a gang. This idea that women go home and you're stuck in a house with a crying baby, it's never happened in human history. And we call, right. We tell moms, y'all are the problem. That's insane. Right?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

So you got to get a gang. All that stuff.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

Is any of this ring True?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, 100%. You know, and I think. I think you know what has recently stopped. And this is Tommy, if you need me to stop. But you know, I was. Was contributing to my 401k. Now it's like, well, I can only do that. That's on my husband does it. He has his 401k. Like certain things have stopped. Right. But we have financially, like put that security and so, you know, we can hold off on that for a little. Contribute.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

Contributing to a human being is infinitely more valuable than a 401k.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're okay. You're okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[Unknown Speaker]

And that doesn't mean getting barfed on isn't any less fun.

[Rachel Cruze]

So much of our worth is financial to number. It is.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It is.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is poured into that. And it is this value system, this value of here's what I bring in from a dollars and cents perspective. And even that, even you mentioning the 401k, Elizabeth, like that is, that is ingrained in you.

[Unknown Speaker]

What are you worth? And we answer that with a number.

[Rachel Cruze]

That'S insane and unwinding. That I think is going to be a really important part of this journey for you because for so often again I'm going to say women because I'll speak for myself, that are proactive, you're productive, you do things. There is a value that's it can be like a drug. You get something out of it. There's a cause and effect. And I get, I've got to prove.

[Unknown Speaker]

That I have words.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And it and it, and it feels good. And then when all that stops and there's silence there, that's the monster you have.

[Unknown Speaker]

There's no silence. There's just. Can I have a snack? Can I have a snack? Can I have a snack?

[Rachel Cruze]

I know. So yeah. So give, give yourself some grace, Elizabeth. For sure. But yeah, that it is, it's one of the hardest limbos for a mom. And I feel that every day between the kids and the job, I get it. You know, one of the first things.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all.

[Rachel Cruze]

Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

To pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a.

[Rachel Cruze]

Lot of rip offs in the life.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Insurance world like that whole life crap.

[Rachel Cruze]

Posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Income, which is the smartest, most affordable.

[Rachel Cruze]

Way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is exactly what my friend Jeff.

[Rachel Cruze]

Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Find you the best options.

[Rachel Cruze]

And they've been around for over 95 years, so you know they'll be there when you need them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Zander is the real deal and that's.

[Rachel Cruze]

Why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I trust them and you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or.

[Rachel Cruze]

For a more personal touch.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Give them a call at 800-356-4282.

[Rachel Cruze]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show and as we've mentioned, every segment where we're going to because they're fantastic. We have an incredible crowd here today at Ramsey Solutions. And as you can watch the show live from the lobby, on the glass right next to the lobby, right in front of us as well is the debt free stage. And people that stand on the stage do a debt free scream. And today we have Tommy and Rebecca on the stage. Welcome, you guys. Hey, how you doing? Doing great. So glad that you're here.

[Unknown Speaker]

All right, where are y'all in from?

[Rachel Cruze]

California. Corona, California.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, you can't get out of debt if you're from California. That's true.

[Rachel Cruze]

In Corona, California. That's pretty fun. Okay, you guys. So you're from California. Came in. Are you guys here for the weekend?

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, we're doing the money and marriage event.

[Rachel Cruze]

Amazing. So great. Okay, so how much debt did you guys pay off?

[Unknown Speaker]

We paid off 644,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, my gosh. Okay, so what does that include?

[Unknown Speaker]

Dang, Gina, we're weird people.

[Rachel Cruze]

You paid off the house? Yes. You did. Okay, how much of the 640 was the house or was that it?

[Unknown Speaker]

It was the whole mortgage.

[Rachel Cruze]

It paid off the house completely. Oh, my gosh. Okay. How long did that take?

[Unknown Speaker]

Three years.

[Rachel Cruze]

Three years. And what kind of money were you making during that time? Joint. 350,000. Okay. Oh, my gosh. You guys.

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay. But that still doesn't cover. That means y'all.

[Rachel Cruze]

We had savings.

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Part of the process was letting go of the savings. I was more of the hoarder because I came from really humble beginnings. And so I felt like having a large safety net made me feel warm and fuzzy in that security blanket. So when Tommy got me into the Financial Peace University, it was kind of like he had to explain, babe, this is crazy. What? We're paying in interest on the mortgage. Yeah, for sure. So you were the. You were the math nerd? Yeah, running all the numbers.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, I was big into Ramsey watching it all the time. But we purchased the house right as we got married three years ago. We were blended family. We have three daughters between us. And I was looking at the amortization schedule, and I just couldn't believe the amount of money that we were going.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

To end up paying. We didn't.

[Rachel Cruze]

We bought it on a 30 year.

[Unknown Speaker]

So we were not really on the plan. And once I was realizing that, I started kind of talking to her more and more about it. We need to pay it off. And at first, I probably turned Dave's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Name into a cuss word in the household.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so how long have you guys been married?

[Unknown Speaker]

Three years.

[Rachel Cruze]

Three Years. Okay. When did all this conversation about selling the house start? Right before marriage.

[Unknown Speaker]

I'm sorry.

[Rachel Cruze]

Thank you. Pain off.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think shortly after we bought the house.

[Unknown Speaker]

I was looking and I started getting anxiety and stressed out about how much money we were going to spend. So I started kind of trying to.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Work my way into it and talking.

[Unknown Speaker]

To her about it.

[Rachel Cruze]

He came in hot, and I was like, what? I was like, you are crazy. What are you talking about? Like, everyone has a mortgage. Like, this is no big deal. But as we went through Financial Peace University, I was like, oh, this. This kind of makes sense. Like, okay, all right. I think we could do this. But it was kind of more of getting me on board because it was. It was. It was crazy. I haven't known anyone to pay off their house, so to me, it was crazy.

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay, I want to. I want to hear from you. I want to hear about your. You have a tension that I think so many Americans have that we don't talk about it. This both survivalist. Like, you grew up without a whole lot. Me too. Like, and so you kind of know this can all go away. And at the same time, you get that job and you're kind of successful and you get to have all the stuff that nobody ever. You were never able to have. And so you live in this constant tension of it's all going to go away. And so maybe you have a deep freezer full of, I don't know, hot dogs or whatever, but then also you're just buying stuff all the time. Tell me about that tension that you lived with.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, for me, it's, you know, it's a different lifestyle. We just. We do really well and we're very blessed, but at the same time, we still have those same traditional feelings. Like, we both wear socks with holes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

In them, you know, like.

[Rachel Cruze]

Like, because we don't. We're both the savers. And so it's crazy to have so much money and income and be able to pay off the house when we're still like, you know, the saver type. And it's almost like your emotions haven't caught up to the math.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No.

[Rachel Cruze]

And like, we just sit in the reality of what it's really reality. We just paid off the house last month because we knew he booked this money in marriage. And we were like, we gotta pay it off and do this debt free scream. And so it hasn't even sunk in yet. Like, this is still so fresh for us that it's like, this is crazy.

[Unknown Speaker]

Have you had. Have you had the checks Deposit. And you don't have a mortgage to send them to yet.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, no, we had one.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, we had.

[Rachel Cruze]

We got to skip one house payment by the time of coming here. So it was like, it's the next.

[Unknown Speaker]

One that y'all will be weird. And then next month, you'll look at each other and be like, I think we're rich. So crazy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so tell me what. Because I love that it's been three years. This has been, like, a short journey for you guys. I mean, for the most part. And so when you went from. Okay, is this a good idea? I don't know. It's not that big of a deal if no one pays off their house. Kind of that normal mindset. Right? Which is very normal. Tell me about, like, the emotions between just that, like, okay, I don't know. To actually having it paid off. Yeah. I think for me, I was always like, oh, no, we need the mortgage to have the tax write off.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Rachel Cruze]

And he's like, what are you talking about? And then to get to this side, it's like, oh, we don't have the mortgage anymore. This is. I mean, the way I would describe it is just mind blown. And especially because I don't know anyone else who's paid off the house. And so for us, it's totally. We're the weirdos. Like he said.

[Unknown Speaker]

I found out there's a whole bunch of people who've paid their house off. And it's kind of like the guy at the bar who just says, excuse me, because he knows he can beat up everybody. He didn't have to, like, bark and prove it.

[Rachel Cruze]

He.

[Unknown Speaker]

You'll find out there's a whole bunch of people who've paid it off. They just don't feel like they have to talk about it because they have peace in their life. They have nothing approved anybody anymore. Right. And then they can go buy socks. They don't have holes in them, too. It's fantastic. So what's the thing y'all are going to work towards to buy now?

[Rachel Cruze]

No big purchases. We want to retire early, so we keep. We're just both savers. So, like, why not fuel off of that and build towards early retirement?

[Unknown Speaker]

Will you make a commitment to me and Rachel?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[Unknown Speaker]

Before you leave Nashville?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[Unknown Speaker]

Y'all here for the money Marriage weekend before you leave? I like to think of Nashville as the sock and underwear capital of America. We all go get some socks.

[Rachel Cruze]

We'll buy socks.

[Unknown Speaker]

I do want to get some cowboy boots, actually.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. Go get a nice pair of boots. That's what you guys need.

[Unknown Speaker]

Saturday evening after the event, y'all go downtown. You can get 19 pair of boots for like four bucks or whatever, get some hats and be fantastic.

[Rachel Cruze]

Were the girls, Were they part of this? How much did you involve the kids? So they were involved in the sense of, like, saving. Like, hey, we need to cut back on eating out this. You know, that really builds up over time. And they're like, but why? And. But we did keep this kind of private for ourselves. Yeah. We wanted to do the journey, and when they're old enough, we'll explain it to them and the importance of it. But we didn't really get them too deep involved on it. Yes. No, that's great. That's great. I know. It's so interesting, each family, because then those girls, as they grow up, their normal baseline is like, oh, yeah, it's peace. Yeah, you just have a. You just have a paid for house. That's what you do. You know, like, with a normal. You're setting is part of changing that family tree. It's not just the financial legacy, but it's this mindset of how you view and see money.

[Unknown Speaker]

So let me make one more quick observation, both of y'all. This is marriage number two.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yep.

[Unknown Speaker]

The fact that you guys came together and did not just throw your feet up on the couch and say, we're just going to give us another whirlwind. But whatever happened in your past, y'all entered into this new marriage, blending a family, which is hard. You're a picture of your girls. Came up, just stunning young girl. I mean, brother, you're in for a mess, my man. Yeah, but, like, here's the deal. Y'all put some hurdles in your way immediately, and y'all overcame them. And so I want y'all to remember back to this point when y'all get sideways with. With each other, which you will, every marriage does. Y'all can do anything right. Y'all did it right out of the gate. It's amazing.

[Rachel Cruze]

So, so great. All right, you guys, we got Tommy and Rebecca from Southern California. They paid off $640,000, which is their house, in three years, making $350,000. All right, you guys, let's hear a debt free scream. Count it down.

[Unknown Speaker]

Three, two, one.

[Rachel Cruze]

We're debt free.

[Unknown Speaker]

Time to go sock shopping, America.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's how it's done. God, we don't get a lot of houses. We get. We've gotten some recently.

[Unknown Speaker]

We get some.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, but that's the. That's the pinnacle but it's.

[Unknown Speaker]

They're bucking every trend. California can't pay it off. It's impossible. It's this. It's. It takes two people saying, let's just go get this thing done. It's awesome.

[Rachel Cruze]

Three years.

[Unknown Speaker]

Three years.

[Rachel Cruze]

Incredible. Incredible. Tommy and Rebecca, you guys are amazing. Absolutely amazing. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Unknown Speaker]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. You've probably heard people talk about different kinds of flags and friendships and romantic relationships. Red flags, green flags, beige flags. Listen, it can be helpful to look for patterns or unsafe behaviors in potential relationships. But all those labels can distract from what's really important. Your values and whether you and your potential partner are willing to wake up every day and choose to honor each other's values. And look, I know it can be tough sometimes to even know what's important to you in a relationship. Therapy can help you figure out what your values actually are and decide your boundaries and your non negotiables. And if you're thinking about starting therapy, try BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy that works with your schedule. To get started, just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. If it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. So whether you're dating, married, building a friendship, or working on yourself, do it with help from Better Help. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com DeLoney.

[Rachel Cruze]

Up next, we have Emily from Minneapolis on the show. Hey, Emily. Welcome.

[Unknown Speaker]

Hi.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Thank you for having me.

[Rachel Cruze]

Absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I am just looking for advice. I'm in a funny situation. Me and my dad were living with my grandmother and she recently passed away. I'm sorry and thank you. The situation, I guess that we were looking to buy the house and I didn't really want to buy it unless it was given to me. And that was in conversation, but we didn't quite get to it. And my dad has always been supported by her and he, since she's passed, is still not really going to work. The reasons why he never really went is because he's an alcoholic. My boyfriend, he wanted to buy the house and I'm a big fan. I know you're not supposed to do that. So we did start the process of the mortgage lending and now my boyfriend doesn't make enough and then my dad's credit is too bad. So it really would only work if all three of us were in on it. But now that my dad still isn't proving to me that he can go to work, I guess I'm just looking for financial advice. What to do here.

[Unknown Speaker]

Please, please, please, please don't do what you're about to do. Yeah, please don't do that. You know in your guts that this is not a good idea. Please don't. And I know it will be hard, it'll be uncomfortable and your dad will get mad and you're going to feel guilty. All those things. Please don't do this.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yep. Because I'm still in debt. My boyfriend is still in debt.

[Unknown Speaker]

Do we just buy. Think of it this way. The bank's job is to lend money. And they looked at your boyfriend and looked at your dad and they said, y'all situation is so uncertain and unsafe that we can't. We will not do business with you. Please don't like, not to mention like you get the, you know, the mess and the legal mess of buying a house with a boyfriend and how to untangle all that mess. And I know you're going to be for. Together forever because we're in love. I know, but we wouldn't have a show if that didn't work out all the time. And then you throw a dad with some significant challenges, man, it is just a recipe for you being just destroyed financially. Your romantic relationship ending up in ash. And then you and your father having. No, I mean you, you. You've tangled business with substance abuse with lifetime of y'all. You two having challenges with grief. I mean, it's just such a wreck. Walk away. Go get an apartment. Please. Please.

[Rachel Cruze]

How old are you, Emily?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I am 24.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

No, please don't.

[Rachel Cruze]

Please don't. Yeah. There. There are so many, so many things in this. And in a weird way too, Emily, I feel like sometimes you can call it God, you can call it life, whatever you want. There's just closed doors that happen. And it's like they're keep. There's closed doors continuing to happen. You didn't have the conversation with your grandma. The bank isn't allowing, you know, your dad to fully have it. And then also then the boyfriend. And then you're gonna have to come into play. I mean, like, do you do. Like there. There are all of these things that are stopping you and, And I think, is it. Is it your sentimental, you know, the sentimental idea of owning this house from your grandmother or is it just I want to own a house? Like what? Give me some of the thought behind it for you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right? So this year was we just got on the. You know, my boyfriend and I were like, hey, we're gonna pay off our debt. We were go, you know, get engaged and buy a house this year. But then when this happened, I guess now it just kind of feels like, you know, I know my dad has bad credit, and when he gets this money from. Once the house is sold, there's three other brothers, so he'll probably get like $50,000. I know if he gets that, he's just going to drain it. He can't go buy a house. So I guess part of it kind of felt like an obligation to. What's going to happen to him. I know that's not my responsibility. And I thought it would be easier to move on until it really came. Like, I don't know what he is gonna do, you know, this is a.

[Unknown Speaker]

Really, really hard thing for me to say. Yeah, but you can't save your dad in the situation.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yep. It's not my responsibility. I understand.

[Unknown Speaker]

And I'm glad that. I mean, I know the cool thing these days is just to write off your parents. I. I don't believe in that. And I believe hanging in there as long as you can outside of, like, really abusive situations and the thought of taking care of my parents like that, that consumes a lot of my thinking. So that's not a bad thing. This isn't you helping him with bad financial decisions, and this isn't you helping an elderly parent. This is you thinking that maybe now he's going to look at you and say, I'm proud of you. He's not going to.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, no, you're right.

[Unknown Speaker]

And you've been looking for that since you were a little bitty girl wondering, why is he picking the bottle over me? And has nothing to do with you. It has to do with the fact that he's got demons, man. And alcohol for him. Works right now. Now. And he's gonna have to walk through that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I understand.

[Unknown Speaker]

And I hate that for you. I hate it for you. I do. I really do, man.

[Rachel Cruze]

And Emily, too. I would give you a little bit of word of caution with your boyfriend and even just the mixes of finances, because as you were saying, we were trying to pay off our debt and all this, keep everything separate. And if you're working to pay off debt, that's incredible. But be paying off your debts. How much debt do you have?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Me doing mine, him doing.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, good, good, good. Yeah. Yes.

[Unknown Speaker]

The number of people who call the show, and one she's paid off all his debt and then he finds some new hot young thing at the water park or whatever. Weird. Like, like, you know what I mean? So, yeah, you pay off yours. Y'all can be each other's cheerleaders, y'all can high five each other. But yeah, I don't pay off his debt yet.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. And so you guys recommend apartment, save to buy the house, then get engaged.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, no, get engaged whenever.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

Get engaged today.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. I mean, if you guys are doing it, just do it now. Get engaged, get married. Yeah. I would be completely debt free and have a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months of expenses and then save at least a 5% for a down payment.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, 5% for a down payment. Okay.

[Unknown Speaker]

And so that's probably going to be. What do you make?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What was that?

[Unknown Speaker]

How much money do you make?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I make, I think it's like 35 after taxes.

[Unknown Speaker]

How much do you owe in debt?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I have one auto loan and it was for my grandma actually to get her boat around. She bought a boat for last summer because she said life is too short and she spent her funeral money.

[Rachel Cruze]

So.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's a truck. It's a fourteen thousand dollar truck.

[Unknown Speaker]

Can you sell it?

[Rachel Cruze]

It?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm thinking about it. Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

I would sell it this weekend.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Have you looked into if you, if you sold a private seller, what, what, what it would come to?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I haven't yet. I think this all kind of just hit me today of like, okay, well, I'm not going to be able to do this.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, for sure. Emily. No, and I'm so glad you called. So I would just go on Kelly Blue book, type in the information, you know, it'll ask you some questions and just get, don't do, don't do a, a dealer, you know, do a private sale. You'll get more that way and. Yeah, and that, and that would be huge.

[Unknown Speaker]

You're free. Then go buy a $5,000 Camry that will run forever.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[Unknown Speaker]

And then you're, you're off to the races and. Can we? Okay, can we. I want you to see this. You have a real life picture. Most don't have this. You have a real life picture of what it looks like to not take care of your finances, to burn yourself to the ground trying to prop somebody else up who's not interested in your health. And then asking your granddaughter to buy a car so that you in your last few months and years can yolo. You have a picture of that. I want you to try to consider what it would feel like to not owe anybody any money. To have your own house. To have a job where you're making more than 35, 000 bucks.

[Rachel Cruze]

Savings in the bank.

[Unknown Speaker]

You got savings in the bank. You get what I'm saying? Peace. Peace. Peace.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Peace.

[Unknown Speaker]

Peace. The sulfur. Peace.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Emily, stay on the line. Christian's gonna pick up and we're gonna give you financial Peace University. This is our nine lesson course. And you can just binge those videos just to kind of get.

[Unknown Speaker]

Make boyfriend. Watch it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Yeah. You guys sit down together and watch it. Seriously.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This way, I feel like.

[Rachel Cruze]

And we'll give you every dollar premium so that you can start really working this feeling of what John's saying, kind of painting this picture of. Yeah. What does this look like? To actually have a plan for my money, not only month to month, but in the next, next three, four, five, six years. And it's an amazing thing. I mean, it is so possible. And you're 24 years old and you are going to be able to make so many changes. So many changes in this. But there's some. But there's some.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm a huge fan.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. No, we're so excited for you. And there's some relational hurdles there, too, in your life.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

Hey, can we make no mistake? It's gonna. This is gonna be awful. Yeah. Your dad is gonna make you feel so guilty and he's gonna blame you, and you can block him and you cannot respond, but this can be hard. But just because it's hard doesn't mean it's not the next right thing.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Emily, thanks for the call. Stay away from water parks. Right?

[Unknown Speaker]

I'm telling you, those boys go to water parks and they find new. They find new.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, my gosh. All right, thanks to all the guys in the booth. Thanks, John, for a great hour. And thank you, America. We'll be back. Hey, what's up, guys? It's Jade Warshaw. And look, if there's anybody who knows student loan debt is a problem, it's me. My husband and I had $280,000 of it, but we were able to dig ourselves out. And you can, too. If your student loan payment and interest rate are burying you, refinancing could be the solution. Now, I recommend contacting my friends at Laurel Road today through their online application. You can get an initial rate quote in less than five minutes. If you have a more complex situation.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You can schedule 30 minutes to talk.

[Rachel Cruze]

To an actual human being. Thank goodness Laurel Road makes it simple. There are no fees involved and you could save thousands over the life of your loan. Remember, you should only refinance if it makes sense in your situation.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So if you're looking for a low.

[Rachel Cruze]

Rate or a shorter term so that you can pay off these student loans fast, talk to my friends at Laurel Road about their competitive interest rates and.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How you could actually get a lower.

[Rachel Cruze]

Rate by signing up for autopay. Listen, nobody's coming to save you from student loan debt. If you want them gone, you can't mess around. Go to LaurelRoad.com Ramsey to find out more about student loan refinancing. Again, that's LaurelRoad.com Ramsey. Laurel Road is a brand of Key Bank National Association. All credit products are subject to credit approval. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and bestselling author Dr. John DeLoney. And we are taking your calls at 8888255 225. So give us a call talking about your life, your money, anything and everything. Next up.

[Unknown Speaker]

Dude, I'm so happy right now. This is my favorite weekend of the year. I love it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Favorite weekend.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's a money marriage weekend. And. And people come from all over planet earth to hang out with us in Nashville, Tennessee. And if you think we get wheels off like on our individual shows, this particular event is so unhinged. It's the best. It's the best of the best.

[Rachel Cruze]

A lot of Rachel just shaking her head on stage with John. Just.

[Unknown Speaker]

You are the queen of accidental double entendres.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's like you're. It's like your superpower.

[Rachel Cruze]

It happens sometimes. All right, let's start us off this hour.

[Unknown Speaker]

Ken Coleman is the king.

[Rachel Cruze]

Always the king. Number one.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Number one in the book for sure. All right, let's go to Courtney in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, Courtney. Welcome to the show.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hi. How's it going? I hope you guys are doing good. I just have a question about debt consolidation. So I have a vehicle loan that's like over 23,000, and I'm wanting to sell it to an auto dealership, but the options are either lease or. Or get a rebate and lease a car, which I don't want to do, or pay the part where I'm underwater. And so I was thinking if I go ahead, sell it and get a loan out for maybe 9,000, I can pay off my credit card and have my car also paid off and have that debt gone. Because my ultimate goal is to be able to get a house and just get rid of some of that debt.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so the car, you. You owe 23 on it. And have you looked at other options like private sale and what you could get? Because usually you can't get as great of a deal with. Through a dealership.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I haven't looked at private sale. I mean, there's a dealership right now, like my car. They're offering like around 20,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's pretty good. I just, I'm concerned about how long it'll take to do a private sale.

[Rachel Cruze]

Sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

While I'm putting more mileage on the car.

[Rachel Cruze]

Sure.

[Unknown Speaker]

If they're offering you 2020, then I bet you can get 275 for it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

27 5.

[Unknown Speaker]

I just made that number up. But I guarantee you they are lowballing you like Swing low, Sweet chariots. They are. So they are. They. They send these emails out that they have with their, with the. And. And they're fishing for desperate people.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

If you wait two weeks, you get this thing sold. Private sale.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Okay. What. Which. So should I just stay away from the debt consolidation or.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, I would. Because it's not going to really fix your problem because how much do you have in credit card debt that you're wanting to. You're wanting to use some of this other loan that you're going to take out. Right. To pay off the credit card debt. And how much is that? How much is the credit card debt?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So the credit card is about 4,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

4,000. Okay. And how much do you make a year?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Around 70,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Around 70. Okay, great. Okay. Honestly, Courtney, if I were you, I. I mean, I think John's right. I think you could probably break even on this car. If not, maybe make a thousand or so. So I would re. I would Kelly Blue book it and really look into private sales just to set to sell to an individual. And I think you're going to get more doing that Again, the dealerships always lowball you because they have to turn around and resell it. And so they have to make their margin on it. And so instead of all of that, you get the profit instead of them.

[Unknown Speaker]

But they're also going to turn around and resell it. But you. You kind of unveiled their plan. They're going to make a little bit of money on that resale. Where they're going to make most of their money is taking somebody who bought a car and trying to trade them into a lease.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, that's it too, Courtney. They're trying to make a lot.

[Unknown Speaker]

And you've heard that when you drive a new car off the lot, it instantly loses money. You know that one, right? Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, it definitely did. It went down like 10.

[Unknown Speaker]

That's right. All Elise is, is a. It's a awesome scam that car companies came up with to get regular consumers just to pay for that depreciation. So they get their car back in two years, somebody has paid the depreciation, and now they can turn on and sell it for what it's worth, and they win. Don't play that game.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's just. They are looking for desperate people.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Courtney, do you have any money saved at all?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't, like, I just made a big move, honestly, and I. I had, like, life happen, and then that's. That's kind of what happened.

[Rachel Cruze]

Sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Had to buy a new car.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Because. Yeah. And, you know, and I don't think you're in, like a. You're not in. In a desperate situation. So if I were you, Courtney, I would. I would make it a goal, get an extra job, get a side hustle, and I would make it a goal to save five to $6,000. I mean, in the next, like, four months. Months, like, make a big goal, try to make a thousand fifteen, two thousand a month extra. And when you do that, you'll have. You'll have that margin. Go and buy a $5,000 Honda Civic, sell this car for, and maybe you'll break even on it. Right. I mean, the worst, it's going to be 23. If they're offering you 20, 23, maybe you'll get another extra thousand dollars or two.

[Unknown Speaker]

And I don't even mind if you have to go to a local credit union and take out a loan for 2,500 bucks to get out of. Of it, because then you only owe 2500 versus 2000. Is your credit pretty shot?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, well, no, my credit, I just. I think the car is so new on my. I've only had it for a couple of months, but.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, you're not underwater on it. So breaking even, you know, I mean, there's a win. Yeah, for sure. For sure. And then. Yeah. And then, Courtney, you'll be able to work and pay off this. Pay off the credit card, the 4,000 in three or four months. I mean, your whole life could look different, honestly, in the next eight to nine months. And I don't think. Yeah, the debt consolidation loan, I mean, that's just moving around, you know, the interest and you're you're not going to be in this long anyways. So for the long game, from the math perspective, it's not going to make that much of a difference. And majority of the time with debt consolidation, not as much in this example, but for a lot of people, they try to shuffle around their debt to fix a math problem. We're realizing that so much of this is a behavior problem, not a math problem. So you, Courtney, going and doing it and, you know, understanding like, oh, yeah, I can totally pay this off. I think you'll do it faster in that way than trying to kind of shuffle the debt around.

[Unknown Speaker]

Can I ask you a personal question, just between me and you and a couple of million people listening?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure. Why did you move for a job? I got an actual, like almost a $16,000 increase. And I just. Everything was great. I had my money saved for my house. Everything was going. And then something popped up on my credit that I didn't know about getting apartment. And then I, you know, I just couldn't get the house at that time as well, so started shoving out money left and right next to me. I know my savings was drained.

[Unknown Speaker]

There you go. So sometimes, like when you have a big transition or two or three, or you mentioned, it's just things got chaotic real fast. All of a sudden you look up and the smoke clears. You're like, what happened? Right, Right. I'm all super stable. And then this thing happens. The temptation is, I want to fix it all right this second. It's like somebody who has like a really just bad. Gets off the rails with their diet on a weekend, and they think they're going to solve it by just starving themselves Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. And what they end up doing is creating such a, like a, Like a teeter totter inside their. Inside their body that they end up overeating Thursday and Friday. Right. So the hardest thing for you is just like, you make great money. You're clearly awesome at what you do, and you've had some. A little bit of chaos in your life. You've transitioned, you've moved all this stuff. Just do the next right move. Like get rid of the car. Don't get in bed with any. I said that kind of weird. Don't take any loans. Don't get in with. Don't get in with any consolidation. You'll pay this $4,000 off in no time. You'll have your savings back in no time, and then you'll be back on your feet. Like Rachel said, in nine months, this whole thing is behind you. So just do the next right move.

[Rachel Cruze]

Listen people, what you call organized chaos is still chaos. This year. Build some room in your budget to.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Get your life really organized.

[Rachel Cruze]

One tool that I recommend is a knockbox.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

As in next of kin.

[Rachel Cruze]

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[Dr. John DeLoney]

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[Rachel Cruze]

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[Dr. John DeLoney]

Start getting organized today and receive an exclusive [e-mail] that's n o k box.com.

[Unknown Speaker]

Ramsey I still remember 10 years ago, 23 years old. I was frustrated, anxious and flat broke.

[Rachel Cruze]

I had followed all the ways that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Toxic money culture had led me down.

[Unknown Speaker]

From well meaning parents and misguided guidance counselors.

[Rachel Cruze]

And it left me with a pile of debt.

[Unknown Speaker]

But I'm telling you, it doesn't have.

[Rachel Cruze]

To stay that way.

[Unknown Speaker]

Over a decade, I went from broken to millionaire. And I break it all down. In my new book, Breaking Free from Broke. I'm going to show you just how toxic this money system is and how you can break free from credit scores.

[Rachel Cruze]

And credit cards and student loans and auto loans and investing traps and finally, live a life that you're not exhausted by. A life with more margin, more options, and more peace. If you want to check out the.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Book, go to ramseysolutions.com store to get.

[Unknown Speaker]

Your copy of Breaking Free from broken.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's ramseysolutions.com store.

[Rachel Cruze]

Today's question of the day is brought to you by why Refi? Why refi refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. Now, you guys, private student loans are different than federal student loans like Sallie Mae. So to learn more about this custom refinancing option and a lump sum payoff option that you could qualify for for after 24 months. Months, go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f-y.com Ramsey may not be available in all states.

[Unknown Speaker]

All right, before I read today's question out loud, I need everybody to relax. James, this may be the end of the show because I this is a you're gonna get canceled question because I have strong opinions on this. Today's question comes from Renee in Iowa. Oh geez, here we go. My husband and I are on baby step two. With about $50,000 left to pay off. We earn around 250,000 bucks a year. Our question is regarding how much we spend for our 13 year old daughter's travel softball team. Between club dues, private lessons, weekend travel, food, hotels, and I could go on and on. It's about a thousand dollars a month, Rachel. A thousand. We're doing well, paying off our debt and I don't want to squash her passion for sports. Then take her out of travel sports because she's one of the top players in the state. She still will be. She's a hard working kid and doesn't take our support for granted. But I feel like I'm breaking the rules for paying off debt in baby step two. What are your thoughts on this? Oh, this is a. This is, this is the killer question. The knife in the heart question. Our debt is not her fault. So I feel like it's unfair to take this from her. Just to save some money.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm gonna have probably a less harsher take than you will.

[Unknown Speaker]

Go for it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. You make $250,000 a year. You have $50,000 in debt. So, you know, cut, cut everything for six months and pay off the debt, like in my head. And then. And you're fine. And then you pay the softball stuff and you're fine. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's not like.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, my problem with this has nothing with math.

[Rachel Cruze]

I know, I know, but it's the. Yes. Yes.

[Unknown Speaker]

Pay off your debts.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. That's so, like in my head, I'm like, the thousand dollar softball thing. Yes. Is it, is it slowing down your debt, Snowball? Sure. But I think there's way other problems out there for making $250,000 and not being able to pay off 50. Like in my head, I'm like, yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

You'Re taking home 18 to 20,000 bucks a month, making a quarter million dollars, and you take five or seven thousand of that a month, pay off 50 grand.

[Rachel Cruze]

Right, right. Yeah. Get an extra job or whatever. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, you. Yeah. To do it. So I, I don't, I don't like the. Oh my gosh, this is the thing. I'm like, I think there's other issues going on besides the, the softball thing.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yes. I would be, I would be shocked. And Renee, I can be wrong. I'd be shocked if there's not a whole bunch of other expenses that we, quote, unquote, have to do.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. It's that feeling.

[Unknown Speaker]

Or I'm gonna use her words. We're gonna squash our kids. Passionate. It's not her fault. So it's unfair. All this stuff. So here's what I, I, I spent my career, I was, I did, I did travel sports at the, in their first iteration, I was a college athlete for a couple years. Like I, I, I'm, my whole life has been around athletics and I love it. And I've got to sit. Some of my buddies are collegiate trainers. That's what they do for a living. I also work with some of the top physical fitness folks in the world. Like, so I, this is, I love this, I love sports, I love all of it. And we are destroying our kids at the altar of every weekend, private lessons, club dues, performance. And we say things like, she's one of the best players in the state. Great. That doesn't mean you spend a thousand bucks a month. If you go ask people who work with professional athletes and even the top collegiate athletes are going to tell you, you let your kids have time off, make them play other sports, go do other fun things, go camping, have weekends, have a childhood.

[Rachel Cruze]

A, a whole rounded childhood.

[Unknown Speaker]

That's right.

[Rachel Cruze]

And the problem with this is it's so segmented so early in life too.

[Unknown Speaker]

That's right. And, and I, I've got, I've got collegiate trainers and collegiate medical staff friends of mine that said, they see repetitive joint use injuries in 18 year olds that are, have always been reserved for geriatric patients. Patients, shoulders, knees. It's madness, right? In this intense specialization and the intense focus. And so I want every parent this, like you said, it's not about money. It's not about money if you make 75, 000 bucks. And let me put it this way, everything is on the table. When you're trying to get out of debt, it's an emergency for your family. And I do like kids having some skin in the game and moms and dads. You're not robbing from your children if you don't shell out a thousand dollars a month for, for soccer or for softball or for whatever the thing is, you're not robbing your childhood.

[Rachel Cruze]

And you know what I hear in this too, Renee, I mean this was what, five, six sentences all around this.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's guilt. It's guilt.

[Rachel Cruze]

And I'm like, there's a level of this like idolization in her. I'm like, renee, chill. Like, you don't mean. She's 13. If Renee was like, yeah, I mean it's fine, it's fine. But she's like, no, no, I have, it's this like, like pressurized momentum for the parents going on to the children yes.

[Unknown Speaker]

And here's what, here's the ultimate, the ultimate problem. Our kids are being made the center point of the family, of the house. Your 13 year old knows that her life dictates every weekend, every evening of the week, all of the driving, the money. They know that. And kids cannot hold, they're not strong enough to hold the, the entire weight of a family. That's the parents job. Teach your kids to be disappointed. Teach them, hey, me and your dad got into a whole bunch of debt and so all of us have to sacrifice.

[Rachel Cruze]

And they're gonna learn resilience for one.

[Unknown Speaker]

Year and frustration, right? And your 13 year olds will say things like, I hate you. They're 13, right? There's a reason we don't let 13 year olds buy guns or beer or vote. Cause they're 13, right? And so if you are playing this, it's unfair and I don't want to get mad and I don't want to take their passion. You won't do any of that stuff. You won't do any of that stuff. You will give your kid stable, as Dr. Becky Kennedy says, a sturdy presence to anchor into. And that's way more important than shelling out private lessons and travel and hotels and, and all this madness. It is stone madness. And if you talk to any professional coach, they'll tell you, geez Louise, man. Yeah, do something else. Go play soccer, go play basketball, go take a karate class, go play guitar. Do other things that make you a well rounded human being.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, well. And I even think, you know, the well roundedness. I was even hearing some dads talk and they were like, you know, their goal is to go do something outdoors once a month with the, with the kids, with the boys, right? Because they were like, if you look up, it's, it's a sport, sport, sport, sport, sport. And I don't know why, I don't know if it's like this area or if it's all of America it's turned.

[Unknown Speaker]

Into, but it is a of America. And here's the thing. I have have great sympathy for parents, Rachel, because they're told at 4, hey, your kid's pretty fast. You or how good does it feel when someone's like, hey, your kid made this team. And you're like, yeah, all right, it's gonna cost 900. And because I see something in your kid and if they get on this team, then next year they get on this team by fifth grade, then get on that team and then in eighth grade they can get on this and you Just got put into a rocket ship. That is so expensive.

[Rachel Cruze]

I was gonna say, and if we just. I would love to do like an investigative reporting on how much these leagues make.

[Unknown Speaker]

And the league owners, they.

[Rachel Cruze]

It is a money making machine.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's a printing.

[Rachel Cruze]

It is, it is. And every parent's like, take my money, take my money. I mean seriously, it is, it is wild.

[Unknown Speaker]

I would love to see a parent who is awesome, who would be willing to go back and say, okay, here's how much money we spent and I would love to just give it to you or George or Jade and have y'all run it through. If y'all invested this, just put it in a 529 or put it in a, in a Roth for your kid.

[Rachel Cruze]

So how much of all of this, from your perspective, how much of it is the is. Is the kid that's like, no, I want it, I want it, I want it. Versus the parents that's saying, do this, do this, do this.

[Unknown Speaker]

13 year olds, 9 year olds, 7 year olds, they're going to want Twinkies and Skittles and to stay up late and to play games and have other recognition from other adults. Kids are just kids. I heard somebody say recently that I just love. I don't want to hear another person say, quote unquote. The kids these days, they haven't changed. Kids are kids. They're always going to try to push the boundaries. They're always going to say, I want the next shiny thing. That's because they're kids. What's changed is adults who are worshiping their children's feelings and they don't have their own psychology. They were trying to relive their childhood. Everybody's Uncle Rico. I had just gotten my shot. But I think the bigger thing is the more honest take is parents are so worried about how their kids feel on a minute by minute basis that they end up with 19 year olds that can't pick up their arms and that have no resilience and no, no psychology for disappointment or frustration.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, and it's funny too. I'm like, as a parent with three little ones in this, I mean literally, they're like, oh, well, if they don't do this and they're not on travel by fourth or fifth grade, then they're not gonna make the middle school team, then they're not gonna make the high school team, then they're gonna do drugs and they're gonna die like that. That's like what it feels like happens. And you're like, oh my Gosh.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Rachel Cruze]

So yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

And it's categorically not true. Period.

[Rachel Cruze]

There's a time in your life and at the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner. You can rely on Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely. Churchill understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget. Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense. Now it's extra money in your pocket and an asset towards turning you into a baby steps millionaire. So get started on the American dream of home ownership [e-mail] that's churchillmortgage.com this.

[Unknown Speaker]

Is a paid advertisement in MLS ID 1591 in mlsconsumeraccess.org equal housing lender, 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100, Brentwood, Tennessee 37027.

[Rachel Cruze]

Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here. All right. I'm about to say what everyone already knows, but budgeting is a good thing to do now actually starting, well, that's where people freeze up. And you guys, it doesn't have to be that way. With the EveryDollar budgeting app, getting started is super easy and so is sticking to it. You can set up your first budget in less time than it takes to go through the Chick Fil. A drive thru. It's fast. And the best part, with unlimited budget categories, you can customize it to fit your life. Grocery runs, coffee runs, or planning your next family trip. Whatever you have going on, everydollar helps you see exactly what's happening with your money. You'll know what's coming in, what's going out, and what's left over for some fun. Because let's be real, you need some fun in your budget. Everydollar keeps budgeting simple and stress free, just the way you want it. So go download the app for free and get started today. Again, go download EveryDollar today. Welcome back. Again. We have a big weekend here for our money and marriage event. And tickets just came on sale for our November event. We just opened up these dates to the public. So November 6th through 8th, you can come out to Nashville with your spouse and come hang out with us.

[Unknown Speaker]

The greatest marriage retreat on earth. I'M a little bit biased, but I think it's the best one that's out there.

[Rachel Cruze]

We have so much fun this weekend, you guys, and it's, it's always great conversations, great hanging out time. We really pack in an incredible weekend. So you can get your tickets for the fall event November 6th through 8th at ramseysolutions.com events. Up next, we have Susie in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Susie. Welcome to the show.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hi.

[Rachel Cruze]

Hello. Hello. Yes. Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I want to know, how can I go on in the ways I can trust my husband after he had moved all our savings without telling me, I discovered it. And he keeps on making financial decisions without telling me or asking me.

[Unknown Speaker]

Where did he take your, where did he take your savings?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, he moved it to another account and that, well, part of it that has higher interest and some of it went into some investments, but, like, not a concern because we kind of talked about it. But it's just not the only. In the last two years, not the only time that he did things and I discovered it and.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, I guess there's two things here. One is you can't, like you're asking yourself to do something. Like you're asking yourself to find trust within yourself. And the person you're trying to trust continues to violate the trust. And so if you want to re establish trust, then you have to put down on, on the table, lay it out there. Here's what must be true for me to trust you again. And we're gonna have to, we're gonna have to practice and we're gonna have to go step by step to re establish trust. And then the other person has to participate.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So, like, relationally, I know what to ask of him. Like, I want, I know, like, first you do this, this and this, and then we can like work together and, you know, I'll.

[Unknown Speaker]

So what makes you, would it make you financially.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't know what to ask of him because I thought we had like a joint bank account and it turns out, like, probably I don't know what a joint bank account is and what, like what I ask of. What should I ask of him to be sure that, you know, money doesn't disappear like all of a sudden that I have some.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. I mean, you need to have a spreadsheet that has every account on it and what every password for every account is. And your. You should both be sitting down with an investment professional, smartvestor pro, as we call them here, and they're walking both of you through Your retirement accounts and how much money you have in those accounts. And you should know how much cash y'all have. I mean, all this stuff you should know.

[Rachel Cruze]

Susie, what does he say? His reasoning is for doing this without telling you? When you find out and you say, oh, my gosh, you moved the money, what does he say?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He. He. He couldn't explain it. Actually. He started saying, well, because you. Because you. And I'm like. I stopped. Stopped, like, my mind shut off. I stopped even listening because, like. What do you mean, because you. You did it. You didn't. Like, he's saying, well, he's trying to put the guilt on me somehow. Well, the worst thing is that for 15 years, like, money wasn't something that we ever had fights or about.

[Rachel Cruze]

Did you ever talk about it in those 15 years? And you saw everything, you had access to everything, and you knew where everything was for 15 years?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And there was no way, say, we would discuss it, or sometimes, like, he'll say, I want to do this, or I did this. And I'm like, okay. So he always said, what's going on? And then he just.

[Unknown Speaker]

Is he in trouble? Is he making. Is he making. Is he struggling with gambling or is he seeing somebody else? Like, where's this money going?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want to say that it's not going. I don't think he has problems with gambling, but. And he. I don't know actually what's going on, because this is like, the last two years, there's been a series of betrayals.

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay. So here's the thing. Here's what you need to do. Yeah, go ahead.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, so there's been other betrayals, Susie, in your marriage?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

On his. On his end or your end relationally?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What to ask. But then how did I make myself financially?

[Unknown Speaker]

Have you caught him having an affair?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He was in an emotional affair with somebody.

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay. My guess is if there's missing money or suddenly money's getting moved around all over the place, that if you went in and did a forensic. Deep dive into that and forensics just means you went line by line to see what is. Stuff's being spent. You're gonna find stuff spent on flowers and hotel rooms and things like that. It's just very rare for things to just be bebopping along for 15 years. Everybody's on the same page, and then suddenly all the money gets moved and you know where it is. Some of us getting spread out, all that kind of stuff. If I'm you or if you're my sister, you or my Mom, I would tell you, pull your credit report today to find out what loans have been taken out with your Social Security number. I would freeze my credit. And then I would tell my husband, I, I, we're going to have a meeting with every single account, every dollar amount. I want to know what is in our, all of our retirement accounts. I want to know what's in all of our savings account, what's in our checking account, and an accounting for where all the cash actually is.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

And it's just going to be a sheet. And by the way, it's not hard to do. I've got one, my wife has one. And Rachel. It's pretty common that somebody just instantly gets into a mess. And I see it more and more with online gambling over the last few years.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. Well, usually when there's, yes. When there's shuffling around like this and then suddenly there was transparency. Now there's not transparency. There's a red flag, something else that's.

[Unknown Speaker]

The biggest waving on top of a mountain. Red flag.

[Rachel Cruze]

There is. Yeah. Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

So sorry, Susie.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And I would say even from a relational standpoint, I, I don't feel like you guys have probably fully healed from that, obviously, because even the way he's speaking to you or what you told us, he's shifting the blame.

[Unknown Speaker]

The gas lights are burning brightly.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. I mean, seriously, like, it's, it is pretty wild. So. Yeah, I would be. Yeah. I mean, it is so difficult because if it's not under your name, he could have a secret account that you never know about either, so.

[Unknown Speaker]

That's Right.

[Rachel Cruze]

So there is a level of, of his transparency that he has to come forward as well. But you can pull things on in your name if you know, know the banks you guys are banking at together, whatever name account that or whatever account is in your name you will have access to, you will be able to see it. And then asking him to do the same, because I'll be curious as you do your digging on the side and he brings information. If his doesn't line up with what you even found right then, then there's another, you know, distrust there. But this is, Susie, usually with these types of situations, we always say around here, and it is true, it's at this point, it's not, it's not a, it's not a money thing. It's a marriage issue.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, big time.

[Rachel Cruze]

Because of the marriage issues. It's coming out as this money issue. And so, yeah, I mean, you, you guys have, you have a road of healing. I mean, you really Do. And if you guys want to.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, you got a road of fact finding for, for the term.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's fair. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

And you're not getting the full story.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And, and that's really, really difficult and always scary. I'm like, that's the, it is the betrayal that's always so difficult. So difficult. So, so, yeah. I'm sorry, Susie. Thanks for the call. I hope, I hope that helps and I hope it does give you some empowerment to go and to look. And I think for some, you know, I'll say women who do allow the husbands just to basically do majority of everything when it comes to the money. This is one of the issues that we find because you do feel overwhelmed of like, oh my gosh, I don't even know where to start. Like, I don't even know what to look for or what to ask. Because you were saying that, Susie, I don't even know what to ask from a financial situation. So again, just to repeat and, and, and help you in this, I mean, it is asking checking accounts, it's asking savings accounts, high yield accounts, money market accounts, investments, retirement accounts. I mean any outstanding debts, any debts that are there. Yes. And what John said to pulling your credit report and seeing if any debts have been taken out. But that's, that's kind of the, those are like kind of the cat categories to walk through to ask him. And then for you to go in this investigative mode.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. And let me flip it on its head as well. To the men out there, you are not helping your wife have any sort of peace in her life by saying, I've got it, I've got it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Right.

[Unknown Speaker]

At some regular interval, whether it's every month or every quarter, twice a year, once a year, sit down, down and say, and of course there's somebody who pushes the button and pays the bills or somebody who moves the money. I get that. Have some sort of, hey, just so we're on the same page, here's where everything is and here's where we are. That brings so much peace to your house and it keeps these, these nightmares from happening.

[Rachel Cruze]

I think we'd all agree that it's a lot harder to run a race if you don't know where the finish line is. But nearly half of all Americans have.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No idea how much money they'll need.

[Rachel Cruze]

To retire with dignity. If you're ready to stop hoping for.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The best and start planning for your.

[Rachel Cruze]

Future, then check out the SmartVestor program. A SmartVestor Pro can teach you everything you need to know. To get in the driver's seat of your own financial future. Connect with a [e-mail] Smartvestor Ramsey Solutions is a paid non client promoter of participating pros.

[Unknown Speaker]

Learn [e-mail] SmartVest Investor.

[Rachel Cruze]

One of the best things that you can do for your money is to get a great tax pro in your corner. Tax season is approaching and they're going to help advise you to make the best moves for your situation, especially if you've had a big life change or a complicated situation if you own a small business. So go to ramseysolutions.com taxpro to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by the Ramsey team. All right, up next we have Ashton in Madison, Wisconsin. Hi, Ashton. Welcome to the show.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hello. Thank you for taking my call.

[Rachel Cruze]

Absolutely. Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so basically I own a residential painting company here with my longtime childhood friend. We basically are splitting the profits right down the middle at around 50%, despite me running the business full time year round while he's in school. And he only works for about three and a half months out of the year.

[Unknown Speaker]

How'd you all come to that, that arrangement? Man, you're getting hosed on that deal?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, I dropped out of school to start the business. And so when we created the partnership, we just made it 50 50. And then we kind of assumed that it was going to be the same setup as when we worked at a different painting company together. But now, you know, now that we're into it, I'm booking all the work. I paint and run one of the crews year round. I'm expanding the network daily and I'm making most of the gradual improvements to the business.

[Rachel Cruze]

So what's he saying, Ashton? Have you brought this up to him feeling like it's unfair? How has he responded?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, yeah, we've had multiple conversations about it. And the main argument that he uses is that I currently make, or he and I, I guess both make over six figures. And so why do I need any more money? You know, that's kind of his argument and he just doesn't back down on it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Did you guys put in investment up front, equal investment and that's how you got to the 5050 partnership? Or did you guys, you guys were just two friends or like, yeah, we'll just open up this together and see what happens.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'd say it's closer to the latter. It really wasn't super expensive to get into the business and I know that I don't need the extra money to like stay alive, you know, I'll be.

[Rachel Cruze]

Fine, but my country a long time ago, so. It's not that. I mean.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, no, no. Hey, just. Bro, this guy's not your friend.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, he's my business partner.

[Unknown Speaker]

And he's a bad business partner. Like might be right. Yeah, you got to dissolve the same. Because, because any. I'm just thinking if one of my buddies came to me and I was in school with, had a. We had a business and suddenly he was running the whole thing, it wouldn't even occur to me just to respond the way he did. Yeah, yeah, dude.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so. So Ashton, what would it look like? Have you guys. I don't know how it's set up, how you guys formalize the business, but do you buy them out? Do you dissolve the business? Start your own thing? Like what, what are you thinking? Because he's obviously long, like long term. It's not going to work. It's not working.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

He's not who you want to be in business with long term.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. The assumption is that it's going to kind of work itself out because, you know, once he graduates he's. He's committed to, or verbally committed to coming and working full time for the business, you know, and making up for the fact that I kind of built it from the ground up single handedly. But I don't know if that's going to happen. And you know, I'm only 20. I turned 21 pretty soon. We're doing about half a million in revenue each year. So.

[Unknown Speaker]

So here's, here's the thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Just throw this away.

[Unknown Speaker]

Like as a 21 year old, you a. You're dealing with like. I wish I had another word for it because it's got romantic connotations and that's not what I mean. But you're dealing with a breakup, dude. You're dealing with a friend who's not treating you the way you treat him. And I wish this wasn't the case for the rest of your life, but people are going to hurt you for the rest of your life. It's just kind of part of it. And you'll find a group that will ride with you to the end no matter what. But just hear from me and Rachel. What's happening to you is categorically unfair. And he's revealing himself as a person who lacks integrity. Or maybe he's 20 and he's just incredibly immature. But I would not trust him as far as I can see him because he's Proven to you he's not a person of character and integrity. And he wants to take the money that you're the, the money that you're earning and take it and say, this is mine just because of some handshake we made and it's just not accurate. So I wouldn't throw the business away, but I would dissolve the partnership and I would say, I quit this. I'm going to go open my own business down the street and I would do exactly what you're doing and make all $300,000 or half a million dollars a year on your own. That's what you're doing anyway, right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Pretty much, yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

I think I guess I just gotta call this what it is. What are you worried about?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's not as much as of a worry. I kind of just have like this hope for the future based on our, our plans and what, what we've talked about, that we're going to be expanding into other industries and you know, we're, we're like, we're a really good team. You know, our skills and our attributes kind of compliment.

[Unknown Speaker]

You're breaking my heart, brother. You're not. This is like somebody talking to somebody who's like, I know she cheats on me, but like, we're really good together.

[Rachel Cruze]

So nice. She's so nice.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. And she's pretty. And like her, her dad takes me hunting. Like, I get that, but you're married. Like that relationship's over. Same here. Man, I hate this for you.

[Rachel Cruze]

I mean, because just think about Ashton. As the business continues to grow, the problems you're having are going to magnify. So if, if you are having issues now with you carrying the weight and he doesn't care about that at all, that's going to magnify. Right?

[Unknown Speaker]

He's going to get married and want to take three months off and you'll just keep doing the job. I mean, he'll want to go to his kids games and you'll keep doing the job and he'll want to start another side business and you'll keep doing the job.

[Rachel Cruze]

So either put in some stipulations for him to continue moving forward on what, what you want him to do. Right. I mean, I think that's fair of like, okay, we need to work X amount of hours or profit wise, I take a percentage of the profits from the percentage of work that I do.

[Unknown Speaker]

Like, like, or that I book. Right?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, I mean, whatever it looks like. But you know, structure it where it's fair and, and then from there, if he can get on board, that's fine. But let me just. I will tell you, we work with small businesses all the time through Ontree leadership and it's not always the case, but I'm gonna say 98% of the time we always say the ship that doesn't sell, that never sets sail as a partnership. Like it's the one ship you just don't want to be on as a partnership. Again, small percentage of ones they work, work that. Ashton, you're going to run into this and versus if you just do it on your own. And maybe he's a manager under you or something, you know, works for you. But, but long term, I. I would not continue down this road because there's been no proof of change at all from him initiating it. Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, yeah, I'd say that's.

[Rachel Cruze]

And I feel like you're bitter too, Ashton.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, I mean, you're starting to. Here's the other thing. Don't resent him because that's on you. That's because you didn't set up a boundary and hold to it. You just kept going along with it and going along with it and going along with it. And now you hate the guy. Every time you see his phone pop up like his caller ID pop up on your phone, you're mad. Like, don't do that to him. Just like let him go. Let the person who lacks integrity go. And dude, he's a childhood friend. Y'all wanted business, y'all had big dreams together. And by the way, can we just say this? For a 20 year old making half a million dollar top line, you are absolutely crushing it. You must be amazing at what you do. Imagine if you had a team working behind you and beside you that had the same work ethic and drive you did. You'll be painting. You'll be painting the entire city, right?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, that's a whole nother.

[Unknown Speaker]

You just gotta.

[Rachel Cruze]

I mean, and again, if there was some deal, Ashton, that said, yeah, I'm going to go to school for three years, can you run this thing, take the profits for what you make and I'm going to get back in after I graduate or something, right? I mean like there's, there's common sense ways to approach it, but this doesn't feel like common sense at all, the way he's gone about it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I. I mean, I guess in a perfect world, and I know this is not what you're advising me to do, but have to say it. In a perfect world, we would have a conversation where we do set boundaries. But I've, I've tried to do that before and he kind of just like talks around it and he gets really emotional and I feel like I can't have a real conversation. And then we get done with the conversation and nothing changes. And then, you know, after a week, I'm back to being like, damn, you know, I'm, I'm still getting, still getting the short end of the stick.

[Unknown Speaker]

And in a perfect world, another thing, Dave Ramsey would sent me an email and just say, hey, I just deposited $5 million dollars into your checking account just because I love you, you're handsome. That'd be awesome. And in another perfect. You get me saying like, we keep doing this all day long, right? It's just unfortunately and you're finding it out, we don't live in a perfect world. We live in a messed up, sideways, jacked up world. And I want to commend you, dude. You've tried to have the hard conversation. You're doing great business. You had dreams for you and your buddy and he.

[Rachel Cruze]

Reality. Reality. Yep.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Thanks for the call, Ashton. Thanks to all the guys in the booth. Thank you to our wonderful audience today at the Money and Marriage weekend getaway. Thank you, John, for being a great co host. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Unknown Speaker]

The right questions are the key to unlock personal and professional potential. That means if you're not where you want to be, you are not asking the right questions. I'm Ken Coleman and this is what my new show Front Row Seat is all about. Over my career, I've had the distinct privilege to interview successful people from all walks of life and to coach over 10,000 professionals who wanted more. What sets successful people apart is a never ending desire to learn and grow. Each week I'll be joined by industry leaders and world class experts to have a conversation about how to get better, move up and lead well in work and life. But the best part of this show is you get to be a part of the conversation. Live in studio will have a group of professionals just like you who have the power to ask questions and steer the discussion in real time. It's an opportunity to get real answers to real questions like how to make the right decisions, have hard conversations, live a balanced life and discover your next steps to growth. Join us every Tuesday for conversations that are guaranteed to surprise, challenge and inspire you. Check out Front row Seat wherever you get your podcasts.