Broke Is Normal—Do You Really Want to Be Like Everyone Else?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "Broke Is Normal—Do You Really Want to Be Like Everyone Else?"

Release Date: December 19, 2024
Host: Dave Ramsey and Jade Washall

In this engaging episode of The Ramsey Show, Dave Ramsey and co-host Jade Washall delve into a variety of financial dilemmas faced by listeners. Centered around the theme "Broke Is Normal—Do You Really Want to Be Like Everyone Else?", the episode offers practical advice on wealth-building, debt management, and maintaining financial discipline despite life's unexpected challenges. Below is a detailed summary of the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode.

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1. Inheritance Dilemma

Caller: Jade Washall
Timestamp: [00:55] – [08:14]

Jade seeks guidance on managing a $100,000 inheritance from her late father, which was previously held in a custodial account by her mother. She is conflicted about using this lump sum towards buying a house or sharing it with her half-sisters who supported her family after their father's passing.

Key Points:

• Dave Ramsey’s Advice: Dave emphasizes that jade is under no legal or moral obligation to share the inheritance with her sisters. He states, “You are not lesser of a person if you only follow through on your father's intent” ([05:27]).
• John Deloney’s Perspective: John acknowledges the emotional aspect but aligns with Dave, advising against sharing the money out of guilt unless Jade genuinely wants to do so willingly ([06:58]).
• Family Dynamics: Ramsey clarifies that her mother’s withholding of the information about the inheritance was improper and potentially illegal ([04:24], [08:14]).

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: “They moved back in and took care of you because your family, they loved you... You are under no obligation to repay that act with money” ([03:39]).

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2. Insurance and Marriage Concerns

Caller: Jade Washall
Timestamp: [10:42] – [15:46]

Jade discusses marrying her fiance, who has significant health issues requiring costly medications. She is concerned that marrying him would disqualify her fiance from Medicaid, leading to exorbitant prescription costs.

Key Points:

• Action Steps: Ramsey advises Jade to contact her insurance provider to understand the costs associated with her fiance’s medications under her plan ([12:05]).
• Long-Term Planning: He emphasizes the importance of planning for future healthcare needs and maintaining an adequate emergency fund ([15:35]).
• Debt Avoidance: Ramsey highlights the necessity of avoiding long-term reliance on welfare programs like Medicaid ([14:32]).

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: “Even if it's $7,000, we've got to figure out something else because we don't want to be on welfare for the next 40 years” ([14:32]).

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3. Balancing Debt Payoff and Gift Giving

Caller: Jade Washall
Timestamp: [16:08] – [19:22]

Jade and her husband are following the Ramsey Baby Steps and are nearing the completion of paying off their debt. However, Jade’s wife surprises her with an expensive Christmas gift by saving through discretionary income, causing Jade to question whether to remain strict with debt repayment or accept the gift.

Key Points:

• Ramsey’s Stance: Dave asserts that all surplus funds should go directly towards debt repayment during Baby Step Two, stating, “All of it, all along” ([18:57]).
• John’s Insight: John reinforces that if budgeted as “fun money,” then any unallocated funds should contribute to debt, highlighting that Jade’s wife deviated from the agreed plan ([18:29], [18:48]).
• Financial Discipline: Emphasis on maintaining focus and not allowing generosity to derail financial milestones ([19:22]).

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: “If you're paying off this level... you should have been putting... all of it... towards the debt” ([18:48]).

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4. House Purchase Timing

Caller: Rick from Michigan
Timestamp: [20:43] – [23:35]

Rick and his wife have no debt and a substantial emergency fund. They have saved $150,000 for their next home but are torn between paying in cash or taking a mortgage to move sooner, which his wife prefers.

Key Points:

• Ramsey’s Advice: Dave advises against taking on unnecessary debt, emphasizing adherence to the Baby Steps and waiting until they can afford the house outright ([21:03], [22:14]).
• Emotional Decision-Making: Ramsey warns against succumbing to “house fever” and urges patience and discipline ([22:24]).
• Practical Approach: John highlights the importance of not deviating from their financial plan despite external pressures ([22:53]).

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: “It would be really frivolous and stupid for you guys to go into debt for a mortgage when you don't need to” ([22:24]).

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5. Starting a Franchise with a Disability

Caller: Jade Washall
Timestamp: [24:07] – [29:03]

Jade, who has a brain injury limiting her work capacity, contemplates starting a franchise to earn a six-figure income. She seeks advice on whether this is feasible given her health constraints.

Key Points:

• Delegation and Systems: Dave emphasizes the need for a duplicatable system that Jade can oversee within her limited work hours, ensuring the business can operate independently of her direct involvement ([26:09]).
• Passion Alignment: Ramsey advises choosing a business Jade is passionate about to sustain her commitment ([27:29]).
• Alternative Solutions: Suggests focusing on building systems rather than franchising specifically, and offers resources like Ken Coleman’s assessment to discover suitable work ([28:19], [29:03]).

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: “What you're looking for is you just need a duplicatable system of some kind that you can delegate out and run and hang on” ([26:17]).

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6. Job Loss and Emergency Funds

Caller: Chris from Seattle
Timestamp: [31:34] – [48:00]

Chris, who works as a construction superintendent earning $160,000 annually, was recently laid off. With two cars left on their house payments totaling $37,000 and ongoing real estate holdings, he contemplates halting Baby Step Two to build an emergency fund.

Key Points:

• Ramsey’s Response: Dave discourages pausing debt repayment based on fear and suggests maintaining the financial plan despite the setback ([43:29], [45:09]).
• Strategic Actions: Encourages selling assets if necessary and reaffirming commitment to the Baby Steps despite temporary financial strain ([46:59], [48:00]).
• Accountability: John advises taking responsibility for financial decisions and executing the plan without deviating under pressure ([80:16]).

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: “I'm not okay with this coming from your mother... You do whatever you want to do. I don't want you to share it out of guilt” ([05:27]).
• John Deloney: “You've got to sell that car immediately” ([80:16]).

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7. Navigating Car Loans with an Ex

Caller: Unnamed Caller
Timestamp: [71:14] – [82:29]

A listener discusses co-signing a car loan with an ex-girlfriend, leading to missed payments and damaged credit after their breakup. He seeks advice on managing and rectifying the situation.

Key Points:

• Immediate Solutions: Ramsey advises selling the car to eliminate the debt and avoid further financial harm, recommending a private sale to recoup as much as possible ([76:54], [80:21]).
• Setting Boundaries: Emphasizes the importance of establishing clear financial boundaries to prevent similar issues in the future ([81:03]).
• Personal Accountability: Stresses taking responsibility for financial mistakes to enable personal growth and prevent recurrence ([82:13]).

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: “I would rather be $8,000 in debt than $46,000 in debt” ([34:12]).
• John Deloney: “Don't sell it to CarMax because they're not going to give you the best value” ([80:19]).

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8. Understanding the Ramsey Baby Steps

Caller: Davey
Timestamp: [73:02] – [76:26]

Davey questions the ordering of the Baby Steps, suggesting that budgeting should be the first step, followed by saving an initial emergency fund.

Key Points:

• Clarification on Baby Steps: Dave explains that budgeting is a foundational tool rather than a financial milestone, which is why it’s not designated as Baby Step One ([74:21], [75:02]).
• Milestone Focus: Emphasizes that Baby Steps are designed around financial milestones, with budgeting and other financial habits supporting these goals ([75:02]).
• Consistency: Reiterates the importance of following the established Baby Steps without altering their sequence ([76:21]).

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: “Baby steps are financial milestones. Budgeting is a tool to achieve those milestones” ([75:02]).
• Dave Ramsey: “There is no rush... stick with the steps” ([76:34]).

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9. Car Debt Due to Family Pressure

Caller: Emmanuel from Dallas, Texas
Timestamp: [76:34] – [82:29]

Emmanuel explains how familial pressures led him to purchase a $56,000 car, resulting in significant debt. He seeks clarity on managing this financial burden while balancing family dynamics and multiple young children.

Key Points:

• Ramsey’s Direct Approach: Dave urges Emmanuel to accept responsibility for the financial decision, sell the overpriced car, and set boundaries with family members who exert undue influence ([78:57] – [81:33]).
• John’s Support: Reinforces the necessity of selling the car privately to minimize losses and regain financial stability ([80:21]).
• Emotional Maturity: Highlights the importance of making independent financial decisions without succumbing to external pressures ([82:29]).

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: “Not relying on your mother-in-law does not require a $56,000 car” ([79:26]).
• John Deloney: “You need to sell that car immediately” ([80:21]).

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10. Balancing Financial Priorities During Health Crisis

Caller: Chris from Casper, Wyoming
Timestamp: [63:46] – [73:02]

Chris shares his family's struggle as his wife battles cancer, affecting their financial priorities. He seeks advice on whether to focus on making the present enjoyable or continue saving for the future.

Key Points:

• Ramsey’s Compassionate Advice: Dave advises building a significant cash reserve to cover medical expenses, create memories, and prepare for future financial stability ([65:02], [67:14]).
• Prioritization: Emphasizes that immediate health crises necessitate pausing standard Baby Steps to address pressing needs ([70:13]).
• Long-Term Planning: Recommends using the accumulated cash to support health-related expenses and future financial goals once the crisis abates ([70:13]).

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: “There’s no downside to piling up cash” ([65:22]).
• Dave Ramsey: “Pile cash as high as you can pile it and do nothing else” ([67:14]).

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Conclusion

Throughout this episode, Dave Ramsey and Jade Washall provide robust financial guidance tailored to individual circumstances. From managing unexpected inheritances and navigating debt-related challenges to balancing financial priorities during personal crises, the hosts emphasize responsibility, strategic planning, and adherence to proven financial principles. The episode underscores the importance of maintaining discipline in financial endeavors while adapting to life's unforeseen events.

Key Takeaways:

• Prioritize Debt Repayment: Stick to the Baby Steps and allocate all surplus funds towards eliminating debt.
• Embrace Personal Responsibility: Acknowledge and take ownership of financial decisions to foster growth and prevent future mistakes.
• Adapt Strategically: While unforeseen circumstances may necessitate adjusting financial plans, maintain core financial principles to ensure long-term stability.
• Set Boundaries: Establish clear financial boundaries to protect against undue external pressures that can derail financial progress.

By addressing these diverse financial challenges, The Ramsey Show continues to empower listeners with the tools and mindset needed to build lasting wealth and financial independence.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Joshua Ramsey, personality number one best selling author and is my co host today. Open phones here at Triple 882-55225. Merry Christmas, America. Allie is with us. Allie is in Phoenix. Hi, Ali. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Jade Washall]

Hey, thanks so much for having me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, so I have a question around a large lump sum of money I just inherited. Okay. So I have two older sisters, they're twins, and they are quite a bit older than me. They're technically my half sisters. And my dad came into their life when they were 2, and 16 years later, I was born. So they're about 18 years older than me. And great dad, he unfortunately passed away when I was 4 and they were in their early 20s. And I just found out this past Thanksgiving that through his company's old life insurance, there's $100,000 in an account that I am set to inherit solely.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Jade Washall]

My mom. I'm 26.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so this company, your dad left you as the beneficiary for $100,000 life insurance policy. And why was it not dispersed to you then?

[Jade Washall]

It was in a custodial account.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, at 21, it becomes yours.

[Jade Washall]

Yes. She did not want to tell me about it because she was afraid I would misuse it. Hmm.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. She doesn't really have that option legally, by the way. Okay, so you're now how old?

[Jade Washall]

I'm 26.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. So you have $100,000 and you're going to go pick up the check now, right?

[Jade Washall]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Jade Washall]

However. However, her closing comment to me after informing me of this account was, you know, he was your sister's dad, too, even not by blood.

[John Deloney]

Okay. And she would be right about that.

[Jade Washall]

Yes. My question to you is, you know, when he passed, my sister stepped in. They financially helped take care of me and my mom. They were there every second. They moved back in with us. They are my best friends, my everything.

[John Deloney]

So what do you want to do? There's. There's obviously something that you want to do. What do you want to do?

[Jade Washall]

Well, my holdup is I am in the market to buy a house, and this would be awesome to have to put towards the down payment, but I do think they deserve something.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why? Why do they deserve something? They did not move back in and take care of you all because they thought they had money coming to them.

[Jade Washall]

That's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

They moved back in and took care of you because your family, they loved you. You were a little girl and your mom needed help, and they came in and helped their mother and their little half sister. They didn't do it for money. You're under no obligation to repay that act with money. Yeah, that's like saying, oh, I used to change your diapers, so you need to share this with me. No, it's your freaking job. When you're the mom, you change the diapers. That's what you do. You don't get to play that card later as a way to get paid back.

[John Deloney]

Now, if you just. In your own heart, you thought, man, I want to share this. And it has nothing to do with you feeling all right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is guilt. Your mother is a travel agent for guilt trips, and she's a bit of a control freak because she illegally withheld this information from you for the last five years. I mean, she could get her butt sued if you were a jerk. I mean, what she did is straight up illegal. Okay? Not criminal. But, I mean, she just cannot. You can't do that. It's not. Well, I thought that, you know, she might misuse. It's not her option. The law says at 21, it's yours. The custodial rights dissipate. They go. They disappear at 21. So, you know, I. There's a lot of guilt and passive aggressive floating around your whole family.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So I think you. I think, you know, I personally. Your dad left your name on it. If he wanted their name on it, he would have put their name on it.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

If your mother could have talked him into it, he would have put their name on it. And so she's now trying to fix this the way she wants it afterwards. Sorry. I don't need to be mean about this. And I don't want you to be unkind to anybody. And I appreciate that you love your half sisters and that's wonderful that you have a great relationship. I'm glad you do. But it should not be based on money. It ought to be based on love and family. And so you are not lesser of a person if you only follow through on your father's intent. Your father left you this money. He did not leave it to them. So you do whatever you want to do. I don't want you to share it out of guilt.

[John Deloney]

I don't. I don't either. But I will say. I mean, I will say if I was left, I have. There's four of us. If I was left on my dad's insurance policy. A hundred thousand dollars. And if I just was privy to the fact that my siblings got nothing, I think that I would be inclined to divvy it up. And I'm not saying that that's right or wrong. I just can understand. I can understand it. And I agree with you, Dave. I don't think it should be done out of guilt at all. You should never do any generosity without a cheerful heart, period. But I can understand it. And I think I can understand it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I can understand it if you want to do it.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I am not okay with this coming from your mother, who illegally kept this information from you for five years.

[John Deloney]

Definitely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you know, he loved them too. You know, we love puppies too, so maybe we ought to give some to the Humane Society, you know. Oh, brother. I mean.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, that's not good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Killing me here. Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Because then she might decide that she should have some too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, he loved me too. Yeah, he loved all God's little creatures, you know. Gee, killing me so. And I. I think the situation if you go to like with your brothers and sisters, you're talking about that. I think that's dependent. Why did your dad not leave them on the policy? Well, because they're misbehaving.

[John Deloney]

Sure, sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Then you'd be violating his memory and his intent and his blessing to do that. Or he just screwed up the paperwork. He wasn't watching what he was doing.

[John Deloney]

That's also possible.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that was a mistake. If that was the case, then I might wanna share it.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, and I think that's the thing. She knows what's really at play here. And I think that you were right on.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm 100% sure she is his blood daughter. The other girls aren't. And 100% sure he left it to his daughter. Yeah, there's no question in my mind. I'm reading his. I'm reading his mind. And it's just that the wife didn't like that.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, she didn't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sorry. The way it works. This is the Ramsey Show. Are you working the baby steps? One of the smartest and most impactful changes you can make is to ditch your cash value life insurance plan, if you have one, and replace it with a term life policy. Listen, the only thing a cash value policy is good for is overcharging you for the life insurance and then paying you a crappy rate of return on your overpayment. Stop wasting your money and really focus on getting out of debt and growing your savings for over 25 years. I've trusted and used Zander Insurance to find the best rates on term life insurance from the top rated companies. They keep the whole thing simple. You can apply online or over the phone and they even have low cost plans that don't require an exam. Go to xander.com or call 800-356-4282. Even if you don't have a cash value policy, if you're one of the 70% of people who have no life insurance or not enough, it's even more important to get this done. 800-356-4282 or zander.com Jade Washaw Ramsey, personality, is my co host today. Thanks for hanging out with us. John Deloney and I are doing the Money and Relationships tour this spring. These cities are selling very, very quickly. If you'd like to come, we'd love to have you putting a new twist on this at each stop. We're going to put out a bunch of topics before the show while you're sitting in the audience getting ready. And we're going to, you're going to vote on what we talk about that night. So you're going to form the content for the show that night. And we'll be in Louisville, Kentucky, April 21, Durham, April 23, Atlanta, April 25, Phoenix, May 5, Fort Worth, May 7, Kansas City, May 9. You don't want to miss this Ramseysolutions.com tour, the Money and Relationships Tour. And that's Dr. John DeLoney and me coming to a town near you. Lexington, Kentucky is on the line. John is with us. Merry Christmas, John.

[Jade Washall]

Hey guys. How are you guys doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve, bro. What's up?

[Jade Washall]

Good. So me and my fiance, we're wanting to get married, but we're kind of running into a tricky situation. So basically she has a lot of health issues. She takes a lot of medications. And some of those medications are just ridiculously priced. I mean like one of them is just five grand a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is, what is her health problems?

[Jade Washall]

So she has diabetes, type 1 epilepsy, seizures and she has a bunch of other stuff. But here recently because we have a seven month old, she recently got diagnosed with postpartum depression. So she's having a pretty tough time now. But basically we want to get married. But she's on Medicaid right now, which covers, which fully covers the cost of her medication. And if we get married, they would use my income and deny her Medicaid.

[John Deloney]

And then what would the prescription cost on your insurance?

[Jade Washall]

So and that's kind of why I'm Calling you guys because I'm a little confused about this insurance. Like, I have. I don't know a lot about it. I mean, I see our deductible would be eight grand, which seems like a lot.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. But then you could look and see what how your prescriptions are covered. Have you called and just asked him and said, hey, I'm getting married. I'm moving my wife to my insurance. Here's the medications that she's on. What would it cost me?

[Jade Washall]

I have not.

[John Deloney]

I think that's your first step.

[Jade Washall]

Okay. Okay. Because I thought so. The deductibles on insurance may or may.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not apply to prescription drugs. We don't know in your policy.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Even if it does. Even if it does, it's an $8,000 out of pocket, not $8,000 a month.

[John Deloney]

Which is something you could plan for for the year.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make?

[Jade Washall]

I take home about 32.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what do you do for a living?

[Jade Washall]

I'm an H vac. Just starting out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're just getting your apprenticeship behind you and you're starting to make some tech money, which means you're income is going to double in the next three years. Agreed?

[Jade Washall]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay, that's good. That's a good trade be in, man. Good for you. But here's the thing. One of the ways you want to look at major situations like this is, okay, I've got this barrier number one, what can I do about it? Which Jade gave you. Great suggestion. Go ahead and get more information gathered up because you may be worrying about something or you may have made an assumption here. I mean, I have no idea. It may be that some of those particular drugs have a generic form that can be bought for $500 a month. I don't know. I mean, it wouldn't be that unusual to hear a story like that once you decide, hey, we've got to figure this out because we're getting married, okay? And now then you pan back and say, all right, Even if it's $7,000, we've got to figure out something else because we don't want to be on Medicaid for the next 40 years and not married. So you have to have a long term perspective on this that says, okay, I've got to fix this, because this doesn't play well long term. This month, if it is $7,000 a month, and that's the only option, which is probably not. But if that's the only option, this month sucks.

[John Deloney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you cannot let that be the Only thing that says, I'm going to determine this because we know we don't want to be on welfare for the next 40 years. That's not a good life plan. So we've got to find a way to get off of welfare, which is what Medicaid is, boys and girls. And so let's get off of that and get, let's find a way around that. So private insurance, generics, other solutions to the medical issues. Start talking to the docs and say, okay, Medicaid's off the table, so how are we going to, how are we going to make sure she's okay?

[John Deloney]

That's right. And even if, even if you do call and find out that the prescriptions are covered with her health conditions, you're always going to want your deductible laying around because you never know what's going to pop up that's going to send somebody to the ER or they'll have to have, you know, procedure done. So that's something that you really should weigh heavily. And we say it all the time, when people have three to six months of emergency funds, one of the things you weigh in is the health of you or your spouse. So something to think about.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. It sounds like you got a high deductible, hsa probably.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so that sets you up to have a good emergency fund. And you're probably budgeting to recoup that deductible once a year.

[John Deloney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you know, because you're probably going to burn through it with, you know, an ongoing struggle with epilepsy, an ongoing struggle with some of these other issues. So cool. Hey, John, that's a good question. You're a good man. I'm glad you're looking at this through the right eyes and figuring out how to solve it. Appreciate you joining us. Alex is in Denver. Alex, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Merry Christmas.

[Jade Washall]

Hey, Merry Christmas. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Jade Washall]

Had a question today not about gift giving, but gift receiving. So long story short, we've been using your guys baby steps since about late 2022. So a little over a year. We're just finishing step two. We're on to our last $8,000. We should be done by about May of this year being all paid off. So we're excited. But the issue is, so I found out that my wife has been saving some of, some of her discretionary income on the side, some of the pocket changes spending money that she's had over the years. And she bought me what I Would consider a pretty expensive Christmas gift. What about $850?

[Dave Ramsey]

What?

[Jade Washall]

It's something that I've wanted for years. I'm a nerd. What is it, Legos and Star Wars? It's. It's the. It's the Lego Millennium Falcon. The giant one.

[John Deloney]

How long did she save up her fun money to do this?

[Jade Washall]

Only six or seven months.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Jade Washall]

And so the thing is, I'm still in the trenches. My mind. Is it paying off our debt? How come hers is free and clear?

[Dave Ramsey]

How come hers. How come hers is not in the trenches?

[Jade Washall]

I don't know. I thought it was.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Was the fun money. I just have a question. Was the fun money that something that you guys decided was going to be on the budget? And it is. And you have a line item, too?

[Jade Washall]

Yep.

[John Deloney]

Okay. And you've been spending yours on what you consider fun?

[Jade Washall]

For the most part. Usually mine goes towards day trips and vacations for us.

[John Deloney]

Okay. And then she's so a little.

[Jade Washall]

Little like, you know, out in the local area, going to a nice restaurant every once in a while.

[John Deloney]

Okay. And then she's. Instead of spending hers on what she would consider fun, whether it be for her or both of you, she's stacked it up for this gift.

[Jade Washall]

Yes.

[John Deloney]

And what you're thinking is, don't stack it up for the gift. If you're going to do anything, put it on the debt and.

[Jade Washall]

Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, it's a tenth of our remaining debt. Why wouldn't we just, you know, pay off that much more of it?

[John Deloney]

Well, because you guys said you had fun money.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I disagree.

[John Deloney]

Well, I'm not saying that. That's right. But I am saying that you guys created a budget. You both shook and agree on it. You spent your money on one way, and now you're. Now that you see her, she's been. She stacked up hers. You're like, oh, wait a minute. I want. The truth is, Dave is right. You guys shouldn't have been doing fun money to begin with.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you're paying off this level and we're not going out to eat, we're not going on vacation. We're totally intense and totally focused. And I don't know how in the crud you come up with 850 bucks in a super gazelle intense budget, you should have been putting. You should have put neither every dollar out. And anytime you have money left at the end of the month, you throw it at the dad.

[John Deloney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't stack it up in the corner. This is not a squirrel fund. So, I mean, you do whatever you want to do, but that is not following the baby steps.

[John Deloney]

Neither of you.

[Dave Ramsey]

When you're in baby step two, neither one of you are. When you're in baby step two, you're throwing everything. You don't see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there. We're not going on vacation. We're getting out of debt. And so you guys are. You've been focused, but you've not been intense. And so you do whatever y'all want to do in your plan. Our plan is all this money should have been going towards the debt. All of it, all along.

[John Deloney]

You would have been done by now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah, Probably. Probably. This is the Ramsay Show. Hey, guys. I've never done this before, but I'm partnering with a nutrition company, Field of Greens. Each fruit and vegetable in field of greens is selected by doctors to support heart, liver and kidney health plus metabolism for healthy weight. And your doctor will notice your improved health or field of Greens will give you your money back. I can get behind a promise like that. Go to fieldofgreens.com Ramsey and get 15% off with promo code Ramsey. Fieldofgreens.com Ramsey Jade Washall, Ramsey personality, is my co host. Today. Student loan debt is an epidemic and defaulting on debt makes you feel even worse. But our question of the day sponsor, why refi refinances defaulted private student loans and they build a custom loan based on your ability to pay. You'll have a payment you can afford with a low fixed interest rate that you couldn't get anywhere else. Go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[John Deloney]

All right, today's question comes from Rick in Michigan. My wife and I have no debt. A fully funded emergency fund, a paid off house. And we have about 150,000 saved for down payment on our next home. We follow the Ramsey plan and we are baby steps millionaires. Congrats. We are so close to having enough to pay for the next house in cash between savings and the proceeds from our current house. However, my wife wants to move sooner than later. She has suggested getting a mortgage again and keeping some of the down payment savings to use for monthly payments and other such ideas. I love my wife, but I know these aren't great financial decisions. I don't want to buy a house in a manner that's not financially responsible and then resent her for pressuring me into it. Am I being a Jerk here. No, I think you're being a really smart guy and I think you're holding up your end of what you guys said. The deal is because when you walk through the baby steps, you know there's seven of them. And part of that is you kind of draw this line in the sand and you go, okay, like, we're not people that borrow money anymore. Right. And in this case, it would be really frivolous and stupid for you guys to go into debt for a mortgage when you don't need to. That's just. I mean, truly, that's stupid. You don't need to do it. So I think that you're right. You have some conversations to have with your wife. Something is pulling her in another direction. I don't know if it's comparison. I don't know if it's something she saw some ladies at church doing. I don't know, something. Something is pulling her in a direction.

[Dave Ramsey]

Houses. Quit looking at houses until you have the money. When you go look at a nicer house, you come home and your brain, you have get house fever.

[John Deloney]

True, true.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you have to take like cold showers and stuff to get rid of it. It's. It'll. It'll destroy your brain or rot your brain. And so that's what happens. I mean, Instagram or physically visiting the house or looking at the Monzilla or whatever else. Quit doing that. You know, don't go test drive a car when you got the money to buy it. All it does is stir you up and. Cause you act like a four year old.

[John Deloney]

That's such a good point. You're right. They're looking at houses too soon. You need to wait till you have the money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. Just save up. And then when we're ready to make the move, then we'll start talking about, you know, looking. And this is what, this is the budget we have. And we don't need to look at houses more expensive than the money we have. And you know, it's a simple thing because it causes this. So, you know. No, honey, the process that got us here, what to millionaire at our age, was to get out of debt, house and everything. I cannot, I cannot go back into debt. I can't do it. And it's not an act of love towards you for me to cave and do something that's not good for our future and our family. So.

[John Deloney]

No, yeah, I'm reading this again. She's desperate. She's like, oh, she saw something.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm guarantee you she got the fever. Oh, yeah, Laura's in Tampa, Florida. Hey, Laura. Merry Christmas.

[Jade Washall]

Hey. Merry Christmas, Dave and Jade. I am so excited to be talking to you guys.

[John Deloney]

Happy to talk to you.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's up?

[Jade Washall]

Well, my husband and I are baby steps millionaires and I have you guys to thank for that. So I really appreciate everything you're doing. My question is, given my disability, I'm wondering if you think I can successfully start and run a franchise as long as I start debt free. And if not, is there anything else that I can do to earn six figures ever again?

[Dave Ramsey]

What is your disability?

[Jade Washall]

I acquired a brain injury about six years ago, and I haven't worked since I was a marketing director and I coached independent contractors. Top producing independent contractors in real estate. And I've got these great skill sets that are just kind of sitting here with me, and it's driving me crazy.

[John Deloney]

Well, what are the limitations that you face because of the brain injury?

[Jade Washall]

Sure. So I can work about two hours a day, about four to five days a month. I have really bad days where I can't get out of bed, and. And then I have some mild cognitive impairments. I make more mistakes than I used to before. Yeah, those. And I mean, there's a lot of chronic conditions, but that's the, that's what really applies to the work situation.

[John Deloney]

And what type of franchise are you trying to open up?

[Jade Washall]

Well, we have a cleaner at our house and she's fantastic. I was thinking, I know that she's interested in talking with me, but if I could bring her on as a GM in residential cleaning services and her portfolio comes with us, that maybe that's an option.

[John Deloney]

Okay. And so you're saying I can have her hire a bunch of cleaners and I'll just run the thing and she's my partner.

[Jade Washall]

That's where my mind is right now.

[John Deloney]

Interesting. I'm not gonna lie. I'm hung up on the two hours a day, four to five days a month. Now, I'm not saying that your. Your screen says, is it possible to make six figures again? I think so. Okay. But this is definitely a limitation. Dave. What?

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you think you can work two hours a day?

[Jade Washall]

Correct. My brain starts to cognitively. I start to decline after about two hours of problem solving. And that's when I make more mistakes and things get a lot harder for me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So whatever it is you're going to run, obviously we have to be able to do it with that number of hours.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then everything else has to be delegated to the rest of the team and can you make six figures? Absolutely. You make six figures. But I don't know if it's in house cleaning or not. I don't know about that. But I think you've figured out what we've got to work with here now. And so what we have to do is we have to have something that makes, that we can leverage those two hours into to lead others to run things on the other six hours a day out of eight that the place is running and I'm not running it.

[John Deloney]

What made you choose house cleaning? Is that something you're passionate about and know about or is it just because you have someone who is a possible partner?

[Jade Washall]

Exactly. It's. I know that daily operations is where I need someone to take over so that I can do more of the high level stuff of scaling a business. So she's the only person I have in mind as a potential gm and that's her expertise. But that's not my passion at all.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I would not build something that you didn't have passion about because it's going to be too hard. Whether you're facing brain injury or just doing a small business is hard, number one. Number two, I would not build something that is dependent upon a single individual. I want a concept that works and then I'll look for the individual to plug into it. And if that individual doesn't work, I'll plug a different individual into it. But we don't do org charts in our organization charts in Ramsey based on the person that's here. We do the organization chart based on the proper way to run the business. And then the people that are here populate that chart. So every time I built something for, built a job for someone that's really messed me up because then that person leaves and you're screwed.

[Jade Washall]

Right. I think I'm in a place of just pulling straws because I just want something.

[Dave Ramsey]

I appreciate the ambition and you do have capacity to do something. So. But don't, but don't. You know, there's no rush. You're millionaires, you're okay. You're not, you know, it's not like you need the money to pay the bills you need. You just need something to do because you know, you're a doer and so that's a good thing. But let's, let's take the steps and say, all right, what am I passionate about? What can I plug into? How can I build this out in such a way that we're backfilling for these deficits, but we're utilizing the gift that I do have, which is very powerful. Two hours a day.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And some people don't work but two hours a day anyway. They just sit around the rest of the time. So.

[Jade Washall]

So do you think, do you think franchise is still there?

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't. I don't think franchise answers your question. What answers your question is building a system of some kind? It could be a franchise, but what you're looking for is you just need a duplicatable system of some kind that you can delegate out and run and hang on. I'm going to send you the assessment for Ken Coleman's finding the work you're wired to do and send you the book as well. I think you'll enjoy that and it may spur some ideas. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. I'm not a fan of the big banks and you probably already know which ones I mean, but I do like credit unions because they're nonprofit organizations that focus on their members. And I'm proud to endorse Fair Winds Credit Union because they share the Ramsey mission of helping people get out of debt and live generously. In fact, they design products to help keep you from going into debt in the first place. Fairwinds has been in business for over 75 years and they serve hundreds of thousands of members worldwide. You can feel secure because your deposits are federally insured by the NCUA up to $250,000. It's easy to join and Fairwinds partners with more than 5,000 credit union locations around the country, so you can bank in person wherever you live. But if you prefer the online experience, you can log on to Fairwinds and do anything you could do at a physical location. So go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey to learn more. And while you're there, look at the combined checking and savings account bundle they created just for Ramsey fans to help you take control of your finances. That's Fairwinds. F A I R W I n d s.org Ramsey Jade Washall, Ramsey personality is my co host. Open phones at 888-825-5 225. Brian is in Atlanta. Hey Brian, how are you?

[Jade Washall]

I'm all right. Thanks for having me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Jade Washall]

What's up? I recently found some of your videos scrolling Facebook and started listening to some of your stuff. I haven't done any of the things that you talk about, but I'm trying to get started. I recently bought a truck. It was a horrible decision that I didn't know better at the time. And I'm a prime Example of. Just because you make more money doesn't mean you fix the problem if you don't know how to spend it. Because I doubled my income three years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ago and celebrated it with a truck payment.

[Jade Washall]

I did. And I've just steadily gone downhill. And I've been trying to sell it, but I owe a little bit more than it's worth because I took the hit of depreciation on a brand new truck.

[John Deloney]

Man. How much did you pay for that truck?

[Jade Washall]

Over 60 grand. Finance? No, money down, man.

[John Deloney]

Oh, man.

[Jade Washall]

I was raised that credit was everything, and I've worked my butt off to have really good credit, and it's done nothing but hurt me. Well, I have an opportunity because the trucks are limit and Toyota Corporation is gonna have to buy it back. However, the state I'm in has a $0.20 per mile deduction for depreciation. And that's gonna mean I have to pay a little bit over eight grand just for them to buy out my loan. I don't have a grant sitting in the bank. That would be a loan that I'd have to get just to get out of this loan.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you would be trading an eight grand loan for a $60,000 loan.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, I got like 46,000 left on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, okay, sure.

[Jade Washall]

But I have the credit. I can go to the bank and sign the payment and get a signature loan for 8 grand. It's just, is it the right move.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then they pay off the loan or they take the truck?

[Jade Washall]

They pay off the loan and take the truck.

[John Deloney]

So then you.

[Dave Ramsey]

So did you sell your truck for 46,000 then could.

[Jade Washall]

I know I've had it for sale for 46,000 for a while.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. All right. So it's not. What's it worth?

[Jade Washall]

It's. Last time I looked, it's about 40 trading, I think said mid-30s. The value plummeted on these things because all the recalls got it, and it just. It killed the value of these trucks.

[John Deloney]

So they're. You're getting a better deal selling it back to them?

[Jade Washall]

I think so, yeah. It's just, you know, I'm trying. Trying to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. I would rather be $8,000 in debt than $46,000 in debt.

[John Deloney]

I mean, it's similar to what we would tell anybody if they were upside down in a car. We tell them to go to the. To the bank, get a loan, clear the difference, and get something in cash. And this is very similar to that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the only difference is your buyer happens to be Toyota, but. Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Mm.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how quick is all this coming through?

[Jade Washall]

I have a bunch of documents I have to get together and send to them to get an offer to find out what they're actually willing to pay for the truck.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mm.

[Jade Washall]

But it'll probably be the first week or so of January.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, so they'll cut you a check pretty quick then?

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, they're gonna cut it to the bank.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what I mean.

[Jade Washall]

I got to pay the difference.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's what I mean.

[John Deloney]

Do you have.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, I would do that deal.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. And you might have something, I don't know, just talking to you, you might have something laying around that you could sell to get the money to clear the difference without taking out a loan. Just a thought.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you got to have to get a little truck of some kind of little $5,000 something to get around in.

[John Deloney]

Oh, no, that sounds. That guy sounds like he's got a lot of little things with engines laying around that he could sell.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's kind of got that feeling. Yeah. Adams and Spokane. Hey, Adam. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Jade Washall]

Thank you very much.

[Dave Ramsey]

How can I help?

[Jade Washall]

So, I have a question about interest bearing loans. My understanding is that interest bearing loans between brothers is prohibited. If I put my money in a savings account and I'm getting 4% interest back, am I just removing that responsibility from my loan? Because now the bank is then charging another believer interest using my money.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not in charge of the bank, and the bank is not a brother.

[Jade Washall]

Well, what if the bank is being run by believers?

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not. A bank is an institution. It's not the employees. If an individual. We can have a discussion about an individual loaning an individual money, but institutions don't have souls, and I promise you, banks don't have souls. Sure.

[Jade Washall]

Right. But then on the back end of that, if somebody goes to a bank, like if I were to go to a bank and borrow money for a mortgage, I'm using the money of other believers, am I? Maybe. Am I enabling them to.

[Dave Ramsey]

How do you know that they didn't loan you the money, though?

[Jade Washall]

Right. The bank pulled a whole bunch of people. People's money. And so I don't know who the money belongs to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. So you can't make that judgment. Again, you can't make that judgment.

[Jade Washall]

Right. It just seems like that's a way to sort of obfuscate what's happening. So that removes responsibility from anybody?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, that's not the intent. The intent is. That's not the intent of the scripture to start with. And banks didn't all get together and go, you know, there is this line in Deuteronomy, and to get around that, we're going to create this whole system. No, they didn't do that. I promise. They didn't think a thing about Deuteronomy, not once. And so, no, that's not. You're not doing anything wrong. It's like saying if I do business, if I buy a pizza at Pizza Hut, but they take credit cards for other people to buy a pizza and put them in debt. Am I supporting Visa putting people in debt through Pizza Hut? No, you're not. You're just buying a pizza.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, you're really working. You're really working hard here to be guilty of something.

[John Deloney]

That's a good way to put it, Dave.

[Jade Washall]

Something that I don't really hear anybody talk about. So I'm sort of.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'll help you. I'll tell you why, okay? Because the scripture that you're referring to does not say interest in the Hebrew. It only says it in the new King or in the King James. The rabbis in Judaism do not teach what you're talking about. Thus, Jewish people have been in the banking business from day one, okay? From the time there's been Jewish people. So that most. Most scholars, even evangelical scholars, will tell you that the actual Hebrew word there is better translated usury than it is interest. And so it's not really a situation of Christians can't charge interest at all. Usury is the overcharge of interest. Christians should not overcharge interest. And so there were states decades ago that had usury laws that prevented interest rates from being above a certain level because of that. And it came from that scripture. But the word usury, there is a. When you do the word studies on it and you get down into the scholarship on it is more akin to overcharging of interest than it is the charging of interest. So you could make the case that credit cards are userous because they are 18 to 28%. That's a userous. An overcharging of interest rates. Probably can't make that case with a mortgage rate. And I can make the case that you shouldn't be borrowing money at all because there's not a single positive reference in the Bible to debt. But I can't tell you that borrowing money is a sin. As a matter of fact, I'm positive that the Bible never once refers to debt as a sin. It refers to it as lacking in sense. You're a slave. It's a curse upon you. If you go into debt, all these negative connotations, but never once, once is it a sin issue, and never once is it mentioned as a salvation issue. It's not. It's just instructional from scripture to avoid debt. It's instructional in scripture to have a budget. It's instructional from scripture to live on less than you make, to not co sign. There are instructions all through scripture regarding money. This is one of them. To not overcharge, particularly your brother. A userous amount of interest. But dude, when you fall down the Pharisee rabbit hole where you're trying to unpack every uncross every T and every jot and tittle, you really can't pull the thread long enough to make. To keep the sweater from. To keep the sweater intact. It just doesn't work. And so you walk in grace, brother. Walk in grace. And be good and be kind, be compassionate, be wise. And don't try to figure out how the banking system is somehow built on dodging one Bible scripture that doesn't even mean that in the Hebrew. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Jade Washall]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. Hey, it's that time of year. It's starting to get a little bit colder. It's getting a little bit dark earlier. And sometimes if you're like me, you just want to stay inside and get cozy. And for me, my perfect cozy night is me and all of my family piled under blankets, watching a movie, sitting by the fire, maybe even reading a book. Listen, whatever your perfect night in looks like, sometimes therapy can feel a bit like that. A time when you can settle in, finally, exhale, replenish your energy, and begin to take care of yourself. Therapy is a great way to bring yourself some comfort during the chaos and rush of the holiday season or any other time of year. Taking the time to pause and be mindful is one of the reasons I Recommend Better Help. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy with licensed therapists. You can talk with your therapist just about anytime and just about anywhere, so it's convenient for your schedule. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a therapist and you can switch therapists for no extra cost. Find comfort this December with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com DeLoney.

[Dave Ramsey]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey. Your host, Jade Washall number one best selling author Ramsey personality is my co host today. Open phones, triple 882-55-5225. Zachary's in Houston. Hey Zachary, how are you?

[Jade Washall]

Oh, I'm doing all right. How are you, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. Merry Christmas. How can we help?

[Jade Washall]

So I'm in a bit of a situation that I'm looking for some guidance on. My wife and I just started your program about six months ago. We're $43,000 worth of consumer debt down so far.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Jade Washall]

And I just lost my job a few days ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh no. Right before Christmas. That sucks.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was pretty exciting to get a layoff right before Christmas.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you, what do you do? What kind of work were you doing?

[Jade Washall]

Construction superintendent. So I was making about $160,000 a year. I've got a job lined up to start again in January. That's good for 170. Oh, well, this worked out to kind of manipulate your system a little bit for my own peace of mind. And my wife and I are debating. I want to stop baby step two right now because we have two vehicles in our house. That's all that's left. And I want to do a six month emergency fund and then go back to attacking everything.

[John Deloney]

That's just because you're feeling some type of way because you lost your job.

[Jade Washall]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

But did you get severance?

[Jade Washall]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Okay. So how many, how many checks are, how many checks are you gonna miss?

[Jade Washall]

Theoretically, just two.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so where's the panic?

[Jade Washall]

But it definitely has universe.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. It makes you nervous. But where's. There's no reason to panic?

[Jade Washall]

Well, for a long time before I took this job, I tried to out earn my stupidity and that didn't work. Yeah. So. So I took the job and like I said, we got pretty serious about it six months ago. I don't know, it's just.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is your wife.

[Jade Washall]

Nothing. We're a single family income family.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I would not reorganize the baby steps. Because you got scared once. No.

[Jade Washall]

So you just keep going, tackle the cars and then move on to it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, if you push pause on everything for, for a couple weeks while you get your paycheck started again, that's fine, that's fine. But, but are we gonna, because of the layoff, are we gonna in January not pay down on the cars and instead build up an emergency fund because we got laid off back in December? No, no, that's just being. That's, that's fear based.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's also not wise.

[Jade Washall]

Well, that's. That's the reason for the call. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. How much do you owe on the cars?

[Jade Washall]

We owe 13,000 on my truck and 24 on her car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right.

[Jade Washall]

So we're not bad.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sometimes when I want to flip this around a little bit, it wakes my spirit up and I shock myself a little bit. So I'm going to do that to you. Okay. Instead of building your emergency fund because you're scared, sell both cars because you're scared.

[John Deloney]

That's good.

[Dave Ramsey]

You ain't that scared. Well, all of a sudden, it got silent. All of a sudden.

[Jade Washall]

Here's the kicker. Here's the kicker that we've been waiting for. That hasn't happened yet. I own a little bit over a million dollars worth of real estate that's been on the market between eight different houses and when interest rates, sales stopped. We've kind of been waiting for one of those to sell to just go ahead and pay everything off and be done.

[Dave Ramsey]

See, all of a sudden, you start thinking different. When I sold your cars, mm, that's what I did. I do that kind of stuff to myself. Because what that does is it says, okay, you're not really that scared. You're just trying to intellectually manipulate a system that's not really broken. So work the system, dude.

[Jade Washall]

In fairness, I do have photos out to a dealership to buy my truck because I have a ton of equity and half that's good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, didn't you say I really wasn't suggesting you sell them? I'm just saying if you're that scared, that's the move you would make. Yeah, but you're not that scared is what that points out. So that. Because then all of a sudden I found out we got a million dollars where the real estate floating around in this conversation that didn't come up when we first got laid off of few minutes ago. So, no, you're going to leapfrog through all these baby steps when that other stuff sells so fast anyway, no, you don't need to sell your truck. And no, you don't need to stop if you want to take a heartbeat. Take one month off of don't pay down on debt. Pile up cash for one month out of your budget, whatever you can live on living on nothing. And then reapply that cash to the debt when you get comfortable again the other side of that and start, push a pause button on the baby steps, then push play again later on. That's fine. But no, we're not going to do them out of order because you got laid off. Yeah.

[John Deloney]

And you really have to think through this because the. The point of. Part of the point of the order of these steps is you want to actually finish paying off the debt. If you were to do these out of order, number one, it'd take you forever to save up the three to six months because you're still paying payments every month. So it would elongate that part of the process. And then people would be like, oh, I got three to six months. I can just let that debt simmer.

[Dave Ramsey]

The car doesn't really kind of count.

[John Deloney]

It's not real debt. And then before you know it, you haven't done anything. And so do it the right way. It works for a reason. And, you know, you're not the exception of.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what I would do is I would take this layoff and the fear that goes with that as my motivator to kick this thing into gear and get finished.

[John Deloney]

Boom.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm just going. I'm gonna. I'm gonna use that as my push button. And Jaden's with us. And we'll bring Jaden up in a minute here. So here's another thing. You guys listening out there. If you've listened to the show for a long time, you've heard this happen before. And, Jade, you alluded to it a minute ago. The Bible says, out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. So what's going on inside of you comes out of your mouth before you realize it. In other words. And so it often happens on the show when you and I or any of the other personalities ask someone, okay, how much debt have you got? And they give us, like, their credit card debt and something else. I'm like, and how much do you owe on your car? And they.

[John Deloney]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because they didn't have that in the debt column in their head.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, that's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so out of that, what that tells us is in their heart, that's not debt. That's right, because it's so freaking normalized that you've normalized the backache to where you've always had a backache. And you go, oh, yeah, I forgot about that ache. Doc says, what hurts? Oh, nothing. What about your back? Oh, yeah, yeah. Because I've gotten used to that backache, you know, and it doesn't no longer feel that way. And so. And they do that with student loans, too.

[John Deloney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

They put it in a different column in their brain, store it back in the corner. How much debt you got and how much on the student loans. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And so it's. Don't recategorize this stuff because society has. Because society is stupid. Normal is broke in America. Looking good, driving good. A student loan that's been around so long you think it's a pet. And you recategorize these things in your brain. Don't do that. Don't do that. Put it all right where it needs to be in the crosshairs and pull the trigger. Knock it out. Knock it out, baby. This is the Ramsey Show. You've got a lot to keep organized in life. Kids and calendars and carpooling and cleaning. I mean, it is so much. That's why you need a Knockbox. That way if something happens to you, you leave your loved ones with happy memories and not a huge mess. Knockbox is a complete system to help you organize your accounts, personal history, estate planning documents, and all your other info in one place. I'm talking about everything from life insurance policies and social media accounts to your dog's vet divided into 15 simple categories. Plus they've got checklists that tell you what to add to each folder so.

[Jade Washall]

Your family won't have to guess where everything is.

[Dave Ramsey]

So start getting organized [e-mail] Ramsey your.

[Jade Washall]

Family will thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's knockbox.

[John Deloney]

N. Okay. Box.com Ramsey hey guys, what's up? It's Jade. Look, let's be real. With everything that's been going on, staying on track with your money gets tough between bills, trying to pay off debt, saving money. Honestly, it's a lot and I've been there. That's why I'm excited to tell you that Dave Ramsey and I are hosting a free live stream on January 23rd to help you take control of your money in 2025. Plus, Rachel Cruz and George Campbell are also going to join us for a live Q and A where you can finally get your money questions answered on the spot. And check this out. You could win $4,000 in cash. It's a giveaway. Imagine what you could do with all that money. All you've got to do to enter the giveaway is to sign up for the live stream. That's it. So go to ramseysolutions.com live stream and sign up today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Jade Washaw, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. Jaden is in Casper, Wyoming. Hi, Jaden. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Jade Washall]

Thank you for taking my call, fellas.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. Merry Christmas. What's up?

[Jade Washall]

My wife's been pestering me for quite some time now to take her on a vacation. I'm not sure right now is the time to do it. We're both pretty young. I'm 25. She's 21. We got a little one on the way here before too long. And we're getting ready to purchase a property we intend to build on.

[John Deloney]

Okay, do you guys have debt?

[Jade Washall]

No debt. No debt. We've been very fortunate that way. Community college educated.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household income?

[Jade Washall]

I bring about 50,000 home after taxes, and she brings about 20,000. And that's part of the issue, is that next year her income will be going away. She's a preschool teacher now, but with the little one, she's going to stay home.

[John Deloney]

Do you have an emergency fund saved?

[Jade Washall]

We do. The thing that concerns me is that after the down payment on the property, that's what we'll be left with, is with our emergency fund. So to take that vacation, we'd be kind of having to dig into that a little bit.

[John Deloney]

Well, a vacation is not an emergency, so I would not dig into the emergency fund to take an emergency to take a vacation ever. What does she want to spend?

[Jade Washall]

She wants to go somewhere warm, you know, Wyoming, this time of year. You want to kind of leave it a little bit about 2000.

[John Deloney]

2000. Okay, so have you run. Have you run out the numbers? On what? Here's the thing. I'm not saying. I'm not saying no, and I'm not saying when, but you can decide when you can look at this and go, okay, my wife wants to take a vacation. We've never taken a vacation. We're debt free. We have an emergency fund. We're also trying to move in this house. What. What can that look like? And when is the time to take it? Because if you just tell her no and you kind of just swat it away like a gnat, she's gonna get irritated.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, no, that's not your position anyway. It's your position for two. She's not a child. Okay? The two of you ought to sit down as two adults and go, okay, yeah, vacation is a good thing. Emergency fund is a good thing. Having a baby is a good thing. Buying this piece of ground is a good thing. None of these are bad things. Now, where do they fit in our lives with our goals as grownups? You can't just be a kid on the cereal aisle throwing a fit. You have to be like an adult, both of you. And so I don't want you being her daddy. And have to talk her off the ledge. I want her to grow up and look at it and say, as a grown woman who has a child, what is responsible for me? Yeah, I want to take a vacation. I'd love to take a vacation. But as a grown woman looking at this, I can't afford to do it right this second because I'm not going to be working next year after the baby comes. Or as a grown woman looking at this, I've got a child on the way. I really want to do this. You know, we do have $86,000 in the emergency fund. We probably can go ahead and take a vacation. Because you've overfunded the emergency fund, bubba. I don't know what's in this emergency fund, but I mean, she needs to participate in this decision as a grown up, not as someone who has a parent that they're married to.

[John Deloney]

That's right, but. And if she's laid out how you guys can do this, then.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's wise.

[John Deloney]

And it's wise, then you've also got to be open.

[Dave Ramsey]

You gotta be a grown up, though. It can't be. I want it. I deserve it. You know, I don't. Bull crap. That's what 14 year olds do. That's not what grown women do. Grown men do.

[John Deloney]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

So no, you have to be emotionally mature and say what is good for our family. And if in the midst of that we can do this reasonably and we don't leave our family vulnerable with no emergency fund because we went on vacation, that would be stupid.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, that's not good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or leave our family vulnerable since you're going to be quitting work and staying home with the child and you can't make your bills because you went on vacation last winter because it's cold in Wyoming, which is not a shock to anyone in Wyoming for sure. And so, you know, that kind of. So I mean, what I want to do is just pull her into the conversation as a grown woman, not as someone who's. I have. I can't get my husband to let me do stupid stuff. I mean, this is just. That's ridiculous. That's not a conversation you want to have in a marriage. It needs to be. The two of you are. We have this child, we have his future. What makes sense. And yes, vacations are part of the equation. I got no issue with that at all. But. But where they fit is your point, Jade. Absolutely. You know where and when.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. They don't strike me as people who are not smart with their money. They've paid off their debt. They've got an emergency fund there. Looks like they're trying to do this house the right way. I have a feeling that he's laser focused and sometimes has to remember like, hey, we can, we can do some things. Sometimes that's just my, my spidey sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Could be, could be, yeah. Could be loosening the nerd up a little.

[John Deloney]

Loosening up the nerd, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

But she needs to do that with reason.

[John Deloney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not with emotion.

[John Deloney]

That's right. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that, that's a fair. That's a fair request for a grown up. Steven is in Little Rock, Arkansas. Hi, Steven. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Merry Christmas.

[Jade Washall]

Merry Christmas. How are y'all?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help?

[Jade Washall]

Okay, so here's my situation. I'm 20 years old, I'm engaged, and I'm planning on getting married in June. And that being said, we're looking to get an apartment together in June because that's what you do. You move in together once you get married. I'm completely debt free. She has a little bit of student loan debt, but that's kind of beside the point. The question for me is, my grandma opened up a credit card for me to use strictly as a gas card. And that's my only credit card. And she always pays it on time. But that being said, I have.

[Dave Ramsey]

She pays it. You're 20 years old. Why's your grandmother pay your card?

[Jade Washall]

That. That was her way of saying that she wants to support me through college.

[Dave Ramsey]

That was her gift to me.

[Jade Washall]

And so I can totally afford my own gas. But that's just good gifts she wanted to give to me. And. But I know that I want to get this apartment. And I really like the sound of what y'all talk about, of letting your credit score roll over to nothing.

[John Deloney]

Uh huh.

[Jade Washall]

But I'm afraid that if I say, hey, grandma, thank you, but let's close this card, I appreciate the gesture. I can pay for this. That my credit score will plummet, but it won't flip and disappear before that time in June when I'm trying to get an apartment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Honey, you don't have to have a credit score to get an apartment.

[Jade Washall]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

That's, that's, that's mythology. We've done this about six times in Ramsey in the last six or eight years. One of the personalities will jump on the phone and call 15 apartment complexes and say, hey, I'm moving to Nashville. Do you guys. I don't have a credit score because I'm just out of school, and I got zero credit score. Do you guys. You guys rent to people without a credit score? 9 out of 10 say they do. Some of them. A couple of them want an extra deposit, but most of them are just, no, it's no big deal. Come on over. That's just complete mythology that people have spread out there among your age group. It's just not true.

[Jade Washall]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

9 out of 10 or don't care if you have a credit score.

[Jade Washall]

Awesome. I did not know that. I was under the impression that my credit score would plummet and that might jeopardize whether or not we'd be able to move in your.

[John Deloney]

Your credits. When you stop borrowing money, your credit score will go away. It's not going to plummet. It's just going to disappear. But to Dave's point, you're. He's right. There are plenty of places that you don't need a credit score to go, and so you'll just do your due diligence and find one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. Just, you know, can't rent to those. Can't rent from those guys because they require one. I can rent from these people over here, though.

[John Deloney]

And by the way, that's a great litmus test, because when you move into an apartment, you want to have a super or whoever's in charge that uses their brain because things are going to happen. You're going to need to talk to them about things, and you want something fixed. Right. You want somebody who uses their brain. So that's a great way to start.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And if the only way they approve you is by a number, that's not using your brain. By definition.

[John Deloney]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very good. Good stuff. Yeah. You can look those calls up. We've had different personalities do this over the years, and they're on the YouTube channel, and you can see them making phone calls to the apartments, and. And it's recorded, and you can hear the conversation. Yeah.

[John Deloney]

George did one on. On the fine print, remember? Yeah, that's the one I remember. And he. He did. He went out and he was able to call him, and there were plenty that did. You just have to call around a little bit. It's not going to be the first. It may not be the first doorstep that you go to. That's all.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And yes, you need to. It'll be good for your marriage to get all off the grandmother dole.

[John Deloney]

I know. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Good for you. Good for you, Stephen. Well done, sir. This is the Ramsey show, folks. The Ramsey Christmas cash giveaway is here, and you could Win big. We're giving away $500 prizes each week and one grand prize of $5,000. Enter daily for your chance to [e-mail] giveaway. It's that easy. Plus our 50 of Christmas deals is on right now. Get up to 30% off best sellers and life changing gifts that won't break the holiday budget. Ramseysolutions.com store Jade Washaw Ramsey personality is my co host today. Thanks for being with us. Christmas is here. Can you believe it? Wow. Hey, last minute shoppers out there, it's game time. Don't miss a last chance to grab a life changing book or set of tools this Christmas to help people really. I mean you can either give them a great book that changes their life or an ugly tie. You get a choice, you know, total money makeovers 30% off. Building a non anxious life is 30% off. Breaking free from broke is on sale. Georgia's first number one questions for human decks are just $12. All kinds of goodies and in most places we can still get it to you but you need to go there today. Ramsey Solutions.com store Chris is in Seattle. Hi Chris. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

[Jade Washall]

Thank you much.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Jade Washall]

Well, I'm calling in to understand kind of what my focus should be. I've got three year old kid at home. I've got a wife who's been battling cancer for the last 10 years roughly. But it's taken tough right hand turn in the last few months and gotten different prognosis ranging from you know, a couple years to maybe five at most. So trying to figure out what should my focus financially be on whether making the here now as enjoyable as we can versus trying to make sure we're still saving for the future of my son and I. Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry. It's tough. How old are you guys?

[Jade Washall]

38, 37. Got a three year old son at home. We've been together for almost 20 years now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Well the turn of events, the prognosis change would change my strategy I think. Okay, you're saying they've put her on a clock and it's a shorter one.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, we had some new re diagnosis kind of progression of disease.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Well what we teach folks to do is you're not working the baby steps, you're fighting cancer. So what I would do if I were in your shoes, what do you make?

[Jade Washall]

Together we're just over 250. So I'm making about 130 or so myself.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would just Pile cash as high as I can pile it and do nothing else. I mean, I would do that with the same intensity that I would have getting out of debt or something if you were in a more normal situation. And so. And when we're piling the cash as high as we can pile it, I've got two things I want to. Three things I want to accomplish with that pile of cash. One is obviously any kind of care or trials or anything that you need to write checks for, you write them. Right. And so we'll take care of her. In other words, that's the first goal of the pile of cash. The second goal would be to do some things to make memories and, you know, the trip you want to do or the thing you need to purchase to make things more comfortable around there. Right now, the thing you've got to be careful with on that one is that you don't go out of control with that because in the name of that, people do some really stupid things. Like, I don't want to hear later that you spent $200,000 on some trip. That's not what I'm talking about. Okay. But I am talking about, okay, there's some things that if we were just. If everybody was healthy and we were leaning in getting out of debt, we wouldn't be doing this thing. But we're going to do it in this case instead, whatever this thing is, but reasonable dollar amounts and not getting sucked into in the name of we have a short clock we're going to do. We can get away with anything. Because you can't. Because you got to live with it later. Right?

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So anyway, do some things like that that are good and strategic wise things, do anything for her to take care of her, fight cancer, do some things for the family. And then the third thing is you're piling up cash for someday. What day? I don't know that this is behind you. You just take that money and push play on the baby steps and you throw it at the debt and you go after the debt then. And you go, you know, you go work your baby steps when you're the other side of this, she's healed and she's here, or she's healed and she's in heaven. I don't know which one it is, but either way, one of those two, and this is in your rear view mirror, so to speak. And then you start, you know, executing a good financial plan at that point. But right now we're just going to stack cash to fight cancer, have a good life, and Any cash that's left over in that stack is not wasted because we'll be able to use it to start our. The new version of our journey later. Does that all sound fair?

[Jade Washall]

That does, yeah. We've been. I mean, up to this point, we've made a pretty good progress, I'd say, financially with everything and have been living fairly frugally. It's just a matter of.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't care if. I don't care if you save 200 grand is what I'm saying. Just pile it up. There's no downside to that. And then if you want to fly to Paris and do a clinical of some kind, fine. Book a first class ticket and let's go do a clinical trial in Paris. I don't care. I'm making that up. I have no idea. But I mean, you know, but the. I've certainly got friends that have fought cancer situations and found it very handy to have a pile of cash while they were doing it.

[Jade Washall]

Mm.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what I'm saying.

[John Deloney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. And I'm so sorry, Chris, that for you guys. So sorry. How old is your. Is your baby.

[Jade Washall]

Three years old.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Wow.

[Jade Washall]

So he. It's hard for him to grasp other than just mommy sick.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So she's down right now then?

[Jade Washall]

Well, we just started new treatment on last Saturday, so it's in its kind of wait and see how things react, but she's going to be stepping away from work after the new year and kind of play it by ear from there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And then no treatment, just a beefed up chemo or what.

[Jade Washall]

It's kind of the next new thing on the line. It's kind of attack things from a different angle and see if we can halt progress again and hold it as long as we can. Just new side effects that are unknown, how she'll react at this point.

[John Deloney]

Tough stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

The cure is brutal sometimes, Chris, I'm sorry, but. Yeah, I really wouldn't focus on any financial goals other than just being wise with the cash flow so that we're able to stack cash to those three goals I talked about. Okay.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just. Just give. You. Give yourself a lot of grace, a lot of room and live this out and, you know, lean into it. Fight cancer with everything, every fiber of your being, and that includes the fibers of the dollar bills coming out of your wallet. Same thing.

[John Deloney]

Wow, that's tough stuff. There are times, though, I mean, it's good to reiterate there are things that pop up in life that supersede what you're trying to do financially.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You know, you need to. You're in the middle of a storm, you push pause.

[John Deloney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't work the baby steps in the storm.

[Jade Washall]

Storm.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whatever the storm is. I mean, you lose your job and, well, you can't. You don't have the income to fight it. You know, you don't. You. Somebody's ill like this, you don't have. You know, you've got to stop and focus on that. There's a tragedy of some kind or another. You have to stop for a minute. You do, and get your. Get your bearings, get your feet back on the ground and then decide from there what the next steps are and where you go. That's not a. That's not a baby step. It's a. Just push pause and walk away.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you know, use the resources that you have coming in your income to, you know, to navigate the storm, to be ready and to push your way all the way through it. So. Yeah, that's a. That's a big deal. Chris, I'm so sorry. That's tough. Very tough. We'll be praying for you, brother. And for her, obviously. Very, very cool. Open phones here at Triple 882-55-5225. I co signed with a girlfriend of 6 years on a car. Oh. Now we've been broken up for two years. Oh. And she's been late on multiple payments. Oh. She is not eligible for refinancing because of her credit. Oh. We going to coffee, baby doll. You selling your car? Car? You don't. I'm gonna sue you because you're destroying my credit.

[John Deloney]

Basically, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

See, you made a mistake. You signed with your ex boyfriend on your car and now you can't pay the car. So now you're selling it. People do not buy crap with people you are not married to. Hello?

[John Deloney]

I know. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. This is the Ramsey show. Are you determined to get out of.

[John Deloney]

Debt and build wealth this new year?

[Dave Ramsey]

Then don't leave out an important step.

[John Deloney]

Which is having the right insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't make the mistake of thinking you can get by with minimal coverage or.

[John Deloney]

No coverage at all.

[Jade Washall]

Because when Murphy comes knocking, and he.

[John Deloney]

Will, you'll start backsliding further into debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you don't have the money to.

[John Deloney]

Pay for it and if you don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have the right insurance.

[John Deloney]

So take our insurance coverage checkup.

[Dave Ramsey]

We make it easy with a free.

[John Deloney]

Tool that helps you find out if you have all of your bases covered. To check it out, go to ramseysolutions.com checkup. That's ramseysolutions.com checkup.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you want to hear the next segment of the Ramsey show after this one's over, you'll do that on the Ramsey Network app. That's the only place you can hear it except for a few talk radio stations here or there. So in the Ramsey Network app you can download for free. And it not only gives you lots of access, access to portions of this show and other shows that don't necessarily make the air. So you get a, you know, kind of a behind the scenes look. You can search the show for certain topics and find callers calling in about certain topics. That's pretty cool. And you can also send us a an email.

[John Deloney]

Ah, question. All right, today's Ramsey Network app question is from Davey. He says, I'm wondering why baby step one isn't start your first budget and giving every dollar a name. Then baby step two would be save your thousand dollar emergency fund and so on. Since you always emphasize budgeting first, why isn't that number one? I don't know why this is making me laugh. I mean, yeah, budgeting is a budget. You're right. Budgeting is the foundation of everything we teach. Matter of fact, some folks in here that I work with, we call it like baby step zero or just kind of like there is that thought to it. It is the foundation. But I mean, listen, the reason it's not like that is because it's not like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's the reason it's not like that is it's not a financial milestone. It's a tool and a practice.

[John Deloney]

That's a good point.

[Dave Ramsey]

That hits a financial milestone. All the baby steps are financial milestones. So it's not a financial measure. It's the same reason insurance, you know, buy health insurance is not a baby step. It's not a financial milestone. It's something you need to do. Buy life insurance is not a baby step. It's something you need to do.

[John Deloney]

Do a will you do it the minute you find out about it?

[Dave Ramsey]

Will is not a baby step. It's a tool. It's an item, it's a practice, it's a habit. It's a thing you need to do that causes you to hit the financial milestones.

[John Deloney]

That's good.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's why it's not a baby step. And so all of those other things fall in the same category as the budget does. There are things you need to be doing. Living on less than you make is something you need to do, but it's not a baby step because it's not a financial milestone. Thousand dollars is a financial milestone. Getting all your debts paid off except your home. Baby step two is paying them off. Smallest to largest in that order. Using the debt snowball is a financial milestone. Finishing your emergency funds a financial milestone. 15% of your household income. Measurable amount of money going into retirement is a financial milestone. Addressing kids college needs in baby step five is a financial milestone. Six, paying off your house is a financial milestone. All of these are money things that we're measuring as we make progress on money. They're not the thing. Get a job, take extra jobs are not a financial milestone. But there are things you need to do to create, you know, create an income would be necessary.

[John Deloney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, in order to do these things. So I'll increase your income. You know, these are all tactical things you do to hit the milestones. That's why it's not and it's. I think the question was semi serious.

[John Deloney]

So you're not going to rewrite the baby steps, you're not going to re release them?

[Dave Ramsey]

Not today.

[John Deloney]

On Davey's plan, we're going to stay.

[Dave Ramsey]

With Dave, not Davey.

[John Deloney]

There you go.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what we're going to do. All right. Emmanuel is with us in Dallas, Texas. Hi Emanuel. What's up? Merry Christmas.

[Jade Washall]

Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. So the numbers, just to get through it quickly or efficiently, the numbers are 94, 000 in debt. 56k is from a car. The CarMax value would be 40 to 43k and I'm paying 1200 per month for that.

[John Deloney]

Oh, why?

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, so. Yeah, right. Exactly, exactly. So my story, it's kind of like a five year timeline. Straight out of college, I moved to California so I can continue my college relationship after working at home. The job I had was miserable and there just wasn't any growth in it. So I decided to just take the jump. I followed love and things were working out. I ended up becoming a mortgage loan officer. And so I made great money at a young age making like over 10k a month. But you know, that, that didn't last for a long time. The industry died because the rates crashed. After that I got into recruiting. Same thing. I made amazing money. I was making $50 an hour and I was sugar daddy. Everything was fine. But then the economy, you know, it crashed at mass layoffs again. And so now, you know, now I'm pretty much this. I've been doing everything. It's not a work ethic problem, it's things Just haven't really been swinging my way, but I've still been working and it's just kind of like a paycheck to paycheck situation.

[John Deloney]

Bought a $56,000 car.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your question?

[Jade Washall]

That. So, so that, that. No, no, that. That is a result of like me having to deal with like family dynamics and family issues. So through all of, through all of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wait a minute. I'm sorry. There are no family dynamics that require a $56,000 car. That's absolute bull crap.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, okay, so you, you couldn't.

[Dave Ramsey]

You had to impress somebody in the family. I mean, what kind of ridiculous family dynamic causes you to buy a $60,000 car you can't afford?

[Jade Washall]

Right, Exactly. So if I could explain. I'm dealing with like super difficult mother in law.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you married? Are you married?

[Jade Washall]

No, I'm. We're engaged.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, got it.

[John Deloney]

And she told you to buy the 56, 000 car?

[Jade Washall]

No, no, that was as a result of. That was just like. I. So I keep having to put my foot down with the mother in law because things just. It's kind of the situation like she does like things that are just like not acceptable.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, I'm so sorry. What the crap does this have to do with you owning a car? What's like, what's the car?

[Jade Washall]

I'm calling for like clarity, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but why does a mother in law have to do with you buying a car? I don't understand.

[Jade Washall]

It was a crazy. So I. All of this is happening while I. While I. While we are two under two. I have a daughter that's two years old and my son is two months.

[John Deloney]

Okay, so.

[Jade Washall]

So I got laid off.

[John Deloney]

You got laid off? You got two young kids and did. Was it your wife that wanted you to get the car and you felt pressured or your fiance?

[Jade Washall]

I. I got the car.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Jade Washall]

I told her I don't ever want to have to like rely on my mother in law because I've been living with them because my family lives.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not relying on your mother in law does not require a $56,000 car, honey.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, we gotta, we gotta re. We gotta reframe it. We gotta reframe what's in your mind because I think in your mind you thought somehow that was going to give you some sort of freedom. I don't know how, but maybe you were borrowing her vehicle. I don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you could get a $5,600 car.

[John Deloney]

Yes. You got to sell that car immediately.

[Dave Ramsey]

Freedom.

[John Deloney]

Don't sell it to carmax because they're not going to give you the best value. You need to do it private sale. So look it up. My guess is that you'll get pretty close to the 56 that you owe on it. You have to get out of this immediately. And it sounds like there's not the right boundaries between your fiance's mother and you. And so you and your fiance are going to have to deal with that. You've got two under two. So I heard you say that I think you were laid off for between jobs. So you've got to get a job very quickly. So your homework list is I sell the car private sale, I get a job, I draw boundaries with the people who are not my parents and even boundaries with this. She's not even your in law yet because you're not married. So you need to get married. So that's on your list.

[Dave Ramsey]

Number three. No, number four is get married this week. Weekend. Yeah, you got a bunch of this crap out of order. So. And then you can just look at mother in law and go I, you don't have a vote on my car. You don't get a vote for my car immediately. Yes.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And no one has a vote on your car. Your wife and, and she's not even your wife yet. So let's make it, make her your wife and then the two of you decide on cars. But a fifty six hundred dollar car will allow you to not borrow other people's car.

[John Deloney]

And you need to. And this is for anybody listening who feels discombobulated like my guy who was just on the phone. You gotta sit down and have a moment with yourself. Maybe you have a journal, maybe you just. You got you. If you don't sit and say what was my part in all of this? You won't change. If you're saying, well, it happened because we got two under two and it happened because I got laid off and it happened because grandma and it happened because my mother in law. You're never then you're never at fault and that means you never have to change. And that's not how life works. You're gonna have to sit down and go, okay, what did I do? I'm the one that said, yeah, I'll sign my name right here. That's the truth. You're the one who signed for the car so you're responsible for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I felt pressured and I made a stupid decision. Boom, there we go.

[John Deloney]

Easy. Done it. Easy does it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've done that. I've done that myself. We've all Done that. That also helps you to not react to pressure ever again.

[John Deloney]

That's right. You won't do it again if you take responsibility for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

My tolerance for people telling me what to do with my money is pretty low. Like zero Now. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Jade Washall]

What up? What up? It's Dr. John DeLoney from the Dr. John DeLoney show with some amazing news. The latest episode of United States of Anxiety is available right now exclusively on the Ramsey network app. This docu series follows real people from my show as they embark on a 90 day journey to transform their lives. And I personally walk alongside them every step of the way. Okay, now here's a sneak peek of what the new episode is all about. And don't forget to click the link in the show notes to download the app. What's up, Kelsey? So I've lived with crippling anxiety for as long as I can remember. How do I stop it from constantly coming up in different areas of my life? What does crippling anxiety mean? Paint me a picture of that. All right, so you ready to jump in? I'm ready to jump in. We're gonna check in with Kelsey. 30 days, 60 days, 90 days.

[John Deloney]

I cannot even function because I am just crying. My mom left us when I was 4.

[Jade Washall]

I truly felt like for a while I had no family. She's experiencing things that really hurt a long time ago. Tell me about this boy. He triggers me a lot.

[John Deloney]

Scared of losing Paul. Scared of doing the wrong thing. Scared of not being enough.

[Jade Washall]

It just feels like it would be exhausting to be Kelsey. It is. Whenever somebody's playing whack a molecule with their anxiety, when it just keeps moving, that tells me the underlying system's not okay.

[John Deloney]

How do I get my inner child out of this relationship? Because I feel like she's running the show.

[Jade Washall]

One of two people that's supposed to never leave took off. I was this.

[John Deloney]

I was this burden.

[Jade Washall]

You burdened. That's right. To the one person who should carry it. All of it. Did you ever tell that little girl that it wasn't her fault? I don't know what to do. You either have to choose to let this guy love you, or you gotta choose to let this guy go.